Author Topic: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist  (Read 3360 times)

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2018, 08:33:51 AM »
He is absolutely advancing inferiority theory. His main motivation is political. Have you seen the second video I linked? Murray has beef with affirmative action. He is trying to convince Americans that it is a waste of resources to try to positively discriminate in favour of blacks to improve the historical disparities. He is saying basically that they're dumb and cant be helped so don't bother.

Well? Italians had similarly dismal scores as Blacks when they arrived on American shores 100 years ago and were thoroughly otherized and considered inherently daft and not even White at all. Jews as well. In fact they limited immigration into the US by these groups because they considered them too daft to integrate well and they used aptitude tests for this silly policy. Lucky for Italians and European Jews, their appearance allowed them to "join" the rest of the White population in the next few generations and those IQ differences between them and 'the main stream' vanished.

Black history in the US is too long and negative it cant even be put in the same boat and yet, against all the odds, as Flynn found, they alsohave been catching up to the rest despite Jim Crow, racism and the fact that its harder for them to "disappear" into the dominant White race after a generation or two of learning the language and culture like people with White skin and blonde/brown hair. It's harder for them to "become White" if not impossible.

Murray claims that all the environmental differences had ceased to affect the IQ difference from 1972 because the race to join the main stream lagged for some years after 1972 (I think till the 80s/90s) after Blacks closing the gap consistently for decades before. They still don't know why it plateaued then, but unfortunately for Murray and pals, they still closed another 6 points  by 2002 notwithstanding all that. By now I bet the gap is smaller still. In another generation or two, the difference will have vanished, by all indications, then the Murrays of that time will invent another goal post to support their bigotry.

It's also cheap of them to hide under conspiracy theories about nefarious motives for their ideas getting zero traction and respect in expert circles. It's not like they've just been hand waved. Each and everyone of their claims has been challenged with evidence or on the grounds of their baseless presuppositions; ie being questioned/demanded evidence for. They refuse to actually respond to the actual critiques they are getting from the academic communities and instead invent a boogeyman to tell lay people that their ideas lack authority with the experts because of bias. That's just lazy.

You can't just say race must be biologically real because you've always thought, like most of us have, that skin and hair colour were all-important markers of biological human families and are now shocked that they are insignificant as far as biology goes; then without evidence for these races one deeply believes in, they just claim they lack the evidence because the other scientists are meanies. I've seen many talks of actual biologists/geneticists, not political scientists like Murray or non-biologists like Harris, but the actual geneticists who utterly rubbish these claims solely on the basis of genes. If the alt-right wants to claim race validity on the basis of biology, its up to them to find these races in gene clusters, not just in their unyielding faith in the all-important-ness of skin colour and hair just because it was what we used to assume before we knew there were invisible things like genes that record our biological history.
Maybe I was not clear.

I meant his famous book Bell Curve almost mentioned the issue of race and intelligence in passing. Whatever else he subscribes to is not the point.

The very idea that intelligence can be reduced to genetic variation is scary enough. Scary because many once believed it without proof, and used it to justify slavery and segregation. Anyone suggesting such possibility is a closet racist. Meanwhile they will run into tons of 'evidence' against anything remotely pointing in that direction. That's why Termie tells you negroes flunk IQ tests because they became men way younger than Caucasians.

I'm saying the odds are stacked against sincere science on this matter. Too much emotions
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Dear Mami

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1493
  • Reputation: 643
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2018, 12:43:01 PM »
Meanwhile they will run into tons of 'evidence' against anything remotely pointing in that direction. That's why Termie tells you negroes flunk IQ tests because they became men way younger than Caucasians.

I'm saying the odds are stacked against sincere science on this matter. Too much emotions
I disagree. First of all, why is evidence in quotes? The genetic data is not made up. Its being gathered all over the world as we speak. It's all too easy to handwave evidence away as 'insincere' without pointing to flaws in methodology, sampling or interpretation. I don't buy the conspiracy angle at all. The consensus does not look as it does because scientists are finding evidence of biological race and hiding it. That's really reaching.

Offline Dear Mami

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1493
  • Reputation: 643
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2018, 01:06:58 PM »
An interesting article, guys, please read it. https://theconversation.com/human-races-biological-reality-or-cultural-delusion-30419

Quote



How many races have been recognised for living people? Well, there seems to have been no real limit in practice, reinforcing their arbitrary nature.

During the 20th century, estimates of the number of races varied from two to 200 across the globe. For Europe alone, one book published in 1950 estimated six, while another one the same year identified at least 30 races.


Offline Dear Mami

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1493
  • Reputation: 643
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2018, 01:11:02 PM »
Quote
Genetics: the final arbitrator

Developments in the field of genetics from the 1960s onwards made new inroads into the question of race. In fact, genetics marked the death knell of the scientific race debate.Are we all the same then?

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3347
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2018, 01:18:44 PM »
Race is subjective like religion. Everyone has 99% monkey genes.

Forget stupid science theories. This is just common sense. In a white man's world regardless of intelligence, if you're white you're confident because you're accepted and conditioned to reach for the stars. It's like putting a kitten in a litter of puppies with puppy toys and puppy food. How on earth can the kitten feel confident in their own skin?


Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3347
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2018, 01:26:33 PM »
Sam Harris extrudes in the closet twink. He joins the rank of that other forget his name but that professor twink... hmm... my Empy was crazy about his AI theories plagiarised from the movie Terminator.

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3347
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2018, 01:38:35 PM »
...hang on, i think that's the same moron. I was listening to a podcast in Korean the other day about how in Virginia, it's illegal to have sex before marriage. Where are all these law abiding gentlemen? I'm tired of these athiest-alt-right-twinks dominating the political landscape. I'm still waiting for the day the best of humanity emerges from the ashes and puts an end to such demonic reign.

Offline Dear Mami

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1493
  • Reputation: 643
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2018, 01:47:47 PM »
Me too, Veri. It really scares me how much they have become a 'legitimate' voice at a time when most evidence does not favour their dreams.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8730
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 06:33:27 PM »
Maybe I was not clear.

I meant his famous book Bell Curve almost mentioned the issue of race and intelligence in passing. Whatever else he subscribes to is not the point.

The very idea that intelligence can be reduced to genetic variation is scary enough. Scary because many once believed it without proof, and used it to justify slavery and segregation. Anyone suggesting such possibility is a closet racist. Meanwhile they will run into tons of 'evidence' against anything remotely pointing in that direction. That's why Termie tells you negroes flunk IQ tests because they became men way younger than Caucasians.

I'm saying the odds are stacked against sincere science on this matter. Too much emotions

You are still not clear.  The why you are ascribing to my casual observations. 
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2018, 07:02:51 AM »
Kadame,
I spent some good part of yesterday looking into this race science. It seems to have been an attempt to explain slavery in the face of America and French revolution which  insisted on equality of men. Negro had to be subhuman to deserve enslavement.

Then there's no intelligence Gene. Tuseme it is just bad science or no science at all
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3347
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2018, 11:08:31 AM »
Me too, Veri. It really scares me how much they have become a 'legitimate' voice at a time when most evidence does not favour their dreams.

It's absolute bollocks this Sam Harris too twink for twat calls himself a scientist. This is bad for science. I honestly thought these academic institutions were the last bastions for truth but fk what a joke.

Offline Dear Mami

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1493
  • Reputation: 643
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2018, 02:07:49 PM »
So here's the debate Sam had with that editor who wrote the article I linked to in the OP (which was part of an exchange between them that happened after Sam and Murray had their discussion). Mind you, Sam refused to have a debate/discussion with actual intelligence researchers who critiqued that convo with Murray and instead had one with this Ezra dude, who is just a journalist. Nonetheless, it still struck me how obtuse Sam was...He truly doesn't get why any of this is problematic and he actually dismisses the need to contextualize this "data" re African Americans in their history in the US... :o


If that's too long for you, I found this short critique of him on that discussion here: It highlights the things he was saying that had me shaking my head.
If you are not interested in watching these vids, I'll summarize the probs with what he says below.

What was most telling was his flippant dismissal of an interpretation by Flynn (as quoted by Ezra) that its just as likely, based on the data, that the 10 point gap (though its actually 9) is because of a 12 point environmental factor verses a -2 point genetic factor (ie a 2 point AA genetic advantage over the Whites in AA) as it is that there is 0 genetic factor or a White genetic advantage. The point was to illustrate that the conclusions Sam and Murray are drawing from the data is unwarranted. The only thing we know is that environmental factors are huge but we have no idea what (if any) genetic factor is involved in this gap.

What does Sam Harris do? He says "Anything is possible but we have to talk about what is plausible..." :o

Imagine that...this dude is saying (without a scintilla of evidence) that:

Assumption one: There is definitely a genetic factor in the gap. Whether 1, 2, or 10, doesn't matter. There just is.

-How does he know? Well, he says, genetics and environment play a role in everything, so they surely play a role here too, no?

If you follow Alt-right circle jerks online you'll find this repeated over and over again, from Reddit to Youtube. They will constantly cite twin studies as proof of "40% to 80%" heritability in IQ. They then leap from this "heritability" to "genetic", so they treat those two, as Murray himself does, as if they are interchangeable.

Well, even if you grant that IQ is 80% influenced by genetics, for the sake of argument, that is NOT the same thing as saying "the IQ difference btw group A and B is 80% due to genetics". This is why most of us do not think South Koreans being on average 3 inches taller than North Koreans is because they have developed a genetic difference in height with their brothers over the last several decades. Is height influenced greatly by both genetics and environment? Sure! But this difference in height between the North and South is most surely 100% environmental.

Sam Harris the genius doesn't seem to get this distinction.

Assumption two: Having said (without evidence) that there is definitely a genetic component here, it can only be White>Black, never the other way around.

....And then he's shocked and offended that people find these racist and unfounded, whether or not he is doing it unwittingly or not  :D

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3347
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2018, 04:09:04 PM »
Wow Kadame, damn! He's not worth your brain space or worth the time of any other beautiful thinkers. Sam Harris is living proof of a permanent head damage. Spouting BS like Kanye but not black enough to be taken seriously.

Does he realise riding on ridicule is cheap? There should be data collected on how much trash talk from twinks constitutes their existence. I'd personally like to investigate if it's feasible to reduce such carbon footprints by shipping them off to an island and the only currency being white, male and the confederate flag. I wonder if that book Lord of the Flies is some literary premonition for Sam Harris and his ilks.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8730
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: Sam Harris is a sleeper white Supremacist
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2018, 07:10:22 PM »

Another video you can see is this:

Linking intelligence to race using IQ is a highly problematic thing to attempt from a scientific perspective because of how nebulous both "race" and "intelligence" are, no matter what you think of the IQ test's relation to innate intelligence is.

I watched this.  Intriguing.

A lot of racists like to pretend that the current standards of living enjoyed in the west have been a permanent fixture of white existence.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  For most of the enlightenment period till fairly recently, the average mzungu was no better than the average peasant in the DRC.  A tiny fabulously wealthy group riding on a mass of filth and poverty.

This is 1903 New York.

"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman