Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: gout on March 21, 2019, 06:17:46 PM
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Leave me alone you are the corrupt you help me steal!! I only keep the loot!!
Ruto blamed professionals for the rise in graft and told them to lead by example through ethical practices. It is time professionals promoted ethics and integrity in public service as they drive their agenda and policies, he said.
“Our most vexing problems as a nation have a strong professional component. And they relate to our professionals failing to rise to their highest standards and full potential.
"Corruption involving misappropriation and embezzlement of public funds entails an understanding among and between accountants, auditors, economists and such professionals to see to it that budgets are diverted and misused."
He said Kenyans must move from broad generalities and begin to examine the contributions of specific professionals to corruption.
"Accountants who manipulate numbers, occasioning loss of value in the public and private sectors; surveyors and planners who facilitate expropriation of public land in shoddy and corrupt schemes; human resource managers who skew interviews and promotions and sacrifice merit at the shrine of tribalism, and qualification on the altar of nepotism are to blame for corruption.”
He said wayward lawyers promote judicial corruption, adding that a bad decision procured for a valuable reward requires lawyers willing to negotiate terms and coordinate modalities by which the justice is perverted.
"Judges who auction justice to the highest bidder, consigning innocent people to untold suffering and media practitioners who file fake stories influenced by brown envelopes are part of the mess in this country.”
The DP said bad roads are a direct consequence of corrupt dealings involving engineers who compromise designs, allow poor supervision, permit shortcuts, or approve substandard work.
Also condemned were “lecturers who award grades on the basis of inappropriate relations”.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-03-21-im-the-target-of-ill-founded-war-on-graft-says-dp-ruto/?fbclid=IwAR25GWFVx2u4SRpEEjSnzTdTAjzHD_T7luk2g5udjW2W-cEN9MtZG2k_uK8
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But he does not provide any evidence of who these people are. If he knows about it, what has he done about it as deputy-CEO?
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This moron is Moi with a PhD in corruption - stealing dam money - are there surviving wetlands in Kenya? I heard he's like Michuki or Matiang'i or is it Nyachae :) For the sleaze and dictatorial traits - he is more like Mobutu or Abacha.
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Take your meds. Dr Ruto is Kenya next PORK.
This moron is Moi with a PhD in corruption - stealing dam money - are there surviving wetlands in Kenya? I heard he's like Michuki or Matiang'i or is it Nyachae :) For the sleaze and dictatorial traits - he is more like Mobutu or Abacha.
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Again the obvious - PhD in "wetlands" - while he oversee the destruction of Mau. Which doctorate does he really deserve? You see a visionary we see your clay idol - and break its nose.
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Kenya is a fucked up place. Everything is politicised. Meanwhile the government is overseeing huge tracts of land under European cash crops, kenyatta iddle estates, etc.... But people complain when displaced peasant camp at the nearest forest.
It's all bullshit. Nothing about conservation here!!
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Again the obvious - PhD in "wetlands" - while he oversee the destruction of Mau. Which doctorate does he really deserve? You see a visionary we see your clay idol - and break its nose.
You raise an interesting thing I have observed. Africans getting an education they will never(and never intend to) apply.
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Ruto does "apply" his PhD - by destroying the very wetlands :) it's like a beggar with a PhD in entrepreneurship. Pundit's blinkers are tribalism 101. To be clear my derision does zero to his chances - actually his thrift in rot is a big advantage. Brace for a mountain of debt for dismal progress.
Again the obvious - PhD in "wetlands" - while he oversee the destruction of Mau. Which doctorate does he really deserve? You see a visionary we see your clay idol - and break its nose.
You raise an interesting thing I have observed. Africans getting an education they will never(and never intend to) apply.
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His PHD is on plant ecology. He is not a environmental conservator. He is DPORK with deep botanical knowledge.
Plant Ecology subdiscipline of ecology which studies the distribution and abundance of plants, the effects of environmental factors upon the abundance of plants, and the interactions among and between plants and other organisms.
Ruto does "apply" his PhD - by destroying the very wetlands :) it's like a beggar with a PhD in entrepreneurship. Pundit's blinkers are tribalism 101. To be clear my derision does zero to his chances - actually his thrift in rot is a big advantage. Brace for a mountain of debt for dismal progress.
