Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Globalcitizen12 on June 28, 2018, 08:25:35 AM
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Pokot
Kisiii
Turkana
Nandi
Tugen
Wakuria
Somalis these retaets are fucking disgusting
Please add to this list. I know some ikikuyus especially those retards that are adherents of independent churches and Catholic church were cutting girls up to the late 1980s
Holyshit 43 percent of kikuyu women are cut..this is according to health survey of 1998. Kikuyus lesrng this savagery from nilotes and cushites..fuck kikuyu retards that are still mutilating girls..we need to crackdown and kill all circumciser
Veritas,
Can you crest a anit Fgm banner..
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Start from Somalis & Turkana & Boranas( like 100%); Merus & Embus & Gusii & Kurias (like 80%). Pokot & Marakwet(50%). Kipsigis (10%). Nandi/Keiyo/tugen stopped circumcision I think in 1970s or earlier than that.
As far as circumcision of Keyans - Kalenjin taught nearly all communities in kenya (save for oromos & somalis) how to circumcise. For example Kikuyus learnt circumscion from Kalenjin speaking aboriginals leaving amongst them.
Maina - Maina
Mwangi - Nyongi
Irungu - Korongoro
Iciuma/Cuma - Chumo
Pokot
Kisiii
Turkana
Nandi
Tugen
Wakuria
Somalis these retaets are fucking disgusting
Please add to this list. I know some ikikuyus especially those retards that are adherents of independent churches and Catholic church were cutting girls up to the late 1980s..however, 90 percent of kikuyu girls are not cut..
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Kikuyus suprrised me..Kenyatta and akina ngugi was thionvo were supporters of this tradition
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I remember sleeping with this upper class kikuyu damsel and realixing she been cut..most Kenyans are retards..most parents are irresponsible savages..
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Yeah most of gema cut - and like gusii - they hide it - so it very hard to stop it. Kalenjin fgm is basically over - apart from pokots - because it was done in public - not clandestinely- it was easy to end. GEMA one - hospitals do it clanedlistenly but - admittedly it not heavy.
But seriously our women are missing the joy that Uganda women have - women of Uganda elongate and do all tricks to make their clitoris big. Very lucky women.
I remember sleeping with this upper class kikuyu damsel and realixing she been cut..most Kenyans are retards..most parents are irresponsible savages..
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Yeah in my village it was done openly in the 1980s.. Catholics and independent church allowed if ..pcea and other Protestant churches opposed it..in 1945 mau mau caused a referendum on the issue and when the tradionalists lost they left church to form independent churches that Kenyatta used to upsurge power
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Yeah most of gema cut - and like gusii - they hide it - so it very hard to stop it. Kalenjin fgm is basically over - apart from pokots - because it was done in public - not clandestinely- it was easy to end. GEMA one - hospitals do it clanedlistenly but - admittedly it not heavy.
But seriously our women are missing the joy that Uganda women have - women of Uganda elongate and do all tricks to make their clitoris big. Very lucky women.
I remember sleeping with this upper class kikuyu damsel and realixing she been cut..most Kenyans are retards..most parents are irresponsible savages..
Even male circumcision should be stopped..it kills the pleasure and serves no reason..yeah ugsndans are sexual beastd..we had Ugandan employees that would have orvies all the time..the girl would host 5 malex that would fuck vilivyo
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Interesting.
Yeah in my village it was done openly in the 1980s.. Catholics and independent church allowed if ..pcea and other Protestant churches opposed it..in 1945 mau mau caused a referendum on the issue and when the tradionalists lost they left church to form independent churches that Kenyatta used to upsurge power
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Interesting.Yeah in my village it was done openly in the 1980s.. Catholics and independent church allowed if ..pcea and other Protestant churches opposed it..in 1945 mau mau caused a referendum on the issue and when the tradionalists lost they left church to form independent churches that Kenyatta used to upsurge power
Catholic church is the most retrogressive major Christian Church in Africa..they are opportunists and hypocrites. In my youth we used to go and drink with young semerians from kagwe parish..those guys were obohos from Eastlands they were rotten to the core..I actually got to take a "Senegalese" nun out of the seminary..she was hot six foot model..after a night of binge drinking we ended up in the seminary and that how we ended leaving with this girl..I think that night alone we drank over 3k church funds. This is money sourced from poor parishioners...some so poor they could hardly afford a meal..most Catholics in my village were poor working class there were a few well to do but most were poor
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That is how Catholic have survived anything and managed to spread everywhere. They embed themselves to the systems. Be it animist or traditionalist or nazis or hutus killing tustis or democracy or communism or dictatorship - they just thrive.I doubt any other large organisation has survived for more than 1,500 yrs and actually thrive.
Catholic church is the most retrogressive major Christian Church in Africa..they are opportunists and hypocrites. In my youth we used to go and drink with young semerians from kagwe parish..those guys were obohos from Eastlands they were rotten to the core..I actually got to take a "Senegalese" nun out of the seminary..she was hot six foot model..after a night of binge drinking we ended up in the seminary and that how we ended leaving with this girl..I think that night alone we drank over 3k church funds. This is money sourced from poor parishioners...some so poor they could hardly afford a meal..most Catholics in my village were poor working class there were a few well to do but most were poor
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That why Catholic like kadame just confuse the hell out of me..I loathe religion so much that even my mum I tell her that her god is dead.. Catholic church is a cult. They aligned themselves with hiltler to protect Rome..meanwhile in Poland Catholics were being massacred by nazis...no wonder the church attracts so many peodophiles in it's priesthood..
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I’d remove the Turkana from that list. They don’t do the males either. The problem seems to be especially huge in East to North East Africa. More prevalent and cruel as you move Northwards.
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right -don't know what got into me - turkana don't do it. The genesis of circumcision is certainly ancient egypt. It certainly pre-dates the spread of Islam. Kenya ones are certainly attributable to Kalenjin and cushites.
I’d remove the Turkana from that list. They don’t do the males either. The problem seems to be especially huge in East to North East Africa. More prevalent and cruel as you move Northwards.
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In West Africa especially the South-East and the Sahara countries is worse. They do not even pretend to fight against it.
What I know is most men who come from these cultures and discover the ones without the cut never look back again. A woman's joy is a man's joy. It just shows how hypocritical this tradition is in the modern world.
I’d remove the Turkana from that list. They don’t do the males either. The problem seems to be especially huge in East to North East Africa. More prevalent and cruel as you move Northwards.
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In West Africa especially the South-East and the Sahara countries is worse. They do not even pretend to fight against it.
What I know is most men who come from these cultures and discover the ones without the cut never look back again. A woman's joy is a man's joy. It just shows how hypocritical this tradition is in the modern world.
I’d remove the Turkana from that list. They don’t do the males either. The problem seems to be especially huge in East to North East Africa. More prevalent and cruel as you move Northwards.
It’s a problem but not at the levels you find in Somalia, Ethiopia, Egypt. Egypt is particularly shocking given its level of exposure to modernity.
I have not noticed the trend you mentioned about men’s discovery of uncut women. These men are usually also socialized to view uncut women as a taboo. That’s partly why it’s so difficult to eradicate.
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I thought it's an islamic thing - that is mostly recommended
It’s a problem but not at the levels you find in Somalia, Ethiopia, Egypt. Egypt is particularly shocking given its level of exposure to modernity.
I have not noticed the trend you mentioned about men’s discovery of uncut women. These men are usually also socialized to view uncut women as a taboo. That’s partly why it’s so difficult to eradicate.
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There is nothing wrong with the cut. It is condescending and accusatory to call it FG Mutilation. There is no mutilation. There is more mutilation of women's faces and other parts of the body in the name of beauty than one finds down there.
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I thought it's an islamic thing - that is mostly recommended
Short answer: No it is not.
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It is not Islamic. It is practiced by many muslims because communities that practiced it were subsumed into Islam during its expansion into the North of Africa I think. But there are many strict muslim Arab communities who not only dont practice it but abhor it.
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Also, yes. It is multilitation. And besides its effects on female sexuality, it also carries serious psychological and other bodily effects. There are complications in child birth and other health effects. The only way to eradicate it is to institute laws for yearly medical check ups for girls under 18. And punishing (severely) any adults with authority over them if these children are found to have been subjected to it. Some European countries prevent it this way in migrant communities that come from places that practice it sometimes with the threat that these adults could lose their asylum in addition to jail time if their children are found to have been subjected to FGM since their entry into that country regardless of where the act may have taken place.
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Global, you are simply factually incorrect about the history of the Nazi era and the Catholic Church but I will not get into one of those never ending debates about it. Just FYI.
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There have been some cases of unqualified "surgeons" who do harm to some women. Otherwise the vast majority do not experience any of these things I read about.
I know many (highly educated) women who opted (yes you hear me - OPTED) to be cut. They did it willingly and even hid from parents to sneak and be cut.
I have never been told the basis upon which mutilations carried out on women's bodies (including their private parts) are hallowed and accepted but the cut is singled out for vilification.
Kadame you should organize to be cut.
Also, yes. It is multilitation. And besides its effects on female sexuality, it also carries serious psychological and other bodily effects. There are complications in child birth and other health effects. The only way to eradicate it is to institute laws for yearly medical check ups for girls under 18. And punishing (severely) any adults with authority over them if they are foubd to have been subjected to it. Some European countries prevent it this way in migrant communities from places that practice it sometimes with the threat that these adults could lose their asylum if their children are found to have been subjected to FGM since their entry into that country regardless of where the act may have taken place.
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Global, you are simply factually incorrect about the history of the Nazi era and the Catholic Church but I will not get into one of those never ending debates about it. Just FYI.
Do not be afraid, I am all ears.
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Kadame
Let me hear your point on this because you are wrong..
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Omollo
I a teenager has no ability cto make rational decision on such a matter..in pokot and kikuyu lamd the girls cut are as young as 10 to 16 years..
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Circumcision was promoted by Christian Puritans who were against masturbation.. male circumcision is mutilation too
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Nothing to do with Islam. Women in Saudi Arabia motherland of Islam are not cut.
Infact majority of Muslim women are not cut. FGM is more limited to the African continent even among Muslims.
I thought it's an islamic thing - that is mostly recommended
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The issue of age and legal consent has been raised.
It is interesting to know that Age of Sexual Consent ranges from 12 in some places (Netherlands) to 21 (Bahrain). Need I say more?
Omollo
I a teenager has no ability cto make rational decision on such a matter..in pokot and kikuyu lamd the girls cut are as young as 10 to 16 years..
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We are talking of Kenya stop going all over the place
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Very unique true perspective.
There is nothing wrong with the cut. It is condescending and accusatory to call it FG Mutilation. There is no mutilation. There is more mutilation of women's faces and other parts of the body in the name of beauty than one finds down there.
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Very unique true perspective.
There is nothing wrong with the cut. It is condescending and accusatory to call it FG Mutilation. There is no mutilation. There is more mutilation of women's faces and other parts of the body in the name of beauty than one finds down there.
Omollo once shared my strong anti FGM views. Study after study seems to confirm Kadame’s post about its effects on women’s health. Most FGM practices would be the equivalent of chopping off a man’s penis(entire genitalia for the worst).
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Omollo once shared my strong anti FGM views. Study after study seems to confirm Kadame’s post about its effects on women’s health. Most FGM practices would be the equivalent of chopping off a man’s penis(entire genitalia for the worst).
I am still against MUTILATION of Women. I am against denying women the opportunity to manage their own bodies. If they choose to fix any part of it for any reasons; they should be allowed.
Women in The West argue that they need some mutilations for psychological reasons. They want to be attractive to men who they would otherwise not be if they did not undergo that facelift or some vigina job. Well guess what, a girl in Murang'a, Kuria or NEP may not get a suitor for the simple reason that she has not been cut. She will also suffer psychological issues because of her inability to fit in all because she is not cut.
By the time some kids (boys and girls) in The West are 16, they have already undergone multiple MUTILATIONs. Let me list some ( and I am not adding sea salt..):
- Abdominoplasty ("tummy tuck"): reshaping and firming of the abdomen
- Blepharoplasty ("eyelid surgery"): reshaping of upper/ lower eyelids including Asian blepharoplasty
- Phalloplasty ("penile surgery") : construction (or reconstruction) of a penis or, sometimes, artificial modification of the penis by surgery, often for cosmetic purposes
- Mammoplasty:Breast augmentations ("breast implant" or "boob job"): augmentation of the breasts by means of fat grafting, saline, or silicone gel prosthetics, which was initially performed to women with micromastia
- Reduction mammoplasty ("breast reduction"): removal of skin and glandular tissue, which is done to reduce back and shoulder pain in women with gigantomastia and for men with gynecomastia
- Mastopexy ("breast lift"): Lifting or reshaping of breasts to make them less saggy, often after weight loss (after a pregnancy, for example). It involves removal of breast skin as opposed to glandular tissue
- Buttock augmentation ("butt implant"): enhancement of the buttocks using silicone implants or fat grafting ("Brazilian butt lift") and transfer from other areas of the body
- Buttock lift: lifting, and tightening of the buttocks by excision of excess skin
- Cryolipolysis: refers to a medical device used to destroy fat cells. Its principle relies on controlled cooling for non-invasive local reduction of fat deposits to reshape body contours.
- Cryoneuromodulation: Treatment of superficial and subcutaneous tissue structures using gaseous nitrous oxide, including temporary wrinkle reduction, temporary pain reduction, treatment of dermatologic conditions, and focal cryo-treatment of tissue
- Calf Augmentation: done by silicone implants or fat transfer to add bulk to calf muscles
- Labiaplasty: surgical reduction and reshaping of the labia
- Lip enhancement: surgical improvement of lips' fullness through enlargement
- Rhinoplasty ("nose job"): reshaping of the nose
- Otoplasty ("ear surgery"/"ear pinning"): reshaping of the ear, most often done by pinning the protruding ear closer to the head.
- Rhytidectomy ("face lift"): removal of wrinkles and signs of aging from the face
- Neck lift: tightening of lax tissues in the neck. This procedure is often combined with a facelift for lower face rejuvenation.
- Browplasty ("brow lift" or "forehead lift"): elevates eyebrows, smooths forehead skin
- Midface lift ("cheek lift"): tightening of the cheeks
- Genioplasty ("chin implant"): augmentation of the chin with an implant, usually silicone, by sliding genioplasty of the jawbone or by suture of the soft tissue
- Cheek augmentation ("cheek implant"): implants to the cheek
- Orthognathic Surgery: manipulation of the facial bones through controlled fracturing
- Fillers injections: collagen, fat, and other tissue filler injections, such as hyaluronic acid
- Brachioplasty ("Arm lift"): reducing excess skin and fat between the underarm and the elbow
- Laser Skin Rejuvenation or laser resurfacing: the lessening of depth in pores of the face
- Liposuction ("suction lipectomy"): removal of fat deposits by traditional suction technique or ultrasonic energy to aid fat removal
- Zygoma reduction plasty: reshaping the face
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Omollo once shared my strong anti FGM views. Study after study seems to confirm Kadame’s post about its effects on women’s health. Most FGM practices would be the equivalent of chopping off a man’s penis(entire genitalia for the worst).
I am still against MUTILATION of Women. I am against denying women the opportunity to manage their own bodies. If they choose to fix any part of it for any reasons; they should be allowed.
Women in The West argue that they need some mutilations for psychological reasons. They want to be attractive to men who they would otherwise not be if they did not undergo that facelift or some vigina job. Well guess what, a girl in Murang'a, Kuria or NEP may not get a suitor for the simple reason that she has not been cut. She will also suffer psychological issues because of her inability to fit in all because she is not cut.
By the time some kids (boys and girls) in The West are 16, they have already undergone multiple MUTILATIONs. Let me list some ( and I am not adding sea salt..):
- Abdominoplasty ("tummy tuck"): reshaping and firming of the abdomen
- Blepharoplasty ("eyelid surgery"): reshaping of upper/ lower eyelids including Asian blepharoplasty
- Phalloplasty ("penile surgery") : construction (or reconstruction) of a penis or, sometimes, artificial modification of the penis by surgery, often for cosmetic purposes
- Mammoplasty:Breast augmentations ("breast implant" or "boob job"): augmentation of the breasts by means of fat grafting, saline, or silicone gel prosthetics, which was initially performed to women with micromastia
- Reduction mammoplasty ("breast reduction"): removal of skin and glandular tissue, which is done to reduce back and shoulder pain in women with gigantomastia and for men with gynecomastia
- Mastopexy ("breast lift"): Lifting or reshaping of breasts to make them less saggy, often after weight loss (after a pregnancy, for example). It involves removal of breast skin as opposed to glandular tissue
- Buttock augmentation ("butt implant"): enhancement of the buttocks using silicone implants or fat grafting ("Brazilian butt lift") and transfer from other areas of the body
- Buttock lift: lifting, and tightening of the buttocks by excision of excess skin
- Cryolipolysis: refers to a medical device used to destroy fat cells. Its principle relies on controlled cooling for non-invasive local reduction of fat deposits to reshape body contours.
- Cryoneuromodulation: Treatment of superficial and subcutaneous tissue structures using gaseous nitrous oxide, including temporary wrinkle reduction, temporary pain reduction, treatment of dermatologic conditions, and focal cryo-treatment of tissue
- Calf Augmentation: done by silicone implants or fat transfer to add bulk to calf muscles
- Labiaplasty: surgical reduction and reshaping of the labia
- Lip enhancement: surgical improvement of lips' fullness through enlargement
- Rhinoplasty ("nose job"): reshaping of the nose
- Otoplasty ("ear surgery"/"ear pinning"): reshaping of the ear, most often done by pinning the protruding ear closer to the head.
- Rhytidectomy ("face lift"): removal of wrinkles and signs of aging from the face
- Neck lift: tightening of lax tissues in the neck. This procedure is often combined with a facelift for lower face rejuvenation.
- Browplasty ("brow lift" or "forehead lift"): elevates eyebrows, smooths forehead skin
- Midface lift ("cheek lift"): tightening of the cheeks
- Genioplasty ("chin implant"): augmentation of the chin with an implant, usually silicone, by sliding genioplasty of the jawbone or by suture of the soft tissue
- Cheek augmentation ("cheek implant"): implants to the cheek
- Orthognathic Surgery: manipulation of the facial bones through controlled fracturing
- Fillers injections: collagen, fat, and other tissue filler injections, such as hyaluronic acid
- Brachioplasty ("Arm lift"): reducing excess skin and fat between the underarm and the elbow
- Laser Skin Rejuvenation or laser resurfacing: the lessening of depth in pores of the face
- Liposuction ("suction lipectomy"): removal of fat deposits by traditional suction technique or ultrasonic energy to aid fat removal
- Zygoma reduction plasty: reshaping the face
They make free(informed) choice in an environment with ample protections, both legal and medical. You can hardly say the same for a young woman in Dadaab refugee camp.
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They make free(informed) choice in an environment with ample protections, both legal and medical. You can hardly say the same for a young woman in Dadaab refugee camp.
Should they then be given the choice? Remember it is not the choice that is the issue for the poor. Imagine if all those body invasions were banned.
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Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.
I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese) is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.
I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.
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labiaplasty is simply put surgery that improves the appearance of the *ç%*"+. Vaginal rejuvenation... Of course some really need such a job but most after [over] use. We have situations where teenagers go for it and no law prevents them. The argument is usually psychological.
I was educated by Bondo Society Women in Sierra Leone after I presided over an anti FGM program. They matched our propaganda with theirs and they had Ngugi wa Thiong'o's book among other weapons. I decided to stop the whole thing and stop talk at them.
Frankly the only strong point is that about making an informed decision. But when it comes to double standards and double morality, the would floor you down flat. I offer to take you there for education next year (all costs paid)
Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.
I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese) is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.
I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.
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FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.
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Agreed. Whatever the age of delimiting childhood. In kenya 18yrs old.
FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.
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I always watch for that red fish when discussing this issue with anybody who can be described the suffix -ist or -ism.
When you bring up the age of 10 and below, ofcourse one has to be a monster to subject his or her kid to such things. Be it vaginal rejuvenation or other invasive intervention.
Like I said we should all probably through an international convention set the age of consent for such operations on the body. I would say it should mirror the age of sexual consent. However countries like Holland allow baboons to have sex with children aged 13. They are even trying to lower it to 12! Now imagine such a country that licences paedophilia is at the forefront of criticizing Somalia and glorifying a Kenyan Somali who cons them that she is from Somalia and they even elect her to Parliament.
Double standards cannot address the issue. One sided focus on female mutilation practiced by the poor while glorifying worse practices by the Rich of the world is doomed to fail.
Iwinjo?
FGM should be flatly illegal and severely punishable when carried out on any child. The only difficulty is implementation. As soon as any government is able to implement routine medical checks, the law should be severe and merciless. Somethings cannot wait for everyone to agree. A child of ten who has been lied to by her parents that she must go through such mutilation to be ok is in no way freely making an informed choice, leave alone the age issue. I similarly support such bans for other serious things like cosmetic surgeries or sex changes. Ditto child marriages. Decisions like that should be made by adults for themselves. Full stop.
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Most societies usually have no objection to delaying it until one is an adult and able to make her own decision. The problem is that NGOs with large amounts of money land and condemn those societies unheard. It is the arrogance and threats plus laws made without listening to the people on the ground. They are invited nay forced to meetings where the laws and decrees are read down to them directly or on radio.
They listen and say Fuck you on their way home to do their thing.
Agreed. Whatever the age of delimiting childhood. In kenya 18yrs old.
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Omollo wtf*#! Bondo Women Society in Sierra Leone? ::)
labiaplasty is simply put surgery that improves the appearance of the *ç%*"+. Vaginal rejuvenation... Of course some really need such a job but most after [over] use. We have situations where teenagers go for it and no law prevents them. The argument is usually psychological.
I was educated by Bondo Society Women in Sierra Leone after I presided over an anti FGM program. They matched our propaganda with theirs and they had Ngugi wa Thiong'o's book among other weapons. I decided to stop the whole thing and stop talk at them.
Frankly the only strong point is that about making an informed decision. But when it comes to double standards and double morality, the would floor you down flat. I offer to take you there for education next year (all costs paid)
Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.
I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese) is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.
I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.
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I always watch for that red fish when discussing this issue with anybody who can be described the suffix -ist or -ism.
When you bring up the age of 10 and below, ofcourse one has to be a monster to subject his or her kid to such things. Be it vaginal rejuvenation or other invasive intervention.
Like I said we should all probably through an international convention set the age of consent for such operations on the body. I would say it should mirror the age of sexual consent. However countries like Holland allow baboons to have sex with children aged 13. They are even trying to lower it to 12! Now imagine such a country that licences paedophilia is at the forefront of criticizing Somalia and glorifying a Kenyan Somali who cons them that she is from Somalia and they even elect her to Parliament.
Double standards cannot address the issue. One sided focus on female mutilation practiced by the poor while glorifying worse practices by the Rich of the world is doomed to fail.
Iwinjo?
Actually, I am being generous when I say 10. I know for a fact that in my own community and even worse, among the Somalis, children far younger than 10 are subjected to this. Also, engaging in sexual intercourse should not be linked in any way with seriously or permanently disfiguring/mutilating the body. They are simply not like things. I think people who allow adults to have sex with children of 12 without serious consequence are insane. Most countries in the World would place the age of consent between 16 and 18. Still, this is a separate thing from mutilations that are not medically required especially when they have the effect of destroying or severely impeding normal functions of the body, like a woman's ability to experience pleasure when she is having sex. These should be available to adults only without exceptions.
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Omollo wtf*#! Bondo Women Society in Sierra Leone? ::)
labiaplasty is simply put surgery that improves the appearance of the *ç%*"+. Vaginal rejuvenation... Of course some really need such a job but most after [over] use. We have situations where teenagers go for it and no law prevents them. The argument is usually psychological.
I was educated by Bondo Society Women in Sierra Leone after I presided over an anti FGM program. They matched our propaganda with theirs and they had Ngugi wa Thiong'o's book among other weapons. I decided to stop the whole thing and stop talk at them.
Frankly the only strong point is that about making an informed decision. But when it comes to double standards and double morality, the would floor you down flat. I offer to take you there for education next year (all costs paid)
Omollo yawa. I thought labiaplasty was fixing a FGMed woman. You're a sophisticated omera Global can't crack the jargon.
I find that knocking out 4 front teeth (e.g. Turkana) and scarring the cheeks and forehead (South Sudanese) is more crude, cruel and prejudiced than peeling the foreskin.
I agree tradition is complex and it's unwise to simply have a blanket ban. I would insist on any procedure being medically approved and carried out by certified medics. That way "mutilation" and infections are eliminated. It's easier to teach the Somali a new way to ensure their daughters will not be promiscous than criminalizing them. Also child marriage and such negative effects of the induced "adulthood" must be outrightly illegal.
He comes up with some really avant-garde material.
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Kadame and Pundit, it's not so simple - where would you draw the line? Sex change for instance, medically you find the younger the subject the better the outcome. Sex transfer surgery works perfectly upto 15, when the body is not fully developed in late puberty. Intro boy hormones to a girl at 12 and he turns out foolproof. Do it later and you have a funny-looking manly woman like Caitlyn Jenner. Most transgenders wish it was done way early.
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Kadame
I have not said the Age of Sexual Consent is the same as the Age of Consent for Mutilations (if you will). I have simply suggested that some international convention agree on such an age. I further suggested that it could shadow the Age of Sexual Consent. If a person is considered old enough to consent to sexuak acts, s/he can also consent to such surgery.
Actually, I am being generous when I say 10. I know for a fact that in my own community and even worse, among the Somalis, children far younger than 10 are subjected to this. Also, engaging in sexual intercourse should not be linked in any way with seriously or permanently disfiguring/mutilating the body. They are simply not like things. I think people who allow adults to have sex with children of 12 without serious consequence are insane. Most countries in the World would place the age of consent between 16 and 18. Still, this is a separate thing from mutilations that are not medically required. These should be available to adults only without exceptions.
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Omollo wtf*#! Bondo Women Society in Sierra Leone? ::)
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Kadame and Pundit, it's not so simple - where would you draw the line? Sex change for instance, medically you find the younger the subject the better the outcome. Sex transfer surgery works perfectly upto 15, when the body is not fully developed in late puberty. Intro boy hormones to a girl at 12 and he turns out foolproof. Do it later and you have a funny-looking manly woman like Caitlyn Jenner. Most transgenders wish it was done way early.
Robina, most people who experience gender disphoria at an early age tend to grow out of it by adulthood. I think I have read something like upwards of 80%. Given that fact, I consider it a gross injustice to children to allow them to so seriously alter their bodies when chances are they are simply going through a phase. Medical science has not yet found a way to separate those who won't grow out of it (lets call them the 'real' trans people) from the majority who will grow into the body they have, comfortably. Still, we might make a special case for trans people, say 15.
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Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow my wife to pierce my daughter ears until she was old enough to want it, and this year @9yrs she finally got it done - after persistently asking for it. Something like fgm ought to be out of question until one is 18yrs and probably have had experience sex :) - and they can decide to take off their clitoris. I bet very few women will do that. So I'd even more the age of consent there from 18 to something like 21yrs. What a waste of nerve endings!
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Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow my wife to pierce my daughter ears until she was old enough to want it, and this year @9yrs she finally got it done - after persistently asking for it. Something like fgm ought to be out of question until one is 18yrs and probably have had experience sex :) - and they can decide to take off their clitoris. I bet very few women will do that. So I'd even more the age of consent there from 18 to something like 21yrs. What a waste of nerve endings!
Male circumcision should end too..I am not cutting my boys
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Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow my wife to pierce my daughter ears until she was old enough to want it, and this year @9yrs she finally got it done - after persistently asking for it. Something like fgm ought to be out of question until one is 18yrs and probably have had experience sex :) - and they can decide to take off their clitoris. I bet very few women will do that. So I'd even more the age of consent there from 18 to something like 21yrs. What a waste of nerve endings!
Male circumcision should end too..I am not cutting my boys
MGM is much harder to end with the stiff tradition and the nonsense about how it reduces HIV infection.
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I will start the fight I want to undo my circumcision first
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Omollo must have a term for the foreskin restoration procedure. Most African men need it - kudos for pioneering.
I will start the fight I want to undo my circumcision first
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Do your future son the same courtesy with MGM aka circumcision 8)
Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow my wife to pierce my daughter ears until she was old enough to want it, and this year @9yrs she finally got it done - after persistently asking for it. Something like fgm ought to be out of question until one is 18yrs and probably have had experience sex :) - and they can decide to take off their clitoris. I bet very few women will do that. So I'd even more the age of consent there from 18 to something like 21yrs. What a waste of nerve endings!
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The male version is harder to eradicate. Other than extreme cases it generally has no negative impact. When you factor in the alleged benefits, it’s an uphill task. It’s actually increasing in Africa because of purported benefits against HIV.