Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: mya88 on November 11, 2014, 05:05:48 PM
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Three public universities have been forced to recruit lecturers from foreign countries to meet fresh quality demands by the Engineers Board of Kenya.
The board is dissatisfied with the quality of graduates and this has seen it suspend nearly all engineering programmes in 22 public universities and their colleges until certain specifications are met.
The move has thrown in jeopardy the careers of thousands of students pursuing the courses.
Kenyatta University (KU), Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology (JKuat) and Technical University of Mombasa are some of the institutions currently hiring engineering lecturers from the United Kingdom, Netherlands, India, Korea and China, university administrators told the Nation.
There are 8, 700 trained engineers in Kenya at the moment, according to the EBK. Out of this, only 2, 000 have been licensed to practise.
The ministry of Education said it was in talks with the board to determine the fate of thousands of students pursuing engineering courses that have not been approved.
For an engineer to practice in Kenya, they must be graduates of a university approved by the board and worked under a ‘competent’ engineering firm for at least three years. They are then registered and given a certificate to practise
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Engineering-courses-in-Kenya-public-universities-suspended-/-/1056/2517024/-/10pdx0f/-/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Engineering-courses-in-Kenya-public-universities-suspended-/-/1056/2517024/-/10pdx0f/-/index.html)
Engineering education in 22 public universities of bogus quality? How? Who was monitoring these institutions? Can someone explain to me how we have 8500 Engineers in Kenya and yet we recruit the Chinese to pretty do pretty much of everything for us. Why is it that only 2000 engineers are licensed to practice…where are the other 6500? Why can’t the government tap into the local manpower which would be cheaper to rebuild the country and the much needed infrastructure?
For one the bureaucracy surrounding licensing should be reduced. Right now you have to have worked under a competent firm for at least 3 years after graduation…..where are the firms hiring student’s fresh from college. Nowhere else have I heard of licensing after productive work, I always though or at least assumed that you at a minimum needed a license to begin productive work in the field of study. That is how it’s done in the other countries.
We also have very many educated Kenyans in the Diaspora who would be more than willing to work for the Kenyan government or at least on advisory role on skills learned abroad. Why not pay them well to come and work? Jubilee gov’ needs to wake up.
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It would be interesting if they could highlight some of the quality problems.
Is it just a certification test that they failed?
Is this something reflected in their work(for the tiny minority with work experience)?
Are they saying they have civil engineers who cannot design a road? Or electronics engineers who don't know what a capacitor is?
It seems like a very vague statement by EBK.
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Vice-chancellors and the EBK would meet this week to determine the next move for KU, JKUAT, Egerton University, Technical University of Mombasa, Maseno University and all colleges offering engineering courses
I dont think its the certification, given how long you need to get it. They are being really vague about the discrepancies. I just cannot understand how all 22 facilities can be affected at the same time. That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized
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This is nonsense.When do a professional body like EB controls education?. They should only control membership to that body. The course should be vet by CHE (Commission of higher education). We should have normal engineers..and engineers certified by EB. The same way you have lawyers [degree holders] and advocates[who passes some extra exams].
Not every kenyan trained engineer wants to be "Registered Engineer" or practising. Most of them in fact arm themselves with engineering degree but end up in IT (esp Telcoms) , some go to MBAS and become business managers, some of them proceed to further education and join academia, some of them proceed abroad and work toward qualifying for those countries EB...in short education has wider mandate than professional concerns of EB.
This is a cartel trying to stifle education. That way you have a few overfed 2,000 engineers all mostly working for gov in country of 45M people.
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Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?
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This is nonsense.When do a professional body like EB controls education?. They should only control membership to that body. The course should be vet by CHE (Commission of higher education). We should have normal engineers..and engineers certified by EB. The same way you have lawyers [degree holders] and advocates[who passes some extra exams].
Not every kenyan trained engineer wants to be "Registered Engineer" or practising. Most of them in fact arm themselves with engineering degree but end up in IT (esp Telcoms) , some go to MBAS and become business managers, some of them proceed to further education and join academia, some of them proceed abroad and work toward qualifying for those countries EB...in short education has wider mandate than professional concerns of EB.
This is a cartel trying to stifle education. That way you have a few overfed 2,000 engineers all mostly working for gov in country of 45M people.
Oh come on Pundit……are you saying Lawyers in Kenya are only degree holders and are not licensed by a licensing body to practice law? Is it also optional to register such licensing? What is the point of getting an engineering degree and not getting registered or licensing? Even if you end up in IT or whatever, that degrees and license can come in handy in case you lose your job or change careers. To me it seems to me the remaining 6500 are tarmac king somewhere instead of gainful employment. I am not even surprised how EB has their arses all up in this issue. That is the trend in Kenya where everyone is everything starting from the Top.
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They can practice..but on certain projects where say gov or city council demand one must be registered engineer they would pass..but definitely a person with engineering degree should be free to open his juakali and design something.
Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?
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People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.
EB is a professional body..with professional exam and requirement. They should stick to that. They should be able to register an engineer who trained in Uganda or US....as long as they can pass exam and requirement. They cannot go round the world demanding that universities abide by XYZ. That is NOT their mandate. That is mandate of CHE. Commission of HIGHER EDUCATION. EB should ensure the certification process is foolproof so any graduate from funny university in India or River road...will automatically fail.
Universities job is to offer education[wider]...not to train professionals...ready to start work on day one. That is unrealistic. That would restrict university role.
EB is quite obviously a cartel trying to ensure fewer and fewer engineers are joining their lucrative trade...where they sit at several gov ministries...approving stuff...after heavy bribe.
Heck what is the last innovative thing that a registered kenyan engineer ever did....apart from getting kick backs to approve substandard work.
EB should worry more about ETHICS of their engineers..and less about their academic qualification.
Oh come on Pundit……are you saying Lawyers in Kenya are only degree holders and are not licensed by a licensing body to practice law? Is it also optional to register such licensing? What is the point of getting an engineering degree and not getting registered or licensing? Even if you end up in IT or whatever, that degrees and license can come in handy in case you lose your job or change careers. To me it seems to me the remaining 6500 are tarmac king somewhere instead of gainful employment. I am not even surprised how EB has their arses all up in this issue. That is the trend in Kenya where everyone is everything starting from the Top.
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They can practice..but on certain projects where say gov or city council demand one must be registered engineer they would pass..but definitely a person with engineering degree should be free to open his juakali and design something.
Yes but they can only practice if they belong to the board, right?
I am sympathetic to this point of view. Outside certain areas like medicine, drugs etc...I favor an open field.
Most professions tend to box people into pidgeonholes. It is great for running things that already work. The system trains robots and puts them to work.
But it hinders innovation. There will always be outliers that venture into areas "they have no business venturing" and in the process creating new things.
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People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.
EB is a professional body..with professional exam and requirement. They should stick to that. They should be able to register an engineer who trained in Uganda or US....as long as they can pass exam and requirement. They cannot go round the world demanding that universities abide by XYZ. That is NOT their mandate. That is mandate of CHE. Commission of HIGHER EDUCATION. EB should ensure the certification process is foolproof so any graduate from funny university in India or River road...will automatically fail.
Universities job is to offer education[wider]...not to train professionals...ready to start work on day one. That is unrealistic. That would restrict university role.
EB is quite obviously a cartel trying to ensure fewer and fewer engineers are joining their lucrative trade...where they sit at several gov ministries...approving stuff...after heavy bribe.
Heck what is the last innovative thing that a registered kenyan engineer ever did....apart from getting kick backs to approve substandard work.
EB should worry more about ETHICS of their engineers..and less about their academic qualification.
Oh come on Pundit……are you saying Lawyers in Kenya are only degree holders and are not licensed by a licensing body to practice law? Is it also optional to register such licensing? What is the point of getting an engineering degree and not getting registered or licensing? Even if you end up in IT or whatever, that degrees and license can come in handy in case you lose your job or change careers. To me it seems to me the remaining 6500 are tarmac king somewhere instead of gainful employment. I am not even surprised how EB has their arses all up in this issue. That is the trend in Kenya where everyone is everything starting from the Top.
If universities role is to provide education (and I agree with you on that), and they are providing sub standard education then it goes without saying that people are leaving school with sub standard degrees, not fit for any profession, that is why we are importing manpower to the same damn job locals should be doing. If CHE is sleeping and EB have decided to come out strong against what they perceive to be lower education standards, I don’t have any problem with that after all, I don’t expect CHE to be self critical, especially if what is at stake is the quality of education. If EB is the professional body then it is correct to assume they are involved with CHE to advise them on what the curriculum requirements for that particular study is…….so in a way, they have some say
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People get degrees for all sort of reasons. Not everyone of them want to become a registered engineer.Some of them just study to broaden their knowledge and end up in completely different careers.
In a poor country like Kenya, I doubt that there are many who go to university "just study to broaden their knowledge". The majority see it as the start of a way to make a decent living, and that is especially true in areas like engineering, law, and medicine.
The fact that people end up working in an area other than what they initially studied is not proof that they never intended to have a career in the area of study. Few people start out by saying "I really want to work in Area A but instead of studying that, I will study in Area B."
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That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized
Visit some of the Kenyan universities that purport to teach engineering courses. You will find hopelessly outdated equipment, libraries that bordered on jokes, and lecturers who are so busy with outside non-professional activities that it is unlikely they have read a book since graduating.
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That speaks volume about the overall quality of education in public universities. Right now we only know of engineering, but how many other courses are currently being offered. The whole university education system needs to be closely scrutinized
Visit some of the Kenyan universities that purport to teach engineering courses. You will find hopelessly outdated equipment, libraries that bordered on jokes, and lecturers who are so busy with outside non-professional activities that it is unlikely they have read a book since graduating.
MOON Ki,
That may be true. Yet when you look at Kenya's needs. They need engineers to work on elementary civil projects. A road here, an irrigation canal there, a borehole yonder etc. Things that the Romans did just fine millennia ago without high-tech universities. Some of whose works are still standing. They may also need factory and power plant managers etc.
While they may be equipped like a 60s college in the west, I am thinking Kenya barely uses a fraction of what its engineering graduates should be capable of. Most of the electronics engineers I personally know in Kenya wound up in the telecoms side of IT as mentioned elsewhere...short of leaving the country, they are not going to be designing microcontrollers in that locale for sometime.
A need for more chemical engineers is on the horizon once oil exploitation begins. These people are not going to be building space stations, calculating orbital insertion and docking and what have you.
Kenya just needs folks with appropriate technology. A fellow that can light up a village or two. Design a water system for a village..etc etc. Like these guys that win CNN awards but on an industrial scale.
To be fair, without knowing what the EBK is complaining about, I can't make any meaningful critique on that subject.
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Terminator:
Yes, the digging of trenches, latrines, and wells would make a huge difference. But none of that requires that people be sent to university and at enormous expense. I think it is a waste, for all, to invest in university education if it cannot be done properly and if the graduates are simply going to end up doing work that does not require that sort of education. It does happen that some people end up in that situation, but that is never their goal, and it should not be society's. It certainly is a poor situation if, after all that time and expense, the universities produce "engineers" who are fit for only jua-kali work; and that is an entirely different issue from that of the value of jua-kali products.
Another aspect has to do with where the country wishes to go. I keep hearing that the plan is to be an industrialized country (by 2030?). In the 21st century, I don't see that happening with sub-standard training of engineers and technicians.
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I had a damnable experience. As far as I can remember, a professor would just come straight to the blackboard or overhead projector and scribble out equations for an hour without uttering a single sentence to create some excitement. Its not encouraging at all.
