Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Globalcitizen12 on March 20, 2016, 06:44:41 AM
-
what a sad story of single mother dying because of poverty leaving 3 kids to a grandmother. Obama care kids is recruited to activism at age of 7 year
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html
-
what a sad story of single mother dying because of poverty leaving 3 kids to a grandmother. Obama care kids is recruited to activism at age of 7 year
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html)
Obamacare was a cynical response to a real problem. Obama scores his political points for his legacy, and it's business as usual for the real culprits behind the criminally expensive healthcare in this country. Health insurance for the same benefits is actually now more expensive. Obama has disappointed a lot of people. Michael Moore said that when all is said and done, history will recall Obama as the first African American President and nothing more.
-
what a sad story of single mother dying because of poverty leaving 3 kids to a grandmother. Obama care kids is recruited to activism at age of 7 year
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html)
Obamacare was a cynical response to a real problem. Obama scores his political points for his legacy, and it's business as usual for the real culprits behind the criminally expensive healthcare in this country. Health insurance for the same benefits is actually now more expensive. Obama has disappointed a lot of people. Michael Moore said that when all is said and done, history will recall Obama as the first African American President and nothing more.
healthcare in this country is a mess. I am about to fight with my dentist. Because the guy had given me a certain estimate for an implant but now it seems he only gave me his side of cost and I have to go and dole more money to another general dentist for a crown. This Ahole has not even been upfront on how many procedures/visits this implant entails. So he will schedule something and all suden he is ordering xrays and asking if I am ready for more surgery. Bottomline Obamacare allowed the doctors and pharma to continue with the party
-
Congress made the insurance more expensive because they don't want to fix whatever is wrong with it. So, Its not Obamacare that's a problem.
-
what a sad story of single mother dying because of poverty leaving 3 kids to a grandmother. Obama care kids is recruited to activism at age of 7 year
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html)
Obamacare was a cynical response to a real problem. Obama scores his political points for his legacy, and it's business as usual for the real culprits behind the criminally expensive healthcare in this country. Health insurance for the same benefits is actually now more expensive. Obama has disappointed a lot of people. Michael Moore said that when all is said and done, history will recall Obama as the first African American President and nothing more.
healthcare in this country is a mess. I am about to fight with my dentist. Because the guy had given me a certain estimate for an implant but now it seems he only gave me his side of cost and I have to go and dole more money to another general dentist for a crown. This Ahole has not even been upfront on how many procedures/visits this implant entails. So he will schedule something and all suden he is ordering xrays and asking if I am ready for more surgery. Bottomline Obamacare allowed the doctors and pharma to continue with the party
It's a scam. There is also the drug prescription epidemic; a doctor's visit in the US reminds me of taking a car to a mechanic; they will always find something wrong that needs urgent fixing, even if you just drove it in from the dealership. They will draw your blood, run some tests on it and try to convince you that are sick and you must take certain drugs, even when you feel perfectly fine.
I had to leave a doctor who tried to get me into some medication regimen, that would have me go back for further tests every few months, and found one who was fine as long as I didn't feel sick and just altered my diet.
To be fair, I respect doctors' opinions and will take drugs, and vaccines when clearly warranted. I just cannot sign onto taking drugs with known side effects merely on the basis of marginally reducing the risk of something that might or might not happen.
-
As much as I hate drugs, I hate the effects of preventable illnesses like stroke, or kidney diseases, heart failure, all caused by elevated blood pressure.
-
US healthcare is totally and completely broken. I have US medical insurance (job provided) and I was suprised that average cost of giving birth in US is 2M kshs (20,000USD). That is insane. In kenya the most expensive is maybe 3K USD otherwise you can give birth for free in gov ran hospital.
US must stop overpaying their doctors, nurses and pharma; they have to come up with some caps for how much a doctor can levy.
-
US healthcare is totally and completely broken. I have US medical insurance (job provided) and I was suprised that average cost of giving birth in US is 2M kshs (20,000USD). That is insane. In kenya the most expensive is maybe 3K USD otherwise you can give birth for free in gov ran hospital.
US must stop overpaying their doctors, nurses and pharma; they have to come up with some caps for how much a doctor can levy.
Am not sure that that's a good comparison:
If you simply go by the raw figures, then most things are more "expensive" in the USA---costs are "higher", salaries are "higher", etc.
If you by costs relative to income, then it is the Kenyan system that is totally and completely broken. This has been shown in numerous studies, such as this one:
http://www.healthpolicyproject.com/index.cfm?id=publications&get=pubID&pubId=522
On top that, and ignoring the quality of care that sends many running to India, I note reports such as this recent one in the Daily Nation:
The shocking revelation that two out of every 10 people seeking the most basic of services such as medical attention are forced to part with a bribe is the clearest indicator of a catastrophic failure in the tactics employed to fight corruption.
...
Despite medical attention being the most sought after service in the country according to the report, 20.7 per cent of those who get sick are asked to averagely part with a Sh1,866 bribe in order to be attended to.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Bribes-you-have-to-pay-to-survive-in-Kenya/-/1056/3125294/-/9sc9bv/-/index.html
That's plenty of broken.
(The figure of USD 20K is interesting. Plenty of people, including Kenyans, who don't have anything like that seem to be procreating quite happily.)
-
The fact that we are comparing US with Kenya (a 3rd world country) shows you how broken down it's health care really is. I think many American are moving to India too and maybe next CUBA/Dubai for affordable medical care. Canada across the border, Britain and most of Europe have decent affordable health care for everyone. US health care system is one big scam. The only beneficiaries are the health care practitioners, insurance companies and pharma in US that are cleaning up their citizen.
The same can be said of US education systems. My boss who graduated in 90 just recently finished paying his student loan. That is nearly 30ys later.
US's health care and college systems is one big ponzi schema.
US healthcare is totally and completely broken. I have US medical insurance (job provided) and I was suprised that average cost of giving birth in US is 2M kshs (20,000USD). That is insane. In kenya the most expensive is maybe 3K USD otherwise you can give birth for free in gov ran hospital.
US must stop overpaying their doctors, nurses and pharma; they have to come up with some caps for how much a doctor can levy.
Am not sure that that's a good comparison:
If you simply go by the raw figures, then most things are more "expensive" in the USA---costs are "higher", salaries are "higher", etc.
If you by costs relative to income, then it is the Kenyan system that is totally and completely broken. This has been shown in numerous studies, such as this one:
http://www.healthpolicyproject.com/index.cfm?id=publications&get=pubID&pubId=522
On top that, and ignoring the quality of care that sends many running to India, I note reports such as this recent one in the Daily Nation:
The shocking revelation that two out of every 10 people seeking the most basic of services such as medical attention are forced to part with a bribe is the clearest indicator of a catastrophic failure in the tactics employed to fight corruption.
...
Despite medical attention being the most sought after service in the country according to the report, 20.7 per cent of those who get sick are asked to averagely part with a Sh1,866 bribe in order to be attended to.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Bribes-you-have-to-pay-to-survive-in-Kenya/-/1056/3125294/-/9sc9bv/-/index.html
That's plenty of broken.
(The figure of USD 20K is interesting. Plenty of people, including Kenyans, who don't have anything like that seem to be procreating quite happily.)
-
healthcare in this country is a mess. I am about to fight with my dentist. Because the guy had given me a certain estimate for an implant but now it seems he only gave me his side of cost and I have to go and dole more money to another general dentist for a crown. This Ahole has not even been upfront on how many procedures/visits this implant entails. So he will schedule something and all suden he is ordering xrays and asking if I am ready for more surgery. Bottomline Obamacare allowed the doctors and pharma to continue with the party
On the basis of the evidence given, I'd say it is your implant guy who is a mess. He should have been upfront with you on the need to go elsewhere for a crown. On the other hand, he might have assumed that you were referred to him by a general dentist, who, presumably would have told you that you would have to return.
In general, things like implants are a tricky matter that I would not use to judge the insurance system: they can be a real need, or they might be "cosmetic" surgery. And they are never cheap. If you take a country such as Canada, which is generally judged to have a good healthcare system, public insurance makes a distinction between a guy who has had a tooth knocked out in a bar-fight and wants to go back to looking good and a guy who has a real need. The situation is similar in a few other places I can think of.
As for Obamacare, if it made insurance available to those who did not have it and would otherwise not have it, then I'd say it's a good thing, even if it has "allowed the doctors and pharma to continue with the party"
-
The fact that we are comparing US with Kenya (a 3rd world country) shows you how broken down it's health care really is.
I wouldn't say that. People can compare whatever they wish, but the mere fact of the comparison should not be taken as an indicator of anything: a judgement to the effect that the USA system is broken should be made on the basis of concrete discussion of the system, not just that it has been compared with that of a 3rd world country.
The same can be said of US education systems. My boss who graduated in 90 just recently finished paying his student loan. That is nearly 30ys later.
Most students in the USA have the option of going to their local state university, which would not be expensive. If your boss did that but has been paying for so long, then (a) he has been making peanuts, or (b) he chose to make very small payments over a very long time. If he went to the Ivy League, then that's a different matter.
There seems to be a lot of discussions lately in the USA about the cost of university education. Still, as I see it, university education in the USA is still largely affordable for most, as long as they are not choosy.
-
We can only compare US with other OECD countries. And on those two counts...health care and university education...you can even compare it to Kenya. There are many decent universities and hospitals in many OECD countries offering the same level of education or health care..but for far cheaper if not entirely free like in most of Scandinavian countries. I think on that note Sanders has a point. US capitalism on critical areas like health care and education need some controls.
These are facts that are just well established..whether you dice it as private or exclusive or ivy...fact is US has a serious student debt loan...on average I think maybe 100K USD...and the same can be said of health care.
And it down to overcharging, over-billing, inflated bills, corruption, and abuse of free market...and that is responsible for the mess US is increasingly finding itself in.
I wouldn't say that. People can compare whatever they wish, but the mere fact of the comparison should not be taken as an indicator of anything: a judgement to the effect that the USA system is broken should be made on the basis of concrete discussion of the system, not just that it has been compared with that of a 3rd world country.
Most students in the USA have the option of going to their local state university, which would not be expensive. If your boss did that but has been paying for so long, then (a) he has been making peanuts, or (b) he chose to make very small payments over a very long time. If he went to the Ivy League, then that's a different matter.
There seems to be a lot of discussions lately in the USA about the cost of university education. Still, as I see it, university education in the USA is still largely affordable for most, as long as they are not choosy.
-
We can only compare US with other OECD countries. And on those two counts...health care and university education...you can even compare it to Kenya. There are many decent universities and hospitals in many OECD countries offering the same level of education or health care..but for far cheaper if not entirely free like in most of Scandinavian countries. I think on that note Sanders has a point. US capitalism on critical areas like health care and education need some controls.
These are facts that are just well established..whether you dice it as private or exclusive or ivy...fact is US has a serious student debt loan...on average I think maybe 100K USD...and the same can be said of health care.
One can compare whatever one wishes to compare; in fact, this little exchange started with you making a comparison between birth-costs in the USA and the same in Kenya. (Whether one should make such comparisons is, of course, another matter.)
On education: I don’t know where you get figures like 100K USD. The latest figures I have seen, even from those moaning about “high” levels of debt, suggest 35K USD in 2015.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/05/08/congratulations-class-of-2015-youre-the-most-indebted-ever-for-now/
(See the figure there for when your boss graduated.)
And everything is relative: Given that the average household income in 2015 was above 70K USD (median above 50K USD), I don’t think that level of student debt is really terrible. (The total outstanding student loans may be considered very high, but that’s hardly surprising with people like your boss taking their sweet time to pay.)
-
Are we in the usual hair splitting territory again? If you think US has no health care or student loan crisis; then there is really no point going on and on on tangential issues.
One can compare whatever one wishes to compare; in fact, this little exchange started with you making a comparison between birth-costs in the USA and the same in Kenya. (Whether one should make such comparisons is, of course, another matter.)
On education: I don’t know where you get figures like 100K USD. The latest figures I have seen, even from those moaning about “high” levels of debt, suggest 35K USD in 2015.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/05/08/congratulations-class-of-2015-youre-the-most-indebted-ever-for-now/
(See the figure there for when your boss graduated.)
And everything is relative: Given that the average household income in 2015 was above 70K USD (median above 50K USD), I don’t think that level of student debt is really terrible.
-
Are we in the usual hair splitting territory again? If you think US has no health care or student loan crisis; then there is really no point going on and on on tangential issues.
I wouldn’t call it splitting hairs; I am just trying to have an objective view, based on numbers ... hardly what one should consider "tangential issues". But you are right that I don’t consider it a crisis. One can always argue that things are bad or even really bad, but that doesn’t necessarily make them so. But all those and “crisis” are relative terms: some people on my street sometimes declare a crisis when there’s a storm and their garbage doesn’t get collected for the week.
Try this exercise: You stated (even if implicitly) that Canada, the UK, etc. have the sort of healthcare systems that do the job. Go to Google and type "healthcare crisis in X" (X = Canada, the UK, etc.). Read what they have to say about their systems.
-
i agree with you. Its relative. For me Obamacare reduced my copays significantly.
Are we in the usual hair splitting territory again? If you think US has no health care or student loan crisis; then there is really no point going on and on on tangential issues.
I wouldn’t call it splitting hairs; I am just trying to have an objective view, based on numbers ... hardly what one should consider "tangential issues". But you are right that I don’t consider it a crisis. One can always argue that things are bad or even really bad, but that doesn’t necessarily make them so. But all those and “crisis” are relative terms: some people on my street sometimes declare a crisis when there’s a storm and their garbage doesn’t get collected for the week.
Try this exercise: You stated (even if implicitly) that Canada, the UK, etc. have the sort of healthcare systems that do the job. Go to Google and type "healthcare crisis in X" (X = Canada, the UK, etc.). Read what they have to say about their systems.
-
USA healthcare is very expensive. Right now most family plans are going for about $9k. Someone needs to address the cost of healthcare trim the unnecessary defensive medicine being practiced today. Create a standard pricing that is not dictated by the obscure opaque Medicare pricing.
No need to use Technology for no reason but to increase ancillary billing
-
what a sad story of single mother dying because of poverty leaving 3 kids to a grandmother. Obama care kids is recruited to activism at age of 7 year
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/18/health/obamacare-kid-transgender/index.html)
Obamacare was a cynical response to a real problem. Obama scores his political points for his legacy, and it's business as usual for the real culprits behind the criminally expensive healthcare in this country. Health insurance for the same benefits is actually now more expensive. Obama has disappointed a lot of people. Michael Moore said that when all is said and done, history will recall Obama as the first African American President and nothing more.
healthcare in this country is a mess. I am about to fight with my dentist. Because the guy had given me a certain estimate for an implant but now it seems he only gave me his side of cost and I have to go and dole more money to another general dentist for a crown. This Ahole has not even been upfront on how many procedures/visits this implant entails. So he will schedule something and all suden he is ordering xrays and asking if I am ready for more surgery. Bottomline Obamacare allowed the doctors and pharma to continue with the party
Shitty dentist? Sure. Malpractice? I'm not so sure. Then again I'm not a lawyer.
Based on what you have written it sounds like your dentist is trying to send you to a specialist or an endodontist which is normal. I think what would be a good focus is actually not neglecting your teeth and getting in every 6 months like you are supposed to. Years of not going to the dentist and acting surprised/getting upset when the dentist says something is wrong? Meh. :D