Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: vooke on March 11, 2018, 09:00:27 PM
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?FORT WORTH — Charmaine Pruitt wrote the names of 12 churches on a sheet of paper, tore the paper into 12 strips, and dropped them into a Ziploc bag. It was Sunday morning and time to pick which church to attend.
This time of the week two years earlier, there would have been no question. Ms. Pruitt, 46, would have been getting ready for her regular Saturday afternoon worship service, at a former grocery store overhauled into a state-of-the-art, 760-seat sanctuary. In the darkened hall, where it would have been hard to tell she was one of the few black people in the room, she would have listened to the soaring anthems of the praise bands. She would have watched, on three giant screens, a sermon that over the course of a weekend would reach one of the largest congregations in the country.
But Ms. Pruitt has not been to that church since the fall of 2016. That was when she concluded that it was not, ultimately, meant for people like her. She has not been to any church regularly since.
Ms. Pruitt pulled one of the slips out of the Ziploc bag. Mount Olive Fort Worth. O.K. That was where she would go that day.
In the last couple of decades, there had been signs, however modest, that eleven o’clock on Sunday morning might cease to be the most segregated hour in America. “Racial reconciliation” was the talk of conferences and the subject of formal resolutions. Large Christian ministries were dedicated to the aim of integration, and many black Christians decided to join white-majority congregations. Some went as missionaries, called by God to integrate. Others were simply drawn to a different worship style — short, conveniently timed services that emphasized a personal connection to God......
https://nyti.ms/2De9fnP?
There’s a forum, a Christian forum I used to participate in a few years ago and when one of them negroes was slain( not sure of it was the boy effed by Zimmerman) I tried to introduce this subject. The shocking indifference by the senior white men admins shocked me. You have Theology PhDs and ministers with decades of ministry to boot who are so much at ease with atheism,creationism,Calvinism and all its nuances suddenly tense at the very mention of the R word.
I read this article and it all came back to me. I think racism is more uncomfortable a subject for white churches than even homosexuality
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It’s not just church. American history, politics and domestic policies make no sense if you assume that race plays no role.
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When most evangelicals praise Trump, its time to rethink,
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It’s not just church. American history, politics and domestic policies make no sense if you assume that race plays no role.
I can guess that. Why I took on church is because of its parallels to Kenyan experience.
If there’s something I have noticed about Okoyu since 2003 is that they are very keen to pray for leadership as the Bible instructs us to...they take praying for leaders very close to their hearts,and are increasingly convinced that God chose the Okoyu leaders (Ubako & Ouru). They see God’s had everywhere from August to the boycott to even the handshake. Everything that entrenches Ouru has some spiritual and scriptural answer.
Okoyu clergy takes opposition role to be satanic inspired. They think Lucifer uses Babu to sow discord.
If you recall, they were largely silent during the post-election state sponsored violence. It took a Luo ACK bishop to speak against the killings.
Kenya is no America and the authentic negro is very primal in his thinking so these divisions are not as deep as in the US but still, I can’t stop drawing parallels.
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It’s not just church. American history, politics and domestic policies make no sense if you assume that race plays no role.
I can guess that. Why I took on church is because of its parallels to Kenyan experience.
If there’s something I have noticed about Okoyu since 2003 is that they are very keen to pray for leadership as the Bible instructs us to...they take praying for leaders very close to their hearts,and are increasingly convinced that God chose the Okoyu leaders (Ubako & Ouru). They see God’s had everywhere from August to the boycott to even the handshake. Everything that entrenches Ouru has some spiritual and scriptural answer.
Okoyu clergy takes opposition role to be satanic inspired. They think Lucifer uses Babu to sow discord.
If you recall, they were largely silent during the post-election state sponsored violence. It took a Luo ACK bishop to speak against the killings.
Kenya is no America and the authentic negro is very primal in his thinking so these divisions are not as deep as in the US but still, I can’t stop drawing parallels.
:lolz:
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It’s not just church. American history, politics and domestic policies make no sense if you assume that race plays no role.
I can guess that. Why I took on church is because of its parallels to Kenyan experience.
If there’s something I have noticed about Okoyu since 2003 is that they are very keen to pray for leadership as the Bible instructs us to...they take praying for leaders very close to their hearts,and are increasingly convinced that God chose the Okoyu leaders (Ubako & Ouru). They see God’s had everywhere from August to the boycott to even the handshake. Everything that entrenches Ouru has some spiritual and scriptural answer.
Okoyu clergy takes opposition role to be satanic inspired. They think Lucifer uses Babu to sow discord.
If you recall, they were largely silent during the post-election state sponsored violence. It took a Luo ACK bishop to speak against the killings.
Kenya is no America and the authentic negro is very primal in his thinking so these divisions are not as deep as in the US but still, I can’t stop drawing parallels.
:lolz:
When you mix church and politics, Church will definitely be the loser!!!
You cant have it both ways.
Republicans have mixed church and politics and now most pews are empty.
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There’s a forum, a Christian forum I used to participate in a few years ago and when one of them negroes was slain( not sure of it was the boy effed by Zimmerman) I tried to introduce this subject. The shocking indifference by the senior white men admins shocked me. You have Theology PhDs and ministers with decades of ministry to boot who are so much at ease with atheism,creationism,Calvinism and all its nuances suddenly tense at the very mention of the R word.
I read this article and it all came back to me. I think racism is more uncomfortable a subject for white churches than even homosexuality
OMG, vooke this post sharply resonated. I was on a Catholic forum too and saw two things that just simply shocked me to where I questioned those guys on how genuine their religious beliefs were.
One was the shootings of blacks in the US like you. I was so shocked. The knee-jerk rush to defend the police whenever these stories were posted, even in cases where the dead guy posed no threat utterly chilled my blood. I used to think if I was in the States I would never vote Democrat because they are so aggressively anti-Christian but after that I realized if I lived there I could never support conservatives either because guess what? I am a negro dammit. These guys really didn't seem to think it a big deal for a cop to pump bullets into an unarmed black man just coz he had been stealing or even just been suspected of doing something. It's one thing if they;re secular but to see that from Christians is very disheartening. I started thinking, Gosh, black lives really don't matter the same way to them, do they?
The other thing was the cold reaction to the issue of dreamers that I saw. The lack of compassion from proclaimed Christians for people who were brought into the country as children and had known no other home than the U.S...I couldn't reconcile that attitude with someone who claims they follow Jesus. I once asked one point blank, if Jesus was standing in your room right now as you debate this issue, could you say the same thing to him? Could you tell Jesus, "It's the law! They were brought in illegally, they must go!" Or "They've already gotten advantages in education here, so let them go to Mexico and apply it there". Mind you these are 17/18 year-olds sometimes or even often. They never answered. They basically say "it's the law" but I was asking them as Christians why they support a law or oppose the changing of it, that is so cruel. Even Trump the heathen knew that to deport dreamers was inhuman but these believers were really OK with it even contrary to the stances of their churches, they were celebrating Trump's "deportation machine" under works right after the election. So sad.
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Kadame,
I’m glad you see my point. There’s something disheartening about their indifference. Btw, Clinton scored marginally better among Catholics than Protestants for the simple fact that Trump annoyed Hispanics who form about 1/3 of all US Catholics. So this thing cuts across all strands of white Christianity.
Here’s a Dec last year article on the same theme I tried to share on the same forum and it received zero response.
?http://wapo.st/2oGzG3t?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.89f1ef2da0ac?
Maybe we overate Christianity as a behavior modifier
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Kadame,
I’m glad you see my point. There’s something disheartening about their indifference. Btw, Clinton scored marginally better among Catholics than Protestants for the simple fact that Trump annoyed Hispanics who form about 1/3 of all US Catholics. So this thing cuts across all strands of white Christianity.
Here’s a Dec last year article on the same theme I tried to share on the same forum and it received zero response.
?http://wapo.st/2oGzG3t?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.89f1ef2da0ac?
Maybe we overate Christianity as a behavior modifier
More like we underate the environment in which it is used and the purposes it serves.
It may sound cliche, but Christianity has been a constant companion of the white supremacist be it in the US, South Africa and likely many ugly colonial enterprises.
To anyone with good familiarity of the US, the mental image they have when they hear the term evangelical, is of a self righteous hypocritical bigot, and ocassionally a follower of Jesus.
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There’s a forum, a Christian forum I used to participate in a few years ago and when one of them negroes was slain( not sure of it was the boy effed by Zimmerman) I tried to introduce this subject. The shocking indifference by the senior white men admins shocked me. You have Theology PhDs and ministers with decades of ministry to boot who are so much at ease with atheism,creationism,Calvinism and all its nuances suddenly tense at the very mention of the R word.
I read this article and it all came back to me. I think racism is more uncomfortable a subject for white churches than even homosexuality
OMG, vooke this post sharply resonated. I was on a Catholic forum too and saw two things that just simply shocked me to where I questioned those guys on how genuine their religious beliefs were.
One was the shootings of blacks in the US like you. I was so shocked. The knee-jerk rush to defend the police whenever these stories were posted, even in cases where the dead guy posed no threat utterly chilled my blood. I used to think if I was in the States I would never vote Democrat because they are so aggressively anti-Christian but after that I realized if I lived there I could never support conservatives either because guess what? I am a negro dammit. These guys really didn't seem to think it a big deal for a cop to pump bullets into an unarmed black man just coz he had been stealing or even just been suspected of doing something. It's one thing if they;re secular but to see that from Christians is very disheartening. I started thinking, Gosh, black lives really don't matter the same way to them, do they?
The other thing was the cold reaction to the issue of dreamers that I saw. The lack of compassion from proclaimed Christians for people who were brought into the country as children and had known no other home than the U.S...I couldn't reconcile that attitude with someone who claims they follow Jesus. I once asked one point blank, if Jesus was standing in your room right now as you debate this issue, could you say the same thing to him? Could you tell Jesus, "It's the law! They were brought in illegally, they must go!" Or "They've already gotten advantages in education here, so let them go to Mexico and apply it there". Mind you these are 17/18 year-olds sometimes or even often. They never answered. They basically say "it's the law" but I was asking them as Christians why they support a law or oppose the changing of it, that is so cruel. Even Trump the heathen knew that to deport dreamers was inhuman but these believers were really OK with it even contrary to the stances of their churches, they were celebrating Trump's "deportation machine" under works right after the election. So sad.
In the US non-Hispanic Catholics carry plenty of baggage with all the good things you may value. Baggage enough to keep and turn away otherwise inclined African Americans. Ultimately it’s all local.
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I just had to vent. I've gotten involved in a debate with some people online that nearly made me lose my head. Some people first arguing that apartheid was good for SA because the govt now sucks. And he doesnt understand why that would be offensive to suggest to an African? Things were good "back in the day"....yeah, for whom exactly were they so sweet? SA may be doing horribly but I've lived there and I know "horribly" isnt exactly as "horribly" as we may imagine. How many Africans access good education and healthcare and sometimes ever housing absolutely free? This alone if it were the only measure would make it better than Apartheid, no matter how much cleaner and prettier it was then. Dude is suggesting that a quiet white genocide is underway and Western govts are not making noise because they are ashamed that they pressured the boers to end apartheid and now multiculturism has failed and it's all an embarrassment so they are hush about the genocide. Yeah right! Like Western govts sure would allow an African country to commit genocide against White people and not immediately cripple that country. I'm so pissed!
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Honestly, the more you encounter these people from red states the harder and harder it becomes to give them the benefit of the doubt and not presume racism. Only people from the bluer states seem to get even in that discussion how incredibly offensive it is to say to someone that ending the oppression of the majority natives is an experiment at multiculturism which fails because the govt's performance is bad......as if these populations are foreigners!!!!!
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I just had to vent. I've gotten involved in a debate with some people online that nearly made me lose my head. Some people first arguing that apartheid was good for SA because the govt now sucks. And he doesnt understand why that would be offensive to suggest to an African? Things were good "back in the day"....yeah, for whom exactly were they so sweet? SA may be doing horribly but I've lived there and I know "horribly" isnt exactly as "horribly" as we may imagine. How many Africans access good education and healthcare and sometimes ever housing absolutely free? This alone if it were the only measure would make it better than Apartheid, no matter how much cleaner and prettier it was then. Dude is suggesting that a quiet white genocide is underway and Western govts are not making noise because they are ashamed that they pressured the boers to end apartheid and now multiculturism has failed and it's all an embarrassment so they are hush about the genocide. Yeah right! Like Western govts sure would allow an African country to commit genocide against White people and not immediately cripple that country. I'm so pissed!
Many years ago when Kenya got its first Christian station FamilyFM, Irecall there used to be this boring program on Sunday morning where they played classical music.
I'm not that sophisticated so C Minor, and classical music legends just didn't make sense.
We were approaching Easter, and this bazungu host (he's a principal of a private school I can't recall) was talking about how Jews demanded that a murderer be released instead of Jesus who was innocent. He juxtaposed that against Dedan Kimathi the Mau Mau hero. Said Kenyans venerating a terrorist who killed many and stood in the way of colonialists who brought good tidings and Christianity would incur the wrath of God.
I later learnt he is an Anglican. He was interviewed by Sunday Nation and made strong arguments for colonialism.
Of course colonialism lifted us out of stone age and our angst against it deliberately ignores this, but it is the blindness against racism inherent in that, the horrors that make such arguments hypocritical.
Back then I was not too keen to connect the dots but now I know. Beneficiaries of any vice will always endeavour to rationalize them in faith. It's coping mechanism I suppose; it's easier to rationalize than admit you erred.
PS
I had some discussion with a Hindu on matters faith. I decided to drive him out of his comfort zone by asking him to state his Caste. He just got so furious and burned with rage. When he composed himself, he lamely attempted to distance Caste System from Hinduism,and he refused to state his caste.
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And another piece on why White Evangelicalism sucks. This is about the most honest thing I've read. It all boils down to money and power struggles.
https://www.politicalorphans.com/the-article-removed-from-forbes-why-white-evangelicalism-is-so-cruel/
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I just had to vent. I've gotten involved in a debate with some people online that nearly made me lose my head. Some people first arguing that apartheid was good for SA because the govt now sucks. And he doesnt understand why that would be offensive to suggest to an African? Things were good "back in the day"....yeah, for whom exactly were they so sweet? SA may be doing horribly but I've lived there and I know "horribly" isnt exactly as "horribly" as we may imagine. How many Africans access good education and healthcare and sometimes ever housing absolutely free? This alone if it were the only measure would make it better than Apartheid, no matter how much cleaner and prettier it was then. Dude is suggesting that a quiet white genocide is underway and Western govts are not making noise because they are ashamed that they pressured the boers to end apartheid and now multiculturism has failed and it's all an embarrassment so they are hush about the genocide. Yeah right! Like Western govts sure would allow an African country to commit genocide against White people and not immediately cripple that country. I'm so pissed!
There is a narrative of white farmers being butchered systematically. Even if you assume that these ridiculous claims are true, and that most victims of attacks on farms are not actually black, the numbers pale in comparison to the background of numbers of crime in general. If you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
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Christianity as we know it is dying. 50yrs from now pews will be completely empty - except for a few old people.
Instead of embracing sinners, the church slowly has been condemning them leaving many to move away and look somewhere. Mega churches have become money raising schemes rather than places where sinners are welcome.
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Christianity as we know it is dying. 50yrs from now pews will be completely empty - except for a few old people.
Instead of embracing sinners, the church slowly has been condemning them leaving many to move away and look somewhere. Mega churches have become money raising schemes rather than places where sinners are welcome.
I think it's relevant in some states, solely as a vehicle for racist impulses. They can use morals as a cudgel against those they don't like and talk about mulligans for those they adore like Trump. It's a riot of hypocrisy.
Outside the US in the west, it's already becoming or has become a cultural artifact along the lines of ancient Greece and its treasures. Something ancestors dabbled in. Africa is where it will make its last stand.