Author Topic: Obama To Visit Kenya In July  (Read 86976 times)

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« on: March 30, 2015, 04:53:41 PM »

First sitting US President to visit that part of Africa.
Quote from: Susan Rice
President Obama will help #StarttheSpark for entrepreneurs in Africa & globally when he travels to #GES2015 in Nairobi this July.

582539810197401600[/tweet]][/url]
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

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Offline machoman

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2015, 06:26:36 PM »
Is that why some things are happening?

Offline mya88

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2015, 10:56:12 PM »
Is that why some things are happening?
Is that why ouru is pretending to fight graft now?
"We must be the change we wish to see" - Mahatma Ghandi

Offline vooke

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 09:55:18 AM »
Why do I get this feeling that he will skip the visit over some undisclosed heightened risk? If I was Ouruto, I'd downplay it till he shows up

PS: I don't for a second think that Negroes-Al shabaab can plot a serious and intelligent attack against him
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline gout

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 09:56:05 AM »
seems uhuru never was informed till the news started circulating online and thus his handlers summoned Godec for hurried presser to save face  .... I thought Obama would do better to respect Africans but seems the democrat blood runs deep ...... though we can understand his dilemma but he should have done better for Africa-US relations
I underestimated the heartbreaks visited by hasla revolution

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 04:11:28 PM »
Why do I get this feeling that he will skip the visit over some undisclosed heightened risk? If I was Ouruto, I'd downplay it till he shows up

PS: I don't for a second think that Negroes-Al shabaab can plot a serious and intelligent attack against him
From what I have heard, it's not a long duration trip.  So the man will probably just shut down Nairobi for a few hours and then leave.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 04:14:13 PM »
seems uhuru never was informed till the news started circulating online and thus his handlers summoned Godec for hurried presser to save face  .... I thought Obama would do better to respect Africans but seems the democrat blood runs deep ...... though we can understand his dilemma but he should have done better for Africa-US relations
I think Obama figured he had to visit Kenya, no matter what.  He would have hoped for a better situation, but his connection to it meant that he had to be at least that US President that set foot in Kenya.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 10:16:29 AM »
Obama is a waste of time and space as far as Kenya and Africa is concerned. The man is huge failure as far as raising the issues of endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent..in a world that surely can do much much more to help alleviate the suffering here.

George Bush compassion for Africa was real...he just made a blunder of invading Iraq!

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2015, 03:02:28 PM »
Obama is a waste of time and space as far as Kenya and Africa is concerned. The man is huge failure as far as raising the issues of endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent..in a world that surely can do much much more to help alleviate the suffering here.

George Bush compassion for Africa was real...he just made a blunder of invading Iraq!

Whether your views on Obama have any legitimate basis or not is a  matter that may be debated; and in your case things usually get very tricky if a request is made for an objective basis.   But we need not dwell on that one.

What must be pointed out is that the "endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent" are fundamentally not Obama's (or anyone else's problem).    Africans really must give up this idea that they are somebody else's responsibility and work to improve their lot.

Kenyans are dying like flies from just a lack of toilets, but look at all the money that is getting eaten.   Sudan has oil but is going down in flames because of two boneheads.    ...   Look around: all over Africa, the African does not seem to be doing a great deal for himself.   That is what needs to change.
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Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 03:58:05 PM »
Obama is a waste of time and space as far as Kenya and Africa is concerned. The man is huge failure as far as raising the issues of endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent..in a world that surely can do much much more to help alleviate the suffering here.

George Bush compassion for Africa was real...he just made a blunder of invading Iraq!

Whether your views on Obama have any legitimate basis or not is a  matter that may be debated; and in your case things usually get very tricky if a request is made for an objective basis.   But we need not dwell on that one.

What must be pointed out is that the "endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent" are fundamentally not Obama's (or anyone else's problem).    Africans really must give up this idea that they are somebody else's responsibility and work to improve their lot.

