Nipate

Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: msema kweli on February 03, 2016, 10:30:21 AM

Title: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: msema kweli on February 03, 2016, 10:30:21 AM
EUROBOND MONEY TRAIL via @YouTube
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Gumzo on February 03, 2016, 01:39:36 PM
Who made this video ?
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Georgesoros on February 03, 2016, 04:34:54 PM
bandit economy made the video..
The problem with money this days is that its electronically transmitted, so its easy to trace.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Georgesoros on February 03, 2016, 06:04:16 PM
an economy where most feel left out will not progress, thats why USA economy has stagnated. most people go to work to just pay bills. no savings, and lots of debt.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: bryan275 on February 03, 2016, 10:13:35 PM
This is a Tony Blair hatchet job.  Itumbis incompetents cannot produce this kind of work.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 03, 2016, 11:53:05 PM
Has anyone found out why they did not move all the money into the Consolidated Fund?
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Georgesoros on February 04, 2016, 01:17:38 AM
propaganda is real
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 04, 2016, 08:49:03 AM
I think CBK and Treasury have given the explanation for the last 900M dollars. They did a swap. CBK maintain dollar account for forex reserves in Fed Bank of NY and so they bought gov dollars and creditted the consolidated account held in CBK kenya with the same amount.

There is no scandal here.

Has anyone found out why they did not move all the money into the Consolidated Fund?

Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kadudu on February 04, 2016, 03:09:01 PM
BTW, who says the account the 999M dollars was trnaferred to was CBK's account?
On the transfer script from the JP Morgan bank to the Fed bank of NY, the account owner's name wad "redacted".

I think CBK and Treasury have given the explanation for the last 900M dollars. They did a swap. CBK maintain dollar account for forex reserves in Fed Bank of NY and so they bought gov dollars and creditted the consolidated account held in CBK kenya with the same amount.

There is no scandal here.

Has anyone found out why they did not move all the money into the Consolidated Fund?
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 05, 2016, 04:02:57 AM
I think CBK and Treasury have given the explanation for the last 900M dollars. They did a swap. CBK maintain dollar account for forex reserves in Fed Bank of NY and so they bought gov dollars and creditted the consolidated account held in CBK kenya with the same amount.

There is no scandal here.

Has anyone found out why they did not move all the money into the Consolidated Fund?


Controller of budget obviously missed the memo.  Unless there is more than one Consolidated Fund. 

The jury is still out either way.  It would be interesting to see what the Auditor General has to say, once he gathers the courage.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 05, 2016, 10:01:26 AM
When was the memo by Controller of Budget. The Controller of Budget had issues with initial 600MUSD that was paid directly to the syndicated banks who had lend kenya that loan during Kibadinga regime without passing through consolidated account. I think public management act was ammended to allow this and therefore this was legal.

Where is consolidated accounts. It in CBK.

The last 999M dollars was wired to Kenya.How?.

CBK bought gov dollars held in JP Morgan and transferred it to their dollar account in Fed Bank of NY. Then they creditted Consolidated account in their vaults in Kenya with similar amount in KSHs.

Why does CBK have dollar account in Fed Bank of US...it where forex are kept..when you sent money to kenya...USD doesn't get shipped here...it get bought..and equivalent Kshs is credited to your relatives account in Kenya.

Unless you wanted the money shipped in literally..there is no scandal here.

Finally you might want to ask...why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

Simple. There are times when CBK goes out to market to buy or sell dollars...to intervene on forex market and try to maintain USD-Kshs exchange rate....and it happens that CBK on that time...were out shopping to buy dollars..and they simply bought treasury dollars...and credited the Kshs consolidated account with money.




Controller of budget obviously missed the memo.  Unless there is more than one Consolidated Fund. 

The jury is still out either way.  It would be interesting to see what the Auditor General has to say, once he gathers the courage.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 05, 2016, 06:56:36 PM
When was the memo by Controller of Budget. The Controller of Budget had issues with initial 600MUSD that was paid directly to the syndicated banks who had lend kenya that loan during Kibadinga regime without passing through consolidated account. I think public management act was ammended to allow this and therefore this was legal.

Where is consolidated accounts. It in CBK.

The last 999M dollars was wired to Kenya.How?.

CBK bought gov dollars held in JP Morgan and transferred it to their dollar account in Fed Bank of NY. Then they creditted Consolidated account in their vaults in Kenya with similar amount in KSHs.

Why does CBK have dollar account in Fed Bank of US...it where forex are kept..when you sent money to kenya...USD doesn't get shipped here...it get bought..and equivalent Kshs is credited to your relatives account in Kenya.

Unless you wanted the money shipped in literally..there is no scandal here.

Finally you might want to ask...why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

Simple. There are times when CBK goes out to market to buy or sell dollars...to intervene on forex market and try to maintain USD-Kshs exchange rate....and it happens that CBK on that time...were out shopping to buy dollars..and they simply bought treasury dollars...and credited the Kshs consolidated account with money.




Controller of budget obviously missed the memo.  Unless there is more than one Consolidated Fund. 

The jury is still out either way.  It would be interesting to see what the Auditor General has to say, once he gathers the courage.
The $999 million indeed gets transferred Kenya.  Converted to Kenya Shillings like all the rest.  I see nothing to suggest otherwise.  No dispute there, unless I am missing something.

The CBK was asked to move the $999 million, Sept 1st 2014, by the treasury to the Sovereign Bond Account at CBK which is in Kenya Shillings.  You can see here (https://www.scribd.com/doc/298130281/Swift-Messages-Regarding-Eurobond-Proceeds) that it(pg 7) is not the same account that the $395 million(pg 2) ends up in.  This is why I was wondering if there is more than one Consolidated Fund.

It is also possible to see why the Controller of Budget did not report the $999 million receipt as indeed she does not.  I don't see anything about which account the $815 milllion goes to, but I am assuming it is somewhere where the Controller of Budget could see it and report its receipt as she did.

There may be an entirely innocent explanation.  No scandal.  But when one sees a misleading video clip like the one shared by Msema Kweli and the tedious Obienga like run-arounds the treasury is willing to put out there rather than acknowledge and explain why they had to go around the law, alarm bells go off, even if it may not be clear what else is amiss.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: MOON Ki on February 05, 2016, 10:28:03 PM
Why does CBK have dollar account in Fed Bank of US...it where forex are kept..when you sent money to kenya...USD doesn't get shipped here...it get bought..and equivalent Kshs is credited to your relatives account in Kenya.

Unless you wanted the money shipped in literally..there is no scandal here.

That might be so when money is sent to a relative, but let us note that:

(1) Not all CBK forex (US$ in this case) is held overseas (Federal Reserve Bank in the case of dollars).   You can go to CBK right now and find a lot of forex there.

(2) The Federal Reserve routinely ships (literally) large amounts of dollar bills to overseas destinations.   

But all that is a "by the by".   Let's get to the main point:

Quote
Finally you might want to ask...why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

Simple. There are times when CBK goes out to market to buy or sell dollars...to intervene on forex market and try to maintain USD-Kshs exchange rate....and it happens that CBK on that time...were out shopping to buy dollars..and they simply bought treasury dollars...and credited the Kshs consolidated account with money.

I have read several versions of this.   I wish I could find one in understandable English.   It is yet just another fuddle in a new version of Treasury's confusing explanations.   

You ask:

Quote
why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

What does it mean to "wire some money directly" to the CBK?    By your own account, which, for the most part is largely correct, the foreign currency stays overseas and a local account somehow gets credited.   What exactly do you think happened to the $395 million from he main sale and $815 million from the tap sale?   Nobody has raised issues about those.   (I return to this point below.)

Earlier, on this thread:

http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=2823.0

Quote
Second: Has the money has been sitting in those banks all the time?   From what I understand (via what Rotich said), part of the money was used to pay a US$ syndicated loan and the rest (most of it) was transferred to CBK and then dished out to ministries, for "development projects".    So it seems to me that even if the trail starts with the "named banks", as indeed it should and must, the real place anyone ought to be looking is CBK and elsewhere in Kenya.

On the $999 million, the main question I would be asking is not why it was not "transferred" in the same manner as the rest.   I would instead ask why it was sitting in a J P Morgan account for two months+.

But let's also take a closer look at the overall picture, and maybe RV Pundit can remove some confusion that ordinary folk, of which I am one, might have.

Treasury has been selling a line that has led many people to believe something like this:

* $395 million from the main sale got transferred to Kenya, or, as RV Pundit puts it, it was directly wired to CBK.

* $999 million from the main sale got transferred to the Federal Reserve.

* $815 million from the tap sale got transferred to Kenya, or, as RV Pundit puts it, it was directly wired to CBK.

and so people have been asking why the $999 million was "not transferred to Kenya", whatever that means.

Now, as a matter of fact, all of the money initially ended up in the Federal Reserve.  It was simply transferred between J P Morgan & Citibank accounts and CBK account there.     CBK then transferred some shillings into Treasury's account locally.

So, the explanation for the $999 million is that CBK bought dollars and paid Treasury in shillings.   Why, with all the hullaballoo that has been raised this "explanation" has taken such a while is not clear, but I'll give it  this: the extent to which it has been accepted shows that it is a "better" one that the rest.   Still, the question that will arise in some minds is this: By what means did CBK give Treasury the equivalent of the other $395 million and $815 million?  (Nobody transferred the shillings from New York to Nairobi.) Where did the equivalent shillings come from, and why was the source different for the other $999 million? 

In other words the "explanation" for the "special handling" of the $999 million requires some explanation.   

There is also another question that now seems to have been forgotten about the $999 million.  I hope that too can now be clarified as we consider the source of the money transferred to Treasury.    This is about an amount of Sh. 140 billion that appears in various papers:

* First Treasury showed it as "local borrowing".

* When somebody noted that that would leave that amount missing on the "domestic borrowing" side, somebody went back to the Treasury papers and added a footnote stating that it was shown as "domestic" but it was really Eurobond.

* Then it was pointed out that if it was domestic borrowing, then there was, again, that amount missing on the foreign side.   So, which was it, domestic or foreign?

* Treasury then absurdly claimed that it was simultaneously both foreign and domestic, that such accounting was proper and claimed that IMF had done just that with the money.   (As I noted on the other Eurobond thread, the IMF document that Treasury claimed in support stated the opposite.)

So, yes, Treasury does get credited with certain amounts that look right.    But money appears to be missing, or not, depending on what one takes as the sources.  Was money stolen?  I really have no idea.   But the "explanations" have certainly been more confusing that clarifying.   
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Georgesoros on February 06, 2016, 03:45:16 AM
Mesa Kweli really does tell the truth. Yes, a perverted truth.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 06, 2016, 09:38:59 AM
Moonki,
I think you're just splitting hairs here.
Without going into much details and getting lost, like you've been, just split the transaction into two.

1) Nobody has issues with Eurobond getting into the receiving banks (JP Morgan and Citibank).

2) The issue is how the 2.5 billion USD held in JP Morgan and Citibank were transferred to our national coffers.

And the breakdown can be summarized.

600M - Paid directly to Syndicated banks that had lend us the same amount for financing IEBC kits. This expensive loan was retired. Prudent management by Treasury.

1B or about USD dollars - Wired to Kenya VIA SWIFT (many transactions).Treasury didn't involve CBK here excepts as their bank . We just told JP Morgan to transfer the money via SWIFT to our consolidated account held in CBK. CBK confirmed receipts. Whatever settlement arraignment (debit-credit) btw JP morgan and CBK is irrelevant for now. Isn't why we have SWIFT in the first place?

990M!! - These dollars were bought by CBK  and transferred to FED Reserve banks. We got equivalent of Kshs in our consolidated account held by CBK. Treasury just happened to have dollars and CBK were out shopping for dollars.

FED bank as you well know is only for Central Bankers therefore there is NO possibility the money ended in someone else's account in Cayman Island.So we are safe..money trails wise.

The questions as to why and when treasury move money around their accounts is really the JOB AND DISCRETION of Finance Secretary. I would imagine these are cash flow management issues that treasury grapples with day to day...as they do their job of financing the budget, paying debts and other obligations that come due periodically.

And beside the money that was in JP Morgan and Citibank were in our accounts. They were not JP morgan money to use. They were in offshore accounts opened and operated by the treasury.

The questions as why and when does CBK buy or sell dollars/pounds or hold accounts in FED reserve bank of US or Bank of England or Bank of Japan is really the mandate of CBK.

The queries around the technicalities of how CBK credit our Kshs with "air" money after buying our dollars is the reason we have CBK. You can peep around their balance sheets to get a glimpse of what goes on there...sometimes back CBK made a loss of I think 25B kshs...but to suffice to say CBK is bank like any other but with ability to print money.

The data on domestic borrowing can be cross-checked and cross-referenced from many sources....treasury borrows that money on "open air" market through the floating of t bonds and tbills.

In short, there was no scandal here, except a desparate attempt by people in CORD with very little knowledge trying to confuse the public and smear treasury abroad.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: MOON Ki on February 07, 2016, 03:36:50 AM
1B or about USD dollars - Wired to Kenya VIA SWIFT (many transactions).Treasury didn't involve CBK here excepts as their bank . We just told JP Morgan to transfer the money via SWIFT to our consolidated account held in CBK. CBK confirmed receipts. Whatever settlement arraignment (debit-credit) btw JP Morgan and CBK is irrelevant for now. Isn't why we have SWIFT in the first place?

Huh?   This again?  Where does it come from?    As I pointed out earlier, all the amounts---the $395 million, the $999 million, and the $815 million---all go via the Federal Reserve.    Take a look at the SWIFT transfer bundle provided by Treasury+CBK.   And take a look at the CBK account number involved in all transfers.   Is the Consolidated Fund account in the USA? 

Quote
990M!! - These dollars were bought by CBK  and transferred to FED Reserve banks. We got equivalent of Kshs in our consolidated account held by CBK. Treasury just happened to have dollars and CBK were out shopping for dollars.

With all the three amounts, the CBK gets dollars (which actually belong to Treasury) and pays Treasury in shillings.   The bundles include information to that effect.   The point about this buying of dollars for the $999 million is odd, in that it was not given for the other amounts.  What's the explanation for the other two cases.   We know, and this is confirmed by Treasury's own documents, that your idea of JP Morgan directly transferring the amounts into the Consolidate Fund did not happen.

It is also not correct to say that Treasury just happened to have dollars at a time when CBK were out shopping.   The simple fact is that the Consolidated Fund, being used to fund activities in Kenya, had to have shillings, so those amounts had to be converted.       

Quote
And beside the money that was in JP Morgan and Citibank were in our accounts. They were not JP morgan money to use. They were in offshore accounts opened and operated by the treasury.

One question I asked: why did the $999 million stay in the JP Morgan account for 2 months?   That could have very interesting answers.

Quote
FED bank as you well know is only for Central Bankers therefore there is NO possibility the money ended in someone else's account in Cayman Island.So we are safe..money trails wise.

Sorry, I don't follow the logic here.    Any bank account, whatever the bank, will someone (or two)  is authorized to move money to of from the account.    In the case of the Kenyan Treasury and CBK, the various documents made public tell us who some of them are.    What makes you so sure that those people (or others) could not move money Kenyan money about as they please? 

Quote
The data on domestic borrowing can be cross-checked and cross-referenced from many sources....treasury borrows that money on "open air" market through the floating of t bonds and tbills.

In short, there was no scandal here, except a desparate attempt by people in CORD with very little knowledge trying to confuse the public and smear treasury abroad.

I am simply looking at Treasury's account of the "problematic" Sh. 140 billion.   The explanations move it form foreign borrowing to domestic borrowing, to fill some hole, then back the other way to fill the hole left on that side.  Finally, tired of shuffling between holes, Treasury claims that it is simultaneously domestic and foreign!   And then lies, in writing, about what is in an IMF report, as though people would never bother to look at that.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 09, 2016, 12:02:33 AM
Why does CBK have dollar account in Fed Bank of US...it where forex are kept..when you sent money to kenya...USD doesn't get shipped here...it get bought..and equivalent Kshs is credited to your relatives account in Kenya.

Unless you wanted the money shipped in literally..there is no scandal here.

That might be so when money is sent to a relative, but let us note that:

(1) Not all CBK forex (US$ in this case) is held overseas (Federal Reserve Bank in the case of dollars).   You can go to CBK right now and find a lot of forex there.

(2) The Federal Reserve routinely ships (literally) large amounts of dollar bills to overseas destinations.   

But all that is a "by the by".   Let's get to the main point:

Quote
Finally you might want to ask...why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

Simple. There are times when CBK goes out to market to buy or sell dollars...to intervene on forex market and try to maintain USD-Kshs exchange rate....and it happens that CBK on that time...were out shopping to buy dollars..and they simply bought treasury dollars...and credited the Kshs consolidated account with money.

I have read several versions of this.   I wish I could find one in understandable English.   It is yet just another fuddle in a new version of Treasury's confusing explanations.   

You ask:

Quote
why did treasury wire some money directly to CBK (initial 1billion USD) and why did last 999m not get wired.

What does it mean to "wire some money directly" to the CBK?    By your own account, which, for the most part is largely correct, the foreign currency stays overseas and a local account somehow gets credited.   What exactly do you think happened to the $395 million from he main sale and $815 million from the tap sale?   Nobody has raised issues about those.   (I return to this point below.)

Earlier, on this thread:

http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=2823.0 (http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=2823.0)

Quote
Second: Has the money has been sitting in those banks all the time?   From what I understand (via what Rotich said), part of the money was used to pay a US$ syndicated loan and the rest (most of it) was transferred to CBK and then dished out to ministries, for "development projects".    So it seems to me that even if the trail starts with the "named banks", as indeed it should and must, the real place anyone ought to be looking is CBK and elsewhere in Kenya.

On the $999 million, the main question I would be asking is not why it was not "transferred" in the same manner as the rest.   I would instead ask why it was sitting in a J P Morgan account for two months+.

But let's also take a closer look at the overall picture, and maybe RV Pundit can remove some confusion that ordinary folk, of which I am one, might have.

Treasury has been selling a line that has led many people to believe something like this:

* $395 million from the main sale got transferred to Kenya, or, as RV Pundit puts it, it was directly wired to CBK.

* $999 million from the main sale got transferred to the Federal Reserve.

* $815 million from the tap sale got transferred to Kenya, or, as RV Pundit puts it, it was directly wired to CBK.

and so people have been asking why the $999 million was "not transferred to Kenya", whatever that means.

Now, as a matter of fact, all of the money initially ended up in the Federal Reserve.  It was simply transferred between J P Morgan & Citibank accounts and CBK account there.     CBK then transferred some shillings into Treasury's account locally.

So, the explanation for the $999 million is that CBK bought dollars and paid Treasury in shillings.   Why, with all the hullaballoo that has been raised this "explanation" has taken such a while is not clear, but I'll give it  this: the extent to which it has been accepted shows that it is a "better" one that the rest.   Still, the question that will arise in some minds is this: By what means did CBK give Treasury the equivalent of the other $395 million and $815 million?  (Nobody transferred the shillings from New York to Nairobi.) Where did the equivalent shillings come from, and why was the source different for the other $999 million? 

In other words the "explanation" for the "special handling" of the $999 million requires some explanation.   

There is also another question that now seems to have been forgotten about the $999 million.  I hope that too can now be clarified as we consider the source of the money transferred to Treasury.    This is about an amount of Sh. 140 billion that appears in various papers:

* First Treasury showed it as "local borrowing".

* When somebody noted that that would leave that amount missing on the "domestic borrowing" side, somebody went back to the Treasury papers and added a footnote stating that it was shown as "domestic" but it was really Eurobond.

* Then it was pointed out that if it was domestic borrowing, then there was, again, that amount missing on the foreign side.   So, which was it, domestic or foreign?

* Treasury then absurdly claimed that it was simultaneously both foreign and domestic, that such accounting was proper and claimed that IMF had done just that with the money.   (As I noted on the other Eurobond thread, the IMF document that Treasury claimed in support stated the opposite.)

So, yes, Treasury does get credited with certain amounts that look right.    But money appears to be missing, or not, depending on what one takes as the sources.  Was money stolen?  I really have no idea.   But the "explanations" have certainly been more confusing that clarifying.   
It's true that the $999 million is not moved any differently than the other money.  One can easily confirm that if they have the patience to scan through the tedious documents shared by Treasury itself.  The treasury explanation simply raises more questions.
 
The only verifiable difference is the account the money winds up in; 1000212764 instead of 100003987 like the $395 million. 

The treasury is in the habit of throwing out lots of documents, some of them completely irrelevant to the questions raised, while giving a narrative that is not even supported by the same documents.

They have made the calculation, correctly I believe, that very few people have the time, patience or knowledge to look through those documents. 

It's also remarkable how in Kenya, the politics is so messed up that there is even a debate about whether how public money moves or is spent should be fully accounted for.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 10, 2016, 09:35:25 AM
This now more confusing. I thought we were down to the last 1B that was transferred to Fed Bank and never got to our "shores". This is what happens when folks invent a scandal out of thin air.
1B or about USD dollars - Wired to Kenya VIA SWIFT (many transactions).Treasury didn't involve CBK here excepts as their bank . We just told JP Morgan to transfer the money via SWIFT to our consolidated account held in CBK. CBK confirmed receipts. Whatever settlement arraignment (debit-credit) btw JP Morgan and CBK is irrelevant for now. Isn't why we have SWIFT in the first place?

Huh?   This again?  Where does it come from?    As I pointed out earlier, all the amounts---the $395 million, the $999 million, and the $815 million---all go via the Federal Reserve.    Take a look at the SWIFT transfer bundle provided by Treasury+CBK.   And take a look at the CBK account number involved in all transfers.   Is the Consolidated Fund account in the USA? 

Quote
990M!! - These dollars were bought by CBK  and transferred to FED Reserve banks. We got equivalent of Kshs in our consolidated account held by CBK. Treasury just happened to have dollars and CBK were out shopping for dollars.

With all the three amounts, the CBK gets dollars (which actually belong to Treasury) and pays Treasury in shillings.   The bundles include information to that effect.   The point about this buying of dollars for the $999 million is odd, in that it was not given for the other amounts.  What's the explanation for the other two cases.   We know, and this is confirmed by Treasury's own documents, that your idea of JP Morgan directly transferring the amounts into the Consolidate Fund did not happen.

It is also not correct to say that Treasury just happened to have dollars at a time when CBK were out shopping.   The simple fact is that the Consolidated Fund, being used to fund activities in Kenya, had to have shillings, so those amounts had to be converted.       

Quote
And beside the money that was in JP Morgan and Citibank were in our accounts. They were not JP morgan money to use. They were in offshore accounts opened and operated by the treasury.

One question I asked: why did the $999 million stay in the JP Morgan account for 2 months?   That could have very interesting answers.

Quote
FED bank as you well know is only for Central Bankers therefore there is NO possibility the money ended in someone else's account in Cayman Island.So we are safe..money trails wise.

Sorry, I don't follow the logic here.    Any bank account, whatever the bank, will someone (or two)  is authorized to move money to of from the account.    In the case of the Kenyan Treasury and CBK, the various documents made public tell us who some of them are.    What makes you so sure that those people (or others) could not move money Kenyan money about as they please? 

Quote
The data on domestic borrowing can be cross-checked and cross-referenced from many sources....treasury borrows that money on "open air" market through the floating of t bonds and tbills.

In short, there was no scandal here, except a desparate attempt by people in CORD with very little knowledge trying to confuse the public and smear treasury abroad.

I am simply looking at Treasury's account of the "problematic" Sh. 140 billion.   The explanations move it form foreign borrowing to domestic borrowing, to fill some hole, then back the other way to fill the hole left on that side.  Finally, tired of shuffling between holes, Treasury claims that it is simultaneously domestic and foreign!   And then lies, in writing, about what is in an IMF report, as though people would never bother to look at that.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Higgins the genius on February 14, 2016, 01:05:40 AM
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html)

Pundit how do you answer Ndii?
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 15, 2016, 04:12:20 AM
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html)

Pundit how do you answer Ndii?
Ndii seems to think it is worse than my little knowledge would have allowed.
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 15, 2016, 09:09:32 AM
He just written bunch of nonsense without any evidence to back it up.
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Bankers-spin-a-most-unseemly-yarn-on-Eurobond-cash/-/440808/3074494/-/a3ho1tz/-/index.html)

Pundit how do you answer Ndii?
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: RV Pundit on February 15, 2016, 02:35:41 PM
Now this make senses.
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Eurobond-saga-is-all-about-the-politics-of-corruption/-/440808/3054360/-/8ilax0z/-/index.html
Title: Re: EURO BOND MONEY TRAIL: POLITICAL PUPPETS & THE GRAND PLOT
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on February 15, 2016, 06:46:21 PM
Jason Lakin seems to think the problem runs deeper than just Eurobond.  COB and Treasury numbers don't add up.  They don'tappear to speak the same language either.  He says this has been going on for years.
Quote
Our ongoing debate about the Eurobond highlights a very basic and very old fact: The information provided to Kenyans about how the government uses public money is not transparent.

It would appear that most Kenyans are also struggling to put the Ksh200 billion or so in question in any meaningful context. This suggests that the public has fairly limited engagement with the information that Treasury does make available.

This is a convenient opportunity for us to understand better the Kenyan budget, and to agree on the kind of information we want to be made available in future. This is not a Eurobond issue per se, since Eurobond money is actually fairly small in the grand scheme of things (and much smaller than what the government collects in taxes every year). It is a more fundamental issue in the management of public money.

To elucidate these points, I will rely on two documents from FY 2014/15, both of which are official government sources: The Treasury’s fourth quarter Quarterly Economic and Budget Review and the annual report from the Controller of Budget.

The most basic question we should want to ask about FY 2014/15 is how much money we spent. Unfortunately, the Controller has two different figures for this amount in the annual report: Ksh1.602 trillion and Ksh1.632 trillion. The Treasury report has a third figure for total spending: Ksh1.616 trillion. Those differences are fairly small, but unexplained.

Let’s turn to development spending, where the differences are more substantial. According to the COB report, Kenya spent Ksh319 billion on development in 2014/15. According to the Treasury, that number was Ksh508 billion. However, the Treasury’s report also suggests elsewhere that total development spending was only Ksh408 billion. These are pretty massive discrepancies.

Obviously, given that the differences on the development side are very large, but the differences in total spending are fairly small, there must also be other differences in the categories of spending, such as recurrent. Indeed, there are.

COB says recurrent spending was Ksh1.055 trillion, while the Treasury says it was Ksh839 billion. The other main category of spending is the transfer to counties, which was Ksh229 billion (or Ksh258 billion, if you include conditional grants). County spending is more or less agreed across the two sources.

What explains these differences between the recurrent and development figures? Recurrent spending consists mainly of two things: Spending on ministries and spending on what are called “consolidated fund services” (CFS), mostly debt payments and pensions.

COB says we spent Ksh604 billion on ministries and Ksh432 billion on CFS. Treasury says we spent Ksh664 billion on ministries and Ksh210 billion on interest payments and pensions. I can’t explain these differences.

On the development side, there are also only two main items: Funding from the Treasury, and funding from “Appropriations in Aid” (AIA). AIA is funding that comes from donors directly to ministries and projects rather than to Treasury. Here there are major discrepancies again both within and across the reports. COB reports Ksh319 billion in development spending but only Ksh270 billion in exchequer issues. Normally, this would imply that there were about Ksh50 billion in AIA (that did not pass through the exchequer).

The same report has a figure of Ksh61.8 billion for development AIA in one place, and a figure of Ksh5 billion elsewhere. If that weren’t bad enough, the report has a total AIA figure elsewhere of Ksh206billion and Ksh13 billion of this as recurrent AIA, which is always a minority, leaving a balance for development AIA of Ksh193 billion. Using this figure, however, COB’s estimates of total expenditure would be much higher than the Ksh1.63 trillion mentioned earlier.

None of these match the Treasury’s own figures for development AIA, which seems to be Ksh233 billion (although Treasury also splits AIA into several types in different places, and adding these together yields Ksh240 billion).

The part of the development budget funded through the exchequer is also different between the different sources, but is much closer: Treasury estimates it at about Ksh273 billion, while I estimate COB’s figure is closer to Ksh257 (though it depends which AIA figure you believe).

This suggests that the main difference on the development side is the amount of AIA. COB does mention that they do not get good reports on AIA from ministries, which could explain why they have much lower numbers.

So, in summary: COB has the government spending more on debt repayment, and receiving and spending less in donor funding than Treasury. The differences are in the hundreds of billions and, after several hours of reviewing, I am still not sure what the causes of these differences are. And these are, every quarter and every year, the official sources of information on budget implementation in Kenya.

We have bigger problems than just the Eurobond, folks.

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/OpEd/comment/Mystified-by-Eurobond-figures-we-have-problems-with-budget-spend/-/434750/3065016/-/1wym1c/-/index.html