Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: sema on August 31, 2022, 10:28:01 PM
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The following was extracted from a website: 19 of the worlds 20 poorest countries are in Africa
We can express this in three phases.
Prior to the Age of Exploration, most of Africa was simply 'backward' - at least compared to the other major civilizations. Africa as a whole isn't well structured for complex civilizations for a variety of reasons, but most notably because complex civilizations tend to be structured around waterways. Not only is most of Africa lacking in navigable waterways that can form the basis of agriculture, but it is lacking in protected ports.
Once the Age of Exploration kicked off, African civilizations came in contact with far wealthier and more productive European ones. This lead to a situation where the only trade good of any value from Africa was slaves. Ultimately, this meant that you had slave-based economies on the coast and the inland regions were destroyed by those slave-based economies.
Then the Europeans banned slavery.
This lead to the collapse of the coastal slave-based economies and the inland areas were already effectively ruined by centuries of slave-raiding.
When industrialized European discovered resources only useful for industrialized nations, they quickly moved to exploit these resources. However, they did so by importing all the expertise necessary build/maintain the infrastructure for exploiting those resources.
Now fast forward to the post-World War II era. The European nations are no longer able or willing to maintain their control over the region, so they turn it back over to the native governments. Unfortunately, those native governments were drawn from a populace that had barely advanced beyond the subsistence-level agriculture phase of technology. They had no ability to maintain the infrastructure they had, much less improve on it because they lacked the skilled laborers necessary.
To compound this, almost all such nations implemented highly restrictive across-the-board trade barriers with the rest of the world. So not only couldn't they make anything domestically (due to lack of skills), they couldn't even import foreign expertise in the form of goods.
This lead to dysfunctional economies run by strongmen who lined their own pockets by selling off natural resources. No one could challenge them because they were the only ones with any wealth to buy foreign goods - and you needed foreign goods if you were going to resist the strongmen.
Agree or Disagree?
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The following was extracted from a website: 19 of the worlds 20 poorest countries are in Africa
We can express this in three phases.
Prior to the Age of Exploration, most of Africa was simply 'backward' - at least compared to the other major civilizations. Africa as a whole isn't well structured for complex civilizations for a variety of reasons, but most notably because complex civilizations tend to be structured around waterways. Not only is most of Africa lacking in navigable waterways that can form the basis of agriculture, but it is lacking in protected ports.
Once the Age of Exploration kicked off, African civilizations came in contact with far wealthier and more productive European ones. This lead to a situation where the only trade good of any value from Africa was slaves. Ultimately, this meant that you had slave-based economies on the coast and the inland regions were destroyed by those slave-based economies.
Then the Europeans banned slavery.
This lead to the collapse of the coastal slave-based economies and the inland areas were already effectively ruined by centuries of slave-raiding.
When industrialized European discovered resources only useful for industrialized nations, they quickly moved to exploit these resources. However, they did so by importing all the expertise necessary build/maintain the infrastructure for exploiting those resources.
Now fast forward to the post-World War II era. The European nations are no longer able or willing to maintain their control over the region, so they turn it back over to the native governments. Unfortunately, those native governments were drawn from a populace that had barely advanced beyond the subsistence-level agriculture phase of technology. They had no ability to maintain the infrastructure they had, much less improve on it because they lacked the skilled laborers necessary.
To compound this, almost all such nations implemented highly restrictive across-the-board trade barriers with the rest of the world. So not only couldn't they make anything domestically (due to lack of skills), they couldn't even import foreign expertise in the form of goods.
This lead to dysfunctional economies run by strongmen who lined their own pockets by selling off natural resources. No one could challenge them because they were the only ones with any wealth to buy foreign goods - and you needed foreign goods if you were going to resist the strongmen.
Agree or Disagree?
I have no idea. But Bazungu left on average 60 years ago. 60 years of relative freedom for Africans to chart their own paths. So stop blaming foreigners.
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I agree leadership is what makes the biggest difference in the fortune of a country.Meles Zenawi took Ethiopia from bottom of everything to a no 20 or 30s from the bottom in two decades... without any mineral discovery. Rwanda and Burundi are twins but Kagame is pulling Rwanda out of poverty while Burundi is bottom of bottoms . Intelligent serious leadership will pull their companies or organization or countries out of a rut... Africa needs to elect people with track record of transforming and changing things.. poverty is temporary situation
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It is like a 60 year man blaming his parents for his misery.
Even China, South Korea and many Asian countries were colonised some 80 years back. Why do they not play that old song of being colonised like African countries?
I have no idea. But Bazungu left on average 60 years ago. 60 years of relative freedom for Africans to chart their own paths. So stop blaming foreigners.
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I agree leadership is what makes the biggest difference in the fortune of a country.Meles Zenawi took Ethiopia from bottom of everything to a no 20 or 30s from the bottom in two decades... without any mineral discovery. Rwanda and Burundi are twins but Kagame is pulling Rwanda out of poverty while Burundi is bottom of bottoms . Intelligent serious leadership will pull their companies or organization or countries out of a rut... Africa needs to elect people with track record of transforming and changing things.. poverty is temporary situation
without mzungu Ethiopia would still be a hunger bowl
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You dont discredit work done by Meles - Ruto is the next heir apparent of Meles Zenawi - Africa most brilliant leader ever
without mzungu Ethiopia would still be a hunger bowl
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Learn to praise people after their deeds and not on credit.
You dont discredit work done by Meles - Ruto is the next heir apparent of Meles Zenawi - Africa most brilliant leader ever :o
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I have keenly followed Ruto performance, brilliance and leadership.If there is anyone with a shot at becoming a meles zenawi - it's him. Ruto should immediately enrol in post graduate diploma in economics - because that only knowledge gap he has - he needs to run the gov like the BOSS.
Learn to praise people after their deeds and not on credit.
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People seem to have a lot of confidence in Ruto's abilities, but at the end of the day, he will be leading low IQ Africans and not high IQ Scandinavians. CAn he pull Kenya out of poverty given what he has to work with?
Also, Ethiopia remains a dirt poor African country. I actually think it's one of the worst places and I'm always stunned when I watch a video of it and see how poor rural Ethiopia is (there's something "off" with Ethiopians)
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We measure progress from status quo to what is possible in 10 or 30 yrs.Dont expect Kenya to be developed country in next 30yrs.But we can reach south Africa level of middle class..we are already better than most of neighbors for having better leaders than them.Ruto aim should be to move Kenya from low middle class to upper middle class by tripling per Capita
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There are no shortcuts, countries produce or provide services into prosperity. A political messiah who'll right all the wrongs is just a fallacy. Take bangladesh, their textile industry is booming, driven by indigenous entrepreneurs, government relegated to minimum or zero role. Africa needs creative destruction in all economic sectors to increase productivity, this is what will usher in prosperity.
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Africa is a victim whose own guardians (government) add significantly to her abuse. Kenya is a great example of how mwafrika has difficulty moving up the economic ladder even when given a level playing field. When we became independent in 1963 under Kenyatta senior, we had the same GDP as South Korea. Both countries were categorized as poor with low GDP per capita and high poverty rates. Our population was identical, but we were blessed and cursed to be five times larger in land mass than Korea. We took the socialist road and South Korea took the capitalist road. 60 years later, South Korea is home to global behemoths such as Samsung, LG, Posco, Hyundai and KIA Motors. While we have nothing to write home about.
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Are you serious?
The difference between Kenya and South Korea is the family of the first president of Kenya is the richest family in Kenya followed by the family of the second president of Kenya. Does anybody even know the first president of South Korea?
The richest people in South Korea are not politicians or children of former politicians. They are enterprenuers with something to show of what they manufacture.
Now watch another politician's family in Kenya move up the ladder in wealth in the next 10 years.
Africa is a victim whose own guardians (government) add significantly to her abuse. Kenya is a great example of how mwafrika has difficulty moving up the economic ladder even when given a level playing field. When we became independent in 1963 under Kenyatta senior, we had the same GDP as South Korea. Both countries were categorized as poor with low GDP per capita and high poverty rates. Our population was identical, but we were blessed and cursed to be five times larger in land mass than Korea. We took the socialist road :o and South Korea took the capitalist road. 60 years later, South Korea is home to global behemoths such as Samsung, LG, Posco, Hyundai and KIA Motors. While we have nothing to write home about.
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There are no shortcuts, countries produce or provide services into prosperity. A political messiah who'll right all the wrongs is just a fallacy. Take bangladesh, their textile industry is booming, driven by indigenous entrepreneurs, government relegated to minimum or zero role. Africa needs creative destruction in all economic sectors to increase productivity, this is what will usher in prosperity.
toThere are no shortcuts, countries produce or provide services into prosperity. A political messiah who'll right all the wrongs is just a fallacy. Take bangladesh, their textile industry is booming, driven by indigenous entrepreneurs, government relegated to minimum or zero role. Africa needs creative destruction in all economic sectors to increase productivity, this is what will usher in prosperity.
Without political leadership providing stability and predictability that can't work...gov need to provide stable macro economics, infrastructure and security..then regulate the private sector in a fair to allow capitalism or private enterprise to thrive.That requires leaders who can provide security, stability, infrastructure, law and order . Finally gov should invest in social programs like education and healthcare.Then country will move slowly away from poverty
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But we can reach south Africa level of middle class..
South Africa has 6 million mzungus' of German/dutch descent. Kenya doesn't have that. The other myth is that kenya was on poor with south korea. We never were. S. Korea had universities going back to the 4th century. They just needed to re-orient their societies, get out of war and they were bound to take off.
Ruto will have to deal with 100% Africans. No south koreans and no 6 million mzungu's.
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Botswana and Namibia are middle class.. gazillions other countries mostly in magreb or supra Sahara .
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There are no shortcuts, countries produce or provide services into prosperity. A political messiah who'll right all the wrongs is just a fallacy. Take bangladesh, their textile industry is booming, driven by indigenous entrepreneurs, government relegated to minimum or zero role. Africa needs creative destruction in all economic sectors to increase productivity, this is what will usher in prosperity.
In a nutshell. You become richer when you start producing shit that people want.
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There are no shortcuts, countries produce or provide services into prosperity. A political messiah who'll right all the wrongs is just a fallacy. Take bangladesh, their textile industry is booming, driven by indigenous entrepreneurs, government relegated to minimum or zero role. Africa needs creative destruction in all economic sectors to increase productivity, this is what will usher in prosperity.
In a nutshell. You become richer when you start producing shit that people want.
The issues is how do you get there...you have crawl before you walk then run then manufacturer shiet...we cannot dismiss all ..it's important for Kenya to start running now...
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In addition IEBC have the database of Which KIEMS kit and SN were distributed per each polling station. I believe this info should be in the affidavits.
IEBC explained the error of having 2 SN but indicated there are different identifiers.
Iebc have agreed to bring kiems kit..of two polling stations.Again the case is on the petition...these are just drama
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In a nutshell. You become richer when you start producing shit that people want.
Yes, Africans have to start making things that people want. We can't keep talking about democracy, constitutions, amendments, elections while making nothing. The countries will just remain poor.
Why can't Africans make anything though? Lets start with Kenya. What do they manufacture that the rest of the world might need or want?
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In a nutshell. You become richer when you start producing shit that people want.
Yes, Africans have to start making things that people want. We can't keep talking about democracy, constitutions, amendments, elections while making nothing. The countries will just remain poor.
Why can't Africans make anything though? Lets start with Kenya. What do they manufacture that the rest of the world might need or want?
No factories? Still the variables are too many. HK tends to have a better grasp on the topic. But, yes, Africans for whatever the reason, are not producing things(beyond primary goods) that anyone values.
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Are you serious?
The difference between Kenya and South Korea is the family of the first president of Kenya is the richest family in Kenya followed by the family of the second president of Kenya. Does anybody even know the first president of South Korea?
The richest people in South Korea are not politicians or children of former politicians. They are enterprenuers with something to show of what they manufacture.
Now watch another politician's family in Kenya move up the ladder in wealth in the next 10 years.
Africa is a victim whose own guardians (government) add significantly to her abuse. Kenya is a great example of how mwafrika has difficulty moving up the economic ladder even when given a level playing field. When we became independent in 1963 under Kenyatta senior, we had the same GDP as South Korea. Both countries were categorized as poor with low GDP per capita and high poverty rates. Our population was identical, but we were blessed and cursed to be five times larger in land mass than Korea. We took the socialist road :o and South Korea took the capitalist road. 60 years later, South Korea is home to global behemoths such as Samsung, LG, Posco, Hyundai and KIA Motors. While we have nothing to write home about.
Are you serious?
Yes, I am serious. After independence, we adopted what was called "African Socialism" to symbolize our ideological standpoint. Please see the link below
https://www.treasury.gov.za/coopbank/publications/Kenya%20document.pdf (https://www.treasury.gov.za/coopbank/publications/Kenya%20document.pdf)
Does anybody even know the first president of South Korea?
Syngman Rhee was the first president.
The richest people in South Korea are not politicians or children of former politicians. They are enterprenuers with something to show of what they manufacture.
Now watch another politician's family in Kenya move up the ladder in wealth in the next 10 years.
If you have time, read Asian Century by John west. It talks about how South Korea developed from rags to riches under President Park Chung-hee in the the 1960s and 1970s. The guy laid the foundations for comprehensive transformation of the Korean economy, society and politics through his guided capitalism. He was the father of President Park Geun-hye the first woman to be elected president of South Korea. He was a ruthless dictator who came to power in 1961 following a military coup. He cooped up the nation’s richest businessmen into his economic development project. They were offered access to low rate finance, free foreign technology, protection from imports and foreign investment, export subsidies, tax breaks, cheap labor and other favors, if they would develop industries.