Panic Has Entered Kenya; God Help Us

[Omollo]

DB

Nobody on this board supports violence. We are all for peace. It sad that when we ask questions of the government as is our right and point out mistakes and errors as we conscientious and patriotic citizens should, the knee-jerk reaction to to label us names and in some cases unleash killers of the many EJK squads.

For record, RV Pundit led the opposition to the deployment in Somalia. He and I joined by many people (some who have since crossed over to support what they originally opposed) tried to appeal to common sense. We could with examples show why Kenya as a neighbor of Somalia could not get involved in their civil war. We pointed out that history has shown such an involvement only succeeds in expanding the war in to areas it was not before starting with the intervening country.

Cambodia got involved in the Vietnam war by allowing both the Vietnamese and the Americans to use their country to launch attacks on each other. She ended up in the thick of it and remained in that war long after it ended in Vietnam.

I am afraid just like Pundit has pointed out, if we pull out today, we have to work hard to win the insurgency that will grow in the former NFD for the next two decades. Only hard work and honesty will help us win otherwise there is a real danger that the very Somalia we are helping to stabilize will work against us in that struggle.

Lastly, something I have been meaning to say: When did Kenya's policy of having a weak Somalia change? The independence of Kenya was guaranteed by the continued weakness of Somalia. We were content to help Ethiopia weaken Somalia. Ethiopia was doing a good job on her own for us. Why did we get in to it directly?

Omollo captures it very well. In a related development, I'm just hearing that KU students fled their hostels after a letter surfaced in the institution that Al Shabaab were planning a number on them. They refused to sleep in the hostels and could be found in places as far as K1. Hostels in places like Kahawa West were full to capacity. In an attempt to restore order, police have been poured into the university but the students are skeptical. In one stroke of terror, Al Shabaab have brought tourism in Kenya to nothing. Now university education is in shambles just like Omollo said.
I'm no advocate for violence but

[mya88]

Panic is not a bad thing ... it leads to people awakening their natural instincts of fight or flight in cases of danger ... we are having very docile executive, judiciary, legislature, police, army, population given we have all grown up in 'island of peace' era mindset

this islamic extremism -al shaitan, boko haram, ISIs.... if it will have achieved one positive thing it is putting populations and institutions in affected nations out of their shallow comfort zones ...

when people start asking 'if uhuru/odinga/ruto can't protect my kid what is his use?' ...that is a milestone for our personal and collective societal development

That is the real tragedy in all these....that merely asking questions is considered a milestone by Kenyan standards......The alshabab outfit has attacked us time and time again, from Westgate to mpeketoni, while we ask questions, no one has resigned, no police reforms have been undertaken, nothing.....yet we continue to ask questions. I think the time for asking questions is way past...its time to act. If the government will not protect us and our families, it is time we take matters into our own hands. People cannot continue dying while we are still asking questions. Now they have kids too scared to even stay in school, and parents too shaken to even let their kids stay on campus any more....when did this become okay. People should be putting pressure on our politician

[GeeMail]

I agree entirely. When the government failed to secure private homes it was forced to accept the concept of community policing though it didn't go far enough. Vigilante groups and community policing are not the same. People didn't just ask questions. Private homes began hiring private security because the government has failed, police have failed in their work. Private individuals own guns precisely because police have failed. Pokots and Turkanas own AKs because police have failed. I'm no advocate for violence but some countries where private individuals own guns (Sweden for example) there are very few incidents of armed attacks on homes. Just wondering whether arming university students can help. Or shall Kenya post armed marshals to student hostels like they do in American schools?

Notice the attempt at moral equivalence by the previous poster.

Panic is not a bad thing ... it leads to people awakening their natural instincts of fight or flight in cases of danger ... we are having very docile executive, judiciary, legislature, police, army, population given we have all grown up in 'island of peace' era mindset

this islamic extremism -al shaitan, boko haram, ISIs.... if it will have achieved one positive thing it is putting populations and institutions in affected nations out of their shallow comfort zones ...

when people start asking 'if uhuru/odinga/ruto can't protect my kid what is his use?' ...that is a milestone for our personal and collective societal development

That is the real tragedy in all these....that merely asking questions is considered a milestone by Kenyan standards......The alshabab outfit has attacked us time and time again, from Westgate to mpeketoni, while we ask questions, no one has resigned, no police reforms have been undertaken, nothing.....yet we continue to ask questions. I think the time for asking questions is way past...its time to act. If the government will not protect us and our families, it is time we take matters into our own hands. People cannot continue dying while we are still asking questions. Now they have kids too scared to even stay in school, and parents too shaken to even let their kids stay on campus any more....when did this become okay. People should be putting pressure on our politician

[mya88]

I agree entirely. When the government failed to secure private homes it was forced to accept the concept of community policing though it didn't go far enough. Vigilante groups and community policing are not the same. People didn't just ask questions. Private homes began hiring private security because the government has failed, police have failed in their work. Private individuals own guns precisely because police have failed. Pokots and Turkanas own AKs because police have failed. I'm no advocate for violence but some countries where private individuals own guns (Sweden for example) there are very few incidents of armed attacks on homes. Just wondering whether arming university students can help. Or shall Kenya post armed marshals to student hostels like they do in American schools?

Notice the attempt at moral equivalence by the previous poster.

Panic is not a bad thing ... it leads to people awakening their natural instincts of fight or flight in cases of danger ... we are having very docile executive, judiciary, legislature, police, army, population given we have all grown up in 'island of peace' era mindset

this islamic extremism -al shaitan, boko haram, ISIs.... if it will have achieved one positive thing it is putting populations and institutions in affected nations out of their shallow comfort zones ...

when people start asking 'if uhuru/odinga/ruto can't protect my kid what is his use?' ...that is a milestone for our personal and collective societal development

That is the real tragedy in all these....that merely asking questions is considered a milestone by Kenyan standards......The alshabab outfit has attacked us time and time again, from Westgate to mpeketoni, while we ask questions, no one has resigned, no police reforms have been undertaken, nothing.....yet we continue to ask questions. I think the time for asking questions is way past...its time to act. If the government will not protect us and our families, it is time we take matters into our own hands. People cannot continue dying while we are still asking questions. Now they have kids too scared to even stay in school, and parents too shaken to even let their kids stay on campus any more....when did this become okay. People should be putting pressure on our politician

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

DB

Nobody on this board supports violence. We are all for peace. It sad that when we ask questions of the government as is our right and point out mistakes and errors as we conscientious and patriotic citizens should, the knee-jerk reaction to to label us names and in some cases unleash killers of the many EJK squads.

For record, RV Pundit led the opposition to the deployment in Somalia. He and I joined by many people (some who have since crossed over to support what they originally opposed) tried to appeal to common sense. We could with examples show why Kenya as a neighbor of Somalia could not get involved in their civil war. We pointed out that history has shown such an involvement only succeeds in expanding the war in to areas it was not before starting with the intervening country.

Cambodia got involved in the Vietnam war by allowing both the Vietnamese and the Americans to use their country to launch attacks on each other. She ended up in the thick of it and remained in that war long after it ended in Vietnam.

I am afraid just like Pundit has pointed out, if we pull out today, we have to work hard to win the insurgency that will grow in the former NFD for the next two decades. Only hard work and honesty will help us win otherwise there is a real danger that the very Somalia we are helping to stabilize will work against us in that struggle.

Lastly, something I have been meaning to say: When did Kenya's policy of having a weak Somalia change? The independence of Kenya was guaranteed by the continued weakness of Somalia. We were content to help Ethiopia weaken Somalia. Ethiopia was doing a good job on her own for us. Why did we get in to it directly?

Omollo captures it very well. In a related development, I'm just hearing that KU students fled their hostels after a letter surfaced in the institution that Al Shabaab were planning a number on them. They refused to sleep in the hostels and could be found in places as far as K1. Hostels in places like Kahawa West were full to capacity. In an attempt to restore order, police have been poured into the university but the students are skeptical. In one stroke of terror, Al Shabaab have brought tourism in Kenya to nothing. Now university education is in shambles just like Omollo said.
I'm no advocate for violence but

I supported Operation Linda Nchi.  Because I thought it would result in a Somaliland kind of setup in Jubbaland under Madobe's Ras Kamboni dictatorship underwritten by Kenyan support. 

They got derailed along the way eventually joining AMISOM and becoming greedy.  I suspect a full withdrawal might result in a mutiny by the soldiers.  AMISOM money, charcoal sales, black budget are too sweet to be overridden by rational actions.

[GeeMail]

The word is impunity. Forgive me but I see a lot of parallels with the reformation. Most reformers were pacifists and could not countenance violence yet when confronted with papal armies some of them took up arms and I believe God helped them in many victories. Here is an entry from The Great Controversy:

The murderers of Huss did not stand quietly by and witness the triumph of his cause. The pope and the emperor united to crush out the movement, and the armies of Sigismund were hurled upon Bohemia.

116

But a deliverer was raised up. Ziska, who soon after the opening of the war became totally blind, yet who was one of the ablest generals of his age, was the leader of the Bohemians. Trusting in the help of God and the righteousness of their cause, that people withstood the mightiest armies that could be brought against them. Again and again the emperor, raising fresh armies, invaded Bohemia, only to be ignominiously repulsed. The Hussites were raised above the fear of death, and nothing could stand against them. A few years after the opening of the war, the brave Ziska died; but his place was filled by Procopius, who was an equally brave and skillful general, and in some respects a more able leader.

The enemies of the Bohemians, knowing that the blind warrior was dead, deemed the opportunity favorable for recovering all that they had lost. The pope now proclaimed a crusade against the Hussites, and again an immense force was precipitated upon Bohemia, but only to suffer terrible defeat. Another crusade was proclaimed. In all the papal countries of Europe, men, money, and munitions of war were raised. Multitudes flocked to the papal standard, assured that at last an end would be made of the Hussite heretics. Confident of victory, the vast force entered Bohemia. The people rallied to repel them. The two armies approached each other until only a river lay between them. "The crusaders were in greatly superior force, but instead of dashing across the stream, and closing in battle with the Hussites whom they had come so far to meet, they stood gazing in silence at those warriors."--Wylie, b. 3, ch. 17. Then suddenly a mysterious terror fell upon the host. Without striking a blow, that mighty force broke and scattered as if dispelled by an unseen power. Great numbers were slaughtered by the Hussite army, which pursued the fugitives, and an immense booty fell into the hands of the victors, so that the war, instead of impoverishing, enriched the Bohemians.

A few years later, under a new pope, still another crusade was set on foot. As before, men and means were drawn

117

from all the papal countries of Europe. Great were the inducements held out to those who should engage in this perilous enterprise. Full forgiveness of the most heinous crimes was ensured to every crusader. All who died in the war were promised a rich reward in heaven, and those who survived were to reap honor and riches on the field of battle. Again a vast army was collected, and, crossing the frontier they entered Bohemia. The Hussite forces fell back before them, thus drawing the invaders farther and farther into the country, and leading them to count the victory already won. At last the army of Procopius made a stand, and turning upon the foe, advanced to give them battle. The crusaders, now discovering their mistake, lay in their encampment awaiting the onset. As the sound of the approaching force was heard, even before the Hussites were in sight, a panic again fell upon the crusaders. Princes, generals, and common soldiers, casting away their armor, fled in all directions. In vain the papal legate, who was the leader of the invasion, endeavored to rally his terrified and disorganized forces. Despite his utmost endeavors, he himself was swept along in the tide of fugitives. The rout was complete, and again an immense booty fell into the hands of the victors.

Thus the second time a vast army, sent forth by the most powerful nations of Europe, a host of brave, warlike men, trained and equipped for battle, fled without a blow before the defenders of a small and hitherto feeble nation. Here was a manifestation of divine power. The invaders were smitten with a supernatural terror. He who overthrew the hosts of Pharaoh in the Red Sea, who put to flight the armies of Midian before Gideon and his three hundred, who in one night laid low the forces of the proud Assyrian, had again stretched out His hand to wither the power of the oppressor. "There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them." Psalm 53:5.

http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc6.html

In this endtime era, we are not to take up arms but to preach the word. A Christian nation like Kenya can do some great things for peace without taking arms. Like withdrawing from Somalia. When we take up arms and fight for peace, it is achieved (if at all) at great cost. In Kibaki's thinking, Kenya was fighting for peace but look at the awful cost!

[GeeMail]

Omollo I too didn't like the smell of the Somalia war. War only begets war. Kenya did not have to enter Somalia to stand for peace. The sooner we acknowledge that mistake and get out the better it will be for the country. A wise man changes his mind, so the good book says.

[Omollo]

DB

It has sadly taken a political and tribal direction. I and RV Pundit suffered near ostracization when we abandoned convention and opposed the war warning of dire consequences. Most of what Pundit warned about is happening as we speak.

I don't see how it is going to end. It is definitely too hot for Al Shabaab in Somalia and they are relocating to Kenya.

I need to ask you if you know that a number of Christians are supporting the war out of the desire for revenge against "Muslims".  You and I know that such calls are music to Al Shabaab's ears because they know KDF would seek revenge and visit retribution on Somali civilians - and by that scoring better than any recruiter's propaganda.

Omollo I too didn't like the smell of the Somalia war. War only begets war. Kenya did not have to enter Somalia to stand for peace. The sooner we acknowledge that mistake and get out the better it will be for the country. A wise man changes his mind, so the good book says.

[Omollo]

Termie

It was a mistake from the word go. I didn't have the beef on Madobe until Pundit exposed him. However note the following:
1. Kenya's policy was to ensure that Somalia remained a weak nation. She was blocked by Ethiopia in the North West and Kenya in the west. Kenya barred her entry in to the EAC while signing a Common defense and non aggression pact with her (Ethiopia). The two coordinated their preparedness against Somalia;
2. Somalis treated Kenya as their bank manager and with that kind of leverage, GoK could have kept Al Shabaab out of the Fatherland without provoking them to hostility. We knew they are banking in Kenya and have heavily invested in property. That would have been sufficient leverage to blackmail them in to keeping the war out of Kenya. That would mean limiting the use of Kenya as a springboard to launch drones and other black ops in Somalia. Djibouti is enough for such
3. Kenya could have traded with Somalia and Somalis and even encouraged the setting up of supermarkets in Mandera and Wajir. We could have made money from both sides (a sin but good politics)

Instead we chose war. See what it has done to tourism - the very reason we claimed to go there in the first place. Look at how our kids are sleeping in K1 among chang'aa addicts and highway robbers.

I supported Operation Linda Nchi.  Because I thought it would result in a Somaliland kind of setup in Jubbaland under Madobe's Ras Kamboni dictatorship underwritten by Kenyan support. 

They got derailed along the way eventually joining AMISOM and becoming greedy.  I suspect a full withdrawal might result in a mutiny by the soldiers.  AMISOM money, charcoal sales, black budget are too sweet to be overridden by rational actions.

[GeeMail]

Living in Nairobi is as close to hell as it gets. I'm informed today a message is circulating that an attack is planned on commuters during the evening jam. I wonder what Kidero and Sonko think of that. Today's alert reportedly comes from a security company and one of the foreign missions that gave a similar warning just before Garissa attacks, which alert the Men on the Hill promptly dismissed and waited for Garissa to happen. To make matters worse, police are said to be on a go-slow because of some pay issues. Which is surprising because people living in the big city wonder what's new with that. If you go to town regularly these days, you must put your house in order every time you leave, consciously.

[mya88]

Living in Nairobi is as close to hell as it gets. I'm informed today a message is circulating that an attack is planned on commuters during the evening jam. I wonder what Kidero and Sonko think of that. Today's alert reportedly comes from a security company and one of the foreign missions that gave a similar warning just before Garissa attacks, which alert the Men on the Hill promptly dismissed and waited for Garissa to happen. To make matters worse, police are said to be on a go-slow because of some pay issues. Which is surprising because people living in the big city wonder what's new with that. If you go to town regularly these days, you must put your house in order every time you leave, consciously.

DB stay safe. This is why I think the citizens need to start playing defense with these savages......take care of their own security since those we entrust with out safety do not care

[Omollo]

Pole sana. I remember my days working in Afghanistan.

Living in Nairobi is as close to hell as it gets. I'm informed today a message is circulating that an attack is planned on commuters during the evening jam. I wonder what Kidero and Sonko think of that. Today's alert reportedly comes from a security company and one of the foreign missions that gave a similar warning just before Garissa attacks, which alert the Men on the Hill promptly dismissed and waited for Garissa to happen. To make matters worse, police are said to be on a go-slow because of some pay issues. Which is surprising because people living in the big city wonder what's new with that. If you go to town regularly these days, you must put your house in order every time you leave, consciously.

[RV Pundit]

Omollo, I have been reading "A Thousand Hills" documenting Kagame march from Uganda to Rwanda and I now more than ever realize the futulity of our war to liberate Somalia. Without the support of somalis..from NEP to Mogadishu..we are wasting money and time...and lives.

[vooke]

It is rather obvious that Kenia will be hit again and again. Western capitals too. Nobody is deluding themselves that alqaeda is long dead. But of course we are at a higher risk.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/26/opinions/flynn-livingston-smith-isis-threat/index.html

Fear and anxiety is all but inevitable. They will strike and take down tens of lives..its all about WHEN not IF

[Omollo]

A Civil War has its actors. They change alliances at will and faster than a whore changes panties. It does not matter whether you claim to be "neutral" or partisan, the act of joining it earns you enemies, since any new entrant causes an imbalance to the detriment and gain of certain parties.

When the US entered the fray, Aideed suffered losses as he had to surrender his advantages to the new entrants. The US therefore found herself with a ready-made enemy even if she pretended not to know (or probably was really unaware of). Kenya walked in to a trap. As she joined on the part of the faction in Mogadishu that controlled a very small area, any expansion of that entity means a loss to Al Shabaab.

To become a peace keeper, there has to be peace to keep. That peace is often denoted by a peace agreement to which every MAJOR actor is signed to. The parties must all agree on a roadmap leading to peace. A timetable for disarmament and the demobilization of the existing forces is a must. It costs a lot to undertake disarmament and to demobilize troops. Those youthful soldiers need to be integrated in a national military and an even larger number sent to school, colleges and absorbed in to industry and commerce. That is why one cannot undertake such an enterprise without money. AMISOM is underfunded and founded on the wrong premises. It seeks to make peace and actively makes war against factions not aligned to the one in Mogadishu.

I have met a number of the so called MPs. They are found all over the world and get paid and bribed to elect a "President" and "Prime Minister. They do not believe in the so called government in Somalia. As far as they are concerned it is AMISOM that is the government and the day it gives up is the day Mogadishu is overrun.

The solution would have been to let them fight and the winner tyrannizes over the others. Only later can they make peace - Lebanon style.

Omollo, I have been reading "A Thousand Hills" documenting Kagame march from Uganda to Rwanda and I now more than ever realize the futulity of our war to liberate Somalia. Without the support of somalis..from NEP to Mogadishu..we are wasting money and time...and lives.