Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: MOON Ki on August 09, 2017, 07:19:24 PM
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As expected, a circus, on which I have little to say. The little that I have is as follows.
Has there been some mischief in the conduct of these elections? I'm sure of it; otherwise it would not be Kenyan Elections. Just how much is the question. Presumably the court cases will sort out some things. But did the Opposition really have a strong chance of winning? Prior to the elections, I made various comments that were vigorously opposed, denied, etc., by people who saw only what they wanted to see. Many of those comments were about the Opposition's preparation, which they should have started right after the 2013 elections. Here is a summary from a couple of months ago:
My thoughts on these elections were that for the Opposition to win they would have to:
(a) ensure that their supporters---whether categorized by "tribe" or by "issues"---registered in massive numbers;
(b) do a better job on turnout than they did in 2013;
(c) the combination of (a) and (b) sufficient to ensure a "rig-proof" majority.
I wrote quite a bit on (a), and you, Omollo, and I exchanged views on the same. I'm not sure that they did (a), but I haven't seen the official numbers, so I can't comment any further. I don't know what the strategy and situation are with regard to (b), but I hope it does not revolve on the assumption (proven wrong in the past) that huge crowds at rallies mean so many votes in the bag.
I have no great expertise in politics, but after the last elections, I did a "project-management exercise" on how the Opposition might go about winning the next elections---what they would have to do, when it have to be done, who would do what, where, plans for contingencies for missed deadlines and "non-deliverables", when to start (right after the last elections!), etc. I have seen little of that. Yes, mine was an "amateur project plan", but still.
http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=4567.msg32878#msg32878
To the future:
Regardless of how much mischief gets discovered, it is most likely that Jubilee will remain in power. (Even with court cases, this is Kenya, and judges too are mindful of power.) Taking a long-term view, that is not necessarily bad: Kenyans get serious about change only when the pain is sufficiently high, and another five years of Jubilee might just be what the doctor ordered. In that context, even Sonko will be "good" for Nairobi.
For the other positions, all sorts of thieves and scoundrels have been voted into office. By this time next year, Kenyans will be complaining: "Thieves and scoundrels, the entire lot! We'll throw them out at the next elections!". And so on it will go, as usual.
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This time, Im totally with you.
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
I thought MOAS was the thing. Predictable even long before campaigns....lol! Do you think if tbe opposition had ran a serious campaign and stayed on message they would have beaten your MOAS? Cant have it both ways Pundit...so your demands dont make sense in light of your claims over the past year :D
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
I thought MOAS was the thing. Predictable even long before campaigns....lol! Do you think if tbe opposition had ran a serious campaign and stayed on message they would have beaten your MOAS? Cant have it both ways Pundit...so your demands dont make sense in light of your claims over the past year :D
I don't think campaigns are inconsistent with MOAS
Politicians are going to ride on tribe whether they like it or not, but before they ride on that, they must be reasonably prominent. Prominence is where campaigns come in. They buy and maintain your prominence. Shebesh for instance went out of sight and that's where she lost her prominence. No amount of campaigning would save her
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that I accept your claim. How does it affect what I have written?
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Moon Ki
The Opposition working under very hostile circumstances managed to secure a win. The reason there is an impasse as of now is known to every Kenyan.
I am not sure about the part about Uhuru remaining in power. He lost too badly to attempt a Kibaki. The IEBC has been slowly but surely working through the mess and the information we have negates the view of automaticity in terms of holding on to power. He can do that if he is ready for another round of PEV. I am moderately convinced he lacks the stomach and stamina to withstand even one full week of mass action and the attendant killings. The tigger will be him being declared the winner. Just like Kibaki's swearing in unleashed hell in 2007. What is keeping people calm is the hope that the IEBC and Uhuru will see sense and not proceed on this journey.
I am willing to accept if to avoid shame, he agrees to a runoff in which he would eschew the acts of fraud and blatant electoral fraud. However there is the matter of MPs, Governors and MCAs who have also been rigged in.
If I digress, Kibaki partialy pulled it off because he only targeted the Presidency and never interfered with the other races with a few exceptions.Uhuru has gone for an omnibus rigging and that has simply mobilized forces that even Rasila has no control over.
For Kenya to change, the electoral system would have to be reformed along with the revival and strengthening of independent institutions. Jubilee has spent its time in office pulverizing all of the institutions to the extent that we are now where we were in 2007 when going to the courts was not an option.
I believe NASA will send a trial balloon to Njoki and Maraga's court and if it bursts believe you me, they will not step within 100KMs of the so called Supreme Court.
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
Kindly keep Jubilee Post Rigging Propaganda out of some threads. We are all experts in spinning so please don't attempt to spin to spinners.
Accord as "professional" courtesy even as burglars meeting in a house salute each other.
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
I thought MOAS was the thing. Predictable even long before campaigns....lol! Do you think if tbe opposition had ran a serious campaign and stayed on message they would have beaten your MOAS? Cant have it both ways Pundit...so your demands dont make sense in light of your claims over the past year :D
I don't think campaigns are inconsistent with MOAS
Politicians are going to ride on tribe whether they like it or not, but before they ride on that, they must be reasonably prominent. Prominence is where campaigns come in. They buy and maintain your prominence. Shebesh for instance went out of sight and that's where she lost her prominence. No amount of campaigning would save her
You think the President and Deputy need campaigns to acquire or maintain prominence? Especially in their tribes? Lol c'mon vooke. They couldnt lose prominence if they paid to while holding those positions. Besides, MOAS is based on people who are already leaders. So unless a President/DPORK could realistically stand a chance of losing it to a nobody from their own tribe, campaigns have zero to do with it. The rest comes from gaining the allegiance of tribal and subtribal leaders. Thats MOAS. Campaigns assume you can go directly to the people...the thought! :D
My argument against what pundit is demanding is that he wants to CREDIT the result to campaign and messaging and not MOAS....which is so predictable he can tell you what the result will be next election. :D
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Omollo:
On the "hostile circumstances", my views, expressed here over a long period and summarized above, were that there was nevertheless a great deal that the Opposition could have and should have done (if they wanted victory), and I saw little of it in the 4+ years since 2013.
On Uhuru and Jubilee holding onto power, by whatever means, this is Kenya, so the "odds" favour them. But, of course, the Opposition must fight to uncover the mischief that was wrought.
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Of course with the benefit of hindsight, NASA is fair game for those who never let an opportunity like this pass them, however, I am very proud of NASA because they put together a coalition that reflected this country, gathered private resources and dared to go against an entrenched incumbent African government ran by thugs. The final chapter of their effort is not going to be written today or tomorrow but later on. Meanwhile Kenyans can decide to give in to the thugs or keep fighting for what they believe to be right. That decision will be made at individual levels. Some will become even more cynical and apolitical but others will fight on. That's the nature of the beast.
As expected, a circus, on which I actually have little to say. The little is as follows.
Has there been some mischief in the conduct of these elections? I'm sure of it; otherwise it would not be Kenyan Elections. Just how much is the question. Presumably the court cases will sort out some things. But did the Opposition really have a strong chance of winning? Prior to the elections, I made various comments that were vigorously opposed, denied, etc., by people who saw only what they wanted to see. Many of those comments were about the Opposition's preparation, which they should have started right after the 2013 elections. Here is a summary from a couple of months ago:
My thoughts on these elections were that for the Opposition to win they would have to:
(a) ensure that their supporters---whether categorized by "tribe" or by "issues"---registered in massive numbers;
(b) do a better job on turnout than they did in 2013;
(c) the combination of (a) and (b) sufficient to ensure a "rig-proof" majority.
I wrote quite a bit on (a), and you, Omollo, and I exchanged views on the same. I'm not sure that they did (a), but I haven't seen the official numbers, so I can't comment any further. I don't know what the strategy and situation are with regard to (b), but I hope it does not revolve on the assumption (proven wrong in the past) that huge crowds at rallies mean so many votes in the bag.
I have no great expertise in politics, but after the last elections, I did a "project-management exercise" on how the Opposition might go about winning the next elections---what they would have to do, when it have to be done, who would do what, where, plans for contingencies for missed deadlines and "non-deliverables", when to start (right after the last elections!), etc. I have seen little of that. Yes, mine was an "amateur project plan", but still.
http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=4567.msg32878#msg32878
To the future:
Regardless of how much mischief gets discovered, it is most likely that Jubilee will remain in power. (Even with court cases, this is Kenya, and judges too are mindful of power.) Taking a long-term view, that is not necessarily bad: Kenyans get serious about change only when the pain is sufficiently high, and another five years of Jubilee might just be what the doctor ordered. In that context, even Sonko will be "good" for Nairobi.
For the other positions, all sorts of thieves and scoundrels have been voted into office. By this time next year, Kenyans will be complaining: "Thieves and scoundrels, the entire lot! We'll throw them out at the next elections!". And so on it goes, as usual.
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Kichwa wrote:
Of course with the benefit of hindsight, NASA is fair game
I am not engaged in "hindsight analysis". Those are views that I wrote well before the elections and are consistent with views I had been expressing here all along; Nipate has a search facility, if you care to use it. All I have done is put them up again.
Of course, your response is not entirely unexpected. You have had threads such as "This election may shock everyone", and you put up a very strong disagreement when I suggested that you were wrong (and nobody would be shocked, etc.).