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You want Ruto or Sonko or next kenya leader not to steal but somehow compete with likes of Uhuru, Mois, Odingas whose parents stoles, their themselves stoles in their 20s and are now in 70s still stealing - and using it for their political advantage.
Ruto has leveled the playing ground by stealing from public coffers..likes of Sonkos steal from the streets....so it doesn't become a question of who has more money..but who has the leadership abilities to deliver kenya.
Kenyattas have stolen what half a million acrees - and when Ruto steal 1 or 2 acres in Nairobi - you go BONKERS!
The only way to combat corruption in Kenya is to do what Jerry Rawling did - basically jail nearly everyone with some wealth they cannot explain - starting with Mama Ngina, Moi and the rest. Confiscate their wealth.
And maybe the next generation will start on a level playing field.
This moron is Moi with a PhD in corruption - stealing dam money - are there surviving wetlands in Kenya? I heard he's like Michuki or Matiang'i or is it Nyachae :) For the sleaze and dictatorial traits - he is more like Mobutu or Abacha.
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Corruption is just an item. I respect your mind but BLINKERS – “Ruto is visionary” is just like “Raila is a reformer.” I have never supported Kenyatta or Moi. You are welcome to lump Odinga with them for flavor.
Lest the main point is lost – what is your solution to our problems – and thus your prescription of the Ruto pill? Borrow-build-grow. We are not Indonesia cause we have no oil boom or massive exports. Why can't we build our own roads - like the Chinese? - it would be much cheaper. The answer is obvious - graft - but this line of thought is taboo to you - cos the Promised Savior excels in it.
Ohh Kibaki borrowed and built rapidly – compared to Moi - so we must step up the only proven formula - no thinking needed just borrow and build. How is this visionary? Ruto has no solution for Kenya and is not better than any other leader. Start from there. Isitoshe - being wantonly and openly corrupt – minting at harambees – is worse than Kenyatta or Moi because of PORK’s influence on other leaders, the bureaucracy and the larger community especially the youth. You cannot preach hard work and also overtly steal – it is a big contradiction - that even school children learn it is no use to work hard.
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Ruto does "apply" his PhD - by destroying the very wetlands :) it's like a beggar with a PhD in entrepreneurship. Pundit's blinkers are tribalism 101. To be clear my derision does zero to his chances - actually his thrift in rot is a big advantage. Brace for a mountain of debt for dismal progress.
Again the obvious - PhD in "wetlands" - while he oversee the destruction of Mau. Which doctorate does he really deserve? You see a visionary we see your clay idol - and break its nose.
You raise an interesting thing I have observed. Africans getting an education they will never(and never intend to) apply.
I get that :lolz:. I am just more curious about even those who are less destructive but treat what they learned in school as something that works in another universe. When you look at America for example, the country generally functions because most people are applying things they learned in High School and at most trade school. It's almost as if Africans don't believe the stuff they learned and even excelled at in school.
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You can engage in all sorts of unsubstantiated graft allegations against Dr Ruto but we all know he is clean as pamba as far as the law is concerned. So lets not waste time with rumours and propaganda. Kenyattas are clean. Mois are clean. Odingas are clean. Ruto is clean.
People who have been found in law to be corrupt - are well known - they are not that many. One of them is my man lawyer Kirui - former Telkom MD - who is now serving jail for stealing Nairobi cemetery with Mudavadi.
I think going forwards - let us try to stick to facts - and be objective.
Now to the your important questions. I say TRACK RECORD matters. What are Ruto achievements in places he has led. Anybody can talk a storm but what people are looking for are track record of Ruto has MP for North Rift - where his CDF was one of best managed - his track record in KANU & MOI - where he rose quickly thro the ranks through sheer talent - and his shortlived tenure as Min under an hostile Raila - where he excelled in Agriculture & Higher Education.
I told you a personal story from my dad. My dad is Kibaki man for many years. When Ruto became min of agricluture - they had issues around tea - and they booked appointment - Ruto was able to see them - my fathers and others farmer were allowed to sell tea to multinationals in Kericho - and for some 5yrs farmers in my places were making serious money. My uncle had loan issues with KFA - Ruto was able to see them. Ruto would arrive at office 5am - and would solve issues -
Ruto was named the best minister. When Raila heard that - he reshuffled him to what he thought was useless ministry - higher education - Ruto on first day was able to unlock a crisis that had last nearly 30yrs since 1990s strike - admission had been begged with bed capacity - always us who went to university knows how long we waited - 2yrs - for hostel to be available - and Ruto was able to solve that in DAY ONE. He simply ordered universities to do DOUBLE admission to deal with backlog - just one year of double admission - had cleared huge backlog - and now kids don't wait for 2yrs - but at most 4-10 months.
We need people like Matiangi, Ruto and Magoha in Kenya. ANd GOD without CHINESE were would we be. We need those Chinese. Let them build us roads..and take the cream (profit margin & few jobs)....until our contractors are able to measure. What is more important..the contractor or the road or railway delivered on time & coast.
Lest the main point is lost – what is your solution to our problems – and thus your prescription of the Ruto pill? Borrow-build-grow. We are not Indonesia cause we have no oil boom or massive exports. Why can't we build our own roads - like the Chinese? - it would be much cheaper. The answer is obvious - graft - but this line of thought is taboo to you - cos the Promised Savior excels in it.
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Infrastructure has a marginal utility – supplying power or rail to illiterate folks – there are no investors who can’t open factories because there is no rail. The road is cheaper as you have seen the math. You must be very economical – very frugal – which Uhuru or Ruto is not. Kibaki borrowing or privatizing was OK because there was almost nothing from Moi.
Murram or even tarmac to arable areas is OK – where there is actual production. These roads should be built for cheap by GoK parastatal – the way water parastatal lays and fixes water pipes – if iron-fist discipline was applied to the works. It is wrong – and STUPID - to extend super-expensive SGR to Naivasha or Malaba – what industries are there??
Of course it’s a big lie that a known thief like Ruto can be efficient – corruption is WASTAGE – with a domino effect. I know you hate the subject. How much has trickle-down corruption cost us compared to the fixing of college wait time? Can you even compare? Why do we need to build dams? It's like Mungiki or al Shaabab offering security services :) People see PORK is a thief and steal down the chain and there is nothing you can achieve. With or without the hare-brained borrow & build Ruto can never achieve anything.
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Infrastructure has marginal utility - are you crazy or what? The first day a sign board for tarmac road is put in any place - property in that place instantly appreciate - I think in Kenya it's doubles. Apart from jobs and business that arises during it's constructions - the infrastructure improves the quality of life of the residents, saves time and money - and spur development. Yes companies will not rush to open factories on account of a new road - and majority of factories will general open in even remote place as long as there are raw materials - but that is not reason why we are building roads, providing water, electricity and basic infrastructure - Gov does that because it needs to do that - it's an obligation for gov to provide us basic good if not excellent infrastructure.
Kibaki grew the economy on average 4.5% against Jubilee 5.5% - without factoring rebasing. So on that count - Jubilee are doing better.
Infrastructure has a marginal utility – supplying power or rail to illiterate folks – there are no investors who can’t open factories because there is no rail. The road is cheaper as you have seen the math. You must be very economical – very frugal – which Uhuru or Ruto is not. Kibaki borrowing or privatizing was OK because there was almost nothing from Moi.
Murram or even tarmac to arable areas is OK – where there is actual production. These roads should be built for cheap by GoK parastatal – the way water parastatal lays and fixes water pipes – if iron-fist discipline was applied to the works. It is wrong – and STUPID - to extend super-expensive SGR to Naivasha or Malaba – what industries are there??
Of course it’s a big lie that a known thief like Ruto can be efficient – corruption is WASTAGE – with a domino effect. I know you hate the subject. How much has trickle-down corruption cost us compared to the fixing of college wait time? Can you even compare? Why do we need to build dams? It's like Mungiki or al Shaabab offering security services :) People see PORK is a thief and steal down the chain and there is nothing you can achieve. With or without the hare-brained borrow & build Ruto can never achieve anything.
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Omollo agrees you are brilliant but blinkers.. ab initio prejudice or your mind is hostage to a subject. Drop the idol and you can see all the options Kenya has.
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Lootall is telling the guys who have been facilitating his looting that they should hang alone and that anyone trying to snitch on him will face the consequences.
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Infrastructure has a marginal utility – supplying power or rail to illiterate folks – there are no investors who can’t open factories because there is no rail. The road is cheaper as you have seen the math. You must be very economical – very frugal – which Uhuru or Ruto is not. Kibaki borrowing or privatizing was OK because there was almost nothing from Moi.
Murram or even tarmac to arable areas is OK – where there is actual production. These roads should be built for cheap by GoK parastatal – the way water parastatal lays and fixes water pipes – if iron-fist discipline was applied to the works. It is wrong – and STUPID - to extend super-expensive SGR to Naivasha or Malaba – what industries are there??
Of course it’s a big lie that a known thief like Ruto can be efficient – corruption is WASTAGE – with a domino effect. I know you hate the subject. How much has trickle-down corruption cost us compared to the fixing of college wait time? Can you even compare? Why do we need to build dams? It's like Mungiki or al Shaabab offering security services :) People see PORK is a thief and steal down the chain and there is nothing you can achieve. With or without the hare-brained borrow & build Ruto can never achieve anything.
Precisely . The most pressing issue in kenya is production and income deficit. The fallacy that infrastructure deficit is the most urgent was parroted by jubilee so that they could inflate the cost of projects and get kickbacks. Kenya has limited resources so it behooves the government to allocate the resources to areas that can yield more return in spurring economic development. Inflated and misguided projects takes away resources from the economy. This has been jubilee economy bane, as a result there's low liquidity(money in circulation). A perfect illustration is on VAT collection which are lower despite vat being applied on fuel https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001311160/treasury-in-revenue-targets-shifting-game.
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No evidence money in circulation has gone down. There is enough evidence that Jubilee has produced nearly 6% average growth rate that has been broad-based. For many years WB/IMF/analyst berated the gov for relying only on private sector - and when it finally got the second engine running thanks to timely chinese investment in Africa - we are now berating them.
The article you quoted was written by an idiot.
Sample that paragraph - he cannot even do basic arithmetic - monthly collection 681/5 is (136.2) nearly 140 - not 92B per month. That mean 140*12=1.680 trillion kshs or 17B dollars by end of the year
I won't even bother to look at VAT :) unless you bring something more credible.
"However, in the five months from July to December, the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), the tax-collecting agency, only raised Sh681 billion. This is just one-third of the target set.
This means that assuming the average of Sh92 billion monthly is kept up to June this year, KRA can project to only collect Sh1.1 trillion."
Precisely . The most pressing issue in kenya is production and income deficit. The fallacy that infrastructure deficit is the most urgent was parroted by jubilee so that they could inflate the cost of projects and get kickbacks. Kenya has limited resources so it behooves the government to allocate the resources to areas that can yield more return in spurring economic development. Inflated and misguided projects takes away resources from the economy. This has been jubilee economy bane, as a result there's low liquidity(money in circulation). A perfect illustration is on VAT collection which are lower despite vat being applied on fuel https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001311160/treasury-in-revenue-targets-shifting-game.
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No evidence money in circulation has gone down. There is enough evidence that Jubilee has produced nearly 6% average growth rate that has been broad-based. For many years WB/IMF/analyst berated the gov for relying only on private sector - and when it finally got the second engine running thanks to timely chinese investment in Africa - we are now berating them.
The article you quoted was written by an idiot.
Sample that paragraph - he cannot even do basic arithmetic - monthly collection 681/5 is (136.2) nearly 140 - not 92B per month. That mean 140*12=1.680 trillion kshs or 17B dollars by end of the year
I won't even bother to look at VAT :) unless you bring something more credible.
"However, in the five months from July to December, the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), the tax-collecting agency, only raised Sh681 billion. This is just one-third of the target set.
This means that assuming the average of Sh92 billion monthly is kept up to June this year, KRA can project to only collect Sh1.1 trillion."
