Predictably, ODM Resists Aukot's antics

[vooke]

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Stands against all of Building Baba Igloo bullshiet

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/ODM-dismisses-Punguza-Mizigo-referendum/1064-5210674-j9l0k2z/index.html

[RV Pundit]

They are helplessly watching Aukot eat their BBI.I see they already sent some poodle to court and are questioning the validity of the signatures.Too late because by October when BBI ends, overwhelming majority of counties would have approved Punguza Mzigo.

[Nefertiti]

Punguza Mzigo is a very good bill with a few rough edges which really need to be fixed. Especially protecting the anti-graft clauses from MPs - cause otherwise they won't last a second. Until BBI comes up with something better for now I support PMI.

[RV Pundit]

Now that is the spirit.

Punguza Mzigo is a very good bill with a few rough edges which really need to be fixed. Especially protecting the anti-graft clauses from MPs - cause otherwise they won't last a second. Until BBI comes up with something better for now I support PMI.

[Nefertiti]

Anti-graft is a very big carrot. Glad to see you have come around to gender parity - after dismissing me indignantly on the subject.

Now that is the spirit.

Punguza Mzigo is a very good bill with a few rough edges which really need to be fixed. Especially protecting the anti-graft clauses from MPs - cause otherwise they won't last a second. Until BBI comes up with something better for now I support PMI.

[RV Pundit]

I am big on federalism. I like how Aukot acknowledge that devolution has dealt with issues with tribalism, corruption, accountability and
representation.Our politics at the national level is mostly dysfunctional because we are a nation of tribes....and everything get sacrificed in that altar.

Because our problem is lack of nationhood; we need to separate state functions and national functions. We need to devolve national function - and keep state functions ( defence & police, immigration, foreign affairs, central banking & regulatory bodies) - naturally whatever remain will be "Ceremonial" President dealing with state functions - foreign affairs mostly - and we need to move national functions like education, health, agriculture, basic infrastructure to counties.

I also like it more because it solve our Mps issues. MPs have as a bad reputation as our police officers and having useless 350mps with the majority never speaking is waste of time. I also like making MCA - the basic unit of development - so we have clear structure now - MCA - County - National Gov.

We do not need those sub-counties/districts layer now. I want to see counties empowered - with quality of MCA elected and laws being enacted in those assemblies -- getting better.

With more money going to counties - National gov has no option except to devolve more functions. They need to devolve education infrastructure apart from teachers & policies. They also need to devolve KERRA (rural) roads. Hopefully continues can continue to build capacity to handle more functions. Majority are doing well - maybe Doc & Nurses strikes are a major blot (- and perhaps the recruitment and salary ought to be national?).

As for anti-graft law - those should be immediately done away with or ammended - they are not practical - they are mostly emotional. You cannot prosecute complex corruption cases in 30 days. You cannot make every audit query a crime. I think having corruption cases heard and determined in 1yr and appeal in six months make sense to me. We should not codify in the constitution punishment for corruption cases....I think parliament should determine how much - depending on the scale. If you steal 100 shs receipt - you shouldn't be condemned to life sentence - like Rotich who steal 5B kshs.

Anti-graft is a very big carrot. Glad to see you have come around to gender parity - after dismissing me indignantly on the subject.

[Nefertiti]

I am big on federalism. I like how Aukot acknowledge that devolution has dealt with issues with tribalism, corruption, accountability and
representation.Our politics at the national level is mostly dysfunctional because we are a nation of tribes....and everything get sacrificed in that altar.

Because our problem is lack of nationhood; we need to separate state functions and national functions. We need to devolve national function - and keep state functions ( defence & police, immigration, foreign affairs, central banking & regulatory bodies) - naturally whatever remain will be "Ceremonial" President dealing with state functions - foreign affairs mostly - and we need to move national functions like education, health, agriculture, basic infrastructure to counties.

I also like it more because it solve our Mps issues. MPs have as a bad reputation as our police officers and having useless 350mps with the majority never speaking is waste of time. I also like making MCA - the basic unit of development - so we have clear structure now - MCA - County - National Gov.

We do not need those sub-counties/districts layer now. I want to see counties empowered - with quality of MCA elected and laws being enacted in those assemblies -- getting better.

With more money going to counties - National gov has no option except to devolve more functions. They need to devolve education infrastructure apart from teachers & policies. They also need to devolve KERRA (rural) roads. Hopefully continues can continue to build capacity to handle more functions. Majority are doing well - maybe Doc & Nurses strikes are a major blot (- and perhaps the recruitment and salary ought to be national?).

