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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: vooke on September 17, 2017, 01:03:52 PM

Title: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 17, 2017, 01:03:52 PM
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Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kichwa on September 17, 2017, 06:10:43 PM
French court fines Safran for Nigerian bribes
Reuters Staff
PARIS, Sept 5 (Reuters) - French aeronautics and defence group Safran was fined 500,000 euros ($630,000) on Wednesday by a Paris court for bribing public officials in Nigeria to win a contract in 2000/03.

Investigating magistrates found that the bribes had helped Safran win a 170 million euro contract to make more than 70 million identity cards.

Safran, 30 percent state-owned, said it would appeal, adding: “Safran would like to point out that it is deeply attached to the strict respect of anti-corruption rules”.

Foreign corruption rulings against big French companies are rare in France. A report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development that was leaked in July said French authorities lacked the resources to fight possible corruption in big export contracts.

Prosecutors had originally sought to have the Safran case dismissed, but did not lodge any formal request at the trial in June. The court let off two of the company’s executives, for whom prosecutors had sought a suspended sentence of up to 18 months and fines of 15,000 euros each.

Like all members of the OECD, France is part of the its convention against the bribery of foreign officials, which requires that the practice be a criminal offence. ($1 = 0.7961 euro) (Reporting by Thierry Leveque; Writing by Leigh Thomas; Editing by Dan Lalor)

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 17, 2017, 06:19:21 PM
What I don't get is this. They say they will sue for damage to their reputation. But the logs obtained by court order FROM IEBC indicate a number of things they deny: like they deny that there was any unauthorized access. How? Chebukati's own memo complained of that very thing.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: bryan275 on September 17, 2017, 06:59:42 PM
What I don't get is this. They say they will sue for damage to their reputation. But the logs obtained by court order FROM IEBC indicate a number of things they deny: like they deny that there was any unauthorized access. How? Chebukati's own memo complained of that very thing.

I think the French are just being factual.  We need to remember that wakina chirchir and others had bona-fide user accounts created for their access.  There was no unauthorised access to the systems ie hacking as we know it.

Chebukati's account was real created by iebc sys administrators.  Only that he didn't know.  Chebukati asked the correct question....
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 17, 2017, 07:08:12 PM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 17, 2017, 07:15:30 PM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on September 17, 2017, 07:25:25 PM
What I don't get is this. They say they will sue for damage to their reputation. But the logs obtained by court order FROM IEBC indicate a number of things they deny: like they deny that there was any unauthorized access. How? Chebukati's own memo complained of that very thing.

I think the French are just being factual.  We need to remember that wakina chirchir and others had bona-fide user accounts created for their access.  There was no unauthorised access to the systems ie hacking as we know it.

Chebukati's account was real created by iebc sys administrators.  Only that he didn't know.  Chebukati asked the correct question....

Yep.  They can be entirely factual.  It all depends on what they are trying to answer. They are not trying to answer what happened to the 40,883 KIEMS kits metadata.  They can just stick to the narrow technical definition of hacking, rather than the loose one we are using that says shit was manipulated in those systems, and they'd be right.  That said, it seems the irony is lost on them about the value of a self audit and clearance.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 17, 2017, 07:30:56 PM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: RV Pundit on September 17, 2017, 08:09:14 PM
They know they can't win so idea is to try nusu mkate.Uhuru should refuse to engage.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 17, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
To be fair to Safran, the demands to open up the servers was made to IEBC so before NASWA accuses them of sabotage they need clear evidence that IEBC submitted the court orders to them and they failed to respond on reasonable time
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kichwa on September 17, 2017, 09:49:54 PM
True, they are being "factually clever". All they are saying is that this was an IEBC "inside job", and we have nothing to do with it.

What I don't get is this. They say they will sue for damage to their reputation. But the logs obtained by court order FROM IEBC indicate a number of things they deny: like they deny that there was any unauthorized access. How? Chebukati's own memo complained of that very thing.

I think the French are just being factual.  We need to remember that wakina chirchir and others had bona-fide user accounts created for their access.  There was no unauthorised access to the systems ie hacking as we know it.

Chebukati's account was real created by iebc sys administrators.  Only that he didn't know.  Chebukati asked the correct question....
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 17, 2017, 11:01:47 PM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Yaani, I don't want nusu mkate nor elections that are exactly like the 8/8 elections in all but date and no. of candidates. What I expect to happen re your question is this: if NASA adamantly refuse to participate, most people from most of the country won't turn up. Not necessarily because they love NASA but because it'll be pointless, this being a two-horse race. They may decide to top up votes again just to make the turn out seem bigger but it won't really matter. Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in. Then NASA can continue to push their agenda. I am very much at peace with this.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kichwa on September 17, 2017, 11:16:48 PM
Exactly.  There is really nothing NASA would gain by going into an election without reforms.  NASA's job is to reform the electoral system. How long it takes does not matter but this country will not do business as usually until IEBC is reformed and a legitimate president is elected.

So,  Jubiliee can refuse reforms if they wish but there will be no elections; they can swear in ouru as an illegitimate president if they wish. NASA will keep on campaigning for a reform of IEBC, for free and fair elections until we get one. There will be no legitimate president in Kenya until IEBC cleans its house up.  The sooner they do it the better for everybody. One of the lessons  Jubilee will learn is that democracy is more than stealing money,  buying a majority of legislatures and rigging elections. Its more complicated and requires humility.


NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Yaani, I don't want nusu mkate nor elections that are exactly like the 8/8 elections in all but date and no. of candidates. What I expect to happen re your question is this: if NASA adamantly refuse to participate, most people from most of the country won't turn up. Not necessarily because they love NASA but because it'll be pointless, this being a two-horse race. They may decide to top up votes again just to make the turn out seem bigger but it won't really matter. Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in. Then NASA can continue to push their agenda. I am very much at peace with this.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 07:23:31 AM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Yaani, I don't want nusu mkate nor elections that are exactly like the 8/8 elections in all but date and no. of candidates. What I expect to happen re your question is this: if NASA adamantly refuse to participate, most people from most of the country won't turn up. Not necessarily because they love NASA but because it'll be pointless, this being a two-horse race. They may decide to top up votes again just to make the turn out seem bigger but it won't really matter. Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in. Then NASA can continue to push their agenda. I am very much at peace with this.
I think boycotting won't sell or make NASWA smart.
The petition is sort of a precedent that irregularities and illegsties can be flushed out and invalidate an election. So why would they be apprehensive over the same? They cheat , they lose again at SCOK.If one loses in a subsequent election and fails to file a petition, or files and loses, the natural  assumption would be they lost fairly

Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: RV Pundit on September 18, 2017, 10:02:58 AM
Precisely. If they believe in SCOK; let them go again back to the same court. So participate and get rigged out and ran back. Magara and his gang of four fools will regret this.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 11:32:05 AM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Yaani, I don't want nusu mkate nor elections that are exactly like the 8/8 elections in all but date and no. of candidates. What I expect to happen re your question is this: if NASA adamantly refuse to participate, most people from most of the country won't turn up. Not necessarily because they love NASA but because it'll be pointless, this being a two-horse race. They may decide to top up votes again just to make the turn out seem bigger but it won't really matter. Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in. Then NASA can continue to push their agenda. I am very much at peace with this.
I think boycotting won't sell or make NASWA smart.
The petition is sort of a precedent that irregularities and illegsties can be flushed out and invalidate an election. So why would they be apprehensive over the same? They cheat , they lose again at SCOK.If one loses in a subsequent election and fails to file a petition, or files and loses, the natural  assumption would be they lost fairly
But whose natural assumption? I'm sure there are many who think this way yet I know there are many who think it is insane to participate in an election run by this same body with the exact same staff and set-up without basic reforms. From Pundit's comment, its clear that many see that no reforms mean a never-ending circus. Whats the point of a petition if you head out, rinse and repeat? That may be a satisfying state of affairs for "many" but I also know it is ludicrous to many others too. Kila mtu na starehe zake, or I should say, na agenda zake. There is not one good reason under the sun for a person who complained of rigging, petitioned the court and got a whole bunch of smelly stuff exposed, to then head to a repeat of the exact same set-up. Raila would actually seem very dumb if he did that and even if he cried rigging thereafter it would not carry sympathies when he did it without insisting that the wrong things be fixed first.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 12:22:06 PM
NASWA has gone after all nane nane contractors and alleged perpetrators of this treasonous act. Is this sufficient to dissuade a significant proportion of the country from voting on 17th of next month?

30 days to get a new printer and EVID supplier as well as configuring KIEMS afresh.....
It doesnt matter what those guys will do. They might as well fill up for NASA online. You can only plan and choose for yourself. If NASA refuses elections most people wont vote bevause it is a two horse race, so why bother? Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in and NASA can continue with their own agenda. Personally Im ok because this is what I wanted. I did NOT want either a nusumkate situation or a simple redo of 8/8 with only difference being date and number of candidates.
I don't understand what you just said
Yaani, I don't want nusu mkate nor elections that are exactly like the 8/8 elections in all but date and no. of candidates. What I expect to happen re your question is this: if NASA adamantly refuse to participate, most people from most of the country won't turn up. Not necessarily because they love NASA but because it'll be pointless, this being a two-horse race. They may decide to top up votes again just to make the turn out seem bigger but it won't really matter. Uhuru will "win" and be sworn in. Then NASA can continue to push their agenda. I am very much at peace with this.
I think boycotting won't sell or make NASWA smart.
The petition is sort of a precedent that irregularities and illegsties can be flushed out and invalidate an election. So why would they be apprehensive over the same? They cheat , they lose again at SCOK.If one loses in a subsequent election and fails to file a petition, or files and loses, the natural  assumption would be they lost fairly
But whose natural assumption? I'm sure there are many who think this way yet I know there are many who think it is insane to participate in an election run by this same body with the exact same staff and set-up without basic reforms. From Pundit's comment, its clear that many see that no reforms mean a never-ending circus. Whats the point of a petition if you head out, rinse and repeat? That may be a satisfying state of affairs for "many" but I also know it is ludicrous to many others too. Kila mtu na starehe zake, or I should say, na agenda zake. There is not one good reason under the sun for a person who complained of rigging, petitioned the court and got a whole bunch of smelly stuff exposed, to then head to a repeat of the exact same set-up. Raila would actually seem very dumb if he did that and even if he cried rigging thereafter it would not carry sympathies when he did it without insisting that the wrong things be fixed first.
They are not repeating under the 'same set up'. That's a fat myth.
Not accommodating NASWA whining and EACH of their demands doesn't amount to 'same setup' by any stretch of imagination...but I understand that's a convenient narrative in some quarters
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 12:24:24 PM
So what is different?
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 12:26:30 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=5482.0
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 12:28:17 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.

vooke, that link happened before the bonding tetreat with Chiloba and crew, whose answers to the memo only they know.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 12:30:26 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 12:34:16 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 12:39:01 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: bryan275 on September 18, 2017, 12:47:29 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.


There's saying and doing something, and also just saying.  Iebc are just saying while doing nothing.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.
So how is this a challenge to what I said? Just to repeat I said Raila should boycott the elections if there are no reforms. Dont understand the confusion or myth.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 01:10:00 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.
So how is this a challenge to what I said? Just to repeat I said Raila should boycott the elections if there are no reforms. Dont understand the confusion or myth.
That's next to a truism. Problem is Babu's version of what reforms amount to. It's either his 'irreducible minimum' or IEBC is not reformed
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.
So how is this a challenge to what I said? Just to repeat I said Raila should boycott the elections if there are no reforms. Dont understand the confusion or myth.
That's next to a truism. Problem is Babu's version of what reforms amount to. It's either his 'irreducible minimum' or IEBC is not reformed
If IEBC says no to the irreducible, it should have a good reason. Which one do you think is untennable? Reforms means at least those who bungled the last exercise are gone, what happened to the server is fully accessed per the order Chebu are in contempt for disobeying and publicly audited and the transmissions issues sorted and forms and ways to ensure they are replaced/duplicated also sorted. These are what went wrong last time. Asking people to rinse and repeat without sorting these will not constitite a "willingness to reform" no matter what words one prephases the non-action with.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 01:36:48 PM
So what is different?
Dialogue.....sensible dialogue

I shared here IEBC's ideas
????? Dialogue? Thats whats different about this elections? :o Wow.
NASWA's 'irreducible minimum' are dialogue. How else do you expect communication between them?
I'm really confused what your deal is and especially your "big fat myth" since I said its insane to go ahead with the same set-up. What were you rebutting? Im being serious here.

IEBC has demonstrated willingness to change and make necessary changes in the coming elections. So there's no way we can have the 'same setup'.
So how is this a challenge to what I said? Just to repeat I said Raila should boycott the elections if there are no reforms. Dont understand the confusion or myth.
That's next to a truism. Problem is Babu's version of what reforms amount to. It's either his 'irreducible minimum' or IEBC is not reformed
If IEBC says no to the irreducible, it should have a good reason. Which one do you think is untennable? Reforms means at least those who bungled the last exercise are gone, what happened to the server is fully accessed per the order Chebu are in contempt for disobeying and publicly audited and the transmissions issues sorted and forms and ways to ensure they are replaced/duplicated also sorted. These are what went wrong last time. Asking people to rinse and repeat without sorting these will not constitite a "willingness to reform" no matter what words one prephases the non-action with.
Contempt of court if for SCOK to determine. Don't jump gun..you'll know in the next 24hrs

Fingering who IEBC should sack is not helpful unless you know exactly what out of all the presented in court persuaded the judges. Again, don't jump gun. Besides, what if Jubilee similarly and rabidly fingered the proposed replacements as NASWA moles? IEBC is currently under two factions. Let them be, let the equilibrium remain....unless there is some severe indictment of some specific negroes

Parties appointing ROs is schizophrenia. Do you need an explanation?

There's no time for implementing a fresh KIEMS nor fresh tendering. Safran and Al Ghurair are the ONLY sensible option. So any negotiation taking these off is plain stupid,unless someone is fishing for some slice/crumbs.

I can go on and on but as I told you, dialogue is what will help. Not grandstanding. IEBC gave them every Tuesday. Tomorrow will be wasted waiting on the full determination (unless one or both of them are privy to its contents already), but they shouldn't squander it,let them sit and get cover concrete ground,and issue a joint statement to this effect.

Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kadame7 on September 18, 2017, 04:08:59 PM
Contempt of court if for SCOK to determine. Don't jump gun..you'll know in the next 24hrs

Fingering who IEBC should sack is not helpful unless you know exactly what out of all the presented in court persuaded the judges. Again, don't jump gun. Besides, what if Jubilee similarly and rabidly fingered the proposed replacements as NASWA moles? IEBC is currently under two factions. Let them be, let the equilibrium remain....unless there is some severe indictment of some specific negroes

Parties appointing ROs is schizophrenia. Do you need an explanation?

There's no time for implementing a fresh KIEMS nor fresh tendering. Safran and Al Ghurair are the ONLY sensible option. So any negotiation taking these off is plain stupid,unless someone is fishing for some slice/crumbs.

I can go on and on but as I told you, dialogue is what will help. Not grandstanding. IEBC gave them every Tuesday. Tomorrow will be wasted waiting on the full determination (unless one or both of them are privy to its contents already), but they shouldn't squander it,let them sit and get cover concrete ground,and issue a joint statement to this effect.
Like I said, kila mtu na agenda zake.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on September 18, 2017, 04:40:17 PM
If IEBC says no to the irreducible, it should have a good reason. Which one do you think is untennable? Reforms means at least those who bungled the last exercise are gone, what happened to the server is fully accessed per the order Chebu are in contempt for disobeying and publicly audited and the transmissions issues sorted and forms and ways to ensure they are replaced/duplicated also sorted. These are what went wrong last time. Asking people to rinse and repeat without sorting these will not constitite a "willingness to reform" no matter what words one prephases the non-action with.

Yep.  Something like that.  A very basic precondition.  Something went wrong.  Let's air it out and explain why it won't happen this time round.  Then we can try a rerun.  Only a fool(or as is more likely someone with something to hide) suggests going ahead without even acknowledging, let alone trying to understand, the things that went wrong. 
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: RV Pundit on September 18, 2017, 04:43:26 PM
Exactly. The NASA bozos think everyone has suspended their reasoning capacity and donated it to Baba. I am okay if they make reasonable, sensible and practical suggestions. But first of - they need to wait for SCOK decision so we know exactly what didn't meet the muster. Then for any accusation - EVIDENCE - and due process is required. The rest like replacing Algurair or technology or now Safaricom are clear tell-tale signs somebody is erecting road-blocks in election that MUST be held in 30 days now.
Contempt of court if for SCOK to determine. Don't jump gun..you'll know in the next 24hrs

Fingering who IEBC should sack is not helpful unless you know exactly what out of all the presented in court persuaded the judges. Again, don't jump gun. Besides, what if Jubilee similarly and rabidly fingered the proposed replacements as NASWA moles? IEBC is currently under two factions. Let them be, let the equilibrium remain....unless there is some severe indictment of some specific negroes

Parties appointing ROs is schizophrenia. Do you need an explanation?

There's no time for implementing a fresh KIEMS nor fresh tendering. Safran and Al Ghurair are the ONLY sensible option. So any negotiation taking these off is plain stupid,unless someone is fishing for some slice/crumbs.

I can go on and on but as I told you, dialogue is what will help. Not grandstanding. IEBC gave them every Tuesday. Tomorrow will be wasted waiting on the full determination (unless one or both of them are privy to its contents already), but they shouldn't squander it,let them sit and get cover concrete ground,and issue a joint statement to this effect.


Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Kichwa on September 18, 2017, 05:30:30 PM

You cannot have it both ways Pundit. IEBC started the whole thing. They set the date for re-elections, started on the road which seems like reforms by sidelining Chiloba and creating a new team to over-see the elections, then Ruto intervened by strong muscling them and they went back to Chilobo. Why didn't they just wait for the full ruling in the first place.  We are not going to let Ruto run this elections through his paid agents in the secretariat like he did in the now discredited 8/8 presidential elections.

Exactly. The NASA bozos think everyone has suspended their reasoning capacity and donated it to Baba. I am okay if they make reasonable, sensible and practical suggestions. But first of - they need to wait for SCOK decision so we know exactly what didn't meet the muster. Then for any accusation - EVIDENCE - and due process is required. The rest like replacing Algurair or technology or now Safaricom are clear tell-tale signs somebody is erecting road-blocks in election that MUST be held in 30 days now.
Contempt of court if for SCOK to determine. Don't jump gun..you'll know in the next 24hrs

Fingering who IEBC should sack is not helpful unless you know exactly what out of all the presented in court persuaded the judges. Again, don't jump gun. Besides, what if Jubilee similarly and rabidly fingered the proposed replacements as NASWA moles? IEBC is currently under two factions. Let them be, let the equilibrium remain....unless there is some severe indictment of some specific negroes

Parties appointing ROs is schizophrenia. Do you need an explanation?

There's no time for implementing a fresh KIEMS nor fresh tendering. Safran and Al Ghurair are the ONLY sensible option. So any negotiation taking these off is plain stupid,unless someone is fishing for some slice/crumbs.

I can go on and on but as I told you, dialogue is what will help. Not grandstanding. IEBC gave them every Tuesday. Tomorrow will be wasted waiting on the full determination (unless one or both of them are privy to its contents already), but they shouldn't squander it,let them sit and get cover concrete ground,and issue a joint statement to this effect.


Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: Omollo on September 18, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: RV Pundit on September 18, 2017, 05:35:46 PM
So they wriggle their fingers for 30 days as they wait for SCOK. I think they know enough about elections to independently asses what went wrong..with or without this SCOK rulling.. I expect IEBC to continuously improve...as they aim for perfect elections. What I don't expect is NASA jumping the gun and acting like SCOK who can give orders to IEBC. Only judiciary can ORDER IEBC to do xyz. NASA are participant. They cannot order IEBC with some "Minimum Irreducible Demand". They don't have to participate in election; can always ran to court and get ORDERS against IEBC.
You cannot have it both ways Pundit. IEBC started the whole thing. They set the date for re-elections, started on the road which seems like reforms by sidelining Chiloba and creating a new team to over-see the elections, then Ruto intervened by strong muscling them and they went back to Chilobo. Why didn't they just wait for the full ruling in the first place.  We are not going to let Ruto run this elections through his paid agents in the secretariat like he did in the now discredited 8/8 presidential elections.
Title: Re: NASWA vs Safran & IEBC
Post by: vooke on September 18, 2017, 05:42:20 PM
So they wriggle their fingers for 30 days as they wait for SCOK. I think they know enough about elections to independently asses what went wrong..with or without this SCOK rulling.. I expect IEBC to continuously improve...as they aim for perfect elections. What I don't expect is NASA jumping the gun and acting like SCOK who can give orders to IEBC. Only judiciary can ORDER IEBC to do xyz. NASA are participant. They cannot order IEBC with some "Minimum Irreducible Demand". They don't have to participate in election; can always ran to court and get ORDERS against IEBC.
You cannot have it both ways Pundit. IEBC started the whole thing. They set the date for re-elections, started on the road which seems like reforms by sidelining Chiloba and creating a new team to over-see the elections, then Ruto intervened by strong muscling them and they went back to Chilobo. Why didn't they just wait for the full ruling in the first place.  We are not going to let Ruto run this elections through his paid agents in the secretariat like he did in the now discredited 8/8 presidential elections.
The courts are unlikely to help NASWA hence the wild demands.

But my hunch tells me this makelele is just aiming impossibly higher and landing somewhere higher than you but way lower than you aimed.