Author Topic: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.  (Read 4994 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« on: June 28, 2020, 06:46:56 AM »
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Banks-restructure-Sh679bn-loans-on-corona-cash-crunch/539546-5583214-mb9597/index.html

Offline hk

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2020, 10:05:04 AM »
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Banks-restructure-Sh679bn-loans-on-corona-cash-crunch/539546-5583214-mb9597/index.html
That's just the restructured loans i.e loans that borrowers have requested deferment. There's another 376b non performing loans on banks books. Total $10b, that's more than 50% of total banks capital. Basically we have zombie banks.  The 700b restructured loans are unlikely to be serviced cause the businesses are closing for good or operating at a fraction of what they were.
Meanwhile instead of treasury slashing budget and cutting taxes they're just doing the opposite. The legislature should be working on simplifying bankruptcy laws easing restructuring. The moment of truth is here, by next year the full scope of the economy carnage will be evident to everyone.
Pundit instead of buying land near railway to nowhere destination in Naivasha, put your money in vulture fund that will be scooping assets being auctioned  off.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2020, 10:22:51 AM »
Interesting idea about snapping up dead companies...yes on bank..time to consolidate and have fewer but bigger banks

Offline gout

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 12:22:49 PM »
This will then have domino effect of insurance and all financial sector. Saccos and maybe NCBA through taxpayer bailout like KQ one will make a killing.
I underestimated the heartbreaks visited by hasla revolution

Offline hk

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 09:06:05 AM »
Interesting idea about snapping up dead companies...yes on bank..time to consolidate and have fewer but bigger banks
Pundit,
Here is your opportunity https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/markets/marketnews/Banks-shun-seized-asset-auctions-as-bid-prices-fall/3815534-5597682-vk5jod/index.html .  Its time to scoop up distressed assets if you're interested in acquiring assets. If you and your friends formed a vulture fund of about 200m that would be a good start. Honestly we need to change 2012 lands act, determining open market price of assets that aren't openly traded is absurd. The price signal in assets valuation isn't being realized in the economy.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2020, 01:04:51 PM »
I dont think prices have even started coming down. Too early.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2020, 01:31:06 PM »
HK - How can I do this without a vulture fund :)

Offline hk

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2020, 10:26:14 AM »
I dont think prices have even started coming down. Too early.
Prices have come down especially for real estate but haven't hit bottom. Now an acre in karen is going for about 60m from 80m to 100m.

Offline hk

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 10:29:59 AM »
HK - How can I do this without a vulture fund :)
Depends on your interest, but the first thing would be to approach credit department of your bank and get a list of distressed assets.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2020, 10:32:37 AM »
You have 30 million. I have a building I am selling in Makadara. It has tenants in it. All you need is to pay. The title is from original owner.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 11:58:11 AM »
If I invest the same in a micro tea/cottage factory - I am sure I could make more money. Kenyans (kikuyus) need to stop obsessing with land and rental properties. Look at Bahindis - they own very little real estate - maybe the houses they live in - but have made a fortune from manufacturing.

When Ruto become PORK - I want gov to go big time into real estate - so people can divert their money and energies elsewhere - sio PLOTS maguta maguta.The new Kenya Mortgage Bank should be capitalized to offer mortagages at 5-6% - I mean it's almost risk free lending to give mortgage - and gov should work with chinese big contractors to bridge the housing deficit - then those houses should be sold as cheaply as possible with mortgage at even 4%.

You have 30 million. I have a building I am selling in Makadara. It has tenants in it. All you need is to pay. The title is from original owner.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2020, 03:38:59 PM »
If I invest the same in a micro tea/cottage factory - I am sure I could make more money. Kenyans (kikuyus) need to stop obsessing with land and rental properties. Look at Bahindis - they own very little real estate - maybe the houses they live in - but have made a fortune from manufacturing.

When Ruto become PORK - I want gov to go big time into real estate - so people can divert their money and energies elsewhere - sio PLOTS maguta maguta.The new Kenya Mortgage Bank should be capitalized to offer mortagages at 5-6% - I mean it's almost risk free lending to give mortgage - and gov should work with chinese big contractors to bridge the housing deficit - then those houses should be sold as cheaply as possible with mortgage at even 4%.

You have 30 million. I have a building I am selling in Makadara. It has tenants in it. All you need is to pay. The title is from original owner.
It won't happen. Govt can't beat us in the slumskycrappers business. This plot was owned by my grandfather. He had mud houses with rooms. He used to rent it to luos. He would collect his money get on his car and buy mutton with it. At 99 years he got approved a loan by Barclays  bank to build a storey apartment. The family prevailed on him to not do it due to age.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2020, 03:44:50 PM »
If I invest the same in a micro tea/cottage factory - I am sure I could make more money. Kenyans (kikuyus) need to stop obsessing with land and rental properties. Look at Bahindis - they own very little real estate - maybe the houses they live in - but have made a fortune from manufacturing.

When Ruto become PORK - I want gov to go big time into real estate - so people can divert their money and energies elsewhere - sio PLOTS maguta maguta.The new Kenya Mortgage Bank should be capitalized to offer mortagages at 5-6% - I mean it's almost risk free lending to give mortgage - and gov should work with chinese big contractors to bridge the housing deficit - then those houses should be sold as cheaply as possible with mortgage at even 4%.

You have 30 million. I have a building I am selling in Makadara. It has tenants in it. All you need is to pay. The title is from original owner.
It won't happen. Govt can't beat us in the slumskycrappers business. This plot was owned by my grandfather. He had mud houses with rooms. He used to rent it to luos. He would collect his money get on his car and buy mutton with it. At 99 years he got approved a loan by Barclays  bank to build a storey apartment. The family prevailed on him to not do it due to age.

AS they say, each age cohort invests differently. Risky, neutral, no risk. Go ahead and build it. Your dad should have done it despite age.

Offline hk

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2020, 06:21:16 PM »
If I invest the same in a micro tea/cottage factory - I am sure I could make more money. Kenyans (kikuyus) need to stop obsessing with land and rental properties. Look at Bahindis - they own very little real estate - maybe the houses they live in - but have made a fortune from manufacturing.

When Ruto become PORK - I want gov to go big time into real estate - so people can divert their money and energies elsewhere - sio PLOTS maguta maguta.The new Kenya Mortgage Bank should be capitalized to offer mortagages at 5-6% - I mean it's almost risk free lending to give mortgage - and gov should work with chinese big contractors to bridge the housing deficit - then those houses should be sold as cheaply as possible with mortgage at even 4%.

You have 30 million. I have a building I am selling in Makadara. It has tenants in it. All you need is to pay. The title is from original owner.
There's nothing like housing deficit in kenya, what we have is income deficit. By government borrowing like crazy it guarantees that interest rate on mortages won't be 6% any time soon. Another problem is also expensive construction. Before the chinese started using red soil to build roads, all roads were being constructed using hardcore stores. Red soil is cheaper and readily available plus the roads are more durable. Its about time someone invested in a proper brick manufacturing that would be cheaper than quarry stones.  So instead of investing in plots how about investing in building materials.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2020, 06:44:42 PM »
That would be true only if you can point row of empty houses - but there is a pent up demand for housing. The kind of shitty houses in Nairobi attracting high rent is because there is few decent houses with decent infrastructures.

This was not always the case. During Moi era - NHC/NSSF/NHIF were investing in large housing estates like Nyayo Estates. Those houses were so cheap a low civil servant driver could afford one.

When Jirongo and Mugoya started messing around - it's scared such funds - with 'bottomless' money to invest- and they started investing in equities - and now they are also crying in the toilet.

When NSSF/NHIF/Insurance exited from scene - our housing went Matatu way - INFORMAL. It's been that way for years - leading to fugly housing estates. But like Matatu it's now a source of income for many.

What was missing here is the economies of scale that big housing estates can bring. Now we have chinese contractors who can do Nyayo kind of estates - and this is where we need to tap.If one Chinese - like Great Wall guy - can deliver 2,000 units cheaply at 3M - now imagine Gov backed Chinese contractors. They can deliver houses for even 0.5m. I remember NHC Highrises - houses in 2004 were being sold for 0.6m - the original owners bought it 0.4m. They were on very cheap tenant purchase scheme - where owners paid 4-5k per month - and you find civil servants earning 20k - owning houses. Now that is Impossible Dream.

Uhuru had an idea but he lacked Ruto to do the follow up.

We need Chinese contractors - and Kenya Mortgage - plus all these NHIF/NSSF - back in housing - and if they combined synergies - it would be possible to get brand new well planned housing estates with 2B room house being sold for less than 2m.

And that will mean a Kamau going to buy plots to put housing - will not be able to compete. And instead they will invest in other areas including manufacturing, hotels, minning, name it.

Only in poor countries like Africa do you find most housing is being done informally by anybody. Elsewehere housing schemes are built by big pensions, insurance and gov funds.

The same way we have made huge mess of the transport sector.

There's nothing like housing deficit in kenya, what we have is income deficit. By government borrowing like crazy it guarantees that interest rate on mortages won't be 6% any time soon. Another problem is also expensive construction. Before the chinese started using red soil to build roads, all roads were being constructed using hardcore stores. Red soil is cheaper and readily available plus the roads are more durable. Its about time someone invested in a proper brick manufacturing that would be cheaper than quarry stones.  So instead of investing in plots how about investing in building materials.

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2020, 06:29:49 AM »
There's nothing like housing deficit in kenya, what we have is income deficit. By government borrowing like crazy it guarantees that interest rate on mortages won't be 6% any time soon. Another problem is also expensive construction. Before the chinese started using red soil to build roads, all roads were being constructed using hardcore stores. Red soil is cheaper and readily available plus the roads are more durable. Its about time someone invested in a proper brick manufacturing that would be cheaper than quarry stones.  So instead of investing in plots how about investing in building materials.

Yeah, Kenya needs brick factories. Quarry stones are getting expensive.
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2020, 08:17:04 AM »
Suprisingly Ruto is of the same thinking. A kenyan earning 10k - can and should afford mortagage

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2020, 08:56:12 AM »
That would be true only if you can point row of empty houses - but there is a pent up demand for housing. The kind of shitty houses in Nairobi attracting high rent is because there is few decent houses with decent infrastructures.

This was not always the case. During Moi era - NHC/NSSF/NHIF were investing in large housing estates like Nyayo Estates. Those houses were so cheap a low civil servant driver could afford one.

When Jirongo and Mugoya started messing around - it's scared such funds - with 'bottomless' money to invest- and they started investing in equities - and now they are also crying in the toilet.

When NSSF/NHIF/Insurance exited from scene - our housing went Matatu way - INFORMAL. It's been that way for years - leading to fugly housing estates. But like Matatu it's now a source of income for many.

What was missing here is the economies of scale that big housing estates can bring. Now we have chinese contractors who can do Nyayo kind of estates - and this is where we need to tap.If one Chinese - like Great Wall guy - can deliver 2,000 units cheaply at 3M - now imagine Gov backed Chinese contractors. They can deliver houses for even 0.5m. I remember NHC Highrises - houses in 2004 were being sold for 0.6m - the original owners bought it 0.4m. They were on very cheap tenant purchase scheme - where owners paid 4-5k per month - and you find civil servants earning 20k - owning houses. Now that is Impossible Dream.

Uhuru had an idea but he lacked Ruto to do the follow up.

We need Chinese contractors - and Kenya Mortgage - plus all these NHIF/NSSF - back in housing - and if they combined synergies - it would be possible to get brand new well planned housing estates with 2B room house being sold for less than 2m.

And that will mean a Kamau going to buy plots to put housing - will not be able to compete. And instead they will invest in other areas including manufacturing, hotels, minning, name it.

Only in poor countries like Africa do you find most housing is being done informally by anybody. Elsewehere housing schemes are built by big pensions, insurance and gov funds.

The same way we have made huge mess of the transport sector.


Chinese built slums?! Nope, thank you.

Look at how that worked out for Angola.

Huge central planned housing schemes of the kind you are envisioning always end up becoming substandard dwellings few years down the line.

Why pay Chinese when you can employ Kenyan companies to do a better job? Would they allow you to build such sensitive infrastructure that could take employment from local Chinese?, hell no. Only mwafrika is so myopic and unpatriotic as to give his enemies such favors. Chinese won't even allow free access to our avocados. We are stuck with SGR debacle but you want to double down.






Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2020, 09:24:45 AM »
Your lots have only managed to built Kibera and Mathare. Hovels that rats cannot even stay in and you want to deride well planned chinese cities.

 The Chinese contractors are the best. The same way we use the American tech companies - we should use Chinese world class building contractors who can deliver big projects on time and the cost.

The rest of your rambling are the usual ODMoron nonsense.

Chinese built slums?! Nope, thank you.

Look at how that worked out for Angola.

Huge central planned housing schemes of the kind you are envisioning always end up becoming substandard dwellings few years down the line.

Why pay Chinese when you can employ Kenyan companies to do a better job? Would they allow you to build such sensitive infrastructure that could take employment from local Chinese?, hell no. Only mwafrika is so myopic and unpatriotic as to give his enemies such favors. Chinese won't even allow free access to our avocados. We are stuck with SGR debacle but you want to double down.








Offline audacityofhope

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Re: Banking crisis - 700B Kshs loan in trouble.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2020, 12:52:47 PM »
....
Uhuru had an idea but he lacked Ruto to do the follow up....
Which follow up? A Kimwarer and Arror "follow-up" where "only Ksh.7 billion" was lost?
You got jokes. You need to find someone else to front for 2022 hoping you can drop the tribal tag in favor of a public servant who will serve the people.