Author Topic: Moment of Truth for Rawal  (Read 8173 times)

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2016, 12:09:06 AM »
Njoki exposed herself as intellectually weak.

That she is.   Some of her reasoning has been staggeringly off-base. Obviously she is not going anywhere, but the JSC has, as far as I can tell, quite a good case against her (and the High Court has "cleared" it to go ahead).  Another "misconduct" chalk-mark ...

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For the first time I was able to see Smokin Wanjala in his element. He is clearly C.J Material.

He's good.   The only person on the current court that I see as a worthy replacement of Mutunga.   Otherwise, it's the Court of Appeals.
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Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2016, 12:16:45 AM »
Where can I find the proceedings as they happened?
Fat chance. The lazy and silly journalists we have along with timid editorial boards all round could never allow that. You can download the copious rulings from all the 5 judges along with the court orders but proceedings are simply not the thing for our judiciary.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2016, 12:44:56 AM »
So effectively Tunoi and Rawal are retired. One would hope the rest can follow suit and retire. As of no we are left with Smokin, Ibrahim and Ojwang. Supreme court should have the very best...and It doesnt look like we got any.

Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2016, 02:16:33 PM »

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2016, 02:58:10 PM »
What happens with the Tunoi corruption probe?  Does it now become part of the joke that is the Kenyan judicial carousel as a criminal enjoys retirement benefits he is not entitled to?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 03:02:12 PM »
I think there is a limbo. They are entitled to an appeal in supreme court. They cannot appeal because 3 of 5 judges reclused themselves. So the appeal has not been heard. So they have to wait until such a time that a proper supreme court can sit, hear their appeal and make a ruling.
What happens with the Tunoi corruption probe?  Does it now become part of the joke that is the Kenyan judicial carousel as a criminal enjoys retirement benefits he is not entitled to?

Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2016, 03:37:11 PM »
I think they have lost. Why

For there to be a quorum three new judges have to be recruited.

There are now only two who have declared themselves competent to hear the case - Njoki and Ojwang. Ibrahim and Smokin have recused themselves.

There is no way that number can be reached without replacing Rawal and Tunoi as well as the CJ.

Even then they will not be in the clear for an inefficacious positive result. Why because the majority (all new judges)+ Smokin who did not recuse himself on that issue, could still disqualify Njoki and Ojwang from hearing it thus going back to another lack of quorum in that case.

My advice would be that Rawal and Tunoi go home and use the fact that there was no SCK appeal to lighten their burden. They were out-foxed. When 12 judges rule against you with the real possibility that some of them will end up at the SCK, it is hard to contemplate a victory. In event a High Court of CoA judge who ruled against them is recruited, that seals the case for good as there will never be a quorum of judges not prejudiced.

May be I have missed one or two scenarios but frankly Tunoi and Rawal should start thinking about the country.
 
I think there is a limbo. They are entitled to an appeal in supreme court. They cannot appeal because 3 of 5 judges reclused themselves. So the appeal has not been heard. So they have to wait until such a time that a proper supreme court can sit, hear their appeal and make a ruling.
What happens with the Tunoi corruption probe?  Does it now become part of the joke that is the Kenyan judicial carousel as a criminal enjoys retirement benefits he is not entitled to?

Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2016, 03:44:31 PM »
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CJ Mutunga: Supreme court judge Mohamed Ibrahim is the acting president of the supreme court


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2016, 03:52:36 PM »
Yeah that is right. Their appeal will stay in limbo. They need to cut their "losses" and retire.
I think they have lost. Why

For there to be a quorum three new judges have to be recruited.

There are now only two who have declared themselves competent to hear the case - Njoki and Ojwang. Ibrahim and Smokin have recused themselves.

There is no way that number can be reached without replacing Rawal and Tunoi as well as the CJ.

Even then they will not be in the clear for an inefficacious positive result. Why because the majority (all new judges)+ Smokin who did not recuse himself on that issue, could still disqualify Njoki and Ojwang from hearing it thus going back to another lack of quorum in that case.

My advice would be that Rawal and Tunoi go home and use the fact that there was no SCK appeal to lighten their burden. They were out-foxed. When 12 judges rule against you with the real possibility that some of them will end up at the SCK, it is hard to contemplate a victory. In event a High Court of CoA judge who ruled against them is recruited, that seals the case for good as there will never be a quorum of judges not prejudiced.

May be I have missed one or two scenarios but frankly Tunoi and Rawal should start thinking about the country.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 04:23:46 PM »
What happens with the Tunoi corruption probe?  Does it now become part of the joke that is the Kenyan judicial carousel as a criminal enjoys retirement benefits he is not entitled to?

There is nothing to legally stop the EACC, DCI, etc. from looking into the criminal aspects of the matter, whether the tribunal finishes its work or disbands.    Will that happen?   I doubt it.   Take a look at how many coppers have been sent home on the basis of questionable income, and consider how many of those simply went off to quietly enjoy their loot.     
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2016, 04:32:58 PM »


Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2016, 04:36:47 PM »
It's over. Hands over the flag:


Offline Simanova

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2016, 04:38:26 PM »
The Acting Chief Justice. I wonder if that had something to say about his decision to cut Ojwang and Njoki loose... just a thought :D:


Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2016, 06:18:01 PM »
What happens with the Tunoi corruption probe?  Does it now become part of the joke that is the Kenyan judicial carousel as a criminal enjoys retirement benefits he is not entitled to?

There is nothing to legally stop the EACC, DCI, etc. from looking into the criminal aspects of the matter, whether the tribunal finishes its work or disbands.    Will that happen?   I doubt it.   Take a look at how many coppers have been sent home on the basis of questionable income, and consider how many of those simply went off to quietly enjoy their loot.     
I expect nothing to come of it.  And Wanjiku has conditioned herself to accept retirement/quitting in some cases even being grilled as sufficient punishment.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2016, 06:31:45 PM »
It's over. Hands over the flag:


Ann Amadi exudes dignified statuesque beauty.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2016, 06:34:41 PM »
I think nothing will come out of it because Tunoi has turned the tables on his accusers. I guess facts like those are nothing for you guys as your position were pre-hardened. At some point I thought Tunoi was guilty but the last few days I have changed my mind. Tunoi seem to have been a casualty of Mutunga and his gang power scheme. There seem to have been attempt to bribe him but nothing so far suggest they succeeded. If you accept Tunoi was bribed then we must accept the rest of the bench were also bribed.
I expect nothing to come of it.  And Wanjiku has conditioned herself to accept retirement/quitting in some cases even being grilled as sufficient punishment.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2016, 06:36:44 PM »
I expect nothing to come of it.  And Wanjiku has conditioned herself to accept retirement/quitting in some cases even being grilled as sufficient punishment.

"Grilling" seems to be near the extreme end of the scale.   The standard level is "record a statement".   If things are viewed as really serious, then people might be "quizzed".   
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2016, 06:40:54 PM »
I think nothing will come out of it because Tunoi has turned the tables on his accusers. I guess facts like those are nothing for you guys as your position were pre-hardened. At some point I thought Tunoi was guilty but the last few days I have changed my mind. Tunoi seem to have been a casualty of Mutunga and his gang power scheme.
I expect nothing to come of it.  And Wanjiku has conditioned herself to accept retirement/quitting in some cases even being grilled as sufficient punishment.
Nothing will come out of it because it's dead.  Does that mean Tunoi is innocent.  Not necessarily.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2016, 06:43:00 PM »
If you accept Tunoi was bribed then we must accept the rest of the bench were also bribed.

Not necessarily.   In "strategic bribery", it suffices to bribe the person who is (or at least "reasonably" claims) to be in a position to sway others, and influencing the "others" need not involve bribing them.     
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Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Moment of Truth for Rawal
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2016, 06:43:33 PM »
I expect nothing to come of it.  And Wanjiku has conditioned herself to accept retirement/quitting in some cases even being grilled as sufficient punishment.

"Grilling" seems to be near the extreme end of the scale.   The standard level is "record a statement".   If things are viewed as really serious, then people might be "quizzed".   
Yep.  For avoidance of doubt.  Maybe to deflect accusations of double standards.  In a certain societies, Kidero would also be utterly scammed.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman