Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: MOON Ki on November 29, 2017, 01:10:57 AM
-
At the height of his ICC "issues" Uhuru led from the front, as one would say, on the story of how Africa's "real problem" is that it has been held back by neo-colonial wazungus, but enough was enough. Africa was capable of solving its own problems, people were turning East, etc. Threats from the AU: "Meet our demands for this or that reform, or we all withdraw; and even though you folks fund most of of the AU's budget, and we constantly have to beg for it, this time we are serious!". There was some rah-rah on financial independence etc., and to start things rolling, GoK put $1 million on the table. Pap! Other countries apparently had the faith but not the money to blow on this sort of this independence stuff. So that was that. The Uhuru and his sidekick escaped the noose. The "endless problems" with the ICC bazungu also disappeared, as did the corresponding threats; and African "leaders" went back to the usual business of sending their "unfriendlies" to the court. Coverage of the ICC, including its ASP, is back to to the near-zero that it used to be. And not just in Kenya.
All of that probably has nothing to do with anything, but, for some reason, it was the first thing that came to mind when I read of what His Excellency had to say on The Great Day:
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-unveils-grand-plan-to-revive-economy/1056-4206902-ygti3wz/index.html
The President’s speech indicated that he is alive to the fact that Kenya, and Africa at large, have largely used politics for selfish gains at the expense of the countries’ prosperity.
POLITICS
He was more specific when he said: “No one eats politics.”
“For the last 50 years, we have watched as the Asian economies have risen to wealth, while much of Africa has stagnated.
"The difference is that they used politics to create vibrant economies for their people.
"In our case, we have pursued politics as an end in itself, rather than as a means to economic prosperity. This must end.”
Sober stuff. Can't argue with that. H.E. is in fact well placed to comment on how "we" have f**ked up (and are still f**king up). I have looked at much of GoK's stuff---including Vision 2030 3020---and it's not easy to see if anything has been learned from the "Asian economies" that "have risen to wealth" and are now the new point of comparison. Maybe all that is required is a "vision".
H.E. then showed his funny side: Stern Warning No. 673 issued to corrupt and lazy civil servants.
And without fearing any political implications in his last term, the President warned public servants that it will not be “business as usual”.
“I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public the quality of service they deserve from their government,” he cautioned.
CORRUPTION
During the occasion, President Kenyatta talked tough against corruption.
Smart. This would not have been the day for "Aaiieee! Ngai! Nitafanya nini!".
And so on, and so forth. Great stuff. Funny stuff. Now, as H.E. Mwai Kibaki would say, "kazi iendelee".
Kalongolongo. What a game.
-
Moonki,
Thanks for the summary. I am so against Uhuru and his friends akina waiguru that I cannot say I have ever read any of his speech. To me Uhuru is joke a bad joke being played on Kenyans
-
Moonki,
Thanks for the summary. I am so against Uhuru and his friends akina waiguru that I cannot say I have ever read any of his speech. To me Uhuru is joke a bad joke being played on Kenyans
Don't be too tough on the guy. From what I can tell, Uhuru used to be an easy-going guy, more concerned with the bottle and the weed than with anything else. The kind of guy you would want as a wingman when out looking for easy ding-dong. What he seems to lack is the strength of character that would have helped him negotiate his own path amidst the Machiavelli (for whom he was a "project"), the Junior Machiavelli (that is now his sidekick) the Dragon Lady of a mother, and the Hard Men (Michuki etc.).
What is the "issue" with Waiguru? That she is a thief? It's a country of thieves and would-be thieves. From top to bottom. Thrown out of one office for theft, elected to an even higher office by our compatriots; the only joke on Kenyans is the ones they eagerly welcome. There are those who don't like her on the basis that his His Excellency has supposedly been tapping a nice, soft one on the side. I see no problem there. The stresses of high office are what they are, and even in our times a Leader of The Free World has been known to relax with a bit of the nice and soft on the side ... some initial brouhaha, but with all-around understanding at the end.
The most important thing about Ms. Waiguru is that, given the way our political systems work, she is pretty good 2022-VP-candidate on that side.
Anyways ...
I consider that part of Uhuru's speech to be significant, even though I consider the entire speech to be mostly meaningless and useless and whatever-less for any Kenyan who expects any real change in the next five years. What is significant about that bit is that we actually have a "prominent" African "leader"---don't forget "middle class", "economic powerhouse of East Africa", "Silicon Savanah", etc.----get up and say "it's just that we are perpetual victims of neo-colonialism, and the Asians keep getting oodles of FDI and whatever; it's time to look at reality and admit that we have f**ked up". It's like those rehab programs or whatever: the first step---and it's a huge one---is just getting the dope-fiend to admit that he has some control over his choices, and he just can't keep saying that he must snort or shoot up until the world stops doing whatever to him.
-
The usual nonsense. There is lots of emperical data out there showing Uhuru has been nothing but a transformative leader. He has done great.
-
You and I are also responsible for Kenya's dismal performance by our little or missing input. Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we? If you're starkly aware of the flaws you're best placed to fix them. It's not just Uhuru's or Raila's job.
Kamilisha:
Ask not what your country can do for you.....
-
You and I are also responsible for Kenya's dismal performance by our little or missing input. Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we? If you're starkly aware of the flaws you're best placed to fix them. It's not just Uhuru's or Raila's job.
Kamilisha:
Ask not what your country can do for you.....
I couldn't agree more. How come there're no serious companies being started by us africans? All the pieces are in place, and by the very fact that we're under developed it means there are more opportunities to be exploited. We have this propensity to blame everybody else but us.
-
Haha hk don't ask. Apparently the reason for lack of serious enterprise is Uhuru. It's possible some industrialists here have been denied licenses to setup Manufacturing 2.0. The more the problems the bigger the opportunity.
-
Haha hk don't ask. Apparently the reason for lack of serious enterprise is Uhuru. It's possible some industrialists here have been denied licenses to setup Manufacturing 2.0. The more the problems the bigger the opportunity.
Very true:
Ethiopia is the world’s fastest growing economy.
(http://)
If you doubt that, watch CNN’s recent One Square Meter Report which highlighted this second-most populous nation in Africa whose economy has consistently grown by double digits over the past 10 years.
Several industrial parks have been built and more are coming up. There are four operational industrial parks, three of which are privately owned.
They include the Eastern Industrial Zone at Dukem, the Lebu Industrial Zone which is owned by Huajian Group, and Modjo Industrial Zone owned by George Shoe. A government-owned industrial park, Bole Lemi Industrial Zone is also coming up.
Ethiopians are taking advantage of Africa’s population dividend to target investors moving out of China, and providing a soft landing for them in Ethiopia.
Their flagship Ethiopia Industrial Park, which would put our Konza to shame, is coming up, connected to Addis with the ultra-modern Modjo-Hawassa Expressway.
Related Content
Construction of the 700-acre Hawassa Industrial Park started last year. It will accommodate 35 factory sheds and 19 exhibition halls, food courts, dormitories, and other required facilities in the first phase. The country aims to become Africa’s hub for manufacturing.
Ethiopia has identified textile, agro-processing, leather, light electronic manufacturing and other labour intensive industries to absorb the massive number of youths who are unemployed.
The Chinese have financed and built most of these industrial parks. Whenever they encounter African indiscipline, they instill the discipline themselves through rather harsh measures.
Consequently, Ethiopia is now Africa’s leading exporter of boots to US under the African Growth Opportunity Act (AGOA).
It is not just industrial parks they are building. At the Africa Economic Commission for Africa experts meeting, Arkkebe Oqubay, Minister and Special Advisor to the Prime Minister, explained the source of their success.
“We realised that of the 1 million university students, more than 80 per cent were in arts. We headed to Germany and sought cooperation in higher learning. Today more than 80 per cent of the students are into science and technology,” he said. “We linked our learning institutions to industry. We still have 400 German educationists transplanting their system into Ethiopia.”
In addition to more than 40 public universities, Ethiopia has also created and equipped several technical institutions.
The import of all this is that Ethiopia is not just offering highly educated cheap labour but also fast improving power supply, transport and other infrastructure.
While we are still celebrating the Thika Superhighway, they were building expressways into the country’s interior. Ethiopia also built the first light rail system in East Africa and is now leveraging the technology transfer to build a rail network throughout the country and possibly into neighbouring countries.
In contrast, we have left it to the Chinese to complete our Standard Gauge Railway and stay on to provide maintenance services.
MINISTER 'ABRUPTLY TRAVELLED'
They are also likely to be invited to build future SGR extensions. Nobody is seriously concerned about Chinese technology transfer in Kenya.
The indiscipline and the lack of patriotism of our civil engineering firms, coupled with government inability or unwillingness to properly supervise them, means that the Chinese will be building public works in Kenya long after Ethiopians become really good at it.
Who knows, in future the Ethiopians might even replace the Chinese as builders of Kenyan public works!
Investors in Ethiopia are happy that the government is taking the initiative and delivering on promises. They are flocking in, and the many hotel brands that have mushroomed all over Addis Ababa are not disappointed.
During the reception at the Radisson Blue, I meet a group of European investors and this is what they told me. Initially, their desire was to set up in Kenya and grow their business to other parts of Africa.
They travelled to Nairobi. Through a local contact, they tried to set up an appointment with the Minister but after several days in Nairobi, the appointment never materialised.
They went back to Europe, saying they would try to get a firm appointment before coming back to Kenya. Eventually, the appointment was set up and they travelled to Kenya.
On reaching the Ministry, they were told that the Minister would not be in. He had abruptly travelled, without sending an apology to his guests.
A Director at the Ministry met with them and since he could not commit in anything, they achieved nothing.
But they had one last hope. That evening, they were to meet with a county Governor for dinner. The Governor showed up late with his wife, giving excuses that they had had a long drive and the traffic was unbearable.
SPEED OF ACTION
As they talked, the county Governor’s wife interrupted to tell the investors that she was setting up a children’s home and she would need Sh10 million donation to set off the project.
By this time they had made up their mind that Kenya was not going to be the place to invest. They politely paid for the dinner and left without mentioning the reason why they wanted to talk to the Governor.
To their surprise, the Governor did not ask what the purpose of their meeting was. With their Kenyan link, they decided to give Ethiopia a try.
One phone call and an Ethiopian official on a Tuesday morning secured an appointment the next day, Wednesday. They travelled to Ethiopia and were met at the Airport.
To their amazement, they were driven to the prestigious Sheraton Hotel by a retinue of vehicles led by a police car with a siren. In the evening, the Foreign Ministry had arranged a dinner with two other Ministers.
During the dinner, they were asked what kind of investment they were interested in. After explaining what they wanted, they were told that the following morning they would meet with the Governor of Oromia.
After breakfast on Thursday, they were driven to Oromia. The Governor was waiting for them. They were promptly shown three sites where they could put up the investment.
By 1pm, they had signed up a memorandum of understanding. Slightly more than three months later, they are through with the initial infrastructure on the ground.
With this speed of action, it does not surprise me why the Ethiopians are re-writing the story of economic transformation.
Kenyans may argue that they are a better democracy than Ethiopia, but that won’t stop a bloody revolution by dissatisfied, unemployed, hopeless youth who discover their leaders have grabbed everything including the entire Export Processing Zones.
FALLING THROUGH OUR FINGERS
Let us not just simplify corruption to mean stolen money. We must expand the definition of corruption to also include impeding progress.
Corruption must be understood by all its synonyms which, as per the Merrian-Webster Dictionary include: “alteration, falsification, doctoring, manipulation, manipulating, fudging, adulteration, debasement, degradation, abuse, subversion, misrepresentation, misapplication, breakdown, decay, decomposition, festering, putrefaction, putrescence, rot, spoilage.”
Fellow Kenyans, this is not the Ethiopia of 30 years where gun-toting youths met you at Bole International Airport. This is a country of patriots who know exactly where they want to take their country – and are succeeding.
Ethiopian leaders are not shooting themselves in the foot. They are thinking about their poor people, not just about lining their pockets. They appear to understand that the fate of all Ethiopians is inextricably intertwined – the fate of leaders and the led.
Sadly, this does not appear to be the case in Kenya. Until we put our national interests ahead of our own selfishness, we may never get near where Ethiopia has reached.
Our preoccupation with land is our undoing. The pride that Kenya is the largest economy in the region is fading fast. It is not the size of the economy that matters but rather how many of our people are escaping poverty and are benefitting from this size.
We must create employment for our youth and avoid the nasty consequences of our inaction, which will likely follow if we do not act to avert the creeping discontent.
Far too many opportunities are falling through our fingers. These opportunities come along only but once. We may never see them again.
ROOM FOR RISK-TAKING
We must foster good leadership devoid of threats, leverage our democracy to consult with the people, act within reasonable time and mind the national interest.
Above all, we must live by the rule of law. Selective justice, mob justice and failure to take personal responsibility for our actions, which happens to be the trademark of our culture, undermine the rule of law.
We must create room for risk taking that is necessary to propel our country to greater heights. Many Kenyans with or without leadership would die for their country but there must be political will to drive Kenya as a team.
Ethiopian leadership, through a combination of credibility born out of honest, patriotic, strategic leadership and high-handedness against dissenters, has galvanised the country with one specific objective – Prosperity.
The question we must ask ourselves, all of us, whether we are in government or the opposition, is: do ordinary Kenyans see us as honest people who are working for and minding their welfare or do they see as us all as competing, directionless monsters?
Do we really love Kenya? Do we love fellow Kenyans? Do our actions and utterances show this love for all Kenyans, regardless of ethnic origin?
John F. Kennedy said, “Economic growth without social progress lets the great majority of people remain in poverty, while a privileged few reap the benefits of rising abundance.”
As we take stock of economic growth, let us also ensure there is social progress. The measure of success in this modern day is how inclusive our economic growth is.
I could personally write a book on the trials and tribulations I first went through when I started my business in .ke, ranging from corrupt KRA staff, city council, cops (I started with the importation of containers of 2nd hand spares in the days when the police had to verify the contents when the container was opened. I still had to part with 30k monthly to the OCS.), etc. It was a very steep learning curve.
I'm not the only one, as can be read in this infamous thread: Have you ever failed flat in business? (http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=34618)
For those not inclined to read through the whole posting, this one comment from the thread sums it up very nicely:
Nabwire I hear you.
The turnover rate of my friends who came back is 99%. I'm the only one who's stayed. The rest, just got tired of the nonsense in this country.
Why is it that its easier for me to borrow in a bank in a country that calls me a nigger but entering a banking hall in my own country, I have to leave my children's names and numbers at the door?
Incredible taxation from central and local gov't. Not taxes that you pay but what they come up with when they visit your office.
Employees who think that their work is to sit down on their computers and comment upus on wazua. I was once told that my hiring skills were bad, so I decided to hire in India. No problems there at all.
I'll speak about my industry which shall remain nameless.
Most of the companies offering these services are just plain charlatans. I was once hounded for weeks ati because I was to give someone sijui 30% for a contract. Kubaff...I had not even sought the contract, they had sought me. I told them to go to hell.....on foot.
I have been asked for proposals....Another con game. You send your proposal, they tell their buddy what to quote on theirs. So I don't send proposals anymore.
I have been given a contract then it suddenly changes on pay date. For those ones I just walk out the door. I still have some guy trolling me on FB because of that. He couldn't believe someone could walk away from such a sum.
I don't believe there are good stories on entreprenuership in Kenya simply because the system is not made that way. The system is simple.
1. You bribe a journalist with 10k to write about how rich you are
2. You get calls from gate keepers who ask you for a bribe to meet the guy
3. The guy agrees, you then have to bribe them to get the contract signed
4. Then you have to bribe them to get your payment processed
5. Then you have to take them out to celebrate.
This is upus. Especially in my industry where it would be cheaper just to spam you and get it over with.
That is why a lot of Kenyans would rather get paid a paycheck than go forward with a business idea. See the story of Able wire. Super idea that can change Africa and the world, yet he's expected to bribe his way into super stardom
Pole sana Nabwire. I understand.
As for the topic OP, yes I've fallen flat. Couldn't even pay my rent. Food shida...
I'm only breathing when I realised that Kenya sio mama ao baba yangu...Looked outside the borders and somehow, others value effort. Hapa ni ukora tu.
I've experienced all that. At the end of it all, I had no other option than to adapt to the reality so as to survive.
-
The usual nonsense. There is lots of emperical data out there showing Uhuru has been nothing but a transformative leader. He has done great.
Which part is the nonsense? The part where Uhuru said this?
“For the last 50 years, we have watched as the Asian economies have risen to wealth, while much of Africa has stagnated.
"The difference is that they used politics to create vibrant economies for their people.
"In our case, we have pursued politics as an end in itself, rather than as a means to economic prosperity. This must end.”
That seems to be new on his part. It also seems to be a plain statement of fact; so I wouldn't call it nonsense.
This, however, was definitely his usual nonsense:
And without fearing any political implications in his last term, the President warned public servants that it will not be “business as usual”.
“I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public the quality of service they deserve from their government,” he cautioned.
We have had it 100 times without anything happening.
You and empirical data? That pretty funny!
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
-
Empedocles,
Kenya has lots of problem especially about harassment from COTU, council, police kra etc. But mostly it depends on the industry. However most of the enterprises being started are just copy and paste stuff. There's hardly any disruption in most sectors which points to low level of innovation.
-
Empedocles,
Kenya has lots of problem especially about harassment from COTU, council, police kra etc. But mostly it depends on the industry. However most of the enterprises being started are just copy and paste stuff. There's hardly any disruption in most sectors which points to low level of innovation.
That could be so. How do you think the levels of innovation in a place like Kenya can be improved? It is interesting to look at how East Asian countries that started with plenty of copy-and-paste have gone on to do very well. In 1963, South Korea was a poor agrarian economy; last year it was No. 1 in the world on the 2016 Bloomberg Innovation Index. What would you say has been key in their success? Perhaps we can learn from such.
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
-
Empedocles,
Kenya has lots of problem especially about harassment from COTU, council, police kra etc. But mostly it depends on the industry. However most of the enterprises being started are just copy and paste stuff. There's hardly any disruption in most sectors which points to low level of innovation.
That could be so. How do you think the levels of innovation in a place like Kenya can be improved? It is interesting to look at how East Asian countries that started with plenty of copy-and-paste have gone on to do very well. In 1963, South Korea was a poor agrarian economy; last year it was No. 1 in the world on the 2016 Bloomberg Innovation Index. What would you say has been key in their success? Perhaps we can learn from such.
Kenya has no innovation culture. How many patents are filed every year? Very few going by KIPI records. How much do companies spend on R&D? Very little indeed. Any patent laws?
Most of the funds - like Spark, or even Uwezo - are for typical investments - the "copycats". Innovation means solving real problems - like drought, internet access, education, etc. I see BRCK as one of those - manufacturing low-cost, off-grid hifi gadgets for internet access. https://www.brck.com/ (https://www.brck.com/)
M-Kopa, OneAcre Fund, SunCulture are good examples of innovative companies. A new M-pesa agent or Chicken Inn on the other hand not so much.
There was an auto maker in the news sometime. Mobius? That's good if they can hack the economics and the politics.
To inculcate innovation one area is our education. The talk of half-baked or misskilled graduates is real. We have had overhauls and reviews in basic education but not college. Besides the traditional college we need more Andela type of initiatives. I wish the likes of Udacity and U2 would invest in Kenya and East Africa. I know it's a stretch to tell people dying to make it to Kenyan university that it's probably the wrong place to go at this juncture.
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.
-
Empedocles,
Kenya has lots of problem especially about harassment from COTU, council, police kra etc. But mostly it depends on the industry. However most of the enterprises being started are just copy and paste stuff. There's hardly any disruption in most sectors which points to low level of innovation.
That could be so. How do you think the levels of innovation in a place like Kenya can be improved? It is interesting to look at how East Asian countries that started with plenty of copy-and-paste have gone on to do very well. In 1963, South Korea was a poor agrarian economy; last year it was No. 1 in the world on the 2016 Bloomberg Innovation Index. What would you say has been key in their success? Perhaps we can learn from such.
I think the key is productivity, if its farming to produce more. productivity hasn't kept up with improvements in things like child mortality rates. Copying and pasting from different countries is ok, I meant the me too businesses where kenyans just copying each other because those companies are easily replicated.
-
Of course you're nitpicker who never see the big picture however much we try. Facts are right there in Uhuru speech. For example, Uhuru has introduced business reforms that are well captured by WB's "Ease of Doing business" that has seen Kenya jump 60 positions - to position 80 -- top 3 in Africa - and has been on most improved WB list the last 2-3 years. In short Uhuru has made it easy for anyone to start and do business in kenya - so if somebody has no started or prospered in business - Uhuru is less to blame now than when he became pork.
Uhuru is promising to continue on that reform agenda - and put kenya in top 50 - or well the best place to do business in Africa.That and many other transformations is the reason some of us queued and vote Uhuru twice on 8th August and 26th October.
Now if after Kenya has become the easiest place to do business - naturally you expect more business to flourish, fdi to increase and more economic development. That just don't happen. UhuRuto have made it happen! something Kibadinga never did it.
You and empirical data? That pretty funny!
-
Here is 530Km lapsset highway that Uhuru may deliver and you'll still blame him for everything!
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/economy/530-km-Lapsset-highway-construction-starts-next-year/3946234-4207938-cq0pbp/index.html
-
Kenya has no innovation culture. How many patents are filed every year? Very few going by KIPI records. How much do companies spend on R&D? Very little indeed. Any patent laws?
South Korea was once in that same spot. Companies investing in R & D there now account for most of the R & D, but that was not always so. I have a paper on innovation in their R & D, and it gives us some idea of what happened:
Science, technology, and innovation have been cited as one of the key factors behind
the economic success of the Republic of Korea.
...
In the 1960s Korea was barren in the fields of science and technology.
...
In the early stage of development, the government’s economic development projects were the major force driving R&D and innovation in Korea.
...
To help industries to adopt new technologies, the government created govern-
ment R&D institutes in the fields of heavy machinery and chemicals, such as the
Korea Institute of Machinery and Metals, the Electronics and Telecommunications
Research Institute, the Korea Research Institute of Chemical Technology, the Korea
Research Institute of Standards and Science, the Korea Institute for Energy
Research, and the Korea Ocean R&D Institute. These institutes worked with private
industries to build a technological foundation for industrial development.
...
While promoting technological learning for industrialization, the government also
made efforts to build a base for science and technology (S&T) development during
this period. The Science and Technology Promotion Act and the Science Education
Act were passed in 1967 as a legal base for S&T development. The Korea Institute
of Science and Technology (KIST) was established in 1966, followed in 1967 by the
Ministry of Science and Technology (MOST), the central government agency respon-
sible for S&T policy. In 1970 the government enacted the Korea Advanced Institute
of Sciences Act, which created the basis for the Korea Advanced Institute of Sciences
(KAIS; currently KAIST). KIST was the first organization dedicated strictly to R&D
in Korea
...
In 1974 the government started construction of the Daeduk Science Town,
where many public and private R&D institutes, including the government research
and development institutes, are now clustered.
...
How Korea Has Been Able to Build Up Indigenous R&D Capability:
The government responded to the changes in the technology environment by
launching the National R&D Program in 1982 and taking various policy measures
to promote and facilitate private R&D activities, including tax incentives, financial
assistance, procurement, and other promotional actions.
...
After 1980, it [the government] shifted toward nurturing indigenous R&D capability and, at
the same time, promoting and facilitating private industrial R&D.
This marked a turning point for the Korean innovation system.
...
So, in the early development process, the
government played the role not only of planner and rule setter but also of financier.
This was particularly true in the areas of R&D and innovation.
...
Private industries responded to the changes in policy by investing massive amounts
in R&D.
In Kenya, "Science Technology and Innovation" is a "key sector in Vision 2030. Here is the relevant webpage:
http://www.vision2030.go.ke/sectors/?sc=3
Click on the links and see how science, technology, and innovation are about to be transformed in Kenya. :D
Kenya also has the "Kenya Industrial Research and Development Institute (KIRDI), a national research institute established in 1979". This institute supposedly also supports Vision 2030 and in fact has a lot to say on that. So, what are they doing in an important area like ICT? Here it is:
http://www.kirdi.go.ke/index.php/core-divisions/rti/ict-research
Not particularly informative; so I look elsewhere to try and find more on what exactly they are doing. There is a "research, technology, and innovation" report here:
http://www.kirdi.go.ke/index.php/more/files/category/4-research-report
It is dated 2009.
KIRDI also makes available its Strategic Plan, here:
http://www.kirdi.go.ke/index.php/more/files/category/3-strategic-plan
Bizarre. The things reads like the stuff companies issue as some sort of annual report or whatever, or the kind of fuzz people produce for funding bodies---not the strategic plan of a national R & D institute that will play a leading role in the industrial transformation of the country.
Page 17-18 has a list of the national research institute's "key achievements" for the period 2010-2015. Here's a sample:
* Supply of 840 Arc Welding Machines for use by the Constituency Industrial Development Centres (CIDCs);
* Completion of 150 hospital beds for distribution to hospitals in Kenya.
* Establishment and operationalization of honey processing plant in West Pokot
County.
* ...
WTF! Seriously? This is the R &D for Vision-2030 industrialization? From a national R & D institute?
One of the things I was looking for in the report was anything to do with the ICT Research unit. That unit does not appear to have achieved anything during 2010-2015. I did, however, find a sentence on ICT:
"weakness: Low adoption of ICT in the Institute’s operations."
Still, plenty of good crap on Vision 2030.
-
MOON Ki am sure there is a longer treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea and the Tigers. That is a story on the government.
Kenya's private sector is a joke. The private citizens - Wanjiku - have performed much worse than the state. Yet too many blunderers scapegoat Uhuru and Moi for their own absolute failure. I would be hard pressed to give the government 30% of the responsibility. If you are a D scoring tarmacker - the ugly duckling foundress of nothing - sorry Kibaki did not steal your fortune.
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.
What do you expect Uhuru to do?
-
MOON Ki am sure there is a longer treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea and the Tigers. That is a story on the government.
If you have in mind any particular "treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea", I'd be happy to discuss it in relation to the role of government in South Korea's economic growth, private sector, etc.
The South Korean private sector is dominated by the chaebols ("conglomerates" as a loose translation); the Samsung chaebol alone accounts for something like 20% of GDP. See if you can separate the current position of the chaebols from the government interventions such as those I have cited. The report---which, by the way the author claims just "reviews the developments of science and technology in Korea, evaluates their impacts on industrial development"---has this to say:
As an alternative to foreign licensing, Korea financed industrial investments through long-term foreign loans. The Korean government brought in large-scale foreign loans and allocated them to investments in select industries, leading to massive importation of foreign capital goods and turnkey plants. Industries later reverse-engineered the imported capital goods for the purpose of acquiring needed technologies. The government selected not only the target industries for investment but also the entrepreneurs who would implement the new investment projects, and some of those entrepreneurs later became the owners of “chaebols”
I would, for example, be interested in your thoughts on Samsung's entry into electronics and any role that the government had to play in its subsequent rise.
Kenya's private sector is a joke. The private citizens - Wanjiku - have performed much worse than the state. Yet too many blunderers scapegoat Uhuru and Moi for their own absolute failure. I would be hard pressed to give the government 30% of the responsibility. If you are a D scoring tarmacker - the ugly duckling foundress of nothing - sorry Kibaki did not steal your fortune.
Interesting. Earlier you wrote that:
To inculcate innovation one area is our education. The talk of half-baked or misskilled graduates is real. We have had overhauls and reviews in basic education but not college.
Seems true enough. This was a big point in the World Bank's "shared prosperity" report from last year; the WB emphasized the need to improve the quality of education. Now, who should lead on that? Wanjiku or GoK? How do you propose that Wanjiku "review and overhaul" education at the tertiary level? Extrapolate from her "overhauls and reviews in basic education"?
Forget D-. How does an A+/B.Sc.(1st Class) in Low-Quality Crap, from one of our "leading" public universities, get to succeed?
-
There is a widespread bias called "the just world fallacy" embedded in human minds and invisible to most. People might want to look it up. Will help contextualize some puzzling views here and elsewhere.
The long short of it is this, though: This world is a fair system where bad things and good things only happen to the deserving accordingly. Basically, if you are struggling and losing in the game of life (this preceding line is a direct quote from a post talking about this very topic) then it must in some way be your own fault. If you are winning, it must also be to your own credit.
This can come across as madharau for underpriviledged and struggling persons, unlucky persons etc and/or hero-worship on the other end.
Its very illogical but it seems to be something the human brain devised to help people shield themselves from an overbearing awareness of the suffering of others.
-
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally on anecdotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really? How did M-pesa thrive? Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Empirical data that compare economies of our scale and size.
For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.
Here is the latest from WEF's The Global Competitiveness Report for 2017-2018
On innovation, Kenya ranks 37th globally, with a score of 3.8, followed closely by South Africa with a similar score but ranked 39th and Nigeria falling behind with a score of 2.8 and ranked 119th globally.Kenya ranks 41 in technological adoption with a score of 5.0, South Africa ranks 45 with a 4.9 score and Nigeria ranks 87 with a 4.3 score.
http://www.techweez.com/2017/10/18/gcr-2017-kenya-innovation/
-
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.
People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.
-
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.
People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.
Even if suppose one got ahead on their own ingenuity. That is great. But it cannot be the basis for a good general solution. A good solution pulls up the average person. An environment that only rewards geniuses is not going to get the place very far.
-
Small consolation for the legions of unemployed and underemployed youth who are entirely to blame for their own lack of education (or the crappy one they got), lack of jobs, connections, capital, and so much more stuff that everyone here had access to in some way at a certain point in life. If only they were as hardworking as our privileged nipateans, they would be posting here about such instead of out there trying to resolve the dilemma between crime and mjengo.
People need to know that even though you may have worked hard, you also had a lot of helps along the way, many of them invisible. Assuming that those on the bottom end are there just cause they deserve it is tea party insanity.
Even if suppose one got ahead on their own ingenuity. That is great. But it cannot be the basis for a good general solution. A good solution pulls up the average person. An environment that only rewards geniuses is not going to get the place very far.
Absolutely. A good solution takes care of the D minus student, not just the Alliance graduates. Even being very good at school is a privilege since no one merits the kinds of talents they are born with. Dumb luck ecplains a lot of good fortune many enjoy. We should aim for a humane society that looks out for people because they are people. Leave tea partysm to nutty Americans.
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.
What do you expect Uhuru to do?
Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.
-
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally ancedotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really?
Talk to your side-kick, Robina. She wrote this:
Kenya has no innovation culture. How many patents are filed every year? Very few going by KIPI records. How much do companies spend on R&D? Very little indeed. Any patent laws?
Maybe you can giver her direct answers to her questions. Tell her about the patents and R & D spending and whatever. (I too would be interested in the number of patents issued by folks in Kenya. Please help with the innovative info.)
How did M-pesa thrive?
One good idea from a mzungu. Can't dine on that alone forever. Any other examples? What exactly are the innovations?
Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Emperical data that compare economies of our scale and size.
If you specify what you mean by "size" and "stage of development", then we can have a fruitful discussion. For example, should we compare with South Korea in 1960 or 1970 or whatever? Or some other countries of your choosing.
For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.
So? Doing well among a questionable lot. Big deal.
Beyond that, I would encourage you to look around a bit more and get what you call "the big picture".
Now, please read this carefully:
First, I encourage you to read a bit more widely and to work on a better understanding of whatever is in front of you. Aim for a broader and deeper understanding of what is being discussed; don't immediately start jerking off on the basis of one report.
I thought it would be obvious, especially given my examples, that I was commenting on ... R & D and especially with respect to innovations that lead to the sort of industrialization etc that produces significant improvements in economic and social well-being. Please read that again and make sure you get it.
The report you refer to does not give a great deal of detail on country. For Kenya, I would suggest last year's "shared prosperity" report from the World Bank. (I have the .pdf but will later find and post a link.) Pay careful attention to the points that Robina and hk (?) have also made.
Like most of its reports, this one from the World Bank tries to "focus on the positive", but pay careful attention to the rest. It says that Kenya is innovative. But in what exactly?
The results from a 2014 innovation survey (World Bank Enterprise Survey 2014) suggest that the likelihood of Kenyan firms to innovate is high compared with firms in several other countries (Figure ES.11), although the subjective nature of the results makes cross-country comparisons challenging (Spotlight 4 at the end of chapter 4).
Nevertheless, although most firms say they have introduced some type of product or process innovation, only a few have actually come up with things that are new to the domestic market. The fact that these innovations have not been accompanied by productivity gains in most cases confirms the point that Kenya still has a long way to go. And when actual investment in innovation is compared across countries, the magnitude of innovation of Kenyan firms becomes less impressive. The share of firms spending on research and development (R&D) in Kenya is 40 percent lower than in Ghana or the Arab Republic of Egypt, and less than 50 percent that in South Africa. And a relatively lower share of Kenyan firms acquire machinery, equipment, and software, and the same argument holds for spending on training.
That's the sort of stuff on which we can have a reasonable discussion beyond basic rankings. I also do a lot of work that is related to IP, especially in Asia, so I'm doubly keen to hear more of these great Kenyan innovations you have in mind.
So, if you wish to proceed, a starting point would be to contradict the report by stating and giving examples of how:
(a) Kenyan innovation has actually produced "actually come up with things that are new to the domestic market".
(b) how whatever innovations there are contradict the claim that "these innovations have not been accompanied by productivity gains".
With respect to the type of innovation I was discussing, Korea has grown rich from IP, all sorts of new stuff that the rest of the world is willing to pay big bucks for, etc. What are Kenya's innovations that anyone outside Kenya (or within Kenya but with a choice) is willing to pay real money for? No need for a lengthy back-and-forth. And, please, not M-Pesa again!
Innovation is not an end to itself. That's a long discussion, but I will first wait for your responses to (a) and (b). We'll then move to, say, comparing Kenya and Korea---on both the type of innovation I was focusing on and whatever type of innovation you have in mind. But let's keep it small to start with and work on (a) and (b).
OK, let's go.
-
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.
-
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.
So is Wanjiku to blame for that sheer dumb misfortune as you stated or is she not?
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.
What do you expect Uhuru to do?
Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.
Why hasn't he done this? Is it possible his hands are tied? And why should it matter what goes on in those agencies if there is innovation?
-
Absolutely. A good solution takes care of the D minus student, not just the Alliance graduates. Even being very good at school is a privilege since no one merits the kinds of talents they are born with. Dumb luck ecplains a lot of good fortune many enjoy. We should aim for a humane society that looks out for people because they are people. Leave tea partysm to nutty Americans.
Yep. I was just reflecting on such things the other day. I always worked very hard at my studies and was never a D- student or even close. But luck and supportive environments have been very helpful. I don't know how I would survive in today's Kenya if I were told that "look at this index; ease of business is improving; so get out there!".
A little story: A couple of weeks ago, a nephew contacted me asking for some financial help in the new-and-improved "easy business environment" in Kenya. Hardworking chap, great ideas, A grade. But no capital or collateral for a loan. Couldn't get sh*t in Kenya. I have some friends in South Korea, and their government has an organization that focuses on "small man, no money, no collateral .... but great ideas". So things are moving forward. The financial split at the end? Hmm.
-
MOON Ki am sure there is a longer treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea and the Tigers. That is a story on the government.
If you have in mind any particular "treatise and literature on the role of the private sector in the rise of South Korea", I'd be happy to discuss it in relation to the role of government in South Korea's economic growth, private sector, etc.
The South Korean private sector is dominated by the chaebols ("conglomerates" as a loose translation); the Samsung chaebol alone accounts for something like 20% of GDP. See if you can separate the current position of the chaebols from the government interventions such as those I have cited. The report---which, by the way the author claims just "reviews the developments of science and technology in Korea, evaluates their impacts on industrial development"---has this to say:
As an alternative to foreign licensing, Korea financed industrial investments through long-term foreign loans. The Korean government brought in large-scale foreign loans and allocated them to investments in select industries, leading to massive importation of foreign capital goods and turnkey plants. Industries later reverse-engineered the imported capital goods for the purpose of acquiring needed technologies. The government selected not only the target industries for investment but also the entrepreneurs who would implement the new investment projects, and some of those entrepreneurs later became the owners of “chaebols”
I would, for example, be interested in your thoughts on Samsung's entry into electronics and any role that the government had to play in its subsequent rise.
If you pick on the South Korean box and want similarities: Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy. South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.
I contend that the Kenya private citizenry - the mzungu-led M-Kopa, SunCulture, etc notwithstanding - have been less active and robust than GOK in contributing to the economy. For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats. I believe in the law of averages. Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.
Kenya's private sector is a joke. The private citizens - Wanjiku - have performed much worse than the state. Yet too many blunderers scapegoat Uhuru and Moi for their own absolute failure. I would be hard pressed to give the government 30% of the responsibility. If you are a D scoring tarmacker - the ugly duckling foundress of nothing - sorry Kibaki did not steal your fortune.
Interesting. Earlier you wrote that:
To inculcate innovation one area is our education. The talk of half-baked or misskilled graduates is real. We have had overhauls and reviews in basic education but not college.
Seems true enough. This was a big point in the World Bank's "shared prosperity" report from last year; the WB emphasized the need to improve the quality of education. Now, who should lead on that? Wanjiku or GoK? How do you propose that Wanjiku "review and overhaul" education at the tertiary level? Extrapolate from her "overhauls and reviews in basic education"?
Forget D-. How does an A+/B.Sc.(1st Class) in Low-Quality Crap, from one of our "leading" public universities, get to succeed?
The private sector is better placed than the state to solve the quality of education problem. The state can pull up its socks to a better level like we have in the developed world but will still need the competitive private sector to keep up with the industry. There is an argument that the private sector knows best what it requires. The university and corporate training ultimately merge. In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over. This is because they are nimbler, meaner, privately funded and thus very innovative.
-
I'm sure once we're done moralizing we'll get right back onto the subject. Sorry Wanjiku does not get a pass. Those sufferers or slum dwellers are there principally because of that very dumb misfortune of birth in a poor third world country. Perhaps too with the unlucky gene and no tall relative. Uhuru and the government are a distant second or third as the cause of misery.
I think Wanjiku can make better choices with her vote, and I have expressed my views in that point. People may disagree on that. But Wanjiku's electoral choices have nothing to do with the government obligations.
Once a government is in place, it has certain obligations and there are certain expectations of it. Whether the government is the 1st or 2ns or whatever cause of their misery has nothing to do with the fact that the key point of the government is in fact to help them get past their misery ... basic decent education, healthcare, and whatever.
-
Great but not enough. We need to aim at top 10 on all indices. We need a hundred Safaricoms to make it. I believe in leapfrogs more than organic growth.
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally on anecdotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really? How did M-pesa thrive? Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Empirical data that compare economies of our scale and size.
For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.
Here is the latest from WEF's The Global Competitiveness Report for 2017-2018
On innovation, Kenya ranks 37th globally, with a score of 3.8, followed closely by South Africa with a similar score but ranked 39th and Nigeria falling behind with a score of 2.8 and ranked 119th globally.Kenya ranks 41 in technological adoption with a score of 5.0, South Africa ranks 45 with a 4.9 score and Nigeria ranks 87 with a 4.3 score.
http://www.techweez.com/2017/10/18/gcr-2017-kenya-innovation/
-
Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy.
Government support and mzungu's M-Pesa. Interesting.
South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.
For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats.
No need to get into vague generalities. I noted the Korean government's role in that country's industry; I also noted what the Kenyan government is doing w.r.t. to the "Vision 2030" industrialization stuff. It's all up there for anyone who wants to make a comparison.
Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.
Interesting. And you could well be right. But before we get into that, I have tried to highlight the differences between how the South Korean government has gone about certain things and how the Kenyan government is going about things. Perhaps you can tell me the Kenyan government is doing (or has been doing) that comes even remotely close.
In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over. This is because they are nimbler, meaner, privately funded and thus very innovative.
That is really, really funny!
-
Why should Uhuru be more exceptional than we?
Because he is the president and the head the government?
Because the political power of his position gives him a lot more say in what he complained about, i.e. the use of "politics for selfish gains at the expense of the country's prosperity"?
Because he actually has the powers to do what he says, as in "I will not allow faceless bureaucrats and functionaries to deny the public [we] the quality of service they deserve from their government"?
Should I go on and add to the list, or does that give some idea?
Kamwana's job is pomp and pageantry and ruling. Why would anyone expect him to fix shit? :-\
I expect so much better than he has done. I'm not his fan. What have you done as a private citizen? That's a very pertinent question few will answer with pride. Our private sector is dead as a dodo because of an absence of talent and enterprise. Much more than political failures.
What do you expect Uhuru to do?
Stamp out slaggards Magufuli-style for one. At KPLC, KAA and various state agencies.
Why hasn't he done this? Is it possible his hands are tied? And why should it matter what goes on in those agencies if there is innovation?
I don't know what he is waiting for? He swears he will do it immediately in a matter of days.
-
Safaricom was set up by the government. KCB too. These are the biggest companies in the East & Central Africa region. They had much more state input than Samsung. Safaricom is 20% of the NSE and a significant contributor to the economy.
Government support and mzungu's M-Pesa. Interesting.
South Korea has a plethora of private enterprises besides Samsung that have ballooned the economy. Founded and run by the citizens of South Korea. Not so in Kenya.
For these shortcomings Uhuru, the constitution, "the system", etc are their favorite scapegoats.
No need to get into vague generalities. I noted the Korean government's role in that country's industry; I also noted what the Kenyan government is doing w.r.t. to the "Vision 2030" industrialization stuff. It's all up there for anyone who wants to make a comparison.
Nothing short of Wanjiku's severe enterprise will uplift Kenya into South Korea even if the Pope ran the country.
Interesting. And you could well be right. But before we get into that, I have tried to highlight the differences between how the South Korean government has gone about certain things and how the Kenyan government is going about things. Perhaps you can tell me the Kenyan government is doing (or has been doing) that comes even remotely close.
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
-
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
-
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
Exactly how have you determined that GoK has done much better than a "whining" Wanjiku:
On Vision 2030 3020 Wanjiku has been paying the taxes for that little eating joke. What exactly is it that you have Wanjiku do to "attempt to meet the government halfway"?
-
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
Interesting stuff. And I'd be happy to discuss it at another time. Right now, my main interest is this: what exactly does GoK do for the Kenyan people? As a starting point for the discussion, there has been plenty of "eating" in Vision 3020 2030, and apparently there is to be more? What exactly is Wanjiku getting out of this nonsense beyond "ease-of-doing business is getting better, so get out there and do your own thing"?
It should be possible to answer that without getting involved in "electoral justice, new parliamentary system, secession".
-
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
Exactly how have you determined that GoK has done much better than a "whining" Wanjiku:
On Vision 2030 3020 Wanjiku has been paying the taxes for that little eating joke. What exactly is it that you have Wanjiku do to "attempt to meet the government halfway"?
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
-
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
Interesting stuff. And I'd be happy to discuss it at another time. Right now, my main interest is this: what exactly does GoK do for the Kenyan people? As a starting point for the discussion, there has been plenty of "eating" in Vision 3020 2030, and apparently there is to be more? What exactly is Wanjiku getting out of this nonsense beyond "ease-of-doing business is getting better, so get out there and do your own thing"?
It should be possible to answer that without getting involved in "electoral justice, new parliamentary system, secession".
There are independent assessments that say Kenya has improved in development environment
.Governance Ranking - http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-improves-in-governance-ranking/1056-4195496-12tt9alz/index.html
.Ease of Doing Business - a steep climb
These are universal indicators of good government effort. Wanjiku can setup her massive enterprise anytime that others did with much less. Can you tell us what praiseworthy Wanjiku has done? I find her whining and scapegoating insufferable. Prosperity is not a right that people owe her like air.
-
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
Exactly how have you determined that GoK has done much better than a "whining" Wanjiku:
On Vision 2030 3020 Wanjiku has been paying the taxes for that little eating joke. What exactly is it that you have Wanjiku do to "attempt to meet the government halfway"?
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
This is like: buy cakes instead of whining about lack of bread. 100, eh? And to do it like Ford, Edison, Gates and Musk too. I suppose this means you think these people happened in identical environments as Wanjiku's because some report says "improved" somewhere. Wow.
-
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
Now that "ease of doing business" is supposedly getting better in Kenya, I should have no excuse. Ford, Gates, Musk. Why not. I'll get back to you as soon as I can get over some of your latest "gems" that are really killing me. Such as this one (on what Wanjiku should be doing about Kenya's educational system):
In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over.
That's pretty funny stuff. Where on earth do you get such ideas? Which late-night TV or YouTube channel?
-
Absolutely. A good solution takes care of the D minus student, not just the Alliance graduates. Even being very good at school is a privilege since no one merits the kinds of talents they are born with. Dumb luck ecplains a lot of good fortune many enjoy. We should aim for a humane society that looks out for people because they are people. Leave tea partysm to nutty Americans.
Yep. I was just reflecting on such things the other day. I always worked very hard at my studies and was never a D- student or even close. But luck and supportive environments have been very helpful. I don't know how I would survive in today's Kenya if I were told that "look at this index; ease of business is improving; so get out there!".
A little story: A couple of weeks ago, a nephew contacted me asking for some financial help in the new-and-improved "easy business environment" in Kenya. Hardworking chap, great ideas, A grade. But no capital or collateral for a loan. Couldn't get sh*t in Kenya. I have some friends in South Korea, and their government has an organization that focuses on "small man, no money, no collateral .... but great ideas". So things are moving forward. The financial split at the end? Hmm.
Oh yes. Able and responsible parents with your native talents was a much better bet for you some years ago. Not anymore. And even bad as things are for your nephew, imagine he is still much better off than countless others who have no ok uncle in Asia to call and ask for kidogo capital to try hapa na pale. :(
-
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
I see the electoral justice thing not so much as an economic matter as an issue of right and wrong. A values thing. Some people actually believe it's wrong to steal elections. Whether we benefit economically or not is not germane to that belief. If wanjiku wants bad leadership, then she should at least have a say in getting it.
Secession calls are based on feelings of exclusion. Whether there is a basis for them or not is besides the point that the feelings are real and they need to find an, ideally peaceful, outlet.
Do you think it is right for whining wanjiku to shoulder repayment of billions of USD in Eurobond while she cannot pinpoint a single benefit or does kamwana at least bear even tangential responsibility?
-
Folks get their own twisted ideas about innovation based totally on anecdotal evidence and declare kenyans are not innovative? Like really? How did M-pesa thrive? Kenya for it's economy size and stage of development is very innovative. Just look at data out there. Empirical data that compare economies of our scale and size.
For example - World Economic Forum - regularly ranks kenya ahead of South Africa and Nigeria in innovation.
Here is the latest from WEF's The Global Competitiveness Report for 2017-2018
On innovation, Kenya ranks 37th globally, with a score of 3.8, followed closely by South Africa with a similar score but ranked 39th and Nigeria falling behind with a score of 2.8 and ranked 119th globally.Kenya ranks 41 in technological adoption with a score of 5.0, South Africa ranks 45 with a 4.9 score and Nigeria ranks 87 with a 4.3 score.
http://www.techweez.com/2017/10/18/gcr-2017-kenya-innovation/
I'll grant you that Kenyans are very early adopters of technology especially customer based technology. Its the reason why for example there's a explosion of internet advertising cause there are more kenyans on smartphones than reading newspapers or watching TV. But the basic things like agriculture which holds the bulk of the population there's little technology adoption, that's why agriculture output has stagnated. And the adoption of technology in manufacturing isn't any different thats why we keep importing basic things from China.
-
Agreed- outside central, part of eastern and rift valley (jubilee zones) & perhaps Gusii - young folks don't see any future in agriculture activities - and would rather immigrate en-masse to towns or ride boda-bodas. But within those regions - there is a lot of small scale adoption of appropriate technology. Manufacturing is where we simply do not hack it. Is still a bahindi business -90% chance of new industry being owned by Indian. Very few africans graduate from school and want to start manufacturing anything. That I think is where we really need to focus on. There is some hope in agro-processing because mwafrika understand a little bit about agriculture - so manufacturing milk or tea or sugar easily relate to us. As we seek to attract big manufacturers from Asia and outside - we need to start a manufacturing revolution --- something out of our Jua-Kali (mainly welding) and Kariobangi.
I'll grant you that Kenyans are very early adopters of technology especially customer based technology. Its the reason why for example there's a explosion of internet advertising cause there are more kenyans on smartphones than reading newspapers or watching TV. But the basic things like agriculture which holds the bulk of the population there's little technology adoption, that's why agriculture output has stagnated. And the adoption of technology in manufacturing isn't any different thats why we keep importing basic things from China.
-
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
Exactly how have you determined that GoK has done much better than a "whining" Wanjiku:
On Vision 2030 3020 Wanjiku has been paying the taxes for that little eating joke. What exactly is it that you have Wanjiku do to "attempt to meet the government halfway"?
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
This is like: buy cakes instead of whining about lack of bread. 100, eh? And to do it like Ford, Edison, Gates and Musk too. I suppose this means you think these people happened in identical environments as Wanjiku's because some report says "improved" somewhere. Wow.
I am quite sure you suppose Wanjiku solely resides at Dandora or K'Ogalo. Why do you think so little of her? The private sector has way further to go than the state.
-
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
Now that "ease of doing business" is supposedly getting better in Kenya, I should have no excuse. Ford, Gates, Musk. Why not. I'll get back to you as soon as I can get over some of your latest "gems" that are really killing me. Such as this one (on what Wanjiku should be doing about Kenya's educational system):
In the US where education is supposed to be top-notch you have the Udacities and U2s taking over.
That's pretty funny stuff. Where on earth do you get such ideas? Which late-night TV or YouTube channel?
Andela is already chipping in Tech education albeit at a small scale. Much better than the "above-bar" college. :) You already have a model and some competition. Get right on with it. https://andela.com/ (https://andela.com/)
-
This is like: buy cakes instead of whining about lack of bread. 100, eh? And to do it like Ford, Edison, Gates and Musk too. I suppose this means you think these people happened in identical environments as Wanjiku's because some report says "improved" somewhere. Wow.
I am quite sure you suppose Wanjiku solely resides at Dandora or K'Ogalo. Why do you think so little of her? The private sector has way further to go than the state.
My bad. In your world, D scoring tarmacers and other jobless youth primarily reside in the Rundas and Kileleshewas of Kenya. :o
-
I don't disagree the government needs to improve. My only contention is that it has done much better than Wanjiku who excels in whining with impunity. For that less-than-perfect Vison 2030 (or 3020[sic]) - Wanjiku has not attempted to meet the government halfway.
Exactly how have you determined that GoK has done much better than a "whining" Wanjiku:
On Vision 2030 3020 Wanjiku has been paying the taxes for that little eating joke. What exactly is it that you have Wanjiku do to "attempt to meet the government halfway"?
Start a hundred Safaricoms. Like Ford and Edison and Gates and Musk. Have you registered MOON Ki Plc yet?
This is like: buy cakes instead of whining about lack of bread. 100, eh? And to do it like Ford, Edison, Gates and Musk too. I suppose this means you think these people happened in identical environments as Wanjiku's because some report says "improved" somewhere. Wow.
It's no accident that the Teslas, ford's, Microsofts, googles, ibms, Facebooks, whatsapps, boeings etc sprouted out of America. It's no accident.
-
My contention on the Wanjiku-vs-Uhuru share of blame in the poverty monkey is why, dear MOON Ki, am suspicious and contemptuous of calls for "electoral justice", new parliamentary system, secession, etc. The ones you find amusing. All are aimed at Uhuru/government as a panacea for Wanjiku's misery. That's a big fallacy. It's the law of averages. It is Wanjiku who deserves the painful jab she's demanding for everyone but herself.
I see the electoral justice thing not so much as an economic matter as an issue of right and wrong. A values thing. Some people actually believe it's wrong to steal elections. Whether we benefit economically or not is not germane to that belief. If wanjiku wants bad leadership, then she should at least have a say in getting it.
This is dicey as we don't agree on basics like rigging. Considering how the present IEBC assumed office I don't hold my breath. I view the catcalls on Esther Nyaiyaki in the same light. Losers will rather descend into the abyss than accept responsibility.
Secession calls are based on feelings of exclusion. Whether there is a basis for them or not is besides the point that the feelings are real and they need to find an, ideally peaceful, outlet.
Yes secession talk is excellent therapy. Before this we had Okoa Kenya. I see the People's Assembly as Okoa 2.0. I think you're naive to trust the intentions of the secession crew.
Do you think it is right for whining wanjiku to shoulder repayment of billions of USD in Eurobond while she cannot pinpoint a single benefit or does kamwana at least bear even tangential responsibility?
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
-
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
-
Only an idiot think one would be so stupid to launder eurobond via US Fed Reserve of all places. Eurobond is legit. Angloleasing was backstreet kind of deal that is perfect money laundering opportunity for the thieves - get some doggy promisory notes from debt vultures and try to launder it . How do you launder 2B dollars - from US debt market, Irish debt market, Fed Reserve bank and CBK of Kenya???????? Sometimes you guys need to use some intelligence - all the regulators and paper-trail?
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
-
Only an idiot think one would be so stupid to launder eurobond via US Fed Reserve of all places. Eurobond is legit. Angloleasing was backstreet kind of deal that is perfect money laundering opportunity for the thieves. How do you launder 2B dollars - from US debt market, Irish debt market, Fed Reserve bank and CBK of Kenya???????? Sometimes you guys need to use some intelligence - all the regulators and paper-trail?
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
Keep your morning bhang to yourself. Who is talking about Eurobond? I will point out impressive intellectual summersaults performed in any post as I see them, donge? Here we have one statement directly contradicting the one it follows, both from the same person. "I don't believe X was misappropriated but I believe it was misappropriated." Just wow.
-
I wasn't addressing you but Robina. Clearly this is waaaaaaaay beyond your paygrade. What do you know about Eurobond? I thought you're busy up there with unfortunate member of our society and trying to make all of us sad about it? You see you whine daily while not busy with ivory-towers.. I don't. I engage in finding practical ideas to problems facing us...including those unfortunate in our midst.
Keep your morning bhang to yourself. Who is talking about Eurobond? I will point out impressive intellectual summersaults performed in any post as I see them, donge? Here we have one statement directly contradicting the one it follows, both from the same person. "I don't believe X was misappropriated but I believe it was misappropriated." Just wow.
-
I wasn't addressing you but Robina. Clearly this is waaaaaaaay beyond your paygrade. What do you know about Eurobond? I thought you're busy up there with unfortunate member of our society and trying to make all of us sad about it?
Keep your morning bhang to yourself. Who is talking about Eurobond? I will point out impressive intellectual summersaults performed in any post as I see them, donge? Here we have one statement directly contradicting the one it follows, both from the same person. "I don't believe X was misappropriated but I believe it was misappropriated." Just wow.
You quoted me, genius.
-
And you don't have the intelligence to know I wasn't talking to you. I cherry-picked one of Robina response - one Eurobond. Something you haven't mentioned. What is wrong you? Trying to look for a catfight?
You quoted me, genius.
-
And you don't have the intelligence to know I wasn't talking to you. I cherry-picked one of Robina response - one Eurobond. Something you haven't mentioned. What is wrong you? Trying to look for a catfight?
You quoted me, genius.
I addressed the same Eurobond post, and then you quoted me, my reaction was precisely because your response seemed way over the top and unnecessarily provocative. And by the way, the only person here who has repeatedly demonstrated she lives in an ivory tower is our dear Robina.
-
Only an idiot think one would be so stupid to launder eurobond via US Fed Reserve of all places. Eurobond is legit. Angloleasing was backstreet kind of deal that is perfect money laundering opportunity for the thieves. How do you launder 2B dollars - from US debt market, Irish debt market, Fed Reserve bank and CBK of Kenya???????? Sometimes you guys need to use some intelligence - all the regulators and paper-trail?
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
Keep your morning bhang to yourself. Who is talking about Eurobond? I will point out impressive intellectual summersaults performed in any post as I see them, donge? Here we have one statement directly contradicting the one it follows, both from the same person. "I don't believe X was misappropriated but I believe it was misappropriated." Just wow.
Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them. Merging 15 parties sio mchezo. Cash changed hands.
-
Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them.
So which is it, was there graft or not...how can you accommodate so many contradictions? Sometimes I think you are bored and deliberately trolling. Honestly.
-
Jubilee has some good performance scores - fighting graft is not one of them.
So which is it, was there graft or not...how can you accommodate so many contradictions? Sometimes I think you are bored and deliberately trolling. Honestly.
There was graft. I am very consistent on this.
-
Yeap there has been lot of graft. The usual "10%" consultancy fee on every project. It started with SGR and I bet every project Jubilee has handled - someone has got their 10%. Which I really don't mind - I'll only mind if they kill it all like NYS. This kind of graft happens world over. They use different terminology but someone somewhere is getting the cream off the milk jar.
There was graft. I am very consistent on this.
-
Where I fault GoK/Jubilee?
Our food production be it maize,beans has been relatively constant if not declining over the 5yrs.
I long gave up on maize and started theorizing. If Galana took off, prices of maize bags in RV would drop like lead and RV Warriors would riot against DPORK.
Sugar? Why burn all that capes instead of smuggling dirt cheap stuff?
Pyrethrum? How come for 20yrs we can’t get our shiet together and get back to the top of the world? Some nostalgic farmers still plant it in Nakuru
Beans?
India needs 400M tons of beans and Kenya is free to export as much as it can
-
Yeap nobody is ready to deal with maize+sugar industry with simple measures that works.Liberalize. Let the market do it's magic. First is to allow duty free importation of food from anywhere in the world. After 3-4 yrs some industries or crops will collapse and maybe forever. But our farmers will figure out more profitable sectors like dairy, horticulture, beans and etc.
Maize is not helping anybody - not the RV farmers - not the millers - not the consumers; In our location; it's been nearly 30yrs since people planted it. It doesn't make any sense to plant it. Ugandans can plant it cheaply and supply us. We instead can plant yellow maize for cow feeds coz dairy farming is more profitable and earns families money & food every day.
The same is true with sugar cane - let it fall - let us import cheap Brazilian sugars. Turn those sugar-cane farms to something else - maybe soya? maybe even tobacco? just try something else.Bananas?
Where I fault GoK/Jubilee?
Our food production be it maize,beans has been relatively constant if not declining over the 5yrs.
I long gave up on maize and started theorizing. If Galana took off, prices of maize bags in RV would drop like lead and RV Warriors would riot against DPORK.
Sugar? Why burn all that capes instead of smuggling dirt cheap stuff?
Pyrethrum? How come for 20yrs we can’t get our shiet together and get back to the top of the world? Some nostalgic farmers still plant it in Nakuru
Beans?
India needs 400M tons of beans and Kenya is free to export as much as it can
-
Where I fault GoK/Jubilee?
Our food production be it maize,beans has been relatively constant if not declining over the 5yrs.
I long gave up on maize and started theorizing. If Galana took off, prices of maize bags in RV would drop like lead and RV Warriors would riot against DPORK.
Sugar? Why burn all that capes instead of smuggling dirt cheap stuff?
Pyrethrum? How come for 20yrs we can’t get our shiet together and get back to the top of the world? Some nostalgic farmers still plant it in Nakuru
Beans?
India needs 400M tons of beans and Kenya is free to export as much as it can
The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.
-
The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.
I'd say "should happen", rather than "will happen". The constant begging for food while doing nothing serious about food security---consider the Galana joke---shows that the political will does not exist. Are there any reasons to expect a change in that? As for the economics, people---powerful people, some connected to the "political will" do well out of the shortages and "urgent" imports. What economics will change that any time soon?
-
The key is just simple liberalization and this will happen either by political will or forced by economics. If I were a western kenya farmer I'd uproot sugar and plant beans . There's ready market for beans in north eastern even before exporting to India. In eastleign there are importers of canned beans who supply north eastern.
I'd say "should happen", rather than "will happen". The constant begging for food while doing nothing serious about food security---consider the Galana joke---shows that the political will does not exist. Are there any reasons to expect a change in that? As for the economics, people---powerful people, some connected to the "political will" do well out of the shortages and "urgent" imports. What economics will change that any time soon?
The government can't possibly continue subsidizing unga for long already I think treasury took a hit of about 30b, this isn't sustainable. Also kenya is running out of sugar waivers in COMESA before opening up the sector to competition.
-
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
While Ndii has harped once or twice about the Eurobond heist, it is not a Ndii idea. The Auditor General cannot put his finger on what happened to this money. It's not some narrative. Futile attempts have been made to discuss it on the basis of actual facts, even on this forum.
Here is where Robina loses me. She thinks it was used for the jubilated kitty for 2017. And that wanjiku complaining about such a use amounts whining. It's confusing if you try too hard to reconcile what she is saying.
-
The government can't possibly continue subsidizing unga for long already I think treasury took a hit of about 30b, this isn't sustainable. Also kenya is running out of sugar waivers in COMESA before opening up the sector to competition.
My understanding is that the subsidies have always been intended to be short-term measures. The question I'd ask is this: what is the government doing or planning to do to ensure that in, say, 2019 the country will not be in the same position as it is now? The other question I would ask is this: if liberalization, including the allowing easy importation, would make a huge difference, then why on earth isn't the government doing it right now?
By the way, Sh. 30b seems high for the subsidies that have been announced so far. What
is the exact nature of the "hit"?
Sugar does have some nutritional benefits, and people ought to have some in their diet; but I don't consider it as essential to the country's food security. Sort out maize, rice, and wheat, and then worry about sugar.
-
HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney. There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.
Let the market sort it out. Irish Potatos are second most consumed food in kenya - and nobody is out there protect it. Farmers are producing it because it makes business sense. There is no irish potato lobby out there crying fool about importation. That has prevented people in Nakuru or Nyandarua or Meru or such places from producing tonnes of potatos every week.
Why plant wheat when russians and canadians can sort us out cheaply? Why plant rice when Pakistanis can sell to us so cheaply? Why not concentrate on small holder farming where we can add value with lots of cheap labour we've have - I am talking something like plucking tea leaves which takes lots of human labour - hand picking quality coffee beans? Dairy farming that takes lot of energy and time?
-
HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney.
Feel free to explain to me why sugar is more important to Kenya's food security than maize, rice, and wheat. When Kenya begs for food, does it expect (and does anyone send) sugar? The current government subsidies ... how much is for sugar?
There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.
That might be so, but I don't see those who have it simply giving it away. So, Kenyans (and others who pay no attention to their food security) are always starving and begging for it. And there are always a large number of Kenyan kids who suffer permanent developmental damage because of nutritional reasons. With all the food in the world.
Why plant wheat when russians and canadians can sort us out cheaply? Why plant rice when Pakistanis can sell to us so cheaply?
According to hk, the government cannot afford to continue spending any more money subsidizing unga. Who is "sorting out" Kenya cheaply?
-
Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves :). We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.
Many kenyans are poor. There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't. The solution is to open up maize or wheat or rice for global competition. That will probably half the number of people who cannot afford to buy those "strategic" food crops because the global prices are so damn cheap.
Obviously this narrative is so loved by the big cats - Arabs in Mombasa - and politicians in Nairobi who issue to permits to import.
HK - Indeed just fully liberalizing the agricultural sector would do the trick. The moment you buy into Moonki argument that some food is more important aka food security then you go into all these schemes to produce or protect maize, rice and wheat for some "strategic" reasons. It totally balooney.
Feel free to explain to me why sugar is more important to Kenya's food security than maize, rice, and wheat.
There is enough cheap food in the world to feed everybody and their livestocks.
That might be so, but I don't see those who have it simply giving it away. So, Kenyans (and others who pay no attention to their food security) are always starving and begging for it. And there are always a large number of Kenyan kids who suffer permanent developmental damage because of nutritional reasons. With all the food in the world.
-
Maize shortage is artificial and damn expensive because of market restriction and politics.If kenyans like ugandans consumed so called non strategic food..potatos,bananas or cassavas...the cartels will die off.
-
Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves :). We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.
Nothing to do with poverty, my friend. Just take a look at how much the country produces and how much it consumes in maize, rice, and wheat in any given year.
I am lost on the rest. Not too long ago, Uhuru sent out an urgent plea for food aid and made a big deal of receiving some from the UAE. And all this will maize is stored by some body? If so, what exactly is strategic about the "strategic reserves"?
There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't.
The president that you admire so much recently has had much to say about food security. Just in September, he had this to say:
Food security remains an important part of our development agenda
http://www.president.go.ke/2017/09/14/speech-by-his-excellency-hon-uhuru-kenyatta-c-g-h-president-and-commander-in-chief-of-the-defence-forces-of-the-republic-of-kenya-during-the-official-opening-of-the-2017-central-kenya-regional-sh/
And his speech on Tuesday included this:
We must completely re-engineer our agricultural sector in order to be food secure.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-Kenyatta-inauguration-speech-/1056-4206194-t1nh18/index.html
That is the man you should tell that "There is nothing like food security". And while at it, tell him that there is no need to "re-engineer our agricultural sector", because Russians and Pakistanis and ... will sort us out cheaply.
-
We export tonnes of food every day - fruits, vegetables, tea, nuts, coffee etc - we are global leaders in exporting food. There is enough wheat, maize or rice in high seas to feed kenyans for 100 yrs. The artificial shortage is because we have blocked our borders and prevented maize or wheat or rice from coming in until somebody declare our expensively held strategic reserves to be short. For 2 decades now - we have had North Rift Maize farmer as our Min of Agric - the thinking will remain the same.
And btw the fact that I support uhuru or ruto do not mean I agree 100% with what they say. I am saying our food security so called sector is ripe for reforms.
We need reforms in our "food" security sectors. Those are the reforms some of us including robina and hk here are calling for. Not Raila makelele. The shortage is artificial. The solution is to allow the market to sort it out. Nobody is out there controlling Irish Potatos and it is important food crop for kenyans. The same is even true for eggs - which are now dominated by ugandans?
Simple solutions. Fully liberalize agriculture. Privatize NCPB. Let the chips fall wherever.
Don't conflate lack of money or poverty with lack of food. We have regulated the so called food security crops - maize, wheat, rice and sugar - and now we are paying 3-4 times the global prices for them - all because they are strategic - sijui strategic grain reserves :). We buy maize to store in NCPBB strategic stores at nearly twice the global market price.
Nothing to do with poverty, my friend. Just take a look at how much the country produces and how much it consumes in maize, rice, and wheat in any given year.
I am lost on the rest. Not too long ago, Uhuru sent out an urgent plea for food aid and made a big deal of receiving some from the UAE. And all this will maize is stored by some body? If so, what exactly is strategic about the "strategic reserves"?
There is nothing like food security. You either have money to buy food or don't.
The president that you admire so much recently has had to say about food security. Just in September, he had this to say:
Food security remains an important part of our development agenda
http://www.president.go.ke/2017/09/14/speech-by-his-excellency-hon-uhuru-kenyatta-c-g-h-president-and-commander-in-chief-of-the-defence-forces-of-the-republic-of-kenya-during-the-official-opening-of-the-2017-central-kenya-regional-sh/
And his speech on Tuesday included this:
We must completely re-engineer our agricultural sector in order to be food secure.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-Kenyatta-inauguration-speech-/1056-4206194-t1nh18/index.html
That is the man you should tell that "There is nothing like food security". And while at it, tell him that there is no need to "re-engineer our agricultural sector", because Russians and Pakistanis and ... will sort us out cheaply.
-
We export tonnes of food every day - fruits, vegetables, tea, nuts, coffee etc
I haven't seen too many people eating tea and coffee.
We are global leaders in exporting food.
On which globe is that? Maybe you can point out where Kenya is on a list like this one: http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-american-food-giant-the-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html
There is enough wheat, maize or rice in high seas to feed kenyans for 100 yrs.
And yet Kenyans desperately beg for food about every 2 years. What's up on the "high seas"? Are the ships getting lost and not delivering to Kenya?
Now, let us assume---just assume---that you are indeed right on the problems and solutions. Let us start here:
The artificial shortage is because we have blocked our borders and prevented maize or wheat or rice from coming in until somebody declare our expensively held strategic reserves to be short. For 2 decades now - we have had North Rift Maize farmer as our Min of Agric - the thinking will remain the same.
Who has "blocked" the borders? Bandits, Martians, or the government? Regardless of the answer to that, whose task is it to "open" them? Who gets to "our expensively held strategic reserves... short"? Martians?
We have government that is going into a second term, but still with the same two-decade-old thinking? The liberalization and reforms and what-not ... whose job is that? What has the present government done about them? What is it about to do about them? What, if anything, has the present government done in the last five years to improve things? The Galana Eating Joke?
Even by your own "explanation", it looks like Kenyans keep starving and begging for food---and most likely will keep starving and begging for food---because they have a clueless government.
And btw the fact that I support uhuru or ruto do not mean I agree 100% with what they say.
It certainly doesn't. But Uhuru and Ruto are the ones who will largely determine what happens in the next years. That is why I directed you to Uhuru's views. If you are right and he is wrong, then it's still going to be more starving and begging.
-
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
While Ndii has harped once or twice about the Eurobond heist, it is not a Ndii idea. The Auditor General cannot put his finger on what happened to this money. It's not some narrative. Futile attempts have been made to discuss it on the basis of actual facts, even on this forum.
Here is where Robina loses me. She thinks it was used for the jubilated kitty for 2017. And that wanjiku complaining about such a use amounts whining. It's confusing if you try too hard to reconcile what she is saying.
That's the point I was making there before I was interrupted. Robina says she will not buy the story that Wanjiku has been robbed in the same breath as she confirms her certainty of said robbery. Its just too confusing.
-
Even Ouru's die hard supporters will tell you that he is completely compromised on the corruption maneno. Kenya lost a lot because of corruption in Ouru's first term including the Eurobond and the Uganda/Rwanda pipelines just to mention a few. Ruto is hungry for lots and lost of money because he wants to create a dynasty like the Kenyatta's and the Moi's. Therefore the only way ouru could pacify him was to let him steal until he is satisfied. Others around Ouru were not going to let Ruto fill his bags of money while they watch, so they joined in and Ouru had no moral authority to stop them, let alone to punish them. Ouru cannot therefore fight corruption because he went too deep into the sewer and no amount of Clorox can clean him up. Nothing good will come out of this government and therefore the best thing is to continue mobilizing the people and calling for their ouster until they leave.
Glad you agree Wanjiku is the undisputed Whiner-in-Chief :) I am one of those who bought into the Ndii narrative that Eurobond cash was misappropriated. I believe Eurobond was Jubilee kitty for 2017. If the blubbering Bishop rolls his sleeves for once - and brings names forward ideally with Uhuru on top - I would support Wanjiku's or NASA's activities to see the thieves off. I don't hold my breath.
:D :D :D :D
While Ndii has harped once or twice about the Eurobond heist, it is not a Ndii idea. The Auditor General cannot put his finger on what happened to this money. It's not some narrative. Futile attempts have been made to discuss it on the basis of actual facts, even on this forum.
Here is where Robina loses me. She thinks it was used for the jubilated kitty for 2017. And that wanjiku complaining about such a use amounts whining. It's confusing if you try too hard to reconcile what she is saying.
That's the point I was making there before I was interrupted. Robina says she will not buy the story that Wanjiku has been robbed in the same breath as she confirms her certainty of said robbery. Its just too confusing.
-
HIS EXCELLENCY, ON FOOD SECURITY
2013:
Food security, employment creation and economic growth are my Government's key priorities.
http://jamhurimagazine.com/index.php/kenya-president/4414-president-uhuru-kenyatta-speech-at-a-s-k-nairobi-trade-fair.html
and
“Kenya has been the victim of perennial droughts and floods, every other year we have a drought or floods. This cycle has an adverse effect on not only our food production but on our infrastructure and our economy as a whole.
...
“We must invest in and modernise our agriculture and open up at least one million acres of new land through irrigation in order to end food insecurity.”
https://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2013/04/land-ownership-key-to-food-security-uhuru/
Etc. (Let Google be your friend.)
2017 (Tuesday's speech):
The recent prolonged drought has taught us some painful and expensive lessons. ... Never again should we allow the vagaries of weather to hold us hostage.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Uhuru-Kenyatta-inauguration-speech-/1056-4206194-t1nh18/index.html
I got lost somewhere:
4+ years ago, it was "perennial", and you and your government were determined to do something about. One million acres etc. But it is only now you are really determined to do something about? Just how many "painful and expensive lessons" and how much of "perennial" do you need? Please, H.E., stop waiting for the 100-year stuff that the Russians and Pakistanis have coming on the high seas. Take action now.
-
The whinning continues.Uhuru will probably not face the real problem and so only hope is Galana producing cheap maize.
-
Seem the situation is not hopeless. Sugar privatization may get off ground. And if the likes of Centum invest in growing cereals - they may plug the deficit and produce globally competitive cereals.