Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Gikomba_Hawker on July 18, 2021, 10:35:00 PM
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No Kenyan politician can hold a candle to my dad – Tom Mboya’s son
https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/magazines/people-power/no-kenyan-politician-can-hold-a-candle-to-my-dad-tom-mboya-s-son-3477342
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Bullshit. Mboya was a Cia agent that fell on his espionage sword. A fool with hawkish tendencies such of tuju
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Remembering Kenyan statesman Tom Mboya
https://www.monitor.co.ug/uganda/oped/commentary/remembering-kenyan-statesman-tom-mboya-3460944
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I agree. Mboya was ahead of his time. The man was brilliant and would have certainly done better than Odinga. That is why they had to kill him.
Ruto is Mboya without international connections.
Mboya was terrific.
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Kiambu mafia propaganda. Mboya and Kibaki were briliant in Kenyatta cabinet full of thugs and pseudo-intellectuals like Njonjos, Koinanges and others - who had gotten degrees without education - or an outright illiterates like Moi. Mboya was NOT TUJU. Mboya despite not going to university (I think he did correspondence later) was intelligent, good orator, well know pan africanist and had such depth of character/intelligence - he was clearly ahead of his time.
Try to find some of Tom Mboya interviews. Tuju is just a new caster....he just knows how to speak good english.
Tom Mboya was an equal to greats like JF Kennedy.
Bullshit. Mboya was a Cia agent that fell on his espionage sword. A fool with hawkish tendencies such of tuju
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March 21, 1966 - Tom Mboya, Kenya's Minister of Economic at President John F. Kennedy's grave
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Pundit TJ Mboya lacked solid ground game due to elitist image. He definitely had no Ruto or Obama intelligence. Ruto does not have international network because it is not an effective tool - he has looted the funds Raila gets from German or Dubai contacts. Mzungu does not directly influence polls and once in power would quickly make amends. Pragmatics.
Mboya was brilliant but elitist... no match for Jaramogi who with likes of JM were the real ground players. Way above Tuju but not quite Ruto. Maybe Kibaki level yes.
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Mboya as Kanu boy was floored badly by Jaramogi KPU Kavirondo party in 1966. After Luos quit Kanu. He gave excellent speeches and won in Nairobi but Luo mashinani nothing.
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Ati Ruto is modern day Tom Mboya…I have heard it all, nothing shocks me anymore. If you asked me, Ruto is nowhere near Mboya, Kibaki, Matiba, Raila, Jaramogi, Mzee Kenyatta and many other giants. Ruto is who he hangs out with, the waititus, Sonko etc, low lifes who will steal from their mothers,buy education and many other character flaws. In a modern developed country, these low lives end up in prison, in a country full of drunken, mediocre idiots, they get elected to the most important seats that they are totally unprepared or qualified. The results are completely predictable, 60% unemployment, lack of basic amenities, broken and corrupt justice system in a country where everyone looks miserable and desperate. Keep doing the same things but expecting different result, it’s insanity.
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Ruto is very intelligent Bwana F&B. He just lacks morals or scruples (thus collects and spreads fleas all over); and worse lacks the Kagame or Meles magic Pundit lies he does. The results of his 5yr co-presidency I agree with you here - are quite clear. I find Obama to be the same forked tongue mobilizing rockstar that delivered hot air. 2 years into his "change" people had had it and resorted to executive orders the rest of his term. Not even immigration nor gun reforms were ever achieved.
I have not been impressed by Uhuruto's clumsy harebrained copy of Kibakinomics without the introspection. A mountain of debt compounded by covid. Raila is strategic ala Kibaki; - physical hyperactivity and political cunning is what Pundit mistakes as the rare rounded skill. No I haven't seen it in Ruto.
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Meet The Press Tom Mboya Interview
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Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
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Why kill Mboya if he was useless. Mboya had international ties; All Mboya needed was for Kenyatta to fire Moi and make him VP; and become president; That Mboya could have influenced. Obviously those who did not see Moi - saw Mboya - terrific talents - the same way they see Ruto talents.
Mboya international contacts were VERY important then because budget was probably 80 percent donor funded.
Mboya was killed 1yr into 69 - I think if he had stayed - he would have with help of CIA either replaced Moi or overthrown Jomo Kenyatta.
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Mboya, described as “brilliant, and a man of extraordinary intelligence and dynamism” was a prime mover in Kenya’s formative years and helped build KANU into the formidable political machine it turned out to be. At the time Mboya and his colleagues in KANU were having a hard time retaining members of the so-called minority communities who had ganged up to form the Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU). David Goldsworthy, in his book Tom Mboya: The Man Kenya Wanted to Forget narrates the “astonishing win” of Mboya for the Nairobi East seat. This was during Kenya’s first multi-party elections in February 1961, which KANU won by a landslide. “He won astonishingly,” Goldsworthy writes. The numbers were: Tom Mboya (KANU) – 31,407; Munyua Waiyaki (Independent) – 2668; and Martin Shikuku (KADU) – 1557.
“It was a triumph that confirmed him beyond challenge as the political king of Nairobi,” Goldsworthy writes. “It represented the most resounding and personally satisfying blow he ever struck in his career against ‘negative tribalism’. Indeed it led some to conclude that thanks to Mboya the struggle to achieve a common sense of Kenyan nationhood was on the way to being won. On that euphoric night of the 27th [February], as Kikuyu cheered Luo, the most optimistic of forecasts for unity seemed justifiable.”
Why would Goldsworthy term Mboya’s win “astonishing”? It is because “for the 1961 election Nairobi East had nearly 40,000 registered voters, of whom about 27,000 were Kikuyu, Embu and Meru.” Mboya himself was Luo and Goldsworthy continues to expound on the reasons he resonated with the Kikuyus who failed to support Waiyaki, who was not only their own kinsman but hailed from a privileged background within the Kikuyu chieftains.
https://newafricanmagazine.com/3895/3/
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Jaramogi lived to his old age and died under-achiever - his son Raila is about to die without achieving it - because he lack Tom Mboya brains and tactics - that kind of strategic tactical thinking lacking in most Luos.
Jaramogi was driven by raw ambition - Tom Mboya was a lot smarter.
Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
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Mboya, described as “brilliant, and a man of extraordinary intelligence and dynamism” was a prime mover in Kenya’s formative years and helped build KANU into the formidable political machine it turned out to be. At the time Mboya and his colleagues in KANU were having a hard time retaining members of the so-called minority communities who had ganged up to form the Kenya African Democratic Union (KADU). David Goldsworthy, in his book Tom Mboya: The Man Kenya Wanted to Forget narrates the “astonishing win” of Mboya for the Nairobi East seat. This was during Kenya’s first multi-party elections in February 1961, which KANU won by a landslide. “He won astonishingly,” Goldsworthy writes. The numbers were: Tom Mboya (KANU) – 31,407; Munyua Waiyaki (Independent) – 2668; and Martin Shikuku (KADU) – 1557.
“It was a triumph that confirmed him beyond challenge as the political king of Nairobi,” Goldsworthy writes. “It represented the most resounding and personally satisfying blow he ever struck in his career against ‘negative tribalism’. Indeed it led some to conclude that thanks to Mboya the struggle to achieve a common sense of Kenyan nationhood was on the way to being won. On that euphoric night of the 27th [February], as Kikuyu cheered Luo, the most optimistic of forecasts for unity seemed justifiable.”
Why would Goldsworthy term Mboya’s win “astonishing”? It is because “for the 1961 election Nairobi East had nearly 40,000 registered voters, of whom about 27,000 were Kikuyu, Embu and Meru.” Mboya himself was Luo and Goldsworthy continues to expound on the reasons he resonated with the Kikuyus who failed to support Waiyaki, who was not only their own kinsman but hailed from a privileged background within the Kikuyu chieftains.
https://newafricanmagazine.com/3895/3/
Why was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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You are wrong. His genuine admiration among Gema was what scared the hell out of Jomo and his clique. The admiration was NOT because he aligned himself to Jomo. The Gema folks sensed something real about him. Call it charisma. Call it non-tribal authenticity. Call it whatever. They liked him. It had nothing to do with Jomo. Stop applying cheap and lazy Kenyatta and Moi era analytical tools to Mboya.
JFK had charisma. Americans concede that. Only Kenyans are unwilling to recognize a Kenyan who manages to cut through the tribal bull. It's like it's so unbelievable that it cannot be true or should not be recognized at all costs (another legacy of the Kenyatta and Moi eras). Yes, Mboya cut through the tribal crap. We do not need your concession. It's already in the hearts of millions of Kenyans, permanently beyond your cheap reach.
My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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One can call Tom Mboya names, but he was never linked to any land grabbing that was taking place although he was high up in the Kenyatta regime at that time. No where was his name ever mentioned in any scheme to loot public funds.
Pundit calls Tom Mboya elitist. Tom Mboya was a people's man. Even my simple father who was a teacher at that time was able to visit Mboya's house in Lavington. Mboya like many Luos was always smartly dressed. The man spoke Luo, Kikuyu, Swahili and English fluently and that in the 1960's.
As of being a CIA spy, this was the way to brandmark Mboya and get rid of him after he had helped Kenyatta and his Kiambu mafia get rid of Jaramogi. Paul Ngei even went as far as denoucing Mboya as an American spy in the Kenyan parliament. Ngei was himself a man without any personal or public morals and was just out to please Kenyatta in order to save his own skin. Mboya had very good to the US governement and other US organisations as it was through him many Kenyans got their education in the US in the late 50's and early 60's.
