Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on April 23, 2015, 02:57:28 PM
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I just finished watching the launching of OKOA Kenya. I missed the beginning due to meetings but caught up with George Kegoro's speech. He delivered it calmly and with clarity. I saw the next Attorney General of Kenya should CORD take power.
I have to thank George Kegoro for a brief but concise analysis of the Supreme Court. He has just given the reasons why should the election be mishandled against CORD, there would be no going to that court.
I had no idea that the Kangaroo court rejected each and every interlocutory application by the Raila side while agreeing to every one by the Uhuru side. They rejected every application for enjoinment by those either neutral or likely to favor Raila while accepting all those likely to favor Uhuru including Moses Kuria.
Among those rejected:
Yash Pal Ghai
The Law Society of Kenya
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And what does he propose is the solution? Return to anarchy should CORD be beaten. I have tried to understand CORD gripe against Supreme Court and IEBC and everytime I find them worthless including Kegoro rantings.CORD and Civil Society (George Kegoro) brought forward a case without merit..which was UNANIMOUSLY rejected by all judges.Some of judges include people you'd expect were sympathetic to CORD including Mutunga, the CJ.
CORD continue to lay the path for another beating in 2017 when they focus on IEBC and Supreme court instead of FOCUSSING ON TRIBAL MATHS.
Uhuru can only be beaten by tribal maths. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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I am no longer sure that those judges were freely expressing their opinions.
There are a number of changes that should be made. I have yet to see the bill but I think thr two week period should be extended and the court granted leeway to extend it to 9 moths. Nobody should be sworn it but the speaker elected by the new parliament can be acting president supervising the outgoing ministers.
Kegoro made his case. How many voters were registered. It turns out the IEBC has four different figures (i) for the Supreme Court it provided two (ii) when releasing the results formally it had a new one (iii) when answering a question in parliament about the results it had yet a new figure.
He raised issue with the integrity of Issack Hassan which I think is a no contest. If jubilee want a stooge they can get a new one just like they are changing Matemu and Keino for another set of toothless dogs. The scandals surrounding the IEBC are so huge that one has to be completely without shame to stay in office. The claim that they don't or didn't know is not good enough. The question is what is worse: To know or not to know?
About unanimous: Not that there is anything wrong with unanimous decisions but I would have been more comfortable and slept easier if there had been at least one dissenting opinion.
And what does he propose is the solution? Return to anarchy should CORD be beaten. I have tried to understand CORD gripe against Supreme Court and IEBC and everytime I find them worthless including Kegoro rantings.CORD and Civil Society (George Kegoro) brought forward a case without merit..which was UNANIMOUSLY rejected by all judges.Some of judges include people you'd expect were sympathetic to CORD including Mutunga, the CJ.
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And what does he propose is the solution? Return to anarchy should CORD be beaten. I have tried to understand CORD gripe against Supreme Court and IEBC and everytime I find them worthless including Kegoro rantings.CORD and Civil Society (George Kegoro) brought forward a case without merit..which was UNANIMOUSLY rejected by all judges.Some of judges include people you'd expect were sympathetic to CORD including Mutunga, the CJ.
CORD continue to lay the path for another beating in 2017 when they focus on IEBC and Supreme court instead of FOCUSSING ON TRIBAL MATHS.
Uhuru can only be beaten by tribal maths. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I think even if one agrees with how the Supreme Court handled the cases, it is ridiculous to suggest nothing needs to change. Especially with regards to improving the processes at IEBC.
There is plenty of room for improvement even if there were no challenge. Specifically, a lot of money was spent on the technologies to reduce electoral fraud. They all failed.
I am yet to see any suggestion that anyone plans to fix that. The relevant parties will probably raise it on the eve of the election.
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Omollo, I only agree with slight time extension (say 1 month instead of two weeks) but I think we have to accept whoever will be running IEBC or Supreme Court will be human and they will make mistakes. We certainly need to change IEBC after the chicken scandals. Isaac and team should have long resigned because like Supreme Court, they should be beyond reproach.
But for me the big questions is whether 50%...requirement is high enough? That should be high threshold..but maybe we can make it 60%.
And the bigger question is to focus more on DEVOLUTION...CORD have gone for 45%...I hope they had gone for 60-70% real federalism.
Their list of issues are so underwhelming...parliament should get done and be finished with it..without the need for referendum.
am no longer sure that those judges were freely expressing their opinions.
There are a number of changes that should be made. I have yet to see the bill but I think thr two week period should be extended and the court granted leeway to extend it to 9 moths. Nobody should be sworn it but the speaker elected by the new parliament can be acting president supervising the outgoing ministers.
Kegoro made his case. How many voters were registered. It turns out the IEBC has four different figures (i) for the Supreme Court it provided two (ii) when releasing the results formally it had a new one (iii) when answering a question in parliament about the results it had yet a new figure.
He raised issue with the integrity of Issack Hassan which I think is a no contest. If jubilee want a stooge they can get a new one just like they are changing Matemu and Keino for another set of toothless dogs. The scandals surrounding the IEBC are so huge that one has to be completely without shame to stay in office. The claim that they don't or didn't know is not good enough. The question is what is worse: To know or not to know?
About unanimous: Not that there is anything wrong with unanimous decisions but I would have been more comfortable and slept easier if there had been at least one dissenting opinion.
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Of course. But we should be careful so we do not throw away IEBC and Supreme Court..and then begin again...and again..and again. I find this tirade against supreme court for example to be unwarranted...unless somebody has evidence they were bribed or intimidated...casting aspersion on judges is dangerous.
Parliament should seize the opportunity to improve.....by agreeing with some of the sensible CORD issues. It certainly won't help CORD because the last election...Raila had 50% say on IEBC, Judges and Key officials overseeing election thanks to NARA.
I think even if one agrees with how the Supreme Court handled the cases, it is ridiculous to suggest nothing needs to change. Especially with regards to improving the processes at IEBC.
There is plenty of room for improvement even if there were no challenge. Specifically, a lot of money was spent on the technologies to reduce electoral fraud. They all failed.
I am yet to see any suggestion that anyone plans to fix that. The relevant parties will probably raise it on the eve of the election.
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There is a simple logic; when the courts rule in your favor, they are objective, progressive......but when they rule against, they are compromised, biased,partisan. So either have your way or they are wrong
Of course. But we should be careful so we do not throw away IEBC and Supreme Court..and then begin again...and again..and again. I find this tirade against supreme court for example to be unwarranted...unless somebody has evidence they were bribed or intimidated...casting aspersion on judges is dangerous.
Parliament should seize the opportunity to improve.....by agreeing with some of the sensible CORD issues. It certainly won't help CORD because the last election...Raila had 50% say on IEBC, Judges and Key officials overseeing election thanks to NARA.
I think even if one agrees with how the Supreme Court handled the cases, it is ridiculous to suggest nothing needs to change. Especially with regards to improving the processes at IEBC.
There is plenty of room for improvement even if there were no challenge. Specifically, a lot of money was spent on the technologies to reduce electoral fraud. They all failed.
I am yet to see any suggestion that anyone plans to fix that. The relevant parties will probably raise it on the eve of the election.
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The biggest problem I see is hypocrisy just like in the church. Why is Parliament so willing to throw away EACC on the basis of corruption but when it comes to IEBC you only see twiddling of fingers? If EACC is guilty of corruption for selling Integrity Center to the lowest bidder or the highest bribe giver, what about IEBC which sold Kenya for the tastiest chicken? Kenyan MPs sound like protestant Sunday keepers all through.
There is no need of cleansing IEBC's plate in the morning while having hyenas guard the pen where you will keep the goats at night.
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Uhuru is exactly like George Bush - elected by supreme court. At the same time CORD has many avenues to continue to push for reform, but they have chosen to focus on the top seat.
Bread. I agree. Too many double standards. maybe because these hyenas dont want their pen cleansed of corruption.
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Suprisingly they haven't stepped down despite being investigated. I think IEBC commissioners need to go due to Chicken scandal. Then a new team appointed. How they will be appointed is another pandora box...
The biggest problem I see is hypocrisy just like in the church. Why is Parliament so willing to throw away EACC on the basis of corruption but when it comes to IEBC you only see twiddling of fingers? If EACC is guilty of corruption for selling Integrity Center to the lowest bidder or the highest bribe giver, what about IEBC which sold Kenya for the tastiest chicken? Kenyan MPs sound like protestant Sunday keepers all through.
There is no need of cleansing IEBC's plate in the morning while having hyenas guard the pen where you will keep the goats at night.
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vooke
What you are saying has largely become s cliche - lets face the naked truth. Judges are known to be biased and many have been caught red handed with bank notes under their flowing robes.
Kegoro made his case: Every application made by the Uhuru side was accepted while every application made by the Raila side was rejected! Those seeking to be enjoined in the case who were clearly pro-Uhuru were allowed yet all those who sought the same who were pro-Raila were rejected.
The Supreme Court rejected the additional affidavit and other evidence even though they knew the IEBC ( a party in the case) was partly responsible for the delay. Thus the IEBC gained from its mischief with tacit SC support.
There is a simple logic; when the courts rule in your favor, they are objective, progressive......but when they rule against, they are compromised, biased,partisan. So either have your way or they are wrong
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Kegoro made his case in partisan forum where nobody could challenge him. The facts of the case I think are in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kenya_Presidential_Election_Petition_2013
There were 3 petitions..including Moses Kuria grp (who followed the procedures),AfriCog and Raila Odinga.
Ghai,LSK and AG applied to be friends of court; only AG was accepted.
All the rullings were unanimous.
You'll need more direct evidence to convince kenyans that justice was not done.
vooke
What you are saying has largely become s cliche - lets face the naked truth. Judges are known to be biased and many have been caught red handed with bank notes under their flowing robes.
