Author Topic: Pundit I warned you to watch Moses Kuria carefully  (Read 15348 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2019, 01:48:52 PM »
Yes federalism will solve many of Nairobi problems. No point collecting money centrally and then sub-dividing them. Counties collected 40B last year - while they received about 300B - so there is hope that if counties are allowed to levy taxes - keep income taxes for employees in their counties - and VAT - they can self-finance - with national resources (like custom duties) being used to build super-highways, rails and such national projects.
Robina,

This isn't about tanga tanga or kieleweke, Mt. kenya is against a pure parliamentary system if constituencies' voters' inequality isn't addressed.  The BBI should propose federalism and address property rights. By that I mean individuals should own the minerals and resource that's beyond 6ft. The turkana's should be selling exploration rights to their land instead of getting handouts from national government. 
Even if so called  parliamentary proportional representation wont pass easily cause no one would trust the political parties in kenya to decide who to represent voters. Actually kagwanja had forewarned BBI about this https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/opinion/Is-Raila-parliamentary-push-aiding-Ruto-State-House-bid/440808-5291018-bxorc4z/index.html , this will amount to guaranteeing Ruto becomes the president.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2019, 01:51:30 PM »
Kenyans are too obsessed wity ethnic identity. I do not think parliamentary system would hurt kikuyus. Kenyan elites need to snap out of this tribal nonsense quickly it is a waste to time

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2019, 07:20:00 PM »
So one theory out there is Kiunjuri is going rogue so he can be fired and he start campaigning for DPork.

Looks like it. Ruto is angling for soft landing going by his changing tune. In that case parliamentary will kick in unanimously. But tyre will still meet the road when Uhuru declare 3rd term. The Kiunjuris and all Gema hard work will collapse as Ruto will need new partner to counter Uhuru-Raila combo. He will need to shop for Luhya - after being floored in Kibra :)
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2019, 07:27:51 PM »
Robina,

This isn't about tanga tanga or kieleweke, Mt. kenya is against a pure parliamentary system if constituencies' voters' inequality isn't addressed.  The BBI should propose federalism and address property rights. By that I mean individuals should own the minerals and resource that's beyond 6ft. The turkana's should be selling exploration rights to their land instead of getting handouts from national government. 
Even if so called  parliamentary proportional representation wont pass easily cause no one would trust the political parties in kenya to decide who to represent voters. Actually kagwanja had forewarned BBI about this https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/opinion/Is-Raila-parliamentary-push-aiding-Ruto-State-House-bid/440808-5291018-bxorc4z/index.html , this will amount to guaranteeing Ruto becomes the president.

Come srowry ndugu. Life is not all about the Kikuyu. The entire Kenya will vote. That is why Ruto has surrendered - because only Kikuyu and Kalenjin are against parliamentary equity and more devolution. Even Duale has abandoned him. If Ruto capitulates as is being gossiped - new system kicks in smoothly - it will be a new ballgame. Kikuyus will have to decide between Ruto and Uhuru - the hyena and the goat. :) Expect jilted Babu to take sweet revenge by backing Uhuru for PM.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2019, 07:32:26 PM »
Btw hk, that Ephraim Maina and Kiunjuri nonsense about Kikuyu being underrepresented is BS. 3 out of 4 PORKs...  :o don't even start on the capex favoritism. We know the equity aggregate formula for MP boundaries. Kalenjin or Somali live in vast arid areas with few roads or infra - so they seem over-represented. You could argue Nairobi is the most underrepresented - with the highest headcount per MP - but the geography factor says no. it just porojo - otherwise let's wait and see 42-v-2. Try to convince Luhya they will be favorites in 2032 :) - so in the meantime they should reject 40% devolution.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline hk

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2019, 09:35:54 PM »
Come srowry ndugu. Life is not all about the Kikuyu. The entire Kenya will vote. That is why Ruto has surrendered - because only Kikuyu and Kalenjin are against parliamentary equity and more devolution. Even Duale has abandoned him. If Ruto capitulates as is being gossiped - new system kicks in smoothly - it will be a new ballgame. Kikuyus will have to decide between Ruto and Uhuru - the hyena and the goat. :) Expect jilted Babu to take sweet revenge by backing Uhuru for PM.
I am not disputing that the whole thing its about kenya. I am just pointing out that rejecting BBI proposal of pure parliamentary system will gain sway in mt.kenya region. Would it even make a difference who's president if the system works, no. The most important thing is to have a federal system whether in a parliamentary system or presidential. Then address limits of government reach on property rights.. Those are things that should matter.
To be honest uhuru will have very little influence going forward. Just like kibaki and his men couldn't force mt. kenya to vote for Mudavadi.

Offline hk

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2019, 09:42:02 PM »
Btw hk, that Ephraim Maina and Kiunjuri nonsense about Kikuyu being underrepresented is BS. 3 out of 4 PORKs...  :o don't even start on the capex favoritism. We know the equity aggregate formula for MP boundaries. Kalenjin or Somali live in vast arid areas with few roads or infra - so they seem over-represented. You could argue Nairobi is the most underrepresented - with the highest headcount per MP - but the geography factor says no. it just porojo - otherwise let's wait and see 42-v-2. Try to convince Luhya they will be favorites in 2032 :) - so in the meantime they should reject 40% devolution.
I fully appreciate the delicate balance needed to address vast geographical constituencies versus densely populated constituencies. That's why a federal system would help to mitigate the problem. Afterall what matters is resources and how those resources are controlled.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2019, 12:43:27 AM »
Federalism would devolve graft. The DCI raids on KRA or customs at Port Mombasa come to mind. Counties have failed in health so I say take devolution slowly. Start with a workable transition system - like the rumored National Health Service or something. Taxation is not a joke - it is the backbone of the state after security. Would counties be allowed to determine VAT or PAYE besides council rates? It's a complex function. I see no challenge with KRA/CRA model provided the threshold is raised to 40% or so. It's federalism minus the tribal, religious or political risk of excess autonomy. And that still needs careful transition of more functions. NHS and such central bodies can be phased out with time.

Now, devolving all resources won't save us. It is a process same as democracy. Counties are incompetent and equally corrupt. You can't devolve everything to please Kikuyu or Kalenjin - you must have a central hold, cohesion, synergy and economies of scale. Global std is 40% in US, Germany, Canada, RSA, etc. No matter the % of revenue share the power duopoly in Nairobi needs to end. If you agree MP boundaries are equitable, you can equally see how one-man-one-vote is an unfair system. I mean even the US - literally the only successful democracy with direct vote - has an electoral college to reign majority dictatorship. California and New York are Kikuyu and Kalenjin. Populous states are diluted. 90% of the rest of the progressive countries are parliamentary.

The entitled Kikuyu will get over it. 1963 Kenya was parliamentary and federal but was rigged by greedy corrupt Jomo with Moi and Mboya's help. Atoning sins of the father would be Uhuru's greatest legacy. But the biggest losers will be Kalenjin whose population is accelerating as Gema dwindle. We have buttressed the pros and cons of the systems here and you were MIA. I also heard Jubilee had no opinion about BBI. It's not clear why their bedrocks' sudden bustle and bother. Let us go for the fairer, more accountable system.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2019, 12:50:45 AM »
After discarding the moronic one-man-one-vote, next fix first-past-the-post. Proportional representation is more equitable. You see the EU states with MMPR are not as divided and unequal as the UK and their Brexit shambols and chaos.

Kenya and Africa can be progressive. This is bigger than Ruto and Raila.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline hk

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2019, 08:48:26 AM »
After discarding the moronic one-man-one-vote, next fix first-past-the-post. Proportional representation is more equitable. You see the EU states with MMPR are not as divided and unequal as the UK and their Brexit shambols and chaos.

Kenya and Africa can be progressive. This is bigger than Ruto and Raila.
Proportional representation is more equitable but something has to be done about political parties if we're to have a functioning system. Federalism; the counties should get a percentage of all the revenue derived from the counties. BTW the biggest winners in this arrangement wont be mt.kenya region. But this is the way to go. We need to encourage counties to be productive. Its only fair for individuals to derive income from resources in their area. Muranga farmers earn from their fertile soils, the same should apply to kwale residents who's area is endowed with titanium deposits.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2019, 09:36:46 AM »
Yes Nigeria have such a system - where VAT & PAYE - are shared between 3 levels...with agreed upon percentages. The states keep most of the taxes. But like Robina says - we need to a little cautious with handing counties more power - until they have built capacity for this. So for me another 10yrs - before we add more functions. Let them prove they can manage health - then we will add education and some security - and that will be when real federalism can kick in.

As for system of gov - it won't matter - we will see the usual faces winning.

Proportional representation is more equitable but something has to be done about political parties if we're to have a functioning system. Federalism; the counties should get a percentage of all the revenue derived from the counties. BTW the biggest winners in this arrangement wont be mt.kenya region. But this is the way to go. We need to encourage counties to be productive. Its only fair for individuals to derive income from resources in their area. Muranga farmers earn from their fertile soils, the same should apply to kwale residents who's area is endowed with titanium deposits.

Offline hk

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2019, 11:49:39 AM »
Yes Nigeria have such a system - where VAT & PAYE - are shared between 3 levels...with agreed upon percentages. The states keep most of the taxes. But like Robina says - we need to a little cautious with handing counties more power - until they have built capacity for this. So for me another 10yrs - before we add more functions. Let them prove they can manage health - then we will add education and some security - and that will be when real federalism can kick in.

As for system of gov - it won't matter - we will see the usual faces winning.

Proportional representation is more equitable but something has to be done about political parties if we're to have a functioning system. Federalism; the counties should get a percentage of all the revenue derived from the counties. BTW the biggest winners in this arrangement wont be mt.kenya region. But this is the way to go. We need to encourage counties to be productive. Its only fair for individuals to derive income from resources in their area. Muranga farmers earn from their fertile soils, the same should apply to kwale residents who's area is endowed with titanium deposits.
Yes counties need to increase their capacity but also national government need to fully devolve the functions. Take health, the national government has a huge budget and still retains most of the functions. If you devolve functions also devolve funds, there's no reason why national government should have a budget of almost ksh100b. Its the reason why we ended up with idle utilized medical machines at county level.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2019, 12:47:04 PM »
Yes Nigeria have such a system - where VAT & PAYE - are shared between 3 levels...with agreed upon percentages. The states keep most of the taxes. But like Robina says - we need to a little cautious with handing counties more power - until they have built capacity for this. So for me another 10yrs - before we add more functions. Let them prove they can manage health - then we will add education and some security - and that will be when real federalism can kick in.

As for system of gov - it won't matter - we will see the usual faces winning.

Yep. Charismatic folks will always win. Ruto or Raila will be gone in 10 or 20 years and we will be left wit Paul Sang or Babu Owino. But the system will remain.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2019, 10:22:14 PM »
Kuria continue to position himself as Kikuyu defender - told you to watch the cunning fox carefully


I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2019, 10:36:06 PM »
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2019, 10:42:49 PM »
Kuria continue to position himself as Kikuyu defender - told you to watch the cunning fox carefully


kuria is a non starter

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2019, 10:54:01 PM »
Ignore him at your own peril. He missed the group photo-op - the anti BBI - cause it looked like Tanga Tanga. He wants to stand out.
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2019, 12:26:38 AM »
He comes from gatundu south and has not even finish one term in office (5yrs). He is just a busy body with a loud mouth,
Ignore him at your own peril. He missed the group photo-op - the anti BBI - cause it looked like Tanga Tanga. He wants to stand out.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2019, 10:47:17 AM »
Pundit your watermelon need to resume 4am jogging... this pressure will kill him. BBI is like The Animal Farm - where Squealer change the laws at night.:D



Ruto's dilemma over a parliamentary system
DP in Catch-2022 situation as push for changed government structure gains momentum



Quote
Summary

He is walking a tightrope. His support among pastoralist communities too is facing a litmus test as they too back a parliamentary system.

The DP could find himself at cross-purposes with key political lieutenants from the restive Mt Kenya region, which is backing a presidential system.


https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-11-02-rutos-dilemma-over-a-parliamentary-system/
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: 30 mt Kenya MPs rejects BBI parliamentary
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2019, 11:09:21 AM »
Duale dumps Ruto, says 'I'm not anyone's title deed'
01 November 2019 - 14:34

https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-11-01-duale-dumps-ruto-says-im-not-anyones-title-deed/
I desire to go to hell and not to heaven. In the former place I shall enjoy the company of popes, kings, and princes, while in the latter are only beggars, monks, and apostles. ~ Niccolo Machiavelli on his deathbed, June 1527