Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on March 20, 2022, 09:36:54 PM
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I will document the history behind the cut and it's spread in East Africa. Worldwide the cut was middle Eastern culture Which spread thanks to Islam and Judaism..to small extent..less due to Christianity because the gentiles of Europe adopted Christianity without Jewish culture
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In Kenya it's linked to events 2000 yrs ago..when initially Islam spread in Africa before being displaced by Christianity..then another two hundred years Islam overrun the region except Ethiopia
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In Kenya outside the Muslim world most who cut definitely copied kalenjin.. almost everything.. Kikuyu ageset like maina or nyongi- mwangi or nyige . copied by other Bantus..juma is almost universal.. kalenjin it's chumo..moi ageset. some oromos .. kalenjin themselves claim they copied aboriginal..that they did first circumscion in my Elgon
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If aboriginal practiced it would be prevalent in South Africa.... kalenjin therefore associated or forced anything that was nasty like circumscion or forging weapons to ogiek.. Somalis...they were held like slaves
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The real genesis is initially spread of Islam before being supplanted by Christianity in Egypt and Sudan about 2000 yrs ago
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Circumscion for long time was the bare minimum before any association could be initiated.At least kalenjin made to new coming Bantus that they would be untouchable until they cut.kalenjin and oromos having arrived in Kenya first..2000 yrs ago to find Hunters and gatherer's
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Kenya bantus soon cut and inherited all stereotypes about the uncut.The Luos being recent arrival and notable warriors refused.Luos have been in Kenya for like 500yrs..arriving from Uganda.The same for turkana they could hold their ground with their foreskin intact... beating many tribes and make nonsense of the cut
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Kalenjin understand more than any tribe that cut was never natural..they know they start it Mt Elgon under direction of dorobo..then there is Mt in londiani..Mt kipsigis or Mt phyallus.. generally kalenjin will not associated with uncut but will not berate them..they understand it's culture thing
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For kalenjin cut we are friends..don't cut we don't associate.. neither friend.. neither enemy..we just don't flow
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Unlike say bukusu kalenjin will never force you cut..cut is supposed to be your own volition unless you make the mistake of seeing the secret stuff.. otherwise kalenjin understand it's your volition .You will be asked severally if you're ready. ..you are given so many chances to refuse
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For kalenjin the cut is a momentous event life that is sombre....it's like marriage..it's time you commit to being a warrior..to be a man..to behave like a man..to forever be stoic..it's big deal..it huge deal
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After the cut the jovial kalenjin boy is replaced by warrior..who doesn't show his teeth..who can kill you without caring..boy became man..the man is stoic who display zero emotions..he has taken through pain to eliminate any emotions...he subjected to torture and eventually it big ceremony
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The celebration of manhood takes days.Your family is proud that your aced it.The respect you get afterwards.From then you are a warrior only summon rarely.You basically do nothing.. you're man..but if something big..you demonstrate your warriorhood by dealing with situation decively.If it's to beat someone you leave them half dead.
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By then youve acquired second family..the guys who went through the torture they become your lifelong partner..they are like your brother's..botum or bakule can even fuck you wife.These are guys who went through 24 hours torture in MTC and formed life long partnership and comradeship
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The torture of MTC begin day one and last a month..you get beaten, harrassed, degraded and name it..you don't sleep.
..they turn a boy into man...many ceremonies lasting many hours..all painful.. anybody allowed to beat you senseless
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Unlike Kikuyus kalenjin dont oath..unless it's very very rare.. kalenjin believe an oath is deadly.You take first and probably the last oath in circumscion..it's an oath never to reveal what you went thro..it's oaths that reverberate..it's only oath you will take it..you take it and chant four times.. women threes times
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The oath is simple..it says I will die if I ever reveal the tumdo...what happens there stay there..the ugly the nasty
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Post MTC..I remember I spent times with my new friends..we were inseparable..we were a gang..we had cried ...we had suffered together..we had been debased called woman amid pain..we were one..we would kill anybody who challenged manhood
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Kalenjin MTC turns boys into warriors by allowing any man to come and torture you.. some mlevi can give ridiculous assignment like protect this flie...this my cow..you cannot protect fly or tiny insect's...if he comes back and doesn't find he beat you senseless..this to kalenjin is losing a cow
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You penis multilated your choice name is to call bloody woman..they abuse you..they denigrate...you live in forest..you have tasks but they feed you well
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There are days that you kill a animal or a bird... that the days you discover birds fly and animals disappear... luckily we had ogiek who can smell animals..as for birds..there are guys who shoot them dead.. animals get confused by animals skin we wore
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Most of days is spent learning to forge weapons.. learning to make the best arrows..the marksmanship..that was most important..with competition..you have to shoot something so tiny .. handling weapons.. arrows and swords
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What important is after that time..you start respecting everyone...you become responsible.. only summoned to deal with big issues..but you smile less, laugh less and become reserved.. you're now a warrior.
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The last ceremony is when you father gives you his name.. now you arap xyz.Your father approach you and say I give you my name..you're now son of xyz...from then you're entitled to be arap..we went to school dump our first two names and took on arap..Arap Ruto..son of kipruto..for example.
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Pundit: can you explain this to me: Kikuyu men are all "cut" but you will find them skirting their responsibilities and not paying child support or not providing for their families. Luo men that are uncut are doing better on this front. So, the cut doesn't mean much if you end up with jobless drunkards that can't provide for their wives and kids
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A cut man is suppose to be responsible and to take charge of situations..not to do childish stuff.Yiu cannot for example play with kid toys.If your orphaned or parents absent you take charge and provide leadership.Your day begin by organizing kihiis on their responsibilities then you disappear to busaa then comeback to beat then it they messed up.You and your parents are now equal.Your parents forbidden to ever lay their hand on you.. You're are now equal to any man.if big man beat you..you get you gang and track him.Youre now called by your English name and Arap..never by kipsomething unless by elderly
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The most responsible family men in this world are Western (White) men and a good majority of them are not only uncut, they look at it as some primitive practice. Anyone who thinks there's a connection between how good a husband/father a man is and whether/not they're circumcised just needs to visit this country then go and live among Bazungu family men. Iyo tu.
Not saying it's a practice to throw away, or that it lacks cultural significance. But if someone allows themselves to get into magical thinking about this, they're tricking their own selves. What makes a good man is a combination of their nature and upbringing (nurture). Ladies, msidanganyike :D Don't let a good guy go for something this superficial.
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The cut is very small part of kalenjin tradition..the big part is the training and more so the expectation that a n man or a woman should behave..both sexes were taken through..with men ushered to be warriors after six months to a year of training..with cut done on day .. what I know kalenjin men unlike say gusii change after the cut...it's life changing experience.The age of the cut has come down but previously it was supposed to be around age of adulthood..to usher men to adulthood and women to marriage.The period of seclusion has reduced from a year to six months to 3 months to now even 3 weeks
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You are too confused. Even mzungu is forced by laws to take care of his children through those crazy laws.
Our grandfathers were deadbeat kapsaa. It was a woman's job to till the land, take care of the children. Kids were a form of labour too while the old geezers just drunk busaa or muratina or feasting on goats.
Our generation has done so well despite the confusion by Western media and kanisa nonsense. No appreciation at all despite having no compass to refer in all this confusion.
Pundit: can you explain this to me: Kikuyu men are all "cut" but you will find them skirting their responsibilities and not paying child support or not providing for their families. Luo men that are uncut are doing better on this front. So, the cut doesn't mean much if you end up with jobless drunkards that can't provide for their wives and kids
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Is the history lesson meant to spin away Moses Kuria's vomit? Ruto or Ichung'was shoud call him out.
Moses Kuria lives in the Dark Ages
https://www.the-star.co.ke/opinion/leader/2022-03-21-moses-kuria-lives-in-the-dark-ages/
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Is the history lesson meant to spin away Moses Kuria's vomit? Ruto or Ichung'was shoud call him out.
Moses Kuria lives in the Dark Ages
https://www.the-star.co.ke/opinion/leader/2022-03-21-moses-kuria-lives-in-the-dark-ages/
Robina,
The link you just posted this is the first paragraph:
Kenya is made up of more than 44 recognised communities with different traditions and practices that together form the nation's fabric...
Now if you ask @Pundit to list these 44 recognized communities (aka tribes), he will respond that of these 44, 30 of them are Luhya (17) and Kalenjin (11). See below what he posted:
You need to pass basic level of sound argumentation to warrant a response.
For example of 44 or 45 tribes - Luhya is counted and so are the almost 17 subtribes; Kalenjin 11 substribes; combined Kalenj+Luhya is almost 20 tribes. Mijikenda 9 tribes. We are at 30 tribes. The rest are the 14 - Luo, Abasuba, Somali, Kikuyu, Meru, Embu, Mbeere, Kamba...get the drift moron.
Of the 44 kenya tribes - 30 are sub tribes of Luhya, Kalenjin and Mijikenda. I personally choose my tribe as Kipsigis but can pick Kalenjin sometimes. You also pick Bukusu as tribe and Luhya sometimes.
https://nipate.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=0b52cc986e6ef95fc9725deb69170ab9&topic=11804.msg107516#msg107516
Some parents of members here should ask for a refund of the school fees they paid for their children. :(
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Fala - is you tribe Bukusu or Luhya? Personally I have always listed my tribe as Kipsigis.
Is the history lesson meant to spin away Moses Kuria's vomit? Ruto or Ichung'was shoud call him out.
Moses Kuria lives in the Dark Ages
https://www.the-star.co.ke/opinion/leader/2022-03-21-moses-kuria-lives-in-the-dark-ages/
Robina,
The link you just posted this is the first paragraph:
Kenya is made up of more than 44 recognised communities with different traditions and practices that together form the nation's fabric...
Now if you ask @Pundit to list these 44 recognized communities (aka tribes), he will respond that of these 44, 30 of them are Luhya (17) and Kalenjin (11). See below what he posted:
https://nipate.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=0b52cc986e6ef95fc9725deb69170ab9&topic=11804.msg107516#msg107516