Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 11, 2019, 10:59:23 AM
-
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
-
Very silly idea. Mt Kenya in 2022 will have been at the helm of the country for 20 years. Now is when they want to compromise knowing SH is out of reach for one of their own. Best for Kenya is just clean and transparent election process. I insist on election process and not just election as the election is not a one day event.
We also need a strong opposition. The work of the opposition is not only to make noise, but to expose the wrong doing of a government and to make suggestions on how things can be done better. With everyone sitting in government we would be back in those days of Mzee Kenyatta and Arap Moi.
-
Yes, all these kind of silly suggestions is because they are facing exit from power; I think we just need official opposition leader paid - and even shadow cabinet also paid - so they can do opposition work of keeping gov in toes and getting paid for it. Opposition parties should also be funded. Basically, opposition to gov should recognized as vital for democracy and they should be paid for it - give the official opp leader motorcade, security and all the trappings of power - the same with his deputies - and shadow cabinet. Obviously, we also need to get some output from them.
But forming a coalition gov every time negates democracy - election will not be perfect but as long as they are generally free and fair - then we need to accept people will lose...it's not the end of the world...for the losers.
Very silly idea. Mt Kenya in 2022 will have been at the helm of the country for 20 years. Now is when they want to compromise knowing SH is out of reach for one of their own. Best for Kenya is just clean and transparent election process. I insist on election process and not just election as the election is not a one day event.
We also need a strong opposition. The work of the opposition is not only to make noise, but to expose the wrong doing of a government and to make suggestions on how things can be done better. With everyone sitting in government we would be back in those days of Mzee Kenyatta and Arap Moi.
-
Very silly idea. Mt Kenya in 2022 will have been at the helm of the country for 20 years. Now is when they want to compromise knowing SH is out of reach for one of their own. Best for Kenya is just clean and transparent election process. I insist on election process and not just election as the election is not a one day event.
We also need a strong opposition. The work of the opposition is not only to make noise, but to expose the wrong doing of a government and to make suggestions on how things can be done better. With everyone sitting in government we would be back in those days of Mzee Kenyatta and Arap Moi.
I've lost all hope for any kind of prestine process. Maybe in 50 years when our tribes will have began fading away. In any case, I don't see how Muthaura's suggestion is any worse that the 50-100 year planned swap between Kyuks and Kalenjins that we were promised. At least Muthaura's has the advantage of not formenting resentment and civil unrest.
-
Very silly idea. Mt Kenya in 2022 will have been at the helm of the country for 20 years. Now is when they want to compromise knowing SH is out of reach for one of their own. Best for Kenya is just clean and transparent election process. I insist on election process and not just election as the election is not a one day event.
We also need a strong opposition. The work of the opposition is not only to make noise, but to expose the wrong doing of a government and to make suggestions on how things can be done better. With everyone sitting in government we would be back in those days of Mzee Kenyatta and Arap Moi.
I agree. Also the least likely though. It hasn’t happened despite numerous attempts after 2002.
-
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
I thought this guy was dead. And here he shows up with harebrained ideas.
-
You are describing parliamentary - shadow cabinet, etc. Which is what we had before 1991, and even after until 2010. What we need is proper parliamentary where the Exec PM is a servant in Parliament answering questions every 2 or 3 days a week. Not a demigod full of pomposity like now.
The ceremonial crap - swearing in folks - give to 7yr queen. That way lazy or unaccountable or such people will not vie. Like you say yourself Uhuru wouldn't hack it. I think Kalonzo and Madvd too wouldn't. But for now anyone can be aloof PORK cause he's unaccountable.
Also, for clean electoral process, it's easier to man against rigging at the constituency - where we don't need French servers. You can literally sum up the poll centers in a constituency - making it hard to rig. Hii mambo ya server huko Nairobi - hopeless.
Yes, all these kind of silly suggestions is because they are facing exit from power; I think we just need official opposition leader paid - and even shadow cabinet also paid - so they can do opposition work of keeping gov in toes and getting paid for it. Opposition parties should also be funded. Basically, opposition to gov should recognized as vital for democracy and they should be paid for it - give the official opp leader motorcade, security and all the trappings of power - the same with his deputies - and shadow cabinet. Obviously, we also need to get some output from them.
But forming a coalition gov every time negates democracy - election will not be perfect but as long as they are generally free and fair - then we need to accept people will lose...it's not the end of the world...for the losers.
-
Very silly idea. Mt Kenya in 2022 will have been at the helm of the country for 20 years. Now is when they want to compromise knowing SH is out of reach for one of their own. Best for Kenya is just clean and transparent election process. I insist on election process and not just election as the election is not a one day event.
We also need a strong opposition. The work of the opposition is not only to make noise, but to expose the wrong doing of a government and to make suggestions on how things can be done better. With everyone sitting in government we would be back in those days of Mzee Kenyatta and Arap Moi.
I agree. Also the least likely though. It hasn’t happened despite numerous attempts after 2002.
With the level of corruption and dishonesty in Kenya - this is a pipedream.
-
Is this not the same Muthaura who was the architect of the 2007 election theft? He even has the odessity to speak on state affairs.
I agree. Also the least likely though. It hasn’t happened despite numerous attempts after 2002.
-
With the level of corruption and dishonesty in Kenya - this is a pipedream.
I agree but it is sometimes not bad to dream. Reality is painful enough.
I think we need another 50 years to restart our nation.
-
At least the dude is thinking out of the box. I think most of us are boxed into the western European and American models of democratic governments. We need to look at the past and find out what worked. For example, 2002 before the reneging of the Mou, then NARA, then handshake. Let us study those three periods of time in our history where a certain semblance of political stability and serenity was noticed throughout the country. Also let us look at the tumultuous times in the country and see what does not work, for example, "the reneging of the Mou", the stealing of elections in 2007, the Ouruto, kalenjin/kikuyu fraud aka fake "tyranny of numbers" powered by stealing of votes.
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
I thought this guy was dead. And here he shows up with harebrained ideas.
-
There is an interesting model in Malaysia - it's parliamentary with Exec PM - federal with provincial governors - the ceremonial president is a window dressing that rotates among the provinces.
At least the dude is thinking out of the box. I think most of us are boxed into the western European and American models of democratic governments. We need to look at the past and find out what worked. For example, 2002 before the reneging of the Mou, then NARA, then handshake. Let us study those three periods of time in our history where a certain semblance of political stability and serenity was noticed throughout the country. Also let us look at the tumultuous times in the country and see what does not work, for example, "the reneging of the Mou", the stealing of elections in 2007, the Ouruto, kalenjin/kikuyu fraud aka fake "tyranny of numbers" powered by stealing of votes.
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
I thought this guy was dead. And here he shows up with harebrained ideas.
-
Interesting stuff. By the way, what does "Opposition" mean in Kenya? Some people who supported Raila when they thought he might get into power are now Ruto's, based on who they think will win and their prospects for eating---the likes of Jumwa who suddenly switched from breathing out fire on Jubilee to declaring that the Hustler is "an idea whose time has come". Talk about fickle and feckless!
And Uhuru for once has sobered up and come up with a master stroke, a.ka. Handshake. Conning Raila into believing that he will get support for a run in 2022 essentially neuters the Opposition and allows Uhuru to rule without kelele mingi. What president would not love such a situation.
Muthaura's proposal actually make a great deal of sense when viewed in a historical context. He is basically refining the current con to match an earlier one that "worked" for them: Kibaki's "you are assured of something big".
-
Robina, I like that Malaysia but like I told you Uganda have PM nobody cares about.At end of the day there can only be one top dog.The rest have be loyal or fight.Trying to find an utopia system where nobody loses means nobody wins.The reality is we have Raila problem... somebody who wants to run n run...and doesn't want to lose.Once Raila retires we will be fine.
-
Actually we had this problem long before Babu - since independence. Matibas and Rubias gave Moi big headache. Isn't Jubilee a coalition of warlords? Exec PM with federal does it for me - the accountable UK type - without the fanfares and hero worship. Take the glory out of the job. Ruto can easily nick PM but he should be a people servant not a new god.
Robina, I like that Malaysia but like I told you Uganda have PM nobody cares about.At end of the day there can only be one top dog.The rest have be loyal or fight.Trying to find an utopia system where nobody loses means nobody wins.The reality is we have Raila problem... somebody who wants to run n run...and doesn't want to lose.Once Raila retires we will be fine.
-
A Crazy proposal it is!
We need to call out the Elephant in the room. If we don't, we all live to fight again!
The 2nd runner-up and below should never insist on being part formal Executive. This is an Exclusive Preserve of the Winning Candidate/Party. Co-opting 2nd Runner-up in any way shape or form is plain Ujinga. Are we revising elections 101?
Lastly, in as much as it is not politically correct to say, this messy idea is actually less about 2nd Runner up in general, and More about how to manage a Raila 2nd Runner-up! We are custom fitting the constitution for an individual...that's a bad precedence to set!
Rather than fool him with another "Nusu Mkate" idea, We need to encourage Raila that he has the potential to capture #1, and also encourage him and all, that the Official Opposition Leader positive is a very important executive position that shadows the govt and keeps it in check.
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
-
Rather than fool him with another "Nusu Mkate" idea, We need to encourage Raila that he has the potential to capture #1, and also encourage him and all, that the Official Opposition Leader positive is a very important executive position that shadows the govt and keeps it in check.
Who is "we", and why do you believe that "our" encouragement would have any effect on Raila. The man has shown that he is very susceptible to poorly-thought-out ideas, the most recent being a funny "boycott", followed by a circus in which he was sworn in as president of some virtual republic.
Raila would probably be happy just to be called "President", with or without power. (As an aside, I'm not sure that he would know what to do with the power if he were a real President.) Add to that the fact that GEMA is, and has always been, loathe to lose power, and there's the possibility that Muthaura's idea is more like reducing a full con to just half a con, which is where, past betrayals notwithstanding, they might still get Raila.
See, if Uhuro & Co and Raila agree on a (powerless) President and PM (for Uhuru), then right off the bat you've GEMA and Raila's followers in the bag. The soft-headed/weak-kneed Western and Eastern chaps---Wetangula, Mudavadi, and Kalonzo---are no problem: dangle something "big" (Majority Leader, Speaker, House This or That, or a cabinet post), and they'll join the line so fast it will make your head swing. Then, right there you have enough support---the tribal sheep will always follow---for a referendum to change the constitution and rewind to 2002/i]Kazi iendelee.[/i]
-
FRANCIS MUTHAURA has proposed amendments to the constitution that will see a presidential candidate with highest number of votes and the runners up to automatically form a coalition government.
In his proposal, the winner in a presidential election will become the President and the runners-up to become the Prime Minister.
What happens when the running mate and the runners up are kinsmen?
-
Who is "we", and why do you believe that "our" encouragement would have any effect on Raila. The man has shown that he is very susceptible to poorly-thought-out ideas, the most recent being a funny "boycott", followed by a circus in which he was sworn in as president of some virtual republic.
Raila would probably be happy just to be called "President", with or without power. (As an aside, I'm not sure that he would know what to do with the power if he were a real President.) Add to that the fact that GEMA is, and has always been, loathe to lose power, and there's the possibility that Muthaura's idea is more like reducing a full con to just half a con, which is where, past betrayals notwithstanding, they might still get Raila.
See, if Uhuro & Co and Raila agree on a (powerless) President and PM (for Uhuru), then right off the bat you've GEMA and Raila's followers in the bag. The soft-headed/weak-kneed Western and Eastern chaps---Wetangula, Mudavadi, and Kalonzo---are no problem: dangle something "big" (Majority Leader, Speaker, House This or That, or a cabinet post), and they'll join the line so fast it will make your head swing. Then, right there you have enough support---the tribal sheep will always follow---for a referendum to change the constitution and rewind to 2002 Kazi iendelee.
This is my reading too of the scenario at present. Once GEMA cremé smell continued stay in power, they will file behind their man; Raila's clan won't mind a ceremonial title provided his lipbummed face graces the potraits with his effigies all over. I do think once the cat is out of the bag, there's no telling who will be in what coalition. The proper parliamentary system is fitter for Kenya, but while not a panacea, no issue who nicks it provided they are more accountable.
For now the dream team is such
Raila - ceremonial president
Gideon - ceremonial VP
Uhuru - Exec PM
Kalonzo - DPM
Madvd - DPM
Weta - House Something
Joho - House Something Else
-
Yaani Wetangula get back his previous position.Not as bad as Uhuru saluting President Raila as he desperately Wade through parliamentary shouting matches with official leader of opposition WSR.Robina whoever a hired you at Pablo alto just needed to tick the affarmative box..female, black n disabled.Bingo.Youre hired.Some ideas are just so outright stupid like Muthaura here..or those crazy Uhuru PM and Raila PORK.
-
The Ouru and Raila, Man Gidi will do what works for them. Their only worry is how to deal with the critical mass and what to do with their most powerfully and vociferous opponents in the likes of Ruto and Miguna. Once they have figured out how to sell their plan to a critical mass and how to deal with their critical opponents then they will slowly roll out their plan on how they will arrange themselves maintain their power. The rest is academic that we will discuss until the next time that new arrangements are neccessary.
Who is "we", and why do you believe that "our" encouragement would have any effect on Raila. The man has shown that he is very susceptible to poorly-thought-out ideas, the most recent being a funny "boycott", followed by a circus in which he was sworn in as president of some virtual republic.
Raila would probably be happy just to be called "President", with or without power. (As an aside, I'm not sure that he would know what to do with the power if he were a real President.) Add to that the fact that GEMA is, and has always been, loathe to lose power, and there's the possibility that Muthaura's idea is more like reducing a full con to just half a con, which is where, past betrayals notwithstanding, they might still get Raila.
See, if Uhuro & Co and Raila agree on a (powerless) President and PM (for Uhuru), then right off the bat you've GEMA and Raila's followers in the bag. The soft-headed/weak-kneed Western and Eastern chaps---Wetangula, Mudavadi, and Kalonzo---are no problem: dangle something "big" (Majority Leader, Speaker, House This or That, or a cabinet post), and they'll join the line so fast it will make your head swing. Then, right there you have enough support---the tribal sheep will always follow---for a referendum to change the constitution and rewind to 2002 Kazi iendelee.
This is my reading too of the scenario at present. Once GEMA cremé smell continued stay in power, they will file behind their man; Raila's clan won't mind a ceremonial title provided his lipbummed face graces the potraits with his effigies all over. I do think once the cat is out of the bag, there's no telling who will be in what coalition. The proper parliamentary system is fitter for Kenya, but while not a panacea, no issue who nicks it provided they are more accountable.
For now the dream team is such
Raila - ceremonial president
Gideon - ceremonial VP
Uhuru - Exec PM
Kalonzo - DPM
Madvd - DPM
Weta - House Something
Joho - House Something Else
-
The Ouru and Raila, Man Gidi will do what works for them. Their only worry is how to deal with the critical mass and what to do with their most powerfully and vociferous opponents in the likes of Ruto and Miguna. Once they have figured out how to sell their plan to a critical mass and how to deal with their critical opponents then they will slowly roll out their plan on how they will arrange themselves maintain their power. The rest is academic that we will discuss until the next time that new arrangements are neccessary.
Miguna? You've got to be joking. He has great entertainment value and can be a pest---"vociferous", as you put it---but beyond that? Where is he being vociferous right now, and what has the Handshake Man he swore in as "President" done to help him? Miguna's fights are right and proper. But the hard fact is that most Kenyans don't really care. Nor does Raila, whom he alternately castigates and latches onto.
If I were Miguna, I'd forget all the ingrates and go back to quietly practicing law. When Kenyans are ready for change---something that will require the sort of sustained kicks in the teeth that Moi gave them---it will happen. Right now things are bad but not bad enough.