Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 12, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
-
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does. Daily they call press conference or appear in court against IEBC. You'd think this election is NASWA versus IEBC :). They have concentrated their vitrol on IEBC that was recently re-constituted after they demos and demos.
The latest is here
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/11/chiloba-among-iebc-staff-nasa-wants-kicked-out-before-polls_c1594893
In the meantime Homabay, Kisumu, Siaya and Migori are leading in double-registered votes as they desperately trying to rig the next election.
About 5% of Homabay are double registered compared to less than 1% elsewhere.
-
At some point Kenyans will call their bluff... and the gide will turn. Personally am happy with the IEBC as constituted a it represents professional face of Kenya, even with the "Butcher" (which is what Omollo calls Connie Bucha Maina) as vice chair. You'd think Jubilee unilaterally appointed these folks. Anyway I wonder why Jubilee is getting played like a drum by these guys... always reacting. Uhuruto are better than this. Why derail the polls? What is the endgame? - figure that out first.
-
Nobody knows NASA end game. We can only speculate that they know they cannot win the next election (moas, opinion polls, common sense, history) against an incumbent like Uhuru. Therefore we can only conclude their end-game is to discredit IEBC in preparation to refusing to accept election outcome and then cry foul after election - refuse to go to Supreme Court - instigate civil disobedience & try to paralyse the GOK - in hope Uhuru will sit down and form a gok of national unity including them.
Jubilee hands are tied as far as IEBC goes. This is a war btw NASWA and IEBC. Every time Jubilee try to defend IEBC - then it's "vindicate" NASWA claims.Given the amount of vitrol directed against IEBC - for whatever they do or fail to do - one can conclude the end-game is to deny IEBC any public goodwill so it can be easy to cry - election were rigged !
But we know election must be held on 8.8.2017.
And so Jubilee plan is simple. Campaign and hope to win it. Prepare the security forces to deal with inevitable civil disobedience from NASWA. Govern for 5 yrs and we go back to the same crap in 2022.
At some point Kenyans will call their bluff... and the gide will turn. Personally am happy with the IEBC as constituted a it represents professional face of Kenya, even with the "Butcher" (which is what Omollo calls Connie Bucha Maina) as vice chair. You'd think Jubilee unilaterally appointed these folks. Anyway I wonder why Jubilee is getting played like a drum by these guys... always reacting. Uhuruto are better than this. Why derail the polls? What is the endgame? - figure that out first.
-
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does. Daily they call press conference or appear in court against IEBC. You'd think this election is NASWA versus IEBC :). They have concentrated their vitrol on IEBC that was recently re-constituted after they demos and demos.
The latest is here
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/11/chiloba-among-iebc-staff-nasa-wants-kicked-out-before-polls_c1594893
In the meantime Homabay, Kisumu, Siaya and Migori are leading in double-registered votes as they desperately trying to rig the next election.
About 5% of Homabay are double registered compared to less than 1% elsewhere.
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/
-
Tortured logic. It does not matter how many lawsuits NASA has filed because there is no limit one can file. What we need to be discussing are the merits of each case. IEBC is responsible for running the elections nationally and that includes responsibility for the double registrations in Nyanza if any. What I find suspicious is Jubilee always acting as the spokespeople for IEBC. Whenever IEBC is told to fix something or taken to court the first people one hears from protesting streanously with veins almost bursting are Chupilee propaganda squad.
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does. Daily they call press conference or appear in court against IEBC. You'd think this election is NASWA versus IEBC :). They have concentrated their vitrol on IEBC that was recently re-constituted after they demos and demos.
The latest is here
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/11/chiloba-among-iebc-staff-nasa-wants-kicked-out-before-polls_c1594893
In the meantime Homabay, Kisumu, Siaya and Migori are leading in double-registered votes as they desperately trying to rig the next election.
About 5% of Homabay are double registered compared to less than 1% elsewhere.
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/
-
Tortured logic. It does not matter how many lawsuits NASA has filed because there is no limit one can file. What we need to be discussing are the merits of each case. IEBC is responsible for running the elections nationally and that includes responsibility for the double registrations in Nyanza if any. What I find suspicious is Jubilee always acting as the spokespeople for IEBC. Whenever IEBC is told to fix something or taken to court the first people one hears from protesting streanously with veins almost bursting are Chupilee propaganda squad.
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does. Daily they call press conference or appear in court against IEBC. You'd think this election is NASWA versus IEBC :). They have concentrated their vitrol on IEBC that was recently re-constituted after they demos and demos.
The latest is here
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/11/chiloba-among-iebc-staff-nasa-wants-kicked-out-before-polls_c1594893
In the meantime Homabay, Kisumu, Siaya and Migori are leading in double-registered votes as they desperately trying to rig the next election.
About 5% of Homabay are double registered compared to less than 1% elsewhere.
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/
NASA would have taken to the streets had the excessive double registration been in Kiambu.
Jubilee response to NASWA suit is because it either touches them like Al Ghurair, or for political capital
-
Its one thing to be partisan but its another to talk arrogantly and ignorantly. What most ourutu supporters do not understand is that Kenya is held together by law and not by the Kikuyu/Kalenjin voters. Think about it, if not for the law, do you think kikuyus and kalenjins can hold the order in this country?. Every Kenyan should be very happy that NASA is going to court and that the court is working. Ouruto and their supporters talk tough but suppose there was no law and no courts, do they really, really, think they can take-over this country and rule it purely based on tribal majority? Without the law, MOAS is useless, tyranny of numbers will be useless. Even a military government needs some level of public support and some kind of law to survive. Stop the childish arrogance and have some appreciation of the law and the fact that NASA is going to court. If NASA had no respect for the law they would not be going to court.
Tortured logic. It does not matter how many lawsuits NASA has filed because there is no limit one can file. What we need to be discussing are the merits of each case. IEBC is responsible for running the elections nationally and that includes responsibility for the double registrations in Nyanza if any. What I find suspicious is Jubilee always acting as the spokespeople for IEBC. Whenever IEBC is told to fix something or taken to court the first people one hears from protesting streanously with veins almost bursting are Chupilee propaganda squad.
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does. Daily they call press conference or appear in court against IEBC. You'd think this election is NASWA versus IEBC :). They have concentrated their vitrol on IEBC that was recently re-constituted after they demos and demos.
The latest is here
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/11/chiloba-among-iebc-staff-nasa-wants-kicked-out-before-polls_c1594893
In the meantime Homabay, Kisumu, Siaya and Migori are leading in double-registered votes as they desperately trying to rig the next election.
About 5% of Homabay are double registered compared to less than 1% elsewhere.
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/
NASA would have taken to the streets had the excessive double registration been in Kiambu.
Jubilee response to NASWA suit is because it either touches them like Al Ghurair, or for political capital
-
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/ (http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/)
A good rule of thumb to avoid wasting cycles on a rumor is to fact check before making further assumptions on that basis.
-
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/ (http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/)
Just curious: how many of those are current, and how many are from years back?
-
I got the figure from Mukormen and I haven't verified it, but to be honest, there a lot of CORD vs IEBC in Kenyalaw.org to warrant this claim.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/ (http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/)
Just curious: how many of those are current, and how many are from years back?
Norman Manyaga tells me they're eight
-
Norman Manyaga tells me they're eight
I don't know who Norman Manyanga is, but I'm surprised that you have chosen to rely on him, right after pointing us to kenyalaw.org. Still, we are making some progress---down from
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does.
While we wait for firm numbers, perhaps we can get some details on the 8 and how they are on "virtually everything ..."?
-
Norman Manyaga tells me they're eight
I don't know who Norman Manyanga is, but I'm surprised that you have chosen to rely on him, right after pointing us to kenyalaw.org. Still, we are making some progress---down from
They have filled more than 27 cases (according to vooke) against IEBC touching virtually on everything IEBC does.
While we wait for firm numbers, perhaps we can get some details on the 8 and how they are on "virtually everything ..."?
27 cases to date, 8 are in court, if Norman is reliable. He's the NASA CEO,and he's more likely to understate the count. 'We' should get some meat on the 8, why don't you take that up
-
I think someone just came from Mars and is unaware of NASA daily battles with iebc.totally unprecedented.
-
27 cases to date, 8 are in court, if Norman is reliable
Where are the other 19, and why do they matter if they aren't in court? And is it Murkomen or Norman? :)
'We' should get some meat on the 8, why don't you take that up
I'm sure that those who claim the cases "touch on everything" will soon give us the details.
-
27 cases to date, 8 are in court, if Norman is reliable
Where are the other 19, and why do they matter if they aren't in court? And is it Murkomen or Norman? :)
'We' should get some meat on the 8, why don't you take that up
I'm sure that those who claim the cases "touch on everything" will soon give us the details.
Some have been worn, others thrown out.
-
27 cases to date, 8 are in court, if Norman is reliable
Where are the other 19, and why do they matter if they aren't in court? And is it Murkomen or Norman? :)
Murkomen says 27. Norman 8. Both unverified. If I read vooke's unstated logic correctly, we should behave as if they are both established facts until we find contrary evidence. :-\
-
27 cases to date, 8 are in court, if Norman is reliable
Where are the other 19, and why do they matter if they aren't in court? And is it Murkomen or Norman? :)
Murkomen says 27. Norman 8. Both unverified. If I read vooke's unstated logic correctly, we should behave as if they are both established facts until we find contrary evidence. :-\
Norman spoke of current cases, Mukormen probably all recent cases. vooke categorically says 0 cases.
-
Pundit,
I want you to spare some 20min and pore through this ruling that NASWA petitioned using Okiya proxy. NASA rioted when IEBC awarded the audit job to KPMG, instead of going to PPA,they rushed to court and filed a petition 648. of 2016. It was thrown out on 30th March 2017. Then the SAME day Omtata filed this petition and NASWA were enjoined as interested party. It was so rushed that Okiya identified himself as CORD and vice versa
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/export/137167/pdf
Basically,
KPMG was procured when the commissioners had packed and new commissioners had not been appointed
The procurement did not involve public participation and IEBC lacked competence in procuring audit of the register
The commission is incompetent as evidenced by various instances of double registration
KPMG was unfit to carry out the audit
The audit was opaque.
Bla bla.
This is one of the BEST example of NASWA attempting to derail the IEBC by frivolous cases.
What's surprising was that Babu was as late as yesterday claiming that KPMG was incompetent but the case had ZERO merit. And what's more, they waited minths from the contract before petitioning.
-
Let me wait for Pundit to read and comment then I set you right.
May be I should stand back and let Moon Ki deal with it because you are extending the same argument you lost and admitted you were LYING to a new thread.
Pundit,
I want you to spare some 20min and pore through this ruling that NASWA petitioned using Okiya proxy. NASA rioted when IEBC awarded the audit job to KPMG, instead of going to PPA,they rushed to court and filed a petition 648. of 2016. It was thrown out on 30th March 2017. Then the SAME day Omtata filed this petition and NASWA were enjoined as interested party. It was so rushed that Okiya identified himself as CORD and vice versa
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/export/137167/pdf
Basically,
KPMG was procured when the commissioners had packed and new commissioners had not been appointed
The procurement did not involve public participation and IEBC lacked competence in procuring audit of the register
The commission is incompetent as evidenced by various instances of double registration
KPMG was unfit to carry out the audit
The audit was opaque.
Bla bla.
This is one of the BEST example of NASWA attempting to derail the IEBC by frivolous cases.
What's surprising was that Babu was as late as yesterday claiming that KPMG was incompetent but the case had ZERO merit. And what's more, they waited minths from the contract before petitioning.
-
I am reading it now.NASA just don't want to face kichinjio come 8th - August - they are pulling all stunts to block the election from happening.
-
Uchaguzi ni lazima nane nane , wapende wasipende.
Who in NASA wants to postpone the elections? The desire of Uhuru is to postpone the elections hoping he will get time to fix his campaign. Why would NASA let go of the current momentum? Uhuru is a champion of doublespeak
1. He calls Raila a tribalist
2. He says he's delivered on Gender equality in his government
3. He asks opposition to stop matusi before calling Raila muguruki
4. His team now says Raila is a changaa addict while Uhuru is a teetotaler
I could go on forever. Whatever Uhuru says, he means the opposite.
When he says he'll accept defeat he means Raila must accept defeat in the poll he plans to steal.
-
Another court case
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/18/nasa-wants-polls-stopped-if-electronic-voter-kits-fail_c1598825
-
On the eve of election - they will still be rushing to court.
Another court case
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/18/nasa-wants-polls-stopped-if-electronic-voter-kits-fail_c1598825
-
I wish you would focus on why they are going to court than how many times. It's not just about this elections it's also about future elections. The process of improving and perfecting the Kenyan electoral system is just getting started. NASA is raising very weighty issues.
On the eve of election - they will still be rushing to court.
Another court case
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/07/18/nasa-wants-polls-stopped-if-electronic-voter-kits-fail_c1598825
-
Time-barred. You had 4yrs to rush to court. Now we have exactly 3 weeks to voting day. Whatever remedy you need can only be granted in petition or in 2022 election. The judges simply need to tell NASA - time for games is up - this time for Kenyans to elect new leadership - the court is powerless - when constitution has clearly put a predictable date for election. Nobody want election where judiciary will decide which day or month election are done. That clearly will take us to dark days when Moi had election date as his secret.
Let election happen - let IEBC do their best - and if their best is not good enough - there is SCOK just waiting for you - you can combine all these 30 suits into a mega-petition.
Precautionary conservatory orders against "perceived" rigging when election has yet to happen should be issued on rare case. Rigging can be cured via petitions.
I wish you would focus on why they are going to court than how many times. It's not just about this elections it's also about future elections. The process of improving and perfecting the Kenyan electoral system is just getting started. NASA is raising very weighty issues.
-
Jubililee think unfairness of the voting system is in their favor and that is why they complain about the heightened level of vigilance by NASA. Kenyans are being educated about the role the court plays in elections. In the US the courts in all states and all counties are open on the day of election, with judges assigned to specifically handle complaints that are filed all day long including almost one hour to the end of the election to extend time for people already in the line. When NASA uses the court, you complain, when NASA exercise their right to go to the street, you complain-what else is new. It is the opposition's persistence that gave us multi-party, devolution, the new katiba and all the freedoms that all of us now enjoy. We will continue to make Kenya better despite your protests.
Time-barred. You had 4yrs to rush to court. Now we have exactly 3 weeks to voting day. Whatever remedy you need can only be granted in petition or in 2022 election. The judges simply need to tell NASA - time for games is up - this time for Kenyans to elect new leadership - the court is powerless - when constitution has clearly put a predictable date for election. Nobody want election where judiciary will decide which day or month election are done. That clearly will take us to dark days when Moi had election date as his secret.
Let election happen - let IEBC do their best - and if their best is not good enough - there is SCOK just waiting for you - you can combine all these 30 suits into a mega-petition.
Precautionary conservatory orders against "perceived" rigging when election has yet to happen should be issued on rare case. Rigging can be cured via petitions.
I wish you would focus on why they are going to court than how many times. It's not just about this elections it's also about future elections. The process of improving and perfecting the Kenyan electoral system is just getting started. NASA is raising very weighty issues.
-
Pundit
This is a typical Jubilee Uthamaki way of thinking. I can see you are getting fully integrated.
Time-barred. You had 4yrs to rush to court.
How could the opposition go to court to demand the publication of the Voter Register or against the Al Ghurair tender when they were not issues at the time? CORD went to the streets to address the issues and you condemned and ridiculed their demands without stating how they would interfere with free, fair and credible elections.
Now we have exactly 3 weeks to voting day. Whatever remedy you need can only be granted in petition or in 2022 election.
Let's leave that to the courts. I appreciate your personal and highly subjective opinion
The judges simply need to tell NASA - time for games is up - this time for Kenyans to elect new leadership - the court is powerless - when constitution has clearly put a predictable date for election.
Again that is your opinion and quite subjective.
Nobody want election where judiciary will decide which day or month election are done. That clearly will take us to dark days when Moi had election date as his secret.
How about 2012? Who decided on the March 2013 Election? I do not recall Jubilee protesting. If anything, they got the extra time they needed to perfect the theft.
Let election happen - let IEBC do their best - and if their best is not good enough - there is SCOK just waiting for you - you can combine all these 30 suits into a mega-petition.
If there is one place I know NASA will not go as a plaintiff the Njoki Ndung'u and Maraga court is it! We know where Njoki hid her 2013 mega bribe and she had better get ready to run or lose it.
Precautionary conservatory orders against "perceived" rigging when election has yet to happen should be issued on rare case. Rigging can be cured via petitions.
Your personal opinion is noted and taken into advisement
I wish you would focus on why they are going to court than how many times. It's not just about this elections it's also about future elections. The process of improving and perfecting the Kenyan electoral system is just getting started. NASA is raising very weighty issues.
-
Any law can be challenged in court, whether in the constitution, statutory, regulatory, case law, customary law. It all depends on the basis of the challenge. This includes the date of the election. Elections must be free and fair and therefore if the court holds that the elections would not be substantially free and fair if held on nane nane, then they can change the date of the elections to remedy the situation. The courts would not do it lightly but if the evidence is overwhelming then they have no choice but to do it.
-
8.8 is not a light matter and I expect the judiciary to exercise extreme caution. IEBC remain independent. We want election done so we can send NASA back to the opposition trenches and Jubilee can continue the good work.
Any law can be challenged in court, whether in the constitution, statutory, regulatory, case law, customary law. It all depends on the basis of the challenge. This includes the date of the election. Elections must be free and fair and therefore if the court holds that the elections would not be substantially free and fair if held on nane nane, then they can change the date of the elections to remedy the situation. The courts would not do it lightly but if the evidence is overwhelming then they have no choice but to do it.
-
Any law can be challenged in court, whether in the constitution, statutory, regulatory, case law, customary law. It all depends on the basis of the challenge. This includes the date of the election. Elections must be free and fair and therefore if the court holds that the elections would not be substantially free and fair if held on nane nane, then they can change the date of the elections to remedy the situation. The courts would not do it lightly but if the evidence is overwhelming then they have no choice but to do it.
The jubilant has drawn a line on what the courts can say about the law. It's the same shit I saw kamwana spouting.
-
8.8 is not a light matter and I expect the judiciary to exercise extreme caution. IEBC remain independent. We want election done so we can send NASA back to the opposition trenches and Jubilee can continue the good work.
Any law can be challenged in court, whether in the constitution, statutory, regulatory, case law, customary law. It all depends on the basis of the challenge. This includes the date of the election. Elections must be free and fair and therefore if the court holds that the elections would not be substantially free and fair if held on nane nane, then they can change the date of the elections to remedy the situation. The courts would not do it lightly but if the evidence is overwhelming then they have no choice but to do it.
They should indeed. That does not mean the date is the only consideration. It has to be balanced against other potentially competing considerations in the constitution.
-
The courts have wizened and NASWA is only a ruling or two away from branding the courts as compromised.
-
The Al Ghurair matter is substantive for associating with a contestant which is totally unprofessional for an experienced ballot printer. I expect the court to side with NASA. And once again Uhuru will be left with egg in the face.
-
The Al Ghurair matter is substantive for associating with a contestant which is totally unprofessional for an experienced ballot printer. I expect the court to side with NASA. And once again Uhuru will be left with egg in the face.
The claims/allegations are weighty, but the evidence for the same was fickle to non-existent. That's what informed the courts. Given the confidence Babu was speaking of, I had imagined he had some super secrets up his sleeve. But there was none. That's why I don't take Omorlo's rants seriously. They at most point to a super-fertile imagination
-
The major issue with A Ghurair Tender is how the tender was awarded. IEBC did not provide conclusive justification for their decision to exercise the option of direct tendering. The use of that option without proper justification lead to the suspicion that some thing was fishy. Its like the option of Manual Voting, IEBC insisted on retaining it, however, if they decide to use it, they must justify it with substantial evidence otherwise any rational allegation would lead to a heightened review by the courts. There are certain options provided by the law for emergent situations, however, when an Agency exercises those options, the standard of review by the court is heightened. NASA does not have to therefore prove beyond reasonable doubt or even with substantial evidence that AL Ghurair has a close relationship with the Kenyatta family. However, because of the direct tender that allegation is rational enough to trigger a heightened standard of review and that is how they found out that public participation requirement was not observed/ or inadequate. Its like if you drive too slowly, the police stop you to find out why you are holding traffic and they find weed in your car in plain sight. You are mostly likely not going to be charged with "driving too slowly" but with illegal possession of weed. Had they chosen Al Ghurair through the regular tendering then NASA would have had to prove with substantial evidence that AL Ghurair is compromised because of its close relationship with the Kenyatta's. In this case all NASA had to do was raise a rational suspicion and the heightened review is triggered. Once the heightened review is triggered everything about the tendering process is looked into and that is how they found inadequate public participation.
The Al Ghurair matter is substantive for associating with a contestant which is totally unprofessional for an experienced ballot printer. I expect the court to side with NASA. And once again Uhuru will be left with egg in the face.
The claims/allegations are weighty, but the evidence for the same was fickle to non-existent. That's what informed the courts. Given the confidence Babu was speaking of, I had imagined he had some super secrets up his sleeve. But there was none. That's why I don't take Omorlo's rants seriously. They at most point to a super-fertile imagination
-
And that argument will stand in the appeal court. Lateness cannot cure breach of process - especially where the lateness itself can be offset by extending the timeline - an argument used successfully by the IEBC itself in 2012.They are now saying, laughably, that they are short of time but the court must not extend the timeline. This, like the vote tallying case where they disowned their own ROs, is hypocritical and incongruous.
The major issue with A Ghurair Tender is how the tender was awarded. IEBC did not provide conclusive justification for their decision to exercise the option of direct tendering. The use of that option without proper justification lead to the suspicion that some thing was fishy. Its like the option of Manual Voting, IEBC insisted on retaining it, however, if they decide to use it, they must justify it with substantial evidence otherwise any rational allegation would lead to a heightened review by the courts. There are certain options provided by the law for emergent situations, however, when an Agency exercises those options, the standard of review by the court is heightened. NASA does not have to therefore prove beyond reasonable doubt or even with substantial evidence that AL Ghurair has a close relationship with the Kenyatta family. However, because of the direct tender that allegation is rational enough to trigger a heightened standard of review and that is how they found out that public participation requirement was not observed/ or inadequate. Its like if you drive too slowly, the police stop you to find out why you are holding traffic and they find weed in your car in plain sight. You are mostly likely not going to be charged with "driving too slowly" but with illegal possession of weed. Had they chosen Al Ghurair through the regular tendering then NASA would have had to prove with substantial evidence that AL Ghurair is compromised because of its close relationship with the Kenyatta's. In this case all NASA had to do was raise a rational suspicion and the heightened review is triggered. Once the heightened review is triggered everything about the tendering process is looked into and that is how they found inadequate public participation.