How about info from treasury http://www.treasury.go.ke/component/jdownloads/send/200-quarterly-economic-and-budgetary-review/1304-quarterly-economic-budgetary-review-2nd-quarter-2018-2019-ending-31st-december-2018.html . If you knock out 8% vat on fuel, vat collection has gone down sequentially from last budget year . Also income collection is stagnant. Yet economy supposedly grew at 6% rate 1st quarter of this budget year.
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How did you knock out VAT 8% - do you know the figures. Last I checked we import fuel of about 2.6B dollars. So 8% of that should be about 20B annually or I am missing something.
How about info from treasury http://www.treasury.go.ke/component/jdownloads/send/200-quarterly-economic-and-budgetary-review/1304-quarterly-economic-budgetary-review-2nd-quarter-2018-2019-ending-31st-december-2018.html . If you knock out 8% vat on fuel, vat collection has gone down sequentially from last budget year . Also income collection is stagnant. Yet economy supposedly grew at 6% rate 1st quarter of this budget year.
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hk - Do you agree infrastructure has marginal utility? - and must be pared with the ability to apply.
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Let me quote the WB.
Kenya faces a significant infrastructure financing deficit estimated at $2.1 billion annually, which constrains growth and development. Sustained expenditures of almost $4 billion per year will be required to meet the country’s infrastructure needs. With public debt standing at 57 percent of GDP, this deficit cannot be met by public resources.
The World Bank Group estimates that increasing infrastructure financing could improve Kenya’s per capita growth rate by three percentage points.
https://www.worldbank.org/en/about/partners/brief/kenya-enabling-private-sector-participation-in-infrastructure-and-social-services
hk - Do you agree infrastructure has marginal utility? - and must be pared with the ability to apply.
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And Private Sector have role in Infrastructure deficit spending - see our energy/power sector - one investor like Turkana Wind - pumped in 70B kshs - we now have excess power although many investors want to continue investing there. That is the trick
WB
Building on successful experiences in its energy sector, the government is committed to mobilizing private investment in infrastructure with PPPs representing one avenue for doing so.
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WB or IMF is not omniscient - you and I are better than they. Their ESAP nonsense in the 90s... many folks lost GoK jobs for nothing.
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We can argue about the marginal utility to the econony of many stuff - but excellent roads, rails, ports, water and electricity - are out of questions. WB are for example if we expand Nairobi (Now Rironi - to Nakuru- to Mau Summit) - that road itself has potential to half the travel time - reduce accidents and of course maybe spur economic development along it.
You're in loosing argument territory. Yes WB are saying we don't have to spend public money on this if we can get private sector to chip in like they've done in power sector.
WB or IMF is not omniscient - you and I are better than they. Their ESAP nonsense in the 90s... many folks lost GoK jobs for nothing.
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When the flashy SGR breaks even I will listen to you and Ruto. And the elec unit cost goes down enough for the illiterate villagefolk. The whole Jubilee matrix - the net-sum of their mega-projects - is a big inefficient waste.
We can argue about the marginal utility to the econony of many stuff - but excellent roads, rails, ports, water and electricity - are out of questions. WB are for example if we expand Nairobi (Now Rironi - to Nakuru- to Mau Summit) - that road itself has potential to half the travel time - reduce accidents and of course maybe spur economic development along it.
You're in loosing argument territory. Yes WB are saying we don't have to spend public money on this if we can get private sector to chip in like they've done in power sector.
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Public projects don't have to ever break even. It's enough that its reducing global warming by getting trucks off the road :) and we can add reducing traffic snarl up - and maybe accidents. You see gov has esoteric objectives. They are long term. SGR will stay for 100yrs -okay make that 300yrs or forever. The old british one is still functional. Just need a little touch and love - and it will be go back to ferrying 5m metric tonnes.
When the flashy SGR breaks even I will listen to you and Ruto. And the elec unit cost goes down enough for the illiterate villagefolk. The whole Jubilee matrix - the net-sum of their mega-projects - is a big inefficient waste.
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Jubilee infrastructure in rural places like this is badly needed. Elgeyo Marakwet
(https://northriftmirror.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/mara2.jpg)
(https://scontent.fmba2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44588011_10102281477308055_7701452888073043968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fmba2-1.fna&oh=ecaaaf55d71b8d2e90e987355337de97&oe=5D072049)
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If wishes were horses... we could just sum up the appreciation of the land- and hillscapes along the grand iron snake... as SGR payback :)
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SGR is still under construction - and you want it to pay itself back? You see you and HK want the kenyan economy to grow from a very small tiny base; around Nairobi - rather than gov opening up the whole country - and growing the base - for the next generation of growth. Building infrastructure is laying the foundation of next growth - growth driven by production, consumption and savings.
Look at Elgeyo Marakwet - now with 3rd GDP per Capita - huge incredibly fertile land - that was hobbled by insecurity and lack of infrastructure - fix those - and Elgeyo Marakwet can feed kenya. Jubilee has done well - I can give you many example - even West Pokot now post of some many tarmacs - Bomet under Kibaki - managed to build only 20Kms of new tarmac - just imagine that - only 20kms of new roads in 10yrs - yes Kibaki re-built about 100kms of road that fallen apart - but Jubilee have build 300kms new tarmac in 5yrs.Nearly every county at least in RV and Western (not sure of Luo Nyanza) - are boasting of such roads.
Jubilee have build about the same length of tarmac - that Jomo, Moi & Kibaki did in 50yrs - only in 5yrs. The same with electricity. Kibaki left with about 2.5M KPLC customers - as we speak the figure is around 7M people have accounts at KPLC.
If Uhuru-Matiangi continues with good work - then there is no doubt the country can be transformed. Obviously we badly need Ruto on the driving seat - giving them the vision and the execution.
If wishes were horses... we could just sum up the appreciation of the land- and hillscapes along the grand iron snake... as SGR payback :)
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Now you're getting it.
Public projects don't have to ever break even. It's enough that its reducing global warming by getting trucks off the road :) and we can add reducing traffic snarl up - and maybe accidents. You see gov has esoteric objectives. They are long term. SGR will stay for 100yrs -okay make that 300yrs or forever. The old british one is still functional. Just need a little touch and love - and it will be go back to ferrying 5m metric tonnes.
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Our issue is that Jubilee is wasteful. Most rural roads should be murram. We are not productive enough to justify the mega spend. Galana zero. Dams zero. We deserve the best - MIRACLES - you want C, I want A+ - you cut these jokers so much free slack.
We know there are a few wins in between - free maternity, child mortality, Tivet,? - and we saw they needed no gigantic Chinese loans. for 5 TRILLION we should have paradise.
SGR is still under construction - and you want it to pay itself back? You see you and HK want the kenyan economy to grow from a very small tiny base; around Nairobi - rather than gov opening up the whole country - and growing the base - for the next generation of growth. Building infrastructure is laying the foundation of next growth - growth driven by production, consumption and savings.
Look at Elgeyo Marakwet - now with 3rd GDP per Capita - huge incredibly fertile land - that was hobbled by insecurity and lack of infrastructure - fix those - and Elgeyo Marakwet can feed kenya. Jubilee has done well - I can give you many example - even West Pokot now post of some many tarmacs - Bomet under Kibaki - managed to build only 20Kms of new tarmac - just imagine that - only 20kms of new roads in 10yrs - yes Kibaki re-built about 100kms of road that fallen apart - but Jubilee have build 300kms new tarmac in 5yrs.Nearly every county at least in RV and Western (not sure of Luo Nyanza) - are boasting of such roads.
Jubilee have build about the same length of tarmac - that Jomo, Moi & Kibaki did in 50yrs - only in 5yrs. The same with electricity. Kibaki left with about 2.5M KPLC customers - as we speak the figure is around 7M people have accounts at KPLC.
If Uhuru-Matiangi continues with good work - then there is no doubt the country can be transformed. Obviously we badly need Ruto on the driving seat - giving them the vision and the execution.
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hk - Do you agree infrastructure has marginal utility? - and must be pared with the ability to apply.
Yes I agree. Infrastructure at almost any cost has little or marginal return.