Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on November 02, 2014, 10:52:53 PM
-
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktn/live
-
This is more disgusting that Termie's Vietnamese maggot eating clip
-
vooke,
This is false "power of God movement". Its counterfeit and of demonic origin.
Clue- do you feel no better, or worse afterward, if you are slain in the spirit? Think about it. If the real God touches you, He does not do it without it affecting you in a constructive way.
This is more disgusting that Termie's Vietnamese maggot eating clip
-
The whole religion is a big fraud.
-
The whole religion is a big fraud.
Why the hell do you feel the need to make others conform to your lack of belief? What is the point.
You have the belief that you lack a belief? Your point should be invalid at default.
You have no place in an argument for God if you say "I don't know"
-
Where the hell did i attempt to make you or others conform? We are talking about fraud. Small time fraud in Mpesa pand bengu type and big time fraud by someone promising millions heaven where they will sing and dance or sex 72 virgins. That is my OPINION. You type are all over the mass media spreading the gospel....and am here to express my opinion that any of our stone age religion essentially is a BIG FRAUD.
This is akin to gay thing...eti why do they want to make us conform by coming out open? When you're all over speakers cranked up spreading the gospel without any solicitation, knocking on doors, mass media, name any little public space.
Why the hell do you feel the need to make others conform to your lack of belief? What is the point.
You have the belief that you lack a belief? Your point should be invalid at default.
You have no place in an argument for God if you say "I don't know"
-
If a gay confess in public, Its no different from those who practise bestiality, or adulterers or rapists, or drunkards coming out and confessing in public.
Under your atheism religion, whose opinion decides right and wrong?
-
Should prostitutes come out too?
-
Who has evidence that heaven or god exist. If Kanyari is guilty of fraud; the churches are guilter of more fraud for selling unproven utopia to millions...and scaring esp children with fire and brimstone.
When it come to gays; if it's not criminal like in US; they are free to come out and heck to even influence more people to come out, explore their sexuality and find happiness;
As for criminals [depending on penal code] if they are stupid enough to incriminate themselves by coming out; the better for cops; like those prophet (conman) owour thugs who came out to declare their criminal past and were quickly arraigned in court.
If a gay confess in public, Its no different from those who practise bestiality, or adulterers or rapists, or drunkards coming out and confessing in public.
Under your atheism religion, whose opinion decides right and wrong?
-
Pundit
Have you checked how much land the Church actually owns? The bigger churches got their land freely from the colonial government. The Catholic Church expanded its holdings - the largest single expansion took place during the Kakamega Gold Rush when it lay claim to a huge area it thought had gold deposits.
The late comers got free land from Kenyatta and Moi - a ploy used to grab public land.
Hence when one starts to talk about land reform seriously, you hear strange voices from the clergy side.
-
One question that bothers me: Why the focus on one fake preacher? The documentary refers to prayer predators but ends up focusing on one prayer predator. I hope Jicho Pevu is not being used as a tool in a war between predators
-
Should prostitutes come out too?
I am personally against criminalization of prostitution. All it does is give the police excessive power to harass those women at will. It's also difficult to control if it is illegal, so you have minors being lured in. I don't see why promiscuity is perfectly legal but if a woman gets some money for her promiscuity, it is now illegal. Double standards.
-
Should prostitutes come out too?
I am personally against criminalization of prostitution. All it does is give the police excessive power to harass those women at will. It's also difficult to control if it is illegal, so you have minors being lured in. I don't see why promiscuity is perfectly legal but if a woman gets some money for her promiscuity, it is now illegal. Double standards.
Oh please..anyway..safe journey
-
There are male prostitutes as well, as you probably already know.
The question by DB was if gays are coming out to great acclamation and demands that they be admitted in to the churches (where they are already members anyway) with special marks that refer to how they engage in sex,should the same "status" be granted prostitutes? I can see benches lined in the Holy Family Basilica with labels "Heterosexuals only"; Lesbians with children only"; Gay men without Children"; Lesbians with sperm donor kids"; "Female Prostitutes"; "Male Prostitutes"; Gay Prostitutes (Male) Only"; etc
Should prostitutes come out too?
I am personally against criminalization of prostitution. All it does is give the police excessive power to harass those women at will. It's also difficult to control if it is illegal, so you have minors being lured in. I don't see why promiscuity is perfectly legal but if a woman gets some money for her promiscuity, it is now illegal. Double standards.
-
Oh please..anyway..safe journey
KD, safe journey?
-
There are male prostitutes as well, as you probably already know.
The question by DB was if gays are coming out to great acclamation and demands that they be admitted in to the churches (where they are already members anyway) with special marks that refer to how they engage in sex,should the same "status" be granted prostitutes? I can see benches lined in the Holy Family Basilica with labels "Heterosexuals only"; Lesbians with children only"; Gay men without Children"; Lesbians with sperm donor kids"; "Female Prostitutes"; "Male Prostitutes"; Gay Prostitutes (Male) Only"; etc
Should prostitutes come out too?
I am personally against criminalization of prostitution. All it does is give the police excessive power to harass those women at will. It's also difficult to control if it is illegal, so you have minors being lured in. I don't see why promiscuity is perfectly legal but if a woman gets some money for her promiscuity, it is now illegal. Double standards.
OK, my bad. My mind went immediately to those women with sweaters covering their faces, rounded up occasionally on TV when there is an "operation".
-
The police are particularly harsh towards male gay prostitutes.
OK, my bad. My mind went immediately to those women with sweaters covering their faces, rounded up occasionally on TV when there is an "operation".
-
The police are particularly harsh towards male gay prostitutes.
OK, my bad. My mind went immediately to those women with sweaters covering their faces, rounded up occasionally on TV when there is an "operation".
I can believe that. I guess lesbians wouldn't be as easy to distinguish from other female in the same business.
-
I don't really know that much. I have seen many "ladies" with very male attributes mistreated at police stations and on police trucks (those blue ones) and black marias.
I notice that the False Prophet has decided to turn it in to a muslim vs christian thing. He is also appealing to his tribe. I won't be surprised if he gets traction there. The NIS Obienga has already issued support by pointing out that Makaburi and Rogo were indeed "not good". What does not shock me is that a man claiming closeness to God would support Extra Judicial killings! :
(https://www.kenya-today.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/10752083_10204246089344405_1043027233_n.jpg)
I can believe that. I guess lesbians wouldn't be as easy to distinguish from other female in the same business.
-
I haven't seen the clip yet. I will when time allows. But my views are something along the lines that I see pastors as having a product that people want. Same as a duka or a brothel.
When does one criminalize a person for providing something that is in high demand?
-
@Omollo, He is using the mtu wetu syndrome that politicians so successfully use to get out of trouble. You just need to point out group differences (here it is religions and tribes) and then claim persecution. Because people react against persecution, soon your personal woes are burdened by the community and you walk away scot free. But the prophet here is not lucky. The other one who Mohammed Ali outed, don't remember his name but he had hired a prostitute to twist her mouth and pretend to have been healed on stage. They followed her (the KTN crew) and interviewed her afterwards and as it turned out, he was a client and had given her an extra gig. He never recovered after being outed though he tried to use the persecution thing, too.
-
Ephesians 5:11 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather even expose them.
it don't matter how much rot is in the church and how damaging it is to its image, evil exposed is infinitesimally better than when covered up.
And I didn't notice he is an Okoyu, just like Apostle Mike
-
Morality comes from God, and if you don't believe in God then you must believe there is no morality.
The church of satan has always accepted gay, lesbian and bisexual members .
Your affinity for gayism is saddening. If its natural, why don't we see it being exhibited by goats, dogs, and other animals?
Who has evidence that heaven or god exist. If Kanyari is guilty of fraud; the churches are guilter of more fraud for selling unproven utopia to millions...and scaring esp children with fire and brimstone.
When it come to gays; if it's not criminal like in US; they are free to come out and heck to even influence more people to come out, explore their sexuality and find happiness;
As for criminals [depending on penal code] if they are stupid enough to incriminate themselves by coming out; the better for cops; like those prophet (conman) owour thugs who came out to declare their criminal past and were quickly arraigned in court.
If a gay confess in public, Its no different from those who practise bestiality, or adulterers or rapists, or drunkards coming out and confessing in public.
Under your atheism religion, whose opinion decides right and wrong?
-
bittetruth,
Morality is present in societies that believe in witchcraft and worship bullies and idols. Does that mean that these artefacts are responsible for morality?
What is interesting and spiritually nourishing about atheism? The realization that right and wrong are not things determined by irrational fear.
-
If its natural, why don't we see it being exhibited by goats, dogs, and other animals?
Nipate logic is very strange. Are there aspects of humans that are not to be found in goats, dogs, and other animals? If so, should they be considered unnatural?
-
If its natural, why don't we see it being exhibited by goats, dogs, and other animals?
Nipate logic is very strange. Are there aspects of humans that are not to be found in goats, dogs, and other animals? If so, should they be considered unnatural?
I'd say wanton violence, genocide and sadism is something I have not observed in goats.
-
Termie,
Atheism is a philosophy that emanates from Satan. It leads to abandoning the true God and to idolizing the self. Furthermore it at times supports lifestyles which are dangerous and self-destructive.
According to the Bible there is no such thing as being free from God and becoming independent. If one rejects God's ways, he automatically joins the other camp which is Satan’s camp. Satan is the Prince of the Power of the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. (Ephesians 2:2).
Atheism must therefore be opposed as we must oppose any other form of Satanism.
bittetruth,
Morality is present in societies that believe in witchcraft and worship bullies and idols. Does that mean that these artefacts are responsible for morality?
What is interesting and spiritually nourishing about atheism? The realization that right and wrong are not things determined by irrational fear.
-
Muli,
See below Biblical extract to know what I mean when I talk of natural vs unnatural.
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:26-27
Goats and dogs are not self conscious and that's why people like you should learn from them.
If its natural, why don't we see it being exhibited by goats, dogs, and other animals?
Nipate logic is very strange. Are there aspects of humans that are not to be found in goats, dogs, and other animals? If so, should they be considered unnatural?
-
What you may noticed is that while he appeals to Okuyuism and attempts to light up muslim-christian micro fire, the largest number of his victims are indeed Kikuyus. He preys on them in larger numbers than other Kenyan tribes. So I have no idea how he will manage to pull a Kenyatta Family trick here.
You know of course Kenyatta presided over a greater displacement of Kikuyus from their homes than the colonial government but here you are with his son treated as a god by the victims.
Ephesians 5:11 Lexham English Bible (LEB)
11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather even expose them.
it don't matter how much rot is in the church and how damaging it is to its image, evil exposed is infinitesimally better than when covered up.
And I didn't notice he is an Okoyu, just like Apostle Mike
-
Termie,
Atheism is a philosophy that emanates from Satan. It leads to abandoning the true God and to idolizing the self. Furthermore it at times supports lifestyles which are dangerous and self-destructive.
According to the Bible there is no such thing as being free from God and becoming independent. If one rejects God's ways, he automatically joins the other camp which is Satan’s camp. Satan is the Prince of the Power of the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. (Ephesians 2:2).
Atheism must therefore be opposed as we must oppose any other form of Satanism.
bittetruth,
Morality is present in societies that believe in witchcraft and worship bullies and idols. Does that mean that these artefacts are responsible for morality?
What is interesting and spiritually nourishing about atheism? The realization that right and wrong are not things determined by irrational fear.
bittertruth,
I am familiar with that view point having been a practicing Christian before. Few religions tolerate interrogation of their teachings. They will employ all manner of devices to discourage that.
That questioning them is the work of satan is a favored device.
I am leaning towards the conclusion that most religions are a way for humans and other intelligent species to cope with the certitude of their mortality.
Put another way. No death, no religion.
-
Kanyari is a classic religious leader. Charismatic and confident. If consenting adults want faith healing, they should be allowed to get it. A thin line between interfering with the pastor and thought police.
-
Muli,
See below Biblical extract to know what I mean when I talk of natural vs unnatural.
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:26-27
Goats and dogs are not self conscious and that's why people like you should learn from them.
The bit in read is interesting. Still, I don't see where goats, dogs, and other animals come in. And how, when, and where did you determine that goats and dogs are "not self conscious"? Lastly, on what basis do you assume that everyone considers the Bible to be the ultimate authority on anything?
Please try to construct an argument that is better than "on the basis of what I have chosen to believe or fantasize about ...".
-
This is a very myopic piece.
The only thing atheists are for is disagreeing with religion - nothing more than that. Atheism has no other purpose than to oppose religion. You cannot be for anything else in the capacity of atheist. can you?
Muli,
See below Biblical extract to know what I mean when I talk of natural vs unnatural.
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." Romans 1:26-27
Goats and dogs are not self conscious and that's why people like you should learn from them.
The bit in read is interesting. Still, I don't see where goats, dogs, and other animals come in. And how, when, and where did you determine that goats and dogs are "not self conscious"? Lastly, on what basis do you assume that everyone considers the Bible to be the ultimate authority on anything?
Please try to construct an argument that is better than "on the basis of what I have chosen to believe or fantasize about ...".
-
bittertruth, for me when I say "unnatural" I mean stuff that's plain for anybody to see: the "parts" don't fit. Square peg-round hole kinda thing. I guess that's why most people assume its a deviation instinctively. They can see that two things are being mis-"paired", like 2 left feet. :) Clearly one has not been designed for the other. You can find of all sorts of accidents in nature, like twins being born attached, hermaphrodites, sociopaths (psychpaths), children born without limbs etc. They are "natural" in the sense that they occur naturally, not engineered by us, but we can see they are disorders of sorts because we know what the whole/complete/proper condition looks like. So a bat's blindness is not some deviation, or natural "error", nor is our lack of flight because the healthy human is not made to fly, but if we are born unable to walk, we know something is not quite right somewhere, something's not functioning as its supposed to.
-
This is a very myopic piece.
The only thing atheists are for is disagreeing with religion - nothing more than that. Atheism has no other purpose than to oppose religion. You cannot be for anything else in the capacity of atheist. can you?
(1) I am not an atheist.
(2) Even if I were one, it would have bearing on the lack of thought and reason in your comments
-
Precisely. Most atheist if not all atheist are very moral people because they reached a position where they do good because it's good to do good. It's is instinctive to be nice,fair,moral, etc. When i compare myself to so called christian..i think am more christian.
What is interesting and spiritually nourishing about atheism? The realization that right and wrong are not things determined by irrational fear.
-
Precisely. Most atheist if not all atheist are very moral people because they reached a position where they do good because it's good to do good. It's is instinctive to be nice,fair,moral, etc. When i compare myself to so called christian..i think am more christian.
What is interesting and spiritually nourishing about atheism? The realization that right and wrong are not things determined by irrational fear.
Pundit, do you mean most atheists or the ones you know?
-
Mathematician have long studied population and came up with NORMAL DISTRIBUTION functions. What is obvious is any population is that small percent of people will be outliers.Majority of them will be in normal ranges. This is true for any human attribute. Sexuality, Intelligence, name it. What people in normal ranges should do is to understand there are outliers.For example i still remember this guy in high school who use to speak and act like a girl. I wouldn't be suprised if he does not get turned on by men and is most likely gay now. There are women who act, talk and behave like men. We know those people..they are our friends, neighbours, relatives,etc. These are outliers. You have very daft people. You have very smart folks. Then everyone else is in the normal spectrum.
Normal people should not dictate to "super-normal or sub-normal" people. As long as any act doesn't affect you; you should let people be...gays for one.
The outliers are a gift to humanity. Without them we would still be stuck at our normal base level....with other primates like monkeys..foraging and jumping around trees.
Without supra or sub normal sexual beings..we would still be engaging in sex like monkeys..we wouldn't know about foreplays,oral sex, anal sex (yes), orgasm, g-spot and all sexual advance we human have.
bittertruth, for me when I say "unnatural" I mean stuff that's plain for anybody to see: the "parts" don't fit. Square peg-round hole kinda thing. I guess that's why most people assume its a deviation instinctively. They can see that two things are being mis-"paired", like 2 left feet. :) Clearly one has not been designed for the other. You can find of all sorts of accidents in nature, like twins being born attached, hermaphrodites, sociopaths (psychpaths), children born without limbs etc. They are "natural" in the sense that they occur naturally, not engineered by us, but we can see they are disorders of sorts because we know what the whole/complete/proper condition looks like. So a bat's blindness is not some deviation, or natural "error", nor is our lack of flight because the healthy human is not made to fly, but if we are born unable to walk, we know something is not quite right somewhere, something's not functioning as its supposed to.
-
I think both.Atheist have attained intellectual capacity to empathize and to separate facts from BS.
Pundit, do you mean most atheists or the ones you know?
-
Mathematician have long studied population and came up with NORMAL DISTRIBUTION functions. What is obvious is any population is that small percent of people will be outliers.Majority of them will be in normal ranges. This is true for any human attribute. Sexuality, Intelligence, name it. What people in normal ranges should do is to understand there are outliers.For example i still remember this guy in high school who use to speak and act like a girl. I wouldn't be suprised if he does not get turned on by men and is most likely gay now. There are women who act, talk and behave like men. We know those people..they are our friends, neighbours, relatives,etc. These are outliers. You have very daft people. You have very smart folks. Then everyone else is in the normal spectrum.
Normal people should not dictate to "super-normal or sub-normal" people. As long as any act doesn't affect you; you should let people be...gays for one.
The outliers are a gift to humanity. Without them we would still be stuck at our normal base level....with other primates like monkeys..foraging and jumping around trees.
Without supra or sub normal sexual beings..we would still be engaging in sex like monkeys..we wouldn't know about foreplays,oral sex, anal sex (yes), orgasm, g-spot and all sexual advance we human have.
My opinion is that they have an abnormality much like someone born blind or lame or with both parts. I don't think they should be criminalized any more than these other groups. There are studies that show some of them were exposed to hormones of the opposite sex while in the womb, the same for trans-gendered, those who feel like they are in the wrong body. There are also some differences in the structure of the brains of some that correspond to that of the opposite sex, some gay men are like straight women in their emotional brain centres. Some lesbians like straight men. However, not all men and women with these brains are gay, so it shows a predisposition to it, but the factor that leads one to develop the orientation is not known, the old nurture vs nature debates on virtually all abnormal mental conditions. Twin studies also show it's not genetic in origin, so more likely the environment of the womb combined with other unknown social factors is the cause.
I think both.Atheist have attained intellectual capacity to empathize and to separate facts from BS.
Pundit, do you mean most atheists or the ones you know?
Some of the angriest, bitterest, most virulent commenters on the net are atheists. I don't think atheism makes anyone better. People are good or bad depending mostly on how they were raised and how their choices over the years has built up their character. Greedy people who have not trained themselves to delay gratification (self-control) will likely be corrupt and thieves regardless of the ideology they follow, though religion may serve as an extra inhibitive factor for them. It comes down to an accumulation of choices over the years. Ideology can give motivation but it comes down to choices building up a character predisposed to either commit good or evil.
-
1. Its not my business to know what you are. The point I am spitting on your face is that Gayism is demonic , satanic and unnatural.
2. You hijacked my post and infiltrated malarkey.
3. I have no affinity for human anus like you.
4. I am not your gay wife. And as such not indebted to "reason" with you.
This is a very myopic piece.
The only thing atheists are for is disagreeing with religion - nothing more than that. Atheism has no other purpose than to oppose religion. You cannot be for anything else in the capacity of atheist. can you?
(1) I am not an atheist.
(2) Even if I were one, it would have bearing on the lack of thought and reason in your comments
-
Thanks. You admit there are "abnormal" people. Whether caused by nature or nuture..what would you do if you sibling or your kid turn out abnormal. It an entirely "random" process. It could happen to you. Anyway the great thing with "abnormality" is that it's give them an edge in something else. Gays for example are more likely to be bright artist...they use both side of their brains. So for them being gay or queer or abnormal is gift..and as Tim Cook said.."god's greatest gift". Let me home in..i grew up non-neuro-typical..obviously brilliant but absent minded...obviously with great memory but forgetful...i was not "normal"..my daughter is like me..she drove her normal mother nuts..she couldn't speak a word until she was 3 and half yrs. Not baba. Not Mama.Nothing..except a really advanced "sign" language for kid. It been like exactly an yr seen she talked words. Once she started..she had jump classes..is obviously gifted..Eisteen didn't talk until he was 5yrs... there are in world of 7 billion people..a million such people...outliers. Your stone age religion has nothing for them...they ascribe normal for everyone...sin for abnormality. Just like the people we met..who were dishing advices on why our nearly 4yr old then was saying nothing...while 9 months kids were talking...from withcraft, unpaid dowry, poor parenting, lack of other kids to play with, name it. My wife was dead worried..i was relaxed...i grew up with my mother convinced i was deaf...but i wasn't..i zoned out when i concentrate..later on this attribute would help me...campus time..i use to work for international org...never attended class..but i just need notes one day before exams...and i was done. Never resat ANY EXAM all my life. Scored As except where my dylexia came in (english and swa).It is what made me a programmer...
As we dig deeper into science..we will understand "abnormality"..hopefully we won't treat "abnormality" and have normal 7B people following 10 commandments.When i worked for UN...there was this kiuk guy..brilliant but gay(pedophile--i suspect like catholic priest he was forced to take advantage of kids)...everyone knew he was gay..eventually fired for peodhile activities..went on to open a gay club in Mombasa. If such people are encourage to come out...to meet similarly gay people..where is the problem.
These people are humans..it could be you, your sister, your brother, your relatives, your friends, your boss, your mentor..name them.
Embrace humanity in all it's form. Stop talking about NATURAL OR NORMAL.Remember in every aspect of human life..we have outliers.Why would somebody risk being known as gay....if it was not important for them.During campus time..we were classmate with Anyonas(2)...like father like son...brilliant folks (Anyona son was very bright since his days at Nairobi Primary and Alliance...always tops..but they were nothing but normal....
Arsenal game beckons...but think about the OUTLIERS. And think about what stigmatizing them does to them.
My opinion is that they have an abnormality much like someone born blind or lame or with both parts. I don't think they should be criminalized any more than these other groups. There are studies that show some of them were exposed to hormones of the opposite sex while in the womb, the same for trans-gendered, those who feel like they are in the wrong body. There are also some differences in the structure of the brains of some that correspond to that of the opposite sex, some gay men are like straight women in their emotional brain centres. Some lesbians like straight men. However, not all men and women with these brains are gay, so it shows a predisposition to it, but the factor that leads one to develop the orientation is not known, the old nurture vs nature debates on virtually all abnormal mental conditions. Twin studies also show it's not genetic in origin, so more likely the environment of the womb combined with other unknown social factors is the cause.
Some of the angriest, bitterest, most virulent commenters on the net are atheists. I don't think atheism makes anyone better. People are good or bad depending mostly on how they were raised and how their choices over the years has built up their character. Greedy people who have not trained themselves to delay gratification (self-control) will likely be corrupt and thieves regardless of the ideology they follow, though religion may serve as an extra inhibitive factor for them. It comes down to an accumulation of choices over the years. Ideology can give motivation but it comes down to choices building up a character predisposed to either commit good or evil.
-
Mathematician have long studied population and came up with NORMAL DISTRIBUTION functions. What is obvious is any population is that small percent of people will be outliers.Majority of them will be in normal ranges. This is true for any human attribute. Sexuality, Intelligence, name it. What people in normal ranges should do is to understand there are outliers.For example i still remember this guy in high school who use to speak and act like a girl. I wouldn't be suprised if he does not get turned on by men and is most likely gay now. There are women who act, talk and behave like men. We know those people..they are our friends, neighbours, relatives,etc. These are outliers. You have very daft people. You have very smart folks. Then everyone else is in the normal spectrum.
Normal people should not dictate to "super-normal or sub-normal" people. As long as any act doesn't affect you; you should let people be...gays for one.
The outliers are a gift to humanity. Without them we would still be stuck at our normal base level....with other primates like monkeys..foraging and jumping around trees.
Without supra or sub normal sexual beings..we would still be engaging in sex like monkeys..we wouldn't know about foreplays,oral sex, anal sex (yes), orgasm, g-spot and all sexual advance we human have.
bittertruth, for me when I say "unnatural" I mean stuff that's plain for anybody to see: the "parts" don't fit. Square peg-round hole kinda thing. I guess that's why most people assume its a deviation instinctively. They can see that two things are being mis-"paired", like 2 left feet. :) Clearly one has not been designed for the other. You can find of all sorts of accidents in nature, like twins being born attached, hermaphrodites, sociopaths (psychpaths), children born without limbs etc. They are "natural" in the sense that they occur naturally, not engineered by us, but we can see they are disorders of sorts because we know what the whole/complete/proper condition looks like. So a bat's blindness is not some deviation, or natural "error", nor is our lack of flight because the healthy human is not made to fly, but if we are born unable to walk, we know something is not quite right somewhere, something's not functioning as its supposed to.
Correct. There are gays who are wired that way genetically. And it is largely by chance.
Given that it is not unique to Homo sapiens, I consider homosexuality to be strong evidence for Darwinian(probabilistic) nature of evolution. Individuals that end up with gay characteristics are something of an evolutionary dead end; at least in the wild.
They are not likely to reproduce in the wild. Yet we still end up with gay individuals. This points to a certain random distribution of gays in any normal population.
-
Thanks. You admit there are "abnormal" people. Whether caused by nature or nuture..what would you do if you sibling or your kid turn out abnormal. It an entirely "random" process. It could happen to you. Anyway the great thing with "abnormality" is that it's give them an edge in something else. Gays for example are more likely to be bright artist...they use both side of their brains. So for them being gay or queer or abnormal is gift..and as Tim Cook said.."god's greatest gift". Let me home in..i grew up non-neuro-typical..obviously brilliant but absent minded...obviously with great memory but forgetful...i was not "normal"..my daughter is like me..she drove her normal mother nuts..she couldn't speak a word until she was 3 and half yrs. Not baba. Not Mama.Nothing..except a really advanced "sign" language for kid. It been like exactly an yr seen she talked words. Once she started..she had jump classes..is obviously gifted..Eisteen didn't talk until he was 5yrs... there are in world of 7 billion people..a million such people...outliers. Your stone age religion has nothing for them...they ascribe normal for everyone...sin for abnormality. Just like the people we met..who were dishing advices on why our nearly 4yr old then was saying nothing...while 9 months kids were talking...from withcraft, unpaid dowry, poor parenting, lack of other kids to play with, name it. My wife was dead worried..i was relaxed...i grew up with my mother convinced i was deaf...but i wasn't..i zoned out when i concentrate..later on this attribute would help me...campus time..i use to work for international org...never attended class..but i just need notes one day before exams...and i was done. Never resat ANY EXAM all my life. Scored As except where my dylexia came in (english and swa).It is what made me a programmer...
As we dig deeper into science..we will understand "abnormality"..hopefully we won't treat "abnormality" and have normal 7B people following 10 commandments.When i worked for UN...there was this kiuk guy..brilliant but gay(pedophile--i suspect like catholic priest he was forced to take advantage of kids)...everyone knew he was gay..eventually fired for peodhile activities..went on to open a gay club in Mombasa. If such people are encourage to come out...to meet similarly gay people..where is the problem.
These people are humans..it could be you, your sister, your brother, your relatives, your friends, your boss, your mentor..name them.
Embrace humanity in all it's form. Stop talking about NATURAL OR NORMAL.Remember in every aspect of human life..we have outliers.Why would somebody risk being known as gay....if it was not important for them.During campus time..we were classmate with Anyonas(2)...like father like son...brilliant folks (Anyona son was very bright since his days at Nairobi Primary and Alliance...always tops..but they were nothing but normal....
Arsenal game beckons...but think about the OUTLIERS. And think about what stigmatizing them does to them.
Pundit, you are preaching @ me. Maybe you should preach to people who have a problem with gay people coming out? Where did you get the impression that was me? The problem I have with people like you, you presume too much. Just because I disagree with you on one area does not mean I fit a particular box you've carved out for me.
-
Terminator,
Humans by nature are "gay". We "began" as single cell. Then specialization. But as of now..men still have tits (breast) that are for all "purpose" useless...women have clit (which really is a penis). Mix and Match during sperm-egg. This is natural uncontrolled random process. You just do not know what will come out. Well we know from random processes..at least majority 98% will turn out normal. 2% will turn out abnormal.
So biology or nature..can explain some of these things.
When it come to lifestyle...that really depend on "freedom" an individual has...from a society.
Correct. There are gays who are wired that way genetically. And it is largely by chance.
Given that it is not unique to Homo sapiens, I consider homosexuality to be strong evidence for Darwinian(probabilistic) nature of evolution. Individuals that end up with gay characteristics are something of an evolutionary dead end; at least in the wild.
They are not likely to reproduce in the wild. Yet we still end up with gay individuals. This points to a certain random distribution of gays in any normal population.
-
Well from what i gather..you love gays and murderers [and other sinners] but you just do not want them near your church. Maybe i do not have to second guess you...but let me state my position..i am open minded....there were times i was anti-gays...heck i was anti-anything non-missionary sex...but am glad am very open minded..enough to questions things (including my beliefs (sum of all), dogmas)..and right now..am okay with gays.
My advice stay open minded..
Pundit, you are preaching @ me. Maybe you should preach to people who have a problem with gay people coming out? Where did you get the impression that was me? The problem I have with people like you, you presume too much. Just because I disagree with you on one area does not mean I fit a particular box you've carved out for me.
-
Well from what i gather..you love gays and murderers [and other sinners] but you just do not want them near your church. Maybe i do not have to second guess you...but let me state my position..i am open minded....there were times i was anti-gays...heck i was anti-anything non-missionary sex...but am glad am very open minded..enough to questions things (including my beliefs (sum of all), dogmas)..and right now..am okay with gays.
My advice stay open minded..
Pundit, you are preaching @ me. Maybe you should preach to people who have a problem with gay people coming out? Where did you get the impression that was me? The problem I have with people like you, you presume too much. Just because I disagree with you on one area does not mean I fit a particular box you've carved out for me.
Well, you "gather" wrong. There are many gay Catholics, I am in a chat room with many of them, most have chosen celibacy. Some have not. All this stuff I know about the orientation, I have learned from them. The gay I know in real life are not religious. I would advice you to stay open minded too, especially about religious people, actually follow what people say instead of presuming or projecting ideas onto them. I compared gays to the blind and lame. Do you think I mistreat or hate people who are blind or lame? Or do you think it makes me feel deeper compassion for them? Some of the hypocrites on these discussions are actually the true homophobes, would treat gay people like dirt in real life if they didn't think it would cost them. To them this is just ideology, nothing more. So this boxing people is really something you should avoid.
As to the other matter, Identical twins who share the same genetic material do not share the orientation, that makes nonsense of claims of genetics, in my view. Until some proof is found, I will stick with the hormones in the wombs, stuff that's been found, not hunches.
-
Okay i get you. But just know if you treat people differently; it doesn't matter.you will find an excuse to mistreat them. I treat people "equal"... be there straight or catholic or gay.
For me it doesn't matter what cause one to be gay.....i have chosen respect gays....having realized whatever they will do won't affect me. I have no respect for rapist. for murderers.
Well, you "gather" wrong. There are many gay Catholics, I am in a chat room with many of them, most have chosen celibacy. Some have not. All this stuff I know about the orientation, I have learned from them. The gay I know in real life are not religious. I would advice you to stay open minded too, especially about religious people, actually follow what people say instead of presuming or projecting ideas onto them. I compared gays to the blind and lame. Do you think I mistreat or hate people who are blind or lame? Or do you think it makes me feel deeper compassion for them? Some of the hypocrites on these discussions are actually the true homophobes, would treat gay people like dirt in real life if they didn't think it would cost them. To them this is just ideology, nothing more. So this boxing people is really something you should avoid.
As to the other matter, Identical twins who share the same genetic material do not share the orientation, that makes nonsense of claims of genetics, in my view. Until some proof is found, I will stick with the hormones in the wombs, stuff that's been found, not hunches.
-
Okay i get you. But just know if you treat people differently; it doesn't matter.you will find an excuse to mistreat them. I treat people "equal"... be there straight or catholic or gay.
For me it doesn't matter what cause one to be gay.....i have chosen respect gays....having realized whatever they will do won't affect me. I have no respect for rapist. for murderers.
I approach gays too as people. When you talk to a gay person, your mind is not thinking "They are gay" but whatever it is that's up, like any other person. But knowing these people up close is what makes you want to understand what the orientation is all about. As I have learned more about the causes, it has not made me less compassionate at all, but more compassionate, because I realize they did not choose this for themselves. I have nursed people who are "different", mentally challenged, and one with Alzheimer's disease. To me, "different" is not a reason to be uncharitable, if someone's life is extra difficult, what it draws out of me is compassion, not mistreatment. These debates we have are done academically, and I state what I see as truth and facts, but just because some people write platitudes here does not mean it translates to the attitudes they do have towards other human beings. Enjoy your Arsenal game! :zen:
-
Terminator,
Humans by nature are "gay". We "began" as single cell. Then specialization. But as of now..men still have tits (breast) that are for all "purpose" useless...women have clit (which really is a penis). Mix and Match during sperm-egg. This is natural uncontrolled random process. You just do not know what will come out. Well we know from random processes..at least majority 98% will turn out normal. 2% will turn out abnormal.
So biology or nature..can explain some of these things.
When it come to lifestyle...that really depend on "freedom" an individual has...from a society.
Correct. There are gays who are wired that way genetically. And it is largely by chance.
Given that it is not unique to Homo sapiens, I consider homosexuality to be strong evidence for Darwinian(probabilistic) nature of evolution. Individuals that end up with gay characteristics are something of an evolutionary dead end; at least in the wild.
They are not likely to reproduce in the wild. Yet we still end up with gay individuals. This points to a certain random distribution of gays in any normal population.
Hehehe...you have a point about gender. Individuals will fall in a continuum clustering around the normal.
The point I am making though, with reference to homosexuality in other animals is that some are wired that way.
I think that in fact calls for a more considerate approach of their condition.
That they fall in that part of the continuum not by choice or nurture.
-
1. Its not my business to know what you are. The point I am spitting on your face is that Gayism is demonic , satanic and unnatural.
2. You hijacked my post and infiltrated malarkey.
3. I have no affinity for human anus like you.
4. I am not your gay wife. And as such not indebted to "reason" with you.
bittertruth:
You can obviously read and write. On that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that you went to school. If so, please show some signs that you did. Crude insults simply cannot make up for the appalling failure to properly use the head.
-
That's the usual gay fray.
bittertruth:
You can obviously read and write. On that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that you went to school. If so, please show some signs that you did. Crude insults simply cannot make up for the appalling failure to properly use the head.
-
Negro,
Put your sh*t together and rein in your emotions.
Homosexuality is detestable before God and the beauty of it is, you don't have to be a Christian. You can pursue your faggotry but don't imagine putting God off your mind makes Him non-existent.
There are many adulterers in the church but that will never make it right, God will judge them
That's the usual gay fray.
bittertruth:
You can obviously read and write. On that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that you went to school. If so, please show some signs that you did. Crude insults simply cannot make up for the appalling failure to properly use the head.
-
Negro,
Put your sh*t together and rein in your emotions.
Homosexuality is detestable before God and the beauty of it is, you don't have to be a Christian. You can pursue your faggotry but don't imagine putting God off your mind makes Him non-existent.
There are many adulterers in the church but that will never make it right, God will judge them
Vooke:
"Good" to see you join your friends in a display of the "Christian" mindset; same advice to you too. By the way, it is high time you gave up on the "negro this" and "negro that" thing. Is it supposed to be "cool"? It was amusing once or twice; it has now become childish and silly. Now, let's pray.
-
i don't recall aksin if it was cool or not before using it, you can bet it is less infantile than MoonKi :)
Why does homosexuality get Christians worked up? I'd only draw the line when they start hauling preachers to courts for bigotry for preaching that God is against it because He is. Sadly that's where we are getting.
Homosexuality is deviation from scriptures in the same way adultery is. God will judge both
Vooke:
"Good" to see you join your friends in a display of the "Christian" mindset; same advice to you too. By the way, it is high time you gave up on the "negro this" and "negro that" thing. Is it supposed to be "cool"? It was amusing once or twice; it has now become childish and silly. Now, let's pray.