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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2024, 12:21:51 PM

Title: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2024, 12:21:51 PM
Free primary education in 2003 - classes were up to 200 kids from 40.
If we had ended it because suddenly kids had no where to sit;
We would have failed.

Secondary transition - 100% - we had some schools having nowhere for kids to sleep

We fixed it.

SHIF, housing levy,University funding, we need patience, persistence and determination to see through reforms.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Githunguri on November 04, 2024, 01:02:45 PM
RUBBISH
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2024, 01:59:14 PM
Thankfully you're in opposition.
RUBBISH
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: patel on November 04, 2024, 02:42:41 PM
RUBBISH
Precisely this is garbage. How do you gamble with peoples lives? How many kids died in 2003?
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2024, 02:44:33 PM
How many Kenyans had NHIF? Silly fool - Ruto is trying to bring everyone on board.
Precisely this is garbage. How do you gamble with peoples lives? How many kids died in 2003?
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Kadudu on November 04, 2024, 03:45:46 PM
"Reforms" that are mainly to line ones pockets are bound to fail miserably.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: patel on November 04, 2024, 04:47:24 PM
How many Kenyans had NHIF? Silly fool - Ruto is trying to bring everyone on board.
Precisely this is garbage. How do you gamble with peoples lives? How many kids died in 2003?
Sad. Especially when Ruto has to listen to these kind of stuff from Mogotio Bob  .
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: sema on November 04, 2024, 09:01:41 PM
The BIG problem with this is that the politicians and their families do NOT have to deal with SHIF or the public health care system in Kenya.

This is the problem of politicians across Africa. They have ZERO skin in the game , which makes their decisions terrible because they don’t suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

They give themselves very good private insurance then tell other Kenyans to just deal with it. This is madness
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Kadudu on November 04, 2024, 11:54:19 PM
The same thing in education sector. The people that make the education policy have their kids in private schools. They just do not care about the other ordinary Kenyans.

The BIG problem with this is that the politicians and their families do NOT have to deal with SHIF or the public health care system in Kenya.

This is the problem of politicians across Africa. They have ZERO skin in the game , which makes their decisions terrible because they don’t suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

They give themselves very good private insurance then tell other Kenyans to just deal with it. This is madness
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Nefertiti on November 05, 2024, 09:54:22 AM
Include police reforms.

I imagine it's middle class who are crying about SHIF and housing levy. Poor Kenyans need the service.

PPP also needs to stay on course.

Ruto must brace for even bigger resistance as he expand the tax base.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2024, 10:30:23 AM
Exactly.
The resistance to change is human nature.
GoK should endure teething challenges
And stayed foccused.

Few years later people will appreciate this.

Include police reforms.

I imagine it's middle class who are crying about SHIF and housing levy. Poor Kenyans need the service.

PPP also needs to stay on course.

Ruto must brace for even bigger resistance as he expand the tax bracket.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: gout on November 05, 2024, 11:07:23 AM
FPE and Mpesa are what reforms are. Accepted easily as everyone appreciates their use/importance.
Funny Ruto and Uhuru were against FPE.

This other is madness - creating problems in working systems -844, MGR and NHIF to bring expensive experiments for corruption and then start wailing resistance and teething problems.

Why the disruption not building on the experiences. KCSE practicals has no monies but you claim CBC will equip kids with competence.

The main impediment for hasoras in NHIF was private hospitals not offering services to hasoras, corruption and the economy. HOW does SHIF achieve this even after using force? NHIF corrupt network is going nowhere- they are insisting they cannot be fired.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: gout on November 05, 2024, 11:46:30 AM
And when these ordinary poor Kenyans call out the rubbish they are labelled as bitter, opposition, and even terrorists to be abducted and killed. Shouting poor ordinary kenyans is a moral path headed to purgatory when being used by corrupt thugs.

Any alternative voice in government calling out the rubbish is fired like Amina after the intention to stop rushing to CBC or hounded like Sossion to weeping.

The same thing in education sector. The people that make the education policy have their kids in private schools. They just do not care about the other ordinary Kenyans.

The BIG problem with this is that the politicians and their families do NOT have to deal with SHIF or the public health care system in Kenya.

This is the problem of politicians across Africa. They have ZERO skin in the game , which makes their decisions terrible because they don’t suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

They give themselves very good private insurance then tell other Kenyans to just deal with it. This is madness
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Nefertiti on November 05, 2024, 11:56:59 AM
FPE and Mpesa are what reforms are. Accepted easily as everyone appreciates their use/importance.
Funny Ruto and Uhuru were against FPE.

This other is madness - creating problems in working systems -844, MGR and NHIF to bring expensive experiments for corruption and then start wailing resistance and teething problems.

Why the disruption not building on the experiences. KCSE practicals has no monies but you claim CBC will equip kids with competence.

The main impediment for hasoras in NHIF was private hospitals not offering services to hasoras, corruption and the economy. HOW does SHIF achieve this even after using force? NHIF corrupt network is going nowhere- they are insisting they cannot be fired.

844 after 30 year experiment needed to go. Education committee of experts - Dr Eddah Gachukia, Prof Karega Mutahi, Prof Magogha, etc - came up with CBC. Education is hard nut - Ruto subcomittee only fine-tuned some over-costly module in 2022 that Knut/Kuppet wanted. Otherwise CBC is product of long consultative expert process.

SHIF also started years ago under NARC. It's inspired by UK NHS, ACA/ObamaCare, and even award-winning Rwanda CBHI that covers 90% of folks.

These schemes were not started by Ruto but he must see them through.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: gout on November 05, 2024, 12:03:03 PM
The roots of CBC are insidious - nobody wants to be associated with it. There is no policy paper yet. There is nowhere these names come up. Only bully Magoha took charge of the wolf after Amina said it was rubbish being rushed by the books cartel.

Disruptions are madness when you have 844 products running things al over the world to pretend to go back to post-independence mongrel just because of amnesia/nostalgia.

FPE and Mpesa are what reforms are. Accepted easily as everyone appreciates their use/importance.
Funny Ruto and Uhuru were against FPE.

This other is madness - creating problems in working systems -844, MGR and NHIF to bring expensive experiments for corruption and then start wailing resistance and teething problems.

Why the disruption not building on the experiences. KCSE practicals has no monies but you claim CBC will equip kids with competence.

The main impediment for hasoras in NHIF was private hospitals not offering services to hasoras, corruption and the economy. HOW does SHIF achieve this even after using force? NHIF corrupt network is going nowhere- they are insisting they cannot be fired.

844 after 30 year experiment needed to go. Education committee of experts - Dr Eddah Gachukia, Prof Karega Mutahi, Prof Magogha, etc - came up with CBC. Education is hard nut - Ruto subcomittee only fine-tuned some over-costly module in 2022 that Knut/Kuppet wanted. Otherwise CBC is product of long consultative expert process.

SHIF also started years ago under NARC. It's inspired by UK NHS, ACA/ObamaCare, and even award-winning Rwanda CBHI that covers 90% of folks.

These schemes were not started by Ruto but he must see them through.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Nefertiti on November 05, 2024, 12:15:19 PM
I am sure @gout would say police reforms are unnecessary!

Who did NHIF serve and how come Ngilu wanted it dramatically expanded into SHIF?

Did 844 system work? Really? What are the metrics? Kenya is still a poor country so experimentation is welcome.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: gout on November 05, 2024, 12:26:47 PM
The real reforms cannot happen despite being simple. Stopping police shaking down matatus and wines spirits has been my chorus.
Those in power allow these evils so that the police can do their bidding when called upon.
See how fast ruto has reconstituted the abduction killer squad.

Kenyan human capital is the star except for those not hiring who keep saying they can't find an employee.

I am sure @gout would say police reforms are unnecessary!

Who did NHIF serve and how come Ngilu wanted it dramatically expanded into SHIF?

Did 844 system work? Really? What are the metrics? Kenya is still a poor country so experimentation is welcome.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2024, 01:42:24 PM
Outside politics - you have a beautiful mind - and can see the BIG PICTURE.
Gout is suffering from gout and cynicism.

We need to be a little trusting - that GOK policies emanates from proffesioanals.

844 after 30 year experiment needed to go. Education committee of experts - Dr Eddah Gachukia, Prof Karega Mutahi, Prof Magogha, etc - came up with CBC. Education is hard nut - Ruto subcomittee only fine-tuned some over-costly module in 2022 that Knut/Kuppet wanted. Otherwise CBC is product of long consultative expert process.

SHIF also started years ago under NARC. It's inspired by UK NHS, ACA/ObamaCare, and even award-winning Rwanda CBHI that covers 90% of folks.

These schemes were not started by Ruto but he must see them through.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2024, 01:43:36 PM
How do we reform the police?
We have tried everything? vetting, etc.

For me police reform will start with simply sending every police man to their home village like primary teachers

Let see if they can shake their village matatus when everyone knows they are earning a salary.

Let see if they will harras their village mates.

The real reforms cannot happen despite being simple. Stopping police shaking down matatus and wines spirits has been my chorus.
Those in power allow these evils so that the police can do their bidding when called upon.
See how fast ruto has reconstituted the abduction killer squad.

Kenyan human capital is the star except for those not hiring who keep saying they can't find an employee.

I am sure @gout would say police reforms are unnecessary!

Who did NHIF serve and how come Ngilu wanted it dramatically expanded into SHIF?

Did 844 system work? Really? What are the metrics? Kenya is still a poor country so experimentation is welcome.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Kadudu on November 05, 2024, 03:59:39 PM
Hapo umedinya point!

Police have to be recruted and deployed locally. We will then not have the police housing probelm. Kila mtu atatoka kwa nyumba yake na kuenda kazini. The is the basis of all police reforms. The current situation was a colonial hangover. Recrute a policeman from Siaya to go police in Kwale. Only the top cadre of police should be deployed nationally. The rest should be locals.

How do we reform the police?
We have tried everything? vetting, etc.

For me police reform will start with simply sending every police man to their home village like primary teachers

Let see if they can shake their village matatus when everyone knows they are earning a salary.

Let see if they will harras their village mates.

Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2024, 06:54:56 PM
Exactly - Only OCS - should be an outsider.
Once you're promoted - to be OCS - you get deployed outside your county.
And you're only who will live in the police station.
The rest should live at home.
Unless they are on night duty.
Hapo umedinya point!

Police have to be recruted and deployed locally. We will then not have the police housing probelm. Kila mtu atatoka kwa nyumba yake na kuenda kazini. The is the basis of all police reforms. The current situation was a colonial hangover. Recrute a policeman from Siaya to go police in Kwale. Only the top cadre of police should be deployed nationally. The rest should be locals.

How do we reform the police?
We have tried everything? vetting, etc.

For me police reform will start with simply sending every police man to their home village like primary teachers

Let see if they can shake their village matatus when everyone knows they are earning a salary.

Let see if they will harras their village mates.

Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: sema on November 05, 2024, 09:54:50 PM
Include police reforms.

I imagine it's middle class who are crying about SHIF and housing levy. Poor Kenyans need the service.

PPP also needs to stay on course.

Ruto must brace for even bigger resistance as he expand the tax base.

You are not bright. At all. Do you not understand the concept of skin in the game?
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: sema on November 05, 2024, 10:02:27 PM
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My uncle is out of the Hospital - we had to pay cash. F**k this govt and it&#39;s SHIF/SHA nonsense, Mafala sana.</p>&mdash; #RecallJohnKiarie (@ettie_Jey) <a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SHA/ SHIF is not working. Paying cash is the norm. Wondering where all those monies deducted from our payslips or guys paid went to</p>&mdash; Марк Филипп (@markphilo) <a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SHIF only working online and on social media. In real life , patients have to pay cost of healthcare in cash. Yesterday alone I paid kshs 30,000 for healthcare. But you will see some semi illiterates defending SHIF after being paid kshs 537</p>&mdash; Rein (@Asamoh_) <a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 3, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Uasin Gishu County sends a Circular to all Facilities within the County to ask patients migrated from NHIF to SHIF to pay Cash. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RejectSHIF?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RejectSHIF</a> cc <a href="https://twitter.com/Sanga_JK?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Sanga_JK</a> <a href="https://t.co/qNgBnGhrNm">pic.twitter.com/qNgBnGhrNm</a></p>&mdash; Lagat Kipruto 🐘🐘🐘 (@ArapTilingi) <a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">SHIF isn&#39;t working, most public hospitals are using cash only, private hospitals aren&#39;t enrolling due to lack of remuneration from NHIF worth millions. This is the main killer rn. Our patients are suffering.</p>&mdash; Salim M Ishmael, M.D 🇰🇪 (@salimishmael_) <a href="?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Georgesoros on November 05, 2024, 11:36:28 PM
I feel for the 88% those who cant afford cash.
The old
the poor
children
unemployed youth
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Georgesoros on November 05, 2024, 11:41:19 PM
I am sure @gout would say police reforms are unnecessary!

Who did NHIF serve and how come Ngilu wanted it dramatically expanded into SHIF?

Did 844 system work? Really? What are the metrics? Kenya is still a poor country so experimentation is welcome.

New things are great, but killing masses so as to achieve your goal is as immoral as they come. Russian style of thinking.
Why was this rushed leaving thousands unable to pay their bills?
In Kenya no money no treatment.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: patel on November 06, 2024, 01:09:52 AM
I feel for the 88% those who cant afford cash.
The old
the poor
children
unemployed youth
It gets worse. While paying cash your salary gets deducted almost 3%.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: Georgesoros on November 06, 2024, 02:21:02 AM
I will completely understand if Kenyans were getting services for the amount of money they pay in taxes. Crime is all over because of unemployment, disease spreads due to environmental degradation, public education is almost DEAD. etc
Why would a sane person want to switch and  implement such a critical program in two years??
Too much taxes being paid nothing to show.
You pay shs 100 to 20 worth of services.
Then you're told there is no money.
Protest and you get shot.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: hk on November 07, 2024, 04:49:45 PM
SHIF is a tax not an insurance policy that's why its being charged as a percentage of income just like any other taxation measure . The same applies to hustle fund, its just like any other levy, its a means to raise funds not provision of services. SHIF its like medicare tax( I believe its a copy), instead of like medicare  being for the elderly and people with disability,  its meant for everyone. So clearly the payouts would be limited. So this isnt nhif reform its a money grab.
Kenya is a crime scene, 1.5% import taxation for sgr, if those funds were ringfenced the chinese loan would have been cleared at least 2 times over.  Until the rapacious government is starved off funds, kenya will remain a shithole country.
Title: Re: Teething problem should never dissuade reforms
Post by: RV Pundit on November 07, 2024, 05:42:30 PM
Its bigger crime to have million without any healthcare. Kenya endorsed Kk manifesto. It had those things