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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on March 25, 2017, 12:16:09 PM

Title: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on March 25, 2017, 12:16:09 PM
“M-Akiba is the world’s first mobile based government bond and we hope to reap many benefits from it, including financial literacy regarding investment in bonds, financial inclusion as well as promotion of the savings culture which we are really lagging behind in,” Mr Rotich said.

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/Over-17-000-Kenyans-take-up-M-Akiba-bond-on-first-day/539552-3863406-v409bp/index.html
Title: Re: M-Akiba off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on March 25, 2017, 12:16:36 PM
t least 17,000 Kenyans subscribed for the bond on the first day, raising more than Sh16 million.
The uptake was so rapid at some point that the mobile network systems were overwhelmed.
By close of the second day, uptake was headed towards 15 per cent subscription .
The initial offer of Sh150 million will close on April 10 while bigger launch of a Sh4.85 billion bond is planned for June.
Mobile users are allowed to purchase as low as Sh3,000 of the government security.
Title: Re: M-Akiba off to flying start
Post by: hk on March 25, 2017, 07:03:02 PM
t least 17,000 Kenyans subscribed for the bond on the first day, raising more than Sh16 million.
The uptake was so rapid at some point that the mobile network systems were overwhelmed.
By close of the second day, uptake was headed towards 15 per cent subscription .
The initial offer of Sh150 million will close on April 10 while bigger launch of a Sh4.85 billion bond is planned for June.
Mobile users are allowed to purchase as low as Sh3,000 of the government security.
This will be big and the impact of it will forever change the debt market. What impressed me most its the secondary market feature.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Georgesoros on March 26, 2017, 11:34:20 PM
these are long or short term bonds?
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on April 05, 2017, 05:18:55 PM

kenyans have scooped up the initial 150m M-akiba bond ahead of 13 days https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001235220/kenyans-lend-government-sh150million-in-a-record-13-days
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on April 05, 2017, 05:58:25 PM
Wonderful. Now let hope they can innovate more. M-pesa daily limit of 140k need to be increased to 1m.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Empedocles on April 07, 2017, 10:12:56 AM
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: gout on April 11, 2017, 03:59:16 PM
There is need for ring fencing these funds to certain projects to build public confidence/perception in the long run. While returns on government bills is guaranteed there is need to put the funds into tangible good use so that we do not end up with the Eurobond style publicity.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Kichwa on April 11, 2017, 04:34:47 PM
More opportunities for washing stolen cash clean.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Georgesoros on April 11, 2017, 07:42:34 PM
When you buy into these bonds, are they short or long term bonds? What are the maturity rates?
Is this a well thought out thing or a govt borrowing too much and end up like Greece, where bond holders got nothing?
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: MOON Ki on July 24, 2017, 10:28:15 PM
Fast-forward to now:

Quote
The seemingly lucrative M-Akiba bond fell short by 86 per cent at the Nairobi Securities Exchange three weeks after its debut launch on June 30.

The retail government bond which sought to raise Sh1 billion only raised Sh140 million bought by about 235,672 investors.
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/24/m-akiba-bond-down-86-per-cent-at-nse_c1602474

What happened?    The thing actually looks good for savings, and I'm surprised that many more have not taken it up.   The high-flown rhetoric of how the government would now have access to cheaper money for infrastructure etc. also seems to have taken a beating ... at least for now.

Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Omollo on July 24, 2017, 10:35:38 PM
It is actively competing with Big Gambling. The gamblers promise faster returns and have vacuum cleaned the poor of any extra cash.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on July 24, 2017, 10:48:21 PM
Fast-forward to now:

Quote
The seemingly lucrative M-Akiba bond fell short by 86 per cent at the Nairobi Securities Exchange three weeks after its debut launch on June 30.

The retail government bond which sought to raise Sh1 billion only raised Sh140 million bought by about 235,672 investors.
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/24/m-akiba-bond-down-86-per-cent-at-nse_c1602474

What happened?    The thing actually looks good for savings, and I'm surprised that many more have not taken it up.   The high-flown rhetoric of how the government would now have access to cheaper money for infrastructure etc. also seems to have taken a beating ... at least for now.
Also T-bills uptake has plunged for now don't know whether its because of elections or lack of liquidity http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/T-bill-uptake-plunges-as-subscribers-go-for-bonds/539552-4028760-112v7jiz/index.html
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: MOON Ki on July 24, 2017, 11:00:09 PM
Also T-bills uptake has plunged for now don't know whether its because of elections or lack of liquidity http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/T-bill-uptake-plunges-as-subscribers-go-for-bonds/539552-4028760-112v7jiz/index.html

But note that according to the article "Market analysts said this was triggered by investors shifting focus to the Sh30 billion 10-year bond currently on offer".  Obviously at that level, it appears to not be a liquidity issue.  Nor, I imagine, is it likely to be about elections if they are just shifting from one government product to another.

Anyways ... what I am really curious about is the "small person" who was supposed to jump at this, and, by logic, really ought to.   Perhaps elections and liquidity might be major issues there?
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on July 24, 2017, 11:16:11 PM
Also T-bills uptake has plunged for now don't know whether its because of elections or lack of liquidity http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/T-bill-uptake-plunges-as-subscribers-go-for-bonds/539552-4028760-112v7jiz/index.html

But note that according to the article "Market analysts said this was triggered by investors shifting focus to the Sh30 billion 10-year bond currently on offer".  Obviously at that level, it appears to not be a liquidity issue.  Nor, I imagine, is it likely to be about elections if they are just shifting from one government product to another.

Anyway ... what I am really curious about is the "small person" who was supposed to jump at this, and, by logic, really ought to.   Perhaps elections and liquidity might be major issues there?
Before investors would easily buy both longterm high yield and T-bills. The small investors maybe don't have cash or going to election uncertainty want to keep cash or regular deposits, we need more data to know exactly the reason. 
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Omollo on September 12, 2017, 01:37:44 PM
t least 17,000 Kenyans subscribed for the bond on the first day, raising more than Sh16 million.
The uptake was so rapid at some point that the mobile network systems were overwhelmed.
By close of the second day, uptake was headed towards 15 per cent subscription .
The initial offer of Sh150 million will close on April 10 while bigger launch of a Sh4.85 billion bond is planned for June.
Mobile users are allowed to purchase as low as Sh3,000 of the government security.
Not much said about this Economic MOAS :D :D :D :D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhBJJDVAAASa5l.jpg:large)
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on September 12, 2017, 01:42:50 PM
I don't see that as bad news - I see it as opportunity for CBK to innovative and find our what products to push through M-Akiba. Products geared towards the bottom pyramid. Short term fast maturity loans.
Not much said about this Economic MOAS :D :D :D :D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhBJJDVAAASa5l.jpg:large)
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 12, 2017, 04:21:01 PM
I don't see that as bad news - I see it as opportunity for CBK to innovative and find our what products to push through M-Akiba. Products geared towards the bottom pyramid. Short term fast maturity loans.
Not much said about this Economic MOAS :D :D :D :D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJhBJJDVAAASa5l.jpg:large)
This shows that the regular mwananchi doesn't have cash to save. It would be interesting to see how mshwari savings is doing. Also a lot need to be done to educate people on the M-Akiba liquidity .
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Omollo on September 12, 2017, 04:29:14 PM
Do you have any firm stand on ANYTHING?
This shows that the regular mwananchi doesn't have cash to save. It would be interesting to see how mshwari savings is doing. Also a lot need to be done to educate people on the M-Akiba liquidity .
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 12, 2017, 04:45:31 PM
Do you have any firm stand on ANYTHING?
This shows that the regular mwananchi doesn't have cash to save. It would be interesting to see how mshwari savings is doing. Also a lot need to be done to educate people on the M-Akiba liquidity .
I think M-Akiba is great it'll eventually help in diversifying the bond market. Slow uptake this time around shows Kenyans either don't have money or are hesitant to invest. Its not a reflection on the product M-Akiba.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Nefertiti on September 13, 2017, 01:10:05 PM
hk what do you think of the timing? Did the elections affect the uptake?
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 13, 2017, 03:33:54 PM
hk what do you think of the timing? Did the elections affect the uptake?
Yes elections has affected everything, from stock market to mama mboga. Also maybe a 5b bond was a little too big without the supporting advertisement to inform potential buyers.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Nefertiti on September 13, 2017, 07:32:23 PM
Yes hk, they just assumed it would work for the working class. Comparing it with M-shwari... a branded product aggressively marketed. Folks don't use M-shwari for the return - it's really about accessible banking. Low-grade investors already have access to stock market, fixed deposits, saccos, etc.

