Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on June 27, 2017, 07:07:01 PM
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Raila yet to arrive...
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Sossion ako ndaani. Teachers wako ndani pia.
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He is gone to NASA alone - Jubilee signed a CBA that is already being implemented - denying Sosion any platform to campaign on.
Sossion ako ndaani. Teachers wako ndani pia.
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Pretty underwhelming. This country should be thankful for the dynamic duo. The haggard looking principals present an abstract manifesto that is notable for paucity of figures,milestones and numbers.
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I can understand that you must criticize.
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Pundit is in full panic mode. He is desparately looking for anything to restore his confidence. It all started with the court of Appeals ruling. Mike Tyson used to say that everyone has a plan until they are hit.
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Pundit is in full panic mode. He is desparately looking for anything to restore his confidence. It all started with the court of Appeals ruling. Mike Tyson used to say that everyone has a plan until they are hit.
Uhuru has figured out that its over.
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Poor Baghdad bob. ..ujeuri mtupu.
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The reports they are getting from NCIS must be pretty bad. They are dishing out government money in salaries, IDP compensation and title deeds like candy. unfortunately there is not too much money left after the looting spree which went on for the last 4.5 years.
Pundit is in full panic mode. He is desparately looking for anything to restore his confidence. It all started with the court of Appeals ruling. Mike Tyson used to say that everyone has a plan until they are hit.
Uhuru has figured out that its over.
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You cannot compare NASA pathetic manifesto with Jubilee's - factual, well thought and concrete plan with figures, numbers, milestones that are measurable.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Complete-Jubilee-Manifesto/1056-3988596-gvbxlyz/index.html
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What's the major difference between the two manifestos? The proposal for stipends for poor elderly people should be accompanied by a proposal to encourage retirement savings. Offer younger people tax free investment funds that they can even borrow from and can cash in when they retire. Besides its just prudent to wean people off handouts, we have people who don't plan for their retirement and now expect government to take care of them.
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Reforming NSSF would go along way in handling that.
What's the major difference between the two manifestos? The proposal for stipends for poor elderly people should be accompanied by a proposal to encourage retirement savings. Offer younger people tax free investment funds that they can even borrow from and can cash in when they retire. Besides its just prudent to wean people off handouts, we have people who don't plan for their retirement and now expect government to take care of them.
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Welfare is a pissing contest. FPE brought in alot of degradation to education quality with lots of parents are forced to go private. We really need to rethink especially with "new" FSE idea - how to maintain/improve quality. You can't just budget for tuition waiver, facilities? regulations? tutors? Expanding scale without quality penalty... that's where the tyre meets the road.
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The problem with lower education is that the government has no choice but to educate everyone. You cannot choose between quality and free education. The government must provide both-free quality education.
Welfare is a pissing contest. FPE brought in alot of degradation to education quality with lots of parents are forced to go private. We really need to rethink especially with "new" FSE idea - how to maintain/improve quality. You can't just budget for tuition waiver, facilities? regulations? tutors? Expanding scale without quality penalty... that's where the tyre meets the road.
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That is where innovative thinking and planning come in, which we have not done, before talking FSE or free tertiaries. Look at the serious laptop/digital program fumbling. We need to get master FPE... and use the lessons on FSE.
The problem with lower education is that the government has no choice but to educate everyone. You cannot choose between quality and free education. The government must provide both-free quality education.
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In FSE, I assume the parents are paying the boarding fee's.
That is where innovative thinking and planning come in, which we have not done, before talking FSE or free tertiaries. Look at the serious laptop/digital program fumbling. We need to get master FPE... and use the lessons on FSE.
The problem with lower education is that the government has no choice but to educate everyone. You cannot choose between quality and free education. The government must provide both-free quality education.
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NASA's main points are poorly thought out. Although I view manifesto as pure classifieds, even with Ndii heading their efforts, this is not even populism. Check
.hybrid system - change constitution... what for? It passed by 68%, is bare 7yo and Raila sponsored it. Who even wants old hybrid system?? It's the UK system we had prior and replaced with US.
.withdraw KDF from Amisom - why? So Al Shaabab can take over like Islamic Courts? Which Kenyans have even asked for this?
.control public debt, grow GDP 7-10% - sketchy details. Borrowing for infraprojects is a big debate but am skeptical of cynics without an alternative.
.bla bla - sketchy stuff. They will focus on informal sector - jua kali and smallholder agriculture... No Galanas and formalizing sectors for them.
Very Ndii-inspired. Not inspiring.
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Precisely. Poorly prepared. Fuzzy. Ndiish. Jubilee have presented one of the most well-thought manifesto a kenya party has - down to details - including the achievement - where we stand - and we are going - and they are realistic, workable and achievable. NASA are desperate to win but Jubilee knows they'll win - and therefore they cannot just write up stuff- they've tasked each CS to come up with achievable well thought out plans.
NASA's main points are poorly thought out. Although I view manifesto as pure classifieds, even with Ndii heading their efforts, this is not even populism. Check
.hybrid system - change constitution... what for? It NASA's main points are poorly thought out. Although I view manifesto as pure classifieds, even with Ndii heading their efforts, this is not even populism. Check
.hybrid system - change constitution... what for? It passed by 68%, is bare 7yo and Raila sponsored it. Who even wants old hybrid system?? It's the UK system we had prior and replaced with US.
.withdraw KDF from Amisom - why? So Al Shaabab can take over like Islamic Courts? Which Kenyans have even asked for this?
.control public debt, grow GDP 7-10% - sketchy details. Borrowing for infraprojects is a big debate but am skeptical of cynics without an alternative.
.bla bla - sketchy stuff. They will focus on informal sector - jua kali and smallholder agriculture... No Galanas and formalizing sectors for them.
Very Ndii-inspired. Not inspiring.
by 68%, is bare 7yo and Raila sponsored it. Who even wants old hybrid system?? It's the UK system we had prior and replaced with US.
.withdraw KDF from Amisom - why? So Al Shaabab can take over like Islamic Courts? Which Kenyans have even asked for this?
.control public debt, grow GDP 7-10% - sketchy details. Borrowing for infraprojects is a big debate but am skeptical of cynics without an alternative.
.bla bla - sketchy stuff. They will focus on informal sector - jua kali and smallholder agriculture... No Galanas and formalizing sectors for them.
Very Ndii-inspired. Not inspiring.
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Pundit, I do not know why you stress too much over these manifestos. Even in the so called advanced Democracy like the US, nobody remembers the political party platforms after the conventions. Who cares. Even by your own standards, the MOAS is the only thing that should matter. Other than the laptop computers that stuck with me, I do not remember the Jubilee manifesto of 2013. Now they are back with a new one which will go to dust as soon as the elections are over. Its a good thing to do but really?
Precisely. Poorly prepared. Fuzzy. Ndiish. Jubilee have presented one of the most well-thought manifesto a kenya party has - down to details - including the achievement - where we stand - and we are going - and they are realistic, workable and achievable. NASA are desperate to win but Jubilee knows they'll win - and therefore they cannot just write up stuff- they've tasked each CS to come up with achievable well thought out plans.
NASA's main points are poorly thought out. Although I view manifesto as pure classifieds, even with Ndii heading their efforts, this is not even populism. Check
.hybrid system - change constitution... what for? It NASA's main points are poorly thought out. Although I view manifesto as pure classifieds, even with Ndii heading their efforts, this is not even populism. Check
.hybrid system - change constitution... what for? It passed by 68%, is bare 7yo and Raila sponsored it. Who even wants old hybrid system?? It's the UK system we had prior and replaced with US.
.withdraw KDF from Amisom - why? So Al Shaabab can take over like Islamic Courts? Which Kenyans have even asked for this?
.control public debt, grow GDP 7-10% - sketchy details. Borrowing for infraprojects is a big debate but am skeptical of cynics without an alternative.
.bla bla - sketchy stuff. They will focus on informal sector - jua kali and smallholder agriculture... No Galanas and formalizing sectors for them.
Very Ndii-inspired. Not inspiring.
by 68%, is bare 7yo and Raila sponsored it. Who even wants old hybrid system?? It's the UK system we had prior and replaced with US.
.withdraw KDF from Amisom - why? So Al Shaabab can take over like Islamic Courts? Which Kenyans have even asked for this?
.control public debt, grow GDP 7-10% - sketchy details. Borrowing for infraprojects is a big debate but am skeptical of cynics without an alternative.
.bla bla - sketchy stuff. They will focus on informal sector - jua kali and smallholder agriculture... No Galanas and formalizing sectors for them.
Very Ndii-inspired. Not inspiring.
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Jubilee manifestoes 2013 & -17 are properly aligned. The execution is fair. My disillusionment with our situation is not particular politicians per se, or ideology bankruptcy, rather than the INCAPACITY to deliver us to the Canaan they preach. The camps attempt to sound pragmatic, but with the dismal 20BUSD half-borrowed budget it will take eons to be anything like Turkey or Mexico. Any little drought and folks die. I don't really see it as Uhuru's fault, just our disposition. I want better than we can get
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I am excited because I know Jubilee will win and they are serious about this Manifesto. They would still win without it. But I think they want to go down in history as the most trans-formative regime in Kenya. Sitting before those ICC judges really shocked the hell out of them and they realized they needed to live for something bigger.
I like their business minded approach, their zen-like discipline, their execution is near perfect - that is how to deliver SGR 2yrs ahead of schedule. Unlike you or Kadame I am not big on justice/peace/consitutionalism - I am big on kagame type of reforms - I don't care about historical injustice - but I care if everyone can get be given a titledeed to borrow loan with or sell - I don't care so much about big fish corruption (mega deals) - I care about small time corruption where everyone has to pay 100bob to get gov services - I think Jubilee has focused on those - eliminating red-tape, digitizing the whole shit out of it - and without even doing anything about graft - it disappears and gok collect more revenue now. I don't care about 10B SGR loan (maybe 1B or more of it's is facilitation fee to Wanjigis)..I care that every kenyan will now travel at 700shs to Mombasa on half the time and the same benefits on containners... What is 1Busd compared to a multiplier like that?
In short I care about reforms that really affect me and you. I think Jubilee have the brains. Uhuru is damn brilliant. Ruto is a genius. I think they understand what need to be fixed. You can talk all day about corruption...but if you reduce the amount of time it take for container to get malaba from 18 days to 5 days - using simple measures like forcing banks to operate 24-7 - those are reforms that work.
Obviously you care about democracy or new constitution or historical injustices or truth & reconciliation - frankly I don't give a damn - give every kenyan a tarmac road few meters from their home - give every kenyan electricity - give every kenya rail transport that work - give every kenyan a title deed - give every kenyan water - those are the stuff that matters.
China never had democracy and they grew out of poverty. The same is true for many countries that focused on the the really important things..the bread & butter. The job of GoK is to render gov services..NOT to wrestle with complicated emotional stuff nobody can ever solve...like terrorism or historical injustice or reclaim mau complex...give us more well paid police..give us more security cameras...give us more magistrates and courts...those are stuff that work.
I wish political competition can shift to Jubiliesque kind of issue..and we leave Raila hangovers to the past...and we can start debating how we can say move our road network from 15% tarmac to something like 90% tarmac.... let people compete on how we cancoverage of sewage & sanitation..let talk the numbers there and how much you want to improve them...talk about water, internet/broabband, banking (access is now dealt with - nearly everyone has a bank account now...now it's question cheap credit for everyone)
Pundit, I do not know why you stress too much over these manifestos. Even in the so called advanced Democracy like the US, nobody remembers the political party platforms after the conventions. Who cares. Even by your own standards, the MOAS is the only thing that should matter. Other than the laptop computers that stuck with me, I do not remember the Jubilee manifesto of 2013. Now they are back with a new one which will go to dust as soon as the elections are over. Its a good thing to do but really?
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Big for kisumu(https://scontent.fnbo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/19488520_1084964654971707_8283138986866956677_o.jpg?oh=90f865e6c1e559c3616a82af39eab550&oe=59D2254B)
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I am excited because I know Jubilee will win and they are serious about this Manifesto. They would still win without it. But I think they want to go down in history as the most trans-formative regime in Kenya. Sitting before those ICC judges really shocked the hell out of them and they realized they needed to live for something bigger.
I like their business minded approach, their zen-like discipline, their execution is near perfect - that is how to deliver SGR 2yrs ahead of schedule. Unlike you or Kadame I am not big on justice/peace/consitutionalism - I am big on kagame type of reforms - I don't care about historical injustice - but I care if everyone can get be given a titledeed to borrow loan with or sell - I don't care so much about big fish corruption (mega deals) - I care about small time corruption where everyone has to pay 100bob to get gov services - I think Jubilee has focused on those - eliminating red-tape, digitizing the whole shit out of it - and without even doing anything about graft - it disappears and gok collect more revenue now. I don't care about 10B SGR loan (maybe 1B or more of it's is facilitation fee to Wanjigis)..I care that every kenyan will now travel at 700shs to Mombasa on half the time and the same benefits on containners... What is 1Busd compared to a multiplier like that?
In short I care about reforms that really affect me and you. I think Jubilee have the brains. Uhuru is damn brilliant. Ruto is a genius. I think they understand what need to be fixed. You can talk all day about corruption...but if you reduce the amount of time it take for container to get malaba from 18 days to 5 days - using simple measures like forcing banks to operate 24-7 - those are reforms that work.
Obviously you care about democracy or new constitution or historical injustices or truth & reconciliation - frankly I don't give a damn - give every kenyan a tarmac road few meters from their home - give every kenyan electricity - give every kenya rail transport that work - give every kenyan a title deed - give every kenyan water - those are the stuff that matters.
China never had democracy and they grew out of poverty. The same is true for many countries that focused on the the really important things..the bread & butter. The job of GoK is to render gov services..NOT to wrestle with complicated emotional stuff nobody can ever solve...like terrorism or historical injustice or reclaim mau complex...give us more well paid police..give us more security cameras...give us more magistrates and courts...those are stuff that work.
I wish political competition can shift to Jubiliesque kind of issue..and we leave Raila hangovers to the past...and we can start debating how we can say move our road network from 15% tarmac to something like 90% tarmac.... let people compete on how we cancoverage of sewage & sanitation..let talk the numbers there and how much you want to improve them...talk about water, internet/broabband, banking (access is now dealt with - nearly everyone has a bank account now...now it's question cheap credit for everyone)
I totally agree with this. The foundation is being laid and the coming years look quite rosy. On corruption, bureaucracy is what festers corruption. Removing bureaucracy and digitizing its what will reduce corruption at the mwanainchi level. If we can encourage more productivity in every sector we'll start hitting 10% growth rates.
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Yeap we are nearly at cusp of the leapfrog stage. Country growth is a bit like hockey stick shape. It takes for what seem like forever and it can be frustrating but once you sort out the basics and lay the foundation - then you enter into a growth phase which is irreversible.
When I look at Kenya - I think we are nearly there - off my head I think we now need to focus on 3 things --roads,rails,water & sanitation- we need to fix roads (our % of asphlat road is still embarrassing but looking at 7,000 kms under construction and if we can sustain this (hopefully borrow from Chinese or have US kind of BOT). Electricity (both supply & demand side) on autopilot now, banking (finance & inter mediation) - auto-pilot - small fixes here and there. Telcom & broadban/Fiber - nearly there. Education - nearly there. Security -nearly there. Judiciary nearly there - we need more courts & prisons - at least in every constituency & backlog need to be history. Devolution - done. Land & property rights - nearly there. Gov bureaucracy nearly there. Then we need to slowly formalize our informal economy - in retail & wholesale - we are already second to rsa only - transport is the next - maybe farming.
I'd ask Jubilee to triple efforts to ensure by 2022 - at least 80% of kenyans live 1km from a tarmac road - this is pretty achievable - we just need to double or triple the roads we are building- then focus on water & sanitation - those mega dams should include piping water - then sewage for towns.
After that - we should just sit back & relax as global money rushes to Kenya - we would have dealt with the basic.
I totally agree with this. The foundation is being laid and the coming years look quite rosy. On corruption, bureaucracy is what festers corruption. Removing bureaucracy and digitizing its what will reduce corruption at the mwanainchi level. If we can encourage more productivity in every sector we'll start hitting 10% growth rates.
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What is this nonsense?
KBL / EABL was given 80 acres of prime land in the late 70s for free to set up a plant in Kisumu. They did and operated it for a few years then closed it. They sold off all the prime properties built on the land given to them (and which had been compulsorily acquired at the same time as the molasses plant land which GEMA makes most noise about).
Excuse me if I find this a bit funny and no doubt Kisumu people will find it sickening.
Not more thanj a year ago, EABL stated that it was not economic to revive the Kisumu plant or put up another in Western. The ywould continue to transport beer to western and make use of their depots.
I think they are coming to the rescue of Uthamaki and nothing meaningful will come out of that. Makes me think Uhuru has a trip planned for Kisumu and this is pre-campaign propaganda.
Any wayx, if they do set it up, President Raila Odinga will officially "launch" it.
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KEG beer - made from sorghum - grown in Luo Nyanza - is the reason. Not everything is a conspiracy. EABL owned by Daegeo don't care about local politics. They are here to make money. Kisumu people should embrace this - 110,000 jobs is not something to smear - if not they can set it up in Kericho - around Muhoroni-Kipsitet is now industrial area - with cement, steel, sugar and other companies set up.
What is this nonsense?
KBL / EABL was given 80 acres of prime land in the late 70s for free to set up a plant in Kisumu. They did and operated it for a few years then closed it. They sold off all the prime properties built on the land given to them (and which had been compulsorily acquired at the same time as the molasses plant land which GEMA makes most noise about).
Excuse me if I find this a bit funny and no doubt Kisumu people will find it sickening.
Not more thanj a year ago, EABL stated that it was not economic to revive the Kisumu plant or put up another in Western. The ywould continue to transport beer to western and make use of their depots.
I think they are coming to the rescue of Uthamaki and nothing meaningful will come out of that. Makes me think Uhuru has a trip planned for Kisumu and this is pre-campaign propaganda.
Any wayx, if they do set it up, President Raila Odinga will officially "launch" it.
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What is this nonsense?
KBL / EABL was given 80 acres of prime land in the late 70s for free to set up a plant in Kisumu. They did and operated it for a few years then closed it. They sold off all the prime properties built on the land given to them (and which had been compulsorily acquired at the same time as the molasses plant land which GEMA makes most noise about).
Excuse me if I find this a bit funny and no doubt Kisumu people will find it sickening.
Not more thanj a year ago, EABL stated that it was not economic to revive the Kisumu plant or put up another in Western. The ywould continue to transport beer to western and make use of their depots.
I think they are coming to the rescue of Uthamaki and nothing meaningful will come out of that. Makes me think Uhuru has a trip planned for Kisumu and this is pre-campaign propaganda.
Any wayx, if they do set it up, President Raila Odinga will officially "launch" it.
Seriously!! :D :D :D Do you have to oppose everything even if its good? Just like raila http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/28/uhuru-riding-on-eabls-private-kisumu-investment-for-votes-says-raila_c1587678 . If kisumu people don't want it Tharaka Nithii will offer land exempt land rates to setup the plant in the county(incoming governor muthomi can make the necessary arrangements). Already the county is a serious sorghum producer.
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HK, I think Omollo stated the reasons why he is skeptical. This is a political reason and it is very healthy for folks to be very skeptical. These people will do anything to get elected. The timing and the way its being rolled out with all the fan fair associated with Jubilee's presidential campaign is enough to raise suspicion.
What is this nonsense?
KBL / EABL was given 80 acres of prime land in the late 70s for free to set up a plant in Kisumu. They did and operated it for a few years then closed it. They sold off all the prime properties built on the land given to them (and which had been compulsorily acquired at the same time as the molasses plant land which GEMA makes most noise about).
Excuse me if I find this a bit funny and no doubt Kisumu people will find it sickening.
Not more thanj a year ago, EABL stated that it was not economic to revive the Kisumu plant or put up another in Western. The ywould continue to transport beer to western and make use of their depots.
I think they are coming to the rescue of Uthamaki and nothing meaningful will come out of that. Makes me think Uhuru has a trip planned for Kisumu and this is pre-campaign propaganda.
Any wayx, if they do set it up, President Raila Odinga will officially "launch" it.
Seriously!! :D :D :D Do you have to oppose everything even if its good? Just like raila http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/28/uhuru-riding-on-eabls-private-kisumu-investment-for-votes-says-raila_c1587678 . If kisumu people don't want it Tharaka Nithii will offer land exempt land rates to setup the plant in the county(incoming governor muthomi can make the necessary arrangements). Already the county is a serious sorghum producer.
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HK, I think Omollo stated the reasons why he is skeptical. This is a political reason and it is very healthy for folks to be very skeptical. These people will do anything to get elected. The timing and the way its being rolled out with all the fan fair associated with Jubilee's presidential campaign is enough to raise suspicion.
Its precisely the reasons omollo stated that EABL is now making the investment.That is they already own land and warehouses etc and readily available raw materials. I believe Oburu is one of the serious sorghum farmers in the area, I bet he's not skeptical.
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EABL sold most of the prime land they got. Warehouses around western were also sold. I know the buyer -Midlands Emporium of Kisumu and Kakamega.
As for pundit please stick to spreading Jubilee propaganda. I was a student when we took a trip to the brewery and saw the entire production. My father used to buy machicha for the cows. So when you LIE that it was a depot I start wondering what else you lie about here. Honesty is not a buffet.
You have HK fantasizing about non existent warehouses. Tell me one reason why a corporation would keep money guzzling assets. I knew the then property manager and did get a copy of the sale prospectus signed by Mrs Muhoho who was the company secretary and wife of Uhuru Kenyatta's uncle! If they kept something- Which I understand they did - it's because there were no buyers since they didn't want to sell to Keroche. But they ripped it apart and scrapped most of what couldn't be shipped to Nairobi.
Please feel free to believe the lie.
Keroche is well marketed in western. I can't see how a factory would serve EABL without the same reasons it closed coming into play. If they increase production beyond the consumption they would need to transport it out of kisumu. Eventually more is transported out to Nairobi etc than is consumed locally. Which fact would make current production in Ruaraka a better option. The monopoly is gone making every minute margin count.
This is all political poppycock and they're drunk on it. HK says he's an economist. Here we see politically motivated economics at work. Pugh!!!
HK, I think Omollo stated the reasons why he is skeptical. This is a political reason and it is very healthy for folks to be very skeptical. These people will do anything to get elected. The timing and the way its being rolled out with all the fan fair associated with Jubilee's presidential campaign is enough to raise suspicion.
Its precisely the reasons omollo stated that EABL is now making the investment.That is they already own land and warehouses etc and readily available raw materials. I believe Oburu is one of the serious sorghum farmers in the area, I bet he's not skeptical.
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EABL sold most of the prime land they got. Warehouses around western were also sold. I know the buyer -Midlands Emporium of Kisumu and Kakamega.
As for pundit please stick to spreading Jubilee propaganda. I was a student when we took a trip to the brewery and saw the entire production. My father used to buy machicha for the cows. So when you LIE that it was a depot I start wondering what else you lie about here. Honesty is not a buffet.
You have HK fantasizing about non existent warehouses. Tell me one reason why a corporation would keep money guzzling assets. I knew the then property manager and did get a copy of the sale prospectus signed by Mrs Muhoho who was the company secretary and wife of Uhuru Kenyatta's uncle! If they kept something- Which I understand they did - it's because there were no buyers since they didn't want to sell to Keroche. But they ripped it apart and scrapped most of what couldn't be shipped to Nairobi.
Please feel free to believe the lie.
Keroche is well marketed in western. I can't see how a factory would serve EABL without the same reasons it closed coming into play. If they increase production beyond the consumption they would need to transport it out of kisumu. Eventually more is transported out to Nairobi etc than is consumed locally. Which fact would make current production in Ruaraka a better option. The monopoly is gone making every minute margin count.
This is all political poppycock and they're drunk on it. HK says he's an economist. Here we see politically motivated economics at work. Pugh!!!
Omollo, So EABL still has land in kisumu right? Already Western and Nyanza produce or has potential to produce lots of sorghum so it makes sense to setup a plant where one the company has assets and readily available raw materials. As cost of transportation goes down,distribution cost wont be significant. EABL is now producing more keg than any other brand except tusker. Spirits and keg are the only categories that are growing. Btw there's nowhere I have ever stated that I am an economist.
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I have run out of ways to explain this simple issue to HK. If anybody else has understood kindly help me end what I suspect is wiiful stupidity.