Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on April 26, 2016, 02:57:11 PM
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Ofcourse I can name Maina Kiai. Then it gets harder. I need names of Kikuyus [Embus and Merus] who:
1. Stand up and be counted opposing Extra Judicial Killings
2. Still believe in the cause of IPPG which forced Moi to agree to minimum reforms before elections
3. Oppose the unwarranted and unnecessary use of teargas and deployment of riot police all over Kenya
4. Oppose the Uhuru Security Laws that undermined the constitution
5. Believe in Land Reform
6. Can swear that the ICC is NOT a Raila Odinga court (good if it is trying him and bad if it is not)
7. Can admit that Uhuru Kenyatta is leading the Most Corrupt Government in Africa
8. Does not secretly believe Kikuyus were born to rule Kenya
9. Does not believe other Kenyans are "inferior"
10. Can admit that GEMA managers FAIL wherever they are sent to run GoK institutions
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Out nearly 10M GEMA surely they deserve more respect than your attempt to dehumanize them.
These kinds of threads surely have no place here.
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Omollo this is just further proof you are anti-Kikuyu.
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Some of it is true. I believe most gikuyu have the mentally that they come third after whites and Indians. This was the structure put in place by kenyatta senior after borrowing from colonial era.
Pure capitalism structure is what has allowed the country to go to brink of war. Everyone is trying to enrich himself regardless of the cost to society. And central are dominant.
Remember in days of high school, it was easy to spot personalities from more socialist communities who tend to be less selfish...Under the current kenyan capitalist system, such communities suffer most (talk of maasai etc) and have been labelled as lazy.
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I disagree. You have not demonstrated why this issue cannot be be debated here. There are many forms of tribalism including supporting the State Murder of other people (not your own).
1. So far having done a thorough search of the media, I have noted that there is not a single person from Central other than Maina Kiai, Adv. Nderitu, Githongo opposing EJK. On the contrary there has been massive support for extra Judicial Killings from this area. Support (as shown by the frquency and quantity of statements of support in the media) seems to pick up steam one year after Kibaki takes over and hits the roof with the Westgate attack.
2. The number of Central MPs who support enactment of minimum reforms as proposed by the Post PEV commissions: ZERO
Out nearly 10M GEMA surely they deserve more respect than your attempt to dehumanize them.
These kinds of threads surely have no place here.
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What is anti-Kikuyu about proven facts?
Omollo this is just further proof you are anti-Kikuyu.
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RVT
What you say may be true but my thread is based on the 10 reference points I made earlier. How is it possible that out of 10 Million people (according to Pundit) one cannot get a dozen dissenting from the collective political view? Maina Kiai, John Githongo, Marthan Karua are publicly harangued and subjected to collective and mass political pillory for daring to dissent.
There is no time I never hear of Luos being called sheep who vote blindly for Raila. Yet Luos voted for Kibaki en-mass in 2002. In 2007 and 2013 Kibaki and Uhuru got more votes in Nyanza than Raila got in Central. Yet the narrative continues unabated. Now when I point out a trait - which BTW I can prove - accusations come streaming in.
How shall we face tribalism if we keep sweeping it under the carpet?
Some of it is true. I believe most gikuyu have the mentally that they come third after whites and Indians. This was the structure put in place by kenyatta senior after borrowing from colonial era.
Pure capitalism structure is what has allowed the country to go to brink of war. Everyone is trying to enrich himself regardless of the cost to society. And central are dominant.
Remember in days of high school, it was easy to spot personalities from more socialist communities who tend to be less selfish...Under the current kenyan capitalist system, such communities suffer most (talk of maasai etc) and have been labelled as lazy.
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Omollo,
This is what Jubilee, especially TNA, wants you to think and say. They need you to alienate the regular GEMA. That is their oxygen.
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Termie
If I knew there were a number of people to redeem in that province I would do it. There is such a collective spirit over there I worry that the day a non Kikuyu is elected the neighboring countries will record a sharp rise in refugees.
People do not reach that level of collective paranoia just by reading Omollo. It is sad because instead of this matter being addressed, talking about it has been equated to holocaust denial.
Omollo,
This is what Jubilee, especially TNA, wants you to think and say. They need you to alienate the regular GEMA. That is their oxygen.
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Termie
If I knew there were a number of people to redeem in that province I would do it. There is such a collective spirit over there I worry that the day a non Kikuyu is elected the neighboring countries will record a sharp rise in refugees.
People do not reach that level of collective paranoia just by reading Omollo. It is sad because instead of this matter being addressed, talking about it has been equated to holocaust denial.
Omollo,
This is what Jubilee, especially TNA, wants you to think and say. They need you to alienate the regular GEMA. That is their oxygen.
It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
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You speak for me. The wording make it no-go zone for me and any decent person here. It okay to say Majority of GEMA think this way or that way. It something else to say claim if there are decent gema people apart from Kiai. Of course they are many running into thousands. You can count many thousands married to Luos for starters. If they believe in what Omollo alleges..would they love and bear kids with Luos?
This thread is in such a bad taste it cannot be rehabilitated except in choo.com
It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
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It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
Twenty only and you say I am wrong?
May be the 20 should get louder as the din of those with a contrary view drowns theirs. There is nothing to write home about when one quietly say stealing is bad but then dips his hand in the stolen candy jar. In case it didn't come out clearly we are talking mass and collective denial of principles and values where the tribal demagogue takes precedent over all else.
Take the case of Koigi wa Wamwere. He has undergone not so unpredictable changes. From being a detainee opposed to all forms of oppression to a Kibaki sycophant whom Uhuru found to Kibakish to give a job. What happened to his stand between 1990s and 2003? You can guess.
Did not Murungi hide in the US Embassy for his principles or was it his tribe after all?
