Author Topic: Kitendawili  (Read 2144 times)

Offline Omollo

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7143
  • Reputation: 13780
  • http://www.omollosview.com
    • Omollosview
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 09:02:12 PM »
Let us  avoid invective and focus on what you call facts.

When we criticized the 2013 judgement by Mutunga and company, we cited specifics. While there are dozens of scholarly papers that have without exception lambasted the decision, my own position was that the case was not fully canvassed. The exclusion of most of the evidence on a technicality would in my opinion qualify for "stupidity".

Now when you call the 2017 judgement "stupid", I note that your reason for it is well - for lack of any other word, allow me to borrow from your vast lexical register - stupid. Here is your reason in your own words:
Quote
The SCORK made a stupid decision because Raila knew he got beat and he couldn't stand in the repeat.
You say Railaknew he could not win against Uhuru in the repeat poll. You say it like it is a revelation of St. John. In reality it is not. Raila said he saw no chance of the IEBC declaring him a winner. He clarified that as long as the same illegalities that the Supreme Court had identified remained unchanged the only a fool would expect a different outcome.

Further to that, we saw Uhuru Kenyatta sign into law a raft of "amendments" to the election act, whose net effect was to legalize the said illegalities, thus allowing the same contraventions to be done, this time with the weight of the law behind them.

As if that was not enough, Uhuru went ahead to use the coercive powers of state to prevent the same Supreme Court convening to hear a case about the legality of the very election. When the high court ruled that the returning officers were in office illegally, his protege in the Court of Appeal convened an irregular sitting to grant a stay of execution, thus allowing the identified illegalities to proceed. Uhuru would later reward the convenor with the post of Attorney General. I may add that an explanation that the judges in the panel were way out of their jurisdiction and worked on a gazetted holiday in contravention of the gazetted regulations.
Quote
So far there have been I think zero lower elections overturned because of IEBC rigging
One can understand this by reading the minority decision by Njoki Ndung'u which the legal fraternity knows was written by Githu Muigai, Ngatia and Ahmednasir. She directed the courts on how to deal with the petitions. It shocked many legal minds then why she was addressing a question that had not been raised. Later events would prove her motives. I have not read the judgments in the individual cases nor can I say I agree with your postulation. I have no basis. But if it be true then one can say we have an unhealthy situation. Lower courts follow the majority binding opinion not the dissenting minority opinion. You should be aghast at that (if indeed you are committed to facts) not celebrate and highlight it as some jurisprudence to be proud of.



You're incorrigible idiot. I do not change positions or facts based on politics of the day. There are times I support XYZ but when I find out "truth"- then I immediately change. I sway with facts. Yes fact is SCORK made a stupid decision - that waste our money - because Raila knew he got beat and he couldn't stand in the repeat. UhuRuto are still in power and so is everyone else. So far there have been I think zero lower elections overturned because of IEBC rigging - it been mainly a candidate did or didn't do this. Ocampo made a mess - and I explained why - and he is 6-NIL as we speak. I still insist Uhuru was involved with Mungiki. I explained how politician were involved in RV violence - they weren't the cog - the best they did was to oil the war machine that based on traditional warrior set up. I believe Ruto has looted or stole a lot the last few years. Etc etc. I am not invested in politics. I am just a dispassionate pundit of our politics. But yes I support UhuRuto & Jubilee now - just like I supported ODM previously -and Kibaki's NARC & DP before that.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 11:50:02 AM by Omollo »
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 37009
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2018, 12:07:44 PM »
While you were away nursing nasa defeat - we debated SCORK decision to DEATH.
Let us  avoid invective and focus on what you call facts.

When we criticized the 2013 judgement by Mutunga and company, we cited specifics. While there are dozens of scholarly papers that have without exception lambasted the decision, my own position was that the case was not fully canvassed. The exclusion of most of the evidence on a technicality would in my opinion qualify for "stupidity".

