You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
So why do you think Kenyan journalists are being jailed for wearing a bullet proof vest? The main stream Kenyan media is now under the control of the government and they are forbidden from independent gathering of information. The information is coming from cell phones, pictures and videos fed into and the internet just like Syria.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
So why do you think Kenyan journalists are being jailed for wearing a bullet proof vest? The main stream Kenyan media is now under the control of the government and they are forbidden from independent gathering of information. The information is coming from cell phones, pictures and videos fed into and the internet just like Syria.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
So why do you think Kenyan journalists are being jailed for wearing a bullet proof vest? The main stream Kenyan media is now under the control of the government and they are forbidden from independent gathering of information. The information is coming from cell phones, pictures and videos fed into and the internet just like Syria.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I'm allergic to conspiracy theories.75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I believe Orengo on death count. The media has been gagged for this reason. We also had the story of body bags during campaigns. In 2008 the deaths were many more than the official 1600 - same as the phony 3000 deaths of US 9-11. Govts lie all the time to "maintain order". I find this suppressing of the truth for security reasons to be valid.
In Syria, there are hard core Bashar al-Assad supporters who do not believe that he has gassed innocent women and children. Ouruto supporters would not accept police are killing NASA supporters even if you showed them a video.Syria atrocities are WIDELY reported by independent organizations.
So why do you think Kenyan journalists are being jailed for wearing a bullet proof vest? The main stream Kenyan media is now under the control of the government and they are forbidden from independent gathering of information. The information is coming from cell phones, pictures and videos fed into and the internet just like Syria.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
Wholly agreed. Cops should exercise restraint. Police are using live bullets, but recall they fire into the air to control crowds. I say that because I'm seeing spent cartridges as proof of a massacre.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
I am glad you are not celebrating. One death is one death too many. We need to preserve life at all costs if the loss of property should be allowed to happen to preserve these idiots lives. They need to live to their full. Police should use every restraint.
Destruction of property is not a way of protesting. #KenyaDecided pic.twitter.com/Q75KhHE8aP
— Robert ALAI, HSC (@RobertAlai) August 12, 2017
Wholly agreed. Cops should exercise restraint. Police are using live bullets, but recall they fire into the air to control crowds. I say that because I'm seeing spent cartridges as proof of a massacre.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
I am glad you are not celebrating. One death is one death too many. We need to preserve life at all costs if the loss of property should be allowed to happen to preserve these idiots lives. They need to live to their full. Police should use every restraint.
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Bear in mind too there's more going on than 'peaceful protests'Destruction of property is not a way of protesting. #KenyaDecided pic.twitter.com/Q75KhHE8aP
— Robert ALAI, HSC (@RobertAlai) August 12, 2017
NASWA has made unsubstantiated claims of rigging and won't release them to the public. They won't go to courts whips h I'd expect to be fair arbiters. This is the very genesis of these deaths. What exactly do they wish Uhunye did to arrest it? Step down right after being declared winner?
I guess when Matiangi says that No live bullets have been used, then you do not need any evidence because somehow it is already substantiate. You must think everybody is an idiot.Matiangi said no live bullets were used on peaceful protesters. They was used on looters and riotersWholly agreed. Cops should exercise restraint. Police are using live bullets, but recall they fire into the air to control crowds. I say that because I'm seeing spent cartridges as proof of a massacre.You are celebrating this carnage I can see.. I hope you are a victim of itNo I'm not. No death is insignificant, but I'd not put it beyond NASWA to exaggerate the figures, literally dance on the graves of the victims, to advance their victimhood. And knowing intelligent Kenyans will demand evidence, they now claim that the cops are hiding the bodies.
So how does that hide deaths? The victims come from families and soon there will be hundreds of disappearance reports. NASWA is full of shiet
I am glad you are not celebrating. One death is one death too many. We need to preserve life at all costs if the loss of property should be allowed to happen to preserve these idiots lives. They need to live to their full. Police should use every restraint.
Bear in mind too there's more going on than 'peaceful protests'
NASWA has made unsubstantiated claims of rigging and won't release them to the public. They won't go to courts whips h I'd expect to be fair arbiters. This is the very genesis of these deaths. What exactly do they wish Uhunye did to arrest it? Step down right after being declared winner?
I'm allergic to conspiracy theories.75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I believe Orengo on death count. The media has been gagged for this reason. We also had the story of body bags during campaigns. In 2008 the deaths were many more than the official 1600 - same as the phony 3000 deaths of US 9-11. Govts lie all the time to "maintain order". I find this suppressing of the truth for security reasons to be valid.
Waki/CIPEV Commission did the investigation and arrived at 1,163. They visited morgues,hot spots,interviewed hundreds of witnesses,cops...before arriving at 1,163 So unless you are insinuating that they were compromised, then you should back up your claims.
KNCHR is credible, and unless Omorlo can spin another yarn of how Jubilated they are, I got no reason to quadruple their figure
KNCHR is lying for GoK? What else, Uhunye is drinking blood of the protestors?I'm allergic to conspiracy theories.75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I believe Orengo on death count. The media has been gagged for this reason. We also had the story of body bags during campaigns. In 2008 the deaths were many more than the official 1600 - same as the phony 3000 deaths of US 9-11. Govts lie all the time to "maintain order". I find this suppressing of the truth for security reasons to be valid.
Waki/CIPEV Commission did the investigation and arrived at 1,163. They visited morgues,hot spots,interviewed hundreds of witnesses,cops...before arriving at 1,163 So unless you are insinuating that they were compromised, then you should back up your claims.
KNCHR is credible, and unless Omorlo can spin another yarn of how Jubilated they are, I got no reason to quadruple their figure
Matiang'i and KNHRC are lying for the same reason the US lied over 9-11 - national image.
KNCHR is lying for GoK? What else, Uhunye is drinking blood of the protestors?I'm allergic to conspiracy theories.75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I believe Orengo on death count. The media has been gagged for this reason. We also had the story of body bags during campaigns. In 2008 the deaths were many more than the official 1600 - same as the phony 3000 deaths of US 9-11. Govts lie all the time to "maintain order". I find this suppressing of the truth for security reasons to be valid.
Waki/CIPEV Commission did the investigation and arrived at 1,163. They visited morgues,hot spots,interviewed hundreds of witnesses,cops...before arriving at 1,163 So unless you are insinuating that they were compromised, then you should back up your claims.
KNCHR is credible, and unless Omorlo can spin another yarn of how Jubilated they are, I got no reason to quadruple their figure
Matiang'i and KNHRC are lying for the same reason the US lied over 9-11 - national image.
Vooke,I have been following news reports and SM. That alone goes beyond 24 by far. There are photos of bodies by International Journalists who braved the Cholera scare.
Where are the bodies? In the mortuary or in Government dumpsites? when a protester is killed who investigates? I saw Commissioner Njenga saying that those killed are looters and that investigations will carried. Why is the minister claiming no live ammunition is used when evidence points to live ammunition being used indiscriminately?
I know this guy vooke is a turncoat. He is a sadist he is hiding behind government official statements.. KHRC is not what it used to be. I wonder where they got this slow woman
Robina you are not sober. You so badly want to buy NASWA unsubstantiated nonsense and you are willing to throw your otherwise rational approach to politics through the window.KNCHR is lying for GoK? What else, Uhunye is drinking blood of the protestors?I'm allergic to conspiracy theories.75 deaths known ONLY to NASWA and NOBODY ELSE is a huge joke. Tell me, does a higher body count work for or against NASWA?
I believe Orengo on death count. The media has been gagged for this reason. We also had the story of body bags during campaigns. In 2008 the deaths were many more than the official 1600 - same as the phony 3000 deaths of US 9-11. Govts lie all the time to "maintain order". I find this suppressing of the truth for security reasons to be valid.
Waki/CIPEV Commission did the investigation and arrived at 1,163. They visited morgues,hot spots,interviewed hundreds of witnesses,cops...before arriving at 1,163 So unless you are insinuating that they were compromised, then you should back up your claims.
KNCHR is credible, and unless Omorlo can spin another yarn of how Jubilated they are, I got no reason to quadruple their figure
Matiang'i and KNHRC are lying for the same reason the US lied over 9-11 - national image.
KNCHR is lying for Kenya - same reason I think there should be no riots and all disputes must be resolved in court. Not everyone is sapped into the Uhuru-NASA zerosum game.
Omorlo, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.Vooke,I have been following news reports and SM. That alone goes beyond 24 by far. There are photos of bodies by International Journalists who braved the Cholera scare.
Where are the bodies? In the mortuary or in Government dumpsites? when a protester is killed who investigates? I saw Commissioner Njenga saying that those killed are looters and that investigations will carried. Why is the minister claiming no live ammunition is used when evidence points to live ammunition being used indiscriminately?
ALL have bullets as usual.
vooke is playing his favorite game about the Kisumu dead after Uthamaki killings.
The best approach is to tell him nobody died and ask him to relax and go join the celebrations in Gatundu.
CLARIFICATION ON FALSE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST POLICE.
— National Police Service-Kenya (@NPSOfficial_KE) August 13, 2017
The National Police Service takes great exception to... https://t.co/vA61quZTVi
If just one person is killed under the conditions being reported, that is a tragedy and the Matiangis of this world should be held accountable.Injuries let alone death are just as bad.
If just one person is killed under the conditions being reported, that is a tragedy and the Matiangis of this world should be held accountable.Injuries let alone death are just as bad.
What NASWA can't do is go past its shitty rigging claims and assume the activist role hoping we will all forget Babu is busy subverting democracy because he's on it's receiving end
If just one person is killed under the conditions being reported, that is a tragedy and the Matiangis of this world should be held accountable.Injuries let alone death are just as bad.
What NASWA can't do is go past its shitty rigging claims and assume the activist role hoping we will all forget Babu is busy subverting democracy because he's on it's receiving end
One of your passions appears to be to normalize and minimize the excesses of the Jubilant regime. Suppose Baba is subverting democracy, how does it explain this tweet?
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It reminds me of what one Israeli official said after they killed Palestinian demonstrators, "I hate the Palestinians for making our boys kill them". That is the crap Pastor Vooke is trying to sell here-that he hates Raila for making their boys kill innocent Kenyans. I wanted to use a certain well known analogy to further make the point but I know Robina and the ladies on this board will kill me.If just one person is killed under the conditions being reported, that is a tragedy and the Matiangis of this world should be held accountable.Injuries let alone death are just as bad.
What NASWA can't do is go past its shitty rigging claims and assume the activist role hoping we will all forget Babu is busy subverting democracy because he's on it's receiving end
One of your passions appears to be to normalize and minimize the excesses of the Jubilant regime. Suppose Baba is subverting democracy, how does it explain this tweet?
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Lenser Achieng, the mother, said police lobbed tear gas cannisters into their home at 2am on Saturday during house-to-house raids following post-election protests.
“My husband was forced to open the door as we were being chocked by the teargas,” the 29-year-old said.
Police then dragged her husband Joseph Abanja out and beat him up before turning on Achieng.
She sustained limb and abdominal injuries as she tried to rescue her baby.
"When I fell down, one of the officers hit the baby on the head with a club. She became unconscious and we thought she was dead," the mother said.
“We desperately visited a number of hospitals around but all were closed then we took her to Aga Khan,” Achieng said.
The family appealed for well-wishers to support them as they are unable to meet the hospital bills.
“I went through a lot to have this baby. I have had two miscarriages before. I am worried about the status of my baby and I do hope God will see us through,” Achieng said.
If just one person is killed under the conditions being reported, that is a tragedy and the Matiangis of this world should be held accountable.Injuries let alone death are just as bad.
What NASWA can't do is go past its shitty rigging claims and assume the activist role hoping we will all forget Babu is busy subverting democracy because he's on it's receiving end
One of your passions appears to be to normalize and minimize the excesses of the Jubilant regime. Suppose Baba is subverting democracy, how does it explain this tweet?
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Are you saying the guy must have used his own baby as a human shield? Is that also the excuse the police are giving? That you saw another guy using some else's baby as a shield. Is that your evidence?Nope, I'm saying it doesn't make sense clobbering an immobile and totally unthreatening infant. I don't know the other half of the account, and I have seen a goon spin a long yarn that fell apart a few photos later.
But in your own version you have these cops clobbering a baby because it was being used as a shield. I am unsure how you think this makes the situation even 0.1% better.Are you saying the guy must have used his own baby as a human shield? Is that also the excuse the police are giving? That you saw another guy using some else's baby as a shield. Is that your evidence?Nope, I'm saying it doesn't make sense clobbering an immobile and totally unthreatening infant. I don't know the other half of the account, and I have seen a goon spin a long yarn that fell apart a few photos later.
But in your own version you have these cops clobbering a baby because it was being used as a shield. I am unsure how you think this makes the situation even 0.1% better.Are you saying the guy must have used his own baby as a human shield? Is that also the excuse the police are giving? That you saw another guy using some else's baby as a shield. Is that your evidence?Nope, I'm saying it doesn't make sense clobbering an immobile and totally unthreatening infant. I don't know the other half of the account, and I have seen a goon spin a long yarn that fell apart a few photos later.
About sense: It makes about as much sense to say the guy used his own baby as a shield. Except this is totally made up by you, vooke without any evidence.
Also, a guy "shielding" himself is obviously not endangering anyone, why exactly was he getting clobbered with a club rather than getting arrested or left alone?
2) EVEN MORE SO WHEN THERE WAS A FREAKIN BABY IN THE WAY?????????????
The unyama of a cop who goes ahead to clobber a baby because its being used as shield is exactly the same as one who clobbers one just because. Normal people don't swing clubs at babies whatever the reason.
I also AM NOT giving KENYA's security forces ANY benefit of the doubt:
-There brutality is legendary
-There is a media gag
That means things are going on that someone doesnt want to be caught in camera likely to avoid a situation like the 2008 PEV cop in Kisumu who was seen committing murder on KTN and eventually convicted based on that footage.
I do not know the other side of the account and neither do you. All I did was give possible narrative.No looters/rioters will admit as much. BTW it's also possible many hid in his house and teargas was lobbed to flush them out....ad nauseum.vooke, just step back a bit and look at what you're saying: the narrative you propose is based on completely ignoring the testimony of the people who were involved and appears to be done in order to make people known for their brutality look better. Step one is therefore throwing away the only info we have that is based in reality and then step two is replacing it with one thats not. I dont understand why you think that aporoach is more sensible. For me, I think its beyter to accept the account of these PARENTS whose baby is lying nearly dead in a hospital until we have other contradictory information.
The current account is reprehensible but it doesn't make any sense.
I do not know the other side of the account and neither do you. All I did was give possible narrative.No looters/rioters will admit as much. BTW it's also possible many hid in his house and teargas was lobbed to flush them out....ad nauseum.vooke, just step back a bit and look at what you're saying: the narrative you propose is based on completely ignoring the testimony of the people who were involved and appears to be done in order to make people known for their brutality look better. Step one is therefore throwing away the only info we have that is based in reality and then step two is replacing it with one thats not. I dont understand why you think that aporoach is more sensible. For me, I think its beyter to accept the account of these PARENTS whose baby is lying nearly dead in a hospital until we have other contradictory information.
The current account is reprehensible but it doesn't make any sense.
#Kivumbi2017 Remember the Boniface Manono incident? Was the policeman ever punished? Why should we expect those involved now to be? @KTNNews pic.twitter.com/BgfkgMuWAb
— gathara (@gathara) August 13, 2017
I think believing the people involved (actual witnesses) in the absence of any contradictory evidence is still tonnes better than immediately making up a story that has no basis or source anywhere and places 100% of the blame on the hurt person saying that police came to their house, beat them up including their baby who as sure as day is in hospital nearly dying. It earily reminds me of those days a woman was accused of causing her own rape as a knee-jerk response the very moment she reported it. Sure, there are women who have lied before, but a knee-jerk reaction to an accusation of an injured person being immediately (and WITHOUT facts) "she probably caused it" also says a lot. Here you are extremely biased vooke. And it's showing.
vooke's logic? I don't believe it, therefore it is not true.. Have the cops even denied this story? Do they even have a version or are we supposed to believe anybody's made up version until they cobble up a narrative?Cops rejecting it won't change you if your past is anything to go by. NASWA spewed shiet on IEBC 'leaks' and you ran around just because IEBC had yet to deny. They tore it apart a few hours later and you pretended not to see the debunking.
vooke's logic? I don't believe it, therefore it is not true.. Have the cops even denied this story? Do they even have a version or are we supposed to believe anybody's made up version until they cobble up a narrative?Cops rejecting it won't change you if your past is anything to go by. NASWA spewed shiet on IEBC 'leaks' and you ran around just because IEBC had yet to deny. They tore it apart a few hours later and you pretended not to see the debunking.
They have denied more obvious and less disgusting stuff, so you can bet they will deny this or spin another yarn
Well, with respect, what you've displayed here is a tad different. Its not just sjepticism, there is an addes layer of what behaviours you think are believable for cops and for this couple. Not only is your benefit of the doubt already with the cops, with their history in this country, but you have dismissed this couple's story outright even without a competing story to pick sides on.I think believing the people involved (actual witnesses) in the absence of any contradictory evidence is still tonnes better than immediately making up a story that has no basis or source anywhere and places 100% of the blame on the hurt person saying that police came to their house, beat them up including their baby who as sure as day is in hospital nearly dying. It earily reminds me of those days a woman was accused of causing her own rape as a knee-jerk response the very moment she reported it. Sure, there are women who have lied before, but a knee-jerk reaction to an accusation of an injured person being immediately (and WITHOUT facts) "she probably caused it" also says a lot. Here you are extremely biased vooke. And it's showing.
They are not mutually exclusive; Manono's script was believable. The couple's script too. You can work with that while being skeptical. Skepticism doesn't mean dismissing an account
Kadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
Kadame,If you notice, Im not saying anything about NASA claims. This is an environment where the media has been deliberately excluded. That alone makes all my alarms go up. I cant just "buy" the "official narrative": this is are forces that EJKs problematic individuals like suspected thieves, terrorists, mungiki members, you name it. Kenyan security forces and brutality go together like bread and jam. So if I have a dead baby, its parents, and their non-contradicted version of events, I'm going with it.
Concerning IEBC, NASWA has since elections made two sets of claims. The first was the so called IEBC server logs. There's a thread on that by Pundito.
The second one came later, they claimed to have received some leaks from an IEBC whistleblower showing the actual results which were differing from what was on the portal and what was being relayed on tv. The results were clustered by Counties showed Baba leading. They called a presser on this basis and demanded Baba be declared to be the winner. They also sent IEBC a letter to this effect. IEBC responded during their next presser and issued a letter.
I will try and get you the 'leak'. Here's the presser;
Here's IEBC's response which came about 3-4 hours later on Thursday. Can't fetch the relevant tweet but I saved a copy of the letter to my drive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2rMMQJiqMB8T3lCLVRqV196blU/view?usp=drivesdk
Chebukati's presser on NASWA's demands
Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
There are no inconsistencies in the story, vooke: it "adds up"Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
Sorry, it was Termie who asked for IEBC's response. I replied with these clips and document but he's decidedly blind.Kadame,If you notice, Im not saying anything about NASA claims. This is an environment where the media has been deliberately excluded. That alone makes all my alarms go up. I cant just "buy" the "official narrative": this is are forces that EJKs problematic individuals like suspected thieves, terrorists, mungiki members, you name it. Kenyan security forces and brutality go together like bread and jam. So if I have a dead baby, its parents, and their non-contradicted version of events, I'm going with it.
Concerning IEBC, NASWA has since elections made two sets of claims. The first was the so called IEBC server logs. There's a thread on that by Pundito.
The second one came later, they claimed to have received some leaks from an IEBC whistleblower showing the actual results which were differing from what was on the portal and what was being relayed on tv. The results were clustered by Counties showed Baba leading. They called a presser on this basis and demanded Baba be declared to be the winner. They also sent IEBC a letter to this effect. IEBC responded during their next presser and issued a letter.
I will try and get you the 'leak'. Here's the presser;
Here's IEBC's response which came about 3-4 hours later on Thursday. Can't fetch the relevant tweet but I saved a copy of the letter to my drive
Chebukati's presser on NASWA's demands
It is a consistent one sided spin.There are no inconsistencies in the story, vooke: it "adds up"Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
Means exactly that. Why can't you get over my skepticism?Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
What does that even mean? All you have said is you don't believe it, in not so few words. So what? as Kichwa would ask. You might as well ask the parents not to believe their lying eyes.
Means exactly that. Why can't you get over my skepticism?Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
What does that even mean? All you have said is you don't believe it, in not so few words. So what? as Kichwa would ask. You might as well ask the parents not to believe their lying eyes.
It is a consistent one sided spin.But it is not a spin. Its the only story we have. Literally. How do you know it is a spin when you dont have contradictory facts? I'm giving up now. :D You and Termi keep fighting.
It's more important than a one sided accountMeans exactly that. Why can't you get over my skepticism?Dead/alive, the story does not add upKadame,
I have lived in Kenia all my life and I have heard of stray bullets but I've never heard of cops clobbering a 6-month infant. 1982 coup never got us there, nor KDF deployment to Mt Elgon. Even the worst of Mungiki excesses, they had limits. Al shabaab too have limits. The closest we came to this is a Pokot raid where they killed a heavily pregnant woman sometimes early this year.
So I'm equally horrified by this account.
But on the basis of all I know about our disciplined forces, I can't help but express my skepticism.
I've seen gore, gunshot injuries, bodies in Kisumu yet I'm.not even trying to dispute that. I'm not even asking for context or corroboration. But clobbering a tiny immobile piece of humanity?
And here we are with the clobbered and now deceased infant. Mere belief or disbelief manufactures new facts only in your mind.
What does that even mean? All you have said is you don't believe it, in not so few words. So what? as Kichwa would ask. You might as well ask the parents not to believe their lying eyes.
Because you think your skepticism is more important than the evidence.
It is a consistent one sided spin.But it is not a spin. Its the only story we have. Literally. How do you know it is a spin when you dont have contradictory facts? I'm giving up now. :D You and Termi keep fighting.
It is a consistent one sided spin.But it is not a spin. Its the only story we have. Literally. How do you know it is a spin when you dont have contradictory facts? I'm giving up now. :D You and Termi keep fighting.
You are right. vooke apparently uses skepticism to manufacture a new reality when he encounters a "one-sided" story. Even when there is no contradictory narrative of the same put forth by those accused. Skepticism becomes something to protect him from unfavorable narratives rather than to promote inquiry. The strangest use of the device that I have seen to date.
Ok, I said I was done...BUT....my dear vooke, you are the first to rubbish conspiracies. Literally, we have a baby who was clobbered and died. You saying its parents are spinning a narrative just for Raila? Or have I misunderstood you here?It is a consistent one sided spin.But it is not a spin. Its the only story we have. Literally. How do you know it is a spin when you dont have contradictory facts? I'm giving up now. :D You and Termi keep fighting.
You are right. vooke apparently uses skepticism to manufacture a new reality when he encounters a "one-sided" story. Even when there is no contradictory narrative of the same put forth by those accused. Skepticism becomes something to protect him from unfavorable narratives rather than to promote inquiry. The strangest use of the device that I have seen to date.
Police shot an 8yr old and the whole word reported that. Clobbering a 6 month old ranks far higher. Who benefits from such an account?
Yes you have. The primary beneficiaries of the narrative are the parents especially if the father was one of the rioters. Like Manino, he wouldn't get much mercy if he was a lawless thug who ran to his house when cornered. Secondary beneficiaries are the rigging claims gang. A perfect distraction from the baseless claims. You demand evidence for rigging and they drown you with gore.Ok, I said I was done...BUT....my dear vooke, you are the first to rubbish conspiracies. Literally, we have a baby who was clobbered and died. You saying its parents are spinning a narrative just for Raila? Or have I misunderstood you here?It is a consistent one sided spin.But it is not a spin. Its the only story we have. Literally. How do you know it is a spin when you dont have contradictory facts? I'm giving up now. :D You and Termi keep fighting.
You are right. vooke apparently uses skepticism to manufacture a new reality when he encounters a "one-sided" story. Even when there is no contradictory narrative of the same put forth by those accused. Skepticism becomes something to protect him from unfavorable narratives rather than to promote inquiry. The strangest use of the device that I have seen to date.
Police shot an 8yr old and the whole word reported that. Clobbering a 6 month old ranks far higher. Who benefits from such an account?
Yes you have. The primary beneficiaries of the narrative are the parents especially if the father was one of the rioters. Like Manino, he wouldn't get much mercy if he was a lawless thug who ran to his house when cornered. Secondary beneficiaries are the rigging claims gang. A perfect distraction from the baseless claims. You demand evidence for rigging and they drown you with gore.I feel you have seriously underestimated Kenyans sense of outrage for unyama and empathy for a baby. Like I said, a cop who clobbers an infant just because his father rioted in the streets is JUST as much a despicable monster as one who does it just because. A seriously deficient conscience might excuse this monstrous action in those circumstances but most folks would never accept the idea of transfering punishment for sin committed by one person to another ESPECIALLY A SUCKLING INFANT.
There is no excuse whatsoever for clobbering a sucking infant. Everyone knows that. So that's the best narrative to advance..unlikely to be questioned tooYes you have. The primary beneficiaries of the narrative are the parents especially if the father was one of the rioters. Like Manino, he wouldn't get much mercy if he was a lawless thug who ran to his house when cornered. Secondary beneficiaries are the rigging claims gang. A perfect distraction from the baseless claims. You demand evidence for rigging and they drown you with gore.I feel you have seriously underestimated Kenyans sense of outrage for unyama and empathy for a baby. Like I said, a cop who clobbers an infant just because his father rioted in the streets is JUST as much a despicable monster as one who does it just because. A seriously deficient conscience might excuse this monstrous action in those circumstances but most folks would never accept the idea of transfering punishment for sin committed by one person to another ESPECIALLY A SUCKLING INFANT.
The baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
Never to the extent of 'clobbering' babiesThe baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
He creates a narrative. Then manufactures the facts that fit it, if he can't find any in the real world. If any real facts contradict the narrative, he denies them validity or minimizes them. Seems like a hell of a load on the brain to go through life like that. The cognitive dissonance.
Who in this day and age doesn't know Kenyan "disciplined" forces are savages?
The baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?Baby had some head injuries, 'clobbering' is what the parents claim to be the cause
You wonder. vooke's entire position is grounded on his firm faith that these brutal officers "CAN'T, they simply CAN'T". That's it. It would be one thing if there was no injured baby and or this injury did not occur from the same night and area where police were beating people up. The kid's dad has injuries himself. vooke has niw gone from claiming this guy probably used his baby as a shield and got it clobbered in the process (a narrative he came up with because the baby at the hospital could not be wished away) to now denying that the baby was clobbered at all. So the parents must have hurt their own baby and are framing our saintly security forces. :oThe baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
He creates a narrative. Then manufactures the facts that fit it, if he can't find any in the real world. If any real facts contradict the narrative, he denies them validity or minimizes them. Seems like a hell of a load on the brain to go through life like that. The cognitive dissonance.
Who in this day and age doesn't know Kenyan "disciplined" forces are savages?
It's grounded on absence or corroborating account.You wonder. vooke's entire position is grounded on his firm faith that these brutal officers "CAN'T, they simply CAN'T". That's it. It would be one thing if there was no injured baby and or this injury did not occur from the same night and area where police were beating people up. The kid's dad has injuries himself. vooke has niw gone from claiming this guy probably used his baby as a shield and got it clobbered in the process (a narrative he came up with because the baby at the hospital could not be wished away) to now denying that the baby was clobbered at all. So the parents must have hurt their own baby and are framing our saintly security forces. :oThe baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
He creates a narrative. Then manufactures the facts that fit it, if he can't find any in the real world. If any real facts contradict the narrative, he denies them validity or minimizes them. Seems like a hell of a load on the brain to go through life like that. The cognitive dissonance.
Who in this day and age doesn't know Kenyan "disciplined" forces are savages?
If a baby fell during "altercation with cops", it would still be the cops fault. You seem to be operating under the belief that if someone has made the unforgivable mistake of demonstrating or even rioting, the cops get a free pass to do everything under the sun as long as they get to hurt him in the end.It's grounded on absence or corroborating account.You wonder. vooke's entire position is grounded on his firm faith that these brutal officers "CAN'T, they simply CAN'T". That's it. It would be one thing if there was no injured baby and or this injury did not occur from the same night and area where police were beating people up. The kid's dad has injuries himself. vooke has niw gone from claiming this guy probably used his baby as a shield and got it clobbered in the process (a narrative he came up with because the baby at the hospital could not be wished away) to now denying that the baby was clobbered at all. So the parents must have hurt their own baby and are framing our saintly security forces. :oThe baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
He creates a narrative. Then manufactures the facts that fit it, if he can't find any in the real world. If any real facts contradict the narrative, he denies them validity or minimizes them. Seems like a hell of a load on the brain to go through life like that. The cognitive dissonance.
Who in this day and age doesn't know Kenyan "disciplined" forces are savages?
Infant falls during an altercation with cops and once cops are gone you'd be an idiot to blame an accident for the injuries. Nobody pays your bills. Cops? You get a private wing in a premier hospital
Baby falling is not baby being clobberedIf a baby fell during "altercation with cops", it would still be the cops fault. You seem to be operating under the belief that if someone has made the unforgivable mistake of demonstrating or even rioting, the cops get a free pass to do everything under the sun as long as they get to hurt him in the end.It's grounded on absence or corroborating account.You wonder. vooke's entire position is grounded on his firm faith that these brutal officers "CAN'T, they simply CAN'T". That's it. It would be one thing if there was no injured baby and or this injury did not occur from the same night and area where police were beating people up. The kid's dad has injuries himself. vooke has niw gone from claiming this guy probably used his baby as a shield and got it clobbered in the process (a narrative he came up with because the baby at the hospital could not be wished away) to now denying that the baby was clobbered at all. So the parents must have hurt their own baby and are framing our saintly security forces. :oThe baby WAS clobbered during the Kisumu unrests. That's not in debate. Its head injuries and death is proof enough. So whodunit according to you, vooke? It's parents? Then they framed the cops? Or covered for goons? The dad also has his own injuries from that same night. What you saying: That someone did hurt the baby but according to you it certainly wasnt the cops beating people up in their houses?
He creates a narrative. Then manufactures the facts that fit it, if he can't find any in the real world. If any real facts contradict the narrative, he denies them validity or minimizes them. Seems like a hell of a load on the brain to go through life like that. The cognitive dissonance.
Who in this day and age doesn't know Kenyan "disciplined" forces are savages?
Infant falls during an altercation with cops and once cops are gone you'd be an idiot to blame an accident for the injuries. Nobody pays your bills. Cops? You get a private wing in a premier hospital