Ruto was born a thief and hypocrite

[MOON Ki]

There are Kenyans who care.  The fact is they don't matter, in terms of sheer numbers.  They don't register on the political horizon.  There are aren't enough of them to even win a ward.  Given those conditions, why would the leaders suddenly change behavior?  What is in it for them?

In normal places, voters going to the polls have in mind (and talk about) the economy, jobs, health, education, the delivery of services for which they are taxed, etc.  Kenyan voters apparently have no use for any of that; you certainly won't hear any related talk or whatever.  But they sure as hell know who the "best" person is.   

Ask those crowds at rallies why they getting worked up, and you'll be lucky to get even an attempt at an answer. Those people who are now getting into the usual cycle of beating the crap out of (and sometimes even killing) others during the "election period".  Ask them why, and, if they are lucid to the extent that they can be, the best reason they will give is that those others are competing against their man.  That's it.   

The travel advisories, warnings about risks to the economy ... have started coming in.  But who cares?  Why should it have to be that way?  What exactly is the violence for?  Who cares.  That's how we do it.   All par for the course.   

Robina wrote about the "independents", who want a debate on the issues, etc.    The 1500 "independents" aren't enough to make anyone sit up and take notice, much less make a difference.    Of the other 39,998,500: give me last names and the villages of origin, and I will give you an accurate prediction of how they will vote (at both local and national levels).  I can't imagine why people even bother with polls in Kenyan elections. 

Kichwa's idealism---

even if there was only  one person out there who still cares, the story must still be told

---is very admirable, as far as it goes .... which is about as far as one can grab a tumbo-crat and toss him.  Not very far.  As a matter of simple practicality, "one person" works in only two cases: (a) the one person who already has the power also has will and inclination to do what is necessary, and (b)   the masses give the power to one person who has ... etc.  Just "telling the story" won't do: how many more stories do Kenyans need to hear about corruption and the failures of their successive governments?     

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Kichwa's idealism---

even if there was only  one person out there who still cares, the story must still be told

---is very admirable, as far as it goes .... which is about as far as one can grab a tumbo-crat and toss him.  Not very far.  As a matter of simple practicality, "one person" works in only two cases: (a) the one person who already has the power also has will and inclination to do what is necessary, and (b)   the masses give the power to one person who has ... etc.  Just "telling the story" won't do: how many more stories do Kenyans need to hear about corruption and the failures of their successive governments?     

Yep. If you look hard enough you will find them; making noises that nobody pays attention to.  More generally though, I bet, the proportion of the population that cares about anything outside of tribe is shrinking over time.  A decade ago, more people would have been outraged by what passes for mundane hustling today.  Put another way, the number that kichwa is counting on to make a difference with their outrage at some future date are actually becoming more powerless.  I long came to the conclusion that Kenyans are just fine with what they have and get.

[Kichwa]

Moonki/ Windy:  There is nothing the party in power love more than cynics, and moral equivalency arguments. For example, Ouru and Ruto do not even bother  to defend the charges of massive corruption anymore. The evidence is overwhelming and its stupid to defend it. However,  all they do now is to charge the opposition of being corrupt and make up staff because we live in an era of alternative news-anything goes.  The reason why they brought up the Joho certificate issue is to build up cynicism  and to confuse the people to a point where they'd rather trust the devil they know than the one in opposition.   They have hired pollsters and pundits to argue that this elections is over. The effect is voter suppression and apathy.  Their aim is that  many  people in the opposition zones will not even bother vote because they have been made to believe that  Ouru will be the president whether he wins or not  OR that there is no difference between Jubilee and the opposition.

Unfortunately the public is very easy to manipulate even in the developed world in this era of enhanced mass media.    I refuse to join the cynics.  I still have believe that we have to fight for change no matter what the odds look like.  I see this race as a marathon and not a 100m dash.

[MOON Ki]

Moonki/ Windy:  There is nothing those who misrule love more than cynics, and moral equivalency.  Ouru and Ruto do not even bother to defend the accusations that they are corrupt.  All they do is say that the opposition is just as corrupt or more corrupt. A lot of people will not even bother voting because they either believe that Ouru will be the president whether he wins or not  OR that there is no difference between Jubilee and the opposition.  This is whats killing our country.  During the Kenyattaa/Moi days, Kenyans still believed that change would come.  Now most people believe that the system will never change and therefore one must help themselves. I refuse to join the choir. I still have believe that we have to fight for change no matter what the odds look like.  I see this as a marathon and not a 100m dash.

Perhaps they will bother when the country has been killed enough to make life sufficiently unpleasant for them.

Again, when most people reach a point where they have had enough of the system, they will take the action required to change it.

The odds in this case are the aforementioned "most people" who can't be bothered.  Good luck in fighting them.

[Kichwa]

Agree.  Some people have to keep the light on.

Moonki/ Windy:  There is nothing those who misrule love more than cynics, and moral equivalency.  Ouru and Ruto do not even bother to defend the accusations that they are corrupt.  All they do is say that the opposition is just as corrupt or more corrupt. A lot of people will not even bother voting because they either believe that Ouru will be the president whether he wins or not  OR that there is no difference between Jubilee and the opposition.  This is whats killing our country.  During the Kenyattaa/Moi days, Kenyans still believed that change would come.  Now most people believe that the system will never change and therefore one must help themselves. I refuse to join the choir. I still have believe that we have to fight for change no matter what the odds look like.  I see this as a marathon and not a 100m dash.

Perhaps they will bother when the country has been killed enough to make life sufficiently unpleasant for them.

Again, when most people reach a point where they have had enough of the system, they will take the action required to change it.

The odds in this case are the aforementioned "most people" who can't be bothered.  Good luck in fighting them.

[Nefertiti]

It is fair to say Sub Sahara Africa needs 50-100 years of evolution to achieve the governance standard needed for proper socioeconomic development.

That seems a bit cynical to me.   Why should that be the case?   What do we lack?   After all, we have educational systems that are based on those in the "successful countries"; our best and brightest have studied at their best educational institutions; we do not have to go through the same experiences in order to learn lessons in governance; we benefit from technology, judicial systems, etc. that took them ages to develop; we insist that we are just as capable; etc., etc., etc.   What exactly is it that we can't do right now, and why?

I am just being pragmatic . Culture is harder to change than, say, physical infrastructure. So we can employ BVR and other hifi means of elections, western education and judiciary, etc, even plagiarize a western katiba! but so long as we have the same "3rd world" minds the results will be the same. The west and now the Chinese took eons to adopt the zero-tolerance integrity and meritocracy culture we see now. How soon do you expect to see Kenya execute a parliamentary speaker or cabinet secretary as happens so often in China... while EACC won't touch confessed thieves?

50-100  years is my estimate... likely to include a few civil wars.

[MOON Ki]

The west and now the Chinese took eons to adopt the zero-tolerance integrity and meritocracy culture we see now.

True.   But should it then necessarily follow that we too must take eons?  Look all around you in Kenya.   We are enjoying things, material and otherwise, that too the West, the Chinese, etc. eons to develop.   Nobody suggests that we wait for eons to enjoy them.   Why should we claim an exception when it comes to governance?   We go to similar (and sometimes the same) schools; learn medicine, engineering, philosophy, whatever; and then apply the learning.    Why not the same with governance?   Is there any reason why we cannot, without waiting for eons to pass, learn the lessons from others the lessons that took them years and apply those in a shorter period?

[Kichwa]

Moonki-I believe that is the argument I was making-somehow. In 2002 for a few weeks we saw a glimmer of hope.  Also in 2008 after NARA was signed, and after the new Katiba prevailed in the referendum there was some hope.  I think change may come sooner than we think. 2017 or 2022.  In this case, I do not think that those who are being pessimistic have a better barometer than those who are being optimistic.

The west and now the Chinese took eons to adopt the zero-tolerance integrity and meritocracy culture we see now.

True.   But should it then necessarily follow that we too must take eons?  Look all around you in Kenya.   We are enjoying things, material and otherwise, that too the West, the Chinese, etc. eons to develop.   Nobody suggests that we wait for eons to enjoy them.   Why should we claim an exception when it comes to governance?   We go to similar (and sometimes the same) schools; learn medicine, engineering, philosophy, whatever; and then apply the learning.    Why not the same with governance?   Is there any reason why we cannot, without waiting for eons to pass, learn the lessons from others the lessons that took them years and apply those in a shorter period?

[MOON Ki]

Moonki-I believe that is the argument I was making-somehow. In 2002 for a few weeks we saw a glimmer of hope.  Also in 2008 after NARA was signed, and after the new Katiba prevailed in the referendum there was some hope.  I think change may come sooner than we think. 2017 or 2022.  In this case, I do not think that those who are being pessimistic have a better barometer than those who are being optimistic.

I see a seemingly-small but actually quite significant difference in our views:

- I merely believe that it is possible for us to "uplift" ourselves in fairly short order. Nothing really stands in the way, nor do we lack any fundamentals.

- You, on the other hand, seem to believe that not only is it possible but that we will actually do it.

I'm all for optimism, but I see little evidence to support yours.  Given Kenya's history, 2002 was an "aberration", created by Moi beating the crap out of people for 24 years.    In 2008, we had another "aberration", when we nearly went the standard "African Way".    Kenyans don't really care for change unless things are really, really bad, and on the present path, 2017 or 2022 are unlikely years.     

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

It is fair to say Sub Sahara Africa needs 50-100 years of evolution to achieve the governance standard needed for proper socioeconomic development.

That seems a bit cynical to me.   Why should that be the case?   What do we lack?   After all, we have educational systems that are based on those in the "successful countries"; our best and brightest have studied at their best educational institutions; we do not have to go through the same experiences in order to learn lessons in governance; we benefit from technology, judicial systems, etc. that took them ages to develop; we insist that we are just as capable; etc., etc., etc.   What exactly is it that we can't do right now, and why?

I am just being pragmatic . Culture is harder to change than, say, physical infrastructure. So we can employ BVR and other hifi means of elections, western education and judiciary, etc, even plagiarize a western katiba! but so long as we have the same "3rd world" minds the results will be the same. The west and now the Chinese took eons to adopt the zero-tolerance integrity and meritocracy culture we see now. How soon do you expect to see Kenya execute a parliamentary speaker or cabinet secretary as happens so often in China... while EACC won't touch confessed thieves?

50-100  years is my estimate... likely to include a few civil wars.

Where one culture will be alarmed by certain behavior, another one will see that things are perfect and they are taking off.  Even if things evolve, there is nothing to suggest evolution is biased towards any direction.  It can even go "backwards".  There is this assumption, mistaken I think, that all people will one day end up organized in a certain way.

[Gumzo]

Perhaps they will bother when the country has been killed enough to make life sufficiently unpleasant for them.

Again, when most people reach a point where they have had enough of the system,  they will take the action required to change it.

The odds in this case are the aforementioned "most people" who can't be bothered.  Good luck in fighting them.

Kenya is not the first country to be in this exact same situation
When things get to a certain point the ONLY WAY to change is through violence (lots of blood)
or at the bare minimum a series of assassinations where major players in the corrupt system are
removed.

Respectfully;