Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: gout on June 11, 2021, 12:13:39 PM
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The hardest is how to disband the NMS. Those cheering these tantrum based presidential directive and orders do not understand the long term ham we are set on.
How can a county be replaced by an amorphous body under the president just because of petty beefs with duly elected governor?
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NMS is an illegal entity and by the law Sonko is still the governor of Nairobi. I cannot stand Sonko and have no respect for him as a leader, but as they say "the law is an ass".
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This is why the law and its respect and enforcement important for humans to coexist unlike in the jungle. We got to express our stands through votes, constitution, court orders, opinions. Not when ufool cannot stand you he impeaches you as a governor or kills you.
It stops petty people from removing you from the payroll or a chancellor removing a Doctorate candidate from the graduation list over petty beef :D :D :D unlike the illiterate bimbo at UoN Rattansi ufool can remove your name from gazette notice - it will be crazy when everyone picks the pettiness over people; animals or things they cannot stand.
NMS is an illegal entity and by the law Sonko is still the governor of Nairobi. I cannot stand Sonko and have no respect for him as a leader, but as they say "the law is an ass".
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I thought he was illegally impeached. How did it go? Did he get a court injunction?
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That's the irony. The man was illegally removed from office and that's alright for Kenyattaists and ODM groupies. But if it were opposite you'd hear crap.
From the assembly to senate. Everything was illegal. He's a sin of a bitch alright but society is judged by how fair it treats sons of bitches and other stinkers not how it treats cultivated Pundit or over educated omollo. Sad really
I thought he was illegally impeached. How did it go? Did he get a court injunction?
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The law for the law's sake is asinine. The law is only important if it facilitates the goals of the government-to improve the welfare of the people. MMS may be "illegal" but it is doing what a "legal" governor could not do. If the law is not working for the people then it loses relevance and the people do not care. If the court returns Sonko, the people will reject the court too.
This is why the law and its respect and enforcement important for humans to coexist unlike in the jungle. We got to express our stands through votes, constitution, court orders, opinions. Not when ufool cannot stand you he impeaches you as a governor or kills you.
It stops petty people from removing you from the payroll or a chancellor removing a Doctorate candidate from the graduation list over petty beef :D :D :D unlike the illiterate bimbo at UoN Rattansi ufool can remove your name from gazette notice - it will be crazy when everyone picks the pettiness over people; animals or things they cannot stand.
NMS is an illegal entity and by the law Sonko is still the governor of Nairobi. I cannot stand Sonko and have no respect for him as a leader, but as they say "the law is an ass".
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Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
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If MMS is working and its "illegal" then lets make it legal. The reason why we are stuck is because of borrowed laws that do not work for us. Let us create our own laws based on what works for us. Africans go to school and cram these useless laws, then they recite them like robots and insists they have to be adhered to when they do not work. We look and sound like clowns. The ruling on BBI was atrocious. There was substantial compliance with the requirements other than the fact that Ouru was the president. He had a partner who was not president and that should have been considered. The signatures were collected and the county legislatures passed the damn thing. The court then writes a book lecturing Kenyans about the history of the constitution to hoodwink the people that this was a weighty issue. The court could have found substantial compliance and dismissed the petition.
Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
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I'm not even sure I said any such thing.
1. Sonko impeachment was riddled with legal errors. In the past courts have rewarded the violation & defiance of court orders not with flowers but a declaration of the impeachment as null & void. Refer to the wambora case. There's some rat hidden somewhere in respect of Sonko. I need not detail the errors but can state that the impeachment Manager LIED to the senate and was caught. The principle of falsum uno falsum in omnibus should have applied. Everything he said or wrote should have been discarded immediately
2. The NMS is unconstitutional period. There's no replacement as there's an elected county government. Where the governor or deputy are missing the speaker is governor. It should be supported not sabotaged. If Sonko were reinstated ofcourse he should continue making the mistakes the people of Nairobi knew he'd make. They are stuck with him just like we are stuck with Uhuru Kenyatta for another odd 11 months.
I've not advocated for him to be reinstated so he saves Nairobi etc. All those are Uhuru Kenyatta's games. He probably has achieved what he wanted and yes you guessed: land. He needed to destabilize and in the tumult steal land.
Which is why he should carefully read the court of appeal judgment against Moi and Bawazir. If Joho won't claim compensation you can on behalf of Mombasa people. There's no escape even if Gideon wears all red - pants and shirt.
Iwinjo?
Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
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What is wrong with Waitutu returning? Kiambu people elected him. He was doing a better job than Nyoro :) - he was focussed on Kiambu main problem - alcoholism and drug abuse - this is what he promised people - and he was seriously addressing it - Kiambu families are aware it main problem affecting their youths - drug abuse- and they didn't care about roads or maendeleo that kabogo was talking about.
Don't think you're better than people who elect UhuRuto, Waitutus, Sonkos or Trump. You're not. Democracy is ALWAYS SMART. The people know why they pick Sonko over Kidero. Trump over Killery.
Bottomline - never question democratic output - question the process. Otherwise you're NOT a democrat. You believe you're better than other humans. I believe all humans are EQUAL.
Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://
www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
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What is wrong with Waitutu returning? Kiambu people elected him. He was doing a better job than Nyoro :) - he was focussed on Kiambu main problem - alcoholism and drug abuse - this is what he promised people - and he was seriously addressing it - Kiambu families are aware it main problem affecting their youths - drug abuse- and they didn't care about roads or maendeleo that kabogo was talking about.
Don't think you're better than people who elect UhuRuto, Waitutus, Sonkos or Trump. You're not. Democracy is ALWAYS SMART. The people know why they pick Sonko over Kidero. Trump over Killery.
Bottomline - never question democratic output - question the process. Otherwise you're NOT a democrat. You believe you're better than other humans. I believe all humans are EQUAL.
Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://
www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
The reason I mentioned Waititu is because of the claim that NMS being declared illegal somehow clears the way for Sonko to return. NMS can be as illegal and as dirty as sin but that does not cleanse Sonko. Kiambu had no NMS but that cannot make Waititu return.
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By the time this snakes through to SCORK Uhuru will be long retired.. even Ann Kananu will not get to lead a redeemed county before the next elections. But this is a good ruling to stop future presidents from messing with devolution. Only thing counties need is more cash - 35%
CoK2010 contemplated PORK can dissolve a dysfunctional county government so this is probably a matter of passing a substantive law.
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What is wrong with Waitutu returning? Kiambu people elected him. He was doing a better job than Nyoro :) - he was focussed on Kiambu main problem - alcoholism and drug abuse - this is what he promised people - and he was seriously addressing it - Kiambu families are aware it main problem affecting their youths - drug abuse- and they didn't care about roads or maendeleo that kabogo was talking about.
Don't think you're better than people who elect UhuRuto, Waitutus, Sonkos or Trump. You're not. Democracy is ALWAYS SMART. The people know why they pick Sonko over Kidero. Trump over Killery.
Bottomline - never question democratic output - question the process. Otherwise you're NOT a democrat. You believe you're better than other humans. I believe all humans are EQUAL.
Omollo, in many ways, I do not see how the illegality of NMS can be confused with the removal of Sonko. His was a corruption case and was tried in court. Whether there was Executive interference is another matter (and Maraga was Judiciary boss then, so go figure). If Sonko returns merely because NMS has been declared unconstitutional then Waititu must also return and that Samburu fellow, where there is no NMS. We can agree that NMS is illegal without confusing it with Sonko's corruption case. One time his advocates claimed he was unfit to stand trial, but now he is fit to return as governor? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
https://
www.standardmedia.co.ke/kenya/article/2001406435/court-orders-mike-sonko-to-show-up-for-corruption-case-tomorrow
The reason I mentioned Waititu is because of the claim that NMS being declared illegal somehow clears the way for Sonko to return. NMS can be as illegal and as dirty as sin but that does not cleanse Sonko. Kiambu had no NMS but that cannot make Waititu return.
Unlike Trump, whether Waititu or Sonko can run again remains to be determined by the courts. Waititu had already thrown his hat into the Nairobi ring recently, to test the legal waters.
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I like this new respect for the judiciary, the same judiciary that is as corrupt as the country itself. Uhuru is well aware of how corrupt they are, he gets all the intelligence reports. It’s simple what Uhuru’s formula is, using the judiciary’s corruption against itself, he appeals every of their decisions, cases drag in court while the judges are too busy taking cases where they can eat. In the meantime, Uhuru continues running the government, it’s actually not defiance, its delay. All the corrupt idiots in Kenya know this, the Sonkos, Waititus, Rutos, Kideros, they know their cases will lag in court while they enjoy the fruits of wanjikus looted billions.
