Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on November 13, 2017, 11:29:51 PM
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He wants 40 counties to secede. The exceptions seem to be Mt. Kenya counties. I think a more constructive approach would be to push for fewer counties, and a full fledged Federal system.
Apart from Mt Kenya counties of Nyeri, Murang’a, Kiambu, Kirinyaga, Nyandarua, Embu, and Tharaka-Nithi, Mr Kaluma wants all the other 40 to break away from Kenya, alleging that they have been continually discriminated upon by successive governments.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Peter-Kaluma-secession-40-counties/1064-4185586-13tcbf3z/index.html
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Makes sense
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
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No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
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No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
Pipe dream.
Also, secession would not solve the problem of tribes marginalizing other tribes. The core problems would still not be solved.
Given: PRK comes into being with Rao as presi. He'll still have his kitchen cabinet calling the shots, with their preferred tenderpreneurs taking a big chunk of scarce resources.
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I thought you wanted to secede from Kenya. I am glad you're still a kenya. If this secession nonsense will help you through the trauma of defeat. Go for it. But don't delude yourself it gonna happen. Ask NFD of Kenya - they suffered until 1990s - thro' shift wars and massacres - or ask the bozo calling themselves MRCs - now they sue for peace. If NASA regions want make their bad situation even worse let them entertain secession - they will pay a huge price for attempting to dismember kenya.
KDF job is to deal with secessionist....so you better be ready!
No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
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And see how prosperous and democratic Eritrea and South Sudan have turned out :D :D This is a brief mourning period. Before sobriety and reality return.
Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
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They have been whining about police brutality; I doubt they're ready for KDF. Where is Brigadier Odongo? I think he ran away to Sudan. Or SLDF commander Matakwei - the cannibals who were chopping people's ears in Mt Elgon - before KDF caught up with them.
I thought you wanted to secede from Kenya. I am glad you're still a kenya. If this secession nonsense will help you through the trauma of defeat. Go for it. But don't delude yourself it gonna happen. Ask NFD of Kenya - they suffered until 1990s - thro' shift wars and massacres - or ask the bozo calling themselves MRCs - now they sue for peace. If NASA regions want make their bad situation even worse let them entertain secession - they will pay a huge price for attempting to dismember kenya.
KDF job is to deal with secessionist....so you better be ready!
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
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No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
Pipe dream.
Also, secession would not solve the problem of tribes marginalizing other tribes. The core problems would still not be solved.
Given: PRK comes into being with Rao as presi. He'll still have his kitchen cabinet calling the shots, with their preferred tenderpreneurs taking a big chunk of scarce resources.
So in your opinion, the molested section of the population should cut back on their ambitions and self preservation continue suffering under the colonialism and fascism propagated by the tyranny tribes?
This is a joke.
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
.
No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
Pipe dream.
Also, secession would not solve the problem of tribes marginalizing other tribes. The core problems would still not be solved.
Given: PRK comes into being with Rao as presi. He'll still have his kitchen cabinet calling the shots, with their preferred tenderpreneurs taking a big chunk of scarce resources.
So in your opinion, the molested section of the population should cut back on their ambitions and self preservation continue suffering under the colonialism and fascism propagated by the tyranny tribes?
This is a joke.
No, not a joke.
What I'm trying to get across to the proponents of secession is that the underlying problems (one or two tribes dominating politics and the economy) will continue under the PRK. Those problems have not been dealt with and I haven't seen any proof that they are being taken seriously.
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I thought you wanted to secede from Kenya. I am glad you're still a kenya. If this secession nonsense will help you through the trauma of defeat. Go for it. But don't delude yourself it gonna happen. Ask NFD of Kenya - they suffered until 1990s - thro' shift wars and massacres - or ask the bozo calling themselves MRCs - now they sue for peace. If NASA regions want make their bad situation even worse let them entertain secession - they will pay a huge price for attempting to dismember kenya.
KDF job is to deal with secessionist....so you better be ready!
No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
Of course I am still Kenyan and will remain so until midnight on the material date of secession. I think you and other jubilidiots are residing in cloud cookoo land. Hoping to cajole the rest of the population to accept your criminality, extreme tribalsm and massive electoral fraud.
Kenya is charting a way forward that even western countries are amazed at. I guarantee you now that the Kenyan secession will not only be succesful, but it will blood free (barring violent Jubilee security apparatus exesses).
There is no amount of force that will retain a disenfranchised section of the population.
Punda imechoka nanii... keep your Central Repluc of Kenya while the rest of Kenya forges ahead. If there is marginaliation in the Peoples' Republic, why should it bother you?
Divorce Now!
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Stupidity 101.Few countries have managed to secede after waging bloody war for generations...South Sudan and Kosovo maybe.The rest including Kurdistan,Tamil,Chechnenya,Bosque,North Ireland,Western Sahara,North Mali,English Cameroon,Biafra have fought for so long with no hope in sights.They few that seceded were helped by superpower to do so..South Sudan and Kosovo.The NASA boozo are just leaking their wounds of defeat.
.
No bloodshed please, we are Kenyan! Ours will be violence free and entirely legal
Pipe dream.
Also, secession would not solve the problem of tribes marginalizing other tribes. The core problems would still not be solved.
Given: PRK comes into being with Rao as presi. He'll still have his kitchen cabinet calling the shots, with their preferred tenderpreneurs taking a big chunk of scarce resources.
So in your opinion, the molested section of the population should cut back on their ambitions and self preservation continue suffering under the colonialism and fascism propagated by the tyranny tribes?
This is a joke.
No, not a joke.
What I'm trying to get across to the proponents of secession is that the underlying problems (one or two tribes dominating politics and the economy) will continue under the PRK. Those problems have not been dealt with and I haven't seen any proof that they are being taken seriously.
Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
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When you divorce your wife- it wasn't smooth. How do you expect divorcing 30m kenyans from Kenya. It going to be nasty.
Of course I am still Kenyan and will remain so until midnight on the material date of secession. I think you and other jubilidiots are residing in cloud cookoo land. Hoping to cajole the rest of the population to accept your criminality, extreme tribalsm and massive electoral fraud.
Kenya is charting a way forward that even western countries are amazed at. I guarantee you now that the Kenyan secession will not only be succesful, but it will blood free (barring violent Jubilee security apparatus exesses).
There is no amount of force that will retain a disenfranchised section of the population.
Punda imechoka nanii... keep your Central Repluc of Kenya while the rest of Kenya forges ahead. If there is marginaliation in the Peoples' Republic, why should it bother you?
Divorce Now!
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Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
NASA rallies are just telling the people what they want to hear. It's all absolute nonsense, akin to Uhuruto's campaign promises.
Explain how a group of tribal chieftains, each speaking for their own tribe (hint: look at their kitchen cabinets, their closest confidants) and hoping said tribe gets to be the one in charge of the resources in the new Kenya are not gonna be the same thing as we have going on right now.
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When you divorce your wife- it wasn't smooth. How do you expect divorcing 30m kenyans from Kenya. It going to be nasty.
Of course I am still Kenyan and will remain so until midnight on the material date of secession. I think you and other jubilidiots are residing in cloud cookoo land. Hoping to cajole the rest of the population to accept your criminality, extreme tribalsm and massive electoral fraud.
Kenya is charting a way forward that even western countries are amazed at. I guarantee you now that the Kenyan secession will not only be succesful, but it will blood free (barring violent Jubilee security apparatus exesses).
There is no amount of force that will retain a disenfranchised section of the population.
Punda imechoka nanii... keep your Central Repluc of Kenya while the rest of Kenya forges ahead. If there is marginaliation in the Peoples' Republic, why should it bother you?
Divorce Now!
It's always the abusive partner that seeks to sour the process. In common law a divorce is usually granted when one party petitions the court. This is for a very simple reason. The court finds that the marriage is probably beyond repair if the aggreived party feels strongly enough to approach the courts with prayers to leave the marriage.
The fact that a section of the population wants to divorce the tyranny tribes, the amrriage has basically failed.
The kenyan secession will be very peaceful and orderly.
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Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
NASA rallies are just telling the people what they want to hear. It's all absolute nonsense, akin to Uhuruto's campaign promises.
Explain how a group of tribal chieftains, each speaking for their own tribe (hint: look at their kitchen cabinets, their closest confidants) and hoping said tribe gets to be the one in charge of the resources in the new Kenya are not gonna be the same thing as we have going on right now.
That's how the cookie crumbles in Kenya. Please stop ignoring the NASA drive for equity, inclusiveness, free and fair elections etc.
The tribal nreakdown has been deeply entrenched and enhanced during the tyranny tribes rule. It will be foolhardy to share a nation with such tribal, murderous, power hungry and corrupt electoral fraudsters.
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Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
NASA rallies are just telling the people what they want to hear. It's all absolute nonsense, akin to Uhuruto's campaign promises.
Explain how a group of tribal chieftains, each speaking for their own tribe (hint: look at their kitchen cabinets, their closest confidants) and hoping said tribe gets to be the one in charge of the resources in the new Kenya are not gonna be the same thing as we have going on right now.
That's how the cookie crumbles in Kenya. Please stop ignoring the NASA drive for equity, inclusiveness, free and fair elections etc.
The tribal nreakdown has been deeply entrenched and enhanced during the tyranny tribes rule. It will be foolhardy to share a nation with such tribal, murderous, power hungry and corrupt electoral fraudsters.
You still don't get it, do you?
The NASA "leaders" clamoring for secession are a direct product of our extractive political system, who believe power automatically entitles a few of their bedrock supporters (tribe mates) to prosper.
The tribal infighting would be carried over to Canaan. Just picture, say, the choice of the new finance CS in the new republic or sharing of diplomatic postings. Infighting? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Anyway, no need to go on and on about this. The NASA leadership is not and has never been for secession at all. They want the whole bread.
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Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
NASA rallies are just telling the people what they want to hear. It's all absolute nonsense, akin to Uhuruto's campaign promises.
Explain how a group of tribal chieftains, each speaking for their own tribe (hint: look at their kitchen cabinets, their closest confidants) and hoping said tribe gets to be the one in charge of the resources in the new Kenya are not gonna be the same thing as we have going on right now.
That's how the cookie crumbles in Kenya. Please stop ignoring the NASA drive for equity, inclusiveness, free and fair elections etc.
The tribal nreakdown has been deeply entrenched and enhanced during the tyranny tribes rule. It will be foolhardy to share a nation with such tribal, murderous, power hungry and corrupt electoral fraudsters.
You still don't get it, do you?
The NASA "leaders" clamoring for secession are a direct product of our extractive political system, who believe power automatically entitles a few of their bedrock supporters (tribe mates) to prosper.
The tribal infighting would be carried over to Canaan. Just picture, say, the choice of the new finance CS in the new republic or sharing of diplomatic postings. Infighting? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Anyway, no need to go on and on about this. The NASA leadership is not and has never been for secession at all. They want the whole bread.
Of course "I have you got". Whereas you are predicting "tribal wars" of the future, we are talking about tribal exclusion and ethnic cleansing taking place right now. How do you ask folks to foregore escaping today's tribal cleansing because they may fight amongst themselves in the future?
Jubilee should not concern itself with the affairs of a nation that it will not be a part of anyway. Is this an indication of a meddling neighbor in the future?
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The "peaceful" phase of the secession will end once the IEBC, parliament and the courts say No to secession. There is no legal channel to secession thanks to Jubilee stranglehold. From there you will have demos, boycotts, riots and what-not - criminalities. Over in Spain - Catalonia, once they exhausted the peaceful and legal means and achieved nothing - the whole crew is now wanted for treason. The Catalan president fled to Belgium :D where he is now fighting extradition. The Catalan speaker just managed to post €150K (~kes 18M) bail after spending a week in the cell running fundraiser :D She actually had to deny that she ever called for secession - which is treason - to be granted bail. All these in rich, civilized democratic Europe.
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Well, we are faced with two choices:
1) Go with a group that is willing to put these issues right
2) Remain with a group that have been very clear with their need to retain the status quo.
I direct you to the NASA rallies where a cross section of Kenyan tribes are spoken. It is in my view, more inclusive.
NASA rallies are just telling the people what they want to hear. It's all absolute nonsense, akin to Uhuruto's campaign promises.
Explain how a group of tribal chieftains, each speaking for their own tribe (hint: look at their kitchen cabinets, their closest confidants) and hoping said tribe gets to be the one in charge of the resources in the new Kenya are not gonna be the same thing as we have going on right now.
That's how the cookie crumbles in Kenya. Please stop ignoring the NASA drive for equity, inclusiveness, free and fair elections etc.
The tribal nreakdown has been deeply entrenched and enhanced during the tyranny tribes rule. It will be foolhardy to share a nation with such tribal, murderous, power hungry and corrupt electoral fraudsters.
You still don't get it, do you?
The NASA "leaders" clamoring for secession are a direct product of our extractive political system, who believe power automatically entitles a few of their bedrock supporters (tribe mates) to prosper.
The tribal infighting would be carried over to Canaan. Just picture, say, the choice of the new finance CS in the new republic or sharing of diplomatic postings. Infighting? You ain't seen nothing yet.
Anyway, no need to go on and on about this. The NASA leadership is not and has never been for secession at all. They want the whole bread.
Of course "I have you got". Whereas you are predicting "tribal wars" of the future, we are talking about tribal exclusion and ethnic cleansing taking place right now. How do you ask folks to foregore escaping today's tribal cleansing because they may fight amongst themselves in the future?
Jubilee should not concern itself with the affairs of a nation that it will not be a part of anyway. Is this an indication of a meddling neighbor in the future?
Who cares about Jubilee in the new republic? No one, right?
It's the new leaders you should be more concerned about, the same leaders who fight amongst themselves (i.e. Presidential nominations, broken MoU's etc.) when it comes to the new republic. They really the ones you want leading you to Canaan? Excuse me but "haha".
If your dream (nightmare?) becomes real, that's what you should be focusing on, the kind of leaders you'll have chosen to bring you "freedom and empowerment". Relics and ardent practitioners of a colonial extractive patronage system.
The secession talk is dead as a Dodo, as Robina mentions.
But it is doing one thing. It's keeping NASA supporters from interrogating their coalitions very shoddy campaign strategy which allowed the thieving duo of Uhuruto to continue what they know best.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
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Actually once Uhuru has been sworn and given the sword - expect him to slay the seccesionist without mercy. He aint running again. I think WSR will become their refuge coz of 2022 manenos. Uhuru cannot wait for him to be sworn.Some of those mps will be spending lots of time in jail.
28th Nov is when this nonsense stops.
The "peaceful" phase of the secession will end once the IEBC, parliament and the courts say No to secession. There is no legal channel to secession thanks to Jubilee stranglehold. From there you will have demos, boycotts, riots and what-not - criminalities. Over in Spain - Catalonia, once they exhausted the peaceful and legal means and achieved nothing - the whole crew is now wanted for treason. The Catalan president fled to Belgium :D where he is now fighting extradition. The Catalan speaker just managed to post €150K (~kes 18M) bail after spending a week in the cell running fundraiser :D She actually had to deny that she ever called for secession - which is treason - to be granted bail. All these in rich, civilized democratic Europe.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It thought it was a typo. Kaluma is an extremely bright negro, no idea what weed he smoked while penning the Petition.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
It's not that I don't buy that Rao lost horribly. It's that the NASA leadership knows he didn't win (not even close) and they're hiding it. That's why they're not talking numbers and were never ever interested in a manual recount.
If the problem lay in the transmission and the servers which the IEBC refused to open up, a simple recount of the ballots would have sorted the matter out. But NASA refused: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130
NASA only concentrated on the mess at the IEBC, in a country where every single institution messes up on a constant basis. Every single one.
"Listen" to what they're not talking about and ignore what they're blabbering.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
It's not that I don't buy that Rao lost horribly. It's that the NASA leadership knows he didn't win (not even close) and they're hiding it. That's why they're not talking numbers and were never ever interested in a manual recount.
If the problem lay in the transmission and the servers which the IEBC refused to open up, a simple recount of the ballots would have sorted the matter out. But NASA refused: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130 (https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130)
NASA only concentrated on the mess at the IEBC, in a country where every single institution messes up on a constant basis. Every single one.
"Listen" to what they're not talking about and ignore what they're blabbering.
I think you misunderstood me. I know and acknowledge your belief that Raila lost. I don't share it, with all due respect to the arguments you have made for it.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
It's not that I don't buy that Rao lost horribly. It's that the NASA leadership knows he didn't win (not even close) and they're hiding it. That's why they're not talking numbers and were never ever interested in a manual recount.
If the problem lay in the transmission and the servers which the IEBC refused to open up, a simple recount of the ballots would have sorted the matter out. But NASA refused: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130 (https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130)
NASA only concentrated on the mess at the IEBC, in a country where every single institution messes up on a constant basis. Every single one.
"Listen" to what they're not talking about and ignore what they're blabbering.
I think you misunderstood me. I know and acknowledge your belief that Raila lost. I don't share it, with all due respect to the arguments you have made for it.
I respect your opinion.
Glad we could exchange opinions without insults.
Have a nice day.
-
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
It's not that I don't buy that Rao lost horribly. It's that the NASA leadership knows he didn't win (not even close) and they're hiding it. That's why they're not talking numbers and were never ever interested in a manual recount.
If the problem lay in the transmission and the servers which the IEBC refused to open up, a simple recount of the ballots would have sorted the matter out. But NASA refused: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130 (https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/09/24/we-dont-want-vote-recount-iebc-must-open-servers-as-court-ordered-nasa_c1641130)
NASA only concentrated on the mess at the IEBC, in a country where every single institution messes up on a constant basis. Every single one.
"Listen" to what they're not talking about and ignore what they're blabbering.
I think you misunderstood me. I know and acknowledge your belief that Raila lost. I don't share it, with all due respect to the arguments you have made for it.
I respect your opinion.
Glad we could exchange opinions without insults.
Have a nice day.
Yeppers. Enjoy yours too.
-
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
He won in all but the 7 counties?
The idea seems to be to stretch Jubilee resources thin across almost the entire country campaigning against it during the referendum as well as drivin a wedge between GEMA and RV. Lastly, it may help in collecting the 1M signatures,making it harder to verify the same for IEBC
-
All I want to do is to bring your arrogance down a notch so that you can understand that the issue here is not a matter of intelligence or brilliance or who has a better strategy than the other. I believe those are distributed equally across the political divide. The Jubilee mafia had a brilliant strategy to maintain power for a very long time through an elaborate plan for an electoral autocracy or electoral authoritarianism. NASA is trying to fight that and NASA recognizes that it may fail and therefore NASA is also seriously considering a secession as an option. NOW one can argue that NASA will not succeed. Fair enough, however, one must understand that NASA has no other choice but to either stop electoral authoritarianism or secede. The other options have been considered and rejected. One of the most popular options offered by the "neutral intellectuals" is actually similar that offered by the western ambassadors, namely: accept, move on and prepare for 2022. Its amazing how this "neutral position" is also the position of Jubilee. Electoral Authoritarianism is a very old concept and therefore we do understand exactly what we are dealing with and are NOT as naïve as you may think.
http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176
A larger number of present political regimes in the East, Central Europe, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have established a façade of institutional democracy. An irreversible wave of democratic transition -- excluding the MENA -- has been underway for some time. The foundation is fair and free polls. Elections are the lifeblood of democracy, but not all elections are democratic, as is often the case in the Arab world in which electoral authoritarianism and subsequent violence still haunt the scene.
Electoral authoritarianism characterises regimes that present an illusion of multi-party democracy at the local and national levels while effectively stripping elections of efficacy. The result known in advance, elections can be held frequently. In Algeria, for instance, officials have been able, against all odds, to organise more than 12 polls during the civil strife that broke out when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was poised to win the 1991 and subsequently cancelled legislative elections. Under electoral authoritarian regimes, elections are subject to such state manipulation as to strip them of value. Arab officials have become very sophisticated in this. Rulers devise discriminatory electoral rules, exclude opposition forces from entering the electoral arena, and restrict what passes to the public via mass media. Means may change but the ultimate goal remains the same, electoral manipulation becoming the most stable institution upholding authoritarian rule.
The Algerian legislative elections that took place 17 May featured an unusual mobilisation of the political class. Twenty-four political parties, 12,229 candidates on 1,144 lists, and 102 independents took part in the contest. All candidates made a strong plea for "massive participation" to challenge residual terrorism in Algeria as suicide bombers linked to Al-Qaeda claimed 30 lives and stoked official fears. Mass marches across the country were scheduled to celebrate the electoral contest, but they failed to raise much public interest.
As was expected, the turnout on 17 May was very low, according to official figures not exceeding 35.6 per cent whereas it hit 65 per cent in 1997. In addition, of 6.6 million votes cast, 961,000 -- or 14.5 per cent -- were spoiled. In reality, participation did not exceed 15 per cent, the lowest in Algeria's post-colonial history and most likely in other MENA countries' histories as well. In Egypt, for example, the 2006 turnout was 20 per cent. Many believe that Algerians did not bother to turn out on elections day because candidates largely ignored key social questions. Indeed, Algerians seemingly preferred to stay at home watching, with a great passion, the French presidential elections on television
Low turnout in previous polls essentially characterised big cities and urban eras and the Great Kabylia. This time around, it spread across the whole country, touching the regime's social base of state populism. Widespread abstention, however, does not indicate that Algerians are depoliticised, contrary to claims of the elite. On the contrary, non-participation, especially in the context of the 1992 emergency law, is a last resort in opposing the politics of authoritarianism and hogra (official abuses of power). In addition, Algerian deputies are seen as politically impotent. According to official records, the executive branch initiated more than 98 per cent of legislative bills during the previous parliament. It is commonly believed that the National People's Assembly is but a rubber stamp for decisions of the executive branch.
Widespread fraud also characterised this poll, as Said Bouchair, president of the official elections watchdog, pointed out in his report to President Abdul-Aziz Bouteflika. According to Bouchair, vote rigging was not isolated. The two ruling political parties -- the National Liberation Front (FLN) and the National Democratic Rally (RND) -- benefited from voting fraud.
The FLN, which has dominated politics in Algeria since the nation won independence from France in 1962, won 136 seats against 199 seats in 2002. As such, the party was not able to secure an absolute sole majority. The FLN is under the leadership of Abdul-Aziz Belkhadem, the current prime minister who replaced in 2006 Ahmed Ouyahia, the RND's president. The RND won 61 seats against 49 in 2002 and the Islamist Movement of Society for Peace (MSP) won 52 against 38 seats in 2002. Together, the FLN, the RND and the MSP form the Presidential Alliance. Credited with ending an insurgency waged by Islamist extremists in the 1990s, during which an estimated 150,000 people were killed with infrastructural and economic damage estimated at $20 billion, the Presidential Alliance now holds 249 seats of the 389 seats in the National Assembly, 35 seats down on its 2002 overall majority.
Various independents collected 33 seats, although they are not really independents. A great number are active operatives in the Presidential Alliance. The radical left Workers' Party (PT), a Trotskyite group lead by Louiza Hannoune, won 26 seats, up five seats from 2002. Hannoune's partnership with President Bouteflika helped safeguard her parliamentary group. Unlike the PT, the secular Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD), lead by Said Sadi and who boycotted the previous election, did not succeed in securing the 20 seats necessary to set up a parliamentary group. The RCD was only accredited with 19 seats, although the party attracted a considerable number of adherents during the campaign. Last but not least, women's representation decreased by five seats compared to 2002, seen by many as a result of the rise of constitutional Islamism.
Although armed conflict between Islamist groups and state security forces hit the news throughout the 1990s, Algerian Islamism is still little known today. While the FIS remains banned, Algeria has three legal Islamist parties that have participated both in government and in the National Assembly. It is worth noting that Islamist parties in Algeria prefer to refer to themselves as "Muslim democrats", an allusion to "Christian democrats" in the European context. In addition to the 52 seats won by the MSP, the Islamist Ennahda movement secured five seats while El-Islah took only 3 seats whereas it won 43 seats in 2002. If we take into account "hidden" Islamist candidates within the FLN and among independents, the Islamist vote is accredited 15-18 per cent overall.
In sum, 22 political parties out of 24 that took part to this poll -- including the Communist Party that participated for the first time -- have representation in the new National People's Assembly. Within that distribution there is no single party that has the upper hand. This augurs forthcoming political struggles, especially centred on the 2009 presidential elections, preparations for which already started during the latest campaign.
President Bouteflika will not run for a third term for health reasons, although this may change and an amended text of the constitution exists already and could be approved by referendum to allow for a third term. Belkhadem, regarded as an Islamist, and Ahmed Ouyahia, seen as an accomplished technocrat, look set to vie for the top position. So far, Ouyahia, the prime minister who brought into force an IMF- World Bank structural adjustment programme for Algeria, appears favoured to be Algeria's future head of state. Meanwhile, the militarist elite hopes that "elections without democracy" will be the magic wand to end the legitimacy crisis facing Algeria. Time will tell.
* The writer is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Centre, Beirut.
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
He won in all but the 7 counties?
The idea seems to be to stretch Jubilee resources thin across almost the entire country campaigning against it during the referendum as well as drivin a wedge between GEMA and RV. Lastly, it may help in collecting the 1M signatures,making it harder to verify the same for IEBC
No. I think he lost in quite a bit more than 7 counties. It sucks that I will never know. It makes sense, the argument that it is to stretch the jubilant. Or shoot for the sky and land somewhere high, not necessarily the sky.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
He won in all but the 7 counties?
The idea seems to be to stretch Jubilee resources thin across almost the entire country campaigning against it during the referendum as well as drivin a wedge between GEMA and RV. Lastly, it may help in collecting the 1M signatures,making it harder to verify the same for IEBC
No. I think he lost in quite a bit more than 7 counties. It sucks that I will never know.
I may have missed your sarcasm or poor attempt at it.
Did you say you think the 40 v 7 Petition looks sober because you believe Babu won in August?
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
My view is informed by the belief that Raila likely won August 8th. I know you don't buy that. So your view probably makes sense to you. But that belief is a context I cannot ignore, no matter how dumb or not Raila/NASA is.
Given that position, there is only one way in which I can see this secession thing as dumb. The fact that it ultimately must rely on the same IEBC to determine that a referendum should be held, and to actually conduct one.
He won in all but the 7 counties?
The idea seems to be to stretch Jubilee resources thin across almost the entire country campaigning against it during the referendum as well as drivin a wedge between GEMA and RV. Lastly, it may help in collecting the 1M signatures,making it harder to verify the same for IEBC
No. I think he lost in quite a bit more than 7 counties. It sucks that I will never know.
I may have missed your sarcasm or poor attempt at it.
Did you say you think the 40 v 7 Petition looks sober because you believe Babu won in August?
Read my exchange with Empedocles. That way you can ask something relevant.
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This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
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This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
Lol
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This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
With all due respect, this is shockingly stupid.
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Absolutely, if JEBC runs the referendum.
This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
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I'd vote for it.
Absolutely, if JEBC runs the referendum.
-
All I want to do is to bring your arrogance down a notch so that you can understand that the issue here is not a matter of intelligence or brilliance or who has a better strategy than the other. I believe those are distributed equally across the political divide. The Jubilee mafia had a brilliant strategy to maintain power for a very long time through an elaborate plan for an electoral autocracy or electoral authoritarianism. NASA is trying to fight that and NASA recognizes that it may fail and therefore NASA is also seriously considering a secession as an option. NOW one can argue that NASA will not succeed. Fair enough, however, one must understand that NASA has no other choice but to either stop electoral authoritarianism or secede. The other options have been considered and rejected. One of the most popular options offered by the "neutral intellectuals" is actually similar that offered by the western ambassadors, namely: accept, move on and prepare for 2022. Its amazing how this "neutral position" is also the position of Jubilee. Electoral Authoritarianism is a very old concept and therefore we do understand exactly what we are dealing with and are NOT as naïve as you may think.
http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176
A larger number of present political regimes in the East, Central Europe, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have established a façade of institutional democracy. An irreversible wave of democratic transition -- excluding the MENA -- has been underway for some time. The foundation is fair and free polls. Elections are the lifeblood of democracy, but not all elections are democratic, as is often the case in the Arab world in which electoral authoritarianism and subsequent violence still haunt the scene.
Electoral authoritarianism characterises regimes that present an illusion of multi-party democracy at the local and national levels while effectively stripping elections of efficacy. The result known in advance, elections can be held frequently. In Algeria, for instance, officials have been able, against all odds, to organise more than 12 polls during the civil strife that broke out when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was poised to win the 1991 and subsequently cancelled legislative elections. Under electoral authoritarian regimes, elections are subject to such state manipulation as to strip them of value. Arab officials have become very sophisticated in this. Rulers devise discriminatory electoral rules, exclude opposition forces from entering the electoral arena, and restrict what passes to the public via mass media. Means may change but the ultimate goal remains the same, electoral manipulation becoming the most stable institution upholding authoritarian rule.
The Algerian legislative elections that took place 17 May featured an unusual mobilisation of the political class. Twenty-four political parties, 12,229 candidates on 1,144 lists, and 102 independents took part in the contest. All candidates made a strong plea for "massive participation" to challenge residual terrorism in Algeria as suicide bombers linked to Al-Qaeda claimed 30 lives and stoked official fears. Mass marches across the country were scheduled to celebrate the electoral contest, but they failed to raise much public interest.
As was expected, the turnout on 17 May was very low, according to official figures not exceeding 35.6 per cent whereas it hit 65 per cent in 1997. In addition, of 6.6 million votes cast, 961,000 -- or 14.5 per cent -- were spoiled. In reality, participation did not exceed 15 per cent, the lowest in Algeria's post-colonial history and most likely in other MENA countries' histories as well. In Egypt, for example, the 2006 turnout was 20 per cent. Many believe that Algerians did not bother to turn out on elections day because candidates largely ignored key social questions. Indeed, Algerians seemingly preferred to stay at home watching, with a great passion, the French presidential elections on television
Low turnout in previous polls essentially characterised big cities and urban eras and the Great Kabylia. This time around, it spread across the whole country, touching the regime's social base of state populism. Widespread abstention, however, does not indicate that Algerians are depoliticised, contrary to claims of the elite. On the contrary, non-participation, especially in the context of the 1992 emergency law, is a last resort in opposing the politics of authoritarianism and hogra (official abuses of power). In addition, Algerian deputies are seen as politically impotent. According to official records, the executive branch initiated more than 98 per cent of legislative bills during the previous parliament. It is commonly believed that the National People's Assembly is but a rubber stamp for decisions of the executive branch.
Widespread fraud also characterised this poll, as Said Bouchair, president of the official elections watchdog, pointed out in his report to President Abdul-Aziz Bouteflika. According to Bouchair, vote rigging was not isolated. The two ruling political parties -- the National Liberation Front (FLN) and the National Democratic Rally (RND) -- benefited from voting fraud.
The FLN, which has dominated politics in Algeria since the nation won independence from France in 1962, won 136 seats against 199 seats in 2002. As such, the party was not able to secure an absolute sole majority. The FLN is under the leadership of Abdul-Aziz Belkhadem, the current prime minister who replaced in 2006 Ahmed Ouyahia, the RND's president. The RND won 61 seats against 49 in 2002 and the Islamist Movement of Society for Peace (MSP) won 52 against 38 seats in 2002. Together, the FLN, the RND and the MSP form the Presidential Alliance. Credited with ending an insurgency waged by Islamist extremists in the 1990s, during which an estimated 150,000 people were killed with infrastructural and economic damage estimated at $20 billion, the Presidential Alliance now holds 249 seats of the 389 seats in the National Assembly, 35 seats down on its 2002 overall majority.
Various independents collected 33 seats, although they are not really independents. A great number are active operatives in the Presidential Alliance. The radical left Workers' Party (PT), a Trotskyite group lead by Louiza Hannoune, won 26 seats, up five seats from 2002. Hannoune's partnership with President Bouteflika helped safeguard her parliamentary group. Unlike the PT, the secular Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD), lead by Said Sadi and who boycotted the previous election, did not succeed in securing the 20 seats necessary to set up a parliamentary group. The RCD was only accredited with 19 seats, although the party attracted a considerable number of adherents during the campaign. Last but not least, women's representation decreased by five seats compared to 2002, seen by many as a result of the rise of constitutional Islamism.
Although armed conflict between Islamist groups and state security forces hit the news throughout the 1990s, Algerian Islamism is still little known today. While the FIS remains banned, Algeria has three legal Islamist parties that have participated both in government and in the National Assembly. It is worth noting that Islamist parties in Algeria prefer to refer to themselves as "Muslim democrats", an allusion to "Christian democrats" in the European context. In addition to the 52 seats won by the MSP, the Islamist Ennahda movement secured five seats while El-Islah took only 3 seats whereas it won 43 seats in 2002. If we take into account "hidden" Islamist candidates within the FLN and among independents, the Islamist vote is accredited 15-18 per cent overall.
In sum, 22 political parties out of 24 that took part to this poll -- including the Communist Party that participated for the first time -- have representation in the new National People's Assembly. Within that distribution there is no single party that has the upper hand. This augurs forthcoming political struggles, especially centred on the 2009 presidential elections, preparations for which already started during the latest campaign.
President Bouteflika will not run for a third term for health reasons, although this may change and an amended text of the constitution exists already and could be approved by referendum to allow for a third term. Belkhadem, regarded as an Islamist, and Ahmed Ouyahia, seen as an accomplished technocrat, look set to vie for the top position. So far, Ouyahia, the prime minister who brought into force an IMF- World Bank structural adjustment programme for Algeria, appears favoured to be Algeria's future head of state. Meanwhile, the militarist elite hopes that "elections without democracy" will be the magic wand to end the legitimacy crisis facing Algeria. Time will tell.
* The writer is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Centre, Beirut.
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.
(https://donnamarie93.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/forrestgumpallihavetosay.jpg)
Let's see what happens going forward.
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(https://s33.postimg.org/rznhkv6e7/797_DE795-5_D7_B-4578-9140-289_C04_FCF9_E4.jpg)
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All I want to do is to bring your arrogance down a notch so that you can understand that the issue here is not a matter of intelligence or brilliance or who has a better strategy than the other. I believe those are distributed equally across the political divide. The Jubilee mafia had a brilliant strategy to maintain power for a very long time through an elaborate plan for an electoral autocracy or electoral authoritarianism. NASA is trying to fight that and NASA recognizes that it may fail and therefore NASA is also seriously considering a secession as an option. NOW one can argue that NASA will not succeed. Fair enough, however, one must understand that NASA has no other choice but to either stop electoral authoritarianism or secede. The other options have been considered and rejected. One of the most popular options offered by the "neutral intellectuals" is actually similar that offered by the western ambassadors, namely: accept, move on and prepare for 2022. Its amazing how this "neutral position" is also the position of Jubilee. Electoral Authoritarianism is a very old concept and therefore we do understand exactly what we are dealing with and are NOT as naïve as you may think.
http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176
A larger number of present political regimes in the East, Central Europe, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have established a façade of institutional democracy. An irreversible wave of democratic transition -- excluding the MENA -- has been underway for some time. The foundation is fair and free polls. Elections are the lifeblood of democracy, but not all elections are democratic, as is often the case in the Arab world in which electoral authoritarianism and subsequent violence still haunt the scene.
Electoral authoritarianism characterises regimes that present an illusion of multi-party democracy at the local and national levels while effectively stripping elections of efficacy. The result known in advance, elections can be held frequently. In Algeria, for instance, officials have been able, against all odds, to organise more than 12 polls during the civil strife that broke out when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was poised to win the 1991 and subsequently cancelled legislative elections. Under electoral authoritarian regimes, elections are subject to such state manipulation as to strip them of value. Arab officials have become very sophisticated in this. Rulers devise discriminatory electoral rules, exclude opposition forces from entering the electoral arena, and restrict what passes to the public via mass media. Means may change but the ultimate goal remains the same, electoral manipulation becoming the most stable institution upholding authoritarian rule.
The Algerian legislative elections that took place 17 May featured an unusual mobilisation of the political class. Twenty-four political parties, 12,229 candidates on 1,144 lists, and 102 independents took part in the contest. All candidates made a strong plea for "massive participation" to challenge residual terrorism in Algeria as suicide bombers linked to Al-Qaeda claimed 30 lives and stoked official fears. Mass marches across the country were scheduled to celebrate the electoral contest, but they failed to raise much public interest.
As was expected, the turnout on 17 May was very low, according to official figures not exceeding 35.6 per cent whereas it hit 65 per cent in 1997. In addition, of 6.6 million votes cast, 961,000 -- or 14.5 per cent -- were spoiled. In reality, participation did not exceed 15 per cent, the lowest in Algeria's post-colonial history and most likely in other MENA countries' histories as well. In Egypt, for example, the 2006 turnout was 20 per cent. Many believe that Algerians did not bother to turn out on elections day because candidates largely ignored key social questions. Indeed, Algerians seemingly preferred to stay at home watching, with a great passion, the French presidential elections on television
Low turnout in previous polls essentially characterised big cities and urban eras and the Great Kabylia. This time around, it spread across the whole country, touching the regime's social base of state populism. Widespread abstention, however, does not indicate that Algerians are depoliticised, contrary to claims of the elite. On the contrary, non-participation, especially in the context of the 1992 emergency law, is a last resort in opposing the politics of authoritarianism and hogra (official abuses of power). In addition, Algerian deputies are seen as politically impotent. According to official records, the executive branch initiated more than 98 per cent of legislative bills during the previous parliament. It is commonly believed that the National People's Assembly is but a rubber stamp for decisions of the executive branch.
Widespread fraud also characterised this poll, as Said Bouchair, president of the official elections watchdog, pointed out in his report to President Abdul-Aziz Bouteflika. According to Bouchair, vote rigging was not isolated. The two ruling political parties -- the National Liberation Front (FLN) and the National Democratic Rally (RND) -- benefited from voting fraud.
The FLN, which has dominated politics in Algeria since the nation won independence from France in 1962, won 136 seats against 199 seats in 2002. As such, the party was not able to secure an absolute sole majority. The FLN is under the leadership of Abdul-Aziz Belkhadem, the current prime minister who replaced in 2006 Ahmed Ouyahia, the RND's president. The RND won 61 seats against 49 in 2002 and the Islamist Movement of Society for Peace (MSP) won 52 against 38 seats in 2002. Together, the FLN, the RND and the MSP form the Presidential Alliance. Credited with ending an insurgency waged by Islamist extremists in the 1990s, during which an estimated 150,000 people were killed with infrastructural and economic damage estimated at $20 billion, the Presidential Alliance now holds 249 seats of the 389 seats in the National Assembly, 35 seats down on its 2002 overall majority.
Various independents collected 33 seats, although they are not really independents. A great number are active operatives in the Presidential Alliance. The radical left Workers' Party (PT), a Trotskyite group lead by Louiza Hannoune, won 26 seats, up five seats from 2002. Hannoune's partnership with President Bouteflika helped safeguard her parliamentary group. Unlike the PT, the secular Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD), lead by Said Sadi and who boycotted the previous election, did not succeed in securing the 20 seats necessary to set up a parliamentary group. The RCD was only accredited with 19 seats, although the party attracted a considerable number of adherents during the campaign. Last but not least, women's representation decreased by five seats compared to 2002, seen by many as a result of the rise of constitutional Islamism.
Although armed conflict between Islamist groups and state security forces hit the news throughout the 1990s, Algerian Islamism is still little known today. While the FIS remains banned, Algeria has three legal Islamist parties that have participated both in government and in the National Assembly. It is worth noting that Islamist parties in Algeria prefer to refer to themselves as "Muslim democrats", an allusion to "Christian democrats" in the European context. In addition to the 52 seats won by the MSP, the Islamist Ennahda movement secured five seats while El-Islah took only 3 seats whereas it won 43 seats in 2002. If we take into account "hidden" Islamist candidates within the FLN and among independents, the Islamist vote is accredited 15-18 per cent overall.
In sum, 22 political parties out of 24 that took part to this poll -- including the Communist Party that participated for the first time -- have representation in the new National People's Assembly. Within that distribution there is no single party that has the upper hand. This augurs forthcoming political struggles, especially centred on the 2009 presidential elections, preparations for which already started during the latest campaign.
President Bouteflika will not run for a third term for health reasons, although this may change and an amended text of the constitution exists already and could be approved by referendum to allow for a third term. Belkhadem, regarded as an Islamist, and Ahmed Ouyahia, seen as an accomplished technocrat, look set to vie for the top position. So far, Ouyahia, the prime minister who brought into force an IMF- World Bank structural adjustment programme for Algeria, appears favoured to be Algeria's future head of state. Meanwhile, the militarist elite hopes that "elections without democracy" will be the magic wand to end the legitimacy crisis facing Algeria. Time will tell.
* The writer is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Centre, Beirut.
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.
(https://donnamarie93.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/forrestgumpallihavetosay.jpg)
Let's see what happens going forward.
If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with 2007 because that is when the rain started beating us.
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All I want to do is to bring your arrogance down a notch so that you can understand that the issue here is not a matter of intelligence or brilliance or who has a better strategy than the other. I believe those are distributed equally across the political divide. The Jubilee mafia had a brilliant strategy to maintain power for a very long time through an elaborate plan for an electoral autocracy or electoral authoritarianism. NASA is trying to fight that and NASA recognizes that it may fail and therefore NASA is also seriously considering a secession as an option. NOW one can argue that NASA will not succeed. Fair enough, however, one must understand that NASA has no other choice but to either stop electoral authoritarianism or secede. The other options have been considered and rejected. One of the most popular options offered by the "neutral intellectuals" is actually similar that offered by the western ambassadors, namely: accept, move on and prepare for 2022. Its amazing how this "neutral position" is also the position of Jubilee. Electoral Authoritarianism is a very old concept and therefore we do understand exactly what we are dealing with and are NOT as naïve as you may think.
http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176
A larger number of present political regimes in the East, Central Europe, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have established a façade of institutional democracy. An irreversible wave of democratic transition -- excluding the MENA -- has been underway for some time. The foundation is fair and free polls. Elections are the lifeblood of democracy, but not all elections are democratic, as is often the case in the Arab world in which electoral authoritarianism and subsequent violence still haunt the scene.
Electoral authoritarianism characterises regimes that present an illusion of multi-party democracy at the local and national levels while effectively stripping elections of efficacy. The result known in advance, elections can be held frequently. In Algeria, for instance, officials have been able, against all odds, to organise more than 12 polls during the civil strife that broke out when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was poised to win the 1991 and subsequently cancelled legislative elections. Under electoral authoritarian regimes, elections are subject to such state manipulation as to strip them of value. Arab officials have become very sophisticated in this. Rulers devise discriminatory electoral rules, exclude opposition forces from entering the electoral arena, and restrict what passes to the public via mass media. Means may change but the ultimate goal remains the same, electoral manipulation becoming the most stable institution upholding authoritarian rule.
The Algerian legislative elections that took place 17 May featured an unusual mobilisation of the political class. Twenty-four political parties, 12,229 candidates on 1,144 lists, and 102 independents took part in the contest. All candidates made a strong plea for "massive participation" to challenge residual terrorism in Algeria as suicide bombers linked to Al-Qaeda claimed 30 lives and stoked official fears. Mass marches across the country were scheduled to celebrate the electoral contest, but they failed to raise much public interest.
As was expected, the turnout on 17 May was very low, according to official figures not exceeding 35.6 per cent whereas it hit 65 per cent in 1997. In addition, of 6.6 million votes cast, 961,000 -- or 14.5 per cent -- were spoiled. In reality, participation did not exceed 15 per cent, the lowest in Algeria's post-colonial history and most likely in other MENA countries' histories as well. In Egypt, for example, the 2006 turnout was 20 per cent. Many believe that Algerians did not bother to turn out on elections day because candidates largely ignored key social questions. Indeed, Algerians seemingly preferred to stay at home watching, with a great passion, the French presidential elections on television
Low turnout in previous polls essentially characterised big cities and urban eras and the Great Kabylia. This time around, it spread across the whole country, touching the regime's social base of state populism. Widespread abstention, however, does not indicate that Algerians are depoliticised, contrary to claims of the elite. On the contrary, non-participation, especially in the context of the 1992 emergency law, is a last resort in opposing the politics of authoritarianism and hogra (official abuses of power). In addition, Algerian deputies are seen as politically impotent. According to official records, the executive branch initiated more than 98 per cent of legislative bills during the previous parliament. It is commonly believed that the National People's Assembly is but a rubber stamp for decisions of the executive branch.
Widespread fraud also characterised this poll, as Said Bouchair, president of the official elections watchdog, pointed out in his report to President Abdul-Aziz Bouteflika. According to Bouchair, vote rigging was not isolated. The two ruling political parties -- the National Liberation Front (FLN) and the National Democratic Rally (RND) -- benefited from voting fraud.
The FLN, which has dominated politics in Algeria since the nation won independence from France in 1962, won 136 seats against 199 seats in 2002. As such, the party was not able to secure an absolute sole majority. The FLN is under the leadership of Abdul-Aziz Belkhadem, the current prime minister who replaced in 2006 Ahmed Ouyahia, the RND's president. The RND won 61 seats against 49 in 2002 and the Islamist Movement of Society for Peace (MSP) won 52 against 38 seats in 2002. Together, the FLN, the RND and the MSP form the Presidential Alliance. Credited with ending an insurgency waged by Islamist extremists in the 1990s, during which an estimated 150,000 people were killed with infrastructural and economic damage estimated at $20 billion, the Presidential Alliance now holds 249 seats of the 389 seats in the National Assembly, 35 seats down on its 2002 overall majority.
Various independents collected 33 seats, although they are not really independents. A great number are active operatives in the Presidential Alliance. The radical left Workers' Party (PT), a Trotskyite group lead by Louiza Hannoune, won 26 seats, up five seats from 2002. Hannoune's partnership with President Bouteflika helped safeguard her parliamentary group. Unlike the PT, the secular Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD), lead by Said Sadi and who boycotted the previous election, did not succeed in securing the 20 seats necessary to set up a parliamentary group. The RCD was only accredited with 19 seats, although the party attracted a considerable number of adherents during the campaign. Last but not least, women's representation decreased by five seats compared to 2002, seen by many as a result of the rise of constitutional Islamism.
Although armed conflict between Islamist groups and state security forces hit the news throughout the 1990s, Algerian Islamism is still little known today. While the FIS remains banned, Algeria has three legal Islamist parties that have participated both in government and in the National Assembly. It is worth noting that Islamist parties in Algeria prefer to refer to themselves as "Muslim democrats", an allusion to "Christian democrats" in the European context. In addition to the 52 seats won by the MSP, the Islamist Ennahda movement secured five seats while El-Islah took only 3 seats whereas it won 43 seats in 2002. If we take into account "hidden" Islamist candidates within the FLN and among independents, the Islamist vote is accredited 15-18 per cent overall.
In sum, 22 political parties out of 24 that took part to this poll -- including the Communist Party that participated for the first time -- have representation in the new National People's Assembly. Within that distribution there is no single party that has the upper hand. This augurs forthcoming political struggles, especially centred on the 2009 presidential elections, preparations for which already started during the latest campaign.
President Bouteflika will not run for a third term for health reasons, although this may change and an amended text of the constitution exists already and could be approved by referendum to allow for a third term. Belkhadem, regarded as an Islamist, and Ahmed Ouyahia, seen as an accomplished technocrat, look set to vie for the top position. So far, Ouyahia, the prime minister who brought into force an IMF- World Bank structural adjustment programme for Algeria, appears favoured to be Algeria's future head of state. Meanwhile, the militarist elite hopes that "elections without democracy" will be the magic wand to end the legitimacy crisis facing Algeria. Time will tell.
* The writer is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Centre, Beirut.
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.
(https://donnamarie93.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/forrestgumpallihavetosay.jpg)
Let's see what happens going forward.
If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with 2007 because without 2007, because that is when the rain started beating us.
I was in the thick of things in 2007, for ODM.
The planning and execution of the ODM campaign was topnotch, until Aug./Sept. 2007 when carelessness by Ruto (repeated afterwards by Rao) seeped in.
Kibaki never planned to run but a few of Ruto's careless remarks forced him to quickly cobble up PNU, start late campaigns, and finally steal the elections (I'm not judging).
Anyway, that's a story for another day.
-
All I want to do is to bring your arrogance down a notch so that you can understand that the issue here is not a matter of intelligence or brilliance or who has a better strategy than the other. I believe those are distributed equally across the political divide. The Jubilee mafia had a brilliant strategy to maintain power for a very long time through an elaborate plan for an electoral autocracy or electoral authoritarianism. NASA is trying to fight that and NASA recognizes that it may fail and therefore NASA is also seriously considering a secession as an option. NOW one can argue that NASA will not succeed. Fair enough, however, one must understand that NASA has no other choice but to either stop electoral authoritarianism or secede. The other options have been considered and rejected. One of the most popular options offered by the "neutral intellectuals" is actually similar that offered by the western ambassadors, namely: accept, move on and prepare for 2022. Its amazing how this "neutral position" is also the position of Jubilee. Electoral Authoritarianism is a very old concept and therefore we do understand exactly what we are dealing with and are NOT as naïve as you may think.
http://carnegieendowment.org/2007/05/29/electoral-authoritarianism-pub-19176
A larger number of present political regimes in the East, Central Europe, Eurasia, Latin America and the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have established a façade of institutional democracy. An irreversible wave of democratic transition -- excluding the MENA -- has been underway for some time. The foundation is fair and free polls. Elections are the lifeblood of democracy, but not all elections are democratic, as is often the case in the Arab world in which electoral authoritarianism and subsequent violence still haunt the scene.
Electoral authoritarianism characterises regimes that present an illusion of multi-party democracy at the local and national levels while effectively stripping elections of efficacy. The result known in advance, elections can be held frequently. In Algeria, for instance, officials have been able, against all odds, to organise more than 12 polls during the civil strife that broke out when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) was poised to win the 1991 and subsequently cancelled legislative elections. Under electoral authoritarian regimes, elections are subject to such state manipulation as to strip them of value. Arab officials have become very sophisticated in this. Rulers devise discriminatory electoral rules, exclude opposition forces from entering the electoral arena, and restrict what passes to the public via mass media. Means may change but the ultimate goal remains the same, electoral manipulation becoming the most stable institution upholding authoritarian rule.
The Algerian legislative elections that took place 17 May featured an unusual mobilisation of the political class. Twenty-four political parties, 12,229 candidates on 1,144 lists, and 102 independents took part in the contest. All candidates made a strong plea for "massive participation" to challenge residual terrorism in Algeria as suicide bombers linked to Al-Qaeda claimed 30 lives and stoked official fears. Mass marches across the country were scheduled to celebrate the electoral contest, but they failed to raise much public interest.
As was expected, the turnout on 17 May was very low, according to official figures not exceeding 35.6 per cent whereas it hit 65 per cent in 1997. In addition, of 6.6 million votes cast, 961,000 -- or 14.5 per cent -- were spoiled. In reality, participation did not exceed 15 per cent, the lowest in Algeria's post-colonial history and most likely in other MENA countries' histories as well. In Egypt, for example, the 2006 turnout was 20 per cent. Many believe that Algerians did not bother to turn out on elections day because candidates largely ignored key social questions. Indeed, Algerians seemingly preferred to stay at home watching, with a great passion, the French presidential elections on television
Low turnout in previous polls essentially characterised big cities and urban eras and the Great Kabylia. This time around, it spread across the whole country, touching the regime's social base of state populism. Widespread abstention, however, does not indicate that Algerians are depoliticised, contrary to claims of the elite. On the contrary, non-participation, especially in the context of the 1992 emergency law, is a last resort in opposing the politics of authoritarianism and hogra (official abuses of power). In addition, Algerian deputies are seen as politically impotent. According to official records, the executive branch initiated more than 98 per cent of legislative bills during the previous parliament. It is commonly believed that the National People's Assembly is but a rubber stamp for decisions of the executive branch.
Widespread fraud also characterised this poll, as Said Bouchair, president of the official elections watchdog, pointed out in his report to President Abdul-Aziz Bouteflika. According to Bouchair, vote rigging was not isolated. The two ruling political parties -- the National Liberation Front (FLN) and the National Democratic Rally (RND) -- benefited from voting fraud.
The FLN, which has dominated politics in Algeria since the nation won independence from France in 1962, won 136 seats against 199 seats in 2002. As such, the party was not able to secure an absolute sole majority. The FLN is under the leadership of Abdul-Aziz Belkhadem, the current prime minister who replaced in 2006 Ahmed Ouyahia, the RND's president. The RND won 61 seats against 49 in 2002 and the Islamist Movement of Society for Peace (MSP) won 52 against 38 seats in 2002. Together, the FLN, the RND and the MSP form the Presidential Alliance. Credited with ending an insurgency waged by Islamist extremists in the 1990s, during which an estimated 150,000 people were killed with infrastructural and economic damage estimated at $20 billion, the Presidential Alliance now holds 249 seats of the 389 seats in the National Assembly, 35 seats down on its 2002 overall majority.
Various independents collected 33 seats, although they are not really independents. A great number are active operatives in the Presidential Alliance. The radical left Workers' Party (PT), a Trotskyite group lead by Louiza Hannoune, won 26 seats, up five seats from 2002. Hannoune's partnership with President Bouteflika helped safeguard her parliamentary group. Unlike the PT, the secular Rally for Culture and Democracy (RCD), lead by Said Sadi and who boycotted the previous election, did not succeed in securing the 20 seats necessary to set up a parliamentary group. The RCD was only accredited with 19 seats, although the party attracted a considerable number of adherents during the campaign. Last but not least, women's representation decreased by five seats compared to 2002, seen by many as a result of the rise of constitutional Islamism.
Although armed conflict between Islamist groups and state security forces hit the news throughout the 1990s, Algerian Islamism is still little known today. While the FIS remains banned, Algeria has three legal Islamist parties that have participated both in government and in the National Assembly. It is worth noting that Islamist parties in Algeria prefer to refer to themselves as "Muslim democrats", an allusion to "Christian democrats" in the European context. In addition to the 52 seats won by the MSP, the Islamist Ennahda movement secured five seats while El-Islah took only 3 seats whereas it won 43 seats in 2002. If we take into account "hidden" Islamist candidates within the FLN and among independents, the Islamist vote is accredited 15-18 per cent overall.
In sum, 22 political parties out of 24 that took part to this poll -- including the Communist Party that participated for the first time -- have representation in the new National People's Assembly. Within that distribution there is no single party that has the upper hand. This augurs forthcoming political struggles, especially centred on the 2009 presidential elections, preparations for which already started during the latest campaign.
President Bouteflika will not run for a third term for health reasons, although this may change and an amended text of the constitution exists already and could be approved by referendum to allow for a third term. Belkhadem, regarded as an Islamist, and Ahmed Ouyahia, seen as an accomplished technocrat, look set to vie for the top position. So far, Ouyahia, the prime minister who brought into force an IMF- World Bank structural adjustment programme for Algeria, appears favoured to be Algeria's future head of state. Meanwhile, the militarist elite hopes that "elections without democracy" will be the magic wand to end the legitimacy crisis facing Algeria. Time will tell.
* The writer is a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Middle East Centre, Beirut.
The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
It's not odd if you realize, as I tried explaining to the NASA supporters here, that the NASA leadership isn't interested in secession. They want to negotiate with their comrades-in-arms. Basta!
It's a dumb bargaining tool. Dull as it is, tis just a tool nonetheless, like the purported swearing in, 1 million (wo)man march, people's assembly, the failing boycott, NRM, etc. Just throwing anything hoping something will finally stick and bring The House of Cartels (Uhuruto) down so they can take over or at the very least eat together.
Wow! Your level of arrogance and condescension is shooting like a rocket into the stratosphere. You must really be proud of how big your brain is to be able to figure out all these things which we lowly NASA supporters are completely oblivious of.
Thank you for your kind words but no, I think you're likely to be more intelligent than I could every hope to be.
But I'm not willing to believe any of these scoundrels.
Have a nice day and peace brother.
I'll sign off by saying I believe that NASA really should have won in 2013 & 2017 but messed it up themselves.
(https://donnamarie93.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/forrestgumpallihavetosay.jpg)
Let's see what happens going forward.
If you really want to understand the working of the NASA mind you have to start with 2007 because without 2007, because that is when the rain started beating us.
I was in the thick of things in 2007, for ODM.
The planning and execution of the ODM campaign was topnotch, until Aug./Sept. 2007 when carelessness by Ruto (repeated afterwards by Rao) seeped in.
Kibaki never planned to run but a few of Ruto's careless remarks forced him to quickly cobble up PNU, start late campaigns, and finally steal the elections (I'm not judging).
Anyway, that's a story for another day.
stealing is stealing whether the robber found the door wide open or whether the robber had to break in to steal. 2007 was therefore the genesis of this electoral authoritarianism that was perfected in 2013, 2017 and will be even more sophisticated in 2022 if not stopped. NASA has assigned itself the task to stop it and is very aware of how hard its going to be and that is why it must take an extraordinarily hardline including secession. Some people think that secession is very possible, some think that it's impossible, a red herring, a joke, etc. All I can say is that, its a big country and all these views are all within the range of reason. What I can say is that whatever you think of it, in the NASA rallies, secession gets the biggest applause. Both the politicians and intellectuals have noticed and are starting to come to terms with it.
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Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.
Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.
The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.
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Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.
Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.
The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.
It's like watching a real life version of the old school game Lemmings, following the leader off a cliff.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/uRxRLxPbtKf28/giphy.gif)
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Referendum to evict the Luo from Kenya... this must be a counter to the Kaluma nonsense. I think any secession idea is stupid even as a bargain tool. Especially when the premise is cyclic election or makeshift coalition. It's better to cite drought as the reason.
This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Referendum to evict the Luo from Kenya... this must be a counter to the Kaluma nonsense. I think any secession idea is stupid even as a bargain tool. Especially when the premise is cyclic election or makeshift coalition. It's better to cite drought as the reason.
This one can win in a referendum :)
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001260218/jubilee-activist-wants-luo-nyanza-removed-from-the-map-of-kenya-in-draft-bill
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Kichwa the Kaluma and MakOdingo bills - and the fake maps being circulated - tell us this is a silly political game.
If you seceded in 2007/8 the map would have been Kamba+Gema v Luo+Kalenjin
1997 - Mijikenda+Kamba+Kalenjin v Gema+Luo
Today - Mijikenda+Luo v Gema+Kalenjin
Sorry I don't see any principled or "like-minded" groups in this secession seesaw. There is no historical injustice here - definitely no sophisticated machinery that will churn out Muhoho in 2032 :D That's a nightmare you've dreamt up; the poor boy can't even speak :D By 2027 Kalenjin might be on the same side with the Luo or the Kamba should Jubilee break asunder.
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If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
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The makodingo bill is silly games. If it is up to silly games two can play. Several other counties can apply to beenjoined and we'll then see how that ends. The jubilant knife will be turned backwards. As to whether winning the presidency is easier, the wording is ibcorrect and totally musleading. STEALING THE PRESIDENCY IS EASIER. Say that after me 50 times.
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
-
Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
Just like the British.
Same play, different actors.
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017
Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?
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If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.
Sorry there are no such units. The counties are miniscule enough - and some can't even feed themselves. We need more EAC - and COMESA and AU - not more subdivision. Trade blocks implies unity and synergy not division. Divisions are always to assuage entitled ethnic or racist feelings - not about the economy. Even in a place like Sweden - where poor Africans die in the sea to reach - there are folks who cry federalism or secession - the "alt right" - because they have been screwed by the system. This is politics not economy.
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Murkomen is right. Winning the presidency is much easier than seceding. A referendum is basically an election PLUS all the signatures, county approvals, parliamentary and presidential approvals, etc. That's the legal and peaceful route for a normal referendum like Okoa Kenya for revenue sharing.
Secession is a separate animal. It includes a few cases at the international tribunal on nation-states.
The last time there was secession talk in the US - 1850s - there was millions dead including POTUS. The South wanted to avoid the abolition and carry on with slavery. Needless to say the great USA has been happily living together ever after.
It's like watching a real life version of the old school game Lemmings, following the leader off a cliff.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/uRxRLxPbtKf28/giphy.gif)
We are definitely taking a risk resisting this dictators fully aware that nothing good comes without taking a risk. The 1st liberation was a risk, the 2nd was a risk and the 3rd will also be a risk. People will die, maimed and detained but Status quo is no longer acceptable to us.
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017
Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?
You are comparing apples and oranges in a strange a very strenuous attempt to justify the electoral authoritarianism that we are fighting. This is very different from the multi-party liberation which dislodged Kanu/Moi. I am really not interested in persuading you to join us if you are happy where you are, just stop lecturing us on what is good for us as if we are your children.
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017
Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?
You are comparing apples and oranges in a strange a very strenuous attempt to justify the electoral authoritarianism that we are fighting. This is very different from the multi-party liberation which dislodged Kanu/Moi. I am really not interested in persuading you to join us if you are happy where you are, just stop lecturing us on what is good for us as if we are your children.
I probably have a better grasp of NASWA than yourself so take a deep breath.
What’s so wicked with RVGEMA juggernaut?
I don’t know how you can legislate against selfishness, maybe we should ban coalitions
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If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.
Sorry there are no such units. The counties are miniscule enough - and some can't even feed themselves. We need more EAC - and COMESA and AU - not more subdivision. Trade blocks implies unity and synergy not division. Divisions are always to assuage entitled ethnic or racist feelings - not about the economy. Even in a place like Sweden - where poor Africans die in the sea to reach - there are folks who cry federalism or secession - the "alt right" - because they have been screwed by the system. This is politics not economy.
Counties can be combined to form economic viable federal units. This is to make counties viable and not dependent on National government. Federalism doesn't necessarily lead to autonomy.We need federal units like germany or america that are viable not districts. The clamor for sharing the pie would shift to baking(hopefully).
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If the proposals were about federalism that would make sense to me. Several major units that are formed not on ethnicity but on economic viability. Every federal unit to be self sustaining keeping bulk of taxes derived from that unit.
Sorry there are no such units. The counties are miniscule enough - and some can't even feed themselves. We need more EAC - and COMESA and AU - not more subdivision. Trade blocks implies unity and synergy not division. Divisions are always to assuage entitled ethnic or racist feelings - not about the economy. Even in a place like Sweden - where poor Africans die in the sea to reach - there are folks who cry federalism or secession - the "alt right" - because they have been screwed by the system. This is politics not economy.
Counties can be combined to form economic viable federal units. This is to make counties viable and not dependent on National government. Federalism doesn't necessarily lead to autonomy.We need federal units like germany or america that are viable not districts. The clamor for sharing the pie would shift to baking(hopefully).
The 8 provinces we had for 50 years - were they great? The reason the 16 regions were tossed in Naivasha were 1)fear of tribalism or secession. Imagine a Nyanza region. Nothing stops the current counties from caucusing or cooperating. Mt Kenya governors are presently partnering over some issue or other. 2)National + regional + county is too much government. The town councils and mayors were scrapped for this reason. I think we should scrap some of the commissions to save taxes for development. Like the toothless CRA and Budget Office which do the Treasury's job. Further devolution should be directed to the counties once they prove they can do the job better than the national government. They actually collect rates like the old councils without accounting to the Treasury.
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The 8 provinces we had for 50 years - were they great? The reason the 16 regions were tossed in Naivasha were 1)fear of tribalism or secession. Imagine a Nyanza region. Nothing stops the current counties from caucusing or cooperating. Mt Kenya governors are presently partnering over some issue or other. 2)National + regional + county is too much government. The town councils and mayors were scrapped for this reason. I think we should scrap some of the commissions to save taxes for development. Like the toothless CRA and Budget Office which do the Treasury's job. Further devolution should be directed to the counties once they prove they can do the job better than the national government. They actually collect rates like the old councils without accounting to the Treasury.
I am not suggesting another layer of government but amalgamation of existing counties. Bottomline whether counties or federal units, funds allocation or retention should be determined by where those funds emanate from. So that counties can concentrating on economic development instead of waiting for funds from national government like manna. Yes we need to scrap alot of commissions and parastatals .
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I don't understand why we need big multi-ethnic counties when we know the clamour for devolution & federalism is ethnic. The 47 counties for me are fine - we just need to redraw the boundaries in next review - no point keeping Kurias in Migori for example - they should join Kisii county - part of Kisii should be hived off to Nyamira. The same case with Mt Elgon in Bungoma - they should be part of Tranzoia. Basically our counties should be single ethnic or at worst -related tribes - say Mbeere & Embu - and Keiyo-Marakwet - those can live together - but Kuria & Luos - Teso & Luhyas - Sabaot & Bukusu - is tough mix. Then you have tiny counties like Lamu - part of Kilifi ought to be hived off to Lamu.
The next battle is 2020 when the boundaries will be reviewed by IEBC. IEBC hopefully will be driven by public participation and perhaps some referendum.
The genesis of provinces and district - which are ethnic - is 1962 survey by British - where kenyans just wanted their own or related tribe enclaves. This feeling has not changed.
This 47 counties in a country where population is increasing - is good start to go federal - in the future - each of this counties will have 2m plus people - enough capacity to collect taxes and manage their own issues.
The 8 provinces we had for 50 years - were they great? The reason the 16 regions were tossed in Naivasha were 1)fear of tribalism or secession. Imagine a Nyanza region. Nothing stops the current counties from caucusing or cooperating. Mt Kenya governors are presently partnering over some issue or other. 2)National + regional + county is too much government. The town councils and mayors were scrapped for this reason. I think we should scrap some of the commissions to save taxes for development. Like the toothless CRA and Budget Office which do the Treasury's job. Further devolution should be directed to the counties once they prove they can do the job better than the national government. They actually collect rates like the old councils without accounting to the Treasury.
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I don't get the scale issue with bigger counties? Why can't current counties do all that on a small scale? We have tiny well ran counties - Namibia is mere 2m people - Kiambu is more popolous than that - the Botswana - the same - Cape Verde - name - most of well ran countries in Africa are 10m and less.
If the idea is to satisfy the big ego politicians by giving them landing space in more powerful counties then that makes some sense - say Kalonzo won't mind running all 3 counties of Ukambani - but find the current ones too small?
In my view this problem - of big principals will disappear in generation - the next crop of politician will start bottom-up - from MCA to MP to Governor to PORK. Right now you've all top dogs in Moi and Kibaki regime who have been everything but cannot imagine being governors - too small for them - that crop are retiring -
I am not suggesting another layer of government but amalgamation of existing counties. Bottomline whether counties or federal units, funds allocation or retention should be determined by where those funds emanate from. So that counties can concentrating on economic development instead of waiting for funds from national government like manna. Yes we need to scrap alot of commissions and parastatals .
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
What I don't get is why there's a bill at all. Do we genuinely expect the houses to pass anything? I hope NASA is not placing even one egg in this particular basket. The Makodinga bill is also stupid. The Boer once tried to "give away" the Zulu to the King of Swaziland to save himself the headache of dealing with them. You can't just rob people of their citizenship, even by a referendum, if the people in those places don't themselves vote to secede. Another thing, this narrative that the Luo are isolated, they are the 'problem' for which a solution must be found is not only sick, it's a plain lie that no one outside Jubilant stronghold believes. It's not just the Luo. We all know it.
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The secession counties in the Bill actually include jubilant strongholds of Kalenjin RV. An odd inclusion if you ask me.
What I don't get is why there's a bill at all. Do we genuinely expect the houses to pass anything? I hope NASA is not placing even one egg in this particular basket. The Makodinga bill is also stupid. The Boer once tried to "give away" the Zulu to the King of Swaziland to save himself the headache of dealing with them. You can't just rob people of their citizenship, even by a referendum, if the people in those places don't themselves vote to secede. Another thing, this narrative that the Luo are isolated, they are the 'problem' for which a solution must be found is not only sick, it's a plain lie that no one outside Jubilant stronghold believes. It's not just the Luo. We all know it.
I think the thing can bypass the house, but after going through some hoops. I agree there is a narrative to portray the whole thing as a Luo affair. That somehow if the Luo are pushed out, everybody else will be okay with having their heads shitted on. Probably leaning on the fact that the most vocal proponents of change in Kenya have been Luo.
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There's one major move the secessionists could do to force Uhuruto to the negotiating table; resign en masse, all of them from MCA to governor. Every single one.
But they wouldn't.
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In March, 2008, his ZANU-PF party was defeated by Morgan Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) in parliamentary polls. Tsvangirai won the first-round presidential vote, but withdrew from the second round, citing violence against his supporters. Mugabe was inaugurated for a new term.
In 2013 Mugabe was declared re-elected and his party won a two-thirds majority in parliament.
KANU A/B
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Robina, why is it so hard for you to understand that the these are not just cyclical elections but an electoral authoritarianism that is designed to keep on churning pre-determined dictators. Just because you are too slow, or too naïve or maybe you do not just care should not make everybody see the world from your point of view. This is what freedom of association is all about. We want to build a nation with those who share our fundamental values in the rule of law, social and economic justice. Stay in the republic and enjoy the cyclical elections but please stop thinking for us and lecturing us on what is good for us. We already figured that out.
Authoritarianism is the latest buzzword.
The biggest component of the so called ‘electoral authoritarianism’ is a solid RVGEMA coalition that locks presidency for about 20yrs. That’s not illegal in any way unlike state capture bla bla
Secession is simply coping mechanisms...coming to terms with ballot thrashing
What's a solid RVGEMA coalition? Why not a Kenya coalition? So far we only see theft and police violence.
Moi predicted that multipartysm would divide us along tribes and it came to pass in 1992. 1997 the opposition realized thst nothing short of tribal coalitions would dislodge Nyaoism. So 2002 we had some solid tribal bloc excluding Kalenjins. 2007 Kibaki made a tragic mistake of disenfranchising a good component of the tribal coalition that saw him through 5yrs before....Uhuruto cobbled another in 2013, maintained it in 2017
Point is whatever Jubilee did is not novel nor illegal. It was successfully used to dislodge Moi and everyone cheered, not it is being used to maintain status quo. Why is it currently being vilified? Would NASWA be whining about tribal coalitions had theirs swept Jubilee into oblivion?
You are comparing apples and oranges in a strange a very strenuous attempt to justify the electoral authoritarianism that we are fighting. This is very different from the multi-party liberation which dislodged Kanu/Moi. I am really not interested in persuading you to join us if you are happy where you are, just stop lecturing us on what is good for us as if we are your children.
I probably have a better grasp of NASWA than yourself so take a deep breath.
What’s so wicked with RVGEMA juggernaut?
I don’t know how you can legislate against selfishness, maybe we should ban coalitions
Massive electoral fraud, extreme tribalism, corruption and murders?
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Is this a whole new thing now in Kenya? Is it hip? Do folks "come out" as secessionist?
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Is this a whole new thing now in Kenya? Is it hip? Do folks "come out" as secessionist?
The stories keep on changing, with the NASA leaders throwing anything to remain relevant.
This from MDVD (granted, no heavyweight):
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/nasa-wants-iebc-roles-devolved-to-counties_c1671248
See? Now they're talking about devolving the IEBC to the counties and a parliamentary system...again.
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You are slowly morphing into an idiot regurgitating jubilee's cheap talking points. Tell us something new. Its really boring.
Is this a whole new thing now in Kenya? Is it hip? Do folks "come out" as secessionist?
The stories keep on changing, with the NASA leaders throwing anything to remain relevant.
This from MDVD (granted, no heavyweight):
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/nasa-wants-iebc-roles-devolved-to-counties_c1671248
See? Now they're talking about devolving the IEBC to the counties and a parliamentary system...again.
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Peter anyang Nyongo calls for federal system https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243 . Now this is an idea I would support. Bottomline whether it will be counties or Federal units, the unit gets to keep a percentage of all the taxes derived from that county or federal unit. This should lead to scrapping of CRA. There are some real insights here on how counties are doing in revenue collection http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/
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Peter anyang Nyongo calls for federal system https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243 . Now this is an idea I would support. Bottomline whether it will be counties or Federal units, the unit gets to keep a percentage of all the taxes derived from that county or federal unit. This should lead to scrapping of CRA. There are some real insights here on how counties are doing in revenue collection http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/
We need some time to test out the NEW county system. It's a good thing NASA has control of only a minority of the counties so the majority will say a firm No to this nonsense. It's the reason there is a tussle over the CoG chair.
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You are slowly morphing into an idiot regurgitating jubilee's cheap talking points. Tell us something new. Its really boring.
Is this a whole new thing now in Kenya? Is it hip? Do folks "come out" as secessionist?
The stories keep on changing, with the NASA leaders throwing anything to remain relevant.
This from MDVD (granted, no heavyweight):
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/nasa-wants-iebc-roles-devolved-to-counties_c1671248
See? Now they're talking about devolving the IEBC to the counties and a parliamentary system...again.
Mind your language.
If you disagree with anything I have to say, you're free to ignore me.
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Peter anyang Nyongo calls for federal system https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243 . Now this is an idea I would support. Bottomline whether it will be counties or Federal units, the unit gets to keep a percentage of all the taxes derived from that county or federal unit. This should lead to scrapping of CRA. There are some real insights here on how counties are doing in revenue collection http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/
We need some time to test out the NEW county system. It's a good thing NASA has control of only a minority of the counties so the majority will say a firm No to this nonsense. It's the reason there is a tussle over the CoG chair.
Actually I don't think this is nonsense. We made a mistake when we focused so much on funds distribution and very little on raising funds. The way counties are constituted is to get funds from national government and spend it. Very little is in trying to attract investment. If a company invest in a county the most the county will get is just company license and land rates on the building. We can argue whether the counties have capacity to be federal units but the way forward has to be more federal in whatever form. Kisumu and Makueni are currently the test counties for so called social democracy.
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Peter anyang Nyongo calls for federal system https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243 (https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243) . Now this is an idea I would support. Bottomline whether it will be counties or Federal units, the unit gets to keep a percentage of all the taxes derived from that county or federal unit. This should lead to scrapping of CRA. There are some real insights here on how counties are doing in revenue collection http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/ (http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/)
For a University of Chicago alum, Anyang' Nyong'o makes a very shallow case for Federalism. He should at a minimum know the tenderpreneur phenomenon has nothing to do with devolution or lack of it. Scary.
I agree that is an option Kenya should explore urgently. But not because of what this says in this article.
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Peter anyang Nyongo calls for federal system https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243 (https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/11/18/if-we-fear-secession-then-lets-go-federal-a-marriage-that-works_c1671243) . Now this is an idea I would support. Bottomline whether it will be counties or Federal units, the unit gets to keep a percentage of all the taxes derived from that county or federal unit. This should lead to scrapping of CRA. There are some real insights here on how counties are doing in revenue collection http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/ (http://cob.go.ke/publications/consolidated-county-budget-implementation-review-reports/)
We need some time to test out the NEW county system. It's a good thing NASA has control of only a minority of the counties so the majority will say a firm No to this nonsense. It's the reason there is a tussle over the CoG chair.
Actually I don't think this is nonsense. We made a mistake when we focused so much on funds distribution and very little on raising funds. The way counties are constituted is to get funds from national government and spend it. Very little is in trying to attract investment. If a company invest in a county the most the county will get is just company license and land rates on the building. We can argue whether the counties have capacity to be federal units but the way forward has to be more federal in whatever form. Kisumu and Makueni are currently the test counties for so called social democracy.
Some counties are not viable. There is still going to be a need for redistribution. In the US, some states, mostly in the South are net recipients of the Federal kitty.
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Some counties are not viable. There is still going to be a need for redistribution. In the US, some states, mostly in the South are net recipients of the Federal kitty.
Even in kenya we have equalization fund that poor counties get. This can be maintained but the bulk of funds in counties should come from taxes derived from that county just like in US.