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Moon Ki, we saw your views but they were known to everyone and are not the reason why we are here today. We are here today because of the nature of the ruthless beast we are dealing with. We are not going to get out of this quagmire if most Kenyans give up and join the sidelines as audience and neutral commentators. Thank god there are enough Kenyans to continue with the struggle for total liberation. Go ahead and call them naïve.
Omollo:
On the "hostile circumstances", my views, expressed here over a long period and summarized above, were that there was nevertheless a great deal that the Opposition could have and should have done (if they wanted victory), and I saw little of it in the 4+ years since 2013.
On Uhuru and Jubilee holding onto power, by whatever means, this Kenya, so the "odds" favour them. But, of course, the Opposition must fight to uncover the mischief that was wrought.
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Accept the fact that dynamic duo ran the most serious campaign n stayed on message.
I thought MOAS was the thing. Predictable even long before campaigns....lol! Do you think if tbe opposition had ran a serious campaign and stayed on message they would have beaten your MOAS? Cant have it both ways Pundit...so your demands dont make sense in light of your claims over the past year :D
I don't think campaigns are inconsistent with MOAS
Politicians are going to ride on tribe whether they like it or not, but before they ride on that, they must be reasonably prominent. Prominence is where campaigns come in. They buy and maintain your prominence. Shebesh for instance went out of sight and that's where she lost her prominence. No amount of campaigning would save her
You think the President and Deputy need campaigns to acquire or maintain prominence? Especially in their tribes? Lol c'mon vooke. They couldnt lose prominence if they paid to while holding those positions. Besides, MOAS is based on people who are already leaders. So unless a President/DPORK could realistically stand a chance of losing it to a nobody from their own tribe, campaigns have zero to do with it. The rest comes from gaining the allegiance of tribal and subtribal leaders. Thats MOAS. Campaigns assume you can go directly to the people...the thought! :D
My argument against what pundit is demanding is that he wants to CREDIT the result to campaign and messaging and not MOAS....which is so predictable he can tell you what the result will be next election. :D
Of course, something to excite voters to turn out. That's where campaigning in their strongholds come in...no-brainer. MOAS models turnout.
I don't for a second think Uhuru felt threatened by Baba in Limuru/Kiambu, but he knows apathy in his turf can be deadly.
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I agree with you vooke, I just disagree that what youre describing is MOAS. As an example, turnout was predicated on 2013 trends, one of Robina's disputes was precisely the failure to factor in different GOTV factors that may change turnout from time to time. The assumption was that it would hold based on the same pairing remaining. So I'm not sayin you are wrong about how things work in our elections, it just doesnt align with arguments Ive seen made by our resident Pundit ad infinitum. :D
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The colonialists made us believe we are inferior to them intellectually but they used force to make sure the prophesy was fulfilled. MOAS or tyranny of numbers cannot work on their own if not enforced by stealing votes from registration all the way to counting the votes. If MOAS was true then Msando and the young lady did not have to die such a brutal death.
I agree with you vooke, I just disagree that what youre describing is MOAS. As an example, turnout was predicated on 2013 trends, one of Robina's disputes was precisely the failure to factor in different GOTV factors that change from time to time. So Im not sayinf you are wrong, but what you say DOESNT align with arguments Ive seen made by our resident Pundit ad nauseum. :D
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MoonKi before you go away and make final comments I'd really like to know your view on the Form 34A debacle. Here is a case where IEBC has announced results on its website and is well on its way to declaring a winner. Then we are being informed not all form34As are in. In fact it seems they are still being signed. Do you remember the thread on the court case precisely tackling the issue of ROs and the role of Chebukati in Bomas? We thought it was wise of the courts to make the ROs results count and not Chebukati's gymnastics at Bomas. Now results are being declared without forms 34A. What is your final feeling on this? Is IEBC not working backwards instead? What is this indicative of?
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I agree with you vooke, I just disagree that what youre describing is MOAS. As an example, turnout was predicated on 2013 trends, one of Robina's disputes was precisely the failure to factor in different GOTV factors that may change turnout from time to time. The assumption was that it would hold based on the same pairing remaining. So I'm not sayin you are wrong about how things work in our elections, it just doesnt align with arguments Ive seen made by our resident Pundit ad infinitum. :D
How's what I'm describing different from MOAS, or rather,what's your understanding of MOAS?
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The colonialists made us believe we are inferior to them intellectually but they used force to make sure the prophesy was fulfilled. MOAS or tyranny of numbers cannot work on their own if not enforced by stealing votes from registration all the way to counting the votes. If MOAS was true then Msando and the young lady did not have to die such a brutal death.
I agree with you vooke, I just disagree that what youre describing is MOAS. As an example, turnout was predicated on 2013 trends, one of Robina's disputes was precisely the failure to factor in different GOTV factors that change from time to time. So Im not sayinf you are wrong, but what you say DOESNT align with arguments Ive seen made by our resident Pundit ad nauseum. :D
One can equallly and quite validly atate that MOAS is precisely why Msando had to go; the only way to beat RVGEMA juggernaut is by stealing
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MoonKi before you go away and make final comments I'd really like to know your view on the Form 34A debacle. Here is a case where IEBC has announced results on its website and is well on its way to declaring a winner. Then we are being informed not all form34As are in. In fact it seems they are still being signed. Do you remember the thread on the court case precisely tackling the issue of ROs and the role of Chebukati in Bomas? We thought it was wise of the courts to make the ROs results count and not Chebukati's gymnastics at Bomas. Now results are being declared without forms 34A. What is your final feeling on this? Is IEBC not working backwards instead? What is this indicative of?
I started to write a long response but then decided to "cross it out". Instead, I will focus on a little (true) story.
Little (True) Story: I have heard of or read from many Kenyans, at all levels, complaining endlessly---and quite rightly too---about the pervasive corruption in our country. Raila and his buddies have made endless noises about it. Even H.E. Uhuru has not been left out: he has, in public, wrung his hands and exclaimed "Too much! But, ngai!, nitafanya nini?". Now, I remember looking at photos from an "anti-corruption demonstration" last year---smack in the middle of yet another huge scandal---and counting only about 30 people. And something like half of that "crowd" consisted Boniface Mwangi and other NGO types on their day-job. End of Little (True) Story.
Getting back to your "request": Has there been some mischief in these elections? It's Kenya; I'd be astonished if there wasn't. Has the IEBC been involved? Quite possible. But here's a question for you:
What are the signs out there that Kenyans really give a f**k about this Form 34A or, indeed, anything that they see as problematic in the tallying process, or a lack of transparency and integrity, or ... whatever?
Kichwa writes of a total-liberation struggle against a ruthless beast. I am an upright citizen, so any struggle for total liberation will always have my full support. And especially so when it's against a ruthless beast. Sadly, however, nobody in Kenya is engaged in anything of the sort. Kenya is a country that is slowly going to the dogs, with the "next generation" (a.k.a the "youth") mostly preoccupied with "hustling" (the males) or being "sponsored" (the females). Most of the rest appear to be no more than clueless, tribal sheeple. That, by the way, is a partial explanation for the support that the "ruthless beast" has from millions and millions. (I know my compatriots quite well, so I don't put much stock in claims, however noble or well-intentioned, that "Kenyans are better than that", "Kenyans really care about the issues", ...)
"This too shall pass" or "Kazi iendelee". Your pick. When Kenyans get ready, they will be ready. Nothing to do with Form 123-ABC.
A final word or two:
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Moon Ki, I think I have always been in agreement with your diagnosis of what ails Kenya. What I have not been able to discern is your prescription. As for me, I think you have to keep on fighting the beast until one day it exposes its soft underbelly. Giving up is not an option for some of us.
MoonKi before you go away and make final comments I'd really like to know your view on the Form 34A debacle. Here is a case where IEBC has announced results on its website and is well on its way to declaring a winner. Then we are being informed not all form34As are in. In fact it seems they are still being signed. Do you remember the thread on the court case precisely tackling the issue of ROs and the role of Chebukati in Bomas? We thought it was wise of the courts to make the ROs results count and not Chebukati's gymnastics at Bomas. Now results are being declared without forms 34A. What is your final feeling on this? Is IEBC not working backwards instead? What is this indicative of?
I started to write a long response but then decided to "cross it out". Instead, I will tell you a little (true) story.
Little (true) story: I have heard of or read from many Kenyans, at all levels, complaining endlessly---and quite rightly too---about the pervasive corruption in our country. Raila and his buddies have made endless noises about it. Even H.E. Uhuru has not been left out: he has, in public, wrung his hands and exclaimed "Too much! But, ngai!, nitafanya nini?". Now, I remember looking at photos from an "anti-corruption demonstration" last year---smack in the middle of yet another huge scandal---and counting only about 30 people. And something like half of that "crowd" consisted Boniface Mwangi and other NGO types on their day-job. End of Little (true) story.
Getting back to your "request": Has there been some mischief in these elections? It's Kenya; I'd be astonished if there wasn't. Has the IEBC been involved? Quite possible. But here's a question for you:
What are the signs out there that Kenyans really give a f**k about this Form 34A or, indeed, anything that they see as problematic in the tallying process, or a lack of transparency and integrity, or ... whatever?
Kichwa writes of a total-liberation struggle against a ruthless beast. I am an upright citizen, so any struggle for total liberation will always have my full support. And especially so when it's against a ruthless beast. Sadly, however, nobody in Kenya is engaged in anything of the sort. Kenya is a country that is slowly going to the dogs, with the "next generation" (a.k.a the "youth") mostly preoccupied with "hustling" (the males) or being "sponsored" (the females). Most of the rest appear to be no more that clueless, tribal sheeple. That, by the way, is a partial explanation for the support that the "ruthless beast" has from millions and millions.
"This too shall pass" or "Kazi iendelee". Your pick. When Kenyans get ready, they will be ready. Nothing to do with Form 123-ABC.
A final word or two:
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Moon Ki, I think I have always been in agreement with your diagnosis of what ails Kenya. What I have not been able to discern is your prescription. As for me, I think you have to keep on fighting the beast until one day it exposes its soft underbelly. Giving up is not an option for some of us.
We could discuss that, and I'd be happy to do so---after the present dust has settled down and with a long-term view---but, first, what can we learn from Little (True) Stories? To my mind, therein lies the key.
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Moon Ki, I think I have always been in agreement with your diagnosis of what ails Kenya. What I have not been able to discern is your prescription. As for me, I think you have to keep on fighting the beast until one day it exposes its soft underbelly. Giving up is not an option for some of us.
We could discuss that, and I'd be happy to do so---after the present dust has settled down and with a long-term view---but, first, what can we learn from Little (True) Stories? To my mind, therein lies the key. Horse-to-water and that sort of thing ...
Oh, I've just been looking at Uncle Sam's projections on "food security" in Kenya. (I'd like to believe that what's in the belly is something that most people take seriously.) Things look grim heading into 2018, but do the natives show it? "Our Man for the Eating Position!" and then ... "International community, saidia please." (I will later, in early 2018, quote this "post". In the meantime, all to enjoy SGR, laptops-for-toddlers, M-Akiba, and what-not.)
Prescription? Perhaps Evolution?
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I have heard something like that from a few folks. They say, "step aside and wait until wanjiku cannot take it anymore. I do not know about that but it ought to be Plan D or when all fails.
Moon Ki, I think I have always been in agreement with your diagnosis of what ails Kenya. What I have not been able to discern is your prescription. As for me, I think you have to keep on fighting the beast until one day it exposes its soft underbelly. Giving up is not an option for some of us.
We could discuss that, and I'd be happy to do so---after the present dust has settled down and with a long-term view---but, first, what can we learn from Little (True) Stories? To my mind, therein lies the key.
Oh, I've just been looking at Uncle Sam's projections on "food security" in Kenya. (I'd like to believe that what's in the belly is something that most people take seriously.) Things look grim heading into 2018, but do the natives show it? "Our Man for the Eating Position!" and then ... "International community, siadia please." (I will later, in early 2018, quote this "post". In the meantime, all to enjoy SGR, M-Akiba, and what-not.)
Prescription? Perhaps Evolution?
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I got told off the other day when I asked a friend what the use of lining up for 4 hours when we know nothing will change.
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I agree with your friend. MOAS and Tyranny of numbers are designed to maintain status quo. They are the enemies of democracy because people start to think of change through other means.
I got told off the other day when I asked a friend what the use of lining up for 4 hours when we know nothing will change.
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I have heard something like that from a few folks. They say, "step aside and wait until wanjiku cannot take it anymore. I do not know about that but it ought to be Plan D or when all fails.
And the "few folks" have a point: history. Plans B, C and D---whether it's about food or anything else--are always left to the wazungus and other "do-good" foreigners. (Are Kenyans right now really thinking about how they will feed themselves next year?)
Fortunately for us, the wazungus et. al. are always keen to have at least one "success story" on the "Dark Continent"---some of their citizens even demand to know where their hard-earned is going---and we Kenyans have always been a good candidate for that. Island in an ocean of mindless mayhem and so forth. We've been dining out on that for a very long time, and we can still count on it ... must do something in Africa? Ah, Kenya, the old reliable. We then wank about how great we are etc.
"Wanjiku": stellar exemplar of clueless, tribal sheepishness; proven sucker for punishment; or just a silly myth. So, no "Arab Spring" stuff to worry about South Of The Border.
Uhuru and his Singh sidekick had something else in mind with their "accept and move on", but, in the broader scheme of things, it was actually excellent advice: Kenyans are always being robbed by their "leaders", have all sorts of sh*t piled on their heads, and so on. Why not just "accept", as indeed they do, until there is a ready response to "mta do?".
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It is not we don't aspire for which has the basics but heck even US is on Obamacare details! Kivutha already reelected has delivered and Sonko(my choice) have promised universal health cover . Msidhani ati makanga hawana akili.
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It is not we don't aspire for which has the basics but heck even US is on Obamacare details! Kivutha already reelected has delivered and Sonko(my choice) have promised universal health cover . Msidhani ati makanga hawana akili.
Parsing that one--even the bit that appears to be in English---was not easy. The interpretation took much more time. But I think I got the general idea.
Comparisons with the USA, eh? Interesting. Tempting, but too easy; I'll skip it.
I'm sure Nairobians will greatly benefit from Sonko's "universal health cover". Kindly "post" the details here when they are available.
Makanga. No comment necessary, I think.
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I agree with your friend. MOAS and Tyranny of numbers are designed to maintain status quo. They are the enemies of democracy because people start to think of change through other means.
I got told off the other day when I asked a friend what the use of lining up for 4 hours when we know nothing will change.
You got this wrong Kichwa. The person was in line to vote for dynamic duo. Not because they would deliver but to fulfill God's Will and to stop an evil man Raila for unleashing his Antichrist agenda. I have crazy friend you may say but sometimes friends choose you. I have another jobless acquaintance a very caring individual but cannot connect her unemployment to bad governance to her politics is politics and it just that then there is life out of it.
Everyone in Kenya cops out. On tribalism we point fingers at politicians as if these politicians are manufactured robots and not products of our own upbringing. When we kill we blame politicians for incitement. There is a copout for everything.. When I pressed this friend on matters pointing contradictions on her own line of think she resulted now to quote "God Will"again insinuating that NASA was not going to win because God had ordained so.. Now with Flawed result it is God has saved us from a lunatic..
We as a people need to have a national dialogue on what we have done to each other. We need to atone. I need to atone for my sometimes outbursts against Kalenjins. It out of hate and hurt that I do so.
You see moonki is thinking there is a day wanjiku will wakeup or face the music. The day is now and here. Wanjiku is scared shit of her own shadow. She ran away to the countryside to flee from her own madness and mayhem. Those men, women, children taking buses up country were running away from their own monster. From their own shadows. it is tragic when you think about.You see hate has the biggest buyers remorse right now NASA and jubilee supporters are wondering how did we get into this hate. How do we end it so that I can smile at Mama Otieno again without having doubts she gonna smile back.
I will share my solution when I gather my thoughts. One of the things we need to do is look for national values that everyone agree are important and then we promote the hella out of these values.
You see moi had a good idea of promoting peace love and unity for a while we agreed with him and made peace and unity a cornerstone of our nation building. May be now we can try integrity and justice. Once there is integrity everything falls in place.
As I told my Kenya coworker to expect clean elections from Kenya society is to expect miracles. Right now our number one sport is corruption so how do you expect to build a 58 billion system based on integrity. the who electoral process is built on quicksand. It didn't take long before our expensive project sunk.
IEBC Chebukati and chiloba are not miracle workers nor are they there to fix a sick rotten society. I would say to the political elite take your electoral shit elsewhere. Dr mutunga said shit like petitions belong in shit rooms coz no decent human should deal with that bile of shit. Chiloba and chebukati should announce these results and tell the political class to go fuck a donkey somewhere away from him
Kichwa I know as Luo you all you want is for process to be fair and free. You want vindication. Pyschologically it must be very difficult to be a Luo in Kenya. Being victimized always and mocked must take a toll. My brother I sympathize with your situation and I hope I could right all the wrongs done to your people. Right now we need to accept that this thing is hopeless continue to work on each till we one day we unite as a people to pursue the greater good in the interest of humanity.
NASA has millions and a diverse support base that alone should make everyone proud.
The problem is that with a system like Kenya it can turn the most humble and meek men like Kalonzo to monsters. You can see he is frustrated beyond measure. he is at the breaking point.
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It is not we don't aspire for which has the basics but heck even US is on Obamacare details! Kivutha already reelected has delivered and Sonko(my choice) have promised universal health cover . Msidhani ati makanga hawana akili.
The irony......I don't know whether to laugh or cry as I currently enjoy my obamacare. Anyway, makanga wamenena. :D Lets wait another five years (is it 5 or 4, I dont even care to know anymore) and see, now that even Kenyan doctors are colluding with Indian doctors to cone sick Kenyans plagued with cancer........food scarcity, .....education, ...infant mortality.... jobs....which basics were you taking about again?
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Globalcitizen. Got you. I do not think we have fully internalized the connection between government policy and our lives. This is why Waiguru stole money from government and was just given mandate by the people to run their county government. It has nothing to do with tribalism. Its just that we see politics the way we see sports teams. Our lives do not change when our sports teams win or lose and that's how we see politics in Kenya. However politics do change lives. Kenya is a politicians paradise because all people care about is whether one's team is in power or not-nothing else.
Last but not least, I do not believe my luoness is a burden to me just because once again Raila was rigged out. Tomorrow most rabid ouruto supporters will not notice any change in their lives other than the high one gets when your sports team win then you wait for the next season and in between you brag about your team. You would wish politics would mean more than that.
I agree with your friend. MOAS and Tyranny of numbers are designed to maintain status quo. They are the enemies of democracy because people start to think of change through other means.
I got told off the other day when I asked a friend what the use of lining up for 4 hours when we know nothing will change.
You got this wrong Kichwa. The person was in line to vote for dynamic duo. Not because they would deliver but to fulfill God's Will and to stop an evil man Raila for unleashing his Antichrist agenda. I have crazy friend you may say but sometimes friends choose you. I have another jobless acquaintance a very caring individual but cannot connect her unemployment to bad governance to her politics is politics and it just that then there is life out of it.
Everyone in Kenya cops out. On tribalism we point fingers at politicians as if these politicians are manufactured robots and not products of our own upbringing. When we kill we blame politicians for incitement. There is a copout for everything.. When I pressed this friend on matters pointing contradictions on her own line of think she resulted now to quote "God Will"again insinuating that NASA was not going to win because God had ordained so.. Now with Flawed result it is God has saved us from a lunatic..
We as a people need to have a national dialogue on what we have done to each other. We need to atone. I need to atone for my sometimes outbursts against Kalenjins. It out of hate and hurt that I do so.
You see moonki is thinking there is a day wanjiku will wakeup or face the music. The day is now and here. Wanjiku is scared shit of her own shadow. She ran away to the countryside to flee from her own madness and mayhem. Those men, women, children taking buses up country were running away from their own monster. From their own shadows. it is tragic when you think about.You see hate has the biggest buyers remorse right now NASA and jubilee supporters are wondering how did we get into this hate. How do we end it so that I can smile at Mama Otieno again without having doubts she gonna smile back.
I will share my solution when I gather my thoughts. One of the things we need to do is look for national values that everyone agree are important and then we promote the hella out of these values.
You see moi had a good idea of promoting peace love and unity for a while we agreed with him and made peace and unity a cornerstone of our nation building. May be now we can try integrity and justice. Once there is integrity everything falls in place.
As I told my Kenya coworker to expect clean elections from Kenya society is to expect miracles. Right now our number one sport is corruption so how do you expect to build a 58 billion system based on integrity. the who electoral process is built on quicksand. It didn't take long before our expensive project sunk.
IEBC Chebukati and chiloba are not miracle workers nor are they there to fix a sick rotten society. I would say to the political elite take your electoral shit elsewhere. Dr mutunga said shit like petitions belong in shit rooms coz no decent human should deal with that bile of shit. Chiloba and chebukati should announce these results and tell the political class to go fuck a donkey somewhere away from him
Kichwa I know as Luo you all you want is for process to be fair and free. You want vindication. Pyschologically it must be very difficult to be a Luo in Kenya. Being victimized always and mocked must take a toll. My brother I sympathize with your situation and I hope I could right all the wrongs done to your people. Right now we need to accept that this thing is hopeless continue to work on each till we one day we unite as a people to pursue the greater good in the interest of humanity.
NASA has millions and a diverse support base that alone should make everyone proud.
The problem is that with a system like Kenya it can turn the most humble and meek men like Kalonzo to monsters. You can see he is frustrated beyond measure. he is at the breaking point.
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Global, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for that.
Kichwa, you nailed it. Politics is our national sport. Its not the way we chose to improve our living conditions, or end poverty, famine, deaths from simple and easily treatable conditions.
Mya88, we missed you! Glad to see you back. :)
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Me, I think that unfair as it is, the best Raila can do for us now is leave politics. The propaganda done to demonize him in a segment of our population is effective. He is to them how Americans see Putin. This only helps obscure the discussion of issues.
If the big " demon" is no longer in the picture, perhaps people may have a chance to scrutinize what their leaders are actually saying and doing as it affects them. It also doesnt help that we have sooo many uneducated folk who simply dont have the means to inform themselves any better.
I say this with a lot of doubt myself because I saw how the demonization project started in Kibaki's first term and continued having made worse be the 2007 PEV. I am afraid that anyone who emerges who will seem to be a genuine threat to the "mafia" will face the same treatment. And why not? It has proved very effective. So I'm just propping my hope up, its all I can do at the moment.
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MoonKi thanks for the response. Of all the high sounding academic solutions intellectuals may offer, what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans now is to reject fraudulent election results and government by thievery. Can you imagine tgat ten years after 2007 the government can do the same thing? The obsession with stopping Raila at all costs has cost Kenya so much. It is good to make high sounding policy strategies but what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans is the rejection of fraudulent elections. It is a very costly affair but probably cheaper than living with thievery for another five years. It means the hope Kenyans have is when God touches the hearts of the main thieves in power. This is possible.
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I heard Kirinyaga voted Waiguru after she promised she won't steal from them.
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Your real God is in trouble I see and you want to she'd blood.Eti reject result.How?
MoonKi thanks for the response. Of all the high sounding academic solutions intellectuals may offer, what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans now is to reject fraudulent election results and government by thievery. Can you imagine tgat ten years after 2007 the government can do the same thing? The obsession with stopping Raila at all costs has cost Kenya so much. It is good to make high sounding policy strategies but what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans is the rejection of fraudulent elections. It is a very costly affair but probably cheaper than living with thievery for another five years. It means the hope Kenyans have is when God touches the hearts of the main thieves in power. This is possible.
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You rejected NASA campaigns, statistical projections, opinion polls and even their anti-rigging plans. Then you brought apartheid regime green marias and violent police to the streets after what happened at Bomas. And you dare call others violent? You think you are the only one who has the capacity to reject?
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Me, I think that unfair as it is, the best Raila can do for us now is leave politics. The propaganda done to demonize him in a segment of our population is effective. He is to them how Americans see Putin. This only helps obscure the discussion of issues.
If the big " demon" is no longer in the picture, perhaps people may have a chance to scrutinize what their leaders are actually saying and doing as it affects them. It also doesnt help that we have sooo many uneducated folk who simply dont have the means to inform themselves any better.
I say this with a lot of doubt myself because I saw how the demonization project started in Kibaki's first term and continued having made worse be the 2007 PEV. I am afraid that anyone who emerges who will seem to be a genuine threat to the "mafia" will face the same treatment. And why not? It has proved very effective. So I'm just propping my hope up, its all I can do at the moment.
Kabebe thanks, noted above. Missed you too.
I beg to differ abit, the other sides view Raila the way Democrats view trump or whoever the Republican candidate is at any given time, only problem is like you later stated......we have uneducated folks being fed fodder by a few elites who care nothing about the country. Raila going away will not bring change in Kenya...infact we need a Raila or anyone else with enough balls to keep the current government in check so we dont end up like other nations where the mwananchi really cannot speak about the government. The mafia will stay in power until the day hunger hits so bad kenyans get fed up. I dont think we are there yet. Nations like Ghana have matured a bit and are not as obsessed about tribe as we are. Me personally I dont care who governs, as long as they bring us back to a level we once were. Right now Kenya is like a shadow of its former self.
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MoonKi thanks for the response. Of all the high sounding academic solutions intellectuals may offer, what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans now is to reject fraudulent election results and government by thievery. Can you imagine tgat ten years after 2007 the government can do the same thing? The obsession with stopping Raila at all costs has cost Kenya so much. It is good to make high sounding policy strategies but what is in the hands of ordinary Kenyans is the rejection of fraudulent elections. It is a very costly affair but probably cheaper than living with thievery for another five years. It means the hope Kenyans have is when God touches the hearts of the main thieves in power. This is possible.
No problem, ndugu/dada. By the way, the half-arsed "anti-corruption demonstration" that I mentioned was in Nairobi, a city of millions ... during "lunch break", in a place full of idlers. So, what gets the makanga (and their akili) to show up in droves? Not the lack of proper government services (for which taxes are paid), or the prices of anything, or ... or the fact they are generally having a rough life of it. This should give you some idea of what's considered what's-what:
(Just what it is that they think they will get to do, or even just see, is far from clear.)
At the end of the day, the "ordinary Kenyans" will indeed have to make their own decisions. Whenever they are ready. Right now they are getting rear-end tarimbo and applauding the act.
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Global, I agree with you 100%. Thanks for that.
Kichwa, you nailed it. Politics is our national sport. Its not the way we chose to improve our living conditions, or end poverty, famine, deaths from simple and easily treatable conditions.
Mya88, we missed you! Glad to see you back. :)
Thank for taking time to read. I do hope we will overcome this setback one day if not us someone else will
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I commend NASA for all the court cases it has brought including the supreme court case because it has done a better job of educating the public than IEBC & the jubilee government on the SPIRIT of our electoral process.
But thats the extent of my kudos to NASA,they clearly are in some stage of grief of their own making...Jubilee will have a very weak opposition in parliament and we are headed (by choice) the Turkey way...it might be a blessing in disguise & hopefully NASA & Raila regroup with the stark reality facing them & become a more effective opposition.
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And how does this story of chebukati's attempted "suicide" fit in? Maybe like his fake electoral tally we are being prepared for his eventual "suicide". Msando's mass may have done a number on him too. Maybe this is why Akombe has legged it back to the US, before she herself got "suicided".