Personally I think loan market should be left in private hands. GoK should even stop the local T-bill & -bonds story and stick to Exim. Why should Treasury compete with the private sector - including SME who cannot access the international market - are we not shooting ourselves in the foot?
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on September 13, 2017, 07:40:25 PM
It's should be available as a democratic option for those who want... maybe counties can use to float small time bonds.Companies can also it to float small time debt.And you never know when you'll need such an option.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Nefertiti on September 13, 2017, 07:57:05 PM
Pundit am all for innovative options but the timing is just wrong. First, private sector activity has slowed down for a while... interest cap means banks are now limiting SMEs... and more savings/deposits are good to increase the banks float which they must lend. M-kiba competes directly with banks for savings.

Second, international debt options have expanded significantly for GoK - even for counties - I see no motivation for GoK to look inwards.

Third, local debt - M-kiba, T-bill & T-bond rates - are much higher than Exim even for shortterm. Rotich and Dr Njoroge are being imprudent with tax money - they should go to the cheapest source.

This option is only good if Kenya goes rogue and is banned from international market - 0% unlikely. That is the real capital democracy provided by China.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Georgesoros on September 13, 2017, 08:04:40 PM
We are on the same page.
This will only turn into a political thing and people will lose money.
KEEP govt out of business. Stick to referee.

Pundit am all for innovative options but the timing is just wrong. First, private sector activity has slowed down for a while... interest cap means banks are now limiting SMEs... and more savings/deposits are good to increase the banks float which they must lend. M-kiba competes directly with banks for savings.

Second, international debt options have expanded significantly for GoK - even for counties - I see no motivation for GoK to look inwards.

Third, local debt - M-kiba, T-bill & T-bond rates - are much higher than Exim even for shortterm. Rotich and Dr Njoroge are being imprudent with tax money - they should go to the cheapest source.

This option is only good if Kenya goes rogue and is banned from international market - 0% unlikely. That is the real capital democracy provided by China.

Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Omollo on September 13, 2017, 09:33:25 PM
I said before and will repeat: These are Jubilee ponzi schemes. Ponzi schemes in Kenya emerge just before elections and wind up at the end. The following 5 years are used to pursue a mirage just before another election and a new set of schemes.

Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 14, 2017, 09:03:50 AM
Pundit am all for innovative options but the timing is just wrong. First, private sector activity has slowed down for a while... interest cap means banks are now limiting SMEs... and more savings/deposits are good to increase the banks float which they must lend. M-kiba competes directly with banks for savings.

Second, international debt options have expanded significantly for GoK - even for counties - I see no motivation for GoK to look inwards.

Third, local debt - M-kiba, T-bill & T-bond rates - are much higher than Exim even for shortterm. Rotich and Dr Njoroge are being imprudent with tax money - they should go to the cheapest source.

This option is only good if Kenya goes rogue and is banned from international market - 0% unlikely. That is the real capital democracy provided by China.
M-Akiba bonds are cheaper for government than treasury bonds. So the governments gets cheaper loans while savers get better return than fixed deposits. After all banks just take regular deposits and buy tbills while paying depositors measly deposit rates. Eventually M-Akiba should not only diversify government credit option but lower overall rates. If government can borrow directly from its citizen ala uncle Sam bonds the banks would be forced to lend to private sector to make money.
The onus is on banks especially investments banks to come up with innovative ways of lending to private sector by introducing junk bonds pegged to M-Akiba, the CMA needs to relax debt listing rules to make it easier. Also we need securitization law to make easier to bundle loans together.
The problem with exclusively borrowing in international markets is currency risk. An influx $8b(annual budget deficit) not driven by trade would strengthen the Ksh. decimating tourism, horticulture and manufacturing. Also if ksh. weakens by 10% it becomes more expensive to pay back and from there its a cascading effect. The key is to have both local and international.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 14, 2017, 09:07:03 AM
We are on the same page.
This will only turn into a political thing and people will lose money.
KEEP govt out of business. Stick to referee.

Government isn't in business by issuing M-Akiba bonds anymore than when treasury issues tbills.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Nefertiti on September 14, 2017, 12:14:59 PM
M-Akiba bonds are cheaper for government than treasury bonds. So the governments gets cheaper loans while savers get better return than fixed deposits. After all banks just take regular deposits and buy tbills while paying depositors measly deposit rates. Eventually M-Akiba should not only diversify government credit option but lower overall rates. If government can borrow directly from its citizen ala uncle Sam bonds the banks would be forced to lend to private sector to make money.
The onus is on banks especially investments banks to come up with innovative ways of lending to private sector by introducing junk bonds pegged to M-Akiba, the CMA needs to relax debt listing rules to make it easier. Also we need securitization law to make easier to bundle loans together.
The problem with exclusively borrowing in international markets is currency risk. An influx $8b(annual budget deficit) not driven by trade would strengthen the Ksh. decimating tourism, horticulture and manufacturing. Also if ksh. weakens by 10% it becomes more expensive to pay back and from there its a cascading effect. The key is to have both local and international.

The trouble with M-Akiba is that it siphons money from the limited savings/deposits pool - which the banks need to lend and consumers to spend. It is a poor substitute for t-bonds/bills. If M-Akiba succeeds, the banks will not have money for SMEs at all and retail will suffer, at least the fraction now in GoK hands.

We appreciate the necessity of local & international debt mix. The elephant in the room remains - forex rate, GDP, inflation, etc are stable - but private sector continues to suffer. US private sector is massive, robust and cannot be comparable to Kenya - ours must be nurtured by GoK. This is the trouble with reforms - brace for the impact.

Perhaps the reforms should be staggered? Interest caps, CBK bad debt rules, real estate taxes, M-Akiba, etc. We can have a stimulus package.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: hk on September 14, 2017, 01:11:24 PM

The trouble with M-Akiba is that it siphons money from the limited savings/deposits pool - which the banks need to lend and consumers to spend. It is a poor substitute for t-bonds/bills. If M-Akiba succeeds, the banks will not have money for SMEs at all and retail will suffer, at least the fraction now in GoK hands.

We appreciate the necessity of local & international debt mix. The elephant in the room remains - forex rate, GDP, inflation, etc are stable - but private sector continues to suffer. US private sector is massive, robust and cannot be comparable to Kenya - ours must be nurtured by GoK. This is the trouble with reforms - brace for the impact.

Perhaps the reforms should be staggered? Interest caps, CBK bad debt rules, real estate taxes, M-Akiba, etc. We can have a stimulus package.
The available data shows that banks are loading up on t bills instead of lending to private sector, if government stopped borrowing or shifted borrowing to M-Akiba banks wouldn't have any other option other than to lend to private sector. This is what mwiraria did. That's why its imperative that banks develop another business model to lend to private sector at a higher rate than stipulated spread. That's why junk bonds might come in handy.
Stimulus packages I am sceptical, because such things are short term. What we need is a longterm policy to encourage capital goods investment and lowering of burden to PAYEs and vat. Investors needs predictable tax regime. In Kenya every budget there's always a change which affects investment.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: KenyanPlato on September 14, 2017, 01:35:32 PM
Rotich should be replaced with a Gema CS. Kalenjins have no exprience in running dynamic economies like kenyan one. Rotich is running experiments on KE economy. I think Ruto is advising him. We know Ruto barely passed his botany classes so for him to be advising a CS on economy is tragic.

Kalenjins belong to Livestock ministry. there they can comeup with plans to steal cattle from pokots
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: KenyanPlato on September 14, 2017, 01:51:34 PM
Look at what Ruto arm of the government is doing

http://www.nation.co.ke/business/Debt-burden-mounts-as-Treasury-borrows-Sh430bn-in-5-months/996-4095080-anxnof/index.html
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: Nefertiti on September 14, 2017, 01:53:44 PM
Rotich should be replaced with a Gema CS. Kalenjins have no exprience in running dynamic economies like kenyan one. Rotich is running experiments on KE economy. I think Ruto is advising him. We know Ruto barely passed his botany classes so for him to be advising a CS on economy is tragic.

Kalenjins belong to Livestock ministry. there they can comeup with plans to steal cattle from pokots

The best economic planner in Kenya was Tom Mboya - in the 60s - when the economy experienced a real boom. With Mwai Kibaki of course. In fact it is the same master stroke Mwiraria brought back under Kibaki. Today the planning job is de facto Dr Njoroge who is setting fiscal policy - cause we resorted to US model in 2010.
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: KenyanPlato on September 14, 2017, 02:10:07 PM
TJ found a Mzungu economy and there was a lot of room to grow. with free funds from West it was easier to grow the economy as new aristocrats bought land and built mansions..My old man built himself a 7 bedroom mcmansion on a 50 acre of land. he thought of himself as a lord of poverty because he even bought calves from delamere  farm. The family still has this breed of short Holsteins with big round stomachs.. The person managing economy is Rotich and he is doing a poor job
Title: Re: M-Akiba (world first mobile based goverment bond) off to flying start
Post by: RV Pundit on September 19, 2017, 09:19:12 AM
seem treasury concurs with HK - and is not giving up on m-akiba. way to go.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/news/Treasury-plans-another-M-Akiba-despite-low-subscription/3815534-4101488-mhhu6u/index.html