Kegoro made his case: Every application made by the Uhuru side was accepted while every application made by the Raila side was rejected! Those seeking to be enjoined in the case who were clearly pro-Uhuru were allowed yet all those who sought the same who were pro-Raila were rejected.
The Supreme Court rejected the additional affidavit and other evidence even though they knew the IEBC ( a party in the case) was partly responsible for the delay. Thus the IEBC gained from its mischief with tacit SC support.
There is a simple logic; when the courts rule in your favor, they are objective, progressive......but when they rule against, they are compromised, biased,partisan. So either have your way or they are wrong
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Kegoro made his case in partisan forum where nobody could challenge him. The facts of the case I think are in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kenya_Presidential_Election_Petition_2013 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kenya_Presidential_Election_Petition_2013)
There were 3 petitions..including Moses Kuria grp (who followed the procedures),AfriCog and Raila Odinga.
Ghai,LSK and AG applied to be friends of court; only AG was accepted.
All the rullings were unanimous.
You'll need more direct evidence to convince kenyans that justice was not done.
vooke
What you are saying has largely become s cliche - lets face the naked truth. Judges are known to be biased and many have been caught red handed with bank notes under their flowing robes.
Kegoro made his case: Every application made by the Uhuru side was accepted while every application made by the Raila side was rejected! Those seeking to be enjoined in the case who were clearly pro-Uhuru were allowed yet all those who sought the same who were pro-Raila were rejected.
The Supreme Court rejected the additional affidavit and other evidence even though they knew the IEBC ( a party in the case) was partly responsible for the delay. Thus the IEBC gained from its mischief with tacit SC support.
There is a simple logic; when the courts rule in your favor, they are objective, progressive......but when they rule against, they are compromised, biased,partisan. So either have your way or they are wrong
Even though I disagree wikipedia can be used to settle something that is bitterly disputed and controversial. How true is this information?
4. IEBC admitted that it covertly single sourced server and database services from Kencall and spent no less than $26.5million on the RPS (results presentation system) which comprised:
1 Server at Kencall running Oracle 11g Goldengate
1 HP DL 580 Proliant Server at Bomas
Oracle 11g Goldengate database license
33,400 Oracle 11g user licences
From what I recall, there was no oracle database at all. It was MySQL. I believe a glassfish application server as well. While I don't doubt that the money could have been spent. Everything was basically FREE.
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I think the true position was that KenCall handled IEBC call center (voter education).Kencall was also handling TNA it's internal election reporting system..where their agents would call and Kencall staff would key in the results.
IEBC ran their results transmission syste inhouse. The server crashed because some fool left the default log file size (2G)....and meanwhile the server (mysql) logging was set to verbose...so the log file grew quickly and in those few critical hours..the server crashed and everyone panicked.
IEBC secretariat was manned by Oswago and the systems- Odongo or somebody like that (IT guy with some Nigeria election experience)...so you can say Raila had a fair shot.
4. IEBC admitted that it covertly single sourced server and database services from Kencall and spent no less than $26.5million on the RPS (results presentation system) which comprised:
1 Server at Kencall running Oracle 11g Goldengate
1 HP DL 580 Proliant Server at Bomas
Oracle 11g Goldengate database license
33,400 Oracle 11g user licences
From what I recall, there was no oracle database at all. It was MySQL. I believe a glassfish application server as well. While I don't doubt that the money could have been spent. Everything was basically FREE.
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I think the true position was that KenCall handled IEBC call center (voter education).Kencall was also handling TNA it's internal election reporting system..where their agents would call and Kencall staff would key in the results.
IEBC ran their results transmission syste inhouse. The server crashed because some fool left the default log file size (2G)....and meanwhile the server (mysql) logging was set to verbose...so the log file grew quickly and in those few critical hours..the server crashed and everyone panicked.
IEBC secretariat was manned by Oswago and the systems- Odongo or somebody like that (IT guy with some Nigeria election experience)...so you can say Raila had a fair shot.
4. IEBC admitted that it covertly single sourced server and database services from Kencall and spent no less than $26.5million on the RPS (results presentation system) which comprised:
1 Server at Kencall running Oracle 11g Goldengate
1 HP DL 580 Proliant Server at Bomas
Oracle 11g Goldengate database license
33,400 Oracle 11g user licences
From what I recall, there was no oracle database at all. It was MySQL. I believe a glassfish application server as well. While I don't doubt that the money could have been spent. Everything was basically FREE.
Pundit,
I am not concerned with the credibility of the ruling; it will be split between ODM and PNU(or its current reincarnation)
For me, $26 million bucks. To get an open-source(free) product. And then not deliver.
I can only imagine how many more are out there out of sight public scrutiny. This makes chicken-gate look like a walk in the park.
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Yes that was a big scandal.Kenya election was the WORLD second most expensive election after UN sponsored one in Afgan.There was outright corruption and panicking buying....
Pundit,
I am not concerned with the credibility of the ruling; it will be split between ODM and PNU(or its current reincarnation)
For me, $26 million bucks. To get an open-source(free) product. And then not deliver.
I can only imagine how many more are out there out of sight public scrutiny. This makes chicken-gate look like a walk in the park.
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The Wikipedia article needs to be updated. Here is the list of those who applied to be amicus curiae :
1. Attorney General - Supported by Uhuru - Court Granted . Githu Muigai (he did not recuse himself despite being related to Uhuru and having shown previous bias in his favour
2. Prof. Pal Yash Ghai - Opposed by Uhuru - Court Denied - The SC denied the application on the grounds that he was biased against Uhuru. No tangible proof of bias was presented
3. Nazlin Naslin - Opposed by Uhuru - Court denied - Alleged bias not proved
4. LSK - Opposed - Denied
5. Either Ndubi or Kituo Cha Sheria applied and was/ were denied.
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I have never believed that this server crashing was a mistake.
Now that we are on it could you explain why the difference between Uhuru and Raila remained static despite varying results input? Any votes awarded to Raila immediately triggered a rise in Uhuru's votes that were from nowhere.
I think the true position was that KenCall handled IEBC call center (voter education).Kencall was also handling TNA it's internal election reporting system..where their agents would call and Kencall staff would key in the results.
IEBC ran their results transmission system in house. The server crashed because some fool left the default log file size (2G)....and meanwhile the server (mysql) logging was set to verbose...so the log file grew quickly and in those few critical hours..the server crashed and everyone panicked.
IEBC secretariat was manned by Oswago and the systems- Odongo or somebody like that (IT guy with some Nigeria election experience)...so you can say Raila had a fair shot.
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I have never believed that this server crashing was a mistake.
Now that we are on it could you explain why the difference between Uhuru and Raila remained static despite varying results input? Any votes awarded to Raila immediately triggered a rise in Uhuru's votes that were from nowhere.
I think the true position was that KenCall handled IEBC call center (voter education).Kencall was also handling TNA it's internal election reporting system..where their agents would call and Kencall staff would key in the results.
IEBC ran their results transmission system in house. The server crashed because some fool left the default log file size (2G)....and meanwhile the server (mysql) logging was set to verbose...so the log file grew quickly and in those few critical hours..the server crashed and everyone panicked.
IEBC secretariat was manned by Oswago and the systems- Odongo or somebody like that (IT guy with some Nigeria election experience)...so you can say Raila had a fair shot.
It's hard to believe it was not a result of a special effort to fail. The data in question is not a lot. Even with default settings, on very humble hardware, things don't fail that easily.
Once it fails, and I believe it fails, it does not play any further role in the outcome. But it opens the door for old tried and tested processes to come into play.
If ODM were serious, they should have walked out of the election before the outcome was clear.
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What do you mean static.You only need a random sample of 2,000 people to determine the election in a scientific poll. Significant number of polling station randomly reported before the crash...and it reflected the final tally.
Before the crash I think 1/3 or more of polling stations had reported...randomly from diferent polling station..that ought to have reflected the final tally and it did.
It something else if you have aggregated reporting say at constituency..where someone strongholds..could come in late like 2007 kibaki rigging.
The systems was reporting at 30,0000 polling stations..and before the crash...more than 10,000 had check their votes in randomly from every corner of the country.
I have never believed that this server crashing was a mistake.
Now that we are on it could you explain why the difference between Uhuru and Raila remained static despite varying results input? Any votes awarded to Raila immediately triggered a rise in Uhuru's votes that were from nowhere.
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The charge is ridiculous. Somebody would have to rig both the manual process and electronic one[provisional]. If some script was appending votes to Uhuru..how about the polling stations forms...how would they sync that. Raila in his petition really went down for little polling stations with little discrepancies...which were cleanly explained by IEBC.
It's hard to believe it was not a result of a special effort to fail. The data in question is not a lot. Even with default settings, on very humble hardware, things don't fail that easily.
Once it fails, and I believe it fails, it does not play any further role in the outcome. But it opens the door for old tried and tested processes to come into play.
If ODM were serious, they should have walked out of the election before the outcome was clear.
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One of us is not understood it or expressed it well. Let me try :
The TV was displaying results as they came it. Often after the so called "Commissioners" had read the results. Upon being fed in to the display on our TV sets, there would be some change. It was invariable. Both would jump up - Raila who got more votes in the latest tally and Uhuru who got much less. However whenever Uhuru got more votes, he would jump but Raila would remain right where he was. The percentages changed but the margin remained the same.
What do you mean static.You only need a random sample of 2,000 people to determine the election in a scientific poll. Significant number of polling station randomly reported before the crash...and it reflected the final tally.
Before the crash I think 1/3 or more of polling stations had reported...randomly from diferent polling station..that ought to have reflected the final tally and it did.
It something else if you have aggregated reporting say at constituency..where someone strongholds..could come in late like 2007 kibaki rigging.
I have never believed that this server crashing was a mistake.
Now that we are on it could you explain why the difference between Uhuru and Raila remained static despite varying results input? Any votes awarded to Raila immediately triggered a rise in Uhuru's votes that were from nowhere.
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It is hard to say that Raila went to the polling stations when the iEBC refused to hand over the Form 34. The IEBC claimed the forms went missing.
AN audit of the March 4 election results has revealed that 2,585 out of 32,095 polling streams are still missing Forms 34 on the official IEBC website.
Mars Group Kenya has said although the results of the missing streams were not included, the audit identified discrepancies between the presidential tally announced by the IEBC and the figure computed from the Form 34 sheets the commission made public.
“We do note, however, that whereas the missing stream Forms 34 may reduce the overall discrepancy in county election results, the Form 34 discrepancies suggests a serious tallying problem that could alter the official final national presidential vote tally per candidate that was announced by the IEBC,” the lobby group said in its report yesterday.
The IEBC, however, defended itself in a statement to the Star that all the physical forms are available and safely stored.
IEBC communication officer Andrew Limo said they are checking if there are any missing forms as alleged.
He said those that are not available will be uploaded. “We are checking if the forms were not scanned and uploaded to the website. But we have all the hard copies safely stored and their contents were captured in the tabulation of the results. We will upload any missing copy,” Limo said.
According to the audit, the missing forms must produce 943,520 votes with President Uhuru Kenyatta’s being 360,370 against former Prime Minister Raila Odinga’s 467,305 for the IEBC official results to be correct and valid.
- See more at: http://www.the-star.co.ke/article/forms-34-missing-iebc-website#sthash.NIGfUEKb.dpuf
The charge is ridiculous. Somebody would have to rig both the manual process and electronic one[provisional]. If some script was appending votes to Uhuru..how about the polling stations forms...how would they sync that. Raila in his petition really went down for little polling stations with little discrepancies...which were cleanly explained by IEBC.
It's hard to believe it was not a result of a special effort to fail. The data in question is not a lot. Even with default settings, on very humble hardware, things don't fail that easily.
Once it fails, and I believe it fails, it does not play any further role in the outcome. But it opens the door for old tried and tested processes to come into play.
If ODM were serious, they should have walked out of the election before the outcome was clear.
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I think they explained it well. They were missing online..as not scanned..otherwise Raila, IEBC and every party had their copy. 2007 was rigging and ODM could tell us the possible station..even ECK themselves had to admit to that. I
n this..there was nothing..just shooting in the dark..and trying to find an error here and there to invalidate the whole results..which the supreme court unanimously rejected..because no process including scanning is without error.
ODM went to desperate length they even pointed out errors that favoured Raila. For them...the election had to be 100% perfect...even if some polling station screwed up innocently...then we would have to hold election and election and election. If there were errors..and there must have been..they were fair and free errors..some 2 votes for Uhuru..some mathematical mistake in favour of Raila.
The supreme judges clearly saw through the BS and unanimously dismissed the case. I think they were a little fair to Raila not to award cost to him...
I remain the last person to cast unjustified aspersion on those six judges.
It is hard to say that Raila went to the polling stations when the iEBC refused to hand over the Form 34. The IEBC claimed the forms went missing.
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The charge is ridiculous. Somebody would have to rig both the manual process and electronic one[provisional]. If some script was appending votes to Uhuru..how about the polling stations forms...how would they sync that. Raila in his petition really went down for little polling stations with little discrepancies...which were cleanly explained by IEBC.
It's hard to believe it was not a result of a special effort to fail. The data in question is not a lot. Even with default settings, on very humble hardware, things don't fail that easily.
Once it fails, and I believe it fails, it does not play any further role in the outcome. But it opens the door for old tried and tested processes to come into play.
If ODM were serious, they should have walked out of the election before the outcome was clear.
I agree that one would have to rig both electronic and manual to have them sync. The transmitted data and the actual ballots.
But that is only IF the electronic transmission was reliable. As far as I can tell, and I think you agree, the transmission was stopped at some point. Due to logging space or whatever other reason.
The requirement that they be sync therefore becomes moot, because the processes were back to the old manual ones.
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Right. But I think provisional results [that went thro'] were used and are still available for comparison with old manual ones.If I recall IEBC did do the comparison. There is no where ODM has pointed out evidence of this strange notion that % of Uhuru and Raila were growing constantly.
The requirement that they be sync therefore becomes moot, because the processes were back to the old manual ones.
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No. They used Form 36 not 34. If they had tried using 34 we would still be waiting for the results. Form 36 cover an "area" which may contain several polling stations.
Right. But I think provisional results [that went thro'] were used and are still available for comparison with old manual ones.If I recall IEBC did do the comparison. There is no where ODM has pointed out evidence of this strange notion that % of Uhuru and Raila were growing constantly.
The requirement that they be sync therefore becomes moot, because the processes were back to the old manual ones.
