Author Topic: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud  (Read 10191 times)

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2020, 06:22:20 AM »
Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.

That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2020, 06:28:47 AM »
Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.

That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.

That’s a possibility.  Endorse Bernie and she is out of Biden VP stakes for instance.  But she didn’t have much good to say about Bernie.  A guy whose policies are identical to hers(minus actual plans).  Just saying something good about him can’t possibly damage her potential deals elsewhere.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

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Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2020, 09:44:48 AM »
You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November. 
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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2020, 11:16:27 AM »
You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November.

Conspiracy_Dreamer, is that what you're doing - hyping the hapless Biden so Trump can win? We can't all faithfully bow to your DNC idol... this is America not North Korea. It's called debating okay? Welcome to freedom.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2020, 12:41:07 PM »
Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.

That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.

I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2020, 04:39:39 PM »
Lol. I mailed in for Sanders too. But I don't think Obama is a fraud... the Establishment is scared Sanders's radical ideas would tank them in Congress. That's a miscalculation imho.

The DNC clearly missed the Clinton lesson where they rigged her in and Sanders's base boycotted while some went for Trump. I see a very likely repeat of that in November.

Obama is part of establishment. He lobbied all the candidates to drop out and endorse Biden. What a fraud! Obama is fake. When he came to kenya instead of giving us more trade he started demanding we respect gays. Uhuru was right to tell him that homosexuality was a non issue in Kenya. By the way Africans have this philosophy that a kid born cannot be discarded and so it has to be given the ability to live even when it has traits that are not in norm. A lot of Kikuyus families have gay men that allowed to live their life underground. Binyanyanya wainana parents knew he was gay as hell but they let him be. my childhood friend uncle was gay and he lived in Mombasa. he would come home during christmas with a earing on his ear. His family would welcome him happily and feast him. He was our beloved uncle from Mombatha.. So for that son of gun to come and tell us as kikuyus to respect gays was insulting our people. he didn't know what the the fuck he was talking about. In kenya malayas and other social misfits are allowed to live without being harrassed by cops. In USA a whore will be arrested and harrassed by cops. African Americans are the most homophobic arseholes in the whole world. In Washington DC they are killing transgender Men like flies. Obama should first deal with shit in his own hood before he tries to talk shit about our kenyan culture. Fuck him again and again

Anyway fuck Obama, Fuck that havard uneducated disrespectful motherfucker. 

Offline Arcadian_Dreamer

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2020, 05:55:03 PM »
You can tell who is a troll on this, tis crazy how deep Russian paid posters and alt right racists have infiltrated African boards. I caught a Chinese 50 cent army shit poster red handed yesterday when he broke cover. you can tell here how hard they go against Biden, Trumptards have id'ed as Joe as the most serious challenge to the Fuhrer so they are amplifying Sanders who is their ideal candidate to face in November.

Conspiracy_Dreamer, is that what you're doing - hyping the hapless Biden so Trump can win? We can't all faithfully bow to your DNC idol... this is America not North Korea. It's called debating okay? Welcome to freedom.

 :D :D I got my eyes on you now. There is a reason for Biden's extraordinary rise, Americans have realized he is the best democratic candidate to beat Trumpf in the general. Voters, pundits, markets, polls, all agree. You, Trumpf, Republicans & Neo Nazis want Sanders the socialist in the general  8) I wonder why.
Sleep is good, death is better; but of course, The best would be never to have been born at all.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2020, 05:58:00 PM »
Looks like Biden was a Nigger-lover from way back.
Quote
The furor about Joe Biden’s race politics started as soon as he decided to run for office. As a candidate for the New Castle County Council in 1970, he made expanding public housing central to his campaign. Angry white residents, worried that poor black families would become their neighbors, gave Biden a derisive nickname.

“The first time the phone rang and someone said, ‘You nigger lover, you want them living next to you,’ I was shocked,’’ Biden told the Wilmington News Journal at the time.

On the black side of Wilmington, residents weren’t surprised. They had been using that provocative phrase to describe Biden for years, but as a term of affection.

“Joe was one of us,” recalled Richard Smith, 71, a black resident whom everyone here knows as “Mouse.” “We helped make him who he was.”

As Biden makes his third run for the presidency, he is once again trying to navigate the tricky terrain of race. His Democratic opponents have accused him of being on the wrong side of busing and crime legislation, as well as being overly accommodating to segregationist senators.
...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-a-wilmington-pool-pranks-nicknames-and-the-racial-education-of-joe-biden/2019/07/12/29fcc8fc-a191-11e9-b732-41a79c2551bf_story.html
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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2020, 10:43:29 PM »
Obama is part of establishment. He lobbied all the candidates to drop out and endorse Biden. What a fraud! Obama is fake. When he came to kenya instead of giving us more trade he started demanding we respect gays. Uhuru was right to tell him that homosexuality was a non issue in Kenya. By the way Africans have this philosophy that a kid born cannot be discarded and so it has to be given the ability to live even when it has traits that are not in norm. A lot of Kikuyus families have gay men that allowed to live their life underground. Binyanyanya wainana parents knew he was gay as hell but they let him be. my childhood friend uncle was gay and he lived in Mombasa. he would come home during christmas with a earing on his ear. His family would welcome him happily and feast him. He was our beloved uncle from Mombatha.. So for that son of gun to come and tell us as kikuyus to respect gays was insulting our people. he didn't know what the the fuck he was talking about. In kenya malayas and other social misfits are allowed to live without being harrassed by cops. In USA a whore will be arrested and harrassed by cops. African Americans are the most homophobic arseholes in the whole world. In Washington DC they are killing transgender Men like flies. Obama should first deal with shit in his own hood before he tries to talk shit about our kenyan culture. Fuck him again and again

Anyway fuck Obama, Fuck that havard uneducated disrespectful motherfucker.

Lol that's alot of vitriol Plato. LGBTQ are human beings that need to be respected and protected from hypocritical psycos who think they speak for God. God created everyone in his own wisdom. Live and let leave, donge? At least that's my attitude to these matters.

Now onto the topic at hand - lobbying people to quit and back Biden is not fraud. It is legit politics. You can say Obama acted poorly and should have waited for the nominee to back him- instead of picking favorites. Judgement and choices. Fraud is like forwarding debate questions in advance to Hillary - mwakenya - happened for real in 2016. Also using superdelegates to crown a loser is fraudulent in a way. Hii ingine ni siasa tu ya kawaida.

Sanders must expose the unfairness of the DNC/establishment... and their corporate and MSM allies. Biden needs to be called out for his dubious record and logical incoherence. It will tank him if not now in the general elections.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2020, 10:58:44 PM »
Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.

That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.

I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.

I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2020, 02:28:29 AM »
Warren is a player angling for offers. Her failure to endorse has nothing to do with Sanders or even Biden. She's unprincipled and will settle for the best last-minute offer... doesn't truly believe in progressive politics.

That said if offered VP by Sanders she could help him deliver soccer moms and the working class. A good idea.

I doubt she would. She seems to have beef with Bernie, ever since she tried to #metoo him in Jan and no one believed her, lol, even Morning Joe on MSNBC was like c'mon. She's been bitter ever since and piled more easily debunked lies on him. Maybe she wanted Bernie to get behind her when she surged at around the time of his heart thing? Idk. In any case, I really doubt it'd help Bernie now: Might've been helpful be4 Super Tuesday as the Amy crew was gathering behind Biden. I think now it's 90% chance Biden is the nominee. If I were Bernie, I'd build a third party. Not to run for 2020 presidency necessarily but for other seats as well as to have an independent voice that can actually negotiate with the DNC to adopt its important agendas in exchange for support in the general. After all, the DNC keeps saying he's not really a Democrat, he might as well go all the way. It'd draw in a lot of independents too, and independent-leaning Republicans who favor economic populism. If progressives don't start their own party, they will be forever a voiceless footstool who are told point-blank that even if they win the votes they won't get the nomination.

I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.

Elizabeth Warren seems to be doing just fine as a progressive Democrat though.  Bernie also caucuses with Democrats in congress.  I suspect mostly because he can't help it.  I mean the other option would be to support the Nazis.  Does he have any plan on how to put his policies in place?
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Harriet Tubman

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2020, 06:38:56 AM »
I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.

Yes, the danger of running as a third-party in the general is that you're most likely going to help the pple farthest removed from your ideas/agenda. That's why I don't think they should necessarily run a presidential candidate of their own, except maybe as a threat only: "Give us a little something, like Med4all, and we throw our full weight behind you—Compromise, compromise."

The benefits of a bonafide American Labour Party that runs independently of the DNC is, of course, organizing and mobilizing which makes negotiations possible: You really can better control who your people back. When they're under a group with a very different agenda, they are fractured and voiceless: Weak. In addition, I think with the grassroots work done by Bernie in 2016 and now, it would be much better positioned than Gary Johnson, the Green Party etc. They simply don't have the level of recognition and support Bernie does: they'll prolly join his Labor Party if he forms it--Jill Stein would, not sure of Johnson. There is a significant chunk of Right-leaning pple who are into economic populism too: they just don't like the woke stuff. So if Bernie forms that party, you might just see a similarly significant thing start happening on the Right, i.e. another Party breaking away from the RNC: the RNC and DNC both maintain their choke-holds over huge swathes of the population by making each other the fearsome boogieman and selling this to their constituents 247 using their various MSMs. Or, maybe a chunk of Right economic populists may just join Bernie's party even if they dislike some stuff. It's either this or rolling over for the establishment for good, IMHO. It's worth a shot.

Bernie has a plan for every single social program he has proposed: How to fund it, how to take care of workers dependent on the old system who would be left out, and how to use the bully-pulpit of POTUS to push individual law-makers into supporting it for their own political survival. That's exactly how powerful lobies have been keeping them in line; they make it a matter of survival for them: "Support me or I'll fund your opponent." But POTUS can be used powerfully to campaign in these very states/districts: if these guys are exposed to their immediate constituents, showing them the relationship btw how their particular chosen law-maker votes and WHO funds them, in a 1:1 relationship, it puts them in a precarious situation. It's only if they have to choose btw survival and their donors that they'll tell their donors to screw off for a minute. Then pass laws to publicly fund campaigns and kill the relationship between private money and who gets into office.

There's a reason they are terrified of him and it's not 'He'll lose to Trump'.

PS: Elizabeth's 'plan' for Med4all is to wait until Republicans retake the houses before asking for single-payer, lmao. There's a reason her support plummetted the moment she came out with her "plans", pple saw right through them which made her look like a fake/planted progressive to huge chunks of her supporters.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2020, 07:08:58 AM »
I think that is why Sanders runs as an independent - freedom to preach progressive ethos. It is quite hard for progressives to create a major 3rd party or movement - because the 2party system is an entrenched dictatorship. Ross Perot tanked Bush Sr, Ralph Nader tanked Gore, Gary Johnson could have tanked Trump... that's as far as it gets. Progressives' archilles heel is their idealism - because any extreme idea is an ideal until its reality. It is easier for Sanders to tank Biden/Dems than to meaningfully alter their policy - they said it themselves they rather Trump carries on. At worst they would pretend to badge over the elections but later disown any agreement.

Yes, the danger of running as a third-party in the general is that you're most likely going to help the pple farthest removed from your ideas/agenda. That's why I don't think they should necessarily run a presidential candidate of their own, except maybe as a threat only: "Give us a little something, like Med4all, and we throw our full weight behind you—Compromise, compromise."

The benefits of a bonafide American Labour Party that runs independently of the DNC is, of course, organizing and mobilizing which makes negotiations possible: You really can better control who your people back. When they're under a group with a very different agenda, they are fractured and voiceless: Weak. In addition, I think with the grassroots work done by Bernie in 2016 and now, it would be much better positioned than Gary Johnson, the Green Party etc. They simply don't have the level of recognition and support Bernie does: they'll prolly join his Labor Party if he forms it--Jill Stein would, not sure of Johnson. There is a significant chunk of Right-leaning pple who are into economic populism too: they just don't like the woke stuff. So if Bernie forms that party, you might just see a similarly significant thing start happening on the Right, i.e. another Party breaking away from the RNC: the RNC and DNC both survive by making each other the fearsome boogieman and selling this to their constituents 247 using their various MSMs. Or, maybe even a chunk of Right economic populists may join Bernie's party even if they dislike some stuff. It's either this or rolling over for the establishment for good, IMHO. It's worth a shot.

Bernie has a plan for every single social program he has proposed: How to fund it, how to take care of workers dependent on the old system who would be left out, and how to use the bully-pulpit of POTUS to push individual law-makers into supporting it for their own political survival. There's a reason they are terrified of him and it's not 'He'll lose to Trump'. Elizabeth's 'plan' for Med4all is to wait until Republicans retake the houses before asking for single-payer, lmao. There's a reason her support plummetted the moment she came out with her "plans", pple saw right through them which made her look like a fake/planted progressive to huge chunks of her supporters.

Where and how does he plan to get the votes for for medicare for all to pick just one?  Bully pulpit?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

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Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2020, 12:52:02 PM »
Warren has permanently lost her base to Sanders but the suburban soccer moms core. She is a fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.

Pushing reforms from within is a slow but steady strategy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates voting window back to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and did little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.

Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 02:59:18 PM by Robina »
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2020, 02:08:28 PM »
Warren has permanently her base but the suburban  soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.

Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.

Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.


He would have made the blue states bluer.  Which was not Hillary’s problem.  His support can boost someone in a primary.  But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal.  He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2020, 03:16:36 PM »
Warren has permanently her base but the suburban  soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.

Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.

Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.


He would have made the blue states bluer.  Which was not Hillary’s problem.  His support can boost someone in a primary.  But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal.  He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.

Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.

Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2020, 05:46:38 PM »
Warren has permanently her base but the suburban  soccer moms core. She is fake progressive and in fact a saboteur - look at her now still failing to back Sanders.

Pushing reforms from within is slow but steady straegy. Sanders managed to push the superdelegates to the convention by demanding their scrapping. They feared he would torpedo Hillary if they did not compromise. He was lukewarm in the general and little to aid her. His med4all and green transformation are now mainstream debates.

Compare to the dismal performance of the British Green Party or Lib Dems. 3rd parties are easily scapegoated as spoilers - what Boris did to the Brexit Party. It does cause the big party to broaden their policy umbrella but I wonder if it is as effective as the push from within.


He would have made the blue states bluer.  Which was not Hillary’s problem.  His support can boost someone in a primary.  But he doesn’t have cross-over appeal.  He is tribal and that can’t work for Democrats.

Sanders has an appeal to the fringe of hippies and students who will never show up even for Biden. Same as Trump's deplorables. These group is everywhere including purple states - where part of them indeed voted Trump to scorn the DNC. Especially students or young voters. But also Latinos - Arizona, Kansas, Wisconsin, Indiana. These purple states went Trump marginally.

Trump's strength is not the centrist/independent vote but the deplorables. I bet he will spruce up a new "build the wall" rallying cry. Biden with his charisma of a dump rag will have little to match.

I agree that Trump’s appeal is not to moderates.  But it is standard Republican fare in its appeal to racists.  The dog whistle approach tweaked by a MAGA bullhorn. 

With few exceptions, that appeal resonates with the same crowd.  Those poor folks have always voted Republican not because of economics, but in spite of it, because the GOP is a vehicle for putting the Negro in his place.

IMO  the lesson in Trump’s wafer thin EC victory is there is still one or two last hurrahs, as opposed to zero, left in that approach.  Not some unmatchable charisma by a man who can barely string together a coherent sentence.  It is still gradually losing its viability despite the distortion of the noise that often accompanies winning.

I believe Trump benefitted from Hillary’s historical unpopularity - they both were historically unpopular nominees  -  to eke out a victory in the Electoral College.  Biden is not that way.  I also think he can appeal to those who dumped the GOP after Trump.  But more importantly, he can excite the relevant demographics in the Midwest and PA that Hillary failed to get.

"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2020, 06:06:54 PM »
The Establishment is the definition of tribalism. Sanders doesn't demonize voters from the Right or supporters of his competitors. It's from the establishment you get such nuggets as 'deplorables', 'brown shirts' 'Bernie bros' 'Obama boys' and all the other epithets that target voters rather than politicians. You will not find any such thing from Bernie. Even when he attacks competitors he keeps it policy, never personal; even when he doesn't get the same courtesy, to the chagrin of his supporters. Tribalism is literally the survival MO of the DNC and RNC establishments. Russiagate, conspiracy theories, and demonizing the other side 247 to keep their base in line even while they ultimately serve the same masters. It's from progressives that I've found nuanced analyses and a genuine attempt to understand Trump voters, for example. The 'establishment' are content to reduce their motive to 'racism' and be satisfied with their own perceived moral superiority. No one is more tribal than the Establishment.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2020, 06:20:59 PM »
The Establishment is the definition of tribalism. Sanders doesn't demonize voters from the Right or supporters of his competitors. It's from the establishment you get such nuggets as 'deplorables', 'brown shirts' 'Bernie bros' 'Obama boys' and all the other epithets that target voters rather than politicians. You will not find any such thing from Bernie. Even when he attacks competitors he keeps it policy, never personal; even when he doesn't get the same courtesy, to the chagrin of his supporters. Tribalism is literally the survival MO of the DNC and RNC establishments. Russiagate, conspiracy theories, and demonizing the other side 247 to keep their base in line even while they ultimately serve the same masters. It's from progressives that I've found nuanced analyses and a genuine attempt to understand Trump voters, for example. The 'establishment' are content to reduce their motive to 'racism' and be satisfied with their own perceived moral superiority. No one is more tribal than the Establishment.

How about hinting that everybody that doesn't sing from the same script is a corporate shill or "the establishment"?  Would that count in this definition of tribalism?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

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Re: I hope Democrats lose - Obama is the biggest fraud
« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2020, 07:16:15 PM »
Quote
How about hinting that everybody that doesn't sing from the same script is a corporate shill or "the establishment"?  Would that count in this definition of tribalism?

Your use of 'hinting' indicates you're not referring to anything I actually said. You will not find anything I said that was aimed at denigrating the Dem voting base.

"Trump-lover" as a response to a critique of a candidate or the DNC/MSM/Corporate machinery...Now that sounds like the kind of thing that screams tribal mentality. Yes, 'establishment shill' is an accurate description of someone who can only bring that to a debate. I'm also sure 'establishment' never refers to laypeople/voters/base and my use of the term has not blurred that anywhere.

In any case, if I gave that impression, I assure you that's not what I think or what I meant. I draw sharp distinctions btw the machinery and regular folk.