Now when you call the 2017 judgement "stupid", I note that your reason for it is well - for lack of any other word, allow me to borrow from your vast lexical register - stupid. Here is your reason in your own words:
Quote
The SCORK made a stupid decision because Raila knew he got beat and he couldn't stand in the repeat.
You say Railaknew he could not win against Uhuru in the repeat poll. You say it like it is a revelation of St. John. In reality it is not. Raila said he saw no chance of the IEBC declaring him a winner. He clarified that as long as the same illegalities that the Supreme Court had identified remained unchanged the only a fool would expect a different outcome.

Further to that, we saw Uhuru Kenyatta sign into law a raft of "amendments" to the election act, whose net effect was to legalize the said illegalities, thus allowing the same contraventions to be done, this time with the weight of the law behind them.

As if that was not enough, Uhuru went ahead to use the coercive powers of state to prevent the same Supreme Court convening to hear a case about the legality of the very election. When the high court ruled that the returning officers were in office illegally, his protege in the Court of Appeal convened an irregular sitting to grant a stay of execution, thus allowing the identified illegalities to proceed. Uhuru would later reward the convenor with the post of Attorney General. I may add that an explanation that the judges in the panel were way out of their jurisdiction and worked on a gazetted holiday in contravention of the gazetted regulations.
Quote
So far there have been I think zero lower elections overturned because of IEBC rigging
One can understand this by reading the minority decision by Njoki Ndung'u which the legal fraternity knows was written by Githu Muigai, Ngatia and Ahmednasir. She directed the courts on how to deal with the petitions. It shocked many legal minds then why she was addressing a question that had not been raised. Later events would prove her motives. I have not read the judgments in the individual cases nor can I say I agree with your postulation. I have no basis. But if it be true then one can say we have an unhealthy situation. Lower courts follow the majority binding opinion not the dissenting minority opinion. You should be aghast at that (if indeed you are committed to facts) not celebrate and highlight it as some jurisprudence to be proud of.



You're incorrigible idiot. I do not change positions or facts based on politics of the day. There are times I support XYZ but when I find out "truth"- then I immediately change. I sway with facts. Yes fact is SCORK made a stupid decision - that waste our money - because Raila knew he got beat and he couldn't stand in the repeat. UhuRuto are still in power and so is everyone else. So far there have been I think zero lower elections overturned because of IEBC rigging - it been mainly a candidate did or didn't do this. Ocampo made a mess - and I explained why - and he is 6-NIL as we speak. I still insist Uhuru was involved with Mungiki. I explained how politician were involved in RV violence - they weren't the cog - the best they did was to oil the war machine that based on traditional warrior set up. I believe Ruto has looted or stole a lot the last few years. Etc etc. I am not invested in politics. I am just a dispassionate pundit of our politics. But yes I support UhuRuto & Jubilee now - just like I supported ODM previously -and Kibaki's NARC & DP before that.

Offline Omollo

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7143
  • Reputation: 13780
  • http://www.omollosview.com
    • Omollosview
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2018, 12:22:00 PM »
As you may have probably noticed, I am not discussing the SCORK decision. I am responding to specific issues you raised. I may mention judgments and the courts as part of that.

If you are referring to the heist by Uhuru Kenyatta why yes I took note of it. I clearly predicted how he would do it almost a year before. I posted it all here to your predictable denial and invective.

While you were away nursing nasa defeat - we debated SCORK decision to DEATH.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Omollo

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7143
  • Reputation: 13780
  • http://www.omollosview.com
    • Omollosview
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2018, 12:39:26 PM »
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 37009
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 12:53:09 PM »
Elections can be annualed for many reasons.

Offline Omollo

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7143
  • Reputation: 13780
  • http://www.omollosview.com
    • Omollosview
Re: Kitendawili
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 01:26:38 PM »
Does that mean you have read "The election was not held in accordance with the constitution" and still feel there were other grounds in addition? Wonderful.. you are making progress. I will get and share the judgment.
Elections can be annualed for many reasons.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread