Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Kichwa on May 06, 2018, 04:30:18 PM
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It’s time to restructure the presidency, it’s the cause of our problems
By RAILA ODINGA
On August 27, 2010, President Mwai Kibaki and I led the nation in promulgating the new Constitution. This, our third post-independence constitution and the fifth in total (including the Lyttleton (1954) and Lennox-Boyd 1957-8 constitutions), was 20 years in the making, one of the longest constitution making processes in history.
In 2002, we had pledged as the National Rainbow Coalition to restart the aborted constitution and enact a new one within 100 days. We failed. That failure contributed to the 2007-8 post-election crisis that brought the country to the brink of civil war and State failure. It took flirting with disaster for us to come to our senses and give ourselves a new constitution.
BOMAS DRAFT
But why did we need a new constitution in the first place, and why is it necessary to amend it now? I have expounded on this subject at length in my book, The Quest for Nationhood: A Roadmap to Our Future, published in June last year. Here I will focus only on two proposals that are the subject of political debate today, namely, restructuring the national executive or presidency and the proposal for a third (regional) tier of devolved government, both of these along the lines of the Bomas Draft Constitution.
That said, a brief historical context is helpful. For three decades, we were governed by an authoritarian constitution that was imposed on the country by Kanu using its overwhelming victory (84 out of 124 seats) in the independence elections. This constitution abrogated the political bargain that our founding fathers struck in Lancaster House, in which they agreed that Kenya would be a federal, parliamentary democracy. The independence, Lancaster House constitution only lasted 18 months from attainment of self-rule on June 1 1963 to the first Jamhuri Day on December 12, 1964.
In the years that followed, all the structures that had been put in place in the independence constitution to entrench freedom, democracy, rule of law and good governance were discarded. Within a decade, we were a single party dictatorship, with a presidency more powerful than colonial governors.
HANDSHAKE
The regional governments which would have provided political counterweight to the centre were dismantled and even local authorities, which enjoyed considerable autonomy during the colonial era, were progressively brought under the control of the central government.
In the Memorandum of Understanding titled Building Bridges to a New Kenyan Nation that President Uhuru Kenyatta and I signed on March 9, that Kenyans have given the name “Handshake” we identified nine issues. One of these is divisive elections. We have held six general elections since the re-adoption of multiparty politics in 1991, which is one more than the single party era (1969-1991) general elections. Of these elections, only one presidential election, the 2002 one, was unanimously upheld as free and fair.
We hoped that a constitutional dispensation would propel our democracy forward and put the era of election crises and violence behind us. It has not. In effect, we have been a multiparty state longer than we were under single party rule, but we seem no closer to a democratic transition than when we began.
PARLIAMENTARY
Not all elections in Kenya are divisive. This moniker speaks to only one — the presidential election. Throughout the constitution making debate, it was recognized that the centralization of power in the presidency was one of the things we needed to change — we characterized it as the problem of the “imperial presidency.” The only question was what to change it to.
The obvious alternative is a parliamentary system in which the functions of head of state and head of government are separate, with the former bestowed on a president, typically elected indirectly, and the latter exercised by a prime minister who is the leader of the majority party or coalition in parliament.
Political scientists who have studied the merits of the two systems conclude that parliamentary systems are more stable, and better suited for culturally diverse societies. Indeed, it is often observed that the US is the only pure presidential system that has stood the test of time. Many Kenyans were reluctant to give up directly electing their president, a power they had only just regained. We compromised on a dual executive system, similar to France, where executive authority is shared between an elected president and a prime minister and cabinet appointed from the majority party or coalition in parliament.
HYBRID SYSTEM
We also agreed on a devolved system of government with four tiers, namely, the national, regional, district and location. I have elaborated on the case for revisiting these provisions in my book. In any case, we all agreed that the Bomas constitution conference left some pending business around the issues of Devolution and the Executive. As we campaigned for the draft constitution which we later promulgated in 2010, there was agreement that there was a small percentage of the document especially on devolution and executive that would have to be revisited.
On the question of the presidency, I wrote: “The Bomas Draft Constitution had proposed a hybrid system, with executive power shared between a president and a prime minister. The ultimate draft produced by the Committee of Experts had retained this. It was unexpected because, in the entire history of the Constitution-making process, this system had not been a strong contender. The proposal for the more unusual hybrid system had been largely informed by the recognition that, while the pure parliamentary system was more suitable, we had to take into account the political reality of an existing presidency.”
In fact, the presidential system as currently exercised in Kenya, is still a strong tool for exclusion. There is simply no way small tribes like the El Molo, the Turkana, the Digo, among others can ever produce a president under the current system.
180 MILLION
On devolution I wrote: “Devolution is now a reality and Kenyans have embraced it enthusiastically. But I believe that the 15 units proposed by the Bomas Draft would have made for stronger devolution on both political and economic grounds. The 15 regions proposed in the Bomas draft were in line with devolved political systems around the world. South Africa has nine provinces, Mozambique has 10 regions, Canada has 13 provinces and Germany has 16 states. Nigeria has 180 million people and land size several times the size of Kenya and has only 36 states. Most other countries are in this range.
I believe we have now reached a point where we can usefully revisit and re-examine the devolution issue. In every part of the country, we have seen county governments coming together to form regional blocs. These are an indication that the leaders have begun to feel the limitations of being divided up into 47 counties, particularly in the area of economic development initiatives.”
ABYSS
It is self-evident that these realities are not the many things that detractors and naysayers are suggesting. They are principled and considered positions that are faithful to the spirit of our Constitution. I am confident that the proposals we will put forward in the coming days will allay some of the concerns.
In conclusion, I request Kenyans to take a moment today to reflect on our journey as a country so far. Of what value is a powerful office if its pursuit must cost lives and tear the country apart every five years? The Bible tells us, in the book of Mathew 5.19 that “if your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of the body than for your whole body to be thrown in hell.” I believe it is time to gather the courage and gouge this problematic institution from our system, lest it lead us into the abys
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What a nosebleed.
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Kichwa's a really devoted Raila worshipper.. enough to rival Pundit's worship of Ruto.
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Why are you name calling. Why does my support for Raila or Pundit's support for Ruto be reduced to worshipping as if we do not know GOD. Stop acting like you know it all when you are all over the place.
Kichwa's a really devoted Raila worshipper.. enough to rival Pundit's worship of Ruto.
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You invented the bashing here for praising Ruto. Just because you're now the worshipper will not make us drop the matter.
Why are you name calling. Why does my support for Raila or Pundit's support for Ruto be reduced to worshipping as if we do not know GOD. Stop acting like you know it all when you are all over the place.
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Stop being petty-what do you really think you achieve by calling me a worshipper-do not turn this into dot.com. Everybody can haul insults. discuss the merits.
You invented the bashing here for praising Ruto. Just because you're now the worshipper will not make us drop the matter.
Why are you name calling. Why does my support for Raila or Pundit's support for Ruto be reduced to worshipping as if we do not know GOD. Stop acting like you know it all when you are all over the place.
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You told us Uhuru is a lazy drunkard and a crack addict, that he and Ruto do nothing but loot. Raila would cleanse out the mess. Today you are okay with all that because your hero Raila joined the party. That's all good but at least spare us the reform line it's too cheap... cos this is not dotcom.
This is all about stopping Ruto with the motorcade as a bonus.
Stop being petty-what do you really think you achieve by calling me a worshipper-do not turn this into dot.com. Everybody can haul insults. discuss the merits.
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Kichwa Raila's "inclusion" strategy is very smart and will likely derail Ruto. Smart move. I'm just not fooled by the packaging.
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Yeah that is all there is here - the problem nobody trust raila - I think ceremonial PM (elevated Duale - Majority Leader) is okay - as long as he can be fired by PORK - we need somebody in executive who can sit in parliament and answer questions - right now Duale has to do it informally.
Whoever will wield executive authority has to be elected by universal suffrage; That I think is not negotiable. Kenyans won't accept a bunch of MPigs to elect executive PORK or PM.
Kichwa Raila's "inclusion" strategy is very smart and will likely derail Ruto. Smart move. I'm just not fooled by the packaging.
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Ouru is still all that. Raila is a former PM who was denied his retirement package because of politics. Moi and Kibaki are getting their security and pension from the government. Since the handshake Raila's security has been restored. I do not know if the arrears his pension has been given to him. Why is this corruption and not Moi's and Kibaki's. Raila's supporters pay taxes too. The argument that Raila should be cleaner than the other side is silly.
You told us Uhuru is a lazy drunkard and a crack addict, that he and Ruto do nothing but loot. Raila would cleanse out the mess. Today you are okay with all that because your hero Raila joined the party. That's all good but at least spare us the reform line it's too cheap... cos this is not dotcom.
This is all about stopping Ruto with the motorcade as a bonus.
Stop being petty-what do you really think you achieve by calling me a worshipper-do not turn this into dot.com. Everybody can haul insults. discuss the merits.
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How can you talk about universal suffrage if you cannot even open the server. Universal suffrage without free and fair elections does not mean anything.
Yeah that is all there is here - the problem nobody trust raila - I think ceremonial PM (elevated Duale - Majority Leader) is okay - as long as he can be fired by PORK - we need somebody in executive who can sit in parliament and answer questions - right now Duale has to do it informally.
Whoever will wield executive authority has to be elected by universal suffrage; That I think is not negotiable. Kenyans won't accept a bunch of MPigs to elect executive PORK or PM.
Kichwa Raila's "inclusion" strategy is very smart and will likely derail Ruto. Smart move. I'm just not fooled by the packaging.
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Which servers are shut. 2018 August presidential election was invalidated but back ups of ballot/servers/etc are being securely kept for next 3yrs as law requires. You can always petition the court to order IEBC to open any of them including ballot boxes. Of course a new election was held and UhuRuto won by 98%.
Our elections are certainly become more freer and fairer. Besides parliamentary race mirrors presidential election. Jubilee would still have elected Duale as the PM.
How can you talk about universal suffrage if you cannot even open the server. Universal suffrage without free and fair elections does not mean anything.
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Yeah that's the part the "inclusion" crew doesn't get. Duale et al would be PM and DPM in an all-inclusive Jubilee. ODM would still be in the opposition. Unless they mean the loser becomes the PM... ODM is pushing to restore the old constitution which was a parliamentary system with MPs as Ministers and shadow cabinet.
Which servers are shut. 2018 August presidential election was invalidated but back ups of ballot/servers/etc are being securely kept for next 3yrs as law requires. You can always petition the court to order IEBC to open any of them including ballot boxes. Of course a new election was held and UhuRuto won by 98%.
Our elections are certainly become more freer and fairer. Besides parliamentary race mirrors presidential election. Jubilee would still have elected Duale as the PM.
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Until there is substantive law enforcement in Kenya, she will remain where she is. Progress will be elusive. the Political class will continue to muzzle every dissent to their benefit while Everyone else gets crumbs.
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Kizungu mingi for nothing, just open the damn server. You know what I am talking about.
Which servers are shut. 2018 August presidential election was invalidated but back ups of ballot/servers/etc are being securely kept for next 3yrs as law requires. You can always petition the court to order IEBC to open any of them including ballot boxes. Of course a new election was held and UhuRuto won by 98%.
Our elections are certainly become more freer and fairer. Besides parliamentary race mirrors presidential election. Jubilee would still have elected Duale as the PM.
How can you talk about universal suffrage if you cannot even open the server. Universal suffrage without free and fair elections does not mean anything.
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Kichwa, given the present parliamentary numbers how would an inclusive executive - PM/DPM - stop ODM from wallowing in the backbench. Uhuruto would just have more carrots to drain Raila team. Since even Raila acknowledges in the op-ed you shared that MP election was legit. There is no arrangement to include the opposition in government without introducing a sham democracy. Absconding checks and accountability role of parliament.
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That's true and that is why the water must be muddied so that it is hard to define government and opposition. I think Raila should demand the position of chief minister as payment of his contribution to the peace dividend. The electoral cheating and the tones of corruption money running around has created an atmosphere where the western style democratic system cannot work. I think Kenya has to reach a rock bottom before people can sit at the table and talk about future. However, so long as the likes of Ruto still have tones of money to buy people, you cannot have serious talks about the future of this country. Hopefully between now and 2022 things happen that will make people pause and think clearly.
Until there is substantive law enforcement in Kenya, she will remain where she is. Progress will be elusive. the Political class will continue to muzzle every dissent to their benefit while Everyone else gets crumbs.
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How can you talk about universal suffrage if you cannot even open the server. Universal suffrage without free and fair elections does not mean anything.
Yep. Universal suffrage is history in Kenya. Probably has been since 2002. The August sham made me realize that even 2013 was also likely stolen. Of course they won in the boycotted October elections and had no problem sharing unrequested server information because it did not contradict the outcome.
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Yeah I know what you're talking - you're are talking about NASA infamous lame attempt to blame computers for their whooping last election. That we get. Of course the computers will have to wait a little longer when they can match human intelligence to come and defend themselves. Poor server!
Kizungu mingi for nothing, just open the damn server. You know what I am talking about.
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Lame attempt to re-write history. The only election that didn't reflect the will of the people was 2007. The rest been pretty high standard. We are talking word-class most expensive election with all gadgets - biometrics-, key-in data, scanned forms, thousands of agents, thousands of observers, public keeping an keen eye and very competitive elections featuring thousands of opponents - all eye-balling each other to the very last minute.The servers were not ran by river-road company - but French Gov owned Safran Morpho. That got to count for something and we paid big bucks for that.
There is nothing wrong with our elections. In act if NASA were asked what needed to be improved...they will have nothing to say...all corners all covered.
What we have here is sore losers like those hillary clinton folks who are still blaming rusia after being beaten by trump.
There is no need to invest more in our electoral process- it already damn expensive and we'll get marginal gains. Those who can't hack our tribal politics...will simply become history as they blame servers.
Yep. Universal suffrage is history in Kenya. Probably has been since 2002. The August sham made me realize that even 2013 was also likely stolen. Of course they won in the boycotted October elections and had no problem sharing unrequested server information because it did not contradict the outcome.
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Power concede nothing. If you think Raila waving a white flag of surrender will be interpreted as leverage; then you got to think again. Raila will only become relevant if Uhuru wants to play mischief in 2022 - by extending his tenure somehow. If that becomes a little too hot a potato for him - he'll simply let Ruto take over way before 2022.
That's true and that is why the water must be muddied so that it is hard to define government and opposition. I think Raila should demand the position of chief minister as payment of his contribution to the peace dividend. The electoral cheating and the tones of corruption money running around has created an atmosphere where the western style democratic system cannot work. I think Kenya has to reach a rock bottom before people can sit at the table and talk about future. However, so long as the likes of Ruto still have tones of money to buy people, you cannot have serious talks about the future of this country. Hopefully between now and 2022 things happen that will make people pause and think clearly.
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That is why I don't get when they say this will be all-inclusive - yeah more position mean more Duales within the party that win will get bigger position - but ultimately somebody will lose and they won't get PM or DPM. So today we can create PM in parliament - and Duale will win it. Obviously these positions (PMs) are good for second rate politicians..Wetangulas...but for likes of Raila or Ruto or Kalonzo who've been PM or VP or DP..only PORK (or whichever name) that will ultimate executive power will wake up them at night.
Yeah that's the part the "inclusion" crew doesn't get. Duale et al would be PM and DPM in an all-inclusive Jubilee. ODM would still be in the opposition. Unless they mean the loser becomes the PM... ODM is pushing to restore the old constitution which was a parliamentary system with MPs as Ministers and shadow cabinet.
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Lame attempt to re-write history. The only election that didn't reflect the will of the people was 2007. The rest been pretty high standard. We are talking word-class most expensive election with all gadgets - biometrics-, key-in data, scanned forms, thousands of agents, thousands of observers, public keeping an keen eye and very competitive elections featuring thousands of opponents - all eye-balling each other to the very last minute.The servers were not ran by river-road company - but French Gov owned Safran Morpho. That got to count for something and we paid big bucks for that.
There is nothing wrong with our elections. In act if NASA were asked what needed to be improved...they will have nothing to say...all corners all covered.
What we have here is sore losers like those hillary clinton folks who are still blaming rusia after being beaten by trump.
There is no need to invest more in our electoral process- it already damn expensive and we'll get marginal gains. Those who can't hack our tribal politics...will simply become history as they blame servers.
Yep. Universal suffrage is history in Kenya. Probably has been since 2002. The August sham made me realize that even 2013 was also likely stolen. Of course they won in the boycotted October elections and had no problem sharing unrequested server information because it did not contradict the outcome.
It's pointless having gadgets when the information wont be availed even upon a court order. The only thing you are telling me is you have still not read the SCOK ruling for August 8th. That, or the facts be damned if they get in the way of your narrative.
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You have been saying that for a long time-tell it the birds. I think we are past that.
Lame attempt to re-write history. The only election that didn't reflect the will of the people was 2007. The rest been pretty high standard. We are talking word-class most expensive election with all gadgets - biometrics-, key-in data, scanned forms, thousands of agents, thousands of observers, public keeping an keen eye and very competitive elections featuring thousands of opponents - all eye-balling each other to the very last minute.The servers were not ran by river-road company - but French Gov owned Safran Morpho. That got to count for something and we paid big bucks for that.
There is nothing wrong with our elections. In act if NASA were asked what needed to be improved...they will have nothing to say...all corners all covered.
What we have here is sore losers like those hillary clinton folks who are still blaming rusia after being beaten by trump.
There is no need to invest more in our electoral process- it already damn expensive and we'll get marginal gains. Those who can't hack our tribal politics...will simply become history as they blame servers.
Yep. Universal suffrage is history in Kenya. Probably has been since 2002. The August sham made me realize that even 2013 was also likely stolen. Of course they won in the boycotted October elections and had no problem sharing unrequested server information because it did not contradict the outcome.
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The idea is to create a powerful independent parliament which will not be intimidated by the executive branch. In order for this to happen, we need to create a wedge between the executive and the legislature so that we can stop the collusion which is denying us the dividends of a check and balance system.
One of the effects of handshake that is yet to be appreciated is that it may have started to create that wedge by blurring the lines between opposition and government in parliament while making the line between the legislature and executive branch much brighter. Mbadi's recent speech was actually doing that-trying to unite the legislatures against the executive by demonstrating to the parliament that the executive branch is their natural enemy and not the opposition.
The problem is that Ruto has infiltrated the current Mt. Kenya legislatures because he sponsored most of them. If we adopt the parliamentary system, it will therefore draw the lines between the parliament and the executive instead of between the opposition and the "party in power". This will also be a better tool to fight corruption and both the adversarial relationship between the executive branch and the legislature will make the judiciary stronger and more meaningful as the arbiter.
Kichwa, given the present parliamentary numbers how would an inclusive executive - PM/DPM - stop ODM from wallowing in the backbench. Uhuruto would just have more carrots to drain Raila team. Since even Raila acknowledges in the op-ed you shared that MP election was legit. There is no arrangement to include the opposition in government without introducing a sham democracy. Absconding checks and accountability role of parliament.
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I don't get how the parliamentary system amplifies the oversight authority of MPs. If Ministers are not MPs now - kina Matiang'i - is this not the proper separation? Contrast with old system where regional chiefs were the Ministers.
Sorry you don't make sense. Explain how the UK parliament is more effective than the US one. The US Congress - esp the House - is known to impeach swiftly. Unlike the UK House of Commons where the majority party rules and noone is ever impeached so long as they have more MPs.
The presidential system is the proper separation of powers and segregation of duty.
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In theory yes, the presidential system is the best checks and balances, but just as we have realized with many things, tribalism changes the implementation of governing systems imported from the west. Tribalism is often not factored in when these theories are being discussed. Who would have thought that the American successful checks and balances would be a total failure in Kenya. The parliamentary system will work because it will make the executive very weak. The powerful presidency is the tribal trophy that fuels tribalism. This is the reason why Kalenjins will oppose the Parliamentary system because Ruto the president sounds much powerful and more prestigious for bragging rights than Ruto the prime minister. Once you take away the power of the presidency then the legislature may begin to build their power around the parliament rather than from the presidency.
I don't get how the parliamentary system amplifies the oversight authority of MPs. If Ministers are not MPs now - kina Matiang'i - is this not the proper separation? Contrast with old system where regional chiefs were the Ministers.
Sorry you don't make sense. Explain how the UK parliament is more effective than the US one. The US Congress - esp the House - is known to impeach swiftly. Unlike the UK House of Commons where the majority party rules and noone is ever impeached so long as they have more MPs.
The presidential system is the proper separation of powers and segregation of duty.
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Kichwa upto 2010 we had a UK- or SA-esque system. After merging the state and government (governor general + PM) into a president of course we became semi-presidential or quasi-parliamentary. It's what we have always had except for the abuse of power, corruption and dictatorship like one-party rule. Legally Moi had to be the leader of the biggest party to be president before 1991. He had to balance or "include" all regional chiefs into the cabinet. Even in Nyanza and Central he had JJ Kamotho and Dalmas Otieno who were Kanu bigwigs to make up for lack of ground popularity - as Sec Gen & Vice Chair.
I am saying our problem - already noted - is impunity, incompetence and corruption. No system would work perfectly including the already tested and failed parliamentary system.
I support the parliamentary system for inclusion purposes. As purely propositioned by Kamket and Raila. The counties as they are - same reason. Regions were rejected due to their divisive nature especially for RV diaspora. But not now for the changes. They can't be done for Raila or Ruto or Uhuru. But for posterity.
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NARA quarrelsome 5 yr tenure made the PM-PORK thing very unpopular. And remember at that time still UhuRuto had worked their way to control the majority in parliament.
Now parliamentary system is just the highest bidder win - and it will become so disfunctionally and corrupt - it ought not to be tried. I mean we know our Mpigs. Which sane kenyans would hand the future of the country to those charlatans.
We have 50% plus 1 presidential system - that already guarantee the majority wins and whoever become PORK has to win a large constitutuency- but I am okay if this was made 63% - but that would entail so many rounds of elections :)
Kichwa upto 2010 we had a UK- or SA-esque system. After merging the state and government (governor general + PM) into a president of course we became semi-presidential or quasi-parliamentary. It's what we have always had except for the abuse of power, corruption and dictatorship like one-party rule. Legally Moi had to be the leader of the biggest party to be president before 1991. He had to balance or "include" all regional chiefs into the cabinet. Even in Nyanza and Central he had JJ Kamotho and Dalmas Otieno who were Kanu bigwigs to make up for lack of ground popularity - as Sec Gen & Vice Chair.
I am saying our problem - already noted - is impunity, incompetence and corruption. No system would work perfectly including the already tested and failed parliamentary system.
I support the parliamentary system for inclusion purposes. As purely propositioned by Kamket and Raila. The counties as they are - same reason. Regions were rejected due to their divisive nature especially for RV diaspora. But not now for the changes. They can't be done for Raila or Ruto or Uhuru. But for posterity.
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Executive PM ala UK or Israel. Not NARA makele hybrid. PM is new PORK while ceremonial PORK only rubberstamp - appoint judges, sign bills, etc with no real political power. Kenyans know they are voting for the party and its leader(s).
Kenyans are tribal and parliamentary ensures fair chance for Joho which is near impossible now. This is about equity. The biggest divider of Kenya is the feeling of marginalization by 2nd tier tribes... I voted No for this reason.
Of course nobody powerful especially Raila is really serious about referendum - except some gullible activists like Omtata - it's all a power play to mess Ruto. Handshake is Okoa Kenya 2.0.
We should try parliamentary, regional, etc in say 2035 - at least 25 years for the new system to be tested. For now I agree with Ruto it's time to deliver Uhuru Big 4... I hope he can beat the shenanigans without a lethal penalty.
NARA quarrelsome 5 yr tenure made the PM-PORK thing very unpopular. And remember at that time still UhuRuto had worked their way to control the majority in parliament.
Now parliamentary system is just the highest bidder win - and it will become so disfunctionally and corrupt - it ought not to be tried. I mean we know our Mpigs. Which sane kenyans would hand the future of the country to those charlatans.
We have 50% plus 1 presidential system - that already guarantee the majority wins and whoever become PORK has to win a large constitutuency- but I am okay if this was made 63% - but that would entail so many rounds of elections :)
Kichwa upto 2010 we had a UK- or SA-esque system. After merging the state and government (governor general + PM) into a president of course we became semi-presidential or quasi-parliamentary. It's what we have always had except for the abuse of power, corruption and dictatorship like one-party rule. Legally Moi had to be the leader of the biggest party to be president before 1991. He had to balance or "include" all regional chiefs into the cabinet. Even in Nyanza and Central he had JJ Kamotho and Dalmas Otieno who were Kanu bigwigs to make up for lack of ground popularity - as Sec Gen & Vice Chair.
I am saying our problem - already noted - is impunity, incompetence and corruption. No system would work perfectly including the already tested and failed parliamentary system.
I support the parliamentary system for inclusion purposes. As purely propositioned by Kamket and Raila. The counties as they are - same reason. Regions were rejected due to their divisive nature especially for RV diaspora. But not now for the changes. They can't be done for Raila or Ruto or Uhuru. But for posterity.
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It seems the handshake is Nirvhana. A magic wand. After the handshake is implemented Kenya will be the Garden of Eden. So it's more important than the constitution and all laws and manifestoes. According to Raila:
The nine-point agenda, which will now be implemented by a 14-member team unveiled last week, includes how to deal with ethnic antagonism, lack of national ethos, inclusivity, strengthening devolution, ending divisive elections, ensuring safety and security of Kenyans, ending corruption, and ensuring a shared prosperity.
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The power sharing issue must be settled first. If elections were free and fair then people would be willing to wait for 25 or 100 years. However, when elections are rigged and two tribes are bragging that they will rule for 100 years, the other tribes have to be out of their minds to sit around for 100 years to be marginalized, ridiculed and abused. That's a pipe dream.
Ouruto started this shenanigans of messing around with the electoral process and they have to deal with the backlash.
Under the first term of Ouruto, the opposition was was ridiculed, marginalization, abused and rigged out in the most brazen, in-your-face, arrogant way possible. There is really nothing left in the opposition and therefore nobody wants to be there.
The current system was designed to work with a strong opposition. However under the arrogant Ouruto first term coupled with their highly trifellow tribesmen has made the opposition unattractive by designing and defending a two tribe sytem of government and marginalizing everybody else.
Everybody now wants to be in government. We therefore have to find a way to make the opposition feel that if they work hard they can win free an fair elections by reforming the electoral system. We also have to find a way to expand the government so that we do not have a government of two tribes like the first Ouruto term. Parliamentary system seems to be the answer.
Without some kind of inclusivity, you can talk about economic development until you turn blue or whatever color black people turn when they lose blood, and nobody will listen to you.
Executive PM ala UK or Israel. Not NARA makele hybrid. PM is new PORK while ceremonial PORK only rubberstamp - appoint judges, sign bills, etc with no real political power. Kenyans know they are voting for the party and its leader(s).
Kenyans are tribal and parliamentary ensures fair chance for Joho which is near impossible now. This is about equity. The biggest divider of Kenya is the feeling of marginalization by 2nd tier tribes... I voted No for this reason.
Of course nobody powerful especially Raila is really serious about referendum - except some gullible activists like Omtata - it's all a power play to mess Ruto. Handshake is Okoa Kenya 2.0.
We should try parliamentary, regional, etc in say 2035 - at least 25 years for the new system to be tested. For now I agree with Ruto it's time to deliver Uhuru Big 4... I hope he can beat the shenanigans without a lethal penalty.
NARA quarrelsome 5 yr tenure made the PM-PORK thing very unpopular. And remember at that time still UhuRuto had worked their way to control the majority in parliament.
Now parliamentary system is just the highest bidder win - and it will become so disfunctionally and corrupt - it ought not to be tried. I mean we know our Mpigs. Which sane kenyans would hand the future of the country to those charlatans.
We have 50% plus 1 presidential system - that already guarantee the majority wins and whoever become PORK has to win a large constitutuency- but I am okay if this was made 63% - but that would entail so many rounds of elections :)
Kichwa upto 2010 we had a UK- or SA-esque system. After merging the state and government (governor general + PM) into a president of course we became semi-presidential or quasi-parliamentary. It's what we have always had except for the abuse of power, corruption and dictatorship like one-party rule. Legally Moi had to be the leader of the biggest party to be president before 1991. He had to balance or "include" all regional chiefs into the cabinet. Even in Nyanza and Central he had JJ Kamotho and Dalmas Otieno who were Kanu bigwigs to make up for lack of ground popularity - as Sec Gen & Vice Chair.
I am saying our problem - already noted - is impunity, incompetence and corruption. No system would work perfectly including the already tested and failed parliamentary system.
I support the parliamentary system for inclusion purposes. As purely propositioned by Kamket and Raila. The counties as they are - same reason. Regions were rejected due to their divisive nature especially for RV diaspora. But not now for the changes. They can't be done for Raila or Ruto or Uhuru. But for posterity.
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I am with you Kichwa on parliamentary being better in a diverse polarized society. But Jubilee is the biggest party and I don't see it as Raila's intent to just change new title for Prime Minister Ruto. Kenyans are corrupt - the system of government will not stop Ruto or anyone from buying defectors or IEBC to win. I don't speak for Raila but I read only a determination to scuttle Jubilee and Ruto's plans.
Your hopes are good but don't save them in the wrong basket. As soon as realignments materialize don't be disappointed to see Raila back a new pure PORK all the way to the Hill. :D
This is power. The country be damned.
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You do not know Raila. You only know him from the massive propaganda machinery. Raila really means well for this country, otherwise he would not have toshad Kibaki, or shook hands with both Kibaki and Ouru to bring about peace. Some people even think he is weak because he always gives-in/sacrifices when he believes the country must come first. Moi jailed him for 10 years and yet he joined him in Kanu and went to see him two weeks ago. The guy genuinely cares for this country.
The parliamentary system is not Raila's brainchild. The Bomas draft which involved many experts and which was drafter after talking to many people, also recommended the parliamentary system.
The presidential system has been given a chance and it failed. It failed because it adds fuel to the already charged tribal Kenya. The Jubilee "majority" is a product of the presidential system. Once you remove the imperial presidency there will be no need for Jubilee because it is not held together by ideology but with the need of Kikuyus and Kalenjins to stick together so that they can dominate the executive branch and the parliament. Once you remove that incentive then the MP's will become more independent and will start being loyal to their local needs and to ideas. Also, when the people have confidence in the electoral process then the opposition can work hard to be in the majority in the next elections. Even if jubilee is still the majority, they can pick a prime minister from any tribe. Under the current imperial presidential system, Jubilee can only run a Kalenjin or a Kikuyu as president.
I am with you Kichwa on parliamentary being better in a diverse polarized society. But Jubilee is the biggest party and I don't see it as Raila's intent to just change new title for Prime Minister Ruto. Kenyans are corrupt - the system of government will not stop Ruto or anyone from buying defectors or IEBC to win. I don't speak for Raila but I read only a determination to scuttle Jubilee and Ruto's plans.
Your hopes are good but don't save them in the wrong basket. As soon as realignments materialize don't be disappointed to see Raila back a new pure PORK all the way to the Hill. :D
This is power. The country be damned.
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Kichwa would be very disappointed once the Executive PM turns out to be more corrupt and incompetent than ever. Moi was a PM for all intents and purposes.
Corruption, impunity incompetence - these vices are cultural and are not simply caused by the governance structure. You said it yourself: the magical US system has fallen flat in Kenya.
Look at the other thread where bitmask laments Keter's and Amina's incompetence. Blackouts and sky-priced power are the norm yet the CS continues to smile for the cameras with impunity. Not even ODM is demanding his firing! Mwakwere was equally incompetent despite being an MP and accountable to Parliament. Nothing to do with the structure but our culture of tolerating incompetence and not punishing the government for it.
In the UK, after Carribean immigrants demod over "mistreatment" by the government, the Home Secretary quit. Parliament was not gona fire her with the Conservative majority. She quit out of principle - an alien concept in Kenya.
Therefore, Kichwa, you did the full circle over tribalism in our politics. You will do the same over "inclusion" and the governance structure. A few people will be all smiles for being included as PM or DPM or Senior Minister... the troubles that plague Sub Sahara are much deeper and not so simple to solve.
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I agree but we have to keep looking for answers. I agreed that politics in Kenya is tribal but that we have to appeal to the voters minds too. I agreed with Moon-ki that Kenya is not ready for people's revolution, but I thought we should induce it instead of throwing our hands up. I agreed that the courts could be biased but I thought we should go to court anyway and we did win the first round. I endorsed boycott of the elections, the swearing in of Raila and the handshake. They may appear contradictory but I see them as progressive and persistent methods of struggle. I also agree that tribalism may yet again derail the parliamentary system but I think we have no choice but to try it rather than stick with the presidential system which has failed and which we know only exacerbates tribalism. I do not believe in giving up and throwing up our arms like Ouru did with corruption is an option.
Kichwa would be very disappointed once the Executive PM turns out to be more corrupt and incompetent than ever. Moi was a PM for all intents and purposes.
Corruption, impunity incompetence - these vices are cultural and are not simply caused by the governance structure. You said it yourself: the magical US system has fallen flat in Kenya.
Look at the other thread where bitmask laments Keter's and Amina's incompetence. Blackouts and sky-priced power are the norm yet the CS continues to smile for the cameras with impunity. Not even ODM is demanding his firing! Mwakwere was equally incompetent despite being an MP and accountable to Parliament. Nothing to do with the structure but our culture of tolerating incompetence and not punishing the government for it.
In the UK, after Carribean immigrants demod over "mistreatment" by the government, the Home Secretary quit. Parliament was not gona fire her with the Conservative majority. She quit out of principle - an alien concept in Kenya.
Therefore, Kichwa, you did the full circle over tribalism in our politics. You will do the same over "inclusion" and the governance structure. A few people will be all smiles for being included as PM or DPM or Senior Minister... the troubles that plague Sub Sahara are much deeper and not so simple to solve.
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All previous and current attempt to re-write the constitution has been nothing more than power games. Right now all the attempt at changing constitution is targeted at WSR - who is the heir apparent. The idea is to dilute his "power" in 2022 by adding PM and other "NUSU Mkate" ideas.
If Ruto was to drop dead now - all the clamor for constitutional change will dissipate as everyone now get a shot at PORK. Right now they now they cannot beat Jubilee machinery that has Ruto super-charging to 2022.
As regard Raila modus operandi - it obvious - when he has no chance to PORK - he goes for PM. That he did in 2003-2005 when Kibaki was PORK but in 2010 when he thought he was the man to beat in 2013 - he wanted a strong presidential systems. That system of course benefited UhuRuto.
Now Raila has realized he can't win PORK - so he's probably thinking of becoming a kingmaker in exchange of a PM position. He knows GEMA won't vote him. Kambas won't. Luhyas won't. Kalenjin won't. All due to MOU and historical reasons. So his realistic chance is to prop somebody and get PM - executive PM if possible.
And that is all there is to this...the rest is details.
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Of course it's all about Ruto. I think you're wrong thinking Raila really wants PM. He wants to drive a wedge and break up Jubilee. One wedge with GEMA the other one with smaller tribes. The fact that Ruto was kept in the dark about Handshake talks means he has is succeeding.
All previous and current attempt to re-write the constitution has been nothing more than power games. Right now all the attempt at changing constitution is targeted at WSR - who is the heir apparent. The idea is to dilute his "power" in 2022 by adding PM and other "NUSU Mkate" ideas.
If Ruto was to drop dead now - all the clamor for constitutional change will dissipate as everyone now get a shot at PORK. Right now they now they cannot beat Jubilee machinery that has Ruto super-charging to 2022.
As regard Raila modus operandi - it obvious - when he has no chance to PORK - he goes for PM. That he did in 2003-2005 when Kibaki was PORK but in 2010 when he thought he was the man to beat in 2013 - he wanted a strong presidential systems. That system of course benefited UhuRuto.
Now Raila has realized he can't win PORK - so he's probably thinking of becoming a kingmaker in exchange of a PM position. He knows GEMA won't vote him. Kambas won't. Luhyas won't. Kalenjin won't. All due to MOU and historical reasons. So his realistic chance is to prop somebody and get PM - executive PM if possible.
And that is all there is to this...the rest is details.
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Robina - I think the man to watch is Uhuru - and I doubt that 1) he kept Ruto in the dark 2) That he intend to torpedo Jubilee for some Raila wild ideas. It obvious to me that Uhuru is playing Raila. He has basically told Ruto and Jubileee that Raila's handshake is a personal project of his - a side job of handling & managing Raila - and has basically protected the gov from NUSU-Mkate. That doesn't tell you of some tight coupling.
Uhuru will engage and keep Raila busy with 'fighting tribalism, corruption" while his gov will focus on governing. That is genius. And all Raila get is a motorcade with a siren...and a council of elders to keep him busy.
Obviously if Raila had some real brains he'd have insisted on some minumum gurantees from Uhuru - at minumum an "Act of Parliament" to underpin the hand-shake and give it legal status.
As of now you've 2 strangers appointing 14 strangers in a strange secretariat that will probably be funded by donors :) . At the minimum Raila should demand Uhuru issued an executive order that gazette and establish this 'secretariat'.
Of course it's all about Ruto. I think you're wrong thinking Raila really wants PM. He wants to drive a wedge and break up Jubilee. One wedge with GEMA the other one with smaller tribes. The fact that Ruto was kept in the dark about Handshake talks means he has is succeeding.
All previous and current attempt to re-write the constitution has been nothing more than power games. Right now all the attempt at changing constitution is targeted at WSR - who is the heir apparent. The idea is to dilute his "power" in 2022 by adding PM and other "NUSU Mkate" ideas.
If Ruto was to drop dead now - all the clamor for constitutional change will dissipate as everyone now get a shot at PORK. Right now they now they cannot beat Jubilee machinery that has Ruto super-charging to 2022.
As regard Raila modus operandi - it obvious - when he has no chance to PORK - he goes for PM. That he did in 2003-2005 when Kibaki was PORK but in 2010 when he thought he was the man to beat in 2013 - he wanted a strong presidential systems. That system of course benefited UhuRuto.
Now Raila has realized he can't win PORK - so he's probably thinking of becoming a kingmaker in exchange of a PM position. He knows GEMA won't vote him. Kambas won't. Luhyas won't. Kalenjin won't. All due to MOU and historical reasons. So his realistic chance is to prop somebody and get PM - executive PM if possible.
And that is all there is to this...the rest is details.
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Uhuru will engage and keep Raila busy with 'fighting tribalism, corruption" while his gov will focus on governing. That is genius. And all Raila get is a motorcade with a siren...and a council of elders to keep him busy.
The hustler's acolytes are not buying the genius.
Jubilee-allied MPs have accused opposition leader Raila Odinga of a spirited attempt to drive a wedge between President Uhuru Kenyatta and his Deputy William Ruto.
The leaders said Mr Odinga, in his March 9 handshake with President Kenyatta — which he on Tuesday said could only come to fruition if the Constitution is amended to restructure the Presidency — had a sinister agenda to divide the Jubilee Party from within.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Raila-pact-ruining-Uhuru-Ruto-amity--lament-Jubilee-MPs-/1064-4553724-u886q5/index.html
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That too is genius. Raila think he can over-leverage the handshake to make it MOU with constitutional reform as an imperative. That is not part of the deal. His deal with Uhuru is personal and should be kept that way - otherwise he'll eat Ruto lunch (50-50 deal). Ruto will want to keep it to just two guys having tea and shaking hands. Ruto team are going to watch Raila and will only concede to Raila getting to gov as a foreign envoy for South Sudan or such outpost.
In short Ruto job btw now and 2022 is to make sure Uhuru keep his personal project personal. Right now two strangers have met and appointed 14 strangers. Without any law or executive order or without any gazette notice. That is some genius. The next thing is to ask the pesky and bored Americans & Britons to finance the Council of Elders..so they can go around "preaching peace".
The hustler's acolytes are not buying the genius.
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Pundit. You are putting a brave face but you are not fooling me. You never saw this coming. Lets make this tribal and dirty. Kikuyus owed luos the Kenyattaa presidency, the Kibaki tosha and also the 2007 kibaki second term which was stolen. Kalenjins should therefore stand on line for Kikuyu to pay their earlier political debts before crying that Ouru owes them. Ouru cannot walk out of the handshake so easily because it is really not up to him alone. Just because a few Mt. Kenya Mps that Ruto paid are saying that the entire Mt. Kenya is behind Ruto should not fool you. I do not know if Raila will run or not in 2022 but if the elections are free and fair, the Mt. Kenya vote would be split once Ouru is not on ballot and Ruto will lose. Ruto peaked too early and I can only see him loose ground as time goes by. Ruto should make sure Ouru does not endorse the referendum because if he does, then Ruto will have to campaign against ouru and that would be like walking on a rope. Ruto needs Ouru but Ouru does not need him. Ouru on the other hand needs Raila to finish his term and have a shot at a legacy. Ouru must move away from Ruto for the "greater good" of Kenya to even have a semblance of a legacy.
That too is genius. Raila think he can over-leverage the handshake to make it MOU with constitutional reform as an imperative. That is not part of the deal. His deal with Uhuru is personal and should be kept that way - otherwise he'll eat Ruto lunch (50-50 deal). Ruto will want to keep it to just two guys having tea and shaking hands. Ruto team are going to watch Raila and will only concede to Raila getting to gov as a foreign envoy for South Sudan or such outpost.
In short Ruto job btw now and 2022 is to make sure Uhuru keep his personal project personal. Right now two strangers have met and appointed 14 strangers. Without any law or executive order or without any gazette notice. That is some genius. The next thing is to ask the pesky and bored Americans & Britons to finance the Council of Elders..so they can go around "preaching peace".
The hustler's acolytes are not buying the genius.
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Raila meets the Nairobi Business Community
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group (https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group)
(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/friday/thumb_jujytedmjavar95af5f7c98cfff.jpg)(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4556862/medRes/1969756/-/yddtwyz/-/nbc.jpg)
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Mudavadi supports push for changing laws
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280068/mudavadi-supports-push-for-changing-laws (https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280068/mudavadi-supports-push-for-changing-laws)
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That is all good - however everytime Luos have attempted an alliance with GEMA - it never last enough to be consummated - you can see how Jaramogi & Kenyatta fought barely a year into 1964 - and by 66 it was full scale war. Then Moi comes and clock 12yrs - and eventually become PORK - and keep GEMA for 10yrs before they decided they wanted to go for it. GEMA+Luos attempt another short-lived alliance in 90s in FORD and that never lasted 1yr - and it was dead. Then there was various attempt through 90s till 2002 when Moi picked Uhuru - and Raila had to pick Kibaki. And the before we could say NARC - there was full blown war - and by 2007 it was a civil war. And comes UhuRuto - and they've clocked 6 yrs working mostly like co-joined twins.Why would someone sane like GEMA want to destroy such a relationship? For Raila :). I mean it won't even last this year before Raila get tired being subservient to GEMA :). He is really trying to control his impluses and has bend backward Uhuru is lost for orifices!
I don't see Uhuru allowing referendum. All the noise about referendum have coming from Raila and his NASA groupies.
Why would Uhuru go for something that he has :) He is going to be powerful in Ruto gov and doesn't need to start a war with Ruto & RV to get what he wants - I mean GEMA would be so foolish to split jubilee and end up having to choice btw Raila and Ruto :) . I mean even if Uhuru was to be ambitious and go for executive PORK from parliamentary systems - what gurantee does he have that GEMA would have more MPS than say Ruto or Raila :).
The smart thing for Uhuru is to go for Jubilee Supreme Leader - and appoint a trustworthy GEMA DPORK to deputize Ruto. That way he secures his personal (supreme leader) and community interest(DPORK who takes over Uhuru). The stupid thing to go to war with Ruto - with Raila as his right hand man :D :D That would win him darwin award!
Pundit. You are putting a brave face but you are not fooling me. You never saw this coming. Lets make this tribal and dirty. Kikuyus owed luos the Kenyattaa presidency, the Kibaki tosha and also the 2007 kibaki second term which was stolen. Kalenjins should therefore stand on line for Kikuyu to pay their earlier political debts before crying that Ouru owes them. Ouru cannot walk out of the handshake so easily because it is really not up to him alone. Just because a few Mt. Kenya Mps that Ruto paid are saying that the entire Mt. Kenya is behind Ruto should not fool you. I do not know if Raila will run or not in 2022 but if the elections are free and fair, the Mt. Kenya vote would be split once Ouru is not on ballot and Ruto will lose. Ruto peaked too early and I can only see him loose ground as time goes by. Ruto should make sure Ouru does not endorse the referendum because if he does, then Ruto will have to campaign against ouru and that would be like walking on a rope. Ruto needs Ouru but Ouru does not need him. Ouru on the other hand needs Raila to finish his term and have a shot at a legacy. Ouru must move away from Ruto for the "greater good" of Kenya to even have a semblance of a legacy.
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That is how not to be taken seriously. Remind me when Raila was PM and was attending every Kiambu funeral :) Why would you meet Moses Kuria thugs :)
Raila meets the Nairobi Business Community
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group (https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group)
(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/friday/thumb_jujytedmjavar95af5f7c98cfff.jpg)(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4556862/medRes/1969756/-/yddtwyz/-/nbc.jpg)
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Raila is a jilted lover with nothing to lose. Ruto messed him in 02, 13 and 17 and must now face the wrath. It's easier to burn things down than to build them up.
In 08-13 Raila tried to inherit some GEMA - esp Meru and Nyeri-Nyandarua Kibaki-Matiba faultlines. Even Ruto fell for the Meru allure and Kindiki, Linturi were senior guests in UDM. Of course once Uhuru created TNA it was a pipe dream for both.
Today it's simpler task: hive off GEMA from Ruto. Luo-Kalenjin fight for GEMA.
That is how not to be taken seriously. Remind me when Raila was PM and was attending every Kiambu funeral :) Why would you meet Moses Kuria thugs :)
Raila meets the Nairobi Business Community
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group (https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001280100/raila-extends-olive-branch-to-nairobi-business-group)
(https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/images/friday/thumb_jujytedmjavar95af5f7c98cfff.jpg)(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4556862/medRes/1969756/-/yddtwyz/-/nbc.jpg)
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Uhuru has gema under lock and key. But he has to retire in 2022. If he wants PM position - then he has another referendum coming - which will tear his gov apart because Ruto is not going to allow Uhuru to dillute PORK when it's Ruto's turn.
Raila is a jilted lover with nothing to lose. Ruto messed him in 02, 13 and 17 and must now face the wrath. It's easier to burn things down than to build them up.
In 08-13 Raila tried to inherit some GEMA - esp Meru and Nyeri-Nyandarua Kibaki-Matiba faultlines. Even Ruto fell for the Meru allure and Kindiki, Linturi were senior guests in UDM. Of course once Uhuru created TNA it was a pipe dream for both.
Today it's simpler task: hive off GEMA from Ruto.
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We know Kalenjin are sober and make better partners for GEMA and the Luos. It's why Moi could rule a quarter century without plunging the country into war. If you go to a bar in Nairobi you can see the dynamic: Kikuyu and Luo men are the loudest. Now GEMA have more resources in money, numbers, mobilizing. They are also more cohesive - as in you have GEMA and non-GEMA politics which makes them more ally than competitor.
GEMA are clever and logical. We read in Miguna's book how Raila and Ruto would beat them in the street then get beaten in the boardroom. Kibaki knew Raila was a poor negotiator and would insist the talks be restricted to the principals - to keep out Ruto and Miguna. At Serena one could tell who was better in the boardroom game, just from the line up.
You have told us many things Pundit, except why have GEMA accepted the Handshake? Swala nyeti hili.
That is all good - however everytime Luos have attempted an alliance with GEMA - it never last enough to be consummated - you can see how Jaramogi & Kenyatta fought barely a year into 1964 - and by 66 it was full scale war. Then Moi comes and clock 12yrs - and eventually become PORK - and keep GEMA for 10yrs before they decided they wanted to go for it. GEMA+Luos attempt another short-lived alliance in 90s in FORD and that never lasted 1yr - and it was dead. Then there was various attempt through 90s till 2002 when Moi picked Uhuru - and Raila had to pick Kibaki. And the before we could say NARC - there was full blown war - and by 2007 it was a civil war. And comes UhuRuto - and they've clocked 6 yrs working mostly like co-joined twins.Why would someone sane like GEMA want to destroy such a relationship? For Raila :). I mean it won't even last this year before Raila get tired being subservient to GEMA :). He is really trying to control his impluses and has bend backward Uhuru is lost for orifices!
I don't see Uhuru allowing referendum. All the noise about referendum have coming from Raila and his NASA groupies.
Why would Uhuru go for something that he has :) He is going to be powerful in Ruto gov and doesn't need to start a war with Ruto & RV to get what he wants - I mean GEMA would be so foolish to split jubilee and end up having to choice btw Raila and Ruto :) . I mean even if Uhuru was to be ambitious and go for executive PORK from parliamentary systems - what gurantee does he have that GEMA would have more MPS than say Ruto or Raila :).
The smart thing for Uhuru is to go for Jubilee Supreme Leader - and appoint a trustworthy GEMA DPORK to deputize Ruto. That way he secures his personal (supreme leader) and community interest(DPORK who takes over Uhuru). The stupid thing to go to war with Ruto - with Raila as his right hand man :D :D That would win him darwin award!
Pundit. You are putting a brave face but you are not fooling me. You never saw this coming. Lets make this tribal and dirty. Kikuyus owed luos the Kenyattaa presidency, the Kibaki tosha and also the 2007 kibaki second term which was stolen. Kalenjins should therefore stand on line for Kikuyu to pay their earlier political debts before crying that Ouru owes them. Ouru cannot walk out of the handshake so easily because it is really not up to him alone. Just because a few Mt. Kenya Mps that Ruto paid are saying that the entire Mt. Kenya is behind Ruto should not fool you. I do not know if Raila will run or not in 2022 but if the elections are free and fair, the Mt. Kenya vote would be split once Ouru is not on ballot and Ruto will lose. Ruto peaked too early and I can only see him loose ground as time goes by. Ruto should make sure Ouru does not endorse the referendum because if he does, then Ruto will have to campaign against ouru and that would be like walking on a rope. Ruto needs Ouru but Ouru does not need him. Ouru on the other hand needs Raila to finish his term and have a shot at a legacy. Ouru must move away from Ruto for the "greater good" of Kenya to even have a semblance of a legacy.
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GEMA find itself in a fix - they don't have a successor to Uhuru who can unite them and negotiate for them post-uhuru. Uhuru has to decide if he is going to attempt to extend his stay in power - which I think will find favour esp among his inner core (Murathe has alluded to this) or he'll prop a successor and do it soon. Whatever Uhuru told Kiunjuri might had been chilling.So for GEMA - they either wait for Uhuru or someone goes rogue! I don't see anybody within GEMA taking on Uhuru - not with his money+ gov. So basically Uhuru - a lazy entitled boy who cannot survive a day in politics against Raila or Ruto is playing a dangerous game where GEMA fate - and they may end up not with DPORK.
And yet if Uhuru was to annoint a successor - he would lame-duck so quickly.
You have told us many things Pundit, except why have GEMA accepted the Handshake? Swala nyeti hili.
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How did lazy entitled boy become PORK - by aligning himself so easily to Moi and Kibaki while Ruto has worked so hard to get Kalenjin? Ruto has been Uhuru KYM for years since Kanu sorry I don't get the Ruto cleverness.
Ruto suffers hubris - that he's smarter than everyone :) - thinking GEMA will allow him to build a huge non-GEMA alliance and make them optional. So they will unleash Raila to scuttle Ruto’s non-GEMA support - and milk co-presidency out of Ruto. How does one get to be co-president then offer a mere VP in turn? Is Supreme Leader a real position or a joke?
You're right Uhuru is using Raila - but for his own / GEMA's purposes - not to help Ruto.
GEMA find itself in a fix - they don't have a successor to Uhuru who can unite them and negotiate for them post-uhuru. Uhuru has to decide if he is going to attempt to extend his stay in power - which I think will find favour esp among his inner core (Murathe has alluded to this) or he'll prop a successor and do it soon. Whatever Uhuru told Kiunjuri might had been chilling.So for GEMA - they either wait for Uhuru or someone goes rogue! I don't see anybody within GEMA taking on Uhuru - not with his money+ gov. So basically Uhuru - a lazy entitled boy who cannot survive a day in politics against Raila or Ruto is playing a dangerous game where GEMA fate - and they may end up not with DPORK.
And yet if Uhuru was to annoint a successor - he would lame-duck so quickly.
You have told us many things Pundit, except why have GEMA accepted the Handshake? Swala nyeti hili.
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Obviously now he is PORK and powerful - so let not worry about his background. Anyway I think the deal is still 50-50. Uhuru and his lankey get to pick half- and - Ruto half. Obviously Ruto is not going to sleep until he has strong base. Raila in my view is kaput and now is reduced to Luo leader.
How did lazy entitled boy become PORK - by aligning himself so easily to Moi and Kibaki while Ruto has worked so hard to get Kalenjin? Ruto has been Uhuru KYM for years since Kanu sorry I don't get the Ruto cleverness.
Ruto suffers hubris - that he's smarter than everyone :) - thinking GEMA will allow him to build a huge non-GEMA alliance and make them optional. So they will unleash Raila to scuttle Ruto’s non-GEMA support - and milk co-presidency out of Ruto. How does one get to be co-president then offer a mere VP in turn? Is Supreme Leader a real position or a joke?
You're right Uhuru is using Raila - but for his own / GEMA's purposes - not to help Ruto.
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Just know the bigger the Ruto non-GEMA & non-Kalenjin outreach, the more rattled GEMA will hedge. Power concede nothing right? Ruto was co-president because Jubilee was a coalition... and TNA could not win alone. GEMA will build coalitions too and Ruto cannot be smart alec... offering them amorphous Supreme Leader in a single party... and claiming noone but he can expand alliances. If he is ready for power-sharing isn't PM a good deal? DPORK is mere VP that will be ignored.
Obviously now he is PORK and powerful - so let not worry about his background. Anyway I think the deal is still 50-50. Uhuru and his lankey get to pick half- and - Ruto half. Obviously Ruto is not going to sleep until he has strong base. Raila in my view is kaput and now is reduced to Luo leader.
How did lazy entitled boy become PORK - by aligning himself so easily to Moi and Kibaki while Ruto has worked so hard to get Kalenjin? Ruto has been Uhuru KYM for years since Kanu sorry I don't get the Ruto cleverness.
Ruto suffers hubris - that he's smarter than everyone :) - thinking GEMA will allow him to build a huge non-GEMA alliance and make them optional. So they will unleash Raila to scuttle Ruto’s non-GEMA support - and milk co-presidency out of Ruto. How does one get to be co-president then offer a mere VP in turn? Is Supreme Leader a real position or a joke?
You're right Uhuru is using Raila - but for his own / GEMA's purposes - not to help Ruto.
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Looking at Ruto and the Rift Valley MPs seems the handshake would easily become a real threat were it not Raila's cannibalization tendencies. If Raila is facilitated to 'build the bridges' he will be checking Ruto's chokehold on the 'others' who can guarantee him 2022 without GEMA and Luo/Luhya vote. The implosion will be messy, noisy - listening to Uhuru during Matiba's funeral, Ruto's pale face during Kipchoim funeral, Sonko's undermining, Munya's inclusion in govt, Ngunjiri Wambugu/Ndindi Nyoro rising chorus of hatuna deni, Moi's snub do not look good.
With no economic respite in sight and Ruto's corruption tag, GEMA's support for Ruto is fading very fast. Ruto will become the Raila hate figure - Kimundu- sooner than I imagined.
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Ruto's dream is to be arap Nyayo in today's multiparty Kenya. A position last held Emilio Kibaki. Tough luck.
Looking at Ruto and the Rift Valley MPs seems the handshake would easily become a real threat were it not Raila's cannibalization tendencies. If Raila is facilitated to 'build the bridges' he will be checking Ruto's chokehold on the 'others' who can guarantee him 2022 without GEMA and Luo/Luhya vote. The implosion will be messy, noisy - listening to Uhuru during Matiba's funeral, Ruto's pale face during Kipchoim funeral, Sonko's undermining, Munya's inclusion in govt, Ngunjiri Wambugu/Ndindi Nyoro rising chorus of hatuna deni, Moi's snub do not look good.
With no economic respite in sight and Ruto's corruption tag, GEMA's support for Ruto is fading very fast. Ruto will become the Raila hate figure - Kimundu- sooner than I imagined.
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I would be thoroughly surprised if the hustler has support on the ground outside his Kalenjin enclave. Being kingmaker and the king are different animals. You can be a kingmaker just by being able to rally a specific group. King requires some heft in a more diverse base. Railia has that with a proven track record. Kamwana might also have had that in 2013.
Uhuruto is history and it's happening in plain sight. However it will take some of us a bit longer to adjust to that reality.
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Why the clamour to introduce PM when Ruto is about to become PORK? At end of the day it's about trust - PM and PORK cannot work - two center of powers cannot - GEMA have to accepted DPORK and Uhuru the supreme leader of Jubilee. Anything else Jubilee will cannibalize each other.
Just know the bigger the Ruto non-GEMA & non-Kalenjin outreach, the more rattled GEMA will hedge. Power concede nothing right? Ruto was co-president because Jubilee was a coalition... and TNA could not win alone. GEMA will build coalitions too and Ruto cannot be smart alec... offering them amorphous Supreme Leader in a single party... and claiming noone but he can expand alliances. If he is ready for power-sharing isn't PM a good deal? DPORK is mere VP that will be ignored.
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Don't conflate your wishes with reality. Ruto in 2022 opinion conducted so far was leading by far. I know it's hard for Raila folks to imagine that anybody else can win votes - but wake up and smell the coffee.
I would be thoroughly surprised if the hustler has support on the ground outside his Kalenjin enclave. Being kingmaker and the king are different animals. You can be a kingmaker just by being able to rally a specific group. King requires some heft in a more diverse base. Railia has that with a proven track record. Kamwana might also have had that in 2013.
Uhuruto is history and it's happening in plain sight. However it will take some of us a bit longer to adjust to that reality.
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And then what. Then Ngunjiri miraculously win PORK in 2022. Uhuru is no fool and therefore you guys are just being taken to cleaners together with Raila. Few months from now - and the obvious will become obvious to some of you.
Looking at Ruto and the Rift Valley MPs seems the handshake would easily become a real threat were it not Raila's cannibalization tendencies. If Raila is facilitated to 'build the bridges' he will be checking Ruto's chokehold on the 'others' who can guarantee him 2022 without GEMA and Luo/Luhya vote. The implosion will be messy, noisy - listening to Uhuru during Matiba's funeral, Ruto's pale face during Kipchoim funeral, Sonko's undermining, Munya's inclusion in govt, Ngunjiri Wambugu/Ndindi Nyoro rising chorus of hatuna deni, Moi's snub do not look good.
With no economic respite in sight and Ruto's corruption tag, GEMA's support for Ruto is fading very fast. Ruto will become the Raila hate figure - Kimundu- sooner than I imagined.
-
As long as the choice is btw Ruto and Raila...then it no brainer..Ruto can already order the drapes for statehouse.
Looking at Ruto and the Rift Valley MPs seems the handshake would easily become a real threat were it not Raila's cannibalization tendencies. If Raila is facilitated to 'build the bridges' he will be checking Ruto's chokehold on the 'others' who can guarantee him 2022 without GEMA and Luo/Luhya vote. The implosion will be messy, noisy - listening to Uhuru during Matiba's funeral, Ruto's pale face during Kipchoim funeral, Sonko's undermining, Munya's inclusion in govt, Ngunjiri Wambugu/Ndindi Nyoro rising chorus of hatuna deni, Moi's snub do not look good.
With no economic respite in sight and Ruto's corruption tag, GEMA's support for Ruto is fading very fast. Ruto will become the Raila hate figure - Kimundu- sooner than I imagined.
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GEMA don't trust Ruto - smart - and seem to want some guarantee which DPORK or Supreme Leader isn't. Either it's a coalition or PM. Of course they are just entitled and greedy - but don't confuse them for fools. They are resourceful and can mess Ruto together with jilted Raila. The next best thing from a win for Raila is a Ruto loss. And that makes Uhuru mischief very easy.
Personally I think our politics need to mature into proper party affairs - ala ANC - where personalities take a back seat. Ruto would would therefore be held to some party ideals like GDP or universal education, not "GEMA" or such crap.
I guess we are eons from that. I hope Ruto wins this very tough battle.
Why the clamour to introduce PM when Ruto is about to become PORK? At end of the day it's about trust - PM and PORK cannot work - two center of powers cannot - GEMA have to accepted DPORK and Uhuru the supreme leader of Jubilee. Anything else Jubilee will cannibalize each other.
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Before everyone - esp Kichwa - loses patience and calls me names - fencesitter, etc, let me explain my reading of this Handshake matter.
Mr William Ruto is poised to mount a gargantuan campaign for PORK with a fair chance. He has cultivated good following among "hustlers", the regions, politicians, donors, etc. He also has worked hard to redeem his polarizing do-or-die persona. People don't like desperation and he knows it. The corrupt image he's faired worse but Kenyans are non-the- wiser. He's smart alec who has it all figured out. A typical Kenyan would trust him to solve a few problems.
Ideally the state should be telling us how to grow the economy by 10%+ not the winding tales about railway and tarmack sijui stima. Demo a path to prosperity by huge gallops like China has done... 10% growth over 30years... great leaps... etc. Instead we have dismal 4% growth under Uhuru.
But this is the Sub Sahara so ignorance is bliss and average is greatness. Performance -wise, I would give these two Average Joes C- (below average). For doing work but no objective to point to. To me Ruto is the best among the mediocre. If there was better I would drop him in a heartbeat.
About those great leaps. We need a stable government to run a marshall plan ala China. In today's connected, liquid capital world a smart state is a real asset to cash in on the mobility and interdependency. I would literally go for a California-esque agric where state plans plantation with farmers. I never get how NCPB, etc can't hack this. I would also align myself with and worship Israel to milk the Agritec benefits. I am aware of the political story but man have you seriously been there? These people long figured out the answers we are dying for.
Or well, since we bleed out manpower via Green Card anyway, a Singapore approach is really great.
My point is none of these proponents has a serious proposal about bread and butter - especially Mr Raila Odinga - conflating his ambition with the national good. Show me your marshall plan for Kenya and tell me what the leader's title has to do with it.
In short, a powerful PORK is as good a leader as PM or Chancellor or Sultan... and is more likely to have the clout to achieve something. Why tie his hands?
Now coalitions are there and at times necessary. But a powerful PORK without any coalition baggage ala Jubilee 1 or NASA, is much better economically. And parliamentary democracies like Israel or the UK go to elections in the blink of an eye. Unpredictable. It's a lie that they are stabler, just more equitable. I really want to see President Ruto spell out his 10yr plan and answer to Parliament. Not to political creditors clutching his collar threatening to sack him. Ruto and Raila are very ambitious and might both be up to build a legacy for themselves and Kenya might just benefit somehow. Uhuru is a collateral beneficiary of their bareknuckles who is only now thinking of his legacy. He's visionless and should never have become PORK. If you hear of "legacy" in the final lap just know the man never had a vision. Handover to Ruto should be about their shared vision continua not 50-50.
Voílá. It looks like a Ruto-v-Raila duel for 2022. Sorry we should not amend the law to alleviate the youthful Mr Kenyatta's boredom. Or to "include" losers. About regions, let's try in 2035 or later. Where is the precedent that a 5 year old system can be judged as failed? That's a new standard that only Raila (who unsurprisingly calls it 10 years) can master.
Now all opinion is personal and this does mean Mr Ruto will succeed. In fact the schemes hatched upon him are unsettling. God help the poor man.
-
To be honest - the gdp growth rate under Jubilee has averaged around 6% - amidst global economic meltdown. TZ has done around 7% and Ethiopia around 10%. Definitely we should aim at Ethiopia's 10% growth rate but still UhuRuto have grown GDP from $50B to now around $85-88B - and have overseen some very trans-formative changes - chiefly possibly one of global fastest electrification, rolled out thousands of new tarmac - thanks to changing of road standards to allow for low seal roads - rolled out more investment in our education mainly laptop projects - and has done well in maternal sector despite counties & doctors-nurses ever on strike - and of course to top it up - they have delivered SGR - kenya biggest infrastructure investment and generally security situation has gotten way better - thanks to Huawei cameras in nairobi & mombasa!
Of course with all that - debts have mounted - corruption has not abetted - and we are still 4% short of the desired 10%. If Uhuru focus on BIG 4 - esp manufacturing & housing - then it may be possible to grew the economy by 10%. Housing is really a low hanging fruit..there is huge demand for decent low cost housing....and China has the capacity to build us new cities for the cheap. Manufacturing is tough one but I believe we can copy Ethiopia and do well in Leather Industry for starters - and if we can subdize power in Naivasha industrial park and Dongo Kundu - we may have new engine of growth.
That should get us to 2022 - when I think Ruto will have a chance to make us a real middle income country ala South Africa. Ruto is energetic, driven and ambitious - and knows how to get stuff done - he is our Museveni (before he got senile), our Magufuli, our Kagame and our Meles Zenawi. He just need to tame his appetite for looting and we should be good to go.
Before everyone - esp Kichwa - loses patience and calls me names - fencesitter, etc, let me explain my reading of this Handshake matter.
Mr William Ruto is poised to mount a gargantuan campaign for PORK with a fair chance. He has cultivated good following among "hustlers", the regions, politicians, donors, etc. He also has worked hard to redeem his polarizing do-or-die persona. People don't like desperation and he knows it. The corrupt image he's faired worse but Kenyans are non-the- wiser. He's smart alec who has it all figured out. A typical Kenyan would trust him to solve a few problems.
Ideally the state should be telling us how to grow the economy by 10%+ not the winding tales about railway and tarmack sijui stima. Demo a path to prosperity by huge gallops like China has done... 10% growth over 30years... great leaps... etc. Instead we have dismal 4% growth under Uhuru.
But this is the Sub Sahara so ignorance is bliss and average is greatness. Performance -wise, I would give these two Average Joes C- (below average). For doing work but no objective to point to. To me Ruto is the best among the mediocre. If there was better I would drop him in a heartbeat.
About those great leaps. We need a stable government to run a marshall plan ala China. In today's connected, liquid capital world a smart state is a real asset to cash in on the mobility and interdependency. I would literally go for a California-esque agric where state plans plantation with farmers. I never get how NCPB, etc can't hack this. I would also align myself with and worship Israel to milk the Agritec benefits. I am aware of the political story but man have you seriously been there? These people long figured out the answers we are dying for.
Or well, since we bleed out manpower via Green Card anyway, a Singapore approach is really great.
My point is none of these proponents has a serious proposal about bread and butter - especially Mr Raila Odinga - conflating his ambition with the national good. Show me your marshall plan for Kenya and tell me what the leader's title has to do with it.
In short, a powerful PORK is as good a leader as PM or Chancellor or Sultan... and is more likely to have the clout to achieve something. Why tie his hands?
Now coalitions are there and at times necessary. But a powerful PORK without any coalition baggage ala Jubilee 1 or NASA, is much better economically. And parliamentary democracies like Israel or the UK go to elections in the blink of an eye. Unpredictable. It's a lie that they are stabler, just more equitable. I really want to see President Ruto spell out his 10yr plan and answer to Parliament. Not to political creditors clutching his collar threatening to sack him. Ruto and Raila are very ambitious and might both be up to build a legacy for themselves and Kenya might just benefit somehow. Uhuru is a collateral beneficiary of their bareknuckles who is only now thinking of his legacy. He's visionless and should never have become PORK. If you hear of "legacy" in the final lap just know the man never had a vision. Handover to Ruto should be about their shared vision continua not 50-50.
Voílá. It looks like a Ruto-v-Raila duel for 2022. Sorry we should not amend the law to alleviate the youthful Mr Kenyatta's boredom. Or to "include" losers. About regions, let's try in 2035 or later. Where is the precedent that a 5 year old system can be judged as failed? That's a new standard that only Raila (who unsurprisingly calls it 10 years) can master.
Now all opinion is personal and this does mean Mr Ruto will succeed. In fact the schemes hatched upon him are unsettling. God help the poor man.
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Pundit those are great points but you missed the missive: this is a political thread. Those problems are uniform across Africa - if we were united proper like the EU we might have a Cities Commissioner to handle Chinese contractors.
Can Mr Kenyatta give a motivational speech like this one, internationally, and not just the katiba-sanctioned annual ritual in Parliament. Just ignore the Iran-bashing part and see how Bibi is Israeli marketer numeró uno.
Uhuru reads his vision from a pad and still sounds incoherent and unconvincing.
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Pundit, Asking Ruto to tame his addiction for corruption is like counseling an alcoholic to tame his alcohol consumption. Corruption has given Ruto power and there is no way he can let go because he will spend a lot of money to buy Gema and if he succeeds he will need to steal more to replenish what he is going to spend between not and 2022 and then start stealing for 2027. The only way to curb corruption in Kenya is to defeat Ruto or considerably curtail his ability to steal with impunity.
To be honest - the gdp growth rate under Jubilee has averaged around 6% - amidst global economic meltdown. TZ has done around 7% and Ethiopia around 10%. Definitely we should aim at Ethiopia's 10% growth rate but still UhuRuto have grown GDP from $50B to now around $85-88B - and have overseen some very trans-formative changes - chiefly possibly one of global fastest electrification, rolled out thousands of new tarmac - thanks to changing of road standards to allow for low seal roads - rolled out more investment in our education mainly laptop projects - and has done well in maternal sector despite counties & doctors-nurses ever on strike - and of course to top it up - they have delivered SGR - kenya biggest infrastructure investment and generally security situation has gotten way better - thanks to Huawei cameras in nairobi & mombasa!
Of course with all that - debts have mounted - corruption has not abetted - and we are still 4% short of the desired 10%. If Uhuru focus on BIG 4 - esp manufacturing & housing - then it may be possible to grew the economy by 10%. Housing is really a low hanging fruit..there is huge demand for decent low cost housing....and China has the capacity to build us new cities for the cheap. Manufacturing is tough one but I believe we can copy Ethiopia and do well in Leather Industry for starters - and if we can subdize power in Naivasha industrial park and Dongo Kundu - we may have new engine of growth.
That should get us to 2022 - when I think Ruto will have a chance to make us a real middle income country ala South Africa. Ruto is energetic, driven and ambitious - and knows how to get stuff done - he is our Museveni (before he got senile), our Magufuli, our Kagame and our Meles Zenawi. He just need to tame his appetite for looting and we should be good to go.
Before everyone - esp Kichwa - loses patience and calls me names - fencesitter, etc, let me explain my reading of this Handshake matter.
Mr William Ruto is poised to mount a gargantuan campaign for PORK with a fair chance. He has cultivated good following among "hustlers", the regions, politicians, donors, etc. He also has worked hard to redeem his polarizing do-or-die persona. People don't like desperation and he knows it. The corrupt image he's faired worse but Kenyans are non-the- wiser. He's smart alec who has it all figured out. A typical Kenyan would trust him to solve a few problems.
Ideally the state should be telling us how to grow the economy by 10%+ not the winding tales about railway and tarmack sijui stima. Demo a path to prosperity by huge gallops like China has done... 10% growth over 30years... great leaps... etc. Instead we have dismal 4% growth under Uhuru.
But this is the Sub Sahara so ignorance is bliss and average is greatness. Performance -wise, I would give these two Average Joes C- (below average). For doing work but no objective to point to. To me Ruto is the best among the mediocre. If there was better I would drop him in a heartbeat.
About those great leaps. We need a stable government to run a marshall plan ala China. In today's connected, liquid capital world a smart state is a real asset to cash in on the mobility and interdependency. I would literally go for a California-esque agric where state plans plantation with farmers. I never get how NCPB, etc can't hack this. I would also align myself with and worship Israel to milk the Agritec benefits. I am aware of the political story but man have you seriously been there? These people long figured out the answers we are dying for.
Or well, since we bleed out manpower via Green Card anyway, a Singapore approach is really great.
My point is none of these proponents has a serious proposal about bread and butter - especially Mr Raila Odinga - conflating his ambition with the national good. Show me your marshall plan for Kenya and tell me what the leader's title has to do with it.
In short, a powerful PORK is as good a leader as PM or Chancellor or Sultan... and is more likely to have the clout to achieve something. Why tie his hands?
Now coalitions are there and at times necessary. But a powerful PORK without any coalition baggage ala Jubilee 1 or NASA, is much better economically. And parliamentary democracies like Israel or the UK go to elections in the blink of an eye. Unpredictable. It's a lie that they are stabler, just more equitable. I really want to see President Ruto spell out his 10yr plan and answer to Parliament. Not to political creditors clutching his collar threatening to sack him. Ruto and Raila are very ambitious and might both be up to build a legacy for themselves and Kenya might just benefit somehow. Uhuru is a collateral beneficiary of their bareknuckles who is only now thinking of his legacy. He's visionless and should never have become PORK. If you hear of "legacy" in the final lap just know the man never had a vision. Handover to Ruto should be about their shared vision continua not 50-50.
Voílá. It looks like a Ruto-v-Raila duel for 2022. Sorry we should not amend the law to alleviate the youthful Mr Kenyatta's boredom. Or to "include" losers. About regions, let's try in 2035 or later. Where is the precedent that a 5 year old system can be judged as failed? That's a new standard that only Raila (who unsurprisingly calls it 10 years) can master.
Now all opinion is personal and this does mean Mr Ruto will succeed. In fact the schemes hatched upon him are unsettling. God help the poor man.
-
Pundit, Asking Ruto to tame his addiction for corruption is like counseling an alcoholic to tame his alcohol consumption. Corruption has given Ruto power and there is no way he can let go because he will spend a lot of money to buy Gema and if he succeeds he will need to steal more to replenish what he is going to spend between not and 2022 and then start stealing for 2027. The only way to curb corruption in Kenya is to defeat Ruto or considerably curtail his ability to steal with impunity.
The hustler reminds me of Kagame in one respect. Dictatorial. Everything else reminds me more of Mobutu. Regardless of how beloved this sewer rat is to some, his path to State House consists of
1) death of kamwana
2) IEBC support
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Other than buying politicians to sing his praises, Ruto has never articulated any vision for this country other than that the trains will run on time during his watch. He is increasingly being sidelined and isolated as a status quoist who cannot make any intellectual contribution to the current debate on what direction this country should go. He has zero contribution on the issue of forming a national identity, how to fight corruption, impunity or the question of power-sharing, or inclusivity and generally how to properly govern a tribally diverse African country like Kenya. These are issues that need serious discussion and yet WSR, is just interested in how to divide Kenyans along tribal lines and how he can capture the statehouse in 2022.
Pundit, Asking Ruto to tame his addiction for corruption is like counseling an alcoholic to tame his alcohol consumption. Corruption has given Ruto power and there is no way he can let go because he will spend a lot of money to buy Gema and if he succeeds he will need to steal more to replenish what he is going to spend between not and 2022 and then start stealing for 2027. The only way to curb corruption in Kenya is to defeat Ruto or considerably curtail his ability to steal with impunity.
The hustler reminds me of Kagame in one respect. Dictatorial. Everything else reminds me more of Mobutu. Regardless of how beloved this sewer rat is to some, his path to State House consists of
1) death of kamwana
2) IEBC support
-
I would just say don't be too personal on the man, it's just politics. That way the debate is more objective. It's also easier to accept defeat or victory when it occurs.
You would be hard pressed to explain, in a line up of second, third, fourth and fifth time repeat runners, how the first time runner is power hungry and not the repeaters? Logic please!
Does having a mammoth following automatically count as corruption? There is some 'heft' needed for that, no? I don't believe claims that Ruto has bribed Mt Kenya MPs any more than he has the Somali. And the Duales have followed him since the big ODM split post 2007.
Ruto's clout among the diverse pastoralist communities, as a mere MP, shows his leadership. The 2010 results demonstrated his ability to lead, not bribe or intimidate, which was Kibaki and Raila's preserve during the referendum.
The dynasties peddling "inclusion" are the status quo this time actually. We need salvation from their tyranny.
Like I said, poor man!
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Ruto attracts the extreme reaction for the same reason Raila does: Strength.
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Sorry to roil the evening, but I just rechecked the dictionary.
Dynasty = status quo and exclusion
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The SGR is doing well with the full bookings. You have to book 2-3 days in advance. The comfort and the times. Once they are able to do trains connecting Nairobi/Mombasa CBDs to Syokimau and Miritini they will have hit it. I don't know why there are no night trains. Cargo also doing well and as expected the magendo guys are crying - KRA & KPA guys are minting millions.
The prolonged rains are exposing the roads lie- where are the roads which Jubilee keeps singing about?
About the cameras there is little to sing about- I saw an officer indicate they don't keep data for more than 30 days. Either true or usual criminal nature of our police, prosecution and judiciary. With the current evil axis in these 3 arms- police, prosecution and judiciary and little political goodwill corruption can only eat up everything in next 10 years. Can we progress without rule of law??
What is our economic model where government tries to do everything - manufacturing, housing, buses....
To be honest - the gdp growth rate under Jubilee has averaged around 6% - amidst global economic meltdown. TZ has done around 7% and Ethiopia around 10%. Definitely we should aim at Ethiopia's 10% growth rate but still UhuRuto have grown GDP from $50B to now around $85-88B - and have overseen some very trans-formative changes - chiefly possibly one of global fastest electrification, rolled out thousands of new tarmac - thanks to changing of road standards to allow for low seal roads - rolled out more investment in our education mainly laptop projects - and has done well in maternal sector despite counties & doctors-nurses ever on strike - and of course to top it up - they have delivered SGR - kenya biggest infrastructure investment and generally security situation has gotten way better - thanks to Huawei cameras in nairobi & mombasa!
Of course with all that - debts have mounted - corruption has not abetted - and we are still 4% short of the desired 10%. If Uhuru focus on BIG 4 - esp manufacturing & housing - then it may be possible to grew the economy by 10%. Housing is really a low hanging fruit..there is huge demand for decent low cost housing....and China has the capacity to build us new cities for the cheap. Manufacturing is tough one but I believe we can copy Ethiopia and do well in Leather Industry for starters - and if we can subdize power in Naivasha industrial park and Dongo Kundu - we may have new engine of growth.
That should get us to 2022 - when I think Ruto will have a chance to make us a real middle income country ala South Africa. Ruto is energetic, driven and ambitious - and knows how to get stuff done - he is our Museveni (before he got senile), our Magufuli, our Kagame and our Meles Zenawi. He just need to tame his appetite for looting and we should be good to go.
Before everyone - esp Kichwa - loses patience and calls me names - fencesitter, etc, let me explain my reading of this Handshake matter.
Mr William Ruto is poised to mount a gargantuan campaign for PORK with a fair chance. He has cultivated good following among "hustlers", the regions, politicians, donors, etc. He also has worked hard to redeem his polarizing do-or-die persona. People don't like desperation and he knows it. The corrupt image he's faired worse but Kenyans are non-the- wiser. He's smart alec who has it all figured out. A typical Kenyan would trust him to solve a few problems.
Ideally the state should be telling us how to grow the economy by 10%+ not the winding tales about railway and tarmack sijui stima. Demo a path to prosperity by huge gallops like China has done... 10% growth over 30years... great leaps... etc. Instead we have dismal 4% growth under Uhuru.
But this is the Sub Sahara so ignorance is bliss and average is greatness. Performance -wise, I would give these two Average Joes C- (below average). For doing work but no objective to point to. To me Ruto is the best among the mediocre. If there was better I would drop him in a heartbeat.
About those great leaps. We need a stable government to run a marshall plan ala China. In today's connected, liquid capital world a smart state is a real asset to cash in on the mobility and interdependency. I would literally go for a California-esque agric where state plans plantation with farmers. I never get how NCPB, etc can't hack this. I would also align myself with and worship Israel to milk the Agritec benefits. I am aware of the political story but man have you seriously been there? These people long figured out the answers we are dying for.
Or well, since we bleed out manpower via Green Card anyway, a Singapore approach is really great.
My point is none of these proponents has a serious proposal about bread and butter - especially Mr Raila Odinga - conflating his ambition with the national good. Show me your marshall plan for Kenya and tell me what the leader's title has to do with it.
In short, a powerful PORK is as good a leader as PM or Chancellor or Sultan... and is more likely to have the clout to achieve something. Why tie his hands?
Now coalitions are there and at times necessary. But a powerful PORK without any coalition baggage ala Jubilee 1 or NASA, is much better economically. And parliamentary democracies like Israel or the UK go to elections in the blink of an eye. Unpredictable. It's a lie that they are stabler, just more equitable. I really want to see President Ruto spell out his 10yr plan and answer to Parliament. Not to political creditors clutching his collar threatening to sack him. Ruto and Raila are very ambitious and might both be up to build a legacy for themselves and Kenya might just benefit somehow. Uhuru is a collateral beneficiary of their bareknuckles who is only now thinking of his legacy. He's visionless and should never have become PORK. If you hear of "legacy" in the final lap just know the man never had a vision. Handover to Ruto should be about their shared vision continua not 50-50.
Voílá. It looks like a Ruto-v-Raila duel for 2022. Sorry we should not amend the law to alleviate the youthful Mr Kenyatta's boredom. Or to "include" losers. About regions, let's try in 2035 or later. Where is the precedent that a 5 year old system can be judged as failed? That's a new standard that only Raila (who unsurprisingly calls it 10 years) can master.
Now all opinion is personal and this does mean Mr Ruto will succeed. In fact the schemes hatched upon him are unsettling. God help the poor man.
-
Robina, there is nothing like objectivity in politics especially in Kenya. Just go back to your earlier postings and tell me how objective you have been. My goal is not to be objective but to be reasonable in my subjectivity. Ruto is one of the most corrupt politicians in Kenya-PERIOD. He started off selling chicken less than a decade ago but some people now estimate his net worth in 100's of billions and he acquired all these while working for the government. He is not the only one but he is corrupt. He has really no articulable political ideology or any plan at all that he has intellectually talked, lectured about or written about. I think I have been very soft on Ruto. You can support Ruto if you want but just be honest about it like Pundit. Sitting on the fence or criticizing everybody is not objectivity.
I would just say don't be too personal on the man, it's just politics. That way the debate is more objective. It's also easier to accept defeat or victory when it occurs.
You would be hard pressed to explain, in a line up of second, third, fourth and fifth time repeat runners, how the first time runner is power hungry and not the repeaters? Logic please!
Does having a mammoth following automatically count as corruption? There is some 'heft' needed for that, no? I don't believe claims that Ruto has bribed Mt Kenya MPs any more than he has the Somali. And the Duales have followed him since the big ODM split post 2007.
Ruto's clout among the diverse pastoralist communities, as a mere MP, shows his leadership. The 2010 results demonstrated his ability to lead, not bribe or intimidate, which was Kibaki and Raila's preserve during the referendum.
The dynasties peddling "inclusion" are the status quo this time actually. We need salvation from their tyranny.
Like I said, poor man!
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Indeed I would love to hear what Ruto's vision is. He has been in campaign mode for years. But I can't put a finger on what he wants, other than power.
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Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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Ideology of a politician is not something you examine in a laboratory by dissecting them and to determine. Ruto has been in politics long enough that if he had an ideology we would know by now. When Ruto was with Moi he was a “social conservative”, when he was with Raila he was for liberalization and when he came back with Ouru he was back again to the “social conservatism” that you are desperately trying to pin on him. Ruto could be better described as a ruthless pragmatist who will do anything to get to power. The only other thing I could say about Ruto is that he seems to be very well organized and efficient. Raila is known for exactly the opposite, very disorganized, but Raila has a clear ideology which he can articulate, write about and defend even in his sleep. Ruto is now against referendum but if the pressure piles on he may copulate based on a political calculation that benefits him. I think Ruto can become a very ruthless dictator who is very well organized and could be also be very. efficient, generous to his friends and as deadly as Hitler to his enemies if not checked with a strong constitution and institutions.
Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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You hit the nail on the head. Ruto is arguably the most intelligent of the current crop of politicians, the most committed and the most likely to get stuff done.Ruto doesn't loot because he loves money like Raila or Kibaki - but mostly he sees money as tool to expand his politics - ultimately I think Ruto is nearest we have of Meles Zenawi & Paul Kagame-- and when he becomes PORK - Kenya would be a great place because Ruto will not settle for nothing less.
Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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Politics of ideology - socialism versus capitalism - etc - died long time ago in 1990 before Ruto joined politics. Raila of course was brought up a communist marxist - and probably expouse them when in fact he is capitalist who is stingy as hell. Right now everyone including the most avowed socialist or communist in China or capitalist in US - understands there is need to blend everything - and so the only ideology that people really care about is ideology of development, of fighting poverty and progress. And Ruto espouse that.
Ideology of a politician is not something you examine in a laboratory by dissecting them and to determine. Ruto has been in politics long enough that if he had an ideology we would know by now. When Ruto was with Moi he was a “social conservative”, when he was with Raila he was for liberalization and when he came back with Ouru he was back again to the “social conservatism” that you are desperately trying to pin on him. Ruto could be better described as a ruthless pragmatist who will do anything to get to power. The only other thing I could say about Ruto is that he seems to be very well organized and efficient. Raila is known for exactly the opposite, very disorganized, but Raila has a clear ideology which he can articulate, write about and defend even in his sleep. Ruto is now against referendum but if the pressure piles on he may copulate based on a political calculation that benefits him. I think Ruto can become a very ruthless dictator who is very well organized and could be also be very. efficient, generous to his friends and as deadly as Hitler to his enemies if not checked with a strong constitution and institutions.
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The ideology of African politicians is the same. Criminal gangsterism - primitive accumulation, plunder, destroy rule of law, police, prosecution, destroy evidence. bribe or kill witnesses.
Any political idea or project is all about establishing, nurturing or expanding the criminal enterprise. You reward the enforcers and punish any threats to the criminal outfit. Push projects which line your projects with ease.
Kenyatta, Moi and Ruto are ruthless mafia dons who are proud of it despite the usual church sermons. Uhuru and Gideon are reluctant don heirs but still mafioso by blood and actions.
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I think you could as well be describing Raila. In terms of ruthless pragmatism, etc. For instance Raila supported a draft with pure presidency, no regions, etc - for political expediency. The most discernible difference between Raila and Ruto is the disorganization vs efficiency. I said already both men are ambitious to build legacies but Ruto's execution is definitely better.
If ideology was important than efficiency I would pick Raila because I would rather liberal than conservative. However I don't want socialism.
My man is William Ruto. Ruthless efficiency and capitalism.
Ideology of a politician is not something you examine in a laboratory by dissecting them and to determine. Ruto has been in politics long enough that if he had an ideology we would know by now. When Ruto was with Moi he was a “social conservative”, when he was with Raila he was for liberalization and when he came back with Ouru he was back again to the “social conservatism” that you are desperately trying to pin on him. Ruto could be better described as a ruthless pragmatist who will do anything to get to power. The only other thing I could say about Ruto is that he seems to be very well organized and efficient. Raila is known for exactly the opposite, very disorganized, but Raila has a clear ideology which he can articulate, write about and defend even in his sleep. Ruto is now against referendum but if the pressure piles on he may copulate based on a political calculation that benefits him. I think Ruto can become a very ruthless dictator who is very well organized and could be also be very. efficient, generous to his friends and as deadly as Hitler to his enemies if not checked with a strong constitution and institutions.
Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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You can have an ideology and be pragmatic at the same time as opposed to a fanatic/extremist.
Raila has described himself several times as a panafricanist and a social democrat- Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and capitalist economy.
I would assume that an educated person in this day and age should support a leader who at a minimum be able to articulate their political ideology in away that is consistent with the acceptable political ideologies of our modern times.
I have never heard Ruto articulate his political ideology and I think its intentional so that he is not pegged down to any set of internal rules that people can judge him by. I am sure Ruto has some sets of political preferences which could be plotted somewhere on the Right to left political spectrum but he leaves that to people like you and Pundit to do so in the most positive light possible to his political career as needed.
I and many others believe that Ruto is a ruthless, efficient, pragmatist in the politics of corruption, looting, tribalism, and electoral fraud. I believe he is capable of quickly graduating into a ruthless dictator if not stopped or checked. He has been compared to some of the most ruthless dictators of our time based on his impatience, restlessness, aversion to criticism, hands on managerial style, and ability to very cruel and unforgiving to his critics. Just think of how he recently let his dogs loose on Gideon at a funeral. Gideon's only crime is because he dares to have presidential ambitions and denied Ruto access to his ailing and his senile 93 year old father when Ruto needed that photo-op to bolster his 2022 political ambitions.
Most dictators win hearts earlier in their days of governance by promising efficiency in the delivery of services in exchange for civil liberties. People love it in the beginning just to wake up a few years later with a ruthless dictator. I remember the earlier days of Moi visiting hospitals, Kagame is still at it and Ugandans loved Museveni when he rode into power.
We need the constitutional changes that Raila is fighting for to safeguard our democracy, inclusivity, unity and liberties than the fleeting and nebulous qualities of an "efficient" strong man that Ruto is offering.
I think you could as well be describing Raila. In terms of ruthless pragmatism, etc. For instance Raila supported a draft with pure presidency, no regions, etc - for political expediency. The most discernible difference between Raila and Ruto is the disorganization vs efficiency. I said already both men are ambitious to build legacies but Ruto's execution is definitely better.
If ideology was important than efficiency I would pick Raila because I would rather liberal than conservative. However I don't want socialism.
My man is William Ruto. Ruthless efficiency and capitalism.
Ideology of a politician is not something you examine in a laboratory by dissecting them and to determine. Ruto has been in politics long enough that if he had an ideology we would know by now. When Ruto was with Moi he was a “social conservative”, when he was with Raila he was for liberalization and when he came back with Ouru he was back again to the “social conservatism” that you are desperately trying to pin on him. Ruto could be better described as a ruthless pragmatist who will do anything to get to power. The only other thing I could say about Ruto is that he seems to be very well organized and efficient. Raila is known for exactly the opposite, very disorganized, but Raila has a clear ideology which he can articulate, write about and defend even in his sleep. Ruto is now against referendum but if the pressure piles on he may copulate based on a political calculation that benefits him. I think Ruto can become a very ruthless dictator who is very well organized and could be also be very. efficient, generous to his friends and as deadly as Hitler to his enemies if not checked with a strong constitution and institutions.
Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
You mean he "did his job" in a zero expectations environment. Lots of Kenyans do that everyday without the baggage.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
I am not sure how you can be competent when you can't summarize what you are about. It begs the question of what exactly you are competent at.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
Now this is vague. What does he think is the problem in Kenya? Lack of Christianity and African traditions? Abortion? Gay marriage?
Raila will likely tell you, tribalism, corruption, income inequality; regardless of what you think of them and his suggested solutions he can spell them with clarity.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
You are just making this up. I have never heard him say that.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
He hasn't run for President. Neither has Miguna, yet I have no doubt what Miguna stands for.
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How exactly did Raila treat his critics and competitors - Orengo, Nyong'o, Ochuodho, Tuju. I recall Tuju crying when he was Tourism Minister in NARC after being bullied by Raila and his goons. Raila is a much more brutal tyrant so there are no Luo opponents left. Even poor Kalonzo was labeled Judas and Watermelon. Weta recently faced first hand Raila's treat. How about Miguna's majestic treat? Handshake was underway as the poor sod was dragged and stowawayed to Dubai after naively swearing him in. Of course we can rely on you to praise him. Save it for the gullible.
Raila despite PM and national limelight for decades is a well known slaggard and disorganized leader. What stops him from attempting some efficiency? I think it's a natural trait that would infect the country if he took over. We need hard work and efficiency in a leader not "ideology" and other non-bread & butter theories.
Gee, so is Raila for presidential or parliamentary or monarch? Who knows! Depending on the political breeze his stand changes in a flash. Today it's parliamentary. Tomorrow in case Uhuru dissolves the Handshake team he will be back to maandamano.
At least Ruto is known for something: EFFICIENCY. Raila is synonymous with gullible, disorganization and trickery - Moi, Nyachae, Kalonzo can tell you - Moi used to call it "siasa ya pata potea. Msichezee karata maisha yenu" in direct reference to Raila.
Nobody needs any "inclusion" voodoo Raila is peddling except the dynasties backing him. The people backing Raila - Moi, Kenyatta, Kibaki - just tells you what it's all about. Wait till he winds up high and dry as usual. The only thing he might get from this is ceremonial president - anything to be called Rais. What a sucker.
You can have an ideology and be pragmatic at the same time as opposed to a fanatic/extremist.
Raila has described himself several times as a panafricanist and a social democrat- Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and capitalist economy.
I would assume that an educated person in this day and age should support a leader who at a minimum be able to articulate their political ideology in away that is consistent with the acceptable political ideologies of our modern times.
I have never heard Ruto articulate his political ideology and I think its intentional so that he is not pegged down to any set of internal rules that people can judge him by. I am sure Ruto has some sets of political preferences which could be plotted somewhere on the Right to left political spectrum but he leaves that to people like you and Pundit to do so in the most positive light possible to his political career as needed.
I and many others believe that Ruto is a ruthless, efficient, pragmatist in the politics of corruption, looting, tribalism, and electoral fraud. I believe he is capable of quickly graduating into a ruthless dictator if not stopped or checked. He has been compared to some of the most ruthless dictators of our time based on his impatience, restlessness, aversion to criticism, hands on managerial style, and ability to very cruel and unforgiving to his critics. Just think of how he recently let his dogs loose on Gideon at a funeral. Gideon's only crime is because he dares to have presidential ambitions and denied Ruto access to his ailing and his senile 93 year old father when Ruto needed that photo-op to bolster his 2022 political ambitions.
Most dictators win hearts earlier in their days of governance by promising efficiency in the delivery of services in exchange for civil liberties. People love it in the beginning just to wake up a few years later with a ruthless dictator. I remember the earlier days of Moi visiting hospitals, Kagame is still at it and Ugandans loved Museveni when he rode into power.
We need the constitutional changes that Raila is fighting for to safeguard our democracy, inclusivity, unity and liberties than the fleeting and nebulous qualities of an "efficient" strong man that Ruto is offering.
I think you could as well be describing Raila. In terms of ruthless pragmatism, etc. For instance Raila supported a draft with pure presidency, no regions, etc - for political expediency. The most discernible difference between Raila and Ruto is the disorganization vs efficiency. I said already both men are ambitious to build legacies but Ruto's execution is definitely better.
If ideology was important than efficiency I would pick Raila because I would rather liberal than conservative. However I don't want socialism.
My man is William Ruto. Ruthless efficiency and capitalism.
Ideology of a politician is not something you examine in a laboratory by dissecting them and to determine. Ruto has been in politics long enough that if he had an ideology we would know by now. When Ruto was with Moi he was a “social conservative”, when he was with Raila he was for liberalization and when he came back with Ouru he was back again to the “social conservatism” that you are desperately trying to pin on him. Ruto could be better described as a ruthless pragmatist who will do anything to get to power. The only other thing I could say about Ruto is that he seems to be very well organized and efficient. Raila is known for exactly the opposite, very disorganized, but Raila has a clear ideology which he can articulate, write about and defend even in his sleep. Ruto is now against referendum but if the pressure piles on he may copulate based on a political calculation that benefits him. I think Ruto can become a very ruthless dictator who is very well organized and could be also be very. efficient, generous to his friends and as deadly as Hitler to his enemies if not checked with a strong constitution and institutions.
Before "ideology" and such cosmetics, Ruto shone as the only Ass Min to sit in the Moi cabinet. As MP his CDF shone. As Agric & Higher Ed Min he shone. Fake colleges ran helter-skelter. That's a performer only rivalled by John Michuki. Compared to say a bozo like Mudavadi who held executive portfolio Finance and Local Govt under Moi and Raila patronage for years and has zilch to report.
Buzz like "ideology" is vagueness that masks incompetence. Political leanings are a costly luxury in place of bread and butter. That's why I asked earlier how a marshall plan would be impacted by the leader's title.
Ruto's ideological and economic stands are apparent to me as they begun since 2010 constitution debate to firm up in URP. He is social conservative supporting Christian and African traditional values. He opposed the new constitution for this reason - it's moral laxity on abortion, gay marriage, etc. To be clear I as Robina don't support conservative politics. Except where liberal loonies go too far.
He believes in small government and capitalism as opposed to state overreach and socialism. Ruto would be a Rethug in the US.
Most of the Jubilee big projects - SGR, irrigation schemes, etc - were URP promises before Jubilee coalition in Dec 2012. Uhuru's and TNA's main noticeable promise was laptops for kids.
You can recall Ruto and Raila's ODM promised devolution in the 2007 elections. At Naivasha in 2010, Ruto joined Uhuru and PNU to eliminate regions and PM from the draft. It buffles now Uhuru supports both items.
Ruto's stand is firm on most national matters. I don't know what to make of claims of his massive wealth. Also there are many fabulously wealthy thieves in the "inclusion" corner that you and Raila support. Ruto has nothing on the dynasties in this regard. It's actually impossible to say integrity, inclusion or change in the same breath as the dynasties with a straight face.
About vision: well 2022 is a whole 4 years away. We don't even know his opponents, except those pushing for new positions while insisting they will not run in 2022. Some are being proposed by Atwoli, etc. No pressure for Ruto at all - let competitors emerge.
Ruto has in fact never been a presidential candidate before. Still he masterfully articulates the incoherent Mr Kenyatta's agenda. Formal campaigns begin in May 2022.
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Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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Kichwa: Miguna picked political conman to describe Raila after studying him for some time. I think a more fitting term is a snake oil salesman... for hawking voodoo (PM or inclusive dynasty) as a solution to real bread & butter problems that many Kenyans face.
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Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
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I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.
Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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Having keenly studied Ruto I can summarize his ideology as protestanism.He is a more educated Moi.Intelligent as a whip.But beneath all the brilliance he like Moi was shaped and moulded by American Missionsaries AIC.He espouses what passes as protestant work ethic n philosophy...and that a man has to work so hard, so efficiently and live so frugaly so he may from his earthly success know if god had preordained them the chosen one.That philosophy is older than Karl marx inspired socialism..it dates back to German Martin Luther and Englishman John Calvin.America capatalism and pre emergence as world superpower stems from this belief.While Catholic Europe carefree lazy lifestyle hobbled them Americans rebels of this protestanism worked so hard, so efficiently and saved so much just so they could go to heaven.Ruto ideology can described simply as protestanism..he remain diehard AIC..his life philosophy you can discearn from rvhh in .com..basically work hard, hate alcohol ,save hard, invest alot and have blessed happy family and only thro that will you find from you own success that youre god chosen.Ruto like Moi is god chosen.They believe it.They work for it.You better believe.America greatness an be attributed to this great protestant work ethic.Like Moi if it wasnt politics both would be AIC evangicals spreading Martin LutherCalvin brand of christianity.Raila is inspired by German karl marx of poor eventually squearing with elite.Ruto by Martin Luther reformative rebellion of catholicism of spiritual purity.Calvin expanded this philosophy to mean god already knew your fate before birth and by living a successful life as opposed to spiritually pure life would you know youre among the chosen few to go to heaven and wine and dine with the jewish god.I grew up a catholic in an area dominated by AIC and while catholic welcomed n embraced the poor wretched..AIC treated them as a plague except in their children homes or hospital..every AIC had a duty to work hard and change their fortunes...you could come in poor aoc but expectation was youd turn your life around pretty soon or they would ostracize you.Catholic celebrate poverty ..the poor the more likely youd be pure of heart..the richer the harder it was go to the father.There is no doubt that despite these american Missionsaries lacking catholic muscle theyve given us african best hospitals and schools Kijabe,Tenweek and Kapsowar plus Rift valley academy in Kijabe..these are some AFRICA best of best.In Ruto like Moi kenya will get extremely driven albeit intelligent leader..well it already has coz often catholic uuhuru is stoned.
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And I do not want to, you can just continue debating yourself.
I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.
Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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That's all wonderful Pundit but I would like to know whether WSR is even a liberal where liberalism is a political view based on liberty and equality. Liberals generally support civil rights, democracy, secularism, gender equality, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and markets. Is WSR even a liberal in the first place and if so, where does he fall in the Left to Right liberal spectrum? Lastly, if he is well educated and smart as you claim, why is it so difficult for him to describe his political view.
Having keenly studied Ruto I can summarize his ideology as protestanism.He is a more educated Moi.Intelligent as a whip.But beneath all the brilliance he like Moi was shaped and moulded by American Missionsaries AIC.He espouses what passes as protestant work ethic n philosophy...and that a man has to work so hard, so efficiently and live so frugaly so he may from his earthly success know if god had preordained them the chosen one.That philosophy is older than Karl marx inspired socialism..it dates back to German Martin Luther and Englishman John Calvin.America capatalism and pre emergence as world superpower stems from this belief.While Catholic Europe carefree lazy lifestyle hobbled them Americans rebels of this protestanism worked so hard, so efficiently and saved so much just so they could go to heaven.Ruto ideology can described simply as protestanism..he remain diehard AIC..his life philosophy you can discearn from rvhh in .com..basically work hard, hate alcohol ,save hard, invest alot and have blessed happy family and only thro that will you find from you own success that youre god chosen.Ruto like Moi is god chosen.They believe it.They work for it.You better believe.America greatness an be attributed to this great protestant work ethic.Like Moi if it wasnt politics both would be AIC evangicals spreading Martin LutherCalvin brand of christianity.Raila is inspired by German karl marx of poor eventually squearing with elite.Ruto by Martin Luther reformative rebellion of catholicism of spiritual purity.Calvin expanded this philosophy to mean god already knew your fate before birth and by living a successful life as opposed to spiritually pure life would you know youre among the chosen few to go to heaven and wine and dine with the jewish god.I grew up a catholic in an area dominated by AIC and while catholic welcomed n embraced the poor wretched..AIC treated them as a plague except in their children homes or hospital..every AIC had a duty to work hard and change their fortunes...you could come in poor aoc but expectation was youd turn your life around pretty soon or they would ostracize you.Catholic celebrate poverty ..the poor the more likely youd be pure of heart..the richer the harder it was go to the father.There is no doubt that despite these american Missionsaries lacking catholic muscle theyve given us african best hospitals and schools Kijabe,Tenweek and Kapsowar plus Rift valley academy in Kijabe..these are some AFRICA best of best.In Ruto like Moi kenya will get extremely driven albeit intelligent leader..well it already has coz often catholic uuhuru is stoned.
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kichwa i am a liberal personally but clearly wsr is not one of us.He is simply a protestant who profess protestanism.Clearly the narrow definition of your politics need some expounding
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I hope you are wrong that wsr may not even be a lower case liberal in this day and age. That would mean that WSR does not care about concepts such as liberty and equality, democracy, internationalism and the freedoms of speech, the press, religion and free markets. If that were to be the case then the question that termie posed should be asked again. "What is he going to be efficient about" and why would a liberal like you support him. I think that if one were to sit down with Ruto and ask him several questions and then plot him on the liberal political spectrum, he would definitely score to the Right of center. on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is a flaming Liberal and 10 a conservative, I think Ruto would score a 9 but he would still fall within the spectrum. Anybody who scores outside this western political standard should not even be running for office in this day and age.
kichwa i am a liberal personally but clearly wsr is not one of us.He is simply a protestant who profess protestanism.Clearly the narrow definition of your politics need some expounding
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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
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Most adults have a political ideology but those who are not educated are unable to communicate/translate their political ideology into the Liberal/Conservative Gold standard that is internationally recognized and understood. Miguna can describe his political ideology very succinctly using the language that is internationally recognized unlike Robina's nanny. I also expect WSR to be able to do the same. WSR should actually make a point of doing some lectures at some of the universities in Kenya between now and 2022 to articulate his political ideology and the vision for the country. He should also consider traveling abroad or to other African countries and giving some lectures in academic institutions like RAO is always doing with Q's and A's at the end. He should even consider writing a book. WSR may be young in chronological age but politically he is very old fashioned.
That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
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You can dissect Ruto's ideology as corruption, looting, dictatorship, etc as you wish. We'll do the same with Raila's ideology of duplicity and deceit.
And I do not want to, you can just continue debating yourself.
I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.
Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
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Precisely proven track record trumps ideology.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance trrack record is good enough for regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
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Most adults have a political ideology but those who are not educated are unable to communicate/translate their political ideology into the Liberal/Conservative Gold standard that is internationally recognized and understood. Miguna can describe his political ideology very succinctly using the language that is internationally recognized unlike Robina's nanny. I also expect WSR to be able to do the same. WSR should actually make a point of doing some lectures at some of the universities in Kenya between now and 2022 to articulate his political ideology and the vision for the country. He should also consider traveling abroad or to other African countries and giving some lectures in academic institutions like RAO is always doing with Q's and A's at the end. He should even consider writing a book. WSR may be young in chronological age but politically he is very old fashioned.
That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
I agree it might be that the nanny cannot articulate what she thinks the world ought to work like from a political standpoint. It's even excusable given that her day job probably does not revolve around politics and government.
For about 20 years, Ruto's only job as far as I can tell has been politics. So it should not be too much to ask what he thinks the government should be about, how big it should be, where it should not get involved, why he prefers Counties vs Regions, what should be devolved and why and so on even if he cannot put a name to it.
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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
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Why are you screaming as if anybody has tried to stop you from criticizing Raila. You are just parroting things about Raila that people have been saying for years. Why do you think I care.
You can dissect Ruto's ideology as corruption, looting, dictatorship, etc as you wish. We'll do the same with Raila's ideology of duplicity and deceit.
And I do not want to, you can just continue debating yourself.
I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.
Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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You perceive my casual observations as screaming due to the internal aversion to Raila critics. The things you say about Ruto you have been at it for years with no consequence. Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology or give lectures. That's Raila style which has gotten him nowhere. Left and right western "gold" standard don't mean much to poor Kenyans. Ruto needs only a Marshall Plan or vision of how to raise Kenya to upper middle income. That needs basic economic planning and efficiency to execute, not political ideology.
Why are you screaming as if anybody has tried to stop you from criticizing Raila. You are just parroting things about Raila that people have been saying for years. Why do you think I care.
You can dissect Ruto's ideology as corruption, looting, dictatorship, etc as you wish. We'll do the same with Raila's ideology of duplicity and deceit.
And I do not want to, you can just continue debating yourself.
I thought we were talking about Raila's suggested changes and the leaders involved. You don't make the rules here Kichwa.
Robina. You are all over the place now and its impossible to debate with you. I thought we were talking about ideology.
Funny how Raila exemplifies the negative in our political fabric - relying on Kichwa and the choir to sanctimonize the stench - with uncouthness like "verbal diarrhoea".
Verbal diarrhoea is the definition of the demagogue. Which is what he is. And this is the exact hypocrisy of his liberal and reform nonsense.
How would someone pushing a sitting dynast to be the next PM talk of inclusion? Only a two-faced hypocrite like Raila can do that.
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That a symbol of immaturity like Miguna has a clear "ideology", bitmask, is my point about the subject. My nanny too has a clear ideology.
Miguna is a Bolivarian leftist like Hugo Chavez. I agree he has a few neurons wired up in unusual ways. But it’s clear what he thinks about the world. Yes, your nanny likely has an ideology too. Lacking one is bit like computer hardware with no operating system.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
To quote Ekwe Ethuro, URP spokesman, circa April 2012: "We will be known as the Republicans of Kenya."
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
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bitmask... catch
13 JANUARY 2012 The Star (Nairobi)
Ruto to Run On Family Values Platform
http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html)
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By Mosoku Geoffrey
Eldoret North MP William Ruto will be campaigning on a platform of upholding family values. The United Republican Party which is Ruto's party of choice for the presidential race, stands against abortion and same sex marriages.
The party considers marriage to be only that between a man and a woman and will propagate the sancity of life which they say begins at conception. Its policies will be guided by religious teachings and African customs. "We respect the family as the basic unit of a nation. We subscribe to the family values based on the African principles, especially marriage between a man and woman and the sanctity of life from conception," Turkana Central MP Ekwe Ethuro said in a statement read on behalf of the 25 MPs including Ruto, Cabinet minister Chirau Mwakwere who attended the URP meeting.
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Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure. To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power. That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.
So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology. How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable? After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world. Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
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bitmask... catch
13 JANUARY 2012 The Star (Nairobi)
Ruto to Run On Family Values Platform
http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/201201160015.html)
Tweet
Share
Google+
By Mosoku Geoffrey
Eldoret North MP William Ruto will be campaigning on a platform of upholding family values. The United Republican Party which is Ruto's party of choice for the presidential race, stands against abortion and same sex marriages.
The party considers marriage to be only that between a man and a woman and will propagate the sancity of life which they say begins at conception. Its policies will be guided by religious teachings and African customs. "We respect the family as the basic unit of a nation. We subscribe to the family values based on the African principles, especially marriage between a man and woman and the sanctity of life from conception," Turkana Central MP Ekwe Ethuro said in a statement read on behalf of the 25 MPs including Ruto, Cabinet minister Chirau Mwakwere who attended the URP meeting.
Thanks. So he is against abortion, gay rights and those kind of things. Surely that is not all there is to the hustler. Those are the public views of like 100% of politicians in Kenya
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Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure. To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power. That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.
So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology. How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable? After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world. Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.
Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
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Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.
The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center). I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc. He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.
There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution, needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.
The notion that the left/right political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout. There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies. Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure. To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power. That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.
So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology. How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable? After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world. Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.
Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
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Nice speech. It's not unusual for an Ivy League lawyer like yourself to imagine a layman - mama mboga, boda boda rider, shoe shiner, etc - understand or even care about such jargon. While all they care about is the price of diesel, kanjo rates, soko ya mboga. A basic plan for easing their life situation suffices. Hii ideology ni mnyama gani tena?
Ati non-liberals are disqualified? That would be the 99% conservative, tribal, antigay Kenyans. 8)
Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.
The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center). I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc. He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.
There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution, needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.
The notion that the left/right political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout. There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies. Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure. To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power. That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.
So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology. How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable? After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world. Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.
Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
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Robina, there is really no need to be personal-I have never seen the inside of an Ivy league classroom nor a law school classroom.
What I meant was that none liberals (lower case l) are disqualified from the presidency of Kenya because they cannot defend a constitution like ours which is purely based on a liberal political ideology. liberals can be Liberal (left of Center) or Conservative (right of center) but they all believe in the liberal political ideology which is grounded on civil liberties, democracy, equality, justice, free market, freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc.
In the US and most western European countries, all political parties are liberals in their ideology but the Democrats in the US and the labor party in the UK are Liberals (upper case L).
It is therefore important for us to know Ruto's views on the core values of the liberal political thought to gauge whether he can defend the constitution or NOT.
Nice speech. It's not unusual for an Ivy League lawyer like yourself to imagine a layman - mama mboga, boda boda rider, shoe shiner, etc - understand or even care about such jargon. While all they care about is the price of diesel, kanjo rates, soko ya mboga. A basic plan for easing their life situation suffices. Hii ideology ni mnyama gani tena?
Ati non-liberals are disqualified? That would be the 99% conservative, tribal, antigay Kenyans. 8)
Robina, stop being a Ruto apologist. Even Pundit does not apologize for him as much as you have been since that incident on your way to Damascus.
The 2010 constitution which Ruto must take the oath to defend should he become president is 100% based on the liberal political ideology. You can even say that our constitution is Liberal (left of center). I therefore believe that someone who is not a liberal is disqualified from being the president of Kenya because they cannot be anti-liberalism and still take the oath to defend it.
Ruto also claims to be digital/modern/young and western educated. I would therefore assume he is liberal because all western education is based on liberal values. We are therefore assuming that he is liberal and all we want him to do is to define himself in the liberal spectrum of left to right. In other words, we are assuming that he believes in democracy, civil liberties, freedoms of speech, association, free market economy,etc. He should therefore feel comfortable articulating his political ideology using international gold standard language for liberal political ideology.
There are more than enough Kenyans who understand these political terminologies who are interested in knowing Ruto's political ideology and therefore he should not hide in the crap that "Kenya is not mature" . The constitution demands that a president must hold a college degree even though most Kenyans do not have a college degree. I guess the rationale for that is because the president who is required to uphold the constitution, needs to have some basic understanding of the liberal concepts that the new Kitiba is based on.
The notion that the left/right political ideology definition is a straight jacket is a copout. There is enough room along the liberal spectrum to accommodate everybody. Moreover, if someone does not believe in the liberalism, then he is not only disqualified to be the president of Kenya under the current constitution and the more reason why we should demand leaders to articulate their political ideologies. Those who are not running for office like your nanny are exempt.
Ideology is as good as a person's character. My nanny's ideology is that people should work smart and retire young and rich. Yet she's over 60, poor and not contemplating retirement. This to mean what people actually do is much more useful than any ideals they proclaim. Which leads to my conclusion that Ruto's performance track record is good enough for me regardless of any ideology he may hold public or secret.
He has to have an ideology. Maybe he just does not articulate it well or at all. He seems to have time for yule mtu wa kitendawili. One would think he must have some time for articulating something germane to governance.
His party URP spelt out African traditional values and Christianity. Small, efficient government which cannot have fat layers like regions. Counties work just fine. This is my reading - you said I was making it up earlier on this thread. You must note I have been a keen observer of Ruto longer than RV Pundit. I love smart, efficient achievers so it's not necessarily for love of politics. Any outlier of interest is likely to be on my radar.
No, Ruto does not need to spell out any ideology. Kenya is not at that level and people want to hear about food, jobs, security, taxes, roads, etc which they cannot tie to any ideology and such alien concepts.
I said that because I have never heard Ruto discussing government size or structure. To be fair, I have heard him opposing the creation of new positions because he doesn't want to give Raila a panya route to power. That is about as much ideology as I have heard from the guy.
So you say he doesn't need to spell out any ideology. How is he supposed to convince people that what he promises is viable? After all he is not unique among politicians in wanting to leapfrog Kenya into middle/first world. Is that not necessary because he hopes to use the tried and tested :D MOASS?
Because Kenya is not [mature] enough for lack of a better word. If Kenyans demanded to know leaders' ideologies Ruto et al would suddenly craft simplified versions. It's where we are as a country.
Ask a layman what ideology is in Nairobi streets, see what you get. In the west people are in the right or left straightjacket. There isn't much flavor to go around even here.
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Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
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I know Ruto is not here and you do not have to feel obligated to respond on his behalf. If the concepts I am talking about are alien then Our constitution is alien too because it is 100% based on those "alien" concepts such as, civil liberties, free market, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, justice, equality, etc. I think you have lost your bearings completely.
Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
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Well, only your concepts and demands are alien not the Kenyan constitution. The man you claim is disqualified is the Deputy President and a leading contender for the presidency. Which means Kenyans don't care about ideology and other things you think make a good leader.
I can see Pundit lost bearing too on this subject. It's one of those mzungu concepts that mean zilch in Kenya.
I know Ruto is not here and you do not have to feel obligated to respond on his behalf. If the concepts I am talking about are alien then Our constitution is alien too because it is 100% based on those "alien" concepts such as, civil liberties, free market, democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of association, justice, equality, etc. I think you have lost your bearings completely.
Well, Ruto is not here Kichwa and as his nominal supporter I'm telling you I see no need for these alien concepts. I know enough about Ruto and our politicians to make up my mind. Obviously he's not a Communist nor a dictator. Regardless, Raila pushed the disqualified line following Ruto's opposition to the new constitution in 2010 and Kenyatta's lukewarm support. Kenyans didn't seem bothered so my sentiments are based on reality.
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When did Robina change , she was speaking truth here
You told us Uhuru is a lazy drunkard and a crack addict, that he and Ruto do nothing but loot. Raila would cleanse out the mess. Today you are okay with all that because your hero Raila joined the party. That's all good but at least spare us the reform line it's too cheap... cos this is not dotcom.
This is all about stopping Ruto with the motorcade as a bonus.
Stop being petty-what do you really think you achieve by calling me a worshipper-do not turn this into dot.com. Everybody can haul insults. discuss the merits.