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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: gout on September 07, 2018, 10:06:50 AM

Title: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: gout on September 07, 2018, 10:06:50 AM
What happened given they have feasibility figures by the fingertips when shutting down Kenyan commentators of the SGR. Or is it evident Ruto is eating a bigger pie than Uhuru thus need for the fisibility study?

 'we have the projections ....number of trains ... figures couples of weeks?'


China Communications Construction Company and local KR proxies already ate the feasibility study billions


Where is Museveni on SGR?? Seems he is more on roads..
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RVtitem on September 07, 2018, 10:31:39 AM
Seems you forget this was a government to government project that we were told didn't require any feasibility. That the returns were obvious and that negativos should shut up
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 07, 2018, 12:00:22 PM
There is nothing like "government to government project". A big lie so as not to undergo the obligations of tendering a project and single sourcing of the suppliers.
China can give you a loan to build a project but would never force you to give it to a particular Chinese company. There are several Chinese companies that build railways and one can tender the project giving one condition that the winner has to come from China.

Seems you forget this was a government to government project that we were told didn't require any feasibility. That the returns were obvious and that negativos should shut up
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RVtitem on September 07, 2018, 03:19:01 PM
There is nothing like "government to government project". A big lie so as not to undergo the obligations of tendering a project and single sourcing of the suppliers.
China can give you a loan to build a project but would never force you to give it to a particular Chinese company. There are several Chinese companies that build railways and one can tender the project giving one condition that the winner has to come from China.

Seems you forget this was a government to government project that we were told didn't require any feasibility. That the returns were obvious and that negativos should shut up

Then it's safe to speculate that Uhuru could be shareholder by proxy in monopolist China road and bridge corp kenya
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: vooke on September 07, 2018, 03:50:32 PM
There is nothing like "government to government project". A big lie so as not to undergo the obligations of tendering a project and single sourcing of the suppliers.
China can give you a loan to build a project but would never force you to give it to a particular Chinese company. There are several Chinese companies that build railways and one can tender the project giving one condition that the winner has to come from China.

Seems you forget this was a government to government project that we were told didn't require any feasibility. That the returns were obvious and that negativos should shut up

Then it's safe to speculate that Uhuru could be shareholder by proxy in monopolist China road and bridge corp kenya

How else do you think they ate the loot?
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 07, 2018, 04:11:04 PM
No need to speculate. He is a shareholder in all the contracts China Road and Bridges Corporation (CRBC) gets in Kenya. Minimum 10% of the contract. Jimmy Wanjigi introduced him to CRBC with the idea of buildng the SGR. Uhuru then realised he did not need to share the loot with Jimmy and kicked him out. Hence the fallout of the two bossom friends.

Then it's safe to speculate that Uhuru could be shareholder by proxy in monopolist China road and bridge corp kenya
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: MOON Ki on September 08, 2018, 02:51:08 AM
To be "fair", it must be noted that quite a few other people also "ate" from the SGR.   E.g.: https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001284378/taxpayers-lost-more-than-sh4-billion-in-sgr-land-deals

How many people have "invested" in land on the Naivasha-Kisumu line and are now waiting to reap?   This line surely must be built.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: MOON Ki on September 08, 2018, 03:15:35 AM
What happened given they have feasibility figures by the fingertips when shutting down Kenyan commentators of the SGR. Or is it evident Ruto is eating a bigger pie than Uhuru thus need for the fisibility study?

What feasibility studies?   According to Global Construction Review, Uhuru, operating kienyeji style,  went to Beijing with a contract ready to be signed.  Kung Fu asked "Where are the viability studies?".   Uhuru said "Oops!" and returned home.   Looks like Kung Fu is taking note of what's gone on with Phase 1. 

Article: http://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/china-holds-back-funding-latest-kenya-railway-phas/
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2018, 07:07:38 AM
Sgr is viable but phase 3 to kisumu budget has ballooned to 4b.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: MOON Ki on September 09, 2018, 09:53:42 AM
Sgr is viable but phase 3 to kisumu budget has ballooned to 4b.

Sounds good.  Better get that information to Kung Fu real quick.   They are ones that seem concerned.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 09, 2018, 04:10:29 PM
I am sure they will be pleased with numbers like I am.
Sounds good.  Better get that information to Kung Fu real quick.   They are ones that seem concerned.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 09, 2018, 05:08:59 PM
You have the numbers and the Transport CS does not have them?

I am sure they will be pleased with numbers like I am.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 09, 2018, 05:18:22 PM
I got the numbers from him.
You have the numbers and the Transport CS does not have them?
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 10, 2018, 10:36:49 AM
He was in China negotiating without the numbers. Why did you not just give him back the figures he gave you? Now he has to come back to Kenya, collect the figures and go back to China to negotiate.

I got the numbers from him.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 10, 2018, 12:03:03 PM
Why are you in a hurry - Phase 2A - to Naivasha is far from complete - they are about 60% done with railway work - there are mapping the dry port - and there is ongoing survey for industrial park - so I am sure ministers will furnish Exim bank of China with figures. We are already 8 trains - that is maybe 5yr projection achieved in 8 months - are set for 14 trains - 28 trips a day by december - so yes the number are so solid - right now there is no space to put containers in Nairobi - so hopefully when Naivasha's dry port is complete that will solve the problem - and containers destined to west of Nairobi - can be shunted there.

He was in China negotiating without the numbers. Why did you not just give him back the figures he gave you? Now he has to come back to Kenya, collect the figures and go back to China to negotiate.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 14, 2018, 09:42:57 AM
It appears Uganda will most likely pull out. Museveni is already spread too thin debt wise - and is also thinking about TZ line. Therefore China need new feasibility study that factor that.

So with Uganda pulling out - the line to Malaba will not make sense - I still think we should terminate at Kisumu - then work on a naivasha to Nakuru to Eldoret line. Then SGR would have covered kenya 5 cities.

From Kisumu - Ugandans & others can choose to use lake victoria or transport with trucks. From Eldoret - they can use the old MGR or roads.

After that we need to get Light Train in Nairobi. Then revive the old MGR -- all over the country - because in 10yrs - SGR will not be enough - even with double stacking.

https://www.independent.co.ug/railway-officials-take-750bn-in-bribes/
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 14, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
To finance all these projects Kenya will have to raise VAT to 40% on all products.

It appears Uganda will most likely pull out. Museveni is already spread too thin debt wise - and is also thinking about TZ line. Therefore China need new feasibility study that factor that.

So with Uganda pulling out - the line to Malaba will not make sense - I still think we should terminate at Kisumu - then work on a naivasha to Nakuru to Eldoret line. Then SGR would have covered kenya 5 cities.

From Kisumu - Ugandans & others can choose to use lake victoria or transport with trucks. From Eldoret - they can use the old MGR or roads.

After that we need to get Light Train in Nairobi. Then revive the old MGR -- all over the country - because in 10yrs - SGR will not be enough - even with double stacking.

https://www.independent.co.ug/railway-officials-take-750bn-in-bribes/
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 14, 2018, 10:28:02 AM
I think selling safaricom shares will get us nearly 4B dollars - enough to finance about half of those railway projects - we then can borrow half. Selling 40% of Kenya Pipeline, National Oil & Kenya Ports Authority will be enough to finance about half of LAPSET. Selling of Nairobi City residential estate lands - will be enough to finance Light Train in Nairobi.

Gov has to bring back privatization on the table....sell mature cash-generating parastals - and invest in Kenya Railways - and once KR is profitable - then sell it and finance something else.

We are investing in public companies...we should re-coup early investments in Safaricom, National Oil, KCB, KAA, KP, name them.

To finance all these projects Kenya will have to raise VAT to 40% on all products.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: Kadudu on September 14, 2018, 11:18:12 AM
Once all those parastals and govt shares are sold, how will the govt finance future projects?

I think selling safaricom shares will get us nearly 4B dollars - enough to finance about half of those railway projects - we then can borrow half. Selling 40% of Kenya Pipeline, National Oil & Kenya Ports Authority will be enough to finance about half of LAPSET. Selling of Nairobi City residential estate lands - will be enough to finance Light Train in Nairobi.

Gov has to bring back privatization on the table....sell mature cash-generating parastals - and invest in Kenya Railways - and once KR is profitable - then sell it and finance something else.

We are investing in public companies...we should re-coup early investments in Safaricom, National Oil, KCB, KAA, KP, name them.

To finance all these projects Kenya will have to raise VAT to 40% on all products.
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 14, 2018, 11:22:32 AM
Gov is investing in other parastals. For example- KR will have assets worth 10B dollars - once China are in Kisumu - and we can sell some Kenya Railways shares - esp if as I believe it will be rivaling Safaricom in revenues. We are doing public investments. We are not selling to eat the money. Gov need to invest in Konza City - that Konza city will be worth a lot in 20yrs - just like Safaricom or Kenya pipeline or KPA.
Once all those parastals and govt shares are sold, how will the govt finance future projects?
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: vooke on September 14, 2018, 01:37:18 PM
It appears Uganda will most likely pull out. Museveni is already spread too thin debt wise - and is also thinking about TZ line. Therefore China need new feasibility study that factor that.

So with Uganda pulling out - the line to Malaba will not make sense - I still think we should terminate at Kisumu - then work on a naivasha to Nakuru to Eldoret line. Then SGR would have covered kenya 5 cities.

From Kisumu - Ugandans & others can choose to use lake victoria or transport with trucks. From Eldoret - they can use the old MGR or roads.

After that we need to get Light Train in Nairobi. Then revive the old MGR -- all over the country - because in 10yrs - SGR will not be enough - even with double stacking.

https://www.independent.co.ug/railway-officials-take-750bn-in-bribes/

Naivasha-Eldy is totally redundant. Kisumu to Malaba is about the same distance as Eldy to Malaba. Eldy is just a transit town and we certainly don’t need SGR to transport maize
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: RV Pundit on September 14, 2018, 03:22:40 PM
I think connecting Nakuru and Eldoret - our two brand new cities make sense - even transporting maize to Nairobi is big business. With Uganda pulling out or growing cold feet - we need to lock at our national strategy - and for me - we have to terminate at Kisumu - and then try to get to Nakuru & Kisumu. Malaba doesn't make any sense unless we want to make it cheaper for ugandas - let them come for their cargo in Eldoret or Kisumu.

There is scope to of course work on old railway line with uganda - just modernize the MGR - and that will suffer transit cargo.

Anyway we need lots of railways - just look at South Africa.

Naivasha-Eldy is totally redundant. Kisumu to Malaba is about the same distance as Eldy to Malaba. Eldy is just a transit town and we certainly don’t need SGR to transport maize
Title: Re: What is hard with Uhuru, Ruto, Macharia providing the SGR Feasibility Studies?
Post by: GeeMail on September 16, 2018, 03:17:14 PM
Turns out China actually pulled back funding for SGR (how did MoonKi know?). Pundit was speculating the other day viability will work with containers being shunted onward to Western Kenya. The problem is far from that. Freighters are complaining about the cost of transporting empty containers back to Msa from Nairobi container depot. Previously, empty containers would lie in the yards in Msa at minimal cost. What's so difficult about SGR transporting empty containers back to Msa anyway?

https://www.nation.co.ke/business/Questions-on-viability-of-SGR-refuse-to-go-away/996-4761966-sgtqe5z/index.html