Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: patel on February 27, 2018, 11:26:12 PM
-
“Charcoal Trade In Kitui MUST STOP, Idle Demonstrators Will Not Bring Us Rain” – CHARITY NGILU
“We cannot continue cutting down trees to please idle demonstrators. The ongoing demonstrations in Limuru will never bring rains to Kitui county.
We cannot struggle to please our neighbouring charcoal trades at the expense of our lives .Charcoal trade in Kitui must stop whether they call it incitement or not.
If anybody feels they must cut trees and make charcoal, let them do it in their homes not Kitui.
It does not matter how many times you demonstrate.
It does not matter how many times you block the major roads.
It does not matter how many times they sue me.
You can block the roads for the next three years but we shall still never allow defforestation.
These are the individuals who were told to stop cutting down trees in Mau forest but they refused. They claimed that Odinga wanted wanted them to become homeless.
Right now Mau is going dry and they want to shift to Kitui.
You can always cut down trees but not in Kitui.
We cannot continue cutting down trees to please idle demonstrators.The ongoing demonstrations in Limuru will never bring rains to Kitui county.”
-
Kenya ripe for real federalism.
To hell with fake devilution as currently constituted
-
Environment is huge. Humongous! Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody. It does not only affect the location it's happening. It should be a national government responsibility. I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.
-
Poverty is even more humongous. Without charcoal - Ukambani would basically starve, kids won't go to schools and their economy would collapse. In Ukambani - outside Charcoal - the next economic activity is probably hunting. Ngilu is condemning his people to poverty. That is all. There is huge demand for charcoal in Kenya & world-wide- and charcoal traders will find source of that charcoal - even if it's Kismayu. In the meantime what will Ukambani feed on?
Environment is huge. Humongous! Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody. It does not only affect the location it's happening. It should be a national government responsibility. I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.
-
I agree with bitmask the environment is more important than the Kitui economy or some Limuru charcoalmen. GoK and counties need to invest in alternative fuel - gasoline, biogas, elec, etc. No to logging and charcoal trade.
-
Of course Mr patel here sees everything through the parochial NRM prism.
-
Poverty is even more humongous. Without charcoal - Ukambani would basically starve, kids won't go to schools and their economy would collapse. In Ukambani - outside Charcoal - the next economic activity is probably hunting. Ngilu is condemning his people to poverty. That is all. There is huge demand for charcoal in Kenya & world-wide- and charcoal traders will find source of that charcoal - even if it's Kismayu. In the meantime what will Ukambani feed on?
Environment is huge. Humongous! Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody. It does not only affect the location it's happening. It should be a national government responsibility. I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.
That’s a problem true. Environmental concerns may be the last thing on the starving man’s mind. But if they have to do charcoal there should be an aggressive program to replenish the ecosystem.
-
That’s a problem true. Environmental concerns may be the last thing on the starving man’s mind. But if they have to do charcoal there should be an aggressive program to replenish the ecosystem.
One hopes Mr Tobiko will be done shortly with an elaborate program. It seems he's been all over banning logging and very eloquent too. With an entire apparatus - Forest Service, the forest police, NEMA, anti-logging lobby, NGOs - this should not be a big challenge. He is very ambitious and can handle the inevitable political backlash.
-
Kila mtu achome makaa kwao. If the kamba want to carry on and export it, it's their issue...if they choose to quit the biashara now, that too is their issue.
Kaparo is just another jubilee harassment tool by the electoral fraudsters.
-
You and Robina come from the school of thought that "enviroment" in this case forests or trees should not be "touched". I half expected you guys would really engage some thinking into this but it's usual knee-jerk reaction from urban elite tree huggers.
Charcoal is big business in Africa and Kenya. It probably the most traded commodity. Majority of people depend on firewood and charcoal to cook their githeri. I don't know the % but anything upto 90% is possible. The way forward for Ngilu and others is not a blanket ban of charcoal. It find sustainable way for charcoal business to thrive. If you plant trees or have trees in your farm - and there is market for charcoal - go ahead-
cut the trees - and - make some money - and that will be incentive to plant more trees or leave the land for trees to grow.In our place - there is huge market for firewood that is to process tea (nearly all companies dumped expensive electricity & coal for firewood) - and people have incentive to grow trees!
Forests & trees should and will be used by humans - they just need to be used sustainably
Ngilu is just going to condemn many of his people to poverty.Finding alternative livelihood for folks is no joke. There is nothing she'll achieve climate wise. She should be working to make kitui the leading producer of charcoal - by building modern kilns and producing briquettes (that has global demand) - and encouraging people to engage in agro-forestry. Remove charcoal - and what do they honestly have - the desertification is global cyclical phenomenan way bigger than Ngilu to handle...humans didn't make the ice age :) these things are bigger than us.
That’s a problem true. Environmental concerns may be the last thing on the starving man’s mind. But if they have to do charcoal there should be an aggressive program to replenish the ecosystem.
-
Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.
-
Btw whatever happened to "mathenge" plant in Baringo - some investors had set up a plant to generate electricity. That is what Kitui and Ukambani need. Mathenge that can grow in there or Sisal that can do well in such enviroment. Obviously if you criminalize charcoal - why would I grow Mathenge? Kitui will remain hopelessly a desert.
Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.
-
Btw whatever happened to "mathenge" plant in Baringo - some investors had set up a plant to generate electricity. That is what Kitui and Ukambani need. Mathenge that can grow in there or Sisal that can do well in such enviroment. Obviously if you criminalize charcoal - why would I grow Mathenge? Kitui will remain hopelessly a desert.
Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.
Or agave plant to produce Kenyan Tequila.
-
You and Robina come from the school of thought that "enviroment" in this case forests or trees should not be "touched". I half expected you guys would really engage some thinking into this but it's usual knee-jerk reaction from urban elite tree huggers.
Charcoal is big business in Africa and Kenya. It probably the most traded commodity. Majority of people depend on firewood and charcoal to cook their githeri. I don't know the % but anything upto 90% is possible. The way forward for Ngilu and others is not a blanket ban of charcoal. It find sustainable way for charcoal business to thrive. If you plant trees or have trees in your farm - and there is market for charcoal - go ahead-
cut the trees - and - make some money - and that will be incentive to plant more trees or leave the land for trees to grow.In our place - there is huge market for firewood that is to process tea (nearly all companies dumped expensive electricity & coal for firewood) - and people have incentive to grow trees!
Forests & trees should and will be used by humans - they just need to be used sustainably
Ngilu is just going to condemn many of his people to poverty.Finding alternative livelihood for folks is no joke. There is nothing she'll achieve climate wise. She should be working to make kitui the leading producer of charcoal - by building modern kilns and producing briquettes (that has global demand) - and encouraging people to engage in agro-forestry. Remove charcoal - and what do they honestly have - the desertification is global cyclical phenomenan way bigger than Ngilu to handle...humans didn't make the ice age :) these things are bigger than us.
That’s a problem true. Environmental concerns may be the last thing on the starving man’s mind. But if they have to do charcoal there should be an aggressive program to replenish the ecosystem.
This is the same argument as poaching.
The problem is with our corruption and laziness, we will guzzle more free than we can plant
-
How about you explain how this the same as poaching. Unless you mean the same thing as allowing trade in some wild animals - where there is over-production - like in case of Botswana elephants?
Kitui should just work to license charcoal - that mean before you cut trees and make charcoal - you need a permit - and the same case with transporting it.
Charcoal has been banned in kenya for years but the demand & supply will never subside. There is real huge demand for charcoal well until Robina come up with new cheap way to cook Githeri
This is the same argument as poaching.
The problem is with our corruption and laziness, we will guzzle more free than we can plant
-
Does it matter which prism he is looking at if it from if it also happens that he is correct. Pundit looked at it with Jubilee glasses and got it wrong. Burning trees to make Charcoal is a horrible thing to do to the environment and it should be illegal just like brewing changaa or growing marihuana to feed your kids. It has to stop and folks have to find other means of supporting their families.
Of course Mr patel here sees everything through the parochial NRM prism.
-
Kenya is in a horrible state when it comes to environmental issues. Driving up and down to the Mau escarpment is an experience a tourist will only do once. Trucks, and Matatus spew smog as if there is no tomorrow. By the time you get to Narok, the amount of smog in your lungs is horrible. Meanwhile, NEMA is busy arresting plastic bag users while trees come down en masse. Cities are allowed to spew sewer into open public places without treatment. In the end, Someone will have to pay for all these mess.
-
Pundit has been praising Uhuruto for rolling out powerlines countrywide. Well, this power should be cheap enough for lighting, cooking, heating and all domestic needs. It must be good enough too for light industry. That must be GoK and counties' new objective. Of course change of economic proportions is hard, and the Environment CS should give leadership. The Kenyan forest cover is at 1%; the global standard is 10% :o If Madam Ngilu's actions trigger this forever overly due debate she is in my good books.
-
It's a process - you cannot overturn charcoal in a single day - it will take in my estimation 30 yrs or more before folks stop cooking with firewood & charcoal - even if electricity is given out for free. You'd still need to give out oven :) and cooker for free; Sometime you guys need to step out of utopia. Ngilu is doing nothing - more than feeding the kikuyu hate machine - with some charcoal.
Pundit has been praising Uhuruto for rolling out powerlines countrywide. Well, this power should be cheap enough for lighting, cooking, heating and all domestic needs. It must be good enough too for light industry. That must be GoK and counties' new objective. Of course change of economic proportions is hard, and the Environment CS should give leadership. The Kenyan forest cover is at 1%; the global standard is 10% :o If Madam Ngilu's actions trigger this forever overly due debate she is in my good books.
-
Don't worry am working on that - utopia - a post-Development world where folks don't need to work for a living. This is the vision of robots and industrie 4.0; it can be done in less than 30 yrs.
It's a process - you cannot overturn charcoal in a single day - it will take in my estimation 30 yrs or more before folks stop cooking with firewood & charcoal - even if electricity is given out for free. You'd still need to give out oven :) and cooker for free; Sometime you guys need to step out of utopia. Ngilu is doing nothing - more than feeding the kikuyu hate machine - with some charcoal.
-
I see Tobiko and Ruto are onto serious business on matters environment. On citizen web stream.
-
There is need for tree planting everywhere....like it happened during moi time. They can start with roads, railways, all reserve land and public institutions...schools. That will go a long way in getting us past 10%. Gov owns huge tract of land and if they planted trees; it will be fine.
For forests - fence them off is a first start - if not tea zones around it -
-
There is need for tree planting everywhere....like it happened during moi time. They can start with roads, railways, all reserve land and public institutions...schools. That will go a long way in getting us past 10%. Gov owns huge tract of land and if they planted trees; it will be fine.
For forests - fence them off is a first start - if not tea zones around it -
During Nyayo days - I think the chief would enforce some policy about at least 2 trees per acre. It was illegal to clear trees - and the chief and village "headman" would enforce this strictly.
-
Ruto only cares about politics. When it was politically convenient, he demonized Raila in the Mau forest Saga. Now that the chicken are coming home to roost he wants to be an environmentalist. He is a fraud. The only thing Ruto has perfected in his life, is stealing. Other than that there is nothing he has done to help this country. He supported dictator Moi. He opposed the 2nd liberation. He opposed the New Katiba, he opposed the preservation of Mau forest, he is opposed to electoral reforms, and the list goes on and on.
There is need for tree planting everywhere....like it happened during moi time. They can start with roads, railways, all reserve land and public institutions...schools. That will go a long way in getting us past 10%. Gov owns huge tract of land and if they planted trees; it will be fine.
For forests - fence them off is a first start - if not tea zones around it -
During Nyayo days - I think the chief would enforce some policy about at least 2 trees per acre. It was illegal to clear trees - and the chief and village "headman" would enforce this strictly.
-
Ruto only cares about politics. When it was politically convenient, he demonized Raila in the Mau forest Saga. Now that the chicken are coming home to roost he wants to be an environmentalist. He is a fraud. The only thing Ruto has perfected in his life, is stealing. Other than that there is nothing he has done to help this country. He supported dictator Moi. He opposed the 2nd liberation. He opposed the New Katiba, he opposed the preservation of Mau forest, he is opposed to electoral reforms, and the list goes on and on.
There is need for tree planting everywhere....like it happened during moi time. They can start with roads, railways, all reserve land and public institutions...schools. That will go a long way in getting us past 10%. Gov owns huge tract of land and if they planted trees; it will be fine.
For forests - fence them off is a first start - if not tea zones around it -
During Nyayo days - I think the chief would enforce some policy about at least 2 trees per acre. It was illegal to clear trees - and the chief and village "headman" would enforce this strictly.
Stealing. That is what I think Kenyans of many stripes have a robust tolerance for. I have seen people suggest that if Raila does not win with a landslide, there is no problem with the jubilated(or whichever gangster happens to be in power) topping up their vote to overturn the outcome.
I don't think there is any hope in the foreseeable future that an environment can be permitted in which a competitive and fair Presidential election is held. In these circumstances the victor is Ruto. The jubilant can thus be praised as a political genius, especially if you subscribe to the criminality doesn't matter school. If you don't subscribe to that, then the logical thing is to view him as a thug(which is also my view).
Raila's real naivety is his belief that there is a legitimate way of choosing a Kenyan President in a competitive environment. I think it is possible to have a legitimate Presidential election, but only if it's not competitive. With opposition tickets dominated by Ekuru Aukot and Dida types.
That said, you never know with Raila.
-
https://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/Charcoal/2718262-4326374-c3wm0bz/index.html
-
https://www.nation.co.ke/newsplex/Charcoal/2718262-4326374-c3wm0bz/index.html
How about kenya giving private sector incentives to install gas pipes in urban areas and having one gas trunkline pipe connecting kenya and Tanzania natural gas. This would make gas cheaper than charcoal or electricity. We can even have a token payment system where one can buy gas for one time cooking session as little as ksh.50. If we have managed to install fibre even in our humble Nyeri village this is definitely doable.