Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 19, 2019, 10:41:02 AM
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The effect of good-intentioned but not well thought out populism..."Magulification" of Tanzania.
Tanzania cooking economic figures....WB put them at 5.2% growth (lowest in East Africa bar Burundi) while they TZ claim to 7%.
Everything grinding to halt. FDIs have halved. Private-sector lending dropped from 20% to 4%. Exports dropped.
https://af.reuters.com/article/africaTech/idAFKCN1UD0U8-OZABS
Sound eerily like we got another Nyerere situation. He never stole a bob....died a pauper owning a house and a bicyle....but made everyone in TZ equally poor.
That is why I supports folks like Ruto/Kenyattas/Kibaki - they can skim the cream - but get lots of shit done. Moi made a mistake in 90s by allowing free for all looting in 92 and 96 at the prospect of losing power to GEMA.
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If there was corruption in TZ development would drop to 3%.
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Why are you equating Ruto to Kenyattas and Kibaki although he has never ruled Kenya for a day? Wait till after 2022 and then we can see if he lands at the helm.
At least you should have put Raila on that list. He has nusu mkate as PM. :D :D :D
That is why I supports folks like Ruto/Kenyattas/Kibaki - they can skim the cream - but get lots of shit done. Moi made a mistake in 90s by allowing free for all looting in 92 and 96 at the prospect of losing power to GEMA.
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One can say the same to UhuRuto regime only instead of GEMA you can replace it with Raila. The free looting under the two zoombies has made Moi's error like like a kindergarten.
That is why I supports folks like Ruto/Kenyattas/Kibaki - they can skim the cream - but get lots of shit done. Moi made a mistake in 90s by allowing free for all looting in 92 and 96 at the prospect of losing power to GEMA.
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Not true. Moi kind of looting you only see when a military or dictatorship regime is about to fall - and they raid central banks coffees - chart dollars, gold and such. Moi was that scared in 92 and 96 - and by 2002 - he was used to the drill.
One can say the same to UhuRuto regime only instead of GEMA you can replace it with Raila. The free looting under the two zoombies has made Moi's error like like a kindergarten.
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Pundit has long tales about Ruto - he confuses dreams with reality. From Ruto is visionary - cos SGR and the borrow-&-build "China model" - which we summarily debunked right here. Ruto is like Jomo or Kibaki - zero evidence - nope, he has never borne ultimate authority & responsibility for GoK. Ruto is trustworthy - this is the most laughable "fact" tossed here and about persistently. Dude has a looong trail of dirty tricks and cons he played on Reuben Chesire for Eldoret MP, Mutula Kilonzo for Kanu sec gen, Jubilee mlolongo, bla bla - a mile-long rapsheet of graft and all sins in the book. Once in a while we are gleefully told how he slices poor penniless "friends" who made the mistake to trust him - most recently some chap took KCB loan 500M at 300M "commission" :D If William Ruto is trustworthy even Lucifer deserves a chance.
Blinkers 101
Why are you equating Ruto to Kenyattas and Kibaki although he has never ruled Kenya for a day? Wait till after 2022 and then we can see if he lands at the helm.
At least you should have put Raila on that list. He has nusu mkate as PM. :D :D :D
That is why I supports folks like Ruto/Kenyattas/Kibaki - they can skim the cream - but get lots of shit done. Moi made a mistake in 90s by allowing free for all looting in 92 and 96 at the prospect of losing power to GEMA.
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Amazing we are back to basics. Corruption or integrity is not a metric of economic development - but a big cancer that decimates everything. It is well known infrastructure and the rule of law - particularly a stable judiciary - are the key ingredients in the development recipe. Right before capital, manpower and other resources. Unless you are ignorant you can see how corruption interferes with these inputs of development. I mean substandard infra all over, counterfeits and piracy, inefficient enforcement of contracts, fake degrees, titles and other docs.. The graft "tax" so obviously makes Pundit's assertions here bizarre.
Magufulication or minimizing corruption does not make the economic inputs wishable away in TZ. It just one important thing that must be dealt with. Even if you got sizable growth with lots of corruption - you still need to address the vice - same as other crimes - drugs, murder, etc. Does growth make us ignore HIV or cancer? Being rich or prosperous does not make me want to die from corrupt cops who let thru worn-out tanker. Or corrupt bordermen let in Al Shaabab. Or corrupt taxmen let in mercury sugar. Or corrupt IEBC officials cause PEV. Or corrupt foresters cause drought. Corruption is a bottomless abyss.
This is my main beef with Ruto - not just his fake genius - which just make him even with the rest of the Regular Joes. Like Moi made corruption free-for-all - stashing cash in the boot to give school kids - Ruto suffers from this same Kalenjin syndrome - of wantonly displaying his affluence and "blessings". Like Moi - Ruto is spreading the Gospel of Corruption to the masses - and this is very dangerous far beyond any miracles he has to offer. Not a Kibaki nor Jomo - more akin to corrupt, inept Moi on steroids.
Ruto is the Snake in the Garden of Kenya - poor Wanjiku is gullible Eve - corruption is the forbidden fruit. The way you see the Judases in parliament today - bribed in the loos, night allowance, anything for 30 pieces of silver - these are Moi's and Kibaki's generation that learnt from Goldenberg, Anglo Leasing, Triton, etc. Imagine a Ruto presidency - from what we see now as a mere VP. Kenya would be Sodom & Gomorrah under President William Ruto.
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Robina, that is some convoluted long diatribe. Magufuli is achieving the opposite...of what he intended.
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Robina, that is some convoluted long diatribe. Magufuli is achieving the opposite...of what he intended.
Yes - because he neglects the other inputs of growth. You obfuscate and conflate corruption with growth to sanctify Ruto. Magufuli should address the other economic factors simultaneously with corruption. You could point to many other countries that have prospered big from slaying graft - say China or South Korea - which of course would be narrow minded. Cause it just a single item.
To summarize my diatribe: First, Ruto does not have any midas touch for growth. Just voodoo figures which Wanjikü doesn't share. Second, even if he were an economic wizard, corruption would still need to be fought. Corruption is a deadly virus which destroy society whether rich or poor. View it as narcotics problem, or HIV, or murder. Do they fight these vices in Europe or US or Asian Tigers? Of course they do. Do they fight graft? In fact it's the quickest way to prison or worse. So save us the spin of obfuscating evil with progress - rich or poor corruption is still evil.
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We don't just reject Ruto for his moneybag syndrome - his is a more insidious variety - more like ebola or anthrax. He is a very poor example of a leader. Cause you pointed out Kibaki or Jomo - or even Uhuru or Babu - they kept it elite. Catch them dead claiming their bloodmoney is "blessings from God" right at the pulpit. Ruto does harambees and spill money fwaa exactly as Moi. Yet he is only VP.
So my dear Pundit, you can give your hero the holy sacrament - it would take the Pope to cleanse him. It too deeply ingrained in him to hope for anything different. As PORK no miracle would happen - he would be a worse version of Moi.
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Ruto is nothing without Ouru?
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Robina that some fear mongering.Ruto has been leading opinion polls of the next pork.His achievement right from his time as no, ass min, minister, party leadership and DPORK clearly demonstrates his leadership and management skills.
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Robina that some fear mongering.Ruto has been leading opinion polls of the next pork.His achievement right from his time as no, ass min, minister, party leadership and DPORK clearly demonstrates his leadership and management skills.
Right. And graft has caused countless atrocities in that same period. It is not merely an economic problem so that Ruto's imaginary thrift can absolve him. He could multiply the economy 10X and we'd still reject his sleazy pungent nature. The man is shamelessly building churches with bloodmoney - it baffles me you see no dark symbolism in this. I mean what are the youth picking from that?
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Blinkers kweli. If corruption was only an economic problem - they would not fight it in the west or rich countries. Instead they treat it like murder - cause it a deadly vice that spawn all kinds of problems. Very many crimes and problems are facilitated by corruption - terrorism, narcotics, prostitution, deforestation, name it. Corruption is the principal enabler of impunity - and we know injustice causes strife and instability - downward spiral from there.
Bwana Pundit yours is willful ignorance - else you would need help. As you can sense it's a mountain task to persuade us that graft is harmless. :D
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Robina, I focus on output, not input.I leave God to judge inner souls but I judge their achievements.All those ills you talk about can be measured and objectively debated.Corruption fear mongering will fall flat on its stomach like ICC in 2013.Kindly focus on what political leadership can provide...in Kenya basic infastructure, poverty fight and etc.Ruto is an excellent political leader.He ain't a saint.
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We also debated "outputs" before - where you attempted to box them as GDP or economy - which of course is only one metric of a nation's health. Stop conflating economics and graft. Why don't you equally conflate growth with AIDS or malaria? In TZ they are also busy fighting malaria yet the economy still plummet - how does that sound? Should they also stop fighting malaria?
Noone's asking Ruto to be a saint - despite his actual pretence to be one - we however say a firm No to his abetting and promoting graft. That is what the impressionable youth are getting from his "generosity". Only a retard doesn't know it's campaign using loot. While corruption is already insidious in Kenya and getting worse - am yet to see any miracle workers inspired by Ruto.
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Aids, malaria are down donge
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Robina, that is some convoluted long diatribe. Magufuli is achieving the opposite...of what he intended.
Yes - because he neglects the other inputs of growth. You obfuscate and conflate corruption with growth to sanctify Ruto. Magufuli should address the other economic factors simultaneously with corruption. You could point to many other countries that have prospered big from slaying graft - say China or South Korea - which of course would be narrow minded. Cause it just a single item.
Yup. TZ is not poor courtesy of less corruption. That is just ridiculous deification of the vice.
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GDP measures all sort of indicators from all sorts of sectors and for me it's the single most important measure of progress.It not possible to grow economically when graft is so rampant. Magufuli has failed...growth when he got PORT was around 7%...it down to 5%...and it's projected to get to 3% this year....that is classic definiton of a CATASTROPHE.
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GDP measures all sort of indicators from all sorts of sectors and for me it's the single most important measure of progress.It not possible to grow economically when graft is so rampant. Magufuli has failed...growth when he got PORT was around 7%...it down to 5%...and it's projected to get to 3% this year....that is classic definiton of a CATASTROPHE.
True GDP is a key metric. Magufuli needs to get his priorities right. Fight graft strategically by tightening laws and processes, etc. Not roadside declarations. However, the slaying graft now while haphazard and poorly tactical will still pay off in future. Manageable graft still leaves room for growth. Insidious graft - at some level - becomes catastrophic where either the economy stalls - or there is growth with big inequality. Our contention is that Average Joe Ruto cannot redeem his zero ethics and poor role-modeling with imaginary genius. Our analysis shows there are a thousand and one problems caused by graft even when not as insidious as he is working so hard to make it. Let us have clean growth and a happy society free from all those self-inflicted maladies.
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Jubilee has grown the economy on average 6% - higher than Kibaki - and the stealing Ruto does is skimming of the cream - sort of taking the ceasar 10% - like GOD also does. That 10% is also called profit/consultancy/CRC.donation in the developed world. Generally, speaking having a few bureaucrats skimming the cream off the top to supplement their salaries is not a big deal for me or the economy. Ruto clearly not worth 2M kSHS HE GETS - when Bob & some private sector players make nearly 1B from salaries & stock option annually. You cannot expect the public sector to oversee trillion of shs - get paid peanuts - while you at Pablo Alto Silicon valley - easily earn 1M dollars annually. The economy start having issues - when bureaucrats go for a higher percentage - making it impossible to deliver anything - or to be delivered in such poor quality it's of no use. For reference, you can study the moi regime, where people would steal money meant for building roads and deliver no road. And worse such monies are also banked outside - capital flight.
Now Magufuli problem is fighting corruption through public lynching. The same way Raila wanted to wage anti-graft war. It best to let processes and systems deal with corruption. Magufuli has managed to scare his gov and civil servants so much nothing get's done. He has extended his war on private sector - and now the economy is in doldrums because of both private and public investment - have dried up.
True GDP is a key metric. Magufuli needs to get his priorities right. Fight graft strategically by tightening laws and processes, etc. Not roadside declarations. However, the slaying graft now while haphazard and poorly tactical will still pay off in future. Manageable graft still leaves room for growth. Insidious graft - at some level - becomes catastrophic where either the economy stalls - or there is growth with big inequality. Our contention is that Average Joe Ruto cannot redeem his zero ethics and poor role-modeling with imaginary genius. Our analysis shows there are a thousand and one problems caused by graft even when not as insidious as he is working so hard to make it. Let us have clean growth and a happy society free from all those self-inflicted maladies.
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Yes, Magufuli should tackle graft tactfully and strategically.
Please revise the Aukot bill that has you so excited. Public servants who want hefty wages should go into business or the corporate world. Noone stops Ruto from putting his great skills to use in his own enterprises. No again, great performance - real or imagined - does not redeem his greed and graft.
It's true I earn good money in America. Ruto should join me and stop fleecing poor Kenyans and promoting graft to be more insidious. They might make an issue of his long rap-sheet though.
Jubilee has grown the economy on average 6% - higher than Kibaki - and the stealing Ruto does is skimming of the cream - sort of taking the ceasar 10% - like GOD also does. That 10% is also called profit/consultancy/CRC.donation in the developed world. Generally, speaking having a few bureaucrats skimming the cream off the top to supplement their salaries is not a big deal for me or the economy. Ruto clearly not worth 2M kSHS HE GETS - when Bob & some private sector players make nearly 1B from salaries & stock option annually. You cannot expect the public sector to oversee trillion of shs - get paid peanuts - while you at Pablo Alto Silicon valley - easily earn 1M dollars annually. The economy start having issues - when bureaucrats go for a higher percentage - making it impossible to deliver anything - or to be delivered in such poor quality it's of no use. For reference, you can study the moi regime, where people would steal money meant for building roads and deliver no road. And worse such monies are also banked outside - capital flight.
Now Magufuli problem is fighting corruption through public lynching. The same way Raila wanted to wage anti-graft war. It best to let processes and systems deal with corruption. Magufuli has managed to scare his gov and civil servants so much nothing get's done. He has extended his war on private sector - and now the economy is in doldrums because of both private and public investment - have dried up.
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Jubilee growth is superficial; based on government spending which in turn is based on excessive borrowing ,which is not sustainable. To sustain it we have to keep on borrowing and right now we are doing so bad that not even Kung Fu will lend to us. If Kenya had TZ corruption levels then our growth would be a few integers higher