Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on September 26, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
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They are going nowhere with this. The Registrar of the Supreme Court is technically a Judge of the same level as Court of Appeals. To investigate her is a herculean task.
Decisions of judges are not subject to investigation by others other than superior courts (where available)
Supreme Court Registrar Esther Nyaiyaki has protested an order to hand over documents and record a statement on claims that she misled judges to quash President Kenyatta’s re-election.
The registrar was summoned by the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) on September 25 in a letter to Chief Registrar of the Judiciary Anne Amadi.
DIRECTION
In her response to Chief Justice David Maraga, Ms Nyaiyaki says the law gives the Judicial Service Commission the powers to investigate her for any impropriety.
She wants Mr Maraga to give her direction on whether she should honour summons from the anti-graft body.
EACC's letter to Ms Amadi does not state the source of the complaint but it alleges that the registrar falsified the audit report which the Supreme Court relied upon to nullify the August 8 presidential results.
Besides asking Ms Nyaiyaki to present herself to record a statement, it also asked the judiciary to provide the original report she prepared.
The report revealed that some of the forms containing results that were used to declared President Kenyatta the winner of the August 8 poll were not signed while others were photocopies and lacked security features.
EACC investigators want the court to hand over all the documents Ms Nyaiyaki and her team relied upon in preparing the document that tilted the case in Nasa leader Raila Odinga's favour.
Also wanted are all forms 34As, 34Bs, and 34Cs as they were submitted by the IEBC within 48 hours after the filing of the presidential petition.
EXHIBITS
Others are certified copies of pleadings of the petition, certified copies of the judgement— both majority and dissenting— and a certified copy of the court order that granted the National Super Alliance access to the IEBC servers.
EACC further wants certified copies of correspondences relating to the presidential petition.
In her letter, however, Ms Nyaiyaki protested to the CJ, saying information demanded by the EACC is privileged as it remains part of the exhibits and forms part of the Supreme Court proceedings.
“I am constrained to state that under the oath of office I took, the Supreme Court Act and rules, the Judicature Act and the Judicial Service Code of Conduct, I am unable to avail the information sought by EACC without your forma concurrence or a formal court order bearing in mind the report I prepared was and hitherto remains an exhibit and forms part of the Supreme Court proceedings,” she says in the letter to Mr Maraga.
The letter is copied to the EACC, all the Supreme Court Judges, Secretary of the Judicial Service Commission and Bowry and Company Advocates.
THE LAW
Ms Nyaiyaki says in the letter that she discharged the audit with a conscientious understanding of the orders the court issued and being part of her duties as contemplated section 9 and 10 1 (j) of the Supreme Court Act.
“I am accountable to the Supreme Court and the JSC and the information sought by EACC is privileged in respect of my duties and assignment issued by the Supreme Court during the presidential petition,” she says.
She says she is not aware of the alleged complaint.
“In any event, I would have expected that if there is any alleged impropriety against me, Article 172, 1 (c) as read with Article 252 1 of the constitution gives JSC powers to conduct investigation either on its own initiative or a complaint made against a Judicial officer.”
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Where fraud or any criminal activity is involved - then she has no immunity. She cannot hide from police or eacc or investigation agent using JSC. She either compiles or the police can go for her with handcuffs. Her argument that is dishonest because there was nothing protected in those forms...it not like it reveals witnesses names or what.
The police and EACC have done their homework - and she need to go there - explain herself. Unless she has something to hide.
Shollei was registar like here and was drag through the courts.
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EACC can go fuck themselves. Maraga should tell them as much in not so many words.
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Why didn't they fuack themselves when they arrested and arraigned former registar Shollei in court.
Nyakai cannot hide under JSC. She can go to court and seek orders to stop EACC before she is dragged to that court in handcuffs.
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What fraud do you refer to?
She has NOT said she is immune: I have.
Her position backed by the law is that the documents she is being asked to submit are not in her custody but the custody of the Supreme Court and are protected by law. They need a court order for the release. She is not resisting but helping them to comply with the law. This is the same line of argument adopted by the IEBC and Jubilee to deny NASA access to information in 2013 and 2017. The Uhuru and IEBC response to Raila's petition is full of authorities and precedents against exactly what EACC is demanding.
I am sure they can handcuff her anytime. Moi used to arrest judges. Ruto is eager to "follow the Moi route".
Where fraud or any criminal activity is involved - then she has no immunity. She cannot hide from police or eacc or investigation agent using JSC. She either compiles or the police can go for her with handcuffs. Her argument that is dishonest because there was nothing protected in those forms...it not like it reveals witnesses names or what.
The police and EACC have done their homework - and she need to go there - explain herself. Unless she has something to hide.
Shollei was registar like here and was drag through the courts.
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EACC is just as compromised as IEBC. On September 1, the SCOK found illegalities with IEBC and EACC went silent, then now they are all over Nyaiyaki without any invitation only a day after a purely political petition was filed by Jubilee. These institutions including DPP, EACC, IEBC have been taken over by Jubilee and are no longer independent.
EACC can go fuck themselves. Maraga should tell them as much in not so many words.
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Investigative agency can arrest anyone including Magara. There is a claim that has been lodged - "documents and record a statement on claims that she misled judges to quash President Kenyatta’s re-election" - she need to go to EACC and answer it. She can refuse to hand over documents until judges agree. But that doesn't protect here from recording a statement.
JSC cannot protect her - only a court order would.
Once again she need to lawyer up and get a court order to stop police or eacc from investigating her - otherwise they may handcuff her before that.
Judges never annual Moi victory. These ones have unfairly annualled Uhuru's win. What is coming their way will make Moi look like a saint.
What fraud do you refer to?
She has NOT said she is immune: I have.
Her position backed by the law is that the documents she is being asked to submit are not in her custody but the custody of the Supreme Court and are protected by law. They need a court order for the release. She is not resisting but helping them to comply with the law. This is the same line of argument adopted by the IEBC and Jubilee to deny NASA access to information in 2013 and 2017. The Uhuru and IEBC response to Raila's petition is full of authorities and precedents against exactly what EACC is demanding.
I am sure they can handcuff her anytime. Moi used to arrest judges. Ruto is eager to "follow the Moi route".
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We agree on this part. If she has problem producing documents - she can explain it to cops. I am sure cops will find a way through this. These documents - the original are in IEBC - if someone want to investigate them - a high court judge can issue an order for them originals to be examined again - under his supervision.
Let me try again: The Registrar can be questioned, arrested charged etc. She cannot produce something not in her custody! Documents were not given to her! They were given to The Supreme Court!
For the election materials to be examined, a court order is required. You know that
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I wonder what they are waiting for?
Arresting means they proceed to charge her with an offence. Do you know of any such offence?
Investigative agency can arrest anyone including Magara. There is a claim that has been lodged - "documents and record a statement on claims that she misled judges to quash President Kenyatta’s re-election" - she need to go to EACC and answer it. She can refuse to hand over documents until judges agree. But that doesn't protect here from recording a statement.
JSC cannot protect her - only a court order would.
Once again she need to lawyer up and get a court order to stop police or eacc from investigating her - otherwise they may handcuff her before that.
Judges never annual Moi victory. These ones have unfairly annualled Uhuru's win. What is coming their way will make Moi look like a saint.
What fraud do you refer to?
She has NOT said she is immune: I have.
Her position backed by the law is that the documents she is being asked to submit are not in her custody but the custody of the Supreme Court and are protected by law. They need a court order for the release. She is not resisting but helping them to comply with the law. This is the same line of argument adopted by the IEBC and Jubilee to deny NASA access to information in 2013 and 2017. The Uhuru and IEBC response to Raila's petition is full of authorities and precedents against exactly what EACC is demanding.
I am sure they can handcuff her anytime. Moi used to arrest judges. Ruto is eager to "follow the Moi route".
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Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
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EACC is just as compromised as IEBC. On September 1, the SCOK found illegalities with IEBC and EACC went silent, then now they are all over Nyaiyaki without any invitation only a day after a purely political petition was filed by Jubilee. These institutions including DPP, EACC, IEBC have been taken over by Jubilee and are no longer independent.
EACC can go fuck themselves. Maraga should tell them as much in not so many words.
Yep. They are so transparent. EACC can't be lacking for work to do. But they find time for political shenanigans.
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I think you should take a deep breath and cut down on substances before you commit suicide over nothing. Uhuru and his courtiers are sitting around mugs of alcohol and wet weed then working themselves in to a frenzy and succumbing to silly "legal" advice.
1. The reception and handover of the original forms was witnessed by ALL parties including Petitioner and Third Respondent (Uhuru Kenyatta);
2. The examination of the forms was conducted by the Agents (Petitioners and Respondents) with the Registrar and staff witnessing
3. The report submitted was composed by the Registrar and the parties' agents
4. ALL the agents signed the report and made their views, objections, etc known
5. The 3rd Respondent through his advocate in plenary went further to alter some of his earlier views which generally absolved the IEBC of any blame (where the agent had indicated blame)
You have a big job ahead of you.
Note that my views are only seeking to get others to understand the issue. It does not matter what EACC or Njuguna Muhoro eventually finds or does. I am just telling you they have a steep mountain to climb attempting to overturn a verdict they deeply dislike.
Drink some milk it helped us in 2013 :D :D :D :D
Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
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You are full of jokes. Treason!
I am glad that Ruto will never be president of Kenya.
Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
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Except when Njoki looked at the same forms (certified copies); she didn't see the discrepancies. That is why we are here. You see if NASA worked with some IEBC mole (remember Kethi KIlonzo getting IEBC registration form clandestinely) and the planted fake forms - then everyone who witnessed - including agents/nyakai/judges - are not guilty of anything - except swallowing the NASA lie hook,line and sinker.
If Nyakai herself got the proper originals - but choose to write her own stuff - then she is in hot soup.
So investigation here is multi-pronged - look at ROs, look at IEBC store, and look at judiciary. You cannot have judge saying the forms are okay and registar saying there are not okay. HAPO KUNA SHIDA. EACC and Police are required by law to look at this - and find out what went down?
The Judiciary led by Maraga don't have to wait for anybody for them to institute their own review - after reading Njoki's judgement. This is for administrative action - however considering the import of this - someone who still need to be charged for TREASON.
If they don't do this on their own - then I cannot wait to see it frustrated and eventually even disbanded.
When somebody manages to explain to why CERTIFIED COPIES differ with Originals then this issues should be closed. In any case we are still going for an election.
I think you should take a deep breath and cut down on substances before you commit suicide over nothing. Uhuru and his courtiers are sitting around mugs of alcohol and wet weed then working themselves in to a frenzy and succumbing to silly "legal" advice.
1. The reception and handover of the original forms was witnessed by ALL parties including Petitioner and Third Respondent (Uhuru Kenyatta);
2. The examination of the forms was conducted by the Agents (Petitioners and Respondents) with the Registrar and staff witnessing
3. The report submitted was composed by the Registrar and the parties' agents
4. ALL the agents signed the report and made their views, objections, etc known
5. The 3rd Respondent through his advocate in plenary went further to alter some of his earlier views which generally absolved the IEBC of any blame (where the agent had indicated blame)
You have a big job ahead of you.
Note that my views are only seeking to get others to understand the issue. It does not matter what EACC or Njuguna Muhoro eventually finds or does. I am just telling you they have a steep mountain to climb attempting to overturn a verdict they deeply dislike.
Drink some milk it helped us in 2013 :D :D :D :D
Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
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Except when Njoki looked at the same forms (certified copies);
How do you know that they are the same forms she looked at? You are placing bthe word of one person over that of:
1. Agents of Uhuru Kenyatta
2. Agents of Raila Odinga
3. IEBC staff
4. Staff of the Registrar
5. The Registrar
she didn't see the discrepancies.
She should share her methodology for example:
1. What equipment did she use to read the barcodes and what did they reveal (missing from her judgment)
2. How did she determine that the serial numbers she saw conformed to the ones issued
3. How did she determine that the water marks were genuine without the originals
4. How did she check for forgeries
That is why we are here. You see if NASA worked with some IEBC mole (remember Kethi KIlonzo getting IEBC registration form clandestinely) and the planted fake forms - then everyone who witnessed - including agents/nyakai/judges - are not guilty of anything - except swallowing the NASA lie hook,line and sinker.
Go to choo and join your friend Njamlik and Hubris. Bottom line is that drink some milk for your ulcers. I do not recommend alcohol like St Paul.
If Nyakai herself got the proper originals - but choose to write her own stuff - then she is in hot soup.
read the report. http://omollosview.com/blog/2017/09/26/the-kenya-supreme-court-registrars-report/
So investigation here is multi-pronged - look at ROs, look at IEBC store, and look at judiciary. You cannot have judge saying the forms are okay and registar saying there are not okay. HAPO KUNA SHIDA. EACC and Police are required by law to look at this - and find out what went down?
One judge! Not the court. It is simple she either made a mistake or she is lying.
The Judiciary led by Maraga don't have to wait for anybody for them to institute their own review - after reading Njoki's judgement. This is for administrative action - however considering the import of this - someone who still need to be charged for TREASON.
There is no basis. Njoki went on a wild goose chase.
If they don't do this on their own - then I cannot wait to see it frustrated and eventually even disbanded.
Do not overestimate your power. Kenyans are tired of Jubilee thieves and can't wait to get rid of you. Maraga is going nowhere and will retire at 70 in five years time.
When somebody manages to explain to why CERTIFIED COPIES differ with Originals then this issues should be closed. In any case we are still going for an election.
Start a new thread and I educate you reasons why photocopies of original security documents would greatly differ from the originals. You can also google it
I think you should take a deep breath and cut down on substances before you commit suicide over nothing. Uhuru and his courtiers are sitting around mugs of alcohol and wet weed then working themselves in to a frenzy and succumbing to silly "legal" advice.
1. The reception and handover of the original forms was witnessed by ALL parties including Petitioner and Third Respondent (Uhuru Kenyatta);
2. The examination of the forms was conducted by the Agents (Petitioners and Respondents) with the Registrar and staff witnessing
3. The report submitted was composed by the Registrar and the parties' agents
4. ALL the agents signed the report and made their views, objections, etc known
5. The 3rd Respondent through his advocate in plenary went further to alter some of his earlier views which generally absolved the IEBC of any blame (where the agent had indicated blame)
You have a big job ahead of you.
Note that my views are only seeking to get others to understand the issue. It does not matter what EACC or Njuguna Muhoro eventually finds or does. I am just telling you they have a steep mountain to climb attempting to overturn a verdict they deeply dislike.
Drink some milk it helped us in 2013 :D :D :D :D
Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
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EACC is just as compromised as IEBC. On September 1, the SCOK found illegalities with IEBC and EACC went silent, then now they are all over Nyaiyaki without any invitation only a day after a purely political petition was filed by Jubilee. These institutions including DPP, EACC, IEBC have been taken over by Jubilee and are no longer independent.
EACC can go fuck themselves. Maraga should tell them as much in not so many words.
Exactly. I love it when the electoral fraudsters apply the law selectively, because they will be squealing next time those same laws are applied to them.
It's like this Babu Owino thing, Uhuru/Ruto and other foul mouthed thieving bastards have been calling Odinga all sorts of names without any trouble from the police. Then Owino gives some of that back and bang, cops all over him like a rash.
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Offence - the penal code is not short but I like high treason. It proportionate to the alleged crime here. Until the Njoki & Nyakai reports are reconciled - I think investigation are more than welcome. Who faked these forms? ROs? IEBC staff? Chiloba? NASA? Jubilee? Njoki? Get the very bottom of this.
When are the Jubilee electoral fraudsters being tried for treason?
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It's very strange reading Jubilidiots screaming "fake form 34 whatevers" when it is well known that they are the ones that faked ALL 34As, Bs and even C!
Please spare us these belated cries of crime. You are the culprits here.
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She won’t go down without a fight
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What a circus. jubilee keeps asking all defenders to turn around so that they can give them a daily dose of fudge so that they can go on defending their malfeasance. Defenders like it because they have to be high in order to keep lying.
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NASA wanted the investigative agencies to do their job- let them dig as deep as it's get.
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The issue is bias. EACC should have been able to nail Wairuguru. That was the easiest investigation to do.
NASA wanted the investigative agencies to do their job- let them dig as deep as it's get.
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This one is very easy - can be done in a week - just comparing originals against Nyakai report.
The issue is bias. EACC should have been able to nail Wairuguru. That was the easiest investigation to do.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLSF46XWsAA9CkD.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLSF46CW4AAlF5u.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLSF46FW4AA2NJG.jpg)
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How far has Ruto come with the persecution of Supreme Court Registrar the Honorable Nyaiyaki (with powers above a High Court Judge)?
This one is very easy - can be done in a week - just comparing originals against Nyakai report.
The issue is bias. EACC should have been able to nail Wairuguru. That was the easiest investigation to do.
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After election - Maraga and judiciary will face what civil society has been facing under Fazul - constant harassment & intimidation - if not worse. They are the last resistance to Jubilee absolute power :).
How far has Ruto come with the persecution of Supreme Court Registrar the Honorable Nyaiyaki (with powers above a High Court Judge)?
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And you will be cheering along!
If I may ask: What if Jubilee loses? Who gets harassed?
After election - Maraga and judiciary will face what civil society has been facing under Fazul - constant harassment & intimidation - if not worse. They are the last resistance to Jubilee absolute power :).
How far has Ruto come with the persecution of Supreme Court Registrar the Honorable Nyaiyaki (with powers above a High Court Judge)?
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I think there is some penance that would be acceptable - but anything overboard I will call it out. Of course when I wear my dispassionate pundit shoes on - I am going to predict the relation btw Jubilee and Judiciary is going to get worse!
I don't see jubilee losing..it improbable implausible if not impossible scenario - so I won't worry about that.
And you will be cheering along!
If I may ask: What if Jubilee loses? Who gets harassed?
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I am not asking you to see Jubilee losing. Hell NO! You believe they will win and lets assume they will as you have said.
My question is since you are a self proclaimed "dispassionate" pundit, kindly then educate me on the possible scenario were Jubilee to oose (unlike as you believe!). I am counting on an assessment that is unperturbed by your otherwise passionate support for Jubilee to offer me a dispassionate opinion. In other what if NASA won?
I think there is some penance that would be acceptable - but anything overboard I will call it out. Of course when I wear my dispassionate pundit shoes on - I am going to predict the relation btw Jubilee and Judiciary is going to get worse!
I don't see jubilee losing..it improbable implausible if not impossible scenario - so I won't worry about that.
And you will be cheering along!
If I may ask: What if Jubilee loses? Who gets harassed?
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MOASS is my dispassionate look at how elections will pan out - I have painstakingly & methodologically analysed all factors - and came up with SOLID FIGURES only to hear this very nondescript developer was part of the rigging scheme... and I have tried all sort of scenarios - the worst case for Uhuru is 50% - best case for Raila is 49%. That was on 8th. Now I think Raila should be thankful if he goes out at respectable 40%. It gonna be a rout.
If NASA had a path to victory I'd be the first to acknowledge it. Until this GEMA-RV alliance is broken - It going to be unbeatable.
And again the only time in my life I have seen William Ruto with my naked eyes - was when they with Uhuru & some MPs were walking to the Ibrahim center near Nation Center when it was burning -2009 or around when UhuRuto rapprochement was starting during Mau forest & Maize scandal period. I was also walking towards Kimathi streets which had a lot of bars I use to partonize. I can't recall seeing him at all in any other setthigns - in fact one of my friend saw him in NO rally and I asked him how he looked - he told me he is "a black thing" :)
I am not asking you to see Jubilee losing. Hell NO! You believe they will win and lets assume they will as you have said.
My question is since you are a self proclaimed "dispassionate" pundit, kindly then educate me on the possible scenario were Jubilee to oose (unlike as you believe!). I am counting on an assessment that is unperturbed by your otherwise passionate support for Jubilee to offer me a dispassionate opinion. In other what if NASA won?
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I will try one last time:
I have looked at your MOAS and have opted not to discuss or comment. That is NOT what I am asking.
My question is: Do you envisage what would happen in even Uhuru fails to win the election?
Do you envisage what would happen in event Raila wins the election?
Now keep in mind that you stated that the Judiciary and other non compliant entities will be subjected to harassment. I assume without having to hear fromj you thzat an Uhuru loss would mean "No Harassement" for the judicoary. But I am not as gifted as you (acording to your own words) so I am requesting you share with me what you think would happen to :
1. William Ruto
2. Uhuru Kenyatta
3. Jubilee Party
4. Raphael Tuju
5. Inspector General of Police and Kavuludi
6. NCIC Chairman - URP Chairman Kaparo
etc.
I just provided a simple sketch and you are free to use a different classification.
MOASS is my dispassionate look at how elections will pan out - I have painstakingly & methodologically analysed all factors - and came up with SOLID FIGURES only to hear this very nondescript developer was part of the rigging scheme... and I have tried all sort of scenarios - the worst case for Uhuru is 50% - best case for Raila is 49%. That was on 8th. Now I think Raila should be thankful if he goes out at respectable 40%. It gonna be a rout.
If NASA had a path to victory I'd be the first to acknowledge it. Until this GEMA-RV alliance is broken - It going to be unbeatable.
And again the only time in my life I have seen William Ruto with my naked eyes - was when they with Uhuru & some MPs were walking to the Ibrahim center near Nation Center when it was burning -2009 or around when UhuRuto rapprochement was starting during Mau forest & Maize scandal period. I was also walking towards Kimathi streets which had a lot of bars I use to partonize. I can't recall seeing him at all in any other setthigns - in fact one of my friend saw him in NO rally and I asked him how he looked - he told me he is "a black thing" :)
I am not asking you to see Jubilee losing. Hell NO! You believe they will win and lets assume they will as you have said.
My question is since you are a self proclaimed "dispassionate" pundit, kindly then educate me on the possible scenario were Jubilee to oose (unlike as you believe!). I am counting on an assessment that is unperturbed by your otherwise passionate support for Jubilee to offer me a dispassionate opinion. In other what if NASA won?
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You never saw Maraga coming in your rear view mirror either. You live in Ruto's bubble/cave and there are a lot of things happening outside the cave or in the other planets that are completely unknown and an imaginable to you. The elections were held on 8/8 and ouru has not been sworn in yet. I am sure if someone told you this on 8/7 you would have laughed them off.
MOASS is my dispassionate look at how elections will pan out - I have painstakingly & methodologically analysed all factors - and came up with SOLID FIGURES only to hear this very nondescript developer was part of the rigging scheme... and I have tried all sort of scenarios - the worst case for Uhuru is 50% - best case for Raila is 49%. That was on 8th. Now I think Raila should be thankful if he goes out at respectable 40%. It gonna be a rout.
If NASA had a path to victory I'd be the first to acknowledge it. Until this GEMA-RV alliance is broken - It going to be unbeatable.
And again the only time in my life I have seen William Ruto with my naked eyes - was when they with Uhuru & some MPs were walking to the Ibrahim center near Nation Center when it was burning -2009 or around when UhuRuto rapprochement was starting during Mau forest & Maize scandal period. I was also walking towards Kimathi streets which had a lot of bars I use to partonize. I can't recall seeing him at all in any other setthigns - in fact one of my friend saw him in NO rally and I asked him how he looked - he told me he is "a black thing" :)
I am not asking you to see Jubilee losing. Hell NO! You believe they will win and lets assume they will as you have said.
My question is since you are a self proclaimed "dispassionate" pundit, kindly then educate me on the possible scenario were Jubilee to oose (unlike as you believe!). I am counting on an assessment that is unperturbed by your otherwise passionate support for Jubilee to offer me a dispassionate opinion. In other what if NASA won?