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Very nice. In 1990 - I read Tom Mboya biography and I was really impressed. Later of course I have come to know his full story. He was a man ahead of his time. That is why Kiambu mafia had to kill him.
Tom Mboya is an African Icon - what he did not only for the Kenya, Africa and black race will forever remain iconic - and he did it at such young age it unbelievable.
Listen to this depth of thinking. Maybe only Kibaki could measure up.
One can call Tom Mboya names, but he was never linked to any land grabbing that was taking place although he was high up in the Kenyatta regime at that time. No where was his name ever mentioned in any scheme to loot public funds.
Pundit calls Tom Mboya elitist. Tom Mboya was a people's man. Even my simple father who was a teacher at that time was able to visit Mboya's house in Lavington. Mboya like many Luos was always smartly dressed. The man spoke Luo, Kikuyu, Swahili and English fluently and that in the 1960's.
As of being a CIA spy, this was the way to brandmark Mboya and get rid of him after he had helped Kenyatta and his Kiambu mafia get rid of Jaramogi. Paul Ngei even went as far as denoucing Mboya as an American spy in the Kenyan parliament. Ngei was himself a man without any personal or public morals and was just out to please Kenyatta in order to save his own skin. Mboya had very good to the US governement and other US organisations as it was through him many Kenyans got their education in the US in the late 50's and early 60's.
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Muguka addict don't make this personal. Mboya is a historical figure not your father. He could not hack it among his Luo cousins but you want us to believe he had worked up Gema enough to scare Jomo? He was obviously a great orator and over-achiever, doesn't wash away his inability to outdo Jaramogi mashinani. Be objective.
How is mutumba business? Glad to see you are able to type something beyond the 10 one-liner threads a day.
You are wrong. His genuine admiration among Gema was what scared the hell out of Jomo and his clique. The admiration was NOT because he aligned himself to Jomo. The Gema folks sensed something real about him. Call it charisma. Call it non-tribal authenticity. Call it whatever. They liked him. It had nothing to do with Jomo. Stop applying cheap and lazy Kenyatta and Moi era analytical tools to Mboya.
JFK had charisma. Americans concede that. Only Kenyans are unwilling to recognize a Kenyan who manages to cut through the tribal bull. It's like it's so unbelievable that it cannot be true or should not be recognized at all costs (another legacy of the Kenyatta and Moi eras). Yes, Mboya cut through the tribal crap. We do not need your concession. It's already in the hearts of millions of Kenyans, permanently beyond your cheap reach.
My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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What did Jaramogi ever achieve after that - Chairman of Cotton Lint Board? Mboya was killed because Kiambu mafai feared him; Mboya very ambitious; and Kenyatta was starting to get his many strokes.
Muguka addict don't make this personal. Mboya is a historical figure not your father. He could not hack it among his Luo cousins but you want us to believe he had worked up Gema enough to scare Jomo? He was obviously a great orator and over-achiever, doesn't wash away his inability to outdo Jaramogi mashinani. Be objective.
How is mutumba business? Glad to see you are able to type something beyond the 10 one-liner threads a day.
You are wrong. His genuine admiration among Gema was what scared the hell out of Jomo and his clique. The admiration was NOT because he aligned himself to Jomo. The Gema folks sensed something real about him. Call it charisma. Call it non-tribal authenticity. Call it whatever. They liked him. It had nothing to do with Jomo. Stop applying cheap and lazy Kenyatta and Moi era analytical tools to Mboya.
JFK had charisma. Americans concede that. Only Kenyans are unwilling to recognize a Kenyan who manages to cut through the tribal bull. It's like it's so unbelievable that it cannot be true or should not be recognized at all costs (another legacy of the Kenyatta and Moi eras). Yes, Mboya cut through the tribal crap. We do not need your concession. It's already in the hearts of millions of Kenyans, permanently beyond your cheap reach.
My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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Mboya had Ruto problem of rattling the status quo. Unlike say Moi or Kibaki. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
I agree Jaramogi did not amount to anything. But at least he got to see his grandkids.
What did Jaramogi ever achieve after that - Chairman of Cotton Lint Board? Mboya was killed because Kiambu mafai feared him; Mboya very ambitious; and Kenyatta was starting to get his many strokes.
Muguka addict don't make this personal. Mboya is a historical figure not your father. He could not hack it among his Luo cousins but you want us to believe he had worked up Gema enough to scare Jomo? He was obviously a great orator and over-achiever, doesn't wash away his inability to outdo Jaramogi mashinani. Be objective.
How is mutumba business? Glad to see you are able to type something beyond the 10 one-liner threads a day.
You are wrong. His genuine admiration among Gema was what scared the hell out of Jomo and his clique. The admiration was NOT because he aligned himself to Jomo. The Gema folks sensed something real about him. Call it charisma. Call it non-tribal authenticity. Call it whatever. They liked him. It had nothing to do with Jomo. Stop applying cheap and lazy Kenyatta and Moi era analytical tools to Mboya.
JFK had charisma. Americans concede that. Only Kenyans are unwilling to recognize a Kenyan who manages to cut through the tribal bull. It's like it's so unbelievable that it cannot be true or should not be recognized at all costs (another legacy of the Kenyatta and Moi eras). Yes, Mboya cut through the tribal crap. We do not need your concession. It's already in the hearts of millions of Kenyans, permanently beyond your cheap reach.
My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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When you're super-gifted like Mboya or Ruto - knowing you can outthink, out-talk, out-plan, out-run your opponent - it hard not to be want it all; coz you deserve.
What are you loser now celebrating - assassination? Everybody dies eventually!
What is important is that Mboya achieved in 39 yrs lot more than Jaramogi did in 85yrs.
Outside luo nyanza - Jaramogi has few admirers
Mboya had Ruto problem of rattling the status quo. Unlike say Moi or Kibaki. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
I agree Jaramogi did not amount to anything. But at least he got to see his grandkids.
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You know nothing about what you are talking about. I'm not talking to convince you (I always knew that was a lost cause). Rather, I'm talking to those young ones who have no clue about Mboya. God forbid that they should view Mboya through your weird lenses.
We won't get into your addictions. We can only imagine what they are. Spare me.
Muguka addict don't make this personal. Mboya is a historical figure not your father. He could not hack it among his Luo cousins but you want us to believe he had worked up Gema enough to scare Jomo? He was obviously a great orator and over-achiever, doesn't wash away his inability to outdo Jaramogi mashinani. Be objective.
How is mutumba business? Glad to see you are able to type something beyond the 10 one-liner threads a day.
You are wrong. His genuine admiration among Gema was what scared the hell out of Jomo and his clique. The admiration was NOT because he aligned himself to Jomo. The Gema folks sensed something real about him. Call it charisma. Call it non-tribal authenticity. Call it whatever. They liked him. It had nothing to do with Jomo. Stop applying cheap and lazy Kenyatta and Moi era analytical tools to Mboya.
JFK had charisma. Americans concede that. Only Kenyans are unwilling to recognize a Kenyan who manages to cut through the tribal bull. It's like it's so unbelievable that it cannot be true or should not be recognized at all costs (another legacy of the Kenyatta and Moi eras). Yes, Mboya cut through the tribal crap. We do not need your concession. It's already in the hearts of millions of Kenyans, permanently beyond your cheap reach.
My point is Mboya's brilliance could not beat tribe. His "appeal" to Eastlands Gema was his alignment with Jomo. Not the brilliance on its own. What impresses me was his early achievements - he must have been 30 at independence - rolling with wazungu and MLK at 30 sio mchezo.
And semi-literate Moi outfoxed him into VP?
Mboya was no a Luo. He was a Suba. Abasuba are bantu tribe that Luo assimilated almost. Therefore it was easy for Jaramogi to go tribal on him. Mboya came from Rusinga island - many bantu fishing tribes remnants from Uganda bantu I bet.
Mboya father - Suba - mother Luo.
He was Mboya rejected by the Luo in Nyanza?
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To put Mboya and Ruto in the same sentence is beyond what I can tolerate. This ends my discussion on this. I'm about to puke!
When you're super-gifted like Mboya or Ruto - knowing you can outthink, out-talk, out-plan, out-run your opponent - it hard not to be want it all; coz you deserve.
What are you loser now celebrating - assassination? Everybody dies eventually!
What is important is that Mboya achieved in 39 yrs lot more than Jaramogi did in 85yrs.
Outside luo nyanza - Jaramogi has few admirers
Mboya had Ruto problem of rattling the status quo. Unlike say Moi or Kibaki. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
I agree Jaramogi did not amount to anything. But at least he got to see his grandkids.
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Being so gifted - you need to convert that to something by knowing when to lie low, kiss ass, etc. If getting yourself killed is smart maybe I went to the wrong school. After Pinto, Lumumba, MLK, etc - the lesson was obvious you need to temper high IQ with EQ in the political jungle. Semi-literate Moi got it, Kibaki got it. Not Mboya. Sorry I can't overlook the obvious blunder despite the accolades.
When you're super-gifted like Mboya or Ruto - knowing you can outthink, out-talk, out-plan, out-run your opponent - it hard not to be want it all; coz you deserve.
What are you loser now celebrating - assassination? Everybody dies eventually!
What is important is that Mboya achieved in 39 yrs lot more than Jaramogi did in 85yrs.
Outside luo nyanza - Jaramogi has few admirers
Mboya had Ruto problem of rattling the status quo. Unlike say Moi or Kibaki. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
I agree Jaramogi did not amount to anything. But at least he got to see his grandkids.
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:) Bye!
To put Mboya and Ruto in the same sentence is beyond what I can tolerate. This ends my discussion on this. I'm about to puke!
When you're super-gifted like Mboya or Ruto - knowing you can outthink, out-talk, out-plan, out-run your opponent - it hard not to be want it all; coz you deserve.
What are you loser now celebrating - assassination? Everybody dies eventually!
What is important is that Mboya achieved in 39 yrs lot more than Jaramogi did in 85yrs.
Outside luo nyanza - Jaramogi has few admirers
Mboya had Ruto problem of rattling the status quo. Unlike say Moi or Kibaki. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
I agree Jaramogi did not amount to anything. But at least he got to see his grandkids.
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That is crazy! You invest in SECURITY and INTELLIGENCE. Tom Mboya knew he had CIA but was a little bit trusting -- but anybody can be assisinated. Ruto invests in serious security. Otherwise, the day where you have to act like a fool to appease fools is long gone.
Being so gifted - you need to convert that to something by knowing when to lie low, kiss ass, etc. If getting yourself killed is smart maybe I went to the wrong school. After Pinto, Lumumba, MLK, etc - the lesson was obvious you need to temper high IQ with EQ in the political jungle. Semi-literate Moi got it, Kibaki got it. Not Mboya. Sorry I can't overlook the obvious blunder despite the accolades.
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The guy was strolling in the streets without bodyguards. CIA gani. He was very brilliant but naive Luo. God rest his soul.
That is crazy! You invest in SECURITY and INTELLIGENCE. Tom Mboya knew he had CIA but was a little bit trusting -- but anybody can be assisinated. Ruto invests in serious security. Otherwise, the day where you have to act like a fool to appease fools is long gone.
Being so gifted - you need to convert that to something by knowing when to lie low, kiss ass, etc. If getting yourself killed is smart maybe I went to the wrong school. After Pinto, Lumumba, MLK, etc - the lesson was obvious you need to temper high IQ with EQ in the political jungle. Semi-literate Moi got it, Kibaki got it. Not Mboya. Sorry I can't overlook the obvious blunder despite the accolades.
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CIA should have warned him about this - so he can increase security or go to exile. That is the INTELLIGENCE part. Then the security part is getting more bodyguards and all that. You can go Biwott way but that is tough to pull.
Good politician - in Kenya need money, intelligence, security, bla bla to become PORK - Ruto understands this very clearly - because of this serious job with serious enemies.
The guy was strolling in the streets without bodyguards. CIA gani. He was very brilliant but naive Luo. God rest his soul.
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I can only second. This is an abdomination.
To put Mboya and Ruto in the same sentence is beyond what I can tolerate. This ends my discussion on this. I'm about to puke!
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As if CIA knows everything on this earth. Even US ambassadors have been killed outside the US. Why did CIA not warn them?
May I remind you even the typical Kikuyu JM Kariuki was picked off the streets of Nairobi and assasinated. Kabila does not play a role in thuggish politics.
The guy was strolling in the streets without bodyguards. CIA gani. He was very brilliant but naive Luo. God rest his soul.
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Mboya's intelligence, charm, leadership, and oratory skills won him admiration from all over the world
I think Ruto has all that - in my view - and like I said - Locally Ruto matches Mboya - Mboya was international of course
The major difference of Ruto has stolen billions in the process...
Mboya international connections helped his politics...because kenya was donor dependant - Ruto money helps his politics because without money in kenya politics you're nobody.
So Ruto has used his intelligent mind to realize that kind of money one needs to win PORK.
I can only second. This is an abdomination.
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Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
There is a tendency to glorify famous people killed before/in their prime. Based on his politics, he seems to have been a bit like Tuju, preferring to canoodle the ruler of the day, rather than promoting any clear ideology. I'd say a cross between Tuju and Ouko.
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Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
There is a tendency to glorify famous people killed before/in their prime. Based on his politics, he seems to have been a bit like Tuju, preferring to canoodle the ruler of the day, rather than promoting any clear ideology. I'd say a cross between Tuju and Ouko.
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Mboya was going to be non one in post kenyatta govt. He died because he was naive to think kikuyis could be trusted to propel him to power. He was killed by Njenga. Njenga was my mum schoolmate. He was a criminal from birth
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To understand Mboy who you need to understand his political life before the fallout with Jaramogi in 66-69. This problem with most Raila cultist - driven by emotional Jaramogism that has confined Luos to periphery.
Mboya had been long instrumental in 1950s - But for Odingasm everything revolve around their god !
This article was written few days after his death
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,900985,00.html
Only 38, the handsome, articulate Mboya embodied many of the qualities so urgently needed by the fledgling nations of black Africa. He was a member of Kenya's second largest tribe, the Luo. But he saw his real loyalties to Kenya's detribalizing urban classes and made them his constituency. He was an early and fervent apostle for his country's freedom, inspired by Jomo Kenyatta. But he deplored the violence and bloodshed of the Mau Mau uprisings against the British and refused to participate in them. He became the architect of independent Kenya's major documents, including its constitution. He also pleaded eloquently for a Marshall Plan for all Africa, for the creation of an African economy, and "the brotherhood of the 'extended family' in a United States of Africa."
Mboya thought of himself as an African socialist, that catchall for moderate African reformers who favor mixed economies. Thoroughly pro-Western, with close ties both to the U.S. and Britain (he spent a year at Oxford), Mboya had no use for Soviet and Chinese efforts to gain a foothold in Kenya. It was on that issue that Mboya and his principal political enemy, Oginga Odinga, collided. Odinga, a Luo like Mboya, is an emotional, radical tribalist with Communist leanings and support. Mboya helped oust Odinga as Vice President in 1966.
There is a tendency to glorify famous people killed before/in their prime. Based on his politics, he seems to have been a bit like Tuju, preferring to canoodle the ruler of the day, rather than promoting any clear ideology. I'd say a cross between Tuju and Ouko.
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To understand Mboy who you need to understand his political life before the fallout with Jaramogi in 66-69. This problem with most Raila cultist - driven by emotional Jaramogism that has confined Luos to periphery.
Mboya had been long instrumental in 1950s - But for Odingasm everything revolve around their god !
This article was written few days after his death
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,900985,00.html
Only 38, the handsome, articulate Mboya embodied many of the qualities so urgently needed by the fledgling nations of black Africa. He was a member of Kenya's second largest tribe, the Luo. But he saw his real loyalties to Kenya's detribalizing urban classes and made them his constituency. He was an early and fervent apostle for his country's freedom, inspired by Jomo Kenyatta. But he deplored the violence and bloodshed of the Mau Mau uprisings against the British and refused to participate in them. He became the architect of independent Kenya's major documents, including its constitution. He also pleaded eloquently for a Marshall Plan for all Africa, for the creation of an African economy, and "the brotherhood of the 'extended family' in a United States of Africa."
Mboya thought of himself as an African socialist, that catchall for moderate African reformers who favor mixed economies. Thoroughly pro-Western, with close ties both to the U.S. and Britain (he spent a year at Oxford), Mboya had no use for Soviet and Chinese efforts to gain a foothold in Kenya. It was on that issue that Mboya and his principal political enemy, Oginga Odinga, collided. Odinga, a Luo like Mboya, is an emotional, radical tribalist with Communist leanings and support. Mboya helped oust Odinga as Vice President in 1966.
There is a tendency to glorify famous people killed before/in their prime. Based on his politics, he seems to have been a bit like Tuju, preferring to canoodle the ruler of the day, rather than promoting any clear ideology. I'd say a cross between Tuju and Ouko.
You are trying hard to outdo uthamaki in slandering Luos and Jaramogi recently, perhaps you think its a magic abracabdra phrase that will elevate your chieftain to power, I don't get it. Why are you making a fool of yourself trying to be a faux muthamakist bad mouthing Luos at every turn?. Shonde wewe. Who convince your illiterate Kipsigis soot black ass your are better than anyone? Stay in your lane. Your worthless in grand scheme of things.
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Mboya was a naive young man killed by Gema in power struggle. Naive he was to think Akina karume and ngoroko would idly sit by as he took power
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The Times in 1969 wrote that - Jaramogi was rabid, emotional, tribalist, just like you.
I recognise talent where it come from.
Including many Luos. For example I have no problem with Ouko become Justice CJ of Kenya.
I am the least tribal person you'll find.
I find the comparison btw Tuju and Mboya the most insulting. Tuju is windbag.
And I also think lowly of Jaramogi and Raila.
I think highly of Kibaki - even when he disappointed me in 2005 by betraying Raila and kenya dream for non-tribal kenya after NARC.
But I supported Kibaki long before.
As for Kipsigis - there is no day we will be below Luos :) HAKUNA SIKU. You guys are TOO POOR. We employ you to do menial jobs
Seriously speaking - Luos have been messed by Odigaism - to quote Times - RABID EMOTIONAL TRIBALIST like his son
You are trying hard to outdo uthamaki in slandering Luos and Jaramogi recently, perhaps you think its a magic abracabdra phrase that will elevate your chieftain to power, I don't get it. Why are you making a fool of yourself trying to be a faux muthamakist bad mouthing Luos at every turn?. Shonde wewe. Who convince your illiterate Kipsigis soot black ass your are better than anyone? Stay in your lane. Your worthless in grand scheme of things.
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The Times in 1969 wrote that - Jaramogi was rabid, emotional, tribalist, just like you.
I recognise talent where it come from.
Including many Luos. For example I have no problem with Ouko become Justice CJ of Kenya.
I am the least tribal person you'll find.
I find the comparison btw Tuju and Mboya the most insulting. Tuju is windbag.
And I also think lowly of Jaramogi and Raila.
I think highly of Kibaki - even when he disappointed me in 2005 by betraying Raila and kenya dream for non-tribal kenya after NARC.
But I supported Kibaki long before.
As for Kipsigis - there is no day we will be below Luos :) HAKUNA SIKU. You guys are TOO POOR. We employ you to do menial jobs
Seriously speaking - Luos have been messed by Odigaism - to quote Times - RABID EMOTIONAL TRIBALIST like his son
And that's a fairly normal reaction to comparing a famous figure who was killed at his prime, and had his reputation airbrushed with time, with a living one whose warts we all know about. Martin Luther King is also seen in a similar light, even by people who would readily dismiss him(maybe even support killing him) were they to meet him in person. I imagine if Raila died in the 90s, some of his worst detractors would be praising his memory.
Luos like every other Kenyan have been "messed up" by mtu-wetu syndrome. Not unique to Luos at all.
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NO. HISTORY is not written like that. It's not an eulogy that you read in funeral where everyone is all nice. Ouko was killed - but can he wash Mboya shoes HELL NO. Anybody who knew or have read what Mboya did in his early age - will not compare Mboya to Tuju or Ouko.
Tom Mboya was waaaay ahead of his time. Obviously he was a politician who had not time for rabid, stupid, ill-educated, emotional, communist Jaramogi.
kibaki intelligence did not go away...so why would mboya
And that's a fairly normal reaction to comparing a famous figure who was killed at his prime, and had his reputation airbrushed with time, with a living one whose warts we all know about. Martin Luther King is also seen in a similar light, even by people who would readily dismiss him(maybe even support killing him) were they to meet him in person. I imagine if Raila died in the 90s, some of his worst detractors would be praising his memory.
Luos like every other Kenyan have been "messed up" by mtu-wetu syndrome. Not unique to Luos at all.
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I can understand you since you only have lived to see half baked Kenyan politicians who do not see beyond their stomachs. Any other kind of politician to you comes form Mars.
Mboya was one politician who could call for a kamkuji and Kenyans of all walks of life go there to attend the meeting. He was never identified with Nyanza politics and most Luos only embraced him as one of their own after he was assasinated. That assasination almost brought Kenyatta's regime down as many Kikuyus too were disgusted by that killing.
Mind you, Mboya was born in Nyanza, grew up in Central Kenya and eneded up working in Nairobi.
Alone the fact he shaped Kenya's economy and managed to play a very central role in getting young Kenyans to US universities speaks for itself. Many of the government officials who ran the ministries after independence got their education through Mboya's efforts and I know many people's parents that were on that programm.
This air lifting of Kenyan students to US universities laid the foundation of the strong relations Kenyan students have in the US till today. Compare the number of Kenyans in the US to Tanzanians or Ugandans and you will see the difference. So saying Tom Mboya "amounted to nothing" shows your ignorance in history.
Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
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You history too is restricted to your Ololo neigherbhood where Mboya was MP - and therefore you imagine Mboya was popular all over kenya - becuase he was popular in Jeri :)
Mboya politically was not up there - with say Kenyatta or Jaramogi or even Moi.
What Mboya had was big brains, excellent oratory skills, and cunningness (political schemer). He was an Obama - very high IQ, good orator and quick thinker. Ruto is cut from the same cloth..although Ruto is better politician by far than Mboya.
I don't see how he would have won PORK without some jujistu movesNjonjo tried to pull in 1980s or like waiting for Kenyatta to die like Moi did.
All Mboya needed was to scheme using CIA/Internation networks to inherit the dying Kenyatta - and hence his assisination. Those days CIA were busy overthrowing Africa gov. All Mboya needed for a coup like happened one year or two after he died...where Ndolo and Jaramogi were involved. After the coup - US and Europe would endorse Mboya. That is why he had to die - he was too cunning - and after finishing up jaramogi - with his international network - he could easily turn on Kenyattas.
Kiambu mafai at the point remember did not control Army - the army was mainly Kambas as officers and Kalenjin as foot soldiers - civil services were mostly Luos (Luo were ahead of most tribes education wise) - Indians and even whites were still in many top jobs.
Kenya army first mutinied in 1966 - and then Kenyatta/Kiambu mafia created GSU to counter-balance the army - and in 1970s there was also a coup attempt that was quietly crashed - Jaramogi jailed under house arrest, Ndolo retired and my neighbour - who was china ambassador - also jailed under house arrest. The 1970s coup was backed by Russia/China.
I can understand you since you only have lived to see half baked Kenyan politicians who do not see beyond their stomachs. Any other kind of politician to you comes form Mars.
Mboya was one politician who could call for a kamkuji and Kenyans of all walks of life go there to attend the meeting. He was never identified with Nyanza politics and most Luos only embraced him as one of their own after he was assasinated. That assasination almost brought Kenyatta's regime down as many Kikuyus too were disgusted by that killing.
Mind you, Mboya was born in Nyanza, grew up in Central Kenya and eneded up working in Nairobi.
Alone the fact he shaped Kenya's economy and managed to play a very central role in getting young Kenyans to US universities speaks for itself. Many of the government officials who ran the ministries after independence got their education through Mboya's efforts and I know many people's parents that were on that programm.
This air lifting of Kenyan students to US universities laid the foundation of the strong relations Kenyan students have in the US till today. Compare the number of Kenyans in the US to Tanzanians or Ugandans and you will see the difference. So saying Tom Mboya "amounted to nothing" shows your ignorance in history.
Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
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I think you have misunderstood me.
I cannot remember mentioning anywhere here that Mboya would have become president of Kenya. Of course like any other politician he would have loved to become president. My comments were only based on the fact that, Arcadian_Dreamer reduced Mboya to a normal Kenyan politician who in the end had nothing to offer Kenyans.
Since I assume am older than you, I can tell you what you mentioned about Kenya's social and political structure in the 60's and early 70's is very accurate.
I know you like to associate me with Ololo, but I never lived there. Am a product of Jerusalem the home of Jaramogi, Mwai Kibaki and many other Kenyans who went on to become prominent. Mboya was MP for Kamukunji which included Ololo in those days.
You history too is restricted to your Ololo neigherbhood where Mboya was MP - and therefore you imagine Mboya was popular all over kenya - becuase he was popular in Jeri :)
Mboya politically was not up there - with say Kenyatta or Jaramogi or even Moi.
What Mboya had was big brains, excellent oratory skills, and cunningness (political schemer). He was an Obama - very high IQ, good orator and quick thinker. Ruto is cut from the same cloth..although Ruto is better politician by far than Mboya.
I don't see how he would have won PORK without some jujistu movesNjonjo tried to pull in 1980s or like waiting for Kenyatta to die like Moi did.
All Mboya needed was to scheme using CIA/Internation networks to inherit the dying Kenyatta - and hence his assisination. Those days CIA were busy overthrowing Africa gov. All Mboya needed for a coup like happened one year or two after he died...where Ndolo and Jaramogi were involved. After the coup - US and Europe would endorse Mboya. That is why he had to die - he was too cunning - and after finishing up jaramogi - with his international network - he could easily turn on Kenyattas.
Kiambu mafai at the point remember did not control Army - the army was mainly Kambas as officers and Kalenjin as foot soldiers - civil services were mostly Luos (Luo were ahead of most tribes education wise) - Indians and even whites were still in many top jobs.
Kenya army first mutinied in 1966 - and then Kenyatta/Kiambu mafia created GSU to counter-balance the army - and in 1970s there was also a coup attempt that was quietly crashed - Jaramogi jailed under house arrest, Ndolo retired and my neighbour - who was china ambassador - also jailed under house arrest. The 1970s coup was backed by Russia/China.
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Death saved his legacy, he would not have amounted to anything.
There is a tendency to glorify famous people killed before/in their prime. Based on his politics, he seems to have been a bit like Tuju, preferring to canoodle the ruler of the day, rather than promoting any clear ideology. I'd say a cross between Tuju and Ouko.
Yeah. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
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The odinga cult followers will not like Mboya because he finished their man. Mboya of course did evil things - like killing the Lancaster constitution - but I believe he was killed because Mt kenya feared - he was going to overthrow their gov with help of CIA. He had been their chief schemer against Odinga/USSR.
It certainly appears Mboya might have started working on a coup against Kenyatta - with help of Kamba Army officers - who were uncomfortable with Kikuyizaition of Kenya civil services and the army.
Once Mboya died and CIA connections died - I think they hitched the idea to Jaramogi who had USSR/China connection - but that coup attempt was similarly quashed - and architect quietly placed under house arrests - until Moi came and forgave some of them like Jaramogi in attempt to counter-man the Kiambu mafia.
Definitely Tom Mboya would have become Kenya President through a coup - not a popular election.
https://diasporamessenger.com/2019/04/tom-mboyas-ally-plotted/
I think you have misunderstood me.
I cannot remember mentioning anywhere here that Mboya would have become president of Kenya. Of course like any other politician he would have loved to become president. My comments were only based on the fact that, Arcadian_Dreamer reduced Mboya to a normal Kenyan politician who in the end had nothing to offer Kenyans.
Since I assume am older than you, I can tell you what you mentioned about Kenya's social and political structure in the 60's and early 70's is very accurate.
I know you like to associate me with Ololo, but I never lived there. Am a product of Jerusalem the home of Jaramogi, Mwai Kibaki and many other Kenyans who went on to become prominent. Mboya was MP for Kamukunji which included Ololo in those days.