Federalism is great - but are the counties ready? See the chaos in health sector - do you want that in education? Alliance, Precious Blood, etc remain national with colleges? What innovation have you seen in say agric - do we devolve the KILRI, KALRO, KARI? GoK is 50 years old and still deliver dismally - we must be careful with the transition. 35% or 50% is ok but need to have a very good mechanism - maybe another Transitional Authority of 2010-15? Incompetence and inefficiency and conflict are just as bad as tribalism.

I know the ward is meant to be atomic with one clan - but don't be so sure - need to guard against xenophobic Mungiki or entitled Kalenjin.

As for anti-graft law - those should be immediately done away with or ammended - they are not practical - they are mostly emotional. You cannot prosecute complex corruption cases in 30 days. You cannot make every audit query a crime. I think having corruption cases heard and determined in 1yr and appeal in six months make sense to me. We should not codify in the constitution punishment for corruption cases....I think parliament should determine how much - depending on the scale. If you steal 100 shs receipt - you shouldn't be condemned to life sentence - like Rotich who steal 5B kshs.

Need amendments to be more practical yes - especially the period. Should only be clocked for big cases say 10M and above - 100K  small cases can wind through the system. DPP will decide what audit questions are criminal - so it is not bad. It just obliges auditor general to hand over the report - and DPP to prioritize economic crimes. Very good proposal. Especially cause federalism can mint a new band of thieves. DPP only pursues material cases - so 100 shs thief will not  be charged but fired. I see no distinction between small or big corruption - which is distinct from theft. Graft involve abuse of power - so a burglar is not corrupt but get 5 years. Graft is same as robbery with violence - wielding gun or wielding official power are same thing. Should be death sentence for both yet now it mere life sentence. Likes of Kidero need to be locked up 60 years - or the Gakuos and Kafuras - then folks will avoid graft like HIV.

No - graft law cannot be left to MPs due to conflict of interest. They don't want to pay tax - what makes you think they want to go to jail for life? The law would never see the light of day.

[RV Pundit]

Counties are maturing. It will be 10yrs now. I think the health sector overall has done better under counties than previously. It's just the rot is now getting exposure. Most places esp in remote northern Kenya - are having their caesarian or heart or whatever operations. I am for incrementally loading more functions to counties. Definitely, school infrastructure should be devolved to Ward Dev Fund. Some of rural roads should also be devolved. It's obvious if we were to give counties 3 times the money - we would have to devolve a lot of functions. That should give the national gov the incentive to do that.

Ultimately we need to divide and distribute power - from PORK to counties, independent bodies and such. We should not delude ourselves that MPIGS can hold anybody accountable. Also, it's delusional to imagine power can be split btw PORK, DPORK, PM and all those center of powers that can engage in big fights & paralyze gov. The parliamentary system in our tribal parliament will make for one unstable gov.

I believe a PORK that has to win 50% plus one - will already make sure we have inclusive gov.

Some of the corruption proposals are good. I wish Aukot had not allowed emotions to cloud everything. So, unfortunately, that part of the bill should be ammended - by Senators and later. But let amend it when we have tried it's practicality. Let magistrate and DPP try finish those case in 1 month - by burning the midnight oil and having special corruption courts.

All in all - I'd vote for Aukot bill - without hesitation. I am very suspicion of Blue Band Initiative.

I am big on federalism. I like how Aukot acknowledge that devolution has dealt with issues with tribalism, corruption, accountability and
representation.Our politics at the national level is mostly dysfunctional because we are a nation of tribes....and everything get sacrificed in that altar.

Because our problem is lack of nationhood; we need to separate state functions and national functions. We need to devolve national function - and keep state functions ( defence & police, immigration, foreign affairs, central banking & regulatory bodies) - naturally whatever remain will be "Ceremonial" President dealing with state functions - foreign affairs mostly - and we need to move national functions like education, health, agriculture, basic infrastructure to counties.

I also like it more because it solve our Mps issues. MPs have as a bad reputation as our police officers and having useless 350mps with the majority never speaking is waste of time. I also like making MCA - the basic unit of development - so we have clear structure now - MCA - County - National Gov.

We do not need those sub-counties/districts layer now. I want to see counties empowered - with quality of MCA elected and laws being enacted in those assemblies -- getting better.

With more money going to counties - National gov has no option except to devolve more functions. They need to devolve education infrastructure apart from teachers & policies. They also need to devolve KERRA (rural) roads. Hopefully continues can continue to build capacity to handle more functions. Majority are doing well - maybe Doc & Nurses strikes are a major blot (- and perhaps the recruitment and salary ought to be national?).

Federalism is great - but are the counties ready? See the chaos in health sector - do you want that in education? Alliance, Precious Blood, etc remain national with colleges? What innovation have you seen in say agric - do we devolve the KILRI, KALRO, KARI? GoK is 50 years old and still deliver dismally - we must be careful with the transition. 35% is ok but need to have a very good mechanism - maybe another Transitional Authority of 2010-15? Incompetence and inefficiency and conflict are just as bad as tribalism.

I know the ward is meant to be atomic with one clan - but don't be so sure - need to guard against xenophobic Mungiki or entitled Kalenjin.

As for anti-graft law - those should be immediately done away with or ammended - they are not practical - they are mostly emotional. You cannot prosecute complex corruption cases in 30 days. You cannot make every audit query a crime. I think having corruption cases heard and determined in 1yr and appeal in six months make sense to me. We should not codify in the constitution punishment for corruption cases....I think parliament should determine how much - depending on the scale. If you steal 100 shs receipt - you shouldn't be condemned to life sentence - like Rotich who steal 5B kshs.

Need amendments to be more practical yes - especially the period. Should only be clocked for big cases say 10M and above - 100K  small cases can wind through the system. DPP will decide what audit questions are criminal - so it is not bad. It just obliges auditor general to hand over the report - and DPP to prioritize economic crimes. Very good proposal. Especially cause federalism can mint a new band of thieves. DPP only pursues material cases - so 100 shs thief will not  be charged but fired. I see no distinction between small or big corruption - which is distinct from theft. Graft involve abuse of power - so a burglar is not corrupt but get 5 years. Graft is same as robbery with violence - wielding gun or wielding official power are same thing. Should be death sentence for both yet now it mere life sentence. Likes of Kidero need to be locked up 60 years - or the Gakuos and Kafuras - then folks will avoid graft like HIV.

No - graft law cannot be left to MPs due to conflict of interest. They don't want to pay tax - what makes you think they want to go to jail for life? The law would never see the light of day.

[hk]

Punguza Mzigo only increases counties allocation to 35%. I'd have preferred counties to start actually collecting vat taxes or kra to start classifying taxes  by county. Otherwise money allocated by national government will continue being like manna from heaven.

[RV Pundit]

That I believe is the next step. But the economy has to grow enough for the majority of counties to be able to raise such taxes. It probable that in 10yrs - when every county will have some economic activity - we can let everyone raise their taxes - and keep most of it - remitting 35% to National Gov. That will be true devolution. I mean by then say Lamu will have Lamu port & resort city to fund themselves. Turkana will have oil. Wajir will have gas. Garissa will have solar & gypisum. Tharaka Nithi will have steal industry. Kitui will have coal industry. Machakos, Nairobi, Kiambu, Muranga, Nakuru, Kisumu, Mombasa & Uasin Gishu will have urban population to raise taxes. Majority of the rest will have agricultural activities to finance them Etc etc.

Right now - going by the counties generated own revenues - the majority of counties will really struggle.

Also - it probably will be easier to do this when the economy is formalized - right now - say with VAT - it levied at factory gate - while the product could end up being sold in Turkana - but once everyone is shopping in super-markets - it very easy for Tusksy in Lodwar to collect VAT and remit it to Turkana county.

Punguza Mzigo only increases counties allocation to 35%. I'd have preferred counties to start actually collecting vat taxes or kra to start classifying taxes  by county. Otherwise money allocated by national government will continue being like manna from heaven.

[hk]

That I believe is the next step. But the economy has to grow enough for the majority of counties to be able to raise such taxes. It probable that in 10yrs - when every county will have some economic activity - we can let everyone raise their taxes - and keep most of it - remitting 35% to National Gov. That will be true devolution. I mean by then say Lamu will have Lamu port & resort city to fund themselves. Turkana will have oil. Wajir will have gas. Garissa will have solar & gypisum. Tharaka Nithi will have steal industry. Kitui will have coal industry. Machakos, Nairobi, Kiambu, Muranga, Nakuru, Kisumu, Mombasa & Uasin Gishu will have urban population to raise taxes. Majority of the rest will have agricultural activities to finance them Etc etc.

Right now - going by the counties generated own revenues - the majority of counties will really struggle.

Punguza Mzigo only increases counties allocation to 35%. I'd have preferred counties to start actually collecting vat taxes or kra to start classifying taxes  by county. Otherwise money allocated by national government will continue being like manna from heaven.

Even now kra get most of those taxes from counties. Its only that those taxes aren't categorized by counties. VAT should be structured like sales taxes where companies can easily delineate where they derived their sales from, not necessarily where they're domiciled.   

[RV Pundit]

If implemented now - Nairobi will keep most of the taxes - starving many counties. I think our economy has to grow enough, formalize enough and diversify enough for every county to be able to fund themselves. We can encourage them to grown internal revenues - by matching shs to shs - what is generated. So if Kiambu raised 2B from internal resources now - gov can give them 2B. That would probably be an incentive. And obviously, most of A-I-A, if those functions were devolved, would end up in counties.

Even now kra get most of those taxes from counties. Its only that those taxes aren't categorized by counties. VAT should be structured like sales taxes where companies can easily delineate where they derived their sales from, not necessarily where they're domiciled.   

[Dear Mami]

If implemented now - Nairobi will keep most of the taxes - starving many counties. I think our economy has to grow enough, formalize enough and diversify enough for every county to be able to fund themselves. We can encourage them to grown internal revenues - by matching shs to shs - what is generated. So if Kiambu raised 2B from internal resources now - gov can give them 2B. That would probably be an incentive. And obviously, most of A-I-A, if those functions were devolved, would end up in counties.

Even now kra get most of those taxes from counties. Its only that those taxes aren't categorized by counties. VAT should be structured like sales taxes where companies can easily delineate where they derived their sales from, not necessarily where they're domiciled.   

We can still have a mix where there's redistribution at a national level so that weaker counties get bigger allocations (Nairobi close to none). Just that not everything goes to the national level from the get go..

[hk]

If implemented now - Nairobi will keep most of the taxes - starving many counties. I think our economy has to grow enough, formalize enough and diversify enough for every county to be able to fund themselves. We can encourage them to grown internal revenues - by matching shs to shs - what is generated. So if Kiambu raised 2B from internal resources now - gov can give them 2B. That would probably be an incentive. And obviously, most of A-I-A, if those functions were devolved, would end up in counties.

Even now kra get most of those taxes from counties. Its only that those taxes aren't categorized by counties. VAT should be structured like sales taxes where companies can easily delineate where they derived their sales from, not necessarily where they're domiciled.   

Yes it would cause its the biggest contributor but also its the most populated county with the highest number of poor people.  Just because a company is domiciled in Nairobi it doesn't mean its deriving bulk of its revenue from nairobi. Counties like Meru do consume gazillions liters of alcohol, they sure should get a piece of taxes they pay for it. 

[RV Pundit]

Worth reading Oparanya - State of Devolution. Counties it would appear are succeeding.

They've got 20% of shareable revenues.

https://africacheck.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/STATE-OF-DEVOLUTION-ADDRESS-2019-.pdf

[RV Pundit]

Roads
? The improvement of the road network in the Counties is a true testimony that
Devolution is working. In just over a year, County Governments have:
i) tarmacked 546.7 Kilometers of roads;
ii) Murammed 56,248 Kilometers and;
iii) Graveled over 16,475 Kilometers. Additionally, 30, 997 Kilometers of new
roads have been opened and 24,740 Kilometers rehabilitated.
Water and Sanitation.
County Governments have been working towards the realization of universal access to
water. Notably;
? Water coverage has now increased to 57%
? Sanitation coverage is now at 16%
? Non-revenue water is now at 41%
? Six (6) Counties now have water Masterplans from the previous two (2)
? Fourteen (14) Counties have water policies
? Six (6) Counties have operational Water Law
Health

[Nefertiti]

Your people are overly superstitious of Babu - Ruto call it Ongeza Mizigo - the other day he "offer" Babu to act as PM in UK after May threw in the towel But let judge their bill by merit not hearsay. It very easy to scuttle Aukot - probably Chebukati fumbled the signatures by design. Then delay in court till BBI is out. I love Auko because he has set a very high standard for BBI or anyone else. On graft, devolution, MPs, gender. 3tier or such nonsense won't cut it. BBI should fine-tune Aukot bill on graft specifics, MP boundaries which don't make sense 3 people single county, and while am not clear on WDF it is a bad and illegal idea too. Conflates oversight and execution. Should be scrapped with CDF. Mandating the ward as the basic economic and devolutional unit is enough.

You can't say 65% PORK is inconsequential so am still open to parliamentary at national level.

Counties are maturing. It will be 10yrs now. I think the health sector overall has done better under counties than previously. It's just the rot is now getting exposure. Most places esp in remote northern Kenya - are having their caesarian or heart or whatever operations. I am for incrementally loading more functions to counties. Definitely, school infrastructure should be devolved to Ward Dev Fund. Some of rural roads should also be devolved. It's obvious if we were to give counties 3 times the money - we would have to devolve a lot of functions. That should give the national gov the incentive to do that.

Ultimately we need to divide and distribute power - from PORK to counties, independent bodies and such. We should not delude ourselves that MPIGS can hold anybody accountable. Also, it's delusional to imagine power can be split btw PORK, DPORK, PM and all those center of powers that can engage in big fights & paralyze gov. The parliamentary system in our tribal parliament will make for one unstable gov.

I believe a PORK that has to win 50% plus one - will already make sure we have inclusive gov.

Some of the corruption proposals are good. I wish Aukot had not allowed emotions to cloud everything. So, unfortunately, that part of the bill should be ammended - by Senators and later. But let amend it when we have tried it's practicality. Let magistrate and DPP try finish those case in 1 month - by burning the midnight oil and having special corruption courts.

All in all - I'd vote for Aukot bill - without hesitation. I am very suspicion of Blue Band Initiative.

[RV Pundit]

We know Raila very well. He has trust deficit. We know what BBI is all about - Raila attempt to pass his own version of Katiba. I think Uhuru has is own plan so BBI will die a natural death.

65% of funds that remain - part of it will be earmarked for judiciary, parliament and the 12 independent bodies. Yes obviously as counties build capacity - in the future - we will go full federalism - where counties will be states.

Your people are overly superstitious of Babu - Ruto call it Ongeza Mizigo - the other day he "offer" Babu to act as PM in UK after May threw in the towel But let judge their bill by merit not hearsay. It very easy to scuttle Aukot - probably Chebukati fumbled the signatures by design. Then delay in court till BBI is out. I love Auko because he has set a very high standard for BBI or anyone else. On graft, devolution, MPs, gender. 3tier or such nonsense won't cut it. BBI should fine-tune Aukot bill on graft specifics, MP boundaries which don't make sense 3 people single county, and while am not clear on WDF it is a bad and illegal idea too. Conflates oversight and execution. Should be scrapped with CDF. Mandating the ward as the basic economic and devolutional unit is enough.

You can't say 65% PORK is inconsequential so am still open to parliamentary at national level.

Counties are maturing. It will be 10yrs now. I think the health sector overall has done better under counties than previously. It's just the rot is now getting exposure. Most places esp in remote northern Kenya - are having their caesarian or heart or whatever operations. I am for incrementally loading more functions to counties. Definitely, school infrastructure should be devolved to Ward Dev Fund. Some of rural roads should also be devolved. It's obvious if we were to give counties 3 times the money - we would have to devolve a lot of functions. That should give the national gov the incentive to do that.

Ultimately we need to divide and distribute power - from PORK to counties, independent bodies and such. We should not delude ourselves that MPIGS can hold anybody accountable. Also, it's delusional to imagine power can be split btw PORK, DPORK, PM and all those center of powers that can engage in big fights & paralyze gov. The parliamentary system in our tribal parliament will make for one unstable gov.

I believe a PORK that has to win 50% plus one - will already make sure we have inclusive gov.

Some of the corruption proposals are good. I wish Aukot had not allowed emotions to cloud everything. So, unfortunately, that part of the bill should be ammended - by Senators and later. But let amend it when we have tried it's practicality. Let magistrate and DPP try finish those case in 1 month - by burning the midnight oil and having special corruption courts.

All in all - I'd vote for Aukot bill - without hesitation. I am very suspicion of Blue Band Initiative.

[Nefertiti]

RV Pundit do you see any bug in 3 reps per county? Senator, male and female MP. How to tell them apart?

[RV Pundit]

US congress - has senior and junior senators and house of reps  All of them are representative of their county. The MPs will be dealing with national issues and cross-checking national gov. Senate will deal with resolving difference btw National & County gov. Senate will also be more powerful - with powers to impeach president and governors. I hope we stop seeing the nonsense of senate summing governors and that job is done by MCA.

The bug I see is in assigning each county - 2 rep irrespective of population. Maybe we should have given more reps to more populous counties. But how do we deal with gender? Maybe have one women rep in each county - and others depending on the population ratio - with max of 150mps? So Nairobi with 4M will get say 4 slots and Lamu will get 1....out of the 100 men mps.

RV Pundit do you see any bug in 3 reps per county? Senator, male and female MP. How to tell them apart?