Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on November 18, 2015, 05:17:21 PM
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To Push the African way. You cannot bribe, intimidate, kill, and otherwise eliminate witnesses and not reap the benefits.
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/asp-adopts-kenyas-agenda-rule-68-icc-witness-procurement-audit
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUBEO6_UwAAIdpq.jpg:large)
The ASP has adopted Kenya's agenda on the application of Rule 68 to the DP's ICC case and the audit of the recanted witness identification and recruitment process.
Kenya had asked the Assembly of States Parties to address the use of recanted witness statements in revisiting discussions on Rule 68, that were conducted at its meeting two years ago.
Kenya does not want the rule, which allows use of the evidence, applied in DP William Ruto and journalist Joshua Sang's cases, in line with an agreement reached during the ASP's 2013 session.
The ICC said victim participation is an important aspect of court proceedings and that "justice must be meaningful for those to whom it matters most.
- See more at: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/asp-adopts-kenyas-agenda-rule-68-icc-witness-procurement-audit#sthash.DjXHSy9s.dpuf
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Rachel omamo is there too for defence is this war or a legal issue and an individual challenge http://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Ruto-case-on-agenda-as-ICC-talks-kick-off/-/1950946/2962218/-/format/xhtml/-/dqyuscz/-/index.html
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Rachel omamo is there too for defence is this war or a legal issue and an individual challenge http://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Ruto-case-on-agenda-as-ICC-talks-kick-off/-/1950946/2962218/-/format/xhtml/-/dqyuscz/-/index.html (http://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Ruto-case-on-agenda-as-ICC-talks-kick-off/-/1950946/2962218/-/format/xhtml/-/dqyuscz/-/index.html)
If Magufuli is to learn of this he will wail like a widow bereaved.
I find the current push against Rule 68 interesting. For it to be meaningful in the hustler's case, Oga Chile Eboe Osuji seems to suggest that Kenya should also push for the repeal of article 69(3), if I understand a reading of his partly concurring opinion correctly.
Article 69(3)
The parties may submit evidence relevant to the case, in accordance with article 64. The Court shall have the authority to request the submission of all evidence that it considers necessary for the determination of the truth.
Removing this would prevent the court from requesting and considering any evidence relevant to the case and then end it with immediate effect. Perhaps the wording could be changed in such a way that it only applies to the hustler's case, but not any others in the future.
Here is his opinion.
2. I differ with my highly esteemed colleagues in three notable respects. First, I do not share the view that the new r 68 applies. Indeed, in my view, r 68 does not apply in any of its generations. Article 69(3) is the more appropriate provision. Second, in my view, the out-ofcourt statements of all [REDACTED]—including [REDACTED]—should be admitted and considered for the truth of their contents, because of the same basic considerations. But, finally, as regards the witnesses who had appeared and testified before the Chamber, there is a limitation as to the extent to which their out-of-court statements will be considered for the truth of their contents. And it is only to the extent that they have already been admitted onto the record for purposes of assessing the credibility of those witnesses in the context of the Prosecution's application to declare them hostile.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc2038657.pdf
https://www.icc-cpi.int/nr/rdonlyres/ea9aeff7-5752-4f84-be94-0a655eb30e16/0/rome_statute_english.pdf
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The lady is performing at the ASP session right now. She boldly stated that dealing with the ICC is the biggest national challenge that Kenya faces and has had to deal with. Really.
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The lady is performing at the ASP session right now. She boldly stated that dealing with the ICC is the biggest national challenge that Kenya faces and has had to deal with. Really.
I believe she is right. It challenges the national culture of impunity in a way no institution back in Kenya was ever willing to or capable of. In this culture, crimes attributed to certain individuals are expected to be ventilated on if at all, perhaps in the media, political platforms or judicial charades, and then people move on.
ICC, was largely expected to begin this process 99 years in the future. The hustler would be in his 130s or 140s. That was the script. Despite the weaknesses of the case, the mere possibility that they can make a decision beyond the influence of the Kenyan mafia state is unsettling to a culture that has been in force uninterrupted for more than 50 years.
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Omamo also weighed in with some mumbo-jumbo about "serious jeopardy". Anyways, it looks like they are taking quite a beating. The Swiss representative has bluntly stated that 2 years ago, the ASP was extremely flexible to Kenyan/AU noises but that there are limits. That views seems to have widespread support, and the issue will now be one of finding a diplomatic way to tell
Kenya GoK to piss off.
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Agreed. The political class are supposed to be immune to any form of prosecution.
The lady is performing at the ASP session right now. She boldly stated that dealing with the ICC is the biggest national challenge that Kenya faces and has had to deal with. Really.
I believe she is right. It challenges the national culture of impunity in a way no institution back in Kenya was ever willing to or capable of. In this culture, crimes attributed to certain individuals are expected to be ventilated on if at all, perhaps in the media, political platforms or judicial charades, and then people move on.
ICC, was largely expected to begin this process 99 years in the future. The hustler would be in his 130s or 140s. That was the script. Despite the weaknesses of the case, the mere possibility that they can make a decision beyond the influence of the Kenyan mafia state is unsettling to a culture that has been in force uninterrupted for more than 50 years.
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shameful to stand before the world and proclaim that your ability to kill, displace and maim with impunity is your greatest challenge.. what ruto and his foolish president is saying to the world is Let us be able to kill, mutilate, maim and displace at will for the sake of peace.. May the gods of Kenya punish these stupid women and their masters
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REALLY shameful.
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Omamo also weighed in with some mumbo-jumbo about "serious jeopardy". Anyways, it looks like they are taking quite a beating. The Swiss representative has bluntly stated that 2 years ago, the ASP was extremely flexible to Kenyan/AU noises but that there are limits. That views seems to have widespread support, and the issue will now be one of finding a diplomatic way to tell Kenya GoK to piss off.
I heard Kenya can now count on the support of Uganda, one of the 34 African members, on its rule 68 agenda. Museveni is just the type to see the benefit of discarding all testimony by disappeared or recanting witnesses . He also has to have one of the more colorful relationships with ICC.
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I heard Kenya can now count on the support of Uganda, one of the 34 African members, on its rule 68 agenda. Museveni is just the type to see the benefit of discarding all testimony by disappeared or recanting witnesses . He also has to have one of the more colorful relationships with ICC.
Yes, it looks like "African mass walkout", predicted in the event of failure, will involve a rather small mass; 28 of the African delegates didn't even bother to say a single word. The GoK performance was too embarrassing, even by the questionable continental standards.
Here are some of the twitter views of a well-known lawyer who eats on the Jubilee side:
Ahmednasir Abdullahi ?@ahmednasirlaw · 21h21 hours ago
The arguments made by the kenyan delegation at the Hague are career ending in any political system worth its salt..nauseating.
Ahmednasir Abdullahi ?@ahmednasirlaw · 22h22 hours ago
If you know Western govts are against changing the rule on retracted evidence why waste time & resource?..then u go to Hague with ruffians!
Ahmednasir Abdullahi ?@ahmednasirlaw · 22h22 hours ago
Kenya's strategy at the Hague is crazy...you don't have the numbers, your strategy is poor, you make silly third world argument...laughable
Ahmednasir Abdullahi ?@ahmednasirlaw · 22h22 hours ago
The silliness of Kenya's argument at the Hague is astounding.Canada,Brtian & Switzerland..& our other donors simply laughed at Kenya's case!
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shameful to stand before the world and proclaim that your ability to kill, displace and maim with impunity is your greatest challenge.. what ruto and his foolish president is saying to the world is Let us be able to kill, mutilate, maim and displace at will for the sake of peace.. May the gods of Kenya punish these stupid women and their masters
It is a great challenge for the klepticrats where impunity has reigned supreme. It's a shocking experience to them that anyone is asking them to account for their crimes against the peasants.
I hope and pray for the revival of the other Kenyan case one day.
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Amina Mohamed thinks Africa has a shortfall when it comes to mass atrocities. Because Europe enjoyed impunity for all those years. If I understand her correctly, Africa could use a few more years of impunity. There is room to kill a few more millions. That would be consistent with the fact that she has not uttered a word about the victims.
Q: Apart from Uganda, South Africa and Ethiopia, many African countries appear to have abandoned Kenya in its hour of need at the ASP. Does Kenya feel betrayed?
No, that’s not true at all because the Ethiopian foreign minister was here at the behest of the African countries. And he was here to represent the open-ended working group of the African Union on our relationship with the ICC. It’s not just about Kenya. It’s about Africa’s relationship with the ICC. Africa has the largest number of state parties to the Rome Statute. Therefore, I don’t think anybody should ever doubt their sincerity in a big part of this whole process. When a question like that is asked, it’s as if some countries are the owners of impunity and others are not. Our countries are young countries. They are 50 years old. [European] countries are older, much, much older. I guess if we were supposed to weigh who was committed more atrocities, then we would still have a big shortfall.
https://thehaguetrials.co.ke/article/icc-not-kangaroo-court-says-kenyas-top-diplomat-amina-mohamed (https://thehaguetrials.co.ke/article/icc-not-kangaroo-court-says-kenyas-top-diplomat-amina-mohamed)