Also you find most of these Professors and Doctors leave most of their work to a teaching assistants. Its not clear whether its because they are busy with other things or whether its lack of interest for what they are paid for.
As far as I know it, what an engineering student knows best is the theory. Diploma guys are more practical than graduates and that's a fact in Kenya.
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negro, what did you just say? :o :lolz: :lolz: :lolz:
MOON Ki,
That may be true. Yet when you look at Kenya's needs. They need engineers to work on elementary civil projects. A road here, an irrigation canal there, a borehole yonder etc. Things that the Romans did just fine millennia ago without high-tech universities. Some of whose works are still standing. They may also need factory and power plant managers etc.
While they may be equipped like a 60s college in the west, I am thinking Kenya barely uses a fraction of what its engineering graduates should be capable of. Most of the electronics engineers I personally know in Kenya wound up in the telecoms side of IT as mentioned elsewhere...short of leaving the country, they are not going to be designing microcontrollers in that locale for sometime.
A need for more chemical engineers is on the horizon once oil exploitation begins. These people are not going to be building space stations, calculating orbital insertion and docking and what have you.
Kenya just needs folks with appropriate technology. A fellow that can light up a village or two. Design a water system for a village..etc etc. Like these guys that win CNN awards but on an industrial scale.
To be fair, without knowing what the EBK is complaining about, I can't make any meaningful critique on that subject.
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I hold the point of view that higher education should concentrate more on theoretical fundamental basic stuff and leave proffesional or techie stuff for on-job training or professional training. An engineer trained in 1960s...should have about the same knowledge as an engineer trained in 1990s...and 2000s. What should differ really is their work life.Our main problem lies in the fact that we see higher education as an end to itself; instead of being a bridge for us to pursue professional training, on job training and life-long knowledge acquisition in our area of trade. There is no way university can train us to become expert engineers in every possible field. If you end up being electrical energy in geothermal field...you should invest in that field.
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Higher education remains a means to an end for many who endeavor in such pursuits. Pundit, you are stating the obvious. Higher education only provides theoretical framework for the job, hands on training then provides the work experience, however it’s that fundamental theoretical framework that is in question. Is it sub-standard or does it holds up.
We have so called engineers manning construction sites being build with sub standard material and architectural design that is why we have brand new mansions bending over or collapsing all together. Engineers trained in the 1960’s and 1970’s were as competent as it gets. Matter of fact most old university graduates are highly astute professionals because the level of education provided was superb and not as rushed as we have now.
College education was a big deal and so were the expectations. We didn’t need to import the Chinese to do the job, something is broken in the current system, that needs fixing. People are even getting university degrees in 2 years, how is that even possible. I partly blame the 8-4-4 system for this mess. If after you obtain your education, you choose to pursue other interest, then that is your choice.
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I had a damnable experience. As far as I can remember, a professor would just come straight to the blackboard or overhead projector and scribble out equations for an hour without uttering a single sentence to create some excitement. Its not encouraging at all.
Also you find most of these Professors and Doctors leave most of their work to a teaching assistants. Its not clear whether its because they are busy with other things or whether its lack of interest for what they are paid for.
As far as I know it, what an engineering student knows best is the theory. Diploma guys are more practical than graduates and that's a fact in Kenya.
BT, I don’t know if this has anything to do with the parallel programs now being offered where anyone with money, whether they passed KCSE exams or not are eligible to partake. I always thought that was a good idea. It resulted in way too many students but very few credible institutions. That then opened room for all these briefcase universities cropping up to mint money without holding up their end of providing impeccable degrees. At some point, Kenyan degrees were respected; nowadays most professionals who migrate may need refresher courses to keep up to standards offered elsewhere
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Who is saying our education standards are sub-par?. When COMMISSION OF HIGHER EDUCATION says so...i will accept them. Engineer Board to me is more a proffesional body with their own exams. Are kenyan graduate being rejected in postgrad outside this country. No.
Higher education remains a means to an end for many who endeavor in such pursuits. Pundit, you are stating the obvious. Higher education only provides theoretical framework for the job, hands on training then provides the work experience, however it’s that fundamental theoretical framework that is in question. Is it sub-standard or does it holds up.
We have so called engineers manning construction sites being build with sub standard material and architectural design that is why we have brand new mansions bending over or collapsing all together. Engineers trained in the 1960’s and 1970’s were as competent as it gets. Matter of fact most old university graduates are highly astute professionals because the level of education provided was superb and not as rushed as we have now.
College education was a big deal and so were the expectations. We didn’t need to import the Chinese to do the job, something is broken in the current system, that needs fixing. People are even getting university degrees in 2 years, how is that even possible. I partly blame the 8-4-4 system for this mess. If after you obtain your education, you choose to pursue other interest, then that is your choice.
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Are kenyan graduate being rejected in postgrad outside this country. No.
No they are not being rejected, however they are having to take up several courses before being admitted into core graduate classess because of something....you are a bit dfensive about this....I will wait to hear more.
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negro, what did you just say? :o :lolz: :lolz: :lolz:
MOON Ki,
That may be true. Yet when you look at Kenya's needs. They need engineers to work on elementary civil projects. A road here, an irrigation canal there, a borehole yonder etc. Things that the Romans did just fine millennia ago without high-tech universities. Some of whose works are still standing. They may also need factory and power plant managers etc.
While they may be equipped like a 60s college in the west, I am thinking Kenya barely uses a fraction of what its engineering graduates should be capable of. Most of the electronics engineers I personally know in Kenya wound up in the telecoms side of IT as mentioned elsewhere...short of leaving the country, they are not going to be designing microcontrollers in that locale for sometime.
A need for more chemical engineers is on the horizon once oil exploitation begins. These people are not going to be building space stations, calculating orbital insertion and docking and what have you.
Kenya just needs folks with appropriate technology. A fellow that can light up a village or two. Design a water system for a village..etc etc. Like these guys that win CNN awards but on an industrial scale.
To be fair, without knowing what the EBK is complaining about, I can't make any meaningful critique on that subject.
They need more diploma level cadres. I am inclined to believe EBK is saying this without as much clarity.
Otherwise, outside of the very latest gadgets, the engineer trained in a classroom in Nairobi has access to the same theoretical knowledge entirely in the public domain as one in a technical institute in Germany or anywhere else.
He may be disadvantaged from a practical exposure point of view.
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Who is saying our education standards are sub-par?. When COMMISSION OF HIGHER EDUCATION says so...i will accept them. Engineer Board to me is more a proffesional body with their own exams. Are kenyan graduate being rejected in postgrad outside this country. No.
I don't think that is a good "test". Consider the USA, where you live. Admissions may look at the subjects studied and the grades attained, but in order to "normalize" between graduates of Podunk University and graduates of Real University, it is the GREs that really matter.
But the basic GREs are generic and do not necessarily test what one studied at the undergrad level; so a maths graduate seeking entry into a maths program can have exactly the same scores as an engineering graduate seek entry into an engineering program. There are "advanced-subject" GREs, but they do not include any type of engineering.
I think a better "test" would be how much effort and time it takes to pass the examinations required for certification as a professional engineer in those other countries.
That said, I am puzzled by the level of involvement by EBK. In the "advanced" countries, professional bodies do get involved in providing curriculum input and in accreditation processes, but it is a purely voluntary affair for universities, which go through with them because it helps sell their programs and they produce graduates capable of passing the professional exams and do quality work.
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I don't think that is a good "test". Consider the USA, where you live. Admissions may look at the subjects studied and the grades attained, but in order to "normalize" between graduates of Podunk University and graduates of Real University, it is the GREs that really matter.
But the basic GREs are generic and do not necessarily test what one studied at the undergrad level; so a maths graduate seeking entry into a maths program can have exactly the same scores as an engineering graduate seek entry into an engineering program. There are "advanced-subject" GREs, but they do not include any type of engineering.
Not entirely true, the Grad school I went to didn’t require GRE, and it’s one of the most elite schools in the country. I am not sure why some do require it and some not. But as you can see, GRE isn’t the determinant to Graduate school, but that is not even what I had in mind when I mentioned the extra courses students would need to enter Grad school. I meant course that would otherwise be part of undergrad, that these students are to a large extent deficient in when applying, and have to undertake or at least test out to qualify for Grad school
That said, I am puzzled by the level of involvement by EBK. In the "advanced" countries, professional bodies do get involved in providing curriculum input and in accreditation processes, but it is a purely voluntary affair for universities, which go through with them because it helps sell their programs and they produce graduates capable of passing the professional exams and do quality work.
I am suprised by this MK. Professional bodies have always been involved in higher learning that is now new to the Kenyan situation. consider this:
"The U.S. Department of Education (DOE) does not accredit institutions; rather, it determines which accrediting agencies receive recognition by the Department. This means that the standards of the accrediting agencies are up to par to the standards of the DOE. The DOE limits its official recognition to accrediting agencies that endorse schools that need the recognition to participate in federal programs, such as the Federal Student Financial Aid Program
Specialized or programmatic accreditation evaluates particular schools or programs within an institution. Specialized accreditation is often associated with national professional associations such as those for engineering, medicine, and law, or with specific disciplines such as business, teacher education, and nursing."
Cardinal rule number one to every student seeking advances or even undergrad degree in any profession, “View unrecognized accrediting agencies with caution until you can evaluate their reputation. “ An unrecognized agency doesn't necessarily have low standards of quality, but it is important to know that many U.S. employers only recognize degrees from institutions accredited by a recognized agency.
Its notworthy that even though Accrediting agencies are private educational associations, the standards they set and which types of colleges and universities they accredit are entirely up to them, thus there are agencies that are specific to certain fields of study, such as engineering or medical or even law schools.
Again, Why is accreditation one of the most important things in your college search? Because when a school is accredited it not only means that its legitimacy and quality have been tested, but also that it likely has a better reputation among graduate schools and employers than unaccredited schools.
Now consider that belwo and tell me we dont have any problems.
1. The problem started when university senates approved courses without regard to professional (regulations) because the universities were autonomous entities,” said Mr Mulinge. However, universities lost their autonomy with the coming into force of the Universities Act (2012), which gave the Commission for University Education and professional groups such as the EBK powers to approve and accredit programmes.
2. Previously, the senates approved all degree courses the institutions offered after their faculties developed programmes. The Engineers Act (2011) mandates the board to approve and accredit engineering programmes in public and private universities and other tertiary educational institutions.
3. This is how most public universities started engineering courses even without enough lecturers or qualified ones.
4. The matter has been worsened by the rapid expansion of universities, with their constituent colleges fast becoming full universities even without the necessary staff and equipment. This is what has forced EBK to weigh in in a bid to ensure professionalism
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[Not entirely true, the Grad school I went to didn’t require GRE, and it’s one of the most elite schools in the country. I am not sure why some do require it and some not. But as you can see, GRE isn’t the determinant to Graduate school, but that is not even what I had in mind when I mentioned the extra courses students would need to enter Grad school.
I was restricting myself to engineering. There could be top-notch/elite US engineering schools that do not require the GRE for admission to grad school, but, off the top of my head, I can't imagine any. Can you provide a list?
(Also, what is your field and where did you get your first degree?)
I am suprised by this MK. Professional bodies have always been involved in higher learning that is now new to the Kenyan situation. consider this:
"The U.S. Department of Education (DOE) does not accredit institutions; rather, it determines which accrediting agencies receive recognition by the Department. This means that the standards of the accrediting agencies are up to par to the standards of the DOE. The DOE limits its official recognition to accrediting agencies that endorse schools that need the recognition to participate in federal programs, such as the Federal Student Financial Aid Program
Once again, my focus is on the accreditation of engineering programs. Also, nowhere did I suggest that professional bodies in the USA (or anywhere else) do not get involved in what is studied in universities. Rather, my comment was about the manner in which they get involved and to what extent.
Please note that I never suggested that DOE accredits anybody; rather, I referred to "professional organizations". Let us consider electrical engineering, for example. In the USA, the relevant bodies are ABET and IEEE. You can read about those here:
http://www.abet.org/accreditation/
http://www.ieee.org/education_careers/education/accreditation/index.html
If you read through all that, the point I was trying to make is quite clear: the accreditation of particular program is a process that universities get into voluntarily; it is not the type of thing that EBK is trying to impose. The IEEE webpage puts that right upfront:
"Accreditation is the voluntary, peer review process utilized by higher education institutions and industry practitioners to evaluate academic degree programs."
and ABET devotes pages into trying to sell what they do, i.e. why accreditation matters. ABET is especially important, in the USA and elsewhere, and this example page indicates why:
http://www.engr.ncsu.edu/academics/undergrad/profengr/
(I picked it because it is a good example of a university program preparing its students to pass the professional exams.)
The point, however, is this: ABET can (and it sometimes does) refuse to accredit degree programs; and it can (and frequently does) offer advice on curriculum. What it cannot do, and never does, is insist that certain programs be suspended or shut-down, which, as I understand it, is what EBK has somehow managed to do.
Now, don't get me wrong. I appreciate and agree with your concerns that started this thread. As far as I can tell, the quality of university education in Kenya has largely gone to the dogs---even at UoN. I am all for EBK getting involved in the education of engineers. What I have an "issue" with is the manner of their involvement (as it appears to be the case). The autonomy of universities is something that needs to be handled "delicately", and places like Kenya provide numerous examples for the "why".
So, when you write
This is how most public universities started engineering courses even without enough lecturers or qualified ones. The matter has been worsened by the rapid expansion of universities, with their constituent colleges fast becoming full universities even without the necessary staff and equipment. This is what has forced EBK to weigh in in a bid to ensure professionalism
I fully agree, and some my earlier statements will confirm that. I also agree that EBK should---and, indeed, must---weigh in. What I have doubts about is the manner of the "weighing in". Advice on what is to be studied? TICK! Refusal to register sub-standard "engineers"? TICK! But how it manages to get programs suspended/shut-down is another matter. Are there similar examples ("historical" otherwise in the USA?)
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Mya88, upon reflection:
Perhaps this will clarify my view of EBK's role. It should say
* We have accredited this or that program (if that is within their remit) but not this or other one.
* We will accredit this or that program (same assumptions as above) if it meets this or the other standard.
* Students who don't graduate from accredited programs will have problems with our standards.
and leave it at that. "Natural selection" will then do the rest.
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The price is high for students who join unaccredited programmes in universities, not just in Kenya but also in other countries. This means such graduates cannot develop successful careers in engineering since they cannot practice as professional cadres.
I think ERB is doing a good job. Its ideal to have a watchdog because our universities are enhancing mediocrity by developing sub-standard degrees which amount to cheating the public that they were offering engineering degrees, while offering technician based courses.
Like for instance some core courses like digital electronics, Engineering Maths, circuit theory etc. were taught by a B. ED Lectures. That doesn't add up at all.
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@MOON KI
I thought you were questioning their involvement all together....but I see now……. it’s the manner in which they are getting involved that you have a problem with. I think the confusion can be explained by the poor manner in the wording of the Engineering Act (2011) mentioned above that gives them jurisdiction to disapprove courses. And you are right, to deny accreditation or Disapprove isn’t synonymous with suspend university studies all together. The universities should continue to have autonomy of what they offer, and it’s up to students to inquire if they want to attend institutions that offer non accredited courses. As far as the GRE requirement, Let’s stick with engineering since that is the area you claim expertise on........without getting into personal details, here is a non informal list of some universities that do not require GRE.
http://ainsleydiduca.com/grad-schools-dont-require-gre/#Eng (http://ainsleydiduca.com/grad-schools-dont-require-gre/#Eng)
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The price is high for students who join unaccredited programmes in universities, not just in Kenya but also in other countries. This means such graduates cannot develop successful careers in engineering since they cannot practice as professional cadres.
I think ERB is doing a good job. Its ideal to have a watchdog because our universities are enhancing mediocrity by developing sub-standard degrees which amount to cheating the public that they were offering engineering degrees, while offering technician based courses.
Like for instance some core courses like digital electronics, Engineering Maths, circuit theory etc. were taught by a B. ED Lectures. That doesn't add up at all.
Well said BT. I am very critical of this because these universities charge ridiculous amounts for that education. Some of us have had faith in them for far too long, supporting many kin folks through education hoping it’s going to be that bridge that allows them to make something out of themselves……. so the news coming from yonder is quiet disturbing. Why should the public continue to pay so much for low grade education? Those universities have proven that they cannot self regulate so I don’t blame anyone who has the audacity of taking them to tasks. They have become another form of money minting business without accountability.
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@MOON KI
I thought you were questioning their involvement all together....but I see now……. it’s the manner in which they are getting involved that you have a problem with. I think the confusion can be explained by the poor manner in the wording of the Engineering Act (2011) mentioned above that gives them jurisdiction to disapprove courses. And you are right, to deny accreditation or Disapprove isn’t synonymous with suspend university studies all together. The universities should continue to have autonomy of what they offer, and it’s up to students to inquire if they want to attend institutions that offer non accredited courses. As far as the GRE requirement, Let’s stick with engineering since that is the area you claim expertise on........without getting into personal details, here is a non informal list of some universities that do not require GRE.
http://ainsleydiduca.com/grad-schools-dont-require-gre/#Eng (http://ainsleydiduca.com/grad-schools-dont-require-gre/#Eng)
Mya88: Nowhere did I claim expertise in engineering. Thanks for the list; as I said, the related statement was made "off the top of my head".
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Are these the type of engineers they are talking about?
Are kenyan buildings safe?
http://www.nation.co.ke/counties/storey-building-collapses-at-night/-/1107872/2525664/-/p7rmmoz/-/index.html
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Are these the type of engineers they are talking about?
Are kenyan buildings safe?
http://www.nation.co.ke/counties/storey-building-collapses-at-night/-/1107872/2525664/-/p7rmmoz/-/index.html
Five vehicles were extensively damaged when a four-storey building under construction collapsed in Skuta, Nyeri Town.
The building crumbled around 3.30am Monday, causing a scare among residents. No one was injured.
County Executive in charge of Lands and Infrastructure Development John Maina said the building was in the final stages of construction.
Mr Maina said the county government approved the construction and officials have been monitoring it at every stage.
He ordered an immediate investigation into the incident to establish why the unfinished house went down
How does a four story building that isn’t even complete, meaning people and their belongings aren’t in to add weight to it, just collapse? This is a disturbing trend in the growing construction business where people are in for a quick kill, in disregard of human life. I saw TrueRV talking about this in that other place. I think we should slowly try to move away from constructing homes with concrete, especially where people are now cutting corners, because the consequences of such are deadly.
That is what finished Haitians after that last earth quake. Had the structures been of less sturdier material, maybe more lives could have been saved and the aftermath wouldn’t have taken forever to clean up. I am not sure what most developed countries, ie south Africans or the west, are using, but concrete for everything surely isn’t the way to go.
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Mya
Agreed. Imagine we have to frequent this buildings in one way or another!!!
It sends chills down my spine...
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given the transition rates from nursery to primary school to secondary school and to colleges we should worry more about access ...more access
what qualifications do you need to take a bribe from cow boy contractors??