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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 09:22:56 PM

Title: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 09:22:56 PM
Concentrate on build -to -own
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Kadudu on June 05, 2022, 11:03:56 PM
The man should learn to think before talking.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 11:07:51 PM
There is nothing wrong with it;
It just susceptible to propaganda;
Otherwise Nairobi or Kenya is possibly one few places on earth where 95 percent of people rent.
You dont find that even in other East Africa countries.
When I live in Kampala - even a bar maid can afford to buy plot and build.

Rent of 8K - annually is 100K - and in 15yrs - that is about 2M - a house renting for 8k is price maybe 1m per unit.
Therefore there is solid maths for mortagage industry to take off.

We cannot continue being a country of now 30,000 mortgages - when they are at least 12 million households.

The issue is where will money come from...

Simple...housing levy of 10 percent of income for everyone....and increase in NSSF pension scheme....we are still paying 500 or 100shs that we paid in 1990s...
Bring Chinese.

All these were already captured in Big 4 housing thing.

Implementation just failed.

The man should learn to think before talking.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 11:13:49 PM
Urban household who rent - in Africa - Kenya I think is off charts - 90 percent.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 11:25:56 PM
Kenya is 78 percent for renting..22 percent for owning..with only 30,000 mortgages..it unacceptable and create deep poverty
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Pragmatic on June 06, 2022, 01:33:37 AM
I have had this draft seating in my mailbox for so looong since you started tapping about Big 4 and specifically about housing. There was nothing like Big4; those were just slogans hurriedly put together by some marketer at statehouse just before the elections of 2017. Complete with impressive graphics and photos obviously pulled from the internet to give an impression of some very modernistic development we were about to see or develop with Jubilee’s last term. Well, it impressed a lot of you!!

There was really no realistic plan to realise that and that’s why they all came unstuck.... and not BBI like you like spinning.... an easy scapegoat which would not have stopped other government programs from progressing in earnest if they were realistic and well thought. In fact, the handshake helped quite a bit in some way in assisting with a stable environment to conduct business.... that’s one of the core requirements around “risk assessment” on any investment. Meantime, ODM’s cooperation with Jubilee helped in accelerating or passing legislation and other laws towards Jubilees’s intended programs... one of which was the Housing program; which is why we have the KHMC (Kenya Housing Mortgage Company) and the Housing re-mortgage finance company backed by IFC and World Bank and other development partners.

Now, coming to Housing specifically... I know this because I am a player in that sector and we have come unstuck with inability to fund a 2400 Housing unit development scheme because of the systemic challenges in the Kenya scenario. I am talking from a practical example and first hand knowledge of what factors are at play, so stop with your too much know kiherehere. This is some bit of public educating I am sharing here.

Not even the Chinese can do this... locals can do it as much as the Chinese provided the systemic issues are addressed. Mind you, we don’t want a scenario in Kenya of the American 2008 sub-prime S&L or the recent China Evengrade mortgage meltdown. As you rightly point Kenya has only a few mortgages... actually about 50,000, not 30,000. Whereas people should be owning and living in their own units or at least paying to own at some point. As a factor, one of the biggest impediment in Kenya is the cost of land as one factor, especially in the urban areas. You could try price a unit at 1m but the price of land even in the outskirts of the main city can’t let you!!!

Now, in this scenario, even if we were to produce thousands of houses, who will guarantee the developers of uptake?? Without guaranteed uptake, no developer would risk or put down a dime!! Not the Chinese, neither any local... that’s what the KMRC (Kenya Mortgage Refinance Company) was to cure or Guarantee. The trick is not really in increasing the NSSF contributions to thousands or imposing a Housing levy on salaries... why would I be levied if I have no intention to be on the scheme. This was resisted because it was being made mandatory and yet it should be a voluntary scheme. The trick is in finding a way to guarantee that housing units which came to the market will be taken up... and the government can’t give a blanket guarantee, this will simply increase the government’s debt burden and also squeeze other players out of a market which it ain’t qualified to play in. The Chinese went even as far as asking for sovereign guarantees, that’s tantamount to GOK guaranteeing to be the purchaser if the units!! Now, if it is giving Chinese these guarantees, why not give same to local developers as well??? In the end no such scheme was possible... we had a scheme of this nature in Angola and now we have ghost cities outside Luanda with no tenants... the units have fallen into disrepair and the Chinese have long been paid with Oil and Diamonds and long gone.

