Author Topic: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals  (Read 16133 times)

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2019, 02:44:16 PM »
Can you guys point out what private sector isn't doing right? I pointed out something Jubilee could've done very easily and cheaply, and you guys' answer is that the private sector should do their part: but what part? I don't know why you can't bring yourselves to admit the blundering. The people are not blaming the govt for something they should be and are not doing for themselves. They are not supposed to magic roads and cheap forms of transport and sources of credit/capital if the govt has not set up the conditions for these to be available in the first place :D Kenyans are a very hardworking and resourceful people. If only they had a govt to match them.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2019, 03:25:41 PM »
In short Kadame and Socrates you cannot have the cake. Economic development has evolved since Adam Smith. Ndii has in fact urged to wean off the sugarcane and maize addiction. The GoK wonks or mandarins can only lay the big picture. Even BBI or political reforms can only do so much. Accountability is not all about sleaze; it is debating the best strategy, policy or investment. But the tire must meet the road after the roads, rail, last-miles or subways. Businesses, enterprising Kenyans and investors must ultimately hit the road hard. The private sector is almost always behind the rise of the Tigers and such success stories.

Demographic dividend is all about MANPOWER. Short of civil war the population trend bumbleheads are calling cooked is a strong signal. Other than UhuruCare, education and TIVET - I see few better strategies to tap it than infrastructure.

You can always share what artfuls you have in mind? Reform the decision making; restructure the debt;  nip instability in the bud; recalibrate. DO SOMETHING. Intransigence or plain cynicism is not a solution. That's Ndiism. :)

You are a techie that likes shiny things like Apple. Kenya has to grow the actual apples before it can build a phone. You can't climb development tree from top. Maslow hierarchy of needs first

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2019, 03:36:46 PM »
You know for sure our work ethic compared to say the west is nothing to write home about. You know most of our people wake up to drink alcohol and if not bet. In that regard, Jubilee has done very well to try to discourage some of those vices. Waitutu has done well in Kiambu.

You know gov has build roads, rails, and etc - and now it's upon kenyans to cultivate more crops & use those roads for business.

There is no denying that many Kenyans are out there looking at politicians and politicking thinking they are the source and solution to their miseries while Indians who don't care about politics are making the dough.

We watch news like it's a life and death issues.

Kenyans need to start working and stop politicking. Those still giving birth to 10 kids need to also stop. Those out there making wrong life choices every day are the ones that bring the country down.

Can you guys point out what private sector isn't doing right? I pointed out something Jubilee could've done very easily and cheaply, and you guys' answer is that the private sector should do their part: but what part? I don't know why you can't bring yourselves to admit the blundering. The people are not blaming the govt for something they should be and are not doing for themselves. They are not supposed to magic roads and cheap forms of transport and sources of credit/capital if the govt has not set up the conditions for these to be available in the first place :D Kenyans are a very hardworking and resourceful people. If only they had a govt to match them.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2019, 04:50:01 PM »
You know for sure our work ethic compared to say the west is nothing to write home about. You know most of our people wake up to drink alcohol and if not bet. In that regard, Jubilee has done very well to try to discourage some of those vices. Waitutu has done well in Kiambu.

You know gov has build roads, rails, and etc - and now it's upon kenyans to cultivate more crops & use those roads for business.

There is no denying that many Kenyans are out there looking at politicians and politicking thinking they are the source and solution to their miseries while Indians who don't care about politics are making the dough.

We watch news like it's a life and death issues.

Kenyans need to start working and stop politicking. Those still giving birth to 10 kids need to also stop. Those out there making wrong life choices every day are the ones that bring the country down.

Can you guys point out what private sector isn't doing right? I pointed out something Jubilee could've done very easily and cheaply, and you guys' answer is that the private sector should do their part: but what part? I don't know why you can't bring yourselves to admit the blundering. The people are not blaming the govt for something they should be and are not doing for themselves. They are not supposed to magic roads and cheap forms of transport and sources of credit/capital if the govt has not set up the conditions for these to be available in the first place :D Kenyans are a very hardworking and resourceful people. If only they had a govt to match them.

I don't believe it's work ethic.  The African's willingness to work is very evident in the way he busts his ass every day toiling.  In my experience bazungu do burn quite a bit of time at work gossiping and otherwise doing non-work related shit.  Federal employees are barely better than what you have in Kenya - generally an unmotivated bunch.  I think it does not work for Africans since their efforts come to nought because of a different economic arrangement - I can't quite put a finger on it but it seems like something an economic guru can name. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2019, 05:13:30 PM »
You have a point. How do Chinese tough manage to do this.

I don't believe it's work ethic.  The African's willingness to work is very evident in the way he busts his ass every day toiling.  In my experience bazungu do burn quite a bit of time at work gossiping and otherwise doing non-work related shit.  Federal employees are barely better than what you have in Kenya - generally an unmotivated bunch.  I think it does not work for Africans since their efforts come to nought because of a different economic arrangement - I can't quite put a finger on it but it seems like something an economic guru can name. 

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2019, 05:21:37 PM »
You have a point. How do Chinese tough manage to do this.

I don't believe it's work ethic.  The African's willingness to work is very evident in the way he busts his ass every day toiling.  In my experience bazungu do burn quite a bit of time at work gossiping and otherwise doing non-work related shit.  Federal employees are barely better than what you have in Kenya - generally an unmotivated bunch.  I think it does not work for Africans since their efforts come to nought because of a different economic arrangement - I can't quite put a finger on it but it seems like something an economic guru can name. 

I am not sure.  I suspect just how they are organized economically.  Kind of like an ant colony.  Everybody knows their job.  But there is a whole to it, that goes above the individual.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #66 on: November 21, 2019, 05:24:43 PM »
Don't be so lenient - GoK performs better than the average Kenyan by a mile. Not just individuals - my take on likes of Safaricom and KCB - and Cellulant who are basking in the glory of netting a meagre 50m usd in VC. They have no intent to go global otherwise why be so wowed by such peanuts? You need a B usd to scale Africa. I'm reliably told Safaricom's Little Cab is a joke. A buddy was stuck in a stuffy cab, sealed windows, driver was shaky like a recovering alcoholic. 3ice same experience - she moved on to Uber. Plus their dead as dodo Masoko. Now they just hired Tusker salesman as the new visionary... after scouting around for years. :o

KQ... you know what I think of their "nationalization" and recovery plans.

KCB has a VC fund..  the Lion's Den something. I thought I could check it out before I discovered the seed amount is 10K usd  :-\ :( :o

MSME pushed for rate caps - then demanded their lifting 2 yrs later. Now they are crying about it again.

All the Ubers, Jumias and Amazons running circles around Kenyan business are foreign. Seems the FDI is better than locals at utilizing the ease-of-business index. Even the SEZ are barely really utilized.

GoK trying out Galana experiment - where are the large scale farmers and agritech entrepreneurs? I heard something about Equity yet to materialize. Oops - SunCulture, One Acre Fund, Komaza - all foreign. Likes of BRCK creating real tech are from RSA.

I could go on.. the Kenyan is not all that and punches way below his weight. We argued sometimes what is the biggest cause of poverty. Most people think Jomo and Moi or Kibaki stole all their money. But the self- effort and exertion and hard work and determination are the biggest differentiator I see between the west and Kenya.

You know for sure our work ethic compared to say the west is nothing to write home about. You know most of our people wake up to drink alcohol and if not bet. In that regard, Jubilee has done very well to try to discourage some of those vices. Waitutu has done well in Kiambu.

You know gov has build roads, rails, and etc - and now it's upon kenyans to cultivate more crops & use those roads for business.

There is no denying that many Kenyans are out there looking at politicians and politicking thinking they are the source and solution to their miseries while Indians who don't care about politics are making the dough.

We watch news like it's a life and death issues.

Kenyans need to start working and stop politicking. Those still giving birth to 10 kids need to also stop. Those out there making wrong life choices every day are the ones that bring the country down.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2019, 05:52:34 PM »
You are a techie that likes shiny things like Apple. Kenya has to grow the actual apples before it can build a phone. You can't climb development tree from top. Maslow hierarchy of needs first

Nope. Opportunity is a constant but very dynamic. In the 70s agric could lift a society due to low competition. Then commodities - oil, steel, minerals. Then manufacturing. Now we are onto services. The field is more level than in the past - with global market, platforms, talent, capital, etc.

Having missed out on past opportunities - it's pointless to bet on low value agric as a growth driver. Do it but don't solely bet on it. I advocate rural murram and largescale farming - which needs alot of business and commercial setups. Peasantry cannot even support the nuclear family anymore.

Manufacturing as the definite leapfrog is gone. Cause automation. No more mass employment.

The best success factor in the offing is the demographic dividend. Which needs an environment - of tertiary skills and such - capital is global. Infra is not - you must build it - it can't be imported. It's also mostly a public affair cause there is no private infra. So you see it's preferable for GoK to build than worry so much about the credit market.  What you need is to refactor the debt. Recalibrate the infra strategy. SGR is sub-optimal timing because am for city subway as first priority. But intercity rail will become handy in a relatively short time. SGR is merely sub-optimal in timing - not plain wrong.

I disagree with last-miles because, although manufacturing is not the ideal focus now - development invariably means urbanization. Unlike SGR this is more potentially a waste. Housing will take care of itself. As for universal health GoK should definitely nick it.

Show us an opportunity better than demographic dividend - a real potential windfall - and a better way to milk it - than what Kibaki and Uhuru have done.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2019, 06:19:36 PM »
Quote
Having missed out on past opportunities - it's pointless to bet on low value agric as a growth driver.

A strawman. :D No one is saying do agric and sit on your behind. A fake dichotomy. What we are saying is you don't get to ignore BASICS like food and 70% of the population while chasing fancy toys and call that common sense. Especially when it costs barely 400 billion to sort the issue. The Govt shouldn't do this because? . . . No reason. They just shouldn't because its not hi-tech enough for your dreams,  :D. The way you're looking at the food/agric problem is not informed by actual, identified (by experts!) problems we have in that sector and their very easy solutions: seasonal farming (storage facilities: now affordable food is available all year round), transport costs (rail and an extensive countrywide road network all connected: now accessible markets are all over the country and the food is cheap). Any surplass that may be generated to be sold elsewhere is just extra. Planning for a skyscrapper without budgeting for food is the economics of an alcoholic parent. Take care of food and the economic activity already depended on by virtually your entire population, then at least that is not sthing you have to worry about as you plan for that fantastic future 'opportunity'. Your points seem to assume we have to choose btw fixing agric/food and everything else. Makes no sense.


Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #69 on: November 21, 2019, 06:24:11 PM »
I raised intelligence once and bitmask called for my lynching.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #70 on: November 21, 2019, 06:32:04 PM »
Kadame: I have heard that tale about granaries. Whenever people starve - it is because they have no money to buy food. The food itself exists otherwise Nairobians or Gusii would also starve. Food security is like housing - unless you can sustainably offer free food stamps - only growth can fix it.

So what happened to the cash handouts program? You think creating granaries in Kitale will stop starving in Turkana? Only ending the poverty in Turkana can fix that.

So the flashy futuristic hi-techs - will create the wealth you need to feed Turkana. Grow the pie and give Nanok 100B to do the work. Granaries... smh.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #71 on: November 21, 2019, 06:53:10 PM »
Kadame: I have heard that tale about granaries. Whenever people starve - it is because they have no money to buy food. The food itself exists otherwise Nairobians or Gusii would also starve. Food security is like housing - unless you can sustainably offer free food stamps - only growth can fix it.

So what happened to the cash handouts program? You think creating granaries in Kitale will stop starving in Turkana? Only ending the poverty in Turkana can fix that.

So, pointing out mo problems with the govt you're defending is helping your point how? :) Besides, cherry-picking just one thing out of the entire solution that has not been implemented makes no sense either. You must fix the transport too. Do you have an actual reason why doing that is a bad idea? Or is it that someone didn't hand out cash, therefore Jubilee is exempted from criticism for not implementing an easy, cheap solution?  Btw, that you've heard of it is not a point: show us what is wrong with it. And the food problem isn't just starving Turkanas, its costs of food for everyone and other things besides.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #72 on: November 21, 2019, 07:08:58 PM »
Quote
So the flashy futuristic hi-techs - will create the wealth you need to feed Turkana. Grow the pie and give Nanok 100B to do the work. Granaries... smh.
As you shake your head, spare some time to explain how fixing the transport and building modern storage facilities (btw, its not just granaries), prevents your flashy futuristic stuff. :) Which world is this you live in where no one chews and walks? Again, 400 billion, just in case you forget and come back with another version of "grow the economy" as the answer for why an agricultural country shouldn't fix its agriculture.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #73 on: November 21, 2019, 07:25:49 PM »
As you shake your head, spare some time to explain how fixing the transport and building modern storage facilities (btw, its not just granaries), prevents your flashy futuristic stuff. :) Which world is this you live in where no one chews and walks? Again, 400 billion, just in case you forget and come back with another version of "grow the economy" as the answer for why an agricultural country shouldn't fix its agriculture.

So there are no roads in Turkana or Mandera. Storage facility problems don't cause starving in Turkana or anywhere. Poverty does. There is no day people die because Kenya has run out of food. I doubt those massive GoK food silos ever fill.

In the arable areas, the biggest cause of poverty is the subdivision of land by rapid population growth. Only largescale farming is sustainable. You have seen people in Mau claiming they have nowhere to go. Storage and transport are the least cause of agric failure.

GoK should definitely facilitate the flashy futuristic stuff - they are a bigger priority than storage facilities. They can end  poverty. Galana for instance - if you crack GMO at scale it's a home run. People have been starving to death seasonally in Kenya - as silofuls of maize sit in Kitale.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2019, 07:45:44 PM »
As you shake your head, spare some time to explain how fixing the transport and building modern storage facilities (btw, its not just granaries), prevents your flashy futuristic stuff. :) Which world is this you live in where no one chews and walks? Again, 400 billion, just in case you forget and come back with another version of "grow the economy" as the answer for why an agricultural country shouldn't fix its agriculture.
So there are no roads in Turkana or Mandera.

:) What a shocker! The girl claiming she's all about investing in infrastructure thinks we have a functional intra-country transport network :D No, dear. Sorry to burst that bubble. We do not have nearly an adequate transport system that connects farmers to the whole country at a cheap cost. Again, it seems you cannot answer why the govt building this network and connecting it to the old rail (modernized) is a bad thing. And our farming is small scale, yes! The idea that only large scale farmers can do profitable farming is just more of that flashy-thinking: There's no reason small scale farmers cannot produce at a profit if they're uninhindered by problems like transport, especially supported by a responsible government that educates them on diversity in their farming. The flashy staff has destroyed our capacity to invest in anything now, and you're here busy telling us we should do it without taking care of basics. Marie Antoinette economics.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2019, 08:03:33 PM »
Those Kamaminomics are just Ndiism. All those agric sectors that have gone bust - sugarcane, coffee,maize - are not caused by lack of intra-country roads. Subsistence farmers can hardly make ends meet due to the dwindling arable land. So most abandon that loss business and move to town to run kiosks. Agric cannot grow the economy - just like manufacturing - because there will be no more coffee booms. The flashy hitec stuff - the present you call futuristic - is the current opportunity.

But it's okay to worry about basics - like that's new - if your small mind cannot think beyond that. You can argue the reverse - how do my big ideas stop you from thinking basics? Your small mind keeps you there - not me. No, there is no economic crisis that will stop GoK from dealing with "basics". Cause you are plain wrong on that as the hinderance to growth.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2019, 08:16:35 PM »
Kadame: I have heard that tale about granaries. Whenever people starve - it is because they have no money to buy food. The food itself exists otherwise Nairobians or Gusii would also starve. Food security is like housing - unless you can sustainably offer free food stamps - only growth can fix it.

So what happened to the cash handouts program? You think creating granaries in Kitale will stop starving in Turkana? Only ending the poverty in Turkana can fix that.

So the flashy futuristic hi-techs - will create the wealth you need to feed Turkana. Grow the pie and give Nanok 100B to do the work. Granaries... smh.
Exactly

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2019, 08:17:44 PM »
I raised intelligence once and bitmask called for my lynching.

:lol:.  I once thought that way too.  But there are equally "stupid" people in the West.  I think African talent and labor is either underutilized or wrongly deployed.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2019, 08:19:27 PM »
As you shake your head, spare some time to explain how fixing the transport and building modern storage facilities (btw, its not just granaries), prevents your flashy futuristic stuff. :) Which world is this you live in where no one chews and walks? Again, 400 billion, just in case you forget and come back with another version of "grow the economy" as the answer for why an agricultural country shouldn't fix its agriculture.
So there are no roads in Turkana or Mandera.

:) What a shocker! The girl claiming she's all about investing in infrastructure thinks we have a functional intra-country transport network :D No, dear. Sorry to burst that bubble. We do not have nearly an adequate transport system that connects farmers to the whole country at a cheap cost. Again, it seems you cannot answer why the govt building this network and connecting it to the old rail (modernized) is a bad thing. And our farming is small scale, yes! The idea that only large scale farmers can do profitable farming is just more of that flashy-thinking: There's no reason small scale farmers cannot produce at a profit if they're uninhindered by problems like transport, especially supported by a responsible government that educates them on diversity in their farming. The flashy staff has destroyed our capacity to invest in anything now, and you're here busy telling us we should do it without taking care of basics. Marie Antoinette economics.
A tie.I agree small holder farming is profitable.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Treasury in a desperate move raids parastatals
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2019, 08:21:23 PM »
I raised intelligence once and bitmask called for my lynching.

:lol:.  I once thought that way too.  But there are equally "stupid" people in the West.  I think African talent and labor is either underutilized or wrongly deployed.
Agreed.