Raila should be silent on current corruption manenos

[vooke]

He was paid enough to silence him

I do not know if he was bought off or not but I hope he asked for a lot of money. Raila spent 10 years in jail, has had his elections stolen three times, he has had billions of money spent demonizing him in the media and ridiculed for exposing corruption. Whatever they paid him, I do not believe is enough but I hope he got paid something from the stolen tax payers money and I hope it was only a down payment with more to come.

[Kichwa]

I only disagreed with MoonKi in the sense that once you take that position then what do you do? I think that for a peoples revolution to occur, there still has to be mobilization, inspiration, awareness which requires leadership. I totally disagree with Pundit that it will go away by itself. I think Bmask is right that corruption is here to stay but for that to happen the leaders must make it sustainable.  Right now it is not sustainable and the reason why we ask Raila to keep quiet is because we are about to have a war not to finish corruption but to make corruption sustainable for the future leaders to enjoy with some degree of comfort like during the Kenyattaa days and earlier Moi days and also during the nusu mkate days. For politicians, these are the good old days.  Ouru and Ruto got us where we are today because they have made corruption unsustainable and the old monies which were made during the "good old days" are furious and they blame Ruto for being too greedy and Ouru being too lazy. To make corruption sustainable, the public must be appeased.  Ruto wants to be president and since he has stolen enough, he can now fight corruption to a sustainable level which will still leave him with a lot of room for him and his few favored friends to loot but he can shut it down for others. This is what Uthamaki is scared of. If Ruto becomes president, who will he shut-off? The old kikuyus think it will be them and therefore they want to make sure Ruto does not make it.  The old kikuyu money people are therefore on Ouru's case and telling him to stop Ruto at all costs.  Ruto on the other hand is enticing new looters into his camp. He is telling them that the other side, "the dynasty"  has eaten to much and will never let them eat unless they dislodge them from power and he is the one with the resources and the wherewithal to do that. His argument is very persuasive. Both Ruto and Uthamaki will be bad for Kenya whomever wins because they will they are not interested in democracy and the rule of law, they are only interested in the economy and sustainable looting.  For Uthamaki to win they must stop Ruto and the easiest way is to make him the face of corruption.  If Ruto wins, he will sacrifice the old monies very early in his administration.  There is therefore not going to be a people's revolution, but more like a gang war so that a new, more sustainable order of looting is put in place.  The reason why I am excited about this war and want it to happen is because Uthamaki and Ruto may end up killing each other and something better may emerge. Mine is a small hope. That is why I want RAILA  to step aside and let it happen. However, if it does not happen, Raila should make sure he is not on the losing side because he is still the hope for many who care about, civil liberties, democracy and the rule of law. Kagame Ruto will kill democracy in what he believes would be economic development like the real Kagame. He will become a dictator, jail and kill opponents but may achieve some economic progress to camouflage and excuse his strongman designs.  To me therefore, he  is more dangerous because we know how this story ends.  It never ends well and Museveni and Kagame are good examples.

It's common knowledge there is no way any Kenyan institution can deal with corruption.  Let alone retired Raila or even more absurdly William Ruto.  That will have to be outsourced by some government not likely to emerge in the near future.  On that score alone hk's suggestion that taxes be reduced is very attractive.

Sometime back you mentioned that corruption ended in the west through violent revolution. I wonder if this is what we will come to and if we will survive it. The revolution that is.

Anyway it seems babu is being misquoted. He is not silent. He's slaying the dragon from within.

Govt keen on ending corruption, says Raila
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Raila--Govt-to-form-task-force-to-end-corruption/3126390-4581156-fwiu3pz/index.html

[Nefertiti]

I could be wrong, Kichwa, but I believe Rwanda is much better than the pre-Kagame days.

[Kichwa]

I am sure we are better off in Kenya than Rwanda.  Yes pre-kagame Rwanda was worse and Kagame should have tried to build a sustainable system that he can leave for the future generation instead of succumbing to the benevolent dictator model.  We have had many such models and we know that they do not end well.  The so called "economic development"  without a democracy with strong institutions to sustain the checks and balances and the rule of law is not sustainable in the long run and will only create new rounds of violence once Kagame is gone.

I could be wrong, Kichwa, but I believe Rwanda is much better than the pre-Kagame days.

[Kichwa]

I hope he was paid a lot of money. Its money that is already stolen and was not going to go back to the treasury anyway.  However, the silence I am talking about is called "deafening" silence. Kenyans knows Raila's position on corruption because he has spoken about it so many times. What we are therefore saying is that his silence speaks louder while speaking only muddies the waters.

He was paid enough to silence him

I do not know if he was bought off or not but I hope he asked for a lot of money. Raila spent 10 years in jail, has had his elections stolen three times, he has had billions of money spent demonizing him in the media and ridiculed for exposing corruption. Whatever they paid him, I do not believe is enough but I hope he got paid something from the stolen tax payers money and I hope it was only a down payment with more to come.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I could be wrong, Kichwa, but I believe Rwanda is much better than the pre-Kagame days.

Yabbut where does Rwanda go when he is gone?  Rwanda is a ticking time bomb.  A very scary and still ongoing if now pent-up history.  Uganda might be just slightly better.

[Kichwa]

I could be wrong, Kichwa, but I believe Rwanda is much better than the pre-Kagame days.

Yabbut where does Rwanda go when he is gone?  Rwanda is a ticking time bomb.  A very scary and still ongoing if now pent-up history.  Uganda might be just slightly better.

Absolutely! Kizza and other progressives in Uganda  may not have succeeded to dislodge Museveni but I think they have planted an appetite for democracy and the rule of law which can be easily reactivated when their strong man is called to glory.  Ruto will have a hard time being a benevolent dictator.  The educated Kikuyu elite who kept quiet during Ouruto will not have the same loyalty to Ruto and if they gang up with the current activists, Ruto will have to kill, detain and exile a lot of people to be a Kagame in Kenya.

[RV Pundit]

Bitmask.Yes corruption will reduce on its own if somehow the economy grows.When it become 90s mega looting that affect the economy then that something else.We should focus on growing the economy so we have more opportunities for honest growth.And opposite is also true ..even if you reduce graft to zero like Rwanda its not the magic ward to progress.Rwanda has maybe zero graft but its growing at 1% more than kenya.There is the tendency to exxagerate the effect of graft..in short as long as there is no mega looting...loosing 10b in budget of 25 trillion is no big deal.We should deal with graft like any routine crime.No drama.No exxageration.Just get the systems to deal with inevitable graft...on ongoing way without politicizing.

[Kichwa]

The corruption we are talking about in Kenya is not the "normal" corruption.  We are talking mega corruption, blatant and in-your-face. The Jomo Kenyattaa day kind of corruption which a lot of people look back to with nostalgia was sustainable because it did not hamper economic growth. The Moi/ouru/Ruto corruption is different-its MEGA-unsustainable.  Something big has to happen for Kenya to downgrade from MEGA corruption to normal corruption. That big thing will require a sacrificial lamb. The biggest prize is Ruto.  If Ouru can get Ruto on corruption and successfully prosecute him, send him to jail, to exile  or pardon him in exchange for complete political emasculation  (the Njonjo model), then Ouru can bring up Gidi to wipe the tears of Kalenjins.  However, if ouru fails, and Ruto wins, he will have to sacrifice Ouru/Uthamaki at the alter of fighting the mega corruption and then reduce it to "normal" levels. Ruto has a steep hill to climb.  He has to survive the coming onslaught, and then ascend to power. Once he is in power then he has to take on Uthamaki and bring them to their knees. That's a tall order and I think he knows it and does not have a choice but to face it head on. Its ironic that the Mega corruption which both Ouru and Ruto have been the biggest beneficiaries,  of is also setting Ouru and Ruto on a collision cause that may consume both of them or leave only one of them standing.

Bitmask.Yes corruption will reduce on its own if somehow the economy grows.When it become 90s mega looting that affect the economy then that something else.We should focus on growing the economy so we have more opportunities for honest growth.And opposite is also true ..even if you reduce graft to zero like Rwanda its not the magic ward to progress.Rwanda has maybe zero graft but its growing at 1% more than kenya.There is the tendency to exxagerate the effect of graft..in short as long as there is no mega looting...loosing 10b in budget of 25 trillion is no big deal.We should deal with graft like any routine crime.No drama.No exxageration.Just get the systems to deal with inevitable graft...on ongoing way without politicizing.

[RV Pundit]

When the economy tank then we can call it mega corruption.Ruto or Raila or Uhuru are too smart to leave their fingerprints n footprints...they have layers n layers of proxies to insulate them.So stop dreaming that Ruto is about to go down...If ICC with their lax evidence standard couldnt nail them..clearly they cant be nailed.Our politicians are too smart n powerful for our criminal systems..The money pass a intricate web of lawyers n bankers that launder the loot and eventually bank it as very very clean money.Those who get caught are the newbies who carry cash in gunny bags...but likes of Uhuru or Ruto or Raila or Moi are top in the game...it come with experience n territory.

The corruption we are talking about in Kenya is not the "normal" corruption.  We are talking mega corruption, blatant and in-your-face. The Jomo Kenyattaa day kind of corruption which a lot of people look back to with nostalgia was sustainable because it did not hamper economic growth. The Moi/ouru/Ruto corruption is different-its MEGA-unsustainable.  Something big has to happen for Kenya to downgrade from MEGA corruption to normal corruption. That big thing will require a sacrificial lamb. The biggest prize is Ruto.  If Ouru can get Ruto on corruption and successfully prosecute him, send him to jail, to exile  or pardon him in exchange for complete political emasculation  (the Njonjo model), then Ouru can bring up Gidi to wipe the tears of Kalenjins.  However, if ouru fails, and Ruto wins, he will have to sacrifice Ouru/Uthamaki at the alter of fighting the mega corruption and then reduce it to "normal" levels. Ruto has a steep hill to climb.  He has to survive the coming onslaught, and then ascend to power. Once he is in power then he has to take on Uthamaki and bring them to their knees. That's a tall order and I think he knows it and does not have a choice but to face it head on. Its ironic that the Mega corruption which both Ouru and Ruto have been the biggest beneficiaries,  of is also setting Ouru and Ruto on a collision cause that may consume both of them or leave only one of them standing.

Bitmask.Yes corruption will reduce on its own if somehow the economy grows.When it become 90s mega looting that affect the economy then that something else.We should focus on growing the economy so we have more opportunities for honest growth.And opposite is also true ..even if you reduce graft to zero like Rwanda its not the magic ward to progress.Rwanda has maybe zero graft but its growing at 1% more than kenya.There is the tendency to exxagerate the effect of graft..in short as long as there is no mega looting...loosing 10b in budget of 25 trillion is no big deal.We should deal with graft like any routine crime.No drama.No exxageration.Just get the systems to deal with inevitable graft...on ongoing way without politicizing.

[Kichwa]

There maybe no evidence to prosecute them in a court of law but in the court of public opinion, one does not need that kind of evidence. When Moi charged Njonjo of being Msaliti, there was really no court evidence.  Small people of course will be caught and sent to jail for corruption but to appease wanaichi's appetite for someone big to go down, a sacrificial lamb must be found.  If Ouru does not do it to Ruto or tries and fails, Ruto will do it to ouru or to some people around him. Hiyo tuu.

When the economy tank then we can call it mega corruption.Ruto or Raila or Uhuru are too smart to leave their fingerprints n footprints...they have layers n layers of proxies to insulate them.So stop dreaming that Ruto is about to go down...If ICC with their lax evidence standard couldnt nail them..clearly they cant be nailed.Our politicians are too smart n powerful for our criminal systems..The money pass a intricate web of lawyers n bankers that launder the loot and eventually bank it as very very clean money.Those who get caught are the newbies who carry cash in gunny bags...but likes of Uhuru or Ruto or Raila or Moi are top in the game...it come with experience n territory.

The corruption we are talking about in Kenya is not the "normal" corruption.  We are talking mega corruption, blatant and in-your-face. The Jomo Kenyattaa day kind of corruption which a lot of people look back to with nostalgia was sustainable because it did not hamper economic growth. The Moi/ouru/Ruto corruption is different-its MEGA-unsustainable.  Something big has to happen for Kenya to downgrade from MEGA corruption to normal corruption. That big thing will require a sacrificial lamb. The biggest prize is Ruto.  If Ouru can get Ruto on corruption and successfully prosecute him, send him to jail, to exile  or pardon him in exchange for complete political emasculation  (the Njonjo model), then Ouru can bring up Gidi to wipe the tears of Kalenjins.  However, if ouru fails, and Ruto wins, he will have to sacrifice Ouru/Uthamaki at the alter of fighting the mega corruption and then reduce it to "normal" levels. Ruto has a steep hill to climb.  He has to survive the coming onslaught, and then ascend to power. Once he is in power then he has to take on Uthamaki and bring them to their knees. That's a tall order and I think he knows it and does not have a choice but to face it head on. Its ironic that the Mega corruption which both Ouru and Ruto have been the biggest beneficiaries,  of is also setting Ouru and Ruto on a collision cause that may consume both of them or leave only one of them standing.

Bitmask.Yes corruption will reduce on its own if somehow the economy grows.When it become 90s mega looting that affect the economy then that something else.We should focus on growing the economy so we have more opportunities for honest growth.And opposite is also true ..even if you reduce graft to zero like Rwanda its not the magic ward to progress.Rwanda has maybe zero graft but its growing at 1% more than kenya.There is the tendency to exxagerate the effect of graft..in short as long as there is no mega looting...loosing 10b in budget of 25 trillion is no big deal.We should deal with graft like any routine crime.No drama.No exxageration.Just get the systems to deal with inevitable graft...on ongoing way without politicizing.

[Nefertiti]

Kichwa the part I don't get in your narrative is that Raila should accept part of the loot from Uhuru. He should not.

That Ruto is the big thief and Uhuru is just lazy. I doubt it. Uhuru is the megathief and most of these scandals are by his cronies and financiers. The reason DCI and NIS are leading the probe - and not the EACC - is so that they can go slow and sabotage the cases later after the gullible public is assuaged. EACC would be problematic since it's autonomous.

That "old money" is better than new money. Oh please, the old thieves have looted since independence and there is nothing positive about it. If you're right on this conjecture, at least the new crew might have something different to offer. Uhuru at 5 was a billionaire before Ruto was born. He has corrupt genes and it's unfair to expect him to change.

So in this "gang war" I hope Kenyatta and Moi - the looting families - get cut to size.

[Kichwa]

Maybe I was not clear.  1) I do not know whether Raila was given money or not but if, he were, so what! Its money that is already stolen and is not going to go back to wanaichi whether Raila takes it or not.  IKO NINI is my question.

2) Both ouru and Ruto are thieves-MEGA thiefs but one of them has to finish the other, its just the way it is.  Ouru waited too long to finish Ruto and therefore its going to be harder. Ruto already saw the writing on the wall and is fighting.  This running around by Ruto is not about 2022 but about his political survival right now.

3) there is no difference between new stolen money and old stolen money-they are all stolen and the new thieves are even more greedy because they want to catch up with the old money.


4) by attacking the dynasty, Ruto has made it impossible for the old monies to sit around and wait for him to get them. The old monies has not only the monies, but they have the government power that Ruto does not have yet. Ruto is therefore fighting an uphill battle just like Raila was not too long ago. Ruto can win, but I cannot bet on him given the levers of power and the bags of tricks that Uthamaki have at their disposal.

Listen to Ndii if you do not belief me.

Kichwa the part I don't get in your narrative is that Raila should accept part of the loot from Uhuru. He should not.

That Ruto is the big thief and Uhuru is just lazy. I doubt it. Uhuru is the megathief and most of these scandals are by his cronies and financiers. The reason DCI and NIS are leading the probe - and not the EACC - is so that they can go slow and sabotage the cases later after the gullible public is assuaged. EACC would be problematic since it's autonomous.

That "old money" is better than new money. Oh please, the old thieves have looted since independence and there is nothing positive about it. If you're right on this conjecture, at least the new crew might have something different to offer. Uhuru at 5 was a billionaire before Ruto was born. He has corrupt genes and it's unfair to expect him to change.

So in this "gang war" I hope Kenyatta and Moi - the looting families - get cut to size.

[Dear Mami]

It's always refreshing listening to Ndii. Interesting! I personally don't give 2 cents if Ruto is being targetted by Uhuru or if Uhuru is gonna be targeted by Ruto. Po-tay-to, po-tuh-to. Like asking people to choose between the kettle and the pot. Making noise in Kenya about corruption is useless because elections. Raila should stop involving himself in this corruption narratives and watch things get worse until Kenyans themselves do something about it instead of supporting the corrupt while demanding that others fight the corruption on their behalf. Kenyans are spoilt and that's why graft continues. When Kenyans realize that its everyone's job, then graft will end because the people themselves will make it costly to be caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Moonki was right. If not, then Termie's way of a country founded around corruption is the only hope short of collapse.

[RV Pundit]

In short Raila should retire. He is ODM party leader - the majority party in our multi-party democracy and he receives funding from treasury - to precisely oversight gov. The problem with Raila is the approach - his criticism is never constructive. It more personalized attacks based on unfounded rumours  and therefore yeah it's a very welcome relief that he stay silent - perhaps we can start evidence driven corruption fight.

It's always refreshing listening to Ndii. Interesting! I personally don't give 2 cents if Ruto is being targetted by Uhuru or if Uhuru is gonna be targeted by Ruto. Po-tay-to, po-tuh-to. Like asking people to choose between the kettle and the pot. Making noise in Kenya about corruption is useless because elections. Raila should stop involving himself in this corruption narratives and watch things get worse until Kenyans themselves do something about it instead of supporting the corrupt while demanding that others fight the corruption on their behalf. Kenyans are spoilt and that's why graft continues. When Kenyans realize that its everyone's job, then graft will end because the people themselves will make it costly to be caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Moonki was right. If not, then Termie's way of a country founded around corruption is the only hope short of collapse.

[Dear Mami]

Restire from what? Raila does not occupy any constitutional office. He is free to spend his time as he wishes and talking about what he wishes. But if I were close to him I would advise him to say nothing at all. Just give lectures. Let Kenyans themselves fight for their own futures, its the only way lasting change happens. Otherwise leaving it to a few people to do it for you, why? Nope. If its ok then its ok and we should accept it as part of our society like Termi says. Evidence driven fight. Who shall collect this evidence? Like I said, if we are comfortable with it then we are confortable with it. Theres no point of useless noise.

[RV Pundit]

Retire as ODM leader and NASA - I think he already did that - it's upon MaDVD/Kalonzo and others to step up the plate and do the job of making sure gov is kept in check - both within parliament and outside parliament. Wira ni wira. People should do their opposition job. Miguna Miguna is doing it pro-bono - and it would be nice if he can get paid like Raila from treasury to do that.

Restire from what? Raila does not occupy any constitutional office. He is free to spend his time as he wishes and talking about what he wishes. But if I were close to him I would advise him to say nothing at all. Just give lectures. Let Kenyans themselves fight for their own futures, its the only way lasting change happens. Otherwise leaving it to a few people to do it for you, why? Nope. If its ok then its ok and we should accept it as part of our society like Termi says. Evidence driven fight. Who shall collect this evidence? Like I said, if we are comfortable with it then we are confortable with it. Theres no point of useless noise.

[hk]

Bitmask.Yes corruption will reduce on its own if somehow the economy grows.When it become 90s mega looting that affect the economy then that something else.We should focus on growing the economy so we have more opportunities for honest growth.And opposite is also true ..even if you reduce graft to zero like Rwanda its not the magic ward to progress.Rwanda has maybe zero graft but its growing at 1% more than kenya.There is the tendency to exxagerate the effect of graft..in short as long as there is no mega looting...loosing 10b in budget of 25 trillion is no big deal.We should deal with graft like any routine crime.No drama.No exxageration.Just get the systems to deal with inevitable graft...on ongoing way without politicizing.

Its true that zero corruption in itself can't necessarily be the panacea to economic growth. However the distortion and misallocation of funds manifest itself in inflated assets. Which would explain why real estate prices in kenya has skyrocketed especially high-end market, explosion of luxury market for vehicles etc. This has real economic consequences which reverberates through entire economy.   

[hk]

.

Listen to Ndii if you do not belief me.

There's one thing I can agree with Ndii, overallocation of funds is the problem. To ndii total collapse of financial management system. 
seriously how can ifmis be allocated 140b or $1.4b over the last 4 yrs. Ketraco is allocated 280b and yet they can't even build the turkana transmission line to evacuate  power from africa largest wind farm? Way back 2015 when government experienced the first cash crunch that's when things really got off the rails. Subsequently the government has been borrowing and now raising taxes to try to keep spending to maintain decent GDP growth. The 4 agenda will only exacerbate the situation but moment of reckoning is nigh.

[RV Pundit]

IFMIS 1.4B dollars can't be true. Maybe 1.4Kshs - which is more reasonable - Budget making is now parliament+treasury - so you expect parliament will do a thorough job vetting - and I think they do - Mbadi when not politicking does a good job with Rev Mustavi. Ketraco & GDC - they need to be investigated - GDC especially has sunk so much money and I doubt there has been any MW out of their sojurns in Nakuru & Baringo.

.

Listen to Ndii if you do not belief me.

There's one thing I can agree with Ndii, overallocation of funds is the problem. To ndii total collapse of financial management system. 
seriously how can ifmis be allocated 140b or $1.4b over the last 4 yrs. Ketraco is allocated 280b and yet they can't even build the turkana transmission line to evacuate  power from africa largest wind farm? Way back 2015 when government experienced the first cash crunch that's when things really got off the rails. Subsequently the government has been borrowing and now raising taxes to try to keep spending to maintain decent GDP growth. The 4 agenda will only exacerbate the situation but moment of reckoning is nigh.