Kenyans are dying like flies from just a lack of toilets, but look at all the money that is getting eaten.  (You yourself write on another thread that "Corruption is now a serious cancer that is killing us.")   Sudan has oil but is going down in flames because of two boneheads.    ...   Look around: all over Africa, the African does not seem to be doing a great deal for himself, endlessly engaging in self-destruction while crying that outsiders are not helping improve things.   That is what needs to change.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline vooke

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 04:57:48 PM »
This is one thing I agree with you.
Negro MUST bear his own cross. Osama is not Joseph of Arimathea

What must be pointed out is that the "endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent" are fundamentally not Obama's (or anyone else's problem).    Africans really must give up this idea that they are somebody else's responsibility and work to improve their lot.

Kenyans are dying like flies from just a lack of toilets, but look at all the money that is getting eaten.  (You yourself write on another thread that "Corruption is now a serious cancer that is killing us.")   Sudan has oil but is going down in flames because of two boneheads.    ...   Look around: all over Africa, the African does not seem to be doing a great deal for himself, endlessly engaging in self-destruction while crying that outsiders are not helping improve things.   That is what needs to change.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 05:59:57 PM »
Pundit is right if he means Obama cares less about Africans' immediate well-being than Bush; maybe even long term.  Yet if the African is to change his lot in life, he must be weaned off that notion of an altruistic rescuer from outside.  Obama job is to look out for number 1; American corporations.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2015, 06:41:17 PM »
Pundit is right if he means Obama cares less about Africans' immediate well-being than Bush; maybe even long term.  Yet if the African is to change his lot in life, he must be weaned off that notion of an altruistic rescuer from outside.  Obama job is to look out for number 1; American corporations.

Yes.   Americans elected Obama to work for them, and so they have a right to complain if Obama shows them less "compassion". Africans have no such right, especially when they themselves show very little care for each other.  In any case, Kenyans, in particular, have little reason to complain: under Obama, Kenya leapt into the Top-10 of US aid recipients

When it comes to a visit such as this one, it would be nice to hear about Kenyans and Africans trying to figure out how they can persuade Obama and the USA to work with them in a way that will improve their lot.   It is bizarre to hold the view that such a visit is useless because Obama will not be bringing "compassion", i.e. handing over a lot of freebies.  The onus is on Africans to make the most of such visits, not for Obama to rack his brains on how to  deal with the continent's "endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent".
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 09:24:18 AM »
You make shockingly ignorant statements. First everyone need help at some point of time. Africa need help in many areas including in fighting corruption, in improving it's democratic systems, in building better institutions and name any problem you keep lamenting about...I mean with Bush snr the democracy in Africa now..won't even exist.

Without help Vooke would a chokora somewhere..and MoonKi will not be abroad acting like he is now a white man....detached from his suffering folks...he would be like most typical kenyans layabouts wasting away in cheap brew while battling Malaria or HIV.

There is no doubt that Obama is more than US president. He is the leader of global superpower (let ignore the rise of counter-balancing China for now) with incredible power to help struggling and poor victims of poverty, poor governance and let just say Africans, Kenyans and his Siaya people.

Isn't it why Obama is coming to Kenya?

Obama represent an unique president  with African roots who understands the poverty and ills the afflict our country more than any other world leader..and yet he is done far less than any US president i can think of. Actually he has spend his 8yr trying to ran away from his embarrassing roots...trying to say the LEAST possible about Africa problems esp of Sub-Saharan Africa.

Bush Jrn his immediate predecessor definitely  did more and made Africa poverty (and ills) part of global agenda. Under Obama...Africa poverty that should bother a world so RICH and so prosperous is NON ISSUE. It just about ISREAL,MIDDLE EAST and RUSSIA. That is Obama foreign policy. Africa is for the first time in recent years is OUT. Out of debate. Out of discuscion.

 Even a world that is facing economic recession..should still have the shocking incredible SUB SAHARAN Africa poverty as NO 1 or 2 ISSUE way before Nuclear War or some little desert Isreal. Obama should have made this clear to Americans, Europeans and everyone in any summit that Africa poverty remain a huge blight in the conscience of humanity...that Africans are still dying in their millions from easily preventable disease..from starvation..more people than a Nuclear bomb will kill.

