Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Nefertiti on August 15, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
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Court to rule on inclusion of Kenyatta’s statue in new currency on Sep 27
Today 5:13 pm (3 hours ago)
(https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/files/2019/08/KENYATTA-KICC-STATUE.jpg)(https://3dwnh01icn0h133s00sokwo1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kenyatta1.png)
https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2019/08/court-to-rule-on-inclusion-of-kenyattas-statue-in-new-currency-on-sep-27/
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Patrick Njoroge screwed up. It's obviously unconstitutional. The letter and intent of the constitution win. Kenyatta image was in the old constitution and we put that particular article to remove him. And CBK went round & took a picture of his likeliness in KICC.
Hiyo kitu watoe - and print new currency - without any image of someone - preferably just put natural features in it or do public participation - let kenyans give ideas on what their currency ought to look like.
1,0000 weka NGIRI - warthog :D - that is what we already associate it with.
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They will conclude that the statue is disproportionately larger than the main feature;KICC but part of this is due to camera angles bla bla. They will vote to keep it. They know Uhunye will be long gone by the time he ‘revisits’ this ‘attrocity’ but they just can’t tell if he will be holding an active role in government. In short, they will rule in line with their careers as opposed to the reality that Uhunye snuck his dad into the notes
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I am with you both but...
1. A statue is not a portrait - the letter done
2. Jomo Kenyatta is the Founding Father of the nation Kenya. There are precedents all over the world where the "founding fathers" and other patriots are mummified on the currencies, postal stamps, etc. The US, the UK, France, etc - George Washington, Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle - these historical figures are presently on their national currencies. The spirit done.
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I know our resident 'pundit' believes Koitalel is the founding father because he braved the 1st Battalion or came before Vasco da Gama. Ruto can put Koitalel marble grave on 2k notes when he becomes president - and AG Murkomen can argue it bad camera angle on Nandi Hill... if wishes were horses :)
Seriously I don't know about Jomo but folks say Luanda Magere, Mekatilili wa Menza, Wanguû wa Makeri the feminist - and of course Koitalel Samoei - should grace the currency. Not ugly warthog please - respect Kenya.
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I'm with Pundit on this. We deliberately disallowed the images of presidents on our currencies knowing all the precedents that exist everywhere. Many things exist that symbolize the nation that can be used; Our 5 big mountains, the Rift, Our lakes, our map, even KICC. Uhuru is a narcissist for insisting on something so petty, even though it won't be allowed eventually, only delayed. When he's out of power, no one will allow that image to remain and the courts won't be scared of him anymore, so he's only delaying the inevitable..
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I am with you both but...
1. A statue is not a portrait - the letter done
2. Jomo Kenyatta is the Founding Father of the nation Kenya. There are precedents all over the world where the "founding fathers" and other patriots are mummified on the currencies, postal stamps, etc. The US, the UK, France, etc - George Washington, Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle - these historical figures are presently on their national currencies. The spirit done.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
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Exactly. It was no brainer. Mama Ngina, Uhuru and CBK went round this by looking for a Kenyatta stone carving - that is still a Kenyatta portrait. The letter and spirit of the constitution is we do not WANT any human face - carving or printed image - on our currency.
That Kenyatta portrait is more prominent than KICC - which is in the background.
Let them get another angle of KICC without Kenyatta image in it.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
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They are making a mockery of the constitution as usual. This is what they do all the time with every other constitutional provision they do not like except this one is pictorial and therefore most people can clearly see unlike chapter six and others where they kill the spirit of the law by splitting hairs with the letter of the law.
Exactly. It was no brainer. Mama Ngina, Uhuru and CBK went round this by looking for a Kenyatta stone carving - that is still a Kenyatta portrait. The letter and spirit of the constitution is we do not WANT any human face - carving or printed image - on our currency.
That Kenyatta portrait is more prominent than KICC - which is in the background.
Let them get another angle of KICC without Kenyatta image in it.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
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I am with you both but...
1. A statue is not a portrait - the letter done
2. Jomo Kenyatta is the Founding Father of the nation Kenya. There are precedents all over the world where the "founding fathers" and other patriots are mummified on the currencies, postal stamps, etc. The US, the UK, France, etc - George Washington, Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle - these historical figures are presently on their national currencies. The spirit done.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
Let me be clear - I oppose the inclusion of Jomo on the currency in any form.
Now, to the objective argument - the letter of the law is splitting of hairs quite fundamentally. So yes Trump's statue is not Trump's portrait. The AG actually argued to that.
About the spirit, it is easy to see how a "founding father" is a national symbol - the portrait itself is in fact witness for the CBK and the state. So you see Omtata the litigant is helping the respondent. 8)
Then the courts are fond of quoting precedents particularly from the Commonwealth; - well, the patron - UK - has portraits of dead monarchs all over her currency.
Then again we recently in 2010 went pure presidential and borrowed heavily from the US model; - the US has her founding fathers and various heroes on her currency.
@Kadame - I was hoping to hear your legal argument? Obviously noone here wants Jomo on the portrait but the court will use law and arguments not subjective feelings.
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And surely we can stop the escapist "judges will be afraid for their lives or career". That's negativism and defeatist [sic]. The court will rule by law, evidence, precedent and arguments.
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Robina stick to building games or whatever you do.You make tortured arguments that are honestly shockingly ignorant.I say this with 20 yrs online experience.
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Why are you feeling obligated to make the tortured argument for for the court unless you are supportive or sympathetic to that argument. Whether the courts succumb to that silly argument does not negate the argument that allowing the image of Kenyatta on the currency is an affront to the spirit of the law.
I am with you both but...
1. A statue is not a portrait - the letter done
2. Jomo Kenyatta is the Founding Father of the nation Kenya. There are precedents all over the world where the "founding fathers" and other patriots are mummified on the currencies, postal stamps, etc. The US, the UK, France, etc - George Washington, Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle - these historical figures are presently on their national currencies. The spirit done.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
Let me be clear - I oppose the inclusion of Jomo on the currency in any form.
Now, to the objective argument - the letter of the law is splitting of hairs quite fundamentally. So yes Trump's statue is not Trump's portrait. The AG actually argued to that.
About the spirit, it is easy to see how a "founding father" is a national symbol - the portrait itself is in fact witness for the CBK and the state. So you see Omtata the litigant is helping the respondent. 8)
Then the courts are fond of quoting precedents particularly from the Commonwealth; - well, the patron - UK - has portraits of dead monarchs all over her currency.
Then again we recently in 2010 went pure presidential and borrowed heavily from the US model; - the US has her founding fathers and various heroes on her currency.
@Kadame - I was hoping to hear your legal argument? Obviously noone here wants Jomo on the portrait but the court will use law and arguments not subjective feelings.
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@Kadame - I was hoping to hear your legal argument? Obviously noone here wants Jomo on the portrait but the court will use law and arguments not subjective feelings.
And surely we can stop the escapist "judges will be afraid for their lives or career". That's negativism and defeatist [sic]. The court will rule by law, evidence, precedent and arguments.
Disagreeing with your weak points is not resorting to subjective feelings, ok Robina? And you think the law is reasoned outside common sense? There's a legal standard used all the time called "what the reasonable man would do/think", and the constitution disallows using technicalities to skirt around substance, which is everything you're arguing here. We all know what the drafters intended and what they told Kenyans as we voted for this constitution and that's part of the legal interpretation. Pretending our courts aren't influenced by the presidency is a degree of naivety I will not bother trying to argue with.
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Right. Online experience is now legal experience. The beauty of legal debates is that the courts sooner pronounce themselves. Like in the Waititu case where your "online experience" and long tales about the sanctity of elected office have come to nought. Let's wait.
Robina stick to building games or whatever you do.You make tortured arguments that are honestly shockingly ignorant.I say this with 20 yrs online experience.
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@Kadame - I was hoping to hear your legal argument? Obviously noone here wants Jomo on the portrait but the court will use law and arguments not subjective feelings.
And surely we can stop the escapist "judges will be afraid for their lives or career". That's negativism and defeatist [sic]. The court will rule by law, evidence, precedent and arguments.
Disagreeing with your weak points is not resorting to subjective feelings, ok Robina? And you think the law is reasoned outside common sense? There's a legal standard used all the time called "what the reasonable man would do/think", and the constitution disallows using technicalities to skirt around substance, which is everything you're arguing here. We all know what the drafters intended and what they told Kenyans as we voted for this constitution and that's part of the legal interpretation. Pretending our courts aren't influenced by the presidency is a degree of naivety I will not bother trying to argue with.
I stand corrected. What am getting is the law is both its letter and spirit. The fear of the presidency dig was meant for Pundit who calls it negativity. The learned justices will soon rule on this - if Omtata wins then you were right; if he loses then the judges were intimidated. I get you.
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Yes I have seen your type. Fish out of water. Struggling to make really tortured arguments. I don't think we have seen the last of Waitutu case. It's not even been heard at constitutional court as it should and by at least a 3 or 5 bench judge.
As for this currency case - it the most straightforward case - and CBK have violated the CONSTITUTION - and will have to re-print those currencies without any image of Kenyatta in there..
Right. Online experience is now legal experience. The beauty of legal debates is that the courts sooner pronounce themselves. Like in the Waititu case where your "online experience" and long tales about the sanctity of elected office have come to nought. Let's wait.
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So straightforward. And it's no a light matter because it made to the CONSTITUTION.
http://www.klrc.go.ke/index.php/constitution-of-kenya/153-chapter-twelve-public-finance/part-7-financial-officers-and-institutions/400-231-central-bank-of-kenya
Article 231
(4) Notes and coins issued by the Central Bank of Kenya may bear images that depict or symbolise Kenya or an aspect of Kenya but shall not bear the portrait of any individual.
What is a POTRAIT:
portrait
/?p??tr?t,?p??tre?t/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
a painting, drawing, photograph, or engraving of a person, especially one depicting only the face or head and shoulders.
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Yes I have seen your type. Fish out of water. Struggling to make really tortured arguments.
I disagree with ur assessment of Robina. She's actually super smart! She's just also the super practical type. To her a fuss over a picture on a currency is kinda silly, especially given we have old presidents on many currencies and the argument she's making *IS* indeed being made by the GOK lawyers. Our Robina is interested in bread n butter issues. These ones seem like emotional or trivial things. I disagree of course, but it's not the stance of a silly person.
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Pundit is in trouble with my fishing him out of the pond - his ideological echo chamber - about Jubilee and Ruto's voodoo growth, white elephants, trains in the wrong places and weetabix factories. But seriously it's not that this issue is "beneath me" - that's our Pundit and his hubris - I actually see the state winning this one. Good chance of that. If it were a cut&dry no-brainer as some suppose the justices would not be touring the site.
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I can never be in trouble with someone like you whose punditry - political, economic, legal - is way below bar. I have long online track record that speaks for itself. You saw it last election - and you'll see it soon. The problem you think everything revolves around Ruto or Raila or Uhuru. You just have a weak fickle mind.
Learn to be objective.
As for this straight forward case..this one is open and shut case. The prominence of Jomo Kenyatta portrait (a carving) on every one of our notes is an attempt by Uhuru & CBK to continue with status quo - an expensive illegality. Remember we also renamed with Kenyatta day - to MASHUJAA day in the same katiba.
Or who do you think that article that forbade any portrait on notes was targeted on 2010? Rv Pundit or any random person had not made to the notes.
The constitution and Kenyans that you need to respect do not want any idolization of anybody.
Pundit is in trouble with my fishing him out of the pond - his ideological echo chamber - about Jubilee and Ruto's voodoo growth, white elephants, trains in the wrong places and weetabix factories. But seriously it's not that this issue is "beneath me" - that's our Pundit and his hubris - I actually see the state winning this one. Good chance of that. If it were a cut&dry no-brainer as some suppose the justices would not be touring the site.
[/quote
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99% of mt. Kenyans want Kenyatta portrait on all denomination.
We should probably devolve currency and let kenyatta currency circulate in mt.kenya.
Other counties can also choose what they like.
This is the good thing about devolution
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They voted with 99% for the new constitution. There are things that cannot work in devoluiton. Maybe you need mt kenya need to secede and form a lesoth or swaziland like country in Kenya.
99% of mt. Kenyans want Kenyatta portrait on all denomination.
We should probably devolve currency and let kenyatta currency circulate in mt.kenya.
Other counties can also choose what they like.
This is the good thing about devolution
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Arap Pundit - Mashujaa Day was so named by Moi in his sunset days. He at the same time scrapped Moi Day. Katiba 2010 - a whole 8 years later - was after the fact. Get your facts straight.
This case is as "open and shut" as the Waititu case - we are still waiting for some bench or Appeal to save you. There is nothing brilliant or special about your argument.
Objective :) - this is comical coming from the self-declared "dispassionate pundit" - with huge blinkers worse than the proverbial elephant in the room. An objective spectator with a horse... you're more of a cheerleader. Your gigantic blinkers are the elephant on this board :)
The AG and GoK lawyers have made my argument in court - I also point out precedents of Commonwealth practice of currency.. What exactly do you consider objectives? You of course agree with the tantrums-prone and incidental Omtata - an activist and attention seeker - after you converted on the Road to Damascus.
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Did anyone else notice the terrible metamorphosis? Ugly as the last scene in The Body Snatchers. At last, our dear truly the legally promiscuous, impunity-loving, long-standing Machiavellian RV Pundit has been turned! Once he came face to face with the abuse of state power and the reality of victimhood. With his unscrupulous hero on the receiving rear, he has been cajoled, he has been jagulated - nay, he has been reprogrammed - into a rights activist. :) Although the 4th grade grammar and half-baked logic are unmistakable - it took me a while to decide his account had not been hacked by Kichwa or bitmask.
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I am with you both but...
1. A statue is not a portrait - the letter done
2. Jomo Kenyatta is the Founding Father of the nation Kenya. There are precedents all over the world where the "founding fathers" and other patriots are mummified on the currencies, postal stamps, etc. The US, the UK, France, etc - George Washington, Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle - these historical figures are presently on their national currencies. The spirit done.
Splitting hairs
An image of a life sized statue is a portrait, worse is the image is readily identified as Jomo’s. Would you start arguing that this is no trump’s Portrait because it is an image of his statue and not Trump himself?
The architects of the katiba were well woke to the fact that our notes already had men and since they couldn’t decide who among them was important they voted to have none
Let me be clear - I oppose the inclusion of Jomo on the currency in any form.
Now, to the objective argument - the letter of the law is splitting of hairs quite fundamentally. So yes Trump's statue is not Trump's portrait. The AG actually argued to that.
About the spirit, it is easy to see how a "founding father" is a national symbol - the portrait itself is in fact witness for the CBK and the state. So you see Omtata the litigant is helping the respondent. 8)
Then the courts are fond of quoting precedents particularly from the Commonwealth; - well, the patron - UK - has portraits of dead monarchs all over her currency.
Then again we recently in 2010 went pure presidential and borrowed heavily from the US model; - the US has her founding fathers and various heroes on her currency.
@Kadame - I was hoping to hear your legal argument? Obviously noone here wants Jomo on the portrait but the court will use law and arguments not subjective feelings.
You don’t get it.
Why were the drafters so particular about a no portrait WITHOUT exception? Ndii was involved in this bit about CBK so he knows. They couldn’t agree who was more important and they felt we had one too many faces; three with potentially future others so they concluded none would be there. So stop trying to explain the import of ‘founding fathers’ . We are long past that. The question is whether there is a portrait or not
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The AG and GoK lawyers have made my argument in court - I also point out precedents of Commonwealth practice of currency.. What exactly do you consider objectives? You of course agree with the tantrums-prone and incidental Omtata - an activist and attention seeker - after you converted on the Road to Damascus.
Ms Robina,
From your article.
CBK lawyer Ochieng Oduol argued that the distance between the statue and tower doesn’t matter because a photo depends on where one was standing when it was being taken.
Oduol said the image portrayed in the bank notes is a statue and not a portrait as the petitioner puts it.
He argued the two can’t be separated as they stand on the same parcel of land.
“The two features can’t be separated since they tell a story about ten years of independence,” Oduol claimed.
I can’t see your arguments in court but I was not following. The first argument that notes don’t bear a statute is silly. When Omtata says the notes have the statue he means they have the image of the statue. Would CBK lawyers argue that there is no KICC as well?
The second one is equally silly; nobody forces CBK to use KICC,and if using it breaches provisions of the katiba then it shouldn’t be used. If the statue can’t be separated from KICC then KICC is left out, but we know there are many angles one could capture KICC without shoving Jomo in our face.
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Arap Pundit - Mashujaa Day was so named by Moi in his sunset days. He at the same time scrapped Moi Day. Katiba 2010 - a whole 8 years later - was after the fact. Get your facts straight.
This case is as "open and shut" as the Waititu case - we are still waiting for some bench or Appeal to save you. There is nothing brilliant or special about your argument.
Objective :) - this is comical coming from the self-declared "dispassionate pundit" - with huge blinkers worse than the proverbial elephant in the room. An objective spectator with a horse... you're more of a cheerleader. Your gigantic blinkers are the elephant on this board :)
The AG and GoK lawyers have made my argument in court - I also point out precedents of Commonwealth practice of currency.. What exactly do you consider objectives? You of course agree with the tantrums-prone and incidental Omtata - an activist and attention seeker - after you converted on the Road to Damascus.
Moi changed Kenyatta day to mashujaa day in you idiotic mind https://www.nation.co.ke › news
Kenyans to celebrate first Mashujaa day - Daily Nation
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Did anyone else notice the terrible metamorphosis? Ugly as the last scene in The Body Snatchers. At last, our dear truly the legally promiscuous, impunity-loving, long-standing Machiavellian RV Pundit has been turned! Once he came face to face with the abuse of state power and the reality of victimhood. With his unscrupulous hero on the receiving rear, he has been cajoled, he has been jagulated - nay, he has been reprogrammed - into a rights activist. :) Although the 4th grade grammar and half-baked logic are unmistakable - it took me a while to decide his account had not been hacked by Kichwa or bitmask.
You clearly don't know me.I can support a political leader but I don't support corruption or impunity or human rights abuses.I don't delete my threads.They are ten thousands of them here, at nipate.com and rcbowen.If I opine that Trump will win POTUS it doesn't mean I approve his brazen racism.If I support and vote for Sonko it doesn't I support some of his buffoonery but I know he cares enough to deliver compared to kidero and has ability to fix commonsensical issue like he has done.Ask Nairobean who is better btw the two.I support Ruto because as flawed as he is..he is our Meles Zenawi or Museveni or Kagame...highly effective leaders who get shit done.Those guys are ruthless killers just as Ruto is a ruthless thief..but a thief who get stuff done is better than a useless thief like Raila who cannot even build a pit latrine
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You started well but I guess your true colors came-out in the end. What has Ruto done on his own? Nothing. He needs to put together, maintain a tribally diversified political outfit and go against a powerful government with that coalition intact and a threat at beating the government before he can even compare himself to Raila. Other than stealing a lot of money because Ouru let him, there is nothing Ruto has done without the cover of government that he can show-case other than the crap he has built in your tribal heads. Very sad.
Did anyone else notice the terrible metamorphosis? Ugly as the last scene in The Body Snatchers. At last, our dear truly the legally promiscuous, impunity-loving, long-standing Machiavellian RV Pundit has been turned! Once he came face to face with the abuse of state power and the reality of victimhood. With his unscrupulous hero on the receiving rear, he has been cajoled, he has been jagulated - nay, he has been reprogrammed - into a rights activist. :) Although the 4th grade grammar and half-baked logic are unmistakable - it took me a while to decide his account had not been hacked by Kichwa or bitmask.
You clearly don't know me.I can support a political leader but I don't support corruption or impunity or human rights abuses.I don't delete my threads.They are ten thousands of them here, at nipate.com and rcbowen.If I opine that Trump will win POTUS it doesn't mean I approve his brazen racism.If I support and vote for Sonko it doesn't I support some of his buffoonery but I know he cares enough to deliver compared to kidero and has ability to fix commonsensical issue like he has done.Ask Nairobean who is better btw the two.I support Ruto because as flawed as he is..he is our Meles Zenawi or Museveni or Kagame...highly effective leaders who get shit done.Those guys are ruthless killers just as Ruto is a ruthless thief..but a thief who get stuff done is better than a useless thief like Raila who cannot even build a pit latrine
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Kichwa, Raila record of development starting from Kibra is nearly zero.Okoth Ken who replaced him was celebrated for doing basic stuff Raila never did.For Kibra just like Luo's are mere political tools in Raila armour.Kibra just urban demonstration unit for Raila.Luo Nyanza is a funeral ground.Ruto record right from Eldoret North to the parties to ministries to co- presidencies is exemplary.That is why the 53 yr old is giving all these old rich dynasties sleepless nights
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Kichwa, Raila record of development starting from Kibra is nearly zero.Okoth Ken who replaced him was celebrated for doing basic stuff Raila never did.For Kibra just like Luo's are mere political tools in Raila armour.Kibra just urban demonstration unit for Raila.Luo Nyanza is a funeral ground.Ruto record right from Eldoret North to the parties to ministries to co- presidencies is exemplary.That is why the 53 yr old is giving all these old rich dynasties sleepless nights
Musical chairs. Besides that Ruto's miracles or vision are imaginary, no performance can beat the downside of the insidious graft Ruto champions. Raila or Uhuru graft is mere cancer - Ruto graft is analogous to ebola or anthrax - where he teach the impressionable youth it is OK to loot and invest in heaven. So shameless. Yet he is a mere VP - now imagine Ruto's Kenya? - where you and patel see African Tiger or Canaan the rest of Nipate see Sodom & Gomorrah under Ruto. We beat this graft-vs-performance horse to death countlessly already - the scale tipped against your man every time. We can redux if you prefer.
Raila of course was behind the infrastructure savvy we credit Kibaki - starting with the bypasses - as Roads & Public Works minister. Ruto in his ingenuous attempt to copy Raila and Kibaki - has built the loss-minting SGR to nowhere.
Politically Raila without GoK has strung first ODM then NASA together. Solid political jaggernauts. What has Ruto done? - 2 seconds bila Moi Kanu was dead. The pastoralist URP gone. His Jogoo 2.0 Party broke into civil war barely a year after formation - Sep 2016 to Mar 2018 - 1yr+ is the longest Ruto has ever managed to hold onto a non-Kalenjin coalition. 8) 8) As at now it is not clear what Ruto 2022 party is. He needs to attempt a mere PG first - before talking party elections or primaries. Jubilee would need GSU or Recce to maintain the peace at Pangani HQ or SH or Karen - in case all hell break loose - we are used to MCA drama :) :D
In short, Ruto got nothing on Babu.
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Pundit - Ruto's laughable "leadership" of the mish-mash Jogoo Party - old lame Kibaki did better with PNU. Ukistaajabu ya MCA utaona ya Jubilee.
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Robina, yes Ruto is so overrated,that despite being born into poverty , graduated with first class honours at uon and was subsequently awarded MSc scholarship, started AMACO from his dorm room, became strong KANU youth leader in mid 20s,ousted Moi family Chesire from Eldoret North in 30s, fought for KANU reforms then and registered UDM with Kirwa before being made Ass Min and being allowed to sit in cabinet, overtakes Biwott & Saitoti to put Uhuru as KANU candidate and became chief campaigner.Ruto was about 35yrs then.Became KANU sec general overplaying Gideon.Led orange rejection of Kilifi draft with Raila, dumped KANU and became ODM big 5 slated for PMship.Led ODM campaigns and post campaign to get half gov from a sitting GEMA president.Should I remind you Ruto was just about 40yrs then.Became the best minister of agriculture and higher education despite Raila jealousy and ICC.Goes on to gobble URP that had 72 legislators and became co-president if not the president when Uhuru was drunk.Beat ICC, does a PhD in science, steal gazillions of money, loses weight by shockingly machine by hitting the gym, runs 20kms marathon, when he is not doing 200 political meetings...I can go on and on...Ruto just about 53yrs.The man born to poverty has sacred the rest of political fields their only option is to gang up.Ruto has seen it all..this is a big joke.Just prepare for the inevitable.Ruto is a man of first.He is incredibly brilliant, incredibly driven and incredibly gifted.What is remaining for Ruto to get the ultimate prize is very very easy.Most people who hate Ruto are just envious of his terrific talent, abilities and drive.Then don't Ruto was born so driven he was selling chicken and cows in his teenage years.I started taking keen interest on Ruto in 2001 and am least surprised by his meteoritic rise..he is nearest to a complete politician you can get.A Tom Mboya with the steel of Biwott, the brilliance of kibaki and the hardwork of Moi.As you wait for BBI.. Punguza Mzigo has checkmated that.Raila waited for ICC previously.meanwhile Ruto never sleeps... never get satisfied...remain as hungry and as ambitious as he was 40yrs when he was trying as many chicken instead of playing soccer like other kids
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I, Robina, am better than William Ruto. Straight As, PhD at 26, young and rich. The point - those personal 'achievements' are irrelevant to me and other taxpayers that he wants to rob blind to the skeleton. PhD at 53 like seriously - that proves he is Average Joe not clever. Waking up 4am - who cares? YK92 that siphon CBK and send inflation thru the roof - KSh torpedoed from 30 to 60 vs USD - due to this Ruto 'achievement' - This chapter please just redact from your Ruto praise & hymns book. It's an own goal. I need you to score a point - cause at this rate even Baktar Akasha was billionaire at 30.
Ruto's signature delivery is the SGR. it was URP manifesto item no 1. You have labored here to tell us how our great grandkids will reap massive benefits - in 2080 - so in meantime we must ignore the huge losses. As hk or vooke tell you - you can as well build SGR to every ward - 100B usd giga-Loan - and no industries will miraculously appear from thin air cause rail. What stop them from building factories in Mombasa or Malindi or Ukunda - right next to the harbor. There is no transit problem - sugarcane or flowers or sisal do not need rail.
Yes URP was a pastoralist coalition - 90% kalenjin, 30% matusa, 30% NEP. This come to <20% Kenya. Now Central is goone. With the Duales fleeing the vessel - Tanga Tanga will be a bony skeleton - smaller than URP - by the time they ship out to UGM. United Green Movement that Nixon Korir registered on March 9th 2018.
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Whoever gave you a phd should recall it. Anyway Jubilee 1.0 didn't just do SGR. They moved electricity connection from under 30s to now over 70s. Through innovative road annuity programme they added 10,000kms road...about as much as what all previous gov did. They grew the economy on average 5.6-6% --- higher than all previous regimes. I can go on and on....but they won 2017 by 54% margin.
As regard to current Ruto fortunes....maybe you're watching different news. Ruto controls an intact jubilee. Kieleweke crew remain a handful number of mps who are unpopular in the ground. Ruto has Jubile mostly intact and has raided ODM & other parties for support.
Anyway as always we will find out very soon.....and as always with your PHD in nonsense...you'll change the story like you did in 2017.
I, Robina, am better than William Ruto. Straight As, PhD at 26, young and rich. The point - those personal 'achievements' are irrelevant to me and other taxpayers that he wants to rob blind to the skeleton. PhD at 53 like seriously - that proves he is Average Joe not clever. Waking up 4am - who cares? YK92 that siphon CBK and send inflation thru the roof - KSh torpedoed from 30 to 60 vs USD - due to this Ruto 'achievement' - This chapter please just redact from your Ruto praise & hymns book. It's an own goal. I need you to score a point - cause at this rate even Baktar Akasha was billionaire at 30.
Ruto's signature delivery is the SGR. it was URP manifesto item no 1. You have labored here to tell us how our great grandkids will reap massive benefits - in 2080 - so in meantime we must ignore the huge losses. As hk or vooke tell you - you can as well build SGR to every ward - 100B usd giga-Loan - and no industries will miraculously appear from thin air cause rail. What stop them from building factories in Mombasa or Malindi or Ukunda - right next to the harbor. There is no transit problem - sugarcane or flowers or sisal do not need rail.
Yes URP was a pastoralist coalition - 90% kalenjin, 30% matusa, 30% NEP. This come to <20% Kenya. Now Central is goone. With the Duales fleeing the vessel - Tanga Tanga will be a bony skeleton - smaller than URP - by the time they ship out to UGM. United Green Movement that Nixon Korir registered on March 9th 2018.
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Sawa tutaona. Continue building junk websites and payrolls in COBOL. We are onto web 3.0 and 5G - it will take Safaricom 5yrs to catch up. Can you make a chatbot to speak Sheng? Or even Afrikaan. Instead of innovating to bridge such glaring hitec gaps in Kenya and Africa - you are here singing Baba Ruto the Great day and night - whenever you're sober enough to type. I told you that's Stockholm syndrome. Bure kabisa.
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Oops :)
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Oops :)
Relax until the case has been exhausted
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Oops :)
Relax until the case has been exhausted
OK. 2-3 ruling. Noone abstained.
The Judges said KICC was a key national monument which was gazetted in July 2013 and the image was considered and approved by the Cabinet.
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Inclusion-of-Mzee-Kenyatta-image/1950946-5289642-u8jjjgz/index.html
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This an open n shut case that will be overthrown by higher courts.Kenya do not want any image or likiness of anyone in their currency worst former presidents.What stop CBK looking for Ruto stone carving in 2022 and print that.No hero worship.These kind of symbolism matters.
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Does the Jomo statue pass the bar of national symbol? that's the question.
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This an open n shut case that will be overthrown by higher courts.Kenya do not want any image or likiness of anyone in their currency worst former presidents.What stop CBK looking for Ruto stone carving in 2022 and print that.No hero worship.These kind of symbolism matters.
Ruto will never be president. We will have Jaramogi statue in 2023.
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Does the Jomo statue pass the bar of national symbol? that's the question.
Wrong. It’s whether Jomo is a portrait and it is a portrait
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Does the Jomo statue pass the bar of national symbol? that's the question.
Wrong. It’s whether Jomo is a portrait and it is a portrait
It was 2-3 pastor... the learned justices disagreed with you. They said Jomo statue is gazetted as part of KICC which is a national monument. I saw you claim they were intimidated :)
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Does the Jomo statue pass the bar of national symbol? that's the question.
Wrong. It’s whether Jomo is a portrait and it is a portrait
It was 2-3 pastor... the learned justices disagreed with you. They said Jomo statue is gazetted as part of KICC which is a national monument. I saw you claim they were intimidated :)
I don't know whether that decision is final and I'd need to go through their arguments but I'm saying when we said no portraits we meant no portraits whether they are on national monuments or not.
It's a terrible decision and they will pay for it in their careers
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Once you gazette a statue as a national symbol - does it violate the clause on no image of any individual? You can't read one clause to the exclusion of others.
And why will the judges pay with their careers? - because they disagreed with Omtata? :o
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Jomo will be very far from the 1000 notes come 2025. even Moi lived to see his potrait being removed from the Kenyan currency. Jomo will follow his path sooner than we think.
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The constitution is clear. Images or portrait of anyone in our currency is disallowed. Two judges basically refused to hear the case - terming it frivolous. That is strange. 1 judge disagreed that CBK had violated the law.
Once you gazette a statue as a national symbol - does it violate the clause on no image of any individual? You can't read one clause to the exclusion of others.
And why will the judges pay with their careers? - because they disagreed with Omtata? :o
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The constitution is clear. Images or portrait of anyone in our currency is disallowed. Two judges basically refused to hear the case - terming it frivolous. That is strange. 1 judge disagreed that CBK had violated the law.
Once you gazette a statue as a national symbol - does it violate the clause on no image of any individual? You can't read one clause to the exclusion of others.
And why will the judges pay with their careers? - because they disagreed with Omtata? :o
We're back to Moi era judiciary of technicality rulings and screw substance.
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Sorry guys I don't get it: wasn't the substanive case heard and determined? As in lawyers filed evidence, argued in court and the judges toured KICC. Then took a month to rule. Where's the technicality?
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This is beyond your paygrade. Grab yourself Law 101 course near you. The are many stages in a court case. The first is called jurisdiction. The court while hearing the case..have to determine if they should be hearing it in the first place. Out of the 5 - I think 2 - said - this is the frivolous case we shouldn't hear - that is already 2-NIl (This is what Dear Mama is calling a technicality - the same way OKOA is being dealt that card in County Assembly - you don't actually debate but coz it's time-barred - it's mean it was rejected). The remaining 3 proceeded to hear the case. I think 2 rightly read the constitution and found CBK had violated it. One agreed with CBK that potrait was part of KICC landmark.
Sorry guys I don't get it: wasn't the substanive case heard and determined? As in lawyers filed evidence, argued in court and the judges toured KICC. Then took a month to rule. Where's the technicality?
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Sorry guys I don't get it: wasn't the substanive case heard and determined? As in lawyers filed evidence, argued in court and the judges toured KICC. Then took a month to rule. Where's the technicality?
So you think if lawyers argue and evidence is tabled, somehow that magically prevents judges from disposing of cases from technical over substantive considerations? Do you think in Moi's days, those pro-gova rulings were made because lawyers failed to argue or evidence was somehow not tabled? You can easily discover for yourself what the distinction is. Right now, you seem to think ignoring substance means not following basic procedure or sthing.
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I almost get it Kadame. Some cases are dismissed before any hearing - something about merit. Such cases don't get a 3-judge bench and take a very short time. Is this a literal dismissal? Please avoid the conjecture about intimidation for a moment. I want to understand what legally happened.
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Pundit i didn't catch that. So out of initial 5 judges - 2 pulled out. Then 1 out the rest 3 ruled against Omtatata. The remainder 2 backed Omtata.
It says none of that in the news. Just that 2 of 3 judges dismissed the case. Feel free to school me.
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I almost get it Kadame. Some cases are dismissed before any hearing - something about merit. Such cases don't get a 3-judge bench and take a very short time. Is this a literal dismissal? Please avoid the conjecture about intimidation for a moment. I want to understand what legally happened.
Robina, you're still making it about 'not following basic procedure'. It's just how when a judge wants to rule a certain way apriori, he can do it by emphasizing a minor issue over a more important one, like a game of ducking. In this case, using the minor issue (a mere technicality) of the gazettement of an image as a national symbol to skirt around a substantive constitutional prohibition of such images. Playing redefinition games about what a 'portrait' is. It's nothing fancy. People do it all the time in support of their favourite ideologies. For some reason, lots of lay people assume judges are somehow immune to these human biases and games. Yet we have entire academic traditions studying precisely how judges find a way to justify decisions they already committed to.
The intimidation is not silly conjecture: it comes from how plainly obvious it is what these judges do, and I knew it the moment i heard about this case. That's not a very comfortable position to be in and I'm sure the moment Uhuru is gone, these very same courts will completely rubbish any idea that you can get away from constitutional requirements by gazetting the prohibited stuff (and thereby simply declaring them constitutional by that mere act). In other words, it's doing the law by exploiting any and all loopholes rather than committing to its substantive aims: Our courts were masters of this in Moi's era and so we put it in the constitution that it's illegal to ignore substance in favour of technicalities. Yet, here we are.