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Uhuru is the most corrupt. The more power the more corruption. Ask Wanjigi. Uhuru stoles his 50B kshs - 10% for SGR.You started well - all kenyans are corrupt- the more opportunity like PORK - the more corruption.The rest of what your write don't make any sense. Typical average lawyer knows how to hide their corruption in client-confidential bla bla - and judges are even way smarter than that. Uhuru has almost zero intelligence of any judge. JSC has asked for evidence the last two years - he has none. His list keep changing with his tantrums. Judges of course are corrupt - this is Kenya - but I doubt youll ever get them that easily - the money probably end up in strings of lawyers. This is what is frustrating Uhuru.
I like this new respect for the judiciary, the same judiciary that is as corrupt as the country itself. Uhuru is well aware of how corrupt they are, he gets all the intelligence reports. It’s simple what Uhuru’s formula is, using the judiciary’s corruption against itself, he appeals every of their decisions, cases drag in court while the judges are too busy taking cases where they can eat. In the meantime, Uhuru continues running the government, it’s actually not defiance, its delay. All the corrupt idiots in Kenya know this, the Sonkos, Waititus, Rutos, Kideros, they know their cases will lag in court while they enjoy the fruits of wanjikus looted billions.
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Most of the cases are fully settled and are waiting no further action. Miguna cases are all done. All appeals lost or rejected.
The 41 judges case came for appeal. The AG hasn't prosecuted it. Lawyers waiting for a few weeks past precedent to demand it be thrown out further appeals denied. Plus Uhuru has changed the list of the corrupt among the 41 swore in the entire original list and created a new list out of the bench that heard the BBI case. That's a self inflicted blow.
It's not about Uhuru ruling by fiat. It's that he is breaking the law. The law waits patiently. He will pay for it very heavily
My personal view is much as I want these bastards in prison, the most effective historically is to bankrupt them so they tiptoe if going to buy groceries fearing a debt collector might snatch their cash. Racist organizations in the US and lately the NRA lost their power by being sued and bankrupted. The KKK can only operate clandestinely. It's leaders faced personal bankruptcy and suffered poverty before some died leaving nothing behind.
So he can continue having KMC under the military and NMS running Nairobi illegally. All that money will be claimed from him. All Miguna will do is demand Uhuru and Matiangi pay him. The state will not pay beyond a certain amount linked to its culpability. That's until there were binding orders. Once those final orders came into being Uhuru and Matiangi liability started.
I like this new respect for the judiciary, the same judiciary that is as corrupt as the country itself. Uhuru is well aware of how corrupt they are, he gets all the intelligence reports. It’s simple what Uhuru’s formula is, using the judiciary’s corruption against itself, he appeals every of their decisions, cases drag in court while the judges are too busy taking cases where they can eat. In the meantime, Uhuru continues running the government, it’s actually not defiance, its delay. All the corrupt idiots in Kenya know this, the Sonkos, Waititus, Rutos, Kideros, they know their cases will lag in court while they enjoy the fruits of wanjikus looted billions.
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The blatant corruption of the Moi Jomo era iliisha. For a judge to twist a case drawing opprobrium is rare these days. Maybe the case of Ole Kantai and Wairimu.
They insist on the case being straightforward or giving them the opportunity. Thus they'll send a client to fix the prosecutor (ODPP has some of the thickest and most corrupt lawyers in the universe). The prosecutor fucks up his own case.
Then the police. Again DCI has corruption and alcoholism. Samples are lost, evidence mishandled, money recovered pilfered, drugs replaced with wheat flour. The government chemist staff get a bullet, blood or fingerprints and sit at the gate waiting for the owner or his advocate or other agent. In serious cases the police camp there to only leave once the results are in. But evidence has to be introduced. The scientist leading the introduction may for a few shillings wilfully blunder. He knows exactly what to say to fuck up the case.
Frankly if you get convicted of a crime in Kenya its because you are stupid, foolish or poor.
Uhuru is the most corrupt. The more power the more corruption. Ask Wanjigi. Uhuru stoles his 50B kshs - 10% for SGR.You started well - all kenyans are corrupt- the more opportunity like PORK - the more corruption.The rest of what your write don't make any sense. Typical average lawyer knows how to hide their corruption in client-confidential bla bla - and judges are even way smarter than that. Uhuru has almost zero intelligence of any judge. JSC has asked for evidence the last two years - he has none. His list keep changing with his tantrums. Judges of course are corrupt - this is Kenya - but I doubt youll ever get them that easily - the money probably end up in strings of lawyers. This is what is frustrating Uhuru.
I like this new respect for the judiciary, the same judiciary that is as corrupt as the country itself. Uhuru is well aware of how corrupt they are, he gets all the intelligence reports. It’s simple what Uhuru’s formula is, using the judiciary’s corruption against itself, he appeals every of their decisions, cases drag in court while the judges are too busy taking cases where they can eat. In the meantime, Uhuru continues running the government, it’s actually not defiance, its delay. All the corrupt idiots in Kenya know this, the Sonkos, Waititus, Rutos, Kideros, they know their cases will lag in court while they enjoy the fruits of wanjikus looted billions.
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Criminal cases - Poor. Nearly 99 percent of prisoners come from poor families. The few rich who get nabbed are the foolish ones - who either leave evidence all over or cannot corrupt the same evidence or buy the prosecutor or judge or magistrate. Or commited crimes against another rich man - so it becomes a bidding war.
Now big money are in civil cases...contract or commercial cases...or political case like petitions or stop xyz.
The blatant corruption of the Moi Jomo era iliisha. For a judge to twist a case drawing opprobrium is rare these days. Maybe the case of Ole Kantai and Wairimu.
They insist on the case being straightforward or giving them the opportunity. Thus they'll send a client to fix the prosecutor (ODPP has some of the thickest and most corrupt lawyers in the universe). The prosecutor fucks up his own case.
Then the police. Again DCI has corruption and alcoholism. Samples are lost, evidence mishandled, money recovered pilfered, drugs replaced with wheat flour. The government chemist staff get a bullet, blood or fingerprints and sit at the gate waiting for the owner or his advocate or other agent. In serious cases the police camp there to only leave once the results are in. But evidence has to be introduced. The scientist leading the introduction may for a few shillings wilfully blunder. He knows exactly what to say to fuck up the case.
Frankly if you get convicted of a crime in Kenya its because you are stupid, foolish or poor.
Uhuru is the most corrupt. The more power the more corruption. Ask Wanjigi. Uhuru stoles his 50B kshs - 10% for SGR.You started well - all kenyans are corrupt- the more opportunity like PORK - the more corruption.The rest of what your write don't make any sense. Typical average lawyer knows how to hide their corruption in client-confidential bla bla - and judges are even way smarter than that. Uhuru has almost zero intelligence of any judge. JSC has asked for evidence the last two years - he has none. His list keep changing with his tantrums. Judges of course are corrupt - this is Kenya - but I doubt youll ever get them that easily - the money probably end up in strings of lawyers. This is what is frustrating Uhuru.
I like this new respect for the judiciary, the same judiciary that is as corrupt as the country itself. Uhuru is well aware of how corrupt they are, he gets all the intelligence reports. It’s simple what Uhuru’s formula is, using the judiciary’s corruption against itself, he appeals every of their decisions, cases drag in court while the judges are too busy taking cases where they can eat. In the meantime, Uhuru continues running the government, it’s actually not defiance, its delay. All the corrupt idiots in Kenya know this, the Sonkos, Waititus, Rutos, Kideros, they know their cases will lag in court while they enjoy the fruits of wanjikus looted billions.
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That the country is corrupt is something we all agree, it’s funny some of us seem to know the exact amount Uhuru has stolen, if we decided to follow the constitution to the tee, our whole system would have to be reconstituted because chapter six alone would eliminate most of our leadership in the executive, judiciary and legislature. I am not for anyone defying the constitution but why chose and pick? If for example it’s proven that Ruto stole weston land, should that eliminate him from presidential contest? I am against all corruption, defiance of the law and chaos, I also support individuals fighting the system and trying to change things and this is why I am a great admirer of people like Raila, Orengo, Matiba, Ngugi, Omatata etc who takes huge risks trying to change our failed system. It is also very hard to find angels in our system to cast the first stone so it’s mind boggling to see people here that I have known for yrs all over sudden to constitutionalists, law and order advocates. I am not buying it.
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Criminal cases - Poor. Nearly 99 percent of prisoners come from poor families. The few rich who get nabbed are the foolish ones - who either leave evidence all over or cannot corrupt the same evidence or buy the prosecutor or judge or magistrate. Or commited crimes against another rich man - so it becomes a bidding war.
Now big money are in civil cases...contract or commercial cases...or political case like petitions or stop xyz.
Commercial court as it was called was the most sought after bench. Clear cut fees. You pay get your judgment and mambo kwisha. A businessman with a case in eldoret finds the court hostile. So he bribes to transfer it to Nairobi. It ends up at commercial court. Quick judgment usually written by his own advocate for the judge's signature
I tell you I could have taken your houses in the 90s and gotten away with it. I just hated the entire crap of a system. But I understood it very well.
The blatant corruption of the Moi Jomo era iliisha. For a judge to twist a case drawing opprobrium is rare these days. Maybe the case of Ole Kantai and Wairimu.
They insist on the case being straightforward or giving them the opportunity. Thus they'll send a client to fix the prosecutor (ODPP has some of the thickest and most corrupt lawyers in the universe). The prosecutor fucks up his own case.
Then the police. Again DCI has corruption and alcoholism. Samples are lost, evidence mishandled, money recovered pilfered, drugs replaced with wheat flour. The government chemist staff get a bullet, blood or fingerprints and sit at the gate waiting for the owner or his advocate or other agent. In serious cases the police camp there to only leave once the results are in. But evidence has to be introduced. The scientist leading the introduction may for a few shillings wilfully blunder. He knows exactly what to say to fuck up the case.
Fr
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uhuru is corrupt.uhuru mother the mother of corruption. his father the grandmaster of corruption. deal with it. the kenyatta family of very corrupt evil individuals. at least Mois wife Lena refused to be evil. At least Ruto parents were not corrupt.the wife seem to prefer simple life.
Kenyattas are richest - which in kenya - automatically translate to the most corrupt
Because they didnt invent Iphone or anything.
They have stolen in grand scale - anything that could be stolen including wild game.
His son stole SGR - kickbacks - that were to go to Wanjigi
Beyond that he uses gov policies -to further their interest.
Like KRA waving taxes for merge of very corrupt ndegwas and uhuru bank mergers.
Only non corrupt individual maybe Margaret Kaguo-Kenyatta in the family of evil Mama Ngina.
Their nieces and nephews are stealing covid funds.
They cannot get enough - they have to steal corona funds. That evil act infact made them lose corruption propaganda war against Ruto (who is also very corrupt).Uhuru and Murathe lost that propaganda war - and it like this judge one - lost - pple can see the tantrums from BBI - not corrupt judiciary
Even when Jomo Kamau stole everything including the country name.
The sister is all over stealing hospital funds - charging billions for containers nobody wants.
The other sister -Sonko can and will write a whole book about her corruption at city hall
how do you know how much is stolen...standard kickback fee is 5-10% for almost any gov project- including in ass chief offices - so just know who took which contract - meaning who was awarding it - and know he got 10 percent in some Cayman island - that will be cleaned over time.
if you squeeze more than 10..the contractor cannot deliver...and you get into problems like moi era...so sustainable corruption like in kenya has to max out 10 percent.
That the country is corrupt is something we all agree, it’s funny some of us seem to know the exact amount Uhuru has stolen, if we decided to follow the constitution to the tee, our whole system would have to be reconstituted because chapter six alone would eliminate most of our leadership in the executive, judiciary and legislature. I am not for anyone defying the constitution but why chose and pick? If for example it’s proven that Ruto stole weston land, should that eliminate him from presidential contest? I am against all corruption, defiance of the law and chaos, I also support individuals fighting the system and trying to change things and this is why I am a great admirer of people like Raila, Orengo, Matiba, Ngugi, Omatata etc who takes huge risks trying to change our failed system. It is also very hard to find angels in our system to cast the first stone so it’s mind boggling to see people here that I have known for yrs all over sudden to constitutionalists, law and order advocates. I am not buying it.
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D-Day, Korir obvious beef. Chitembwe missed out on Chief Justice. Okwany has ruled in defence of 'spirit of devolution' not once.
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Sonko should resume work; The army guys are total waste of time; the garbage in Nairobi city center is embarrasing.
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Sonko buried. Don't see how he will recover political. Kananu to continue as governor.
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Sonko gone forever. The thief won't be reinstated by judges
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Link?
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Such a loss. After losing Kalembe, another hustler maverick is buried for now.
As an alley cat he is keeping his social media presence alive, enviable never say die spirit to his ghetto alleys orphans.
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https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/national/article/2001416601/court-seals-sonkos-hopes-of-resuming-duty
His fate is sealed.
Link?
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Thank God the idiot is out. I even stopped following him on Twitter, the idiocy he posts is from someone with porridge for brain.
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Absurd for judges to claim how MCAs and senate is free from presidential capture. Even when the president is on the judges' necks.
We do not agree with his claims that there was external hand of the president in his ouster, which met the constitutional threshold required to impeach a governor,” ruled the judges.
Also evidence of biased upperdeck Kenyans in quest for 'clean, posh, wangwana leaders'. Bure kabisa- saitan!