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Nationally yes. But during petition ODM used polling station data. It was clean shot if they had evidence.They didn't. In the end they resorted to collecting one error in West Pokot, one error in Kisumu, one error in Kiambu and name it. There was no motive,no scheme, no direction,just errors or discrepancies. They just couldn't proof anything that IEBC lawyers couldn't easily destroy.
The fact that six of those supreme judges unanimously agreed with IEBC...tells you Raila lost and lost fairly.
He can choose to learn from the mistakes...or pass the buck to IEBC and supreme court.
No. They used Form 36 not 34. If they had tried using 34 we would still be waiting for the results.
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Right. But I think provisional results [that went thro'] were used and are still available for comparison with old manual ones.If I recall IEBC did do the comparison. There is no where ODM has pointed out evidence of this strange notion that % of Uhuru and Raila were growing constantly.
The requirement that they be sync therefore becomes moot, because the processes were back to the old manual ones.
I don't know of anything suspicious about the transmission that went through. It's been a while. But think there was a constant gap or something like that; I think most transmission was coming from one candidate's stronghold.
Still it's hard to say if that was intentional or not without digging further. Ultimately it wouldn't have been difficult to spot with the relevant forms from the polling stations.
The beef from my perspective is the breakdown of the system itself. What it made possible(even if it may not have happened). ODM should have pulled out then instead of hoping things would fall their way.
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The information entered in Form 36 was supposed to come from Form 34. However most were changed and did not agree with results announced at the polling stations.
The SC agreed that this happened but then claimed that the violations had not been on a scale to tip the balance. That was easy to say after the affidavit containing the evidence to show that the amount could have tipped the balance had been rejected.
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A significant number did report. I think nearly half of 30,000. They were random. IEBC really had no window to debug or correct systems errors. By the second day...ODM demanded the system be shut down because of the "constant" thing. They distrusted the systems given their were loosing..and choose the manual way...hoping for a fresh clean slate. When IEBC began tallying...manually..I think the constant thing was still there. Then it became the race to stop Uhuru from getting 50%. And they reasoned all they needed was to show that Uhuru's razor thing 0.007% was invalid due to small errors here and there. And that was huge blunder. They missed the big picture.
I don't know of anything suspicious about the transmission that went through. It's been a while. But think there was a constant gap or something like that; I think most transmission was coming from one candidate's stronghold.
Still it's hard to say if that was intentional or not without digging further. Ultimately it wouldn't have been difficult to spot with the relevant forms from the polling stations.
The beef from my perspective is the breakdown of the system itself. What it made possible(even if it may not have happened). ODM should have pulled out then instead of hoping things would fall their way.
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I am surprised at you Pundit. You are using the language of the Mullah. You know that is not what happened.
The work of an advocate is to establish a trend. Hitherto that is how election petitions had been conducted. It was never about bringing out every violation when a sample had been given.
However some young lawyers in the group got wind of something early enough and decided to speed up the affidavit which contained more details. It had been customary to submit additional evidence and affidavits as long as the hearing was going on. The SC did not object immediately but went on read the affidavit and then came back to reject it! You can decide for yourself what to think.
One of the judges has since stated that had that affidavit been admitted, the ruling could not have been the same.
Nationally yes. But during petition ODM used polling station data. It was clean shot if they had evidence.They didn't. In the end they resorted to collecting one error in West Pokot, one error in Kisumu, one error in Kiambu and name it. There was no motive,no scheme, no direction,just errors or discrepancies. They just couldn't proof anything that IEBC lawyers couldn't easily destroy.
The fact that six of those supreme judges unanimously agreed with IEBC...tells you Raila lost and lost fairly.
He can choose to learn from the mistakes...or pass the buck to IEBC and supreme court.
No. They used Form 36 not 34. If they had tried using 34 we would still be waiting for the results.
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I note that they made a unanimous decision. When Scalia made his ruling in favor of Bush, how many found it faultless? Any ruling based on technicalities in a jurisprudence that had long established the link between unfairness and technicalities is likely to raise eyebrows. It is the reason many people wonder exactly what happened.
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A significant number did report. I think nearly half of 30,000. They were random. IEBC really had no window to debug or correct systems errors. By the second day...ODM demanded the system be shut down because of the "constant" thing. They distrusted the systems given their were loosing..and choose the manual way...hoping for a fresh clean slate. When IEBC began tallying...manually..I think the constant thing was still there. Then it became the race to stop Uhuru from getting 50%. And they reasoned all they needed was to show that Uhuru's razor thing 0.007% was invalid due to small errors here and there. And that was huge blunder. They missed the big picture.
I don't know of anything suspicious about the transmission that went through. It's been a while. But think there was a constant gap or something like that; I think most transmission was coming from one candidate's stronghold.
Still it's hard to say if that was intentional or not without digging further. Ultimately it wouldn't have been difficult to spot with the relevant forms from the polling stations.
The beef from my perspective is the breakdown of the system itself. What it made possible(even if it may not have happened). ODM should have pulled out then instead of hoping things would fall their way.
It's been a while for me to recall details. But I thought we agreed the transmission crashed because of a log(or some other reason unrelated to ODM).
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What was the big picture? I don't get it. We know many credible people who witnessed "topping up". How do you explain voters in ODM stromngholøds being "transferred to Uhuru strongholds? Where if they had not been so transferred the total votes would exceed the registered voters?
Please we accepted and moved on. But I urge you to seriously look in to the matter and not be dismissive. What happened in 2007 happened in 2013 only with some intelligence.
A significant number did report. I think nearly half of 30,000. They were random. IEBC really had no window to debug or correct systems errors. By the second day...ODM demanded the system be shut down because of the "constant" thing. They distrusted the systems given their were loosing..and choose the manual way...hoping for a fresh clean slate. When IEBC began tallying...manually..I think the constant thing was still there. Then it became the race to stop Uhuru from getting 50%. And they reasoned all they needed was to show that Uhuru's razor thing 0.007% was invalid due to small errors here and there. And that was huge blunder. They missed the big picture.
I don't know of anything suspicious about the transmission that went through. It's been a while. But think there was a constant gap or something like that; I think most transmission was coming from one candidate's stronghold.
Still it's hard to say if that was intentional or not without digging further. Ultimately it wouldn't have been difficult to spot with the relevant forms from the polling stations.
The beef from my perspective is the breakdown of the system itself. What it made possible(even if it may not have happened). ODM should have pulled out then instead of hoping things would fall their way.
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What was the big picture? I don't get it. We know many credible people who witnessed "topping up". How do you explain voters in ODM stromngholøds being "transferred to Uhuru strongholds? Where if they had not been so transferred the total votes would exceed the registered voters?
Please we accepted and moved on. But I urge you to seriously look in to the matter and not be dismissive. What happened in 2007 happened in 2013 only with some intelligence.
A significant number did report. I think nearly half of 30,000. They were random. IEBC really had no window to debug or correct systems errors. By the second day...ODM demanded the system be shut down because of the "constant" thing. They distrusted the systems given their were loosing..and choose the manual way...hoping for a fresh clean slate. When IEBC began tallying...manually..I think the constant thing was still there. Then it became the race to stop Uhuru from getting 50%. And they reasoned all they needed was to show that Uhuru's razor thing 0.007% was invalid due to small errors here and there. And that was huge blunder. They missed the big picture.
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There has never been any credible evidence of rigging in 2013 that I have seen.When you have any evidence of votes being transferred, please share the specifics.
The supreme court (of some of eminent judges) unanimously validated election. The election monitors similarly gave it thumbs up. ODM and CORD simply got their tribal maths wrong and were bound to lose.
As far as I'm concerned the only hitch in 2013 was the failure of BVR and ERT to work.....across the board.
Raila had a say in IEBC and Supreme Court selection...and including purchasing of BVR kits from Canada..and ran as incumbent PM with 20 ministers of his own.
In short Raila lost fair and square.
What was the big picture? I don't get it. We know many credible people who witnessed "topping up". How do you explain voters in ODM stromngholøds being "transferred to Uhuru strongholds? Where if they had not been so transferred the total votes would exceed the registered voters?
Please we accepted and moved on. But I urge you to seriously look in to the matter and not be dismissive. What happened in 2007 happened in 2013 only with some intelligence.
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Supreme Court is where conspiracy theories fell flat. I think insisting on a stolen-elections narrative is therapeutic for some
There has never been any credible evidence of rigging in 2013 that I have seen.When you have any evidence of votes being transferred, please share the specifics.
The supreme court (of some of eminent judges) unanimously validated election. The election monitors similarly gave it thumbs up. ODM and CORD simply got their tribal maths wrong and were bound to lose.
As far as I'm concerned the only hitch in 2013 was the failure of BVR and ERT to work.....across the board.
Raila had a say in IEBC and Supreme Court selection...and including purchasing of BVR kits from Canada..and ran as incumbent PM with 20 ministers of his own.
In short Raila lost fair and square.
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Pundit
we can't hold a trial here. All I can refer to is information that is in the public domain and you too can go the extra mile to look in to it and not simply dismiss it all as "therapeutic" (vooke, 2015). I have never believed you can be a victim of propaganda even if it comes from friendly sources.
1. I have not said that votes were transferred. What was established and documented was the transfer of voters. Say an area in Embu has 3500 voters in the register given to parties by the IEBC. As the counting and results are announced Uhuru has got 4000 votes in that area and the IEBC says the total number of voters is 4500. Thus the new figure is well within the margins. The overall nationwide voter numbers have not changed either. So where did the extra voters come from? Further examination of the "internal" totals of the register then revealed that small numbers of voters in CORD areas had been moved to Jubilee areas to mask the inflation of votes for Uhuru. So an area say Likuyani in Western, with 5600 registered voters would now announced results showing the registered voters had sunk to 3600 meaning 2000 voters had been moved.
2. In some cases it led to people not being able to vote as their names were found in far off places.
3. In other cases the people who transferred the votes also recorded them as having already voted.
4. Actually the said kits assisted in the rigging in many ways including denying many people the right to vote by indicating that they had already voted.
My take is that we can cry and weep over the 2007 and 2013 elections to no avail. The rigging was advanced and the opposition was simply not prepared to deal with it. The solution is to plug the holes. If that fails then a clear policy of balanced terror should be spelled out. In other words CORD should make it clear that it will only accept a fair poll. If not we shall all go to the brink and turn the country in to an African Yemen. We know the plans for a military takeover in event of PEV and that too has to be taken in to the calculations.
Uhuru is fast recruiting a militia on the same scale as Moi did from 1992. He is training people in GSU, AP, NYS off the books. We are looking to find an answer that is equally appropriate
There has never been any credible evidence of rigging in 2013 that I have seen.When you have any evidence of votes being transferred, please share the specifics.
The supreme court (of some of eminent judges) unanimously validated election. The election monitors similarly gave it thumbs up. ODM and CORD simply got their tribal maths wrong and were bound to lose.
As far as I'm concerned the only hitch in 2013 was the failure of BVR and ERT to work.....across the board.
Raila had a say in IEBC and Supreme Court selection...and including purchasing of BVR kits from Canada..and ran as incumbent PM with 20 ministers of his own.
In short Raila lost fair and square.
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Sound interesting. I personally witnessed the guy in my voting line who was told his polling station was in Lamu (there were many such cases) but most were resolved by using the black book. The lamu guy was kikuyu and he was protesting he had to vote...then I found many others as I entered the tent...they mostly voted..some having to write an affidavit . I kept being pushed from line a to z because they couldn't determine surnames...eventually I voted.
As regard to 2017...yea I sense Raila and CORD will be desperate...but I think Uhuru is such a consummate political operator (compared to Kibaki)...you guys simply stand no chance.
Pundit
we can't hold a trial here. All I can refer to is information that is in the public domain and you too can go the extra mile to look in to it and not simply dismiss it all as "therapeutic" (vooke, 2015). I have never believed you can be a victim of propaganda even if it comes from friendly sources.
1. I have not said that votes were transferred. What was established and documented was the transfer of voters. Say an area in Embu has 3500 voters in the register given to parties by the IEBC. As the counting and results are announced Uhuru has got 4000 votes in that area and the IEBC says the total number of voters is 4500. Thus the new figure is well within the margins. The overall nationwide voter numbers have not changed either. So where did the extra voters come from? Further examination of the "internal" totals of the register then revealed that small numbers of voters in CORD areas had been moved to Jubilee areas to mask the inflation of votes for Uhuru. So an area say Likuyani in Western, with 5600 registered voters would now announced results showing the registered voters had sunk to 3600 meaning 2000 voters had been moved.
2. In some cases it led to people not being able to vote as their names were found in far off places.
3. In other cases the people who transferred the votes also recorded them as having already voted.
4. Actually the said kits assisted in the rigging in many ways including denying many people the right to vote by indicating that they had already voted.
My take is that we can cry and weep over the 2007 and 2013 elections to no avail. The rigging was advanced and the opposition was simply not prepared to deal with it. The solution is to plug the holes. If that fails then a clear policy of balanced terror should be spelled out. In other words CORD should make it clear that it will only accept a fair poll. If not we shall all go to the brink and turn the country in to an African Yemen. We know the plans for a military takeover in event of PEV and that too has to be taken in to the calculations.
Uhuru is fast recruiting a militia on the same scale as Moi did from 1992. He is training people in GSU, AP, NYS off the books. We are looking to find an answer that is equally appropriate
There has never been any credible evidence of rigging in 2013 that I have seen.When you have any evidence of votes being transferred, please share the specifics.
The supreme court (of some of eminent judges) unanimously validated election. The election monitors similarly gave it thumbs up. ODM and CORD simply got their tribal maths wrong and were bound to lose.
As far as I'm concerned the only hitch in 2013 was the failure of BVR and ERT to work.....across the board.
Raila had a say in IEBC and Supreme Court selection...and including purchasing of BVR kits from Canada..and ran as incumbent PM with 20 ministers of his own.
In short Raila lost fair and square.
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My only concern is the referendum coming before the general elections. If they are held at the same time or after the General Election, we shall lick Uhuru Kenyatta. I wish I was at liberty to share our strategies but take your diary and note in it and ask me the same AFTER the elections.
Sound interesting. I personally witnessed the guy in my voting line who was told his polling station was in Lamu (there were many such cases) but most were resolved by using the black book. The lamu guy was kikuyu and he was protesting he had to vote...then I found many others as I entered the tent...they mostly voted..some having to write an affidavit . I kept being pushed from line a to z because they couldn't determine surnames...eventually I voted.
As regard to 2017...yea I sense Raila and CORD will be desperate...but I think Uhuru is such a consummate political operator (compared to Kibaki)...you guys simply stand no chance.