Termie, I really don't have to go searching in the former mau mau tunnels to find some 20 people who still adhere to basic human principles and eschew blindly following whatever tribal demagogue emerges. There was a large pool of them in the 90s fighting Moi and elucidating on the latest in Human Rights and Good politics - well educated, candid and photogenic. Did they perish in an epidemic so that you have to get 20 riff-raff (sorry for the arrogance) to parade before us?
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It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
Twenty only and you say I am wrong?
May be the 20 should get louder as the din of those with a contrary view drowns theirs. There is nothing to write home about when one quietly say stealing is bad but then dips his hand in the stolen candy jar. In case it didn't come out clearly we are talking mass and collective denial of principles and values where the tribal demagogue takes precedent over all else.
Take the case of Koigi wa Wamwere. He has undergone not so unpredictable changes. From being a detainee opposed to all forms of oppression to a Kibaki sycophant whom Uhuru found to Kibakish to give a job. What happened to his stand between 1990s and 2003? You can guess.
Did not Murungi hide in the US Embassy for his principles or was it his tribe after all?
Termie, I really don't have to go searching in the former mau mau tunnels to find some 20 people who still adhere to basic human principles and eschew blindly following whatever tribal demagogue emerges. There was a large pool of them in the 90s fighting Moi and elucidating on the latest in Human Rights and Good politics - well educated, candid and photogenic. Did they perish in an epidemic so that you have to get 20 riff-raff (sorry for the arrogance) to parade before us?
Kenya is a tribalistic nation. It's better when your tribe is in power. Being in power is a life and death situation. Why should GEMA commit suicide?
The more productive approach, I think is to ask, why is tribalism such a force in the first place?
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You speak for me. The wording make it no-go zone for me and any decent person here. It okay to say Majority of GEMA think this way or that way. It something else to say claim if there are decent gema people apart from Kiai. Of course they are many running into thousands. You can count many thousands married to Luos for starters. If they believe in what Omollo alleges..would they love and bear kids with Luos?
This thread is in such a bad taste it cannot be rehabilitated except in choo.com
Of course there are many well dressed people from GEMA. I never denied that the women make good wives for Luos or should I say Luo make good partners. My Kalenjin wife votes with me. It has never occurred to her or me that she vote different from how I vote. I would like to assume (in the true African spirit) that all Luo women married to Merus vote the way the Meru husbands vote. They are in other words part of the "Collective". I should be surprised if any serious man would argue with that position.
Any Luo woman in Central therefore stands equally charged alongside his man. In Gatundu North Constituency Raila scored 349 votes. Should I assume those were Luo women? I think not. Those are people with grudges against Mama Ngina over land and other worldly things. The 349 are not driven by principle but personal vendetta. I doubt that such a large number will repeat as they were "cut to size" after holding demonstration against Uhuru Kenyatta. The entire Gatundu could boast of having no dissent under Moses Kuria.
Has Uhuru Kenyatta ever condemned Moses Kuria?
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I think Omollo has every right to offend, just like he has to contend with the massive stream of offensive material directed at his preferred political leader(s).
The most dangerous area for us as a nation is to work ourselves into complicit silence through fear of causing offence.
Omollo is right, Luos are constantly referred to as sheep yet, the accusers voted to a man for their man. Perhaps they are more sheepish than the "sheep"? We currently have a situation where both Ruto and Uhuru are practising obscene levels of tribalism whilst working hard to criminalise(by implication) the necessary discussion of their brand of tribalism.
Just last week Odinga was accused of tribalism for trying to assemble a tribal coalition. His accusers? Members of Jubilee. It's a joke.
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Kenya is a tribalistic nation. It's better when your tribe is in power. Being in power is a life and death situation. Why should GEMA commit suicide?
The more productive approach, I think is to ask, why is tribalism such a force in the first place?
Exactly. Why is tribalism? What are the solutions? What are Omollo's suggestions?
More devolution and equalization has been suggested to deal with development inequality. Politically the parliamentary system neutralizes tyranny. You cannot mandate love and unity but you can mitigate division through cohesive policies.
We can borrow from countries that have grappled with sectarianism -- SA, Rwanda, US, etc. They have managed to contain deeper rifts than Kenya.
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Kenya is a tribalistic nation. It's better when your tribe is in power. Being in power is a life and death situation. Why should GEMA commit suicide?
The more productive approach, I think is to ask, why is tribalism such a force in the first place?
Exactly. Why is tribalism? What are the solutions? What are Omollo's suggestions?
More devolution and equalization has been suggested to deal with development inequality. Politically the parliamentary system neutralizes tyranny. You cannot mandate love and unity but you can mitigate division through cohesive policies.
We can borrow from countries that have grappled with sectarianism -- SA, Rwanda, US, etc. They have managed to contain deeper rifts than Kenya.
I am not too sure about Rwanda. That place is a ticking time bomb.
South Africa has for the most part very similar ethnic groups. Zulus, Xhosas, Swazis etc could be lumped together much like Luhyas in Kenya. In fact, if you look at countries in the South, from Tz onwards ethnicity is less of an issue. There are exceptions such as the Matabeleland massacres; but for the most part, the Bantu in that part of the world is not about to kill fellow Bantu.
When you get to East Africa you have an interesting collision of cultures. The Bantu meets Nilote and Cushite. A mzungu comes in, lumps them together and hands the reins over to a member of one group.
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First is the usual question or is it irritation of demanding that every complaint has to be made by a Think Tank offering solutions. Nowhere but in Jubilee's head is one required to provide solutions to the very bastards who have failed miserably.
Have they not read the Constitution that clearly outlaws tribalism while providing clearer guidelines as to how to eschew it than any critics? Is Uhuru so dumb that he is unaware of the shameful tribalism in his appointments to tax-payer funded positions? Are those who collectively support the bias equally stupid and retarded? When he dishes out state funds to support tribal cultivation of a narcotic is he in need of suggestions of how not to do it? Is he supporting farming or is it the buying of votes using taxes?
I am sure given to choose Uhuru would embrace the Kagame draconian tactics which deny ordinary citizens a voice just because they belong to the unwanted tribe. Bryan has already shown how already we have double standards in the very use of tribe for political organization." Our tribalism is Right and acceptable but theirs is wrong and undesirable" is Uhuru's mantra.
Back to my earlier position: Everywhere I see the GEMA tribal intelligentsia providing the intellectual apology for the raw discrimination. Others are guided by the results of years of intimidation that dictate they never mention the crimes of tribalism. "Decent" people should not mention Uhuru's tribalism lest that scandalize "decent" debate. Reminds of of the Houyhnhnms and Yahoos in Swifts Gulliver's Travels.
The countries Robina mentions have not eliminated sectarianism. However one of them has at least combined moral opprobrium and institutions to at least address it. This did not come on a silver platter or by the avoidance of mentioning the evil.Martin Luther King did not lead the Civil Rights movement by avoiding to address or name Racism.
Had it been Germany (which Robina likes to lift up) Uhuru would have been forced to resign for simply suggesting that Kenya exit the ICC while he is still a SUSPECT! Where is the opprobrium? Nowhere. Instead the focus is on those who raise it.
It should be a crime for a group of politicians to indoctrinate whole tribes against modern principles and values of running public affairs. Uhuru and lately Ruto have succeeded in doing just that to the Kalenjin and Kikuyu (GEMA if you like).
Like Thatcher, I say No, No No!! We shall name tribalism even if it involves 10 million people. Kenya is fast approaching 50 Million people.
Exactly. Why is tribalism? What are the solutions? What are Omollo's suggestions?
More devolution and equalization has been suggested to deal with development inequality. Politically the parliamentary system neutralizes tyranny. You cannot mandate love and unity but you can mitigate division through cohesive policies.
We can borrow from countries that have grappled with sectarianism -- SA, Rwanda, US, etc. They have managed to contain deeper rifts than Kenya.
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First is the usual question or is it irritation of demanding that every complaint has to be made by a Think Tank offering solutions. Nowhere but in Jubilee's head is one required to provide solutions to the very bastards who have failed miserably.
Have they not read the Constitution that clearly outlaws tribalism while providing clearer guidelines as to how to eschew it than any critics? Is Uhuru so dumb that he is unaware of the shameful tribalism in his appointments to tax-payer funded positions? Are those who collectively support the bias equally stupid and retarded? When he dishes out state funds to support tribal cultivation of a narcotic is he in need of suggestions of how not to do it? Is he supporting farming or is it the buying of votes using taxes?
I am sure given to choose Uhuru would embrace the Kagame draconian tactics which deny ordinary citizens a voice just because they belong to the unwanted tribe. Bryan has already shown how already we have double standards in the very use of tribe for political organization." Our tribalism is Right and acceptable but theirs is wrong and undesirable" is Uhuru's mantra.
Back to my earlier position: Everywhere I see the GEMA tribal intelligentsia providing the intellectual apology for the raw discrimination. Others are guided by the results of years of intimidation that dictate they never mention the crimes of tribalism. "Decent" people should not mention Uhuru's tribalism lest that scandalize "decent" debate. Reminds of of the Houyhnhnms and Yahoos in Swifts Gulliver's Travels.
The countries Robina mentions have not eliminated sectarianism. However one of them has at least combined moral opprobrium and institutions to at least address it. This did not come on a silver platter or by the avoidance of mentioning the evil.Martin Luther King did not lead the Civil Rights movement by avoiding to address or name Racism.
Had it been Germany (which Robina likes to lift up) Uhuru would have been forced to resign for simply suggesting that Kenya exit the ICC while he is still a SUSPECT! Where is the opprobrium? Nowhere. Instead the focus is on those who raise it.
It should be a crime for a group of politicians to indoctrinate whole tribes against modern principles and values of running public affairs. Uhuru and lately Ruto have succeeded in doing just that to the Kalenjin and Kikuyu (GEMA if you like).
Like Thatcher, I say No, No No!! We shall name tribalism even if it involves 10 million people. Kenya is fast approaching 50 Million people.
Exactly. Why is tribalism? What are the solutions? What are Omollo's suggestions?
More devolution and equalization has been suggested to deal with development inequality. Politically the parliamentary system neutralizes tyranny. You cannot mandate love and unity but you can mitigate division through cohesive policies.
We can borrow from countries that have grappled with sectarianism -- SA, Rwanda, US, etc. They have managed to contain deeper rifts than Kenya.
Omollo,
I don't talk about GEMA tribalism, not because it is not outrageous or intimidation, but because I don't know what to do about it. There is a constitution and once in a while an Okoiti will go to court with some prayer. When I know what to do about it, I'll not hesitate to talk about it.
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I am not too sure about Rwanda. That place is a ticking time bomb.
From the late 1990s on, my late father frequently told me that Kenya was a ticking time bomb that would surely explode one day. That was what first came to my my mind when the PEV started. Just before that I heard of something called "41 versus 1", which suggested a great deal of resentment against some "1". Have those resentments been resolved, or are they being made worse? Is the current situation anything more than an uneasy peace implicitly enforced by the ICC? (In relation to this, Kofi Anan recently warned us that those who give up the quest for justice in return for peace inevitably learn a bitter lesson.)
We should, on all sides, aim to avoid words and actions that increase resentment and hatred. But at the same time, we ought engage in some soul-searching and open discussions, even if we consider them somewhat distasteful, along with appropriate changes. Otherwise Round Two is just a matter of when, not if---no matter how long the "peace" lasts.
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Now it about Uhuru & some intelligensia. That is some progress from Omollo. You need to dial back so people can have decent debate here. You cannot come here accusing 10M minus one Kiaia and expect to engage in a serious debate about tribalism..when you're making worse.
If you read Moonki take..it day and night from yours. That round 2 is invetiable. It something thing else if he was to advocate for round 2.You need to tread the fine line here....
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It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
Perhaps one could look at Omollo's words as just hyperbole, borne of frustration or something. And perhaps not. But it seems to me that there is certainly much antipathy towards GEMA, and it is not clear that all of it has no basis. (How did we get to "41 vs. 1"?)
Maybe what might help would be to have people like your 20 buddies (and the like) doing more, by way of speaking up to counter the "bad elements" (Ngunyi, Kuria, et al), who seem to relish going out of their way to remind others (in less-than-friendly tones) of who is "on top, has been on top, and will always be on top".) The continuing association with the large-scale theft of public funds, grabbing of land, etc., also probably doesn't help ... although, no doubt, "everyone is eating".
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Omollo says there is a political correctness (PC) that has choked debate and ferments tension. Imposed by post-PEV policy. He then insists any prodding of his thoughts or assertions other than outright concurrence is part of that same PC censorship :) Alas, how do we engage him?
Disagreeing that you are off the handle, of whatever motivation, is part of the debate. If one begrudges the Somali their entrepreneurial gene, then one could quickly bundy them collectively as "terrorists" or "Al Shaabab sympathizers". The trigger being the piling bodycount from the atrocities. It takes a certain restraint to maintain civility in constructive debate. Otherwise you have Kuria or Ngunyi kind of "honesty".
Most of these supremacist GEMA folks can issue you a similar checklist of "Luo traits" and ask for a dozen salvagable iota. Oh wait, it landed Kuria in hot soup...
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It should be discussed. But there are ways of doing it that worsens the circling of the wagons so to speak. It's not fair to say that there are less than 12 GEMA that see a lot that is wrong, when I can personally count more than 20; maybe they are not famous, but there are full blooded Kikuyus that don't care for kamwana.
Perhaps one could look at Omollo's words as just hyperbole, borne of frustration or something. And perhaps not. But it seems to me that there is certainly much antipathy towards GEMA, and it is not clear that all of it has no basis. (How did we get to "41 vs. 1"?)
Maybe what might help would be to have people like your 20 buddies (and the like) doing more, by way of speaking up to counter the "bad elements" (Ngunyi, Kuria, et al), who seem to relish going out of their way to remind others (in less-than-friendly tones) of who is "on top, has been on top, and will always be on top".) The continuing association with the large-scale theft of public funds, grabbing of land, etc., also probably doesn't help ... although, no doubt, "everyone is eating".
Nobody on nipate.org has denied tribalism, and specifically GEMA tribalism, as an issue in Kenya whenever it has been raised. There simply has been nothing to debate.
I only pointed out why I think the purpose is different in Kenya. Not so much to favor GEMA as to create the animosity such as we see in Omollo's points.
In that context, Omollo's approach and subsequent reaction are just odd. One has to think he is responding to some trolls on .com but using this forum. But the trolls are there, not here.
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Robina is simply mis-characterizing my position and that is part of the debate.
However if I may adopt her thinking, I would say it is self-censorship resulting from intimidation. For example her labeling me "anti-Kikuyu" earlier in the debate would inevitably have led to an avalanche of similar attacks and labels and resulted in me cowing to the intimidation and folding my goat-skin and vanishing in the dark. I chose to stand my ground. Now there aren't many who stand their ground.
There is no such thing as" Post-PEV policy" and I pray I have not used the term unconsciously somewhere in this debate. I'll clarify: PEV is being used as a big stick to wave over our heads. The saddest part of it is that the very perpetrators who dished out millions (50 Million in the case of Uhuru Kenyatta) are at the forefront of this intimidation. The manifestation of this wide and amorphous intimidation is a topic on its own. Suffice is to say the Perpetrators have scored a bulls eye by making the activities benefit them politically. They killed, they used the killings to glorify and popularize themselves and now use the same to demonize incongruous voices. PEV for them is an ever giving gift.No wonder their retinue and hangers on find it ever so attractive. See how Kuria has made a career out of it with his panga-wielding rallies a grenade throw away from Uhuru Kenyatta's birthplace of Ichaweri.
Note that I have not denied Robina or anybody the right to disagree with me. However I sense that Robina is doing exactly what she is accusing me of.
Omollo says there is a political correctness (PC) that has choked debate and ferments tension. Imposed by post-PEV policy. He then insists any prodding of his thoughts or assertions other than outright concurrence is part of that same PC censorship :) Alas, how do we engage him?
Disagreeing that you are off the handle, of whatever motivation, is part of the debate. If one begrudges the Somali their entrepreneurial gene, then one could quickly bundy them collectively as "terrorists" or "Al Shaabab sympathizers". The trigger being the piling bodycount from the atrocities. It takes a certain restraint to maintain civility in constructive debate. Otherwise you have Kuria or Ngunyi kind of "honesty".
Most of these supremacist GEMA folks can issue you a similar checklist of "Luo traits" and ask for a dozen salvagable iota. Oh wait, it landed Kuria in hot soup...
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MoonKi
I cannot deny there is frustration with collective and mass sycophancy. It would assuage [a little of that] vexation if one occasionally met one of those 20 guys that Termie counted. However when one meets a wall of obsequiousness emanating from the same people questions as to whether it is a genetic or medical (if you like) aberration come to mind.
Robina suggests consigning it to the constitution and institution. Has she not seen how the same hoodlums have savaged the so called independent commissions? Look at the National Cohesion and Integration Commission. Who could appoint Ole Kaparo to head it unless he intended to kill it? The defacto official language in the secretariat is Tharaka / Meru. I wonder why? Maa is fast picking up.
In the meantime the Collective Mass Sycophancy is cheering!
Perhaps one could look at Omollo's words as just hyperbole, borne of frustration or something. And perhaps not. But it seems to me that there is certainly much antipathy towards GEMA, and it is not clear that all of it has no basis. (How did we get to "41 vs. 1"?)
Maybe what might help would be to have people like your 20 buddies (and the like) doing more, by way of speaking up to counter the "bad elements" (Ngunyi, Kuria, et al), who seem to relish going out of their way to remind others (in less-than-friendly tones) of who is "on top, has been on top, and will always be on top".) The continuing association with the large-scale theft of public funds, grabbing of land, etc., also probably doesn't help ... although, no doubt, "everyone is eating".
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MoonKi
I cannot deny there is frustration with collective and mass sycophancy. It would assuage [a little of that] vexation if one occasionally met one of those 20 guys that Termie counted. However when one meets a wall of obsequiousness emanating from the same people questions as to whether it is a genetic or medical (if you like) aberration come to mind.
Robina suggests consigning it to the constitution and institution. Has she not seen how the same hoodlums have savaged the so called independent commissions? Look at the National Cohesion and Integration Commission. Who could appoint Ole Kaparo to head it unless he intended to kill it? The defacto official language in the secretariat is Tharaka / Meru. I wonder why? Maa is fast picking up.
In the meantime the Collective Mass Sycophancy is cheering!
Perhaps one could look at Omollo's words as just hyperbole, borne of frustration or something. And perhaps not. But it seems to me that there is certainly much antipathy towards GEMA, and it is not clear that all of it has no basis. (How did we get to "41 vs. 1"?)
Maybe what might help would be to have people like your 20 buddies (and the like) doing more, by way of speaking up to counter the "bad elements" (Ngunyi, Kuria, et al), who seem to relish going out of their way to remind others (in less-than-friendly tones) of who is "on top, has been on top, and will always be on top".) The continuing association with the large-scale theft of public funds, grabbing of land, etc., also probably doesn't help ... although, no doubt, "everyone is eating".
I didn't really count them as such. That is a round estimate. My point was that right off the bat, you did not have the literal facts on your side, if your claim was literal, which I know it is not. You want to highlight intransigence of people with a conscience. That is fair enough.
Most people are just trying to survive. Even the "favored" ones. When it's time to vote, they see the messages put out and the counter messages, and it's hard to blame anyone in that environment for voting the way they do. There are also some who vote out of ethnic delusions of grandeur; it's their right.
How did it start? Jomo Kenyatta laid the seed. Some would argue and it becomes a chicken/egg question. History matters, but ultimately the only fact that we must deal with is the chicken and the egg that are presently both here.
It would be nice to see what ideas you have, if any, for sorting out this conundrum.
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I wonder if these are part of the Windy Assassin's list. They are quite vocal too, most of them. They are not known to conform to the nyooba covenant. Michuki had a phrase for their hopping nature, which should redeem them from your hailstorm and perhaps spare the sin city :D
Karua, Shebesh, Muite, Imanyara, Githongo, Kiai, Bishop Wanjiru, Kariuki Wanjiru (Mathare MP), Mwaura (nominated MP), Pasaris, Imanyara Gitobu, Imanyara Mugambi (ODM founder), Paul Mwangi (FORA lawyer), Peter Kenneth, Bob Njagi (ODM youthwinger)
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The nation-state concept is a work in progress. The mirror that told lies. You can't believe the horrible, ugly figure in the mirror... you are mighty and strong... this can't be you!!
You are right, this mirror is lying. Let us go get the mirror of truth... it was buried in the hills long ago by the great ancestors. We may have to search for it but am sure we will find it. This lying one we got from the smith at the market the other day after we discovered cast upon the old one a spell... it means we must be wary of deceitful merchants. It was clearly a fraud. How can all these people accept this mirror that lies!! There is only one mirror of truth, out in the hills somewhere...
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Robina
I was searching for the English version for you. Here is the image (results) and the caption below it. I am sure you do not need an interpretation but I will stand by just in case you need it contextualized :D
In brief I can never swear that majority is always wrong!
(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Results-of-the-1934-German-Referendum-approving-Hitler.png)
A referendum on merging the posts of Chancellor and President was held in Germany on 19 August 1934,[1] after the death of President Paul von Hindenburg seventeen days earlier. The German leadership sought to gain approval for Adolf Hitler's assumption of supreme power. The overwhelmingly positive result of this referendum allowed Hitler to claim public support for his activities as the Führer and de facto Head of State of Germany. In fact, he had assumed these offices and powers immediately upon von Hindenburg's death and used the referendum to legitimize this move, taking the title Führer und Reichskanzler (Führer and Chancellor).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1934
The nation-state concept is a work in progress. The mirror that told lies. You can't believe the horrible, ugly figure in the mirror... you are mighty and strong... this can't be you!!
You are right, this mirror is lying. Let us go get the mirror of truth... it was buried in the hills long ago by the great ancestors. We may have to search for it but am sure we will find it. This lying one we got from the smith at the market the other day after we discovered cast upon the old one a spell... it means we must be wary of deceitful merchants. It was clearly a fraud. How can all these people accept this mirror that lies!! There is only one mirror of truth, out in the hills somewhere...
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So clever 8)
Hitler was the evil genius and this does not negate the predominance of benevolent genius. The exception validates the rule.
Examples of power grabs with positive outcomes :
Winston Churchill - blank cheque on Hitler
Abraham Lincoln - defeated Southern Confederacy
Vladimir Putin - containing NATO hegemony
Chinese Communist Party - postwar renaissance
The mirror that told lies... it's a walk the talk parody on the virtue of active engagement. It changes perspective in a way armchair critique never would. You should have to work in a GEMA run establishment and confront your ogres.
Robina
I was searching for the English version for you. Here is the image (results) and the caption below it. I am sure you do not need an interpretation but I will stand by just in case you need it contextualized :D
In brief I can never swear that majority is always wrong!
(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Results-of-the-1934-German-Referendum-approving-Hitler.png)
A referendum on merging the posts of Chancellor and President was held in Germany on 19 August 1934,[1] after the death of President Paul von Hindenburg seventeen days earlier. The German leadership sought to gain approval for Adolf Hitler's assumption of supreme power. The overwhelmingly positive result of this referendum allowed Hitler to claim public support for his activities as the Führer and de facto Head of State of Germany. In fact, he had assumed these offices and powers immediately upon von Hindenburg's death and used the referendum to legitimize this move, taking the title Führer und Reichskanzler (Führer and Chancellor).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_referendum,_1934
The nation-state concept is a work in progress. The mirror that told lies. You can't believe the horrible, ugly figure in the mirror... you are mighty and strong... this can't be you!!
You are right, this mirror is lying...
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So clever 8)
Hitler was the evil genius and this does not negate the predominance of benevolent genius. The exception validates the rule.
Examples of power grabs with positive outcomes :
Winston Churchill - blank cheque on Hitler
Abraham Lincoln - defeated Southern Confederacy
Vladimir Putin - containing NATO hegemony
Chinese Communist Party - postwar renaissance
The mirror that told lies... it's a walk the talk parody on the virtue of active engagement. It changes perspective in a way armchair critique never would. You should have to work in a GEMA run establishment and confront your ogres.
I rather prefer GEMA worked in my turf and confront its [their] demons. If I belonged to a group that works and acts as would any robot, I would probably consider that. As you can recall Luos voted for Kibaki (a Kikuyu) at a time when Moi and KANU believed that could never happen. That confirmed that Luos can vote strategically for anybody regardless of tribe.
Walking the talk: Is it not Kibaki who rejected the entire country that voted for him and opted for his village? A guy who tongazas a national belle who turns up willing but he zips it up and runs for the old village harlot???
I had no idea Churchill and Putin grabbed power. Lincoln won a contested Republican convention. Perhaps the Chinese Communist party did grab power. It's open to debate.
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Nobody on nipate.org has denied tribalism, and specifically GEMA tribalism, as an issue in Kenya whenever it has been raised. There simply has been nothing to debate.
I only pointed out why I think the purpose is different in Kenya. Not so much to favor GEMA as to create the animosity such as we see in Omollo's points.
In that context, Omollo's approach and subsequent reaction are just odd. One has to think he is responding to some trolls on .com but using this forum. But the trolls are there, not here.
I know, and I wasn't being entirely serious in the way I dragged in your 20 buddies. My basic point was this: there are a lot of "perception problems", and I think some of that could be changed if more of what "detractors" might consider "the good guys" spoke up a bit more.
My basic take on Omollo's views---whether or not we take them as intentional hyperbole---is that that they actually reflect attitudes that are prevalent in many parts of Kenya, and, therefore, it behooves us to take a close look at them. And that can, and should probably, be done quite separately from what Omollo says.
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I will make my comments later.... much later!
Summary:
- The good people of Nyeri, Embu, Meru, Kirinyaga and Murang’a will soon be using dual carriage highways.
- Like many development projects, they will be the first area in Kenya completely served with such highways, once the existing dual carriageway is extended from Kenol Township, with one arm passing through Murang’a Town and the other to Embu and Meru.
- Reportedly, the lobbying was made easier because the Cabinet Secretary in charge of roads is from Murang’a.
- Aghast and un-amused, Kirinyaga leaders took to the airwaves, publicly threatening to disassociate themselves from the ruling Jubilee coalition if their original plan was changed.
- Their threats worked in a matter of weeks, and rather than shift the dual highway, two roads will now be built instead!
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By Maina Kiai:
The good people of Nyeri, Embu, Meru, Kirinyaga and Murang’a will soon be using dual carriage highways.
Like many development projects, they will be the first area in Kenya completely served with such highways, once the existing dual carriageway is extended from Kenol Township, with one arm passing through Murang’a Town and the other to Embu and Meru.
The decision to build two arms of the highway came after the original plan to extend the existing highway was amended so that it would go through Murang’a instead of Kirinyaga.
The change of the plan was precipitated by intense lobbying by Murang’a leaders, who wanted the dual highway to pass through their county and help open up the region.
Reportedly, the lobbying was made easier because the Cabinet Secretary in charge of roads is from Murang’a.
Aghast and un-amused, Kirinyaga leaders took to the airwaves, publicly threatening to disassociate themselves from the ruling Jubilee coalition if their original plan was changed.
Their threats worked in a matter of weeks, and rather than shift the dual highway, two roads will now be built instead!
How lucky they are that in a time when funds are scarce, partly from being “eaten” in thieving scandals, they benefit so easily, while others literally watch by the roadside!
WORK HAS ALREADY STARTED
Already the work to extend the dual highway that ends at Kenol Township has begun with clearing of the grounds.
There is no doubt that having good roads opens up areas, making transport of people and goods much faster, and also increasing the value of property near the highway.
Just ask the residents around the Thika Superhighway. Once sleepy towns and urban centres have been transformed by this 12-lane superhighway, complete with its “barabara za gorofa”.
So much so, that massive malls have been constructed along the highway, and apartment buildings have come up to cope with the increasing demand for housing for people working in Nairobi for whom the trip into the city is now much faster than for many parts of Nairobi that are much closer in.
By extending the dual carriageway up to Nyeri, Murang’a and Meru - via Kirinyaga and Embu - these areas will be similarly transformed, increasing development and incomes for the residents along the way.
Now, remember that there is no place in Kenya better served with tarmac roads than Othaya, where small feeder roads are all tarmac, with only the driveways into homes and farms left without tarmac.
Even Nairobi residents would be envious!
Don’t get me wrong: The people in this Mt Kenya region deserve good roads. But then, so do the people living in Kisumu, Kericho, Busia, Eldoret and Kisii.
And so do the people in Wajir, Mombasa, Kilifi, Kwale, Trans Mara, Isiolo and Turkana.
In fact, why is there no 12-lane highway serving the busy and crucial Mombasa to Kisumu to Busia and Bungoma stretch?
I bet that no amount of threats, lobbying, or public pressure from their local leaders will bring dual carriageways any time soon!
TRIBALISM
And therein lies the crux of the problem of this regime: By consistently favouring the Mt Kenya region, their rhetoric of “one nation” without tribalism is hollow.
This creates resentment among other Kenyans, and inevitably means that tribalism is injected into election campaigns. Clearly there are benefits when the presidency is held by a homeboy!
Let it not be said that it is the “others” injecting tribalism into elections, development or governance. No, that has been and is being done by this regime itself, and quite openly, too. It is the infamous “mta do?” attitude.
No amount of words castigating tribalism, re-iterating that we are one nation or claims of a meritocracy can change the substance of their actions.
And this is not just about roads, it is also about appointments to public office where it seems that the only people with merit come from two communities with one way more favoured than the other between the two who are “eating.”
So if the next elections turn on claims of tribalism, let it be clear that it is this regime that has accelerated and intensified tribalism, making the “bad marriage” that is Kenya into an abusive one.
mkiai2000@yahoo.com
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Skewed-plans-for-highways-and-denying-tribalism-claims/-/440808/3161292/-/shain7/-/index.html
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Omollo
What do you think of FILIBUSTER as a means to assure consensus and equity in government decisions? In the US, North Ireland and other democracies, there is a requirement that for a motion to pass, it must be supported by both an overall majority and 10% from the minority to survive a veto if contested. For instance when the GOP threatened to scuttle the Iran Nuclear Deal, Senate Democrats thwarted them by garnering 40+ votes (out of 100).
Filibuster helps to deal with majority dictatorship on divisive matters. It is a minority veto equal to the presidential veto. In Northern Ireland it was instituted to help maintain peace between Catholics and Protestants. In the UK England has a veto called EVEL because they do not have a devolved parliament.
In Kenya CORD would need to gather 140 Opposition-only votes to veto Jubilee motions in the National Assembly.
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Walking the talk: Is it not Kibaki who rejected the entire country that voted for him and opted for his village? A guy who tongazas a national belle who turns up willing but he zips it up and runs for the old village harlot??
GROSS!
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Interesting. Would certainly make Duale job harder.
Omollo
What do you think of FILIBUSTER as a means to assure consensus and equity in government decisions? In the US, North Ireland and other democracies, there is a requirement that for a motion to pass, it must be supported by both an overall majority and 10% from the minority to survive a veto if contested. For instance when the GOP threatened to scuttle the Iran Nuclear Deal, Senate Democrats thwarted them by garnering 40+ votes (out of 100).
Filibuster helps to deal with majority dictatorship on divisive matters. It is a minority veto equal to the presidential veto. In Northern Ireland it was instituted to help maintain peace between Catholics and Protestants. In the UK England has a veto called EVEL because they do not have a devolved parliament.
In Kenya CORD would need to gather 140 Opposition-only votes to veto Jubilee motions in the National Assembly.
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Robina
I will accept the deviation and engage.
The idea is wonderful but sadly not much different from similar checks and balances imposed by our new constitution. When one examines each and every one of the provisions in the constitution it emerges that those who wrote it assumed that elected and appointed officials will be honorable and well, gentlemen and gentlewomen of integrity. Nothing was put in place just in case the gentlemen and gentlewomen turned out to be hoodlums with zero principles.
Now you can enact all manner of well meaning legislation, as long as we celebrate the lack of values and principles in our politicians, they will find a way of circumventing the the best of laws.
If you go go to Mslani.com and search Omollo's posts on security laws, I did my service to the Fatherland by simplifying the proposed Uhuru Kenyatta amendments and the implication on years of the struggle to free Kenyans from dictatorship. You will notice that NOT a single confessed GEMA - whether avowed Supremacist or not - opposed the amendments! Instead you will find near sighted idiots among them pillorying me for simply elucidating on the proposed amendments that were so opaque I had to pull every string to get copies.
So it is not just the MNAs and Senators that would frustrate your laws. Uhuru is busy doing what his father before him did - tearing the Constitution - and his tribesmen as cheering him on.
In that same thread, you will find that I dug up lists of detainees who had suffered under laws similar to the ones Uhuru wanted to bring back. Majority were Kikuyu and Luo. That made no impression on anybody - even when an MP plagiarized me and took it to parliament.
How come Uhuru Kenyatta appoints Opposition MPs to the cabinet without reference to their parties? Assuming we had the parliamentary system that you are preaching for and a situation arose where Opposition and Government strengths were near balanced. Would such a move not have far reaching consequences - whether the poaching is by government or Opposition?
Good laws are easily wasted on wild animals!
Omollo
What do you think of FILIBUSTER as a means to assure consensus and equity in government decisions? In the US, North Ireland and other democracies, there is a requirement that for a motion to pass, it must be supported by both an overall majority and 10% from the minority to survive a veto if contested. For instance when the GOP threatened to scuttle the Iran Nuclear Deal, Senate Democrats thwarted them by garnering 40+ votes (out of 100).
Filibuster helps to deal with majority dictatorship on divisive matters. It is a minority veto equal to the presidential veto. In Northern Ireland it was instituted to help maintain peace between Catholics and Protestants. In the UK England has a veto called EVEL because they do not have a devolved parliament.
In Kenya CORD would need to gather 140 Opposition-only votes to veto Jubilee motions in the National Assembly.
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Do not take it literally. It is an analogy expressing what Kibaki did. He rejected the entire country and opted for his villagers through skewed appointments and tribal policies.
I see Uhuru doing the same: He pretends to aid Mumias when in fact he is paying fat cats who supplied Mumias with goods at over inflated prices. He sold off Pan Paper for 900M yet the land on which it stands and all the movable assets are valued at 15B
The Farmers in Mumias will continue delivering sugarcane valued at 250K and taking home a payslip and no cash. How is that a solution? In Central however, cooperative loans for individual farmers are cleared so that the farmer can make new ones for Uhuru to again write off. Such hard working farmers that Pundit heaped praise upon.
If I were a Kikuyu farmer, why would I even plant anything with that kind of arrangement? I would collect the inputs provided on "loan" then sell them all and wait for the next bailout from "lazy" tax payers
Walking the talk: Is it not Kibaki who rejected the entire country that voted for him and opted for his village? A guy who tongazas a national belle who turns up willing but he zips it up and runs for the old village harlot??
GROSS!
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Nobody on nipate.org has denied tribalism, and specifically GEMA tribalism, as an issue in Kenya whenever it has been raised. There simply has been nothing to debate.
I only pointed out why I think the purpose is different in Kenya. Not so much to favor GEMA as to create the animosity such as we see in Omollo's points.
In that context, Omollo's approach and subsequent reaction are just odd. One has to think he is responding to some trolls on .com but using this forum. But the trolls are there, not here.
I know, and I wasn't being entirely serious in the way I dragged in your 20 buddies. My basic point was this: there are a lot of "perception problems", and I think some of that could be changed if more of what "detractors" might consider "the good guys" spoke up a bit more.
My basic take on Omollo's views---whether or not we take them as intentional hyperbole---is that that they actually reflect attitudes that are prevalent in many parts of Kenya, and, therefore, it behooves us to take a close look at them. And that can, and should probably, be done quite separately from what Omollo says.
The good guys speak out. But nobody on either side pays attention. If we were to start keeping tabs, some will be surprised.
I see attitudes as something only education and exposure can change. The wrong type of exposure can also harden them. That is why the "good guys" from both sides don't have to wait for their counterparts to speak up.
Taking a machete and lopping off heads can release some testosterone, initially, but is generally of limited use, if Rwanda, CAR, the South Sudan employment dispute, are anything to go by.
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37. Every person has the right, peaceably and unarmed, to assemble, to demonstrate, to picket, and to present petitions to public authorities.
Five Jubilee MPs have moved to court to stop opposition alliance Cord’s planned protest outside Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission offices every Monday.
The MP s are seeking orders to stop Cord leader Raila Odinga and his co-principals Kalonzo Musyoka and Moses Wetang’ula from staging the protest to seek the removal of IEBC top officials.
The lawmakers want the High Court to stop the opposition leaders from storming IEBC offices and intimidating its commissioners.
High Court Judge Isaac Lenaola on Thursday directed the MPs to advertise the suit in local newspapers and serve the respondents.
The legislators are Ferdinand Waititu (Kabete), Moses Kuria (Gatundu South), Kimani Ichung’wa (Kikuyu), Alice Ng'ang'a (Thika Town) Dennis Waweru (Dogoreti South).
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/MPs-sue-Cord-leaders-over-protest/-/1056/3180320/-/y32b2r/-/index.html
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RVT
Uhuru got more votes in Nyanza than Raila got in Central.
We will need nos. for that claim and don't try to include Kuria East and West constituencies and Kiisi and Nyamira Counties
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Ngai fafa!
http://trendinginkenya.com/nakuru-woman-who-sleeps-with-dead-men-for-money/
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Ngai fafa!
http://trendinginkenya.com/nakuru-woman-who-sleeps-with-dead-men-for-money/
Yeah, even I was surprised when I found Kate Vovic (formerly know as Ciku Muiruri) is well know for faking stories:
PHOTOS OF KATE VOBIC BEHIND HERO RADIO FAKE STORIES.INCLUDING WOMAN WHO SLEEPS WITH DEAD!! (http://trendinginkenya.com/photos-of-kate-vobic-behind-hero-radio-fake-stories-including-woman-who-sleeps-with-dead/) (Interestingly enough, from the same website you linked published just a couple of days after. :D
REVEALED! – Meet Kate Vobic, The Lady Behind That Fake ‘Sex With Dead Men’ Story on Hero Radio (http://nairobiwire.com/2015/11/revealed-meet-kate-vobic-the-lady-behind-that-fake-sex-with-dead-men-story-on-hero-radio.html)
Here she is:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Wudt8KEKuM/UWG88dLYERI/AAAAAAAAUlg/M3XbSPmW12E/s1600/ciku+muiruri+busted.jpeg)
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I don't know if you realize it but it makes zero difference.
Ngai fafa!
http://trendinginkenya.com/nakuru-woman-who-sleeps-with-dead-men-for-money/
Yeah, even I was surprised when I found Kate Vovic (formerly know as Ciku Muiruri) is well know for faking stories:
PHOTOS OF KATE VOBIC BEHIND HERO RADIO FAKE STORIES.INCLUDING WOMAN WHO SLEEPS WITH DEAD!! (http://trendinginkenya.com/photos-of-kate-vobic-behind-hero-radio-fake-stories-including-woman-who-sleeps-with-dead/) (Interestingly enough, from the same website you linked published just a couple of days after. :D
REVEALED! – Meet Kate Vobic, The Lady Behind That Fake ‘Sex With Dead Men’ Story on Hero Radio (http://nairobiwire.com/2015/11/revealed-meet-kate-vobic-the-lady-behind-that-fake-sex-with-dead-men-story-on-hero-radio.html)
Here she is:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Wudt8KEKuM/UWG88dLYERI/AAAAAAAAUlg/M3XbSPmW12E/s1600/ciku+muiruri+busted.jpeg)
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I don't know if you realize it but it makes zero difference.
Zero difference to what, if you please?
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Is that the Armenian brothers? What's the date on these photos?
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Is that the Armenian brothers? What's the date on these photos?
Yup, that's them in all their thieving Kibaki-supporting splendor, in 2005.
Here's the video:
She's quite....odd.
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She's a govt mouthpiece. Thanks for exposing.
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She's a govt mouthpiece. Thanks for exposing.
Not really.
She's more of a wanna-be socialite and media diva. Thinks she's the hottest thing to hit the Kenyan media since...well...something or another.
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This thread crossed the red line.
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This thread crossed the red line.
Be specific and state what line it crossed.