Author Topic: Gaitho on Madaraka Day  (Read 3813 times)

Offline MOON Ki

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Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« on: June 02, 2015, 12:35:32 AM »
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http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Real-value-of-madaraka/-/440808/2736666/-/m5ygrqz/-/index.html
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Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 03:32:25 AM »
I have always seen Gaitho as an apologist for Uhuru.  He usually seeks to blunt real criticism by acting as a gatekeeper.

Here is a Madaraka day event from another corner of the country.
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http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Fear-as-gunmen-invade-Mandera-village/-/1056/2736086/-/iid286z/-/index.html
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 05:35:55 AM »
Which country has achieve the utopia of fair and just society for everyone. This looks to me like game of shifting goal posts. The indicators that matters [on development] cannot be ignored or derided for some fuzzy unattainable ones like equal society.

Gaitho sometimes tries to hard to criticize for it sake. There are issues that are worth criticism today....one of which is runaway graft and of course insecurity. Not nonsense like fair and equal chance...how about his shares his 1m salary with a chokora to achieve that dream.

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http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Real-value-of-madaraka/-/440808/2736666/-/m5ygrqz/-/index.html

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 03:41:17 PM »
Which country has achieve the utopia of fair and just society for everyone. This looks to me like game of shifting goal posts.

Having less inequality does not necessarily mean having "utopia".   Anyways .... his overall assessment is on the mark and hard to argue with:

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"the foolish ones supporting the regime because they imagine that ethnic or familial ties place them closer to the feeding trough."

and

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"The truth is that despite all the `development', Kenya remains one of the most unequal and unjust societies in the world; a violent, backward, atavistic, corrupt society where a thieving mafia rules and primitive accumulation by those in power is the order of the day."
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2015, 04:04:45 PM »
Which country has achieve the utopia of fair and just society for everyone. This looks to me like game of shifting goal posts. The indicators that matters [on development] cannot be ignored or derided for some fuzzy unattainable ones like equal society.

Gaitho sometimes tries to hard to criticize for it sake. There are issues that are worth criticism today....one of which is runaway graft and of course insecurity. Not nonsense like fair and equal chance...how about his shares his 1m salary with a chokora to achieve that dream.

Quote

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Real-value-of-madaraka/-/440808/2736666/-/m5ygrqz/-/index.html
Problem is, no leader seems to tackle problems head on. Kenyatta talks but no action. He has lately tried but he has not followed up by action. Suspending is good but taking ill gotten wealth is the solution. Quality of education has decreased to the point it is almost worthless to send kids to public schools. Cant say so of 1970s and 80s. I went to publc school and was proud. Am sure most of us will think twice before venturing into it.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2015, 04:41:13 PM »
Fair and Just society is the least of our problem.it probably a problem in Equitorial guinea or Qatar where gdp per capita on paper is 40Kusd but most folks are poor..otherwise simple maths will tell you if we share our wealth equally and justifiably...we will still have per capita of 1500 or less per annum.

Which country has achieve the utopia of fair and just society for everyone. This looks to me like game of shifting goal posts.

Having less inequality does not necessarily mean having "utopia".   Anyways .... his overall assessment is on the mark and hard to argue with:

Quote
"the foolish ones supporting the regime because they imagine that ethnic or familial ties place them closer to the feeding trough."

and

Quote
"The truth is that despite all the `development', Kenya remains one of the most unequal and unjust societies in the world; a violent, backward, atavistic, corrupt society where a thieving mafia rules and primitive accumulation by those in power is the order of the day."


Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2015, 05:31:03 PM »
Fair and Just society is the least of our problem.it probably a problem in Equitorial guinea or Qatar where gdp per capita on paper is 40Kusd but most folks are poor..otherwise simple maths will tell you if we share our wealth equally and justifiably...we will still have per capita of 1500 or less per annum.

The first part above seems to confuse two different things:

(a) having a lot and not sharing it in a reasonable way; and
(b) sharing reasonably whatever there is.

Eq. Guinea belongs to the first category; on other hand, there are countries next door that have less than Kenya but fewer inequalities.

Red: One of Gaitho's points is that focusing on figures like GDP per capita is not good enough, and it is not good enough for an obvious reason: not everyone in a country has the said slice.   The case you give of Eq. Guinea is a good example.   In any case, the argument for trying to achieve better equality is not that it will increase a country's total wealth; so it is odd to have an argument that better sharing will not change GDP per capita.

Another point is that disparities in "wealth" is not just an issue  of how much the average person has.   In fact, huge disparities are likely to cause more problems in a rich country than in a poor one, and a place like Eq Guinea is actually an extreme peculiarity.   The top 1% of the USA owns about 35% of its wealth.   Considering the circumstances of the average American, that is not as bad as a similar percentage in a poor country.

The most immediate effect of inequalities in a place like Kenya is the rise of social problems, e.g. crime, which it turn affect the quality of life.  What drives "social crime" (car-jackings, violent home break-ins, etc.)  in a place like Nairobi is not the mere fact that it has many  poor people.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2015, 06:17:24 PM »
Nobody has said inequality is not a problem; It just least of our problem; There are way more indicators that we need to track; and those same indicators are the same that Gaitho has dismissed. I know most journalist are maths challenged and would prefer to deal with fuzzy ideas...however these indicators..."kilometres of road and railways completed, schools and hospitals built, jobs created, and generally dazzle with economic data"..are the MOST IMPORTANT indicators. So are crime levels...could be inequality..could be lack of policing..could failed judicial systems...all those are indicators of Insecurity..with least possibly being someone feeling unequal decides then to steal. The world is and  has always been unequal.

And that is why these indicators are tracked seriously. We spend 10B kshs on KNBS to track those indicators. Private research institution and universities do the same. WB,IMF, OECD and name any other else does the same.

TRACKING THE MOST important indicators...not going around with funny stats like happiness index (like you could determine) or inequality or so called human development index (like there are non-human development around)...is what we need to do.

Debate around the most important indicators (not happiness index) is where politics and journalism should be centered.

Gaitho should be punctuating his article with hard data...of whether we are making progress or not..around Key Indicators...not writing copious amount of nonsensical string of words..not backed by any facts...more like the religious bs one listen to in a church.

This is what every serious household, private company, public institution and gov does...TRACK important KPIs...not get distracted by hard to define nonsense...we can measure the kilometres of paved roads in a scientific way..we cannot really determined how many kilometers of happiness or equality or justice we got this year..without sounding like those third rate studies by social scientist.


The first part above seems to confuse two different things:

(a) having a lot and not sharing it in a reasonable way; and
(b) sharing reasonably whatever there is.

Eq. Guinea belongs to the first category; on other hand, there are countries next door that have less than Kenya but fewer inequalities.

Red: One of Gaitho's points is that focusing on figures like GDP per capita is not good enough, and it is not good enough for an obvious reason: not everyone in a country has the said slice.   The case you give of Eq. Guinea is a good example.   In any case, the argument for trying to achieve better equality is not that it will increase a country's total wealth; so it is odd to have an argument that better sharing will not change GDP per capita.

Another point is that disparities in "wealth" is not just an issue  of how much the average person has.   In fact, huge disparities are likely to cause more problems in a rich country than in a poor one, and a place like Eq Guinea is actually an extreme peculiarity.   The top 1% of the USA owns about 35% of its wealth.   Considering the circumstances of the average American, that is not as bad as a similar percentage in a poor country.

The most immediate effect of inequalities in a place like Kenya is the rise of social problems, e.g. crime, which it turn affect the quality of life.  What drives "social crime" (car-jackings, violent home break-ins, etc.)  in a place like Nairobi is not the mere fact that it has many  poor people.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Gaitho on Madaraka Day
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2015, 08:18:00 PM »
I know most journalist are maths challenged and would prefer to deal with fuzzy ideas...however these indicators..."

Not everything can be reduced to maths, but is that is what works for you, then there is a well-known mathematical measure of inequality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

The World Bank, which you mention, also has this in its resource pages:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTPA/Resources/429966-1259774805724/Poverty_Inequality_Handbook_Ch06.pdf

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so called human development index (like there are non-human development around)...

As it turns out, there are all sorts of development of things, as opposed to humans.    One can see it all around.   

Lastly, it should be noted that inequality is limited to just inequality it income or wealth.  I encourage you to read the most recent UN report on such matters:

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/documents/reports/InequalityMatters.pdf
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.