For over 3years we struggled to mobilise $170m debt for a $260m gross value development; we got serious offers but the ultimate killer of the transactions was always the uptake guarantee. We had many potential funders who were willing to escrow the receivables and be paid over 3years post-completion of development... but without guarantees that the units would be all be sold by 36th month, everything fell through.

What I have summarised here is really pretty much on the surface scenario of things at play. Other embedded systemic issues are at play... for example insurance companies and the provident funds are seating on mountains of cash, why can’t they put these funds in housing (and other infrastructure like roads, railways, airports, ports etc). They can get into toll roads like the Nairobi Expressway or such. And other big provident funds like Caliper or the Canadians were all too willing to come on board provided local funds lead the way. We need long term funds... bank loans can’t work in mortgage financing, you need minimum 10yr money.

Finally, if I may; forget your fixation with the Chinese. What we found with the 3years legwork and roadshows across the globe, many entities can execute these types of projects; all they need is the right environment, incentives and setting... the Chinese are a favourite only because they the best in slicing public officials their huge cuts. We found the Turkish, Americans, even some very interesting European entities very ready and willing to be involved. Singapore has achieved almost “100%” home ownership with a very “simple” model... that’s the model we should adopt. Read it up... I can’t start regurgitating here.

Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 02:07:46 AM
You start from wrong footing - Big 4 was not revealed until after 2017 election.
Those of us who follows these things know better than you do.
Big 4 was 1st announced in Jamhuri of 2017 - long after election.
It was a solid plan that addressed all your concerns.
The housing sector was easiest to pull.
It looked both at supply and demand side issues....and pretty much proposed straightforward solution.
There was 24 billion dollars plus worth of commitment that came through.
But Uhuru started his misguided war with Ruto - then found himself doing BBI - and only delivered 2,000 units.

Output:  BIG 4 failed. BBI failed. War against ruto failed.

The mlevi screwball just cannot get anything right - and combined with legendary failure Raila - you can expect the usual nonsense of we are cross roads tiala tibim nonsense.

Big 4 housing document is out there - Ruto will not add a comma to it - in his upcoming manifesto.
It addresses all those concerns - again both supply and demand side of housing - and is solid plan.
Ruto was central in formulation of Big 4 - which was suppose to be next phase after infrastructure was done.
Mlevi took over - and of course it all collapsed.
What did get off ground - few units - that Kenya mortgage refinancing - and that was pretty it.
Before long - housing was dumped - and it became Kazi Mtaani.

There are many long term funds - both internally and externally looking for investment in real estate like in Kenya.
All gov need to do is to de-risk the sector - and it can easily do that - if it's serious.
2ndly housing main intention apart from providing houses - is to generate at least two million mjengo jobs.

It can be done. It will be done. Ruto did it with low seal volume roads. When they got problems - they solved those problems.

Raila is obviously too senile to do anything serious and has detoriated so much he is back to "disease, poverty and ingorance".

Back to housing - there is no new money required - people are paying rent in Nairobi that can easily become mortgage - people just need to raise 10-20 percent deposit - then continue to pay their normal rent. That housing levy was suppose to prepare people to raise 10-20 percent deposit - then banks will take care of the rest - as long as mortgage = rent - any extra would be refinanced by gov.

If I am not wrong anybody paying at least 8-10K rent per month can easily convert that rent to mortgage if gov does few things - that are all well enumerated in big 4 housing plan. Cheapest unit can be delivered at 1m...that nice one bedroom or studio...that person can pay 8K and in 15yrs own it...they just need 200K deposit.

And Chinese are by far the best - for they bring scale - and execute projects on time and on budget.

I have had this draft seating in my mailbox for so looong since you started tapping about Big 4 and specifically about housing. There was nothing like Big4; those were just slogans hurriedly put together by some marketer at statehouse just before the elections of 2017. Complete with impressive graphics and photos obviously pulled from the internet to give an impression of some very modernistic development we were about to see or develop with Jubilee’s last term. Well, it impressed a lot of you!!

There was really no realistic plan to realise that and that’s why they all came unstuck.... and not BBI like you like spinning.... an easy scapegoat which would not have stopped other government programs from progressing in earnest if they were realistic and well thought. In fact, the handshake helped quite a bit in some way in assisting with a stable environment to conduct business.... that’s one of the core requirements around “risk assessment” on any investment. Meantime, ODM’s cooperation with Jubilee helped in accelerating or passing legislation and other laws towards Jubilees’s intended programs... one of which was the Housing program; which is why we have the KHMC (Kenya Housing Mortgage Company) and the Housing re-mortgage finance company backed by IFC and World Bank and other development partners.

Now, coming to Housing specifically... I know this because I am a player in that sector and we have come unstuck with inability to fund a 2400 Housing unit development scheme because of the systemic challenges in the Kenya scenario. I am talking from a practical example and first hand knowledge of what factors are at play, so stop with your too much know kiherehere. This is some bit of public educating I am sharing here.

Not even the Chinese can do this... locals can do it as much as the Chinese provided the systemic issues are addressed. Mind you, we don’t want a scenario in Kenya of the American 2008 sub-prime S&L or the recent China Evengrade mortgage meltdown. As you rightly point Kenya has only a few mortgages... actually about 50,000, not 30,000. Whereas people should be owning and living in their own units or at least paying to own at some point. As a factor, one of the biggest impediment in Kenya is the cost of land as one factor, especially in the urban areas. You could try price a unit at 1m but the price of land even in the outskirts of the main city can’t let you!!!

Now, in this scenario, even if we were to produce thousands of houses, who will guarantee the developers of uptake?? Without guaranteed uptake, no developer would risk or put down a dime!! Not the Chinese, neither any local... that’s what the KMRC (Kenya Mortgage Refinance Company) was to cure or Guarantee. The trick is not really in increasing the NSSF contributions to thousands or imposing a Housing levy on salaries... why would I be levied if I have no intention to be on the scheme. This was resisted because it was being made mandatory and yet it should be a voluntary scheme. The trick is in finding a way to guarantee that housing units which came to the market will be taken up... and the government can’t give a blanket guarantee, this will simply increase the government’s debt burden and also squeeze other players out of a market which it ain’t qualified to play in. The Chinese went even as far as asking for sovereign guarantees, that’s tantamount to GOK guaranteeing to be the purchaser if the units!! Now, if it is giving Chinese these guarantees, why not give same to local developers as well??? In the end no such scheme was possible... we had a scheme of this nature in Angola and now we have ghost cities outside Luanda with no tenants... the units have fallen into disrepair and the Chinese have long been paid with Oil and Diamonds and long gone.

For over 3years we struggled to mobilise $170m debt for a $260m gross value development; we got serious offers but the ultimate killer of the transactions was always the uptake guarantee. We had many potential funders who were willing to escrow the receivables and be paid over 3years post-completion of development... but without guarantees that the units would be all be sold by 36th month, everything fell through.

What I have summarised here is really pretty much on the surface scenario of things at play. Other embedded systemic issues are at play... for example insurance companies and the provident funds are seating on mountains of cash, why can’t they put these funds in housing (and other infrastructure like roads, railways, airports, ports etc). They can get into toll roads like the Nairobi Expressway or such. And other big provident funds like Caliper or the Canadians were all too willing to come on board provided local funds lead the way. We need long term funds... bank loans can’t work in mortgage financing, you need minimum 10yr money.

Finally, if I may; forget your fixation with the Chinese. What we found with the 3years legwork and roadshows across the globe, many entities can execute these types of projects; all they need is the right environment, incentives and setting... the Chinese are a favourite only because they the best in slicing public officials their huge cuts. We found the Turkish, Americans, even some very interesting European entities very ready and willing to be involved. Singapore has achieved almost “100%” home ownership with a very “simple” model... that’s the model we should adopt. Read it up... I can’t start regurgitating here.


Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Pragmatic on June 06, 2022, 02:31:42 AM
AND I don’t follow... I was and have been very actively involved.

Big 4 was all mooted before the new term and unveiled in the new term. It was just razzmatazz and big words which were never going to be fulfilled. Actually rent-seeking schemes.  I know!!

No need for a back and forth on that. I am right in the mix, so I am not telling this from 3rd party sources....

I asked you to refrain from kiherehere mingi.... I was right in the mix. And I am still very much in the mix of some of those initiatives, including some huge litigation battles on some commitments that weren’t fulfilled. I won’t go into revealing any of that for confidentiality reasons..... I know very well why the housing scheme failed. And how they can come to fruition, there is no rocket science there and Ruto doesn’t have any stellar skill to unlock that. It is very simple and many who are involved know how this can happen.

There was no $25b dollar commitments.... those were just newspaper stories by excited writers (best for fiction section of newspapers) who didn’t understand the core message. No such funds were available for investment.... how come not even a penny was invested???? It has nothing to do with BBI... KMRC and KHMC are both already incorporated; why haven’t the developments taken off??

You start from wrong footing - Big 4 was not revealed until after 2017 election.
Those of us who follows these things know better than you do.
Big 4 was 1st announced in Jamhuri of 2017 - long after election.
It was a solid plan that addressed all your concerns.
The housing sector was easiest to pull.
It looked both at supply and demand side issues....and pretty much proposed straightforward solution.
There was 24 billion dollars plus worth of commitment that came through.
But Uhuru started his misguided war with Ruto - then found himself doing BBI - and only delivered 2,000 units.

Output:  BIG 4 failed. BBI failed. War against ruto failed.

The mlevi screwball just cannot get anything right - and combined with legendary failure Raila - you can expect the usual nonsense of we are cross roads tiala tibim nonsense.

Big 4 housing document is out there - Ruto will not add a comma to it - in his upcoming manifesto.
It addresses all those concerns - again both supply and demand side of housing - and is solid plan.
Ruto was central in formulation of Big 4 - which was suppose to be next phase after infrastructure was done.
Mlevi took over - and of course it all collapsed.
What did get off ground - few units - that Kenya mortgage refinancing - and that was pretty it.
Before long - housing was dumped - and it became Kazi Mtaani.

There are many long term funds - both internally and externally looking for investment in real estate like in Kenya.
All gov need to do is to de-risk the sector - and it can easily do that - if it's serious.
2ndly housing main intention apart from providing houses - is to generate at least two million mjengo jobs.

It can be done. It will be done. Ruto did it with low seal volume roads. When they got problems - they solved those problems.

Raila is obviously too senile to do anything serious and has detoriated so much he is back to "disease, poverty and ingorance".

Back to housing - there is no new money require - people are paying rent in Nairobi that can easily become mortgage - people just need to raise 10-20 percent deposit - then continue to pay their normal rent. That housing levy was suppose to prepare people to raise 10-20 percent deposit - then banks will take care of the rest - as long as mortgage = rent.

I have had this draft seating in my mailbox for so looong since you started tapping about Big 4 and specifically about housing. There was nothing like Big4; those were just slogans hurriedly put together by some marketer at statehouse just before the elections of 2017. Complete with impressive graphics and photos obviously pulled from the internet to give an impression of some very modernistic development we were about to see or develop with Jubilee’s last term. Well, it impressed a lot of you!!

There was really no realistic plan to realise that and that’s why they all came unstuck.... and not BBI like you like spinning.... an easy scapegoat which would not have stopped other government programs from progressing in earnest if they were realistic and well thought. In fact, the handshake helped quite a bit in some way in assisting with a stable environment to conduct business.... that’s one of the core requirements around “risk assessment” on any investment. Meantime, ODM’s cooperation with Jubilee helped in accelerating or passing legislation and other laws towards Jubilees’s intended programs... one of which was the Housing program; which is why we have the KHMC (Kenya Housing Mortgage Company) and the Housing re-mortgage finance company backed by IFC and World Bank and other development partners.

Now, coming to Housing specifically... I know this because I am a player in that sector and we have come unstuck with inability to fund a 2400 Housing unit development scheme because of the systemic challenges in the Kenya scenario. I am talking from a practical example and first hand knowledge of what factors are at play, so stop with your too much know kiherehere. This is some bit of public educating I am sharing here.

Not even the Chinese can do this... locals can do it as much as the Chinese provided the systemic issues are addressed. Mind you, we don’t want a scenario in Kenya of the American 2008 sub-prime S&L or the recent China Evengrade mortgage meltdown. As you rightly point Kenya has only a few mortgages... actually about 50,000, not 30,000. Whereas people should be owning and living in their own units or at least paying to own at some point. As a factor, one of the biggest impediment in Kenya is the cost of land as one factor, especially in the urban areas. You could try price a unit at 1m but the price of land even in the outskirts of the main city can’t let you!!!

Now, in this scenario, even if we were to produce thousands of houses, who will guarantee the developers of uptake?? Without guaranteed uptake, no developer would risk or put down a dime!! Not the Chinese, neither any local... that’s what the KMRC (Kenya Mortgage Refinance Company) was to cure or Guarantee. The trick is not really in increasing the NSSF contributions to thousands or imposing a Housing levy on salaries... why would I be levied if I have no intention to be on the scheme. This was resisted because it was being made mandatory and yet it should be a voluntary scheme. The trick is in finding a way to guarantee that housing units which came to the market will be taken up... and the government can’t give a blanket guarantee, this will simply increase the government’s debt burden and also squeeze other players out of a market which it ain’t qualified to play in. The Chinese went even as far as asking for sovereign guarantees, that’s tantamount to GOK guaranteeing to be the purchaser if the units!! Now, if it is giving Chinese these guarantees, why not give same to local developers as well??? In the end no such scheme was possible... we had a scheme of this nature in Angola and now we have ghost cities outside Luanda with no tenants... the units have fallen into disrepair and the Chinese have long been paid with Oil and Diamonds and long gone.

For over 3years we struggled to mobilise $170m debt for a $260m gross value development; we got serious offers but the ultimate killer of the transactions was always the uptake guarantee. We had many potential funders who were willing to escrow the receivables and be paid over 3years post-completion of development... but without guarantees that the units would be all be sold by 36th month, everything fell through.

What I have summarised here is really pretty much on the surface scenario of things at play. Other embedded systemic issues are at play... for example insurance companies and the provident funds are seating on mountains of cash, why can’t they put these funds in housing (and other infrastructure like roads, railways, airports, ports etc). They can get into toll roads like the Nairobi Expressway or such. And other big provident funds like Caliper or the Canadians were all too willing to come on board provided local funds lead the way. We need long term funds... bank loans can’t work in mortgage financing, you need minimum 10yr money.

Finally, if I may; forget your fixation with the Chinese. What we found with the 3years legwork and roadshows across the globe, many entities can execute these types of projects; all they need is the right environment, incentives and setting... the Chinese are a favourite only because they the best in slicing public officials their huge cuts. We found the Turkish, Americans, even some very interesting European entities very ready and willing to be involved. Singapore has achieved almost “100%” home ownership with a very “simple” model... that’s the model we should adopt. Read it up... I can’t start regurgitating here.


Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 06:55:16 AM
Without the 1b dollars housing levy that 25b cannot be unlocked.Its that simple.The court told gov to fix few issues but uhuru slept and focused on BBI nonsense
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Githunguri on June 06, 2022, 07:59:54 AM
He is trying to mobilize luhya luhya kisii votes who are about 700k in Nairobi...remember majority landlords in areas like kawangware are Kikuyu.This can turn into serious class warfare and mutate to ethnic conflict.Its a very bad statements and he needs to measure his words in such volatile areas like kawangware slums.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 08:14:08 AM
It only dangerous because Raila has used such propaganda before  - so Ruto should avoid it. Raila started landlord tiff with Kibra Nubians in early 90s. So this hot potato that Ruto should be aware. I know he wants fix housing situation but anything touching landlords and their property - even willing seller buyer - leave it alone. Concretrate on two million housing deficit.
He is trying to mobilize luhya luhya kisii votes who are about 700k in Nairobi...remember majority landlords in areas like kawangware are Kikuyu.This can turn into serious class warfare and mutate to ethnic conflict.Its a very bad statements and he needs to measure his words in such volatile areas like kawangware slums.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Githunguri on June 06, 2022, 08:23:13 AM
It only dangerous because Raila has used such propaganda before  - so Ruto should avoid it. Raila started landlord tiff with Kibra Nubians in early 90s. So this hot potato that Ruto should be aware. I know he wants fix housing situation but anything touching landlords and their property - even willing seller buyer - leave it alone. Concretrate on two million housing deficit.
He is trying to mobilize luhya luhya kisii votes who are about 700k in Nairobi...remember majority landlords in areas like kawangware are Kikuyu.This can turn into serious class warfare and mutate to ethnic conflict.Its a very bad statements and he needs to measure his words in such volatile areas like kawangware slums.

Royal media Nation media standard and media max will make this the agenda this week.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 08:27:47 AM
The good thing like madodoa or pev thing - four fingers will point at Raila - everytime you point a finger to Ruto. Whatever imagined crime they want to accuse Ruto - Raila is almost guilty of 10 ten times worse.

This is why this election is walk over for Ruto.

Royal media Nation media standard and media max will make this the agenda this week.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: gout on June 06, 2022, 11:27:14 AM
Centum puts it at 90%.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1387623338371464

There is so much idle land served by infrastructure while people are moving to crazy places like Kamulu, Mavoko, Ruiru, Juja. Too much unproductivity due to jams, stress.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: gout on June 06, 2022, 11:29:11 AM
This fits within the hasora narrative. The kikuyu slumlords are already with babaman. The hasoras are pressed by rents since covid.

Who knows it could be a missile aimed at Northlands development.

The good thing like madodoa or pev thing - four fingers will point at Raila - everytime you point a finger to Ruto. Whatever imagined crime they want to accuse Ruto - Raila is almost guilty of 10 ten times worse.

This is why this election is walk over for Ruto.

Royal media Nation media standard and media max will make this the agenda this week.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 02:40:14 PM
Northland will be complusorly acquired for cheap n given to Chinese to build hasola resident..those 11,000 acres are ideal
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 06:15:58 PM
They will parade all sorts of Hail Mary proposals from now till elections in desperate attempt to woo voters 😂

Hustler prokopanda - failed

County charter - stillborn

Now its rent to own - own goal

They won't get traction with  pro poor policies because raia realizes BABA cares for the downtrodden more than mwizi.

They should appeal to different segment.

Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on June 06, 2022, 06:25:32 PM
They will parade all sorts of Hail Mary proposals from now till elections in desperate attempt to woo voters 😂

Hustler prokopanda - failed

County charter - stillborn

Now its rent to own - own goal

They won't get traction with  pro poor policies because raia realizes BABA cares for the downtrodden more than mwizi.

They should appeal to different segment.
Raila has been campaigning nationally since 1991; DP started in 2012 and they are 55/45 in favor of DP. I don't see Raila beating Ruto if he couldn't beat senile Moi, slow Kibaki, and laz Uhuru. Ruto is energetic, moneyed, sobber, PhD holder, team Organizer, mobilizer, and mountain & RV kingpin, and above all, Christian base hero. It will be very extremely hard to beat him. Uhuru so far has spend over over 100 Billion from 2018 to the detriment of Kenya economy to beat Ruto [BBI et al; Kizimia et all] but the man is still charging forward like a hurricane. 
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: gout on June 06, 2022, 06:27:24 PM
Babaman has included pesa mfukoni in his manifesto.Problem with herding cows - no intellectual thought. No campaign message.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 06:32:35 PM
They are actually waiting for Ruto manifesto to plagarize.
He was to launch few weeks ago but they have nothing.
Just wait and see.
They wont launch anything until Ruto moves.
Then they will do a quick dirty job of copy-pasting.

Ruto is in catch 22 - because Raila is brain dead - just waiting to copy-paste - and make the work of 200 experts look like a joke.

Babaman has included pesa mfukoni in his manifesto.Problem with herding cows - no intellectual thought. No campaign message.
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on June 06, 2022, 06:50:33 PM
Senile bondoman still don't know what is happening in Kakamega, Vihiga, Bungoma, coast, and Trans Nzoia day 132 of neighborhood coming!
Title: Re: Ruto should avoid this rent-to-own - slipperly propaganda
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 11:48:37 PM
Raila has been campaigning nationally since 1991; DP started in 2012 and they are 55/45 in favor of DP. I don't see Raila beating Ruto if he couldn't beat senile Moi, slow Kibaki, and laz Uhuru. Ruto is energetic, moneyed, sobber, PhD holder, team Organizer, mobilizer, and mountain & RV kingpin, and above all, Christian base hero. It will be very extremely hard to beat him. Uhuru so far has spend over over 100 Billion from 2018 to the detriment of Kenya economy to beat Ruto [BBI et al; Kizimia et all] but the man is still charging forward like a hurricane.

 :D My fren, you entitled to your opinions but not your facts. Right now the Azimio wave is at 60% nationally.