Secession Bill

[RV Pundit]

I'd vote for it.

Absolutely, if JEBC runs the referendum.

[Empedocles]

http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176

The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV.  An odd inclusion if you ask me.

It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to  negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!

It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.

Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.

Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.

But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.

Have a nice day and peace brother.

I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.



Let's see what happens going forward.

[vooke]

[Kichwa]

http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176

The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV.  An odd inclusion if you ask me.

It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to  negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!

It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.

Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.

Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.

But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.

Have a nice day and peace brother.

I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.



Let's see what happens going forward.

If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with  2007 because that is when the rain started beating us.

[Empedocles]

http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176

The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV.  An odd inclusion if you ask me.

It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to  negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!

It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.

Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.

Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.

But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.

Have a nice day and peace brother.

I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.



Let's see what happens going forward.

If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with  2007 because without 2007, because that is when the rain started beating us.

I was in the thick of things in 2007, for ODM.

The planning and execution of the ODM campaign was topnotch, until Aug./Sept. 2007 when carelessness by Ruto (repeated afterwards by Rao) seeped in.

Kibaki never planned to run but a few of Ruto's careless remarks forced him to quickly cobble up PNU, start late campaigns, and finally steal the elections (I'm not judging).

Anyway, that's a story for another day.

[Kichwa]

http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176

The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV.  An odd inclusion if you ask me.

It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to  negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!

It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.

Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.

Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.

But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.

Have a nice day and peace brother.

I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.



Let's see what happens going forward.

If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with  2007 because without 2007, because that is when the rain started beating us.

I was in the thick of things in 2007, for ODM.

The planning and execution of the ODM campaign was topnotch, until Aug./Sept. 2007 when carelessness by Ruto (repeated afterwards by Rao) seeped in.

Kibaki never planned to run but a few of Ruto's careless remarks forced him to quickly cobble up PNU, start late campaigns, and finally steal the elections (I'm not judging).

Anyway, that's a story for another day.

stealing is stealing whether the robber found the door wide open or whether the robber had to break in to steal. 2007 was therefore the genesis of this electoral authoritarianism that was perfected in 2013, 2017 and will be even more sophisticated in 2022 if not stopped.  NASA has assigned itself the task to stop it and is very aware of how hard its going to be and that is why it must take an extraordinarily hardline including secession.  Some people think that secession is very possible, some think that it's impossible, a red herring, a joke, etc. All I can say is that, its a big country and all these views are all within the range of reason. What I can say is that whatever you think of it, in the NASA rallies, secession gets the biggest applause. Both the politicians and intellectuals have noticed and are starting to come to terms with it.

[Nefertiti]

Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.

Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.

The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.

[Empedocles]

Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.

Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.

The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.

It's like watching a real life version of the old school game Lemmings, following the leader off a cliff.

[Nefertiti]

Referendum to evict the Luo from Kenya... this must be a counter to the Kaluma nonsense. I think any secession idea is stupid even as a bargain tool. Especially when the premise is cyclic election or makeshift coalition. It's better to cite drought as the reason.

This one can win in a referendum
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill

[Kichwa]

Referendum to evict the Luo from Kenya... this must be a counter to the Kaluma nonsense. I think any secession idea is stupid even as a bargain tool. Especially when the premise is cyclic election or makeshift coalition. It's better to cite drought as the reason.

This one can win in a referendum
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill

[Nefertiti]

Kichwa the Kaluma and MakOdingo bills - and the fake maps being circulated - tell us this is a silly political game.

If you seceded in 2007/8 the map would have been Kamba+Gema v Luo+Kalenjin

1997 - Mijikenda+Kamba+Kalenjin v Gema+Luo

Today - Mijikenda+Luo v Gema+Kalenjin

Sorry I don't see any principled or "like-minded" groups in this secession seesaw. There is no historical injustice here - definitely no sophisticated machinery that will churn out Muhoho in 2032 That's a nightmare you've dreamt up; the poor boy can't even speak By 2027 Kalenjin might be on the same side with the Luo or the Kamba should Jubilee break asunder.

[hk]

If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.

[vooke]

Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators.

[GeeMail]

The makodingo bill is silly games. If it is up to silly games two can play. Several other counties can apply to beenjoined and we'll then see how that ends. The jubilant knife will be turned backwards. As to whether winning the presidency is easier, the wording is ibcorrect and totally musleading. STEALING THE PRESIDENCY IS EASIER. Say that after me 50 times.

[GeeMail]

Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators.

What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.

[Empedocles]

Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators.

What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.

Just like the British.

Same play, different actors.

[vooke]

Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators.

What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.

Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017

Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?

[Nefertiti]

If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.

Sorry there are no such units. The counties are miniscule enough - and some can't even feed themselves. We need more EAC - and COMESA and AU - not more subdivision. Trade blocks implies unity and synergy not division. Divisions are always to assuage entitled ethnic or racist feelings - not about the economy. Even in a place like Sweden - where poor Africans die in the sea to reach - there are folks who cry federalism or secession - the "alt right" - because they have been screwed by the system. This is politics not economy.

[Kichwa]

Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.

Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.

The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.

It's like watching a real life version of the old school game Lemmings, following the leader off a cliff.

We are definitely taking a risk resisting this dictators fully aware that nothing good comes without taking a risk. The 1st liberation was a risk, the 2nd was a risk and the 3rd will also be a risk.  People will die, maimed and detained but Status quo is no longer acceptable to us. 

[Kichwa]

Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators.

What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.

Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017

Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?

You are comparing apples and oranges in a strange a very strenuous attempt to justify the electoral authoritarianism that we are fighting.  This is very different from the multi-party liberation which dislodged Kanu/Moi.  I am really not interested in persuading you to join us if you are happy where you are, just stop lecturing us on what is good for us as if we are your children.