Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Nowayhaha on April 11, 2023, 05:12:16 PM
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He confirms Raila lost in 2007 and used blackmail to be let in government and its the same reason he is trying to use now as was with handshake.
Confirms Govtnm is wasteful
Confirms Govtm has no money and priorities are wrong
Confirms kibakis handled the economy well and mishandled politics ( what he calls politics of hubris and bravado)
Confirms Kenyas problem is debt
Thinks his ideas as stipulated in Manifesto can work while on the other hand says agriculture output is becoming low year by year while population is increasing.
Confirms Ukrainian Crisis has affected the financial markets due to infaltion and raising of interest rates
Ndii can become a good lecturer. I think he has finally bowed down to the fact theory and practicals are different things .
I can see he has become a politician how else does one explain years ago he was callinv for Kenyan divorce and 4 years later he says politics of demonstration and secession is dangerous politics .
One thing this government is refusing to accept is internal growth is driven by foreign exchange , why they still think agriculture SMEs , over taxation and building houses can make economy grow exponentially is beyond imagination .
Kenya is a very small country to prosper on its own . We need to export export and export one of the big component in doing that industries or attract foreign investment .
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You dont get it.
First mistake happenned when Kibaki mismanaged politics in 2003-2005.
All Kibaki needed was to respect LDP and stick to the MOU as gentleman.
LDP-NAK needed to split the gov and accomodate each other in peace & harmony.
Give Raila something small - bigger than minister - just a chief minister with more prados.
He would have become greatest president - would have won 2007 re-election.
Raila and company would have battled in 2013 with Kalonzo/Uhurus/Saitotis/whoever
Instead by 2005 - Kenya was tribal war zone.
LDP crew of mostly Luos/Kambas/Luhyas joined bitter Kalenjin in KANU to isolate Kibaki.
This eventually boiled over in 2007 into a civil war.
All Kibaki needed to do was simple
1) Respect MOU that he signed publicly
2) Respect the BOMAS process of constitution making
3) Enact a new constitution after Bomas process.
Raila made one big mistake too in 2008 like Kibaki all he needed was to accomodate Ruto.
Now he would have finished 10yrs and Ruto would be pork.
Uhuru was doing great until like kibaki in 2nd term he decided to throw Ruto under the bus.
That betrayal like 2003 Kibaki one then erupted into bitterness & hate.
Uhuru gov became dysfunctional as infighting, shouting, heckling and Jubilee chaos.
Uhuru had to spend 90 percent of his time worrying about Ruto and Ruto had to do the same.
Kibaki would have become the greatest president as he was economically the guy who understood things.
Now Ruto is going to win that title as he is gifted politically and economically.
Moi was good in politics and terrible in economics
Kibaki was good in economics and terrible in politics.
We have for first time a leader who get economics - can roll out terms like deficit, budget surplus, interest rates - etc like he does in politics.
Ruto has to learn from 2003 Kibaki, 2008 Raila and 2018 Uhuru - BE A GENTLEMAN - BE NICE - DO NOT ABUSE POWER - DO NOT THROW THOSE WHO HELPED YOU UNDER THE BUS - if you signed an MOU - stick with it. Then work for rest of kenya.
Ruto owes Ndiis/Gachagaue a lot in friendship & loyalty - for betrayal will breed bitterness - but he owes nothing Raila or Kenyattas. He owes Kenya the manifesto he promised to do XYZ.
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Hapo Pundit I agree with you 100%. Raila though a late comer to Narc did a very good job. I left Kenya in less than a year after Kibaki came to power and I remember as an international student how a lot of students were using the fact that Raila was demolishing properties constructed illegally to pave way for the bypasses we see today as a way of getting office of international programs to allow them more time to pay fees or take less credits. The pretext was that they had lost family businesses/ properties to the Crack down. Whatever happened to the man Kikuyus proudly called Njamba I can't explain. 2007 campaigns were just beyond toxic. My kids who never spoke a word in kikuyu always tell me how they were escorted by the military out of the Rift valley at the wee hours of dawn. Politics of betrayal and tribalism turned neighbors to savages. I hope we never go back there again.
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Kenya can only heal once we are honest and tell true honest stories like yours.
There is no doubt that Raila CONTRIBUTED A LOT to Kibaki winning.
GEMA basically abandoned Kibaki and run to Uhuru. Including the NOWAYAH fool here.
Some of us who had supported kibaki for decades knows this.
When Raila and KANU crew (Kalonzo, Saitoti, rest) broke off KANU - we hade HUGE moment in kenya.
I attended my first and only rally during Tosha moment.
I watched Raila and Kibaki in Uhuru park declare they had united against MOI.
It was MOST MOMENTOUS moment in kenya history.
Until then Uhuru and Moi the proffesori was winning.
Moi had turned GEMA head upside down by endorsing Uhuru.
Kikuyus for like two months had totally forgotten about Moi - and had tropped to KANU - it was surreal.
When Njenga Karume joined KANU - it was over for Kibaki.
Anyway personally I attended that rally - and then UON closed - we went for serious campaingn
My father a long time DP candidate - convinced an engineer son of Kenyatta era ambassador of China-Russia to run under NARC
So i spent lots of time in campaigns.
Raila when Kibaki got injured and was in London - took over the campaigns.
Raila didnt sleep - he worked very very hard.
Even most hateful of kikuyus knows his contribution to destroying KANU.
I personally on 24th and 25th was with Raila men and Raila himself - few days to election.
Kibaki messed up.
I quit DP - told my father I cannot be in a party of kikuyu tribalist - around 2004/2005.
Yes Luos were such a drag - everywhere you went - they were shouting this our goverment
University halls - they would force us to listen to gov news
Raila was all over - Nyongos - etc.
Kikuyus of worst kind slowly took over kibaki and it was over when Githongo quit. Would be akin to Ndii quiting statehouse and running to exile.
And correction there was no NARC.
We had NAK - under Kibaki, Charity and Kijana -
Kanu led by William Ruto used to make fun of them
It actually around those time I started noticing this eldoret dude.
Ruto used to say Kibaki, Ngilu & Kijana will finish Serena tea with their talks.
Before that we had Kamotho who'd steer off like a mad pastor on his rants.
Ruto was different - he would passionately defend KANU but wont veer or steer off - he'd still come out reasonable.
He was unlike anything in KANU.
I remember asking my nandi friend who he was - he told me he didnt know much as Ruto is uasin gishu dude- he only knew Henry Kosgey & type.
I told him this guy will one day become Kenya president.
Looking back - Ruto has incredible gift - that is hard to point - but he can literally sell your mother back to you.
NARC came when LDP and NAK agreed to merge in Serene hotel and came to Uhuru park in the only rally I ever attended.
Ndii has alluded to it - that he told Ndii you do the economics and I will sell it.
In my business experience I have met such people mostly americans who can sell anything.
For Ruto I dont know if it's inborn gift
or learnt skill in hawking...which he did in primary and high. school
Or selling insurances..,which did in campus and still do.
or selling Jesus christ..which he did in high school or campus.
But he certainly has the ability to sell anything - including hell - and make you look forward to it.
I had American partner - he was like give me talking points - just few minutes to presentation - you tell him this is xyz set - next time he is talking about - you're like dude - he is launching rockets in the sky - and the thing can also boil coffee - if you have low ambition. All that time you're mouth agape wondering how will we deliver??????????? Then he comes round and say forget about it - we are going to become rich :). Next week you're in your desk sweating trying to deliver at least 1/4 of his promises. It was almost certain he would nail the deal. Shida ni yenu to deliver.
To beat such gifted marketers is incredibly hard.
Hapo Pundit I agree with you 100%. Raila though a late comer to Narc did a very good job. I left Kenya in less than a year after Kibaki came to power and I remember as an international student how a lot of students were using the fact that Raila was demolishing properties constructed illegally to pave way for the bypasses we see today as a way of getting office of international programs to allow them more time to pay fees or take less credits. The pretext was that they had lost family businesses/ properties to the Crack down. Whatever happened to the man Kikuyus proudly called Njamba I can't explain. 2007 campaigns were just beyond toxic. My kids who never spoke a word in kikuyu always tell me how they were escorted by the military out of the Rift valley at the wee hours of dawn. Politics of betrayal and tribalism turned neighbors to savages. I hope we never go back there again.
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I agree with a lot of things all of you are alluding to but I think the biggest mistake in Kenya is the cut and paste constitutes copied from devolution in USA. It’s only good in theory or in countries like USA where even a small town or village has ways of generating income and therefore mostly independent from the federal government. In Kenya some of this counties generate little or no contribution to the national cake. It’s not because of lack of potential, some of the county leaders are incapable of thinking outside of central government or too greedy to care. Devolution in Kenya is just another way of at least sharing corruption in all corners of the country, how Kenya continues to finance this mega government boggles my mind. As long as our leaders keep thinking that tiling a primary school floor is a huge achievement worth social media mention, we are in a shthole. Case in point.. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5…. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5LA
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You dont get it.
First mistake happenned when Kibaki mismanaged politics in 2003-2005.
All Kibaki needed was to respect LDP and stick to the MOU as gentleman.
LDP-NAK needed to split the gov and accomodate each other in peace & harmony.
Give Raila something small - bigger than minister - just a chief minister with more prados.
He would have become greatest president - would have won 2007 re-election.
Raila and company would have battled in 2013 with Kalonzo/Uhurus/Saitotis/whoever
Instead by 2005 - Kenya was tribal war zone.
LDP crew of mostly Luos/Kambas/Luhyas joined bitter Kalenjin in KANU to isolate Kibaki.
This eventually boiled over in 2007 into a civil war.
All Kibaki needed to do was simple
1) Respect MOU that he signed publicly
2) Respect the BOMAS process of constitution making
3) Enact a new constitution after Bomas process.
Raila made one big mistake too in 2008 like Kibaki all he needed was to accomodate Ruto.
Now he would have finished 10yrs and Ruto would be pork.
Uhuru was doing great until like kibaki in 2nd term he decided to throw Ruto under the bus.
That betrayal like 2003 Kibaki one then erupted into bitterness & hate.
Uhuru gov became dysfunctional as infighting, shouting, heckling and Jubilee chaos.
Uhuru had to spend 90 percent of his time worrying about Ruto and Ruto had to do the same.
Kibaki would have become the greatest president as he was economically the guy who understood things.
Now Ruto is going to win that title as he is gifted politically and economically.
Moi was good in politics and terrible in economics
Kibaki was good in economics and terrible in politics.
We have for first time a leader who get economics - can roll out terms like deficit, budget surplus, interest rates - etc like he does in politics.
Ruto has to learn from 2003 Kibaki, 2008 Raila and 2018 Uhuru - BE A GENTLEMAN - BE NICE - DO NOT ABUSE POWER - DO NOT THROW THOSE WHO HELPED YOU UNDER THE BUS - if you signed an MOU - stick with it. Then work for rest of kenya.
Ruto owes Ndiis/Gachagaue a lot in friendship & loyalty - for betrayal will breed bitterness - but he owes nothing Raila or Kenyattas. He owes Kenya the manifesto he promised to do XYZ.
It is nice reading your chronology of events with amazing accuracy! You know Kenya politics and our politicians like nobody's business!
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I agree with a lot of things all of you are alluding to but I think the biggest mistake in Kenya is the cut and paste constitutes copied from devolution in USA. It’s only good in theory or in countries like USA where even a small town or village has ways of generating income and therefore mostly independent from the federal government. In Kenya some of this counties generate little or no contribution to the national cake. It’s not because of lack of potential, some of the county leaders are incapable of thinking outside of central government or too greedy to care. Devolution in Kenya is just another way of at least sharing corruption in all corners of the country, how Kenya continues to finance this mega government boggles my mind. As long as our leaders keep thinking that tiling a primary school floor is a huge achievement worth social media mention, we are in a shthole. Case in point.. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5…. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5LA
FB you kidding right? Nani alituroga jameni. Ati 150 million..is it Uganda or Venezuela currency? I used to think my sociology professor was racist because she always gave examples of how dumb things were in Africa but come to think of it She had a point. Corruption has no shame in our society. An insurance adjuster once told me that we have a tendency to exaggerate stuff value by a factor of four at a minimum. A few cases come to mind, real estate and cars. A house going for the same price in say Nairobi generates half or less in income compared to its alleged false comparison in say a suburb of Boston. A gas guzzler that is unfortunately a mark of success in Zamunda costs three times or more. Early 2000s one out of every 5 cars in Abuja or Lagos Nigeria was a Mercedes Benz at several times pricey compared to Europe or the US. Mwafrika and extravagant spending are joined at the hip. Everyone wants several homes and cars not out of necessity but mostly for ego. Let me not even talk about the counties and devolved Corruption. We took tribalism down to the counties where clanism and family ties are the new requirements for eating. God help us 🙏
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Kenya counties have to build capacity over time. You cant compare to US that has had devolution for a long time. These are teething problem. At least nobody in Bomet will hide under the cover of tribalism - that he or she is being targeted. It easy to highlight and deal with such graft cases.
We have to responsibly devolve funds - increase function over time as counties build their capacities.
Eventually each county should generate and use their taxes - and send the money to federal gov - opposite of what we do now - where Nairobi gov send the money down.
Devolution was not a mistake - it a mere start to where we need to go - federalism - where each county generate and use their own money - and spare a little to be given to national gov.
Mt kenya people who opposed federalism - would have benefited from it - because they would generate their own money and use it at source - but now all of us have to wait for KRA to collect and share the money.
I agree with a lot of things all of you are alluding to but I think the biggest mistake in Kenya is the cut and paste constitutes copied from devolution in USA. It’s only good in theory or in countries like USA where even a small town or village has ways of generating income and therefore mostly independent from the federal government. In Kenya some of this counties generate little or no contribution to the national cake. It’s not because of lack of potential, some of the county leaders are incapable of thinking outside of central government or too greedy to care. Devolution in Kenya is just another way of at least sharing corruption in all corners of the country, how Kenya continues to finance this mega government boggles my mind. As long as our leaders keep thinking that tiling a primary school floor is a huge achievement worth social media mention, we are in a shthole. Case in point.. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5…. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5LA
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Thanks. Yes, I spend most of my youths immersed into kenya politics.
It is nice reading your chronology of events with amazing accuracy! You know Kenya politics and our politicians like nobody's business!
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What is No way haha obsession with forcing the 2007 kool aid. Is it moral compass deflection attempt to defend involvement in mungiki revenge attacks. Or just the way we all chase certain demons?
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They did oppose as they thought they will always be on top. Wait till 2028 and Mt kenya folks will be at the forefront of federalism. Even now Mt Kenya is already in dispair despite it having a lion's share in the KK government. The masses are being told that the world is against Mt Kenya and many seem to believe it.
Kenya counties have to build capacity over time. You cant compare to US that has had devolution for a long time. These are teething problem. At least nobody in Bomet will hide under the cover of tribalism - that he or she is being targeted. It easy to highlight and deal with such graft cases.
We have to responsibly devolve funds - increase function over time as counties build their capacities.
Eventually each county should generate and use their taxes - and send the money to federal gov - opposite of what we do now - where Nairobi gov send the money down.
Devolution was not a mistake - it a mere start to where we need to go - federalism - where each county generate and use their own money - and spare a little to be given to national gov.
Mt kenya people who opposed federalism - would have benefited from it - because they would generate their own money and use it at source - but now all of us have to wait for KRA to collect and share the money.
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You nailed it. He must have done a lot of evil during 2007 violence that is haunting him.
What is No way haha obsession with forcing the 2007 kool aid. Is it moral compass deflection attempt to defend involvement in mungiki revenge attacks. Or just the way we all chase certain demons?
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Yes, their fear is irrational, they imagine majimbo, would mean they wont be able to move out, trade, live and etc in other counties. That is false because constitution of kenya will apply in all counties or jimbos.
And now they are going to pay huge price - because most of taxes will come from their regions - and then turkanas will wait - for KRA to share.
Then they will engage in low key 1man 1 shilling which dont make any sense. The real deal is to empower counties to collect and retain more and more of the money.
Instead of KRA collecting money and then sending it back - give counties the power to deduct and keep % of PAYE for all private and public sector employees - the same for VAT.
Why for example are counties remitting taxes of their own employees to KRA - instead of retaining the money and off-setting their balances of what is due to them? This will immediately reduce counties need by 20-30% - and they wont be begging and taking overdraf to pay salaries.
The extra that will be collected by Nairobi - can be shared mostly to poorer counties.
They did oppose as they thought they will always be on top. Wait till 2028 and Mt kenya folks will be at the forefront of federalism. Even now Mt Kenya is already in dispair despite it having a lion's share in the KK government. The masses are being told that the world is against Mt Kenya and many seem to believe it.
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Exactly. Who in the world told Kenyans all VAT and PAYE belongs to the National goverment?
Anyway, this way counties will be encouraged to have their people getting buying power and formal job creation in order to get PAYE revenue. Imagine how much revenue Kiambu alone today would have? Instead the people of Kiambu are being treated to circus on 1M 1Ksh debate. It is as if Mt Kenya alone can decide what kind of money allocation the whole of Kenya should adopt to at this juncture.
Yes, their fear is irrational, they imagine majimbo, would mean they wont be able to move out, trade, live and etc in other counties. That is false because constitution of kenya will apply in all counties or jimbos.
And now they are going to pay huge price - because most of taxes will come from their regions - and then turkanas will wait - for KRA to share.
Then they will engage in low key 1man 1 shilling which dont make any sense. The real deal is to empower counties to collect and retain more and more of the money.
Instead of KRA collecting money and then sending it back - give counties the power to deduct and keep % of PAYE for all private and public sector employees - the same for VAT.
Why for example are counties remitting taxes of their own employees to KRA - instead of retaining the money and off-setting their balances of what is due to them? This will immediately reduce counties need by 20-30% - and they wont be begging and taking overdraf to pay salaries.
The extra that will be collected by Nairobi - can be shared mostly to poorer counties.
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I agree with a lot of things all of you are alluding to but I think the biggest mistake in Kenya is the cut and paste constitutes copied from devolution in USA. It’s only good in theory or in countries like USA where even a small town or village has ways of generating income and therefore mostly independent from the federal government. In Kenya some of this counties generate little or no contribution to the national cake. It’s not because of lack of potential, some of the county leaders are incapable of thinking outside of central government or too greedy to care. Devolution in Kenya is just another way of at least sharing corruption in all corners of the country, how Kenya continues to finance this mega government boggles my mind. As long as our leaders keep thinking that tiling a primary school floor is a huge achievement worth social media mention, we are in a shthole. Case in point.. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5…. ?s=46&t=3-3-_ehcZbukDCK7hNe5LA
FB you kidding right? Nani alituroga jameni. Ati 150 million..is it Uganda or Venezuela currency? I used to think my sociology professor was racist because she always gave examples of how dumb things were in Africa but come to think of it She had a point. Corruption has no shame in our society. An insurance adjuster once told me that we have a tendency to exaggerate stuff value by a factor of four at a minimum. A few cases come to mind, real estate and cars. A house going for the same price in say Nairobi generates half or less in income compared to its alleged false comparison in say a suburb of Boston. A gas guzzler that is unfortunately a mark of success in Zamunda costs three times or more. Early 2000s one out of every 5 cars in Abuja or Lagos Nigeria was a Mercedes Benz at several times pricey compared to Europe or the US. Mwafrika and extravagant spending are joined at the hip. Everyone wants several homes and cars not out of necessity but mostly for ego. Let me not even talk about the counties and devolved Corruption. We took tribalism down to the counties where clanism and family ties are the new requirements for eating. God help us 🙏
Maybe they meant Zimbabwe dollar.
The money is gone
What happened to W. Ruto of Bomet???
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yes - you and I - are biggest champion of many years for devolution and federalism - until this is done - kenyans will continue looking at Nairobi - instead of focusing on their own counties.
Proper devolution mean the bottom-up - counties take the money - remit some to national gov - keep and use the rest as soon as they get it.
They dont give it to Nairobi to be stolen in Nairobi - and few crumbs sent to them. This is how it works in most countries. Almost all developed countries.
Flipping this - will encourage counties to focus on getting industries, investment, creating jobs - rather that now where everyone look at Nairobi. Nobody will care what happening in Nairobi that much.
Exactly. Who in the world told Kenyans all VAT and PAYE belongs to the National goverment?
Anyway, this way counties will be encouraged to have their people getting buying power and formal job creation in order to get PAYE revenue. Imagine how much revenue Kiambu alone today would have? Instead the people of Kiambu are being treated to circus on 1M 1Ksh debate. It is as if Mt Kenya alone can decide what kind of money allocation the whole of Kenya should adopt to at this juncture.
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You see why I say you are a Railalite
This is a Raila lie . Kibaki gave a good number of Ministries to Raila just look at the number of Ministers fired after referendumn in 2005.
You dont get it.
First mistake happenned when Kibaki mismanaged politics in 2003-2005.
All Kibaki needed was to respect LDP and stick to the MOU as gentleman.
LDP-NAK needed to split the gov and accomodate each other in peace & harmony.
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Raila was to be made PM but he started a journey of overthrowing Kibaki in that he was the sole cause of disfiguring Bomas initiative.
Do we have a PM post even in the current constitution ? Ask Ruto and Uhuru this question .
Give Raila something small - bigger than minister - just a chief minister with more prados
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Raila would be President in 2013 if he never betrayed Moi in 2002 and Kibaki as from 2003.
He acknowledged this mistake and tried to make amends in 2022 by wooing GEMA it was too late.
Ruto being the good student knew his road to Presidency was through GEMA he joined hands with GEMA in 2008 the rest is history.
The likes of railalites like Pundit will never understand why Ruto shifted to GEMA until now they want him to woo Luo Nyanza .
He would have become greatest president - would have won 2007 re-election.
Raila and company would have battled in 2013 with Kalonzo/Uhurus/Saitotis/whoever
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Another Raila lie
Bukusus were with Kibaki all the way check 2007 results
40% kambas were with Kibaki something even Ruto couldnt get in 2022 elections
Luos and Kalenjins were an item called ODM which its in your core heart
Ruto left ODM immediately after 2007 elections the hardcore anti GEMA kalenjins like you are still rooted in ODM
Instead by 2005 - Kenya was tribal war zone.
LDP crew of mostly Luos/Kambas/Luhyas joined bitter Kalenjin in KANU to isolate Kibaki.
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Civil war was as a result of Raila incitement , he is trying to cause another civil war now with Maandamano . Raila and his followers like you believe violence is a means to achieve goals
This eventually boiled over in 2007 into a civil war.
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Youre using the discredited 2007 election to make the usual false premise.
2005 - Kibaki lost the referendum - 42 % versus 58%.
Just after he had won 2002 by 67%.
Another Raila lie
Bukusus were with Kibaki all the way check 2007 results
40% kambas were with Kibaki something even Ruto couldnt get in 2022 elections
Luos and Kalenjins were an item called ODM which its in your core heart
Ruto left ODM immediately after 2007 elections the hardcore anti GEMA kalenjins like you are still rooted in ODM
Instead by 2005 - Kenya was tribal war zone.
LDP crew of mostly Luos/Kambas/Luhyas joined bitter Kalenjin in KANU to isolate Kibaki.
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Like Ndii explained - Kibaki got undone by 2005. From there it was DOWHILL for him and Kenya. He ended causing millions of suffering and soiled his legacy.
It the most epic capitulation.
From winning by almost 70% in 2003 - and 2yrs - he had isolated himself.
From getting almost every tribe - including 1/3 of Kalenjin - to support NARC - he immediately become an insular tribalist - and LOST the country.
Biggest COCKUP in history of kenya politics.
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Typical ODmer you are , Ruto lost 2010 referendum but won 2013 elections a fact.
Who goes to vote in a referendum ? Ruto won 2022 with slightly over than 1% should he rule Kenya ?
Youre using the discredited 2007 election to make the usual false premise.
2005 - Kibaki lost the referendum - 42 % versus 58%.
Just after he had won 2002 by 67%.
Another Raila lie
Bukusus were with Kibaki all the way check 2007 results
40% kambas were with Kibaki something even Ruto couldnt get in 2022 elections
Luos and Kalenjins were an item called ODM which its in your core heart
Ruto left ODM immediately after 2007 elections the hardcore anti GEMA kalenjins like you are still rooted in ODM
Instead by 2005 - Kenya was tribal war zone.
LDP crew of mostly Luos/Kambas/Luhyas joined bitter Kalenjin in KANU to isolate Kibaki.
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Good you note Raila betrayed Ruto in 2008, what about Moi betrayal in 2002, and Kibaki betrayal 2003-2005.
There is a reason Ruto mistrusts Raila , your trust for Raila is very evident….. please return to ODM prodigal son …..
Raila made one big mistake too in 2008 like Kibaki all he needed was to accomodate Ruto.
Now he would have finished 10yrs and Ruto would be pork
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Uhuru used Raila to contain Ruto and thus loot , in that doing betrayed GEMA.Ruto can even decide to do the same snd he will suffer consequences come 2027.
You like having your cake and eating it, the other day you said Kibaki treated Raila with kids gloves and then today you say Kibaki betrayed Raila , Fact is Raila betrayed Moi and Kibaki with hopes of overthrowing Kibaki in 2007 , indeed he ran against Kibaki in 2007 you expected Kibaki to sit and handover power like a fool to Raila.
Ruto knows Raila will run against him in 2027 you expect him to sit and handover power . People are not as foolish as you think.
Uhuru was doing great until like kibaki in 2nd term he decided to throw Ruto under the bus.
That betrayal like 2003 Kibaki one then erupted into bitterness & hate.
Uhuru gov became dysfunctional as infighting, shouting, heckling and Jubilee chaos.
Uhuru had to spend 90 percent of his time worrying about Ruto and Ruto had to do the same.
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I forgot Moi betrayal.
Moron - I keep telling you this - I supported Raila for shortest period of time - from around August 2007 to Jan 2008.
After kibaki betrayal - I was for Kalonzo - like many Kalenjin.
No sane Kalenjin can ever be comfortable with Raila as a leader. 2007 was BRIEF period when bitterness & anger overtook Kalenjin nation.
You simply dont understand Kalenjin thinking, pysche and outlook.
Maybe you think we are nilotes :) and are in bed Jaluos; Before Kikuyus knew about Jaluos; Kalenjin had lived with them for 500yrs in Kenya;
Kalenjin took a VERY HUGE LEAP OF FAITH in RAILA in 2007.
Ruto himself was NOT for Raila. He only supported him as last resort. Maybe he was for Raila for max of 4 months.
Ruto wanted Kalonzo. But Kalenjin were so angry they were unreasonable.
Kalenjin have GEMA like view on leadership - just not the selfishness.
That is where Kalenjin and GEMA differ - we dont belive in being selfish.
In 2002 - Kalenjin expected Moi to pick Saitoti or Kalonzo or maDVD. No one was ever comfortable with Raila.
Kalenjin are real men who do not like boys like Raila - we want leaders who are calm, collected, sober and peaceful.
Go to nearest border btw Jaluo and Kipsigis or Nandi - and find how many intermarriages has happened since 500yrs - almost NONE. It just recently that you find one or two.
Move to Gusii - and Kipsigis have no problem at all at all with Gusii - except for witchcraft.
Yes Kalenjin and Maa have "nilotic" fratenity as culture is similar, outlook similar, but not Luos. Luos have fraternity with Luhyas.
Good you note Raila betrayed Ruto in 2008, what about Moi betrayal in 2002, and Kibaki betrayal 2003-2005.
There is a reason Ruto mistrusts Raila , your trust for Raila is very evident….. please return to ODM prodigal son …..
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Priort to 2002 elections GEMA had been warned that Raila was going to betray Kibaki , he immediately did that in 2003.
They user to call Raila Njamba for betraying Moi , he fought kibaki the Kigwouya from 2003 to 2005 , right now Ruto is the Njamba , if he joins hands with Raila you will be puzzled come 2027.
Hapo Pundit I agree with you 100%. Raila though a late comer to Narc did a very good job. I left Kenya in less than a year after Kibaki came to power and I remember as an international student how a lot of students were using the fact that Raila was demolishing properties constructed illegally to pave way for the bypasses we see today as a way of getting office of international programs to allow them more time to pay fees or take less credits. The pretext was that they had lost family businesses/ properties to the Crack down. Whatever happened to the man Kikuyus proudly called Njamba I can't explain. 2007 campaigns were just beyond toxic. My kids who never spoke a word in kikuyu always tell me how they were escorted by the military out of the Rift valley at the wee hours of dawn. Politics of betrayal and tribalism turned neighbors to savages. I hope we never go back there again.
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You have morals of Koinange street slut.
HOW DID RAILA BETRAY MOI???????????????
Moi lied to Raila and betrayed him.
Raila took Nyachae money and betrayed him.
Kibaki betrayed Raila.
Raila has is own problems but Mgala muuwe haki mpe.
Youre one most despicable people here.
Priort to 2002 elections GEMA had been warned that Raila was going to betray Kibaki , he immediately did that in 2003.
They user to call Raila Njamba for betraying Moi , he fought kibaki the Kigwouya from 2003 to 2005 , right now Ruto is the Njamba , if he joins hands with Raila you will be puzzled come 2027.
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For GEMA to live happily with Kalenjin they just need to fix one think - SELFISHNESS - everything else ryhmes.
Kalenjin are generous to a fault.
Kalenjin hate selfish people.
If not hate - they look down upon a selfish person - like we do to Dorobos or Ogiek.
So quit the nonsense about 1man 1 shilling or attacking poor Somalis - that will make Kalenjin blood boil.
They will see you as sub-human good for nothing dorobo.
A dog.
At least for kipsigis - such people - are called dogs.
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Nowayaha,
One thing Kalenjin and Luo share - is of course that selfness and feeling of justice & equality.
Kalenjin like Luos believe all men are equal.
Kalenjin and Luos are by nature communal - communists.
And that is departure point with most Bantu societies who believe in hierarchy, private ownership, and capitalism.
I think Kalenjin are probably only nilotes to embrace capitalism and private ownership
Maasai, Luos, turkana - even now - dont understand that one has is own land/house/wife/kids
All land is communal - you graze your cows - without any fence.
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When I say you are an ODmer and Railalite I mean it.This is the evidence.
You see most Raila followers reason like you. They even think its Ruto who betrayed Raila in 2008.
Why Ruto mistrusts Raila is because he know he plays politics of betrayal he knows Raila betrayed Moi and Kibaki for political expediency.
Heck he even betrayed Kalonzo in 2022 with Martha Karua for the same. I can bet that he is ready to betray Kalonzo once again if Ruto decides to handshake him .
Raila and betrayal is one term , he thinks and believes its politics for him .You as his follower you subscribe to the same philosophy.
You have morals of Koinange street slut.
HOW DID RAILA BETRAY MOI???????????????
Moi lied to Raila and betrayed him.
Raila took Nyachae money and betrayed him.
Kibaki betrayed Raila.
Raila has is own problems but Mgala muuwe haki mpe.
Youre one most despicable people here.
Priort to 2002 elections GEMA had been warned that Raila was going to betray Kibaki , he immediately did that in 2003.
They user to call Raila Njamba for betraying Moi , he fought kibaki the Kigwouya from 2003 to 2005 , right now Ruto is the Njamba , if he joins hands with Raila you will be puzzled come 2027.
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More Koinange street like morals.
Like I have said almost all politician are betrayers.
Moi lied to Raila, Kalonzo, Saitoti and MaDVD - then eventually pulled a rabbit out.
Ruto was part of the Moi deal.
Moi betrayed Raila, Kalonzo and team - that is why they quit KANU and joined LDP.
LDP then had talks with Ford-People - Raila lied to Nyachae and took his money.
On the day of signing LDP-Ford-People deal - he run to Kibaki and singed NAK-LDP deal
They formed NARC
Kibaki then betrayed Raila, Kalonzo and LDP.
They formed ODM-K with KANU.
Kalonzo was edged out by Raila - Kalenjin were the deal breakers or makers -
Kalonzo mistake was to be too soft (raila was Gachagua of then)
Kalenjin wanted someone whod bring pain to Kibaki and GEMA - and they choose Raila.
Then 2007 happened.
Kalenjin went on rampage.
Raila chickened out - Kalenjin realized they had trusted a coward who was no different from Kalonzo- he was all talk NO SHOW
Kalenjin then were going for the broke.
Ruto then realize huge mistake had happened and immediately sued for peace with GEMA - GEMA would be added 10yrs to appease them.
For Kalenjin had gone hard thinking Raila would go the whole hog.
And to avoid exposure kalenjin had caused - Kikuyus got 10 more years.
It hard arguing with someone with morals of a slut.
When you say I am pro XYZ - the only politician I have eaten his money is late Arap Ngeny - in 2001 when he was minister of water.
When I say you are an ODmer and Railalite I mean it.This is the evidence.
You see most Raila followers reason like you. They even think its Ruto who betrayed Raila in 2008.
Why Ruto mistrusts Raila is because he know he plays politics of betrayal he knows Raila betrayed Moi and Kibaki for political expediency.
Heck he even betrayed Kalonzo in 2022 with Martha Karua for the same. I can bet that he is ready to betray Kalonzo once again if Ruto decides to handshake him .
Raila and betrayal is one term , he thinks and believes its politics for him .You as his follower you subscribe to the same philosophy.
You have morals of Koinange street slut.
HOW DID RAILA BETRAY MOI???????????????
Moi lied to Raila and betrayed him.
Raila took Nyachae money and betrayed him.
Kibaki betrayed Raila.
Raila has is own problems but Mgala muuwe haki mpe.
Youre one most despicable people here.
Priort to 2002 elections GEMA had been warned that Raila was going to betray Kibaki , he immediately did that in 2003.
They user to call Raila Njamba for betraying Moi , he fought kibaki the Kigwouya from 2003 to 2005 , right now Ruto is the Njamba , if he joins hands with Raila you will be puzzled come 2027.