Obama ought to have done more. Way more. Even in Kogelo he has DONE ZERO. He has instead spent his years in global prominence running away from Africa...embarrassed it would seem from his roots.

What has Obama done for Africa...NOTHING except a tour of lectures way back..a feeble attempt to launch 50BUSD energy thing...and now he is coming to launch a project of doubtful impact...some youth conference thing.

The great thing..Africa is turning the corner..Africa is rising...despite Obama snubs..and thanks to CHINA. All indicators are starting to look sustainably good...this may sound strange to ignorant people who shouts everytime we have news of starving or dying people..unaware that African now has less starvation, less diseases, more democratic gov, more peace and generally standards of living are improving..thanks in part of course to Bush Snr, Bush Jrn and Clinton...and China...and least of all OBAMA.

And Obama find himself an unwanted guest inviting himself to Nairobi...in panick of what his legacy will look like when he retires in 2yrs..not as great Mandela or Clinton or even Bush...but as NONDESCRIPT PRESIDENT of US...as far as Africa are concerned.

If I was Uhuru..i would snub him and send ICC indicted William Ruto to receive and take him around.

Pundit is right if he means Obama cares less about Africans' immediate well-being than Bush; maybe even long term.  Yet if the African is to change his lot in life, he must be weaned off that notion of an altruistic rescuer from outside.  Obama job is to look out for number 1; American corporations.

Yes.   Americans elected Obama to work for them, and so they have a right to complain if Obama shows them less "compassion". Africans have no such right, especially when they themselves show very little care for each other.  In any case, Kenyans, in particular, have little reason to complain: under Obama, Kenya leapt into the Top-10 of US aid recipients

When it comes to a visit such as this one, it would be nice to hear about Kenyans and Africans trying to figure out how they can persuade Obama and the USA to work with them in a way that will improve their lot.   It is bizarre to hold the view that such a visit is useless because Obama will not be bringing "compassion", i.e. handing over a lot of freebies.  The onus is on Africans to make the most of such visits, not for Obama to rack his brains on how to  deal with the continent's "endemic poverty and diseases afflicting the continent".

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 05:17:31 PM »
Pundit,

I don't think MOON Ki is questioning that people need help.  Africa definitely needs help in many areas.

But you have to remember that for the better part of 50 years, they had a blank check, no questions asked, courtesy of the cold war. 

What did they produce?  Mobutu, Moi, Mengistu etc.  Somalia had more missiles than grains of rice.  Why should Obama or any other outsider feel responsible for that?
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 06:28:56 PM »
You make shockingly ignorant statements. First everyone need help at some point of time. Africa need help in many areas including in fighting corruption, in improving it's democratic systems, in building better institutions and name any problem you keep lamenting about

First, try to avoid the type unhelpful emotional language that adds nothing to the discussion; instead, try constructing solid, objective arguments.  Also note that merely stating that I am ignorant does not make it a fact.

Second, the main issue is not whether or not Africans need help; it is whether they are also prepared to help themselves.   Until they are, no amount of external help will work in the long term.   You mention corruption, for example.  In say, Kenya, what can the rest of the world do about corruption as long as the Kenyan leadership is so devoted to eating?  What, for example, would you like Obama to do about that?

Quote
Without help Vooke would a chokora somewhere..and MoonKi will not be abroad acting like he is now a white man....detached from his suffering folks...he would be like most typical kenyans layabouts wasting away in cheap brew while battling Malaria or HIV.

Again, unhelpful emotion.   Pointing out that places like Kenya (and the rest of Africa) could do much better is  just:

(a) simply noting the obvious fact that Kenya (and Africa) is mostly run down by Kenyans (and Africans); and

(b) not "behaving like a white man", whatever that means; on the contrary, it is based on the observation that white man, Asian man, etc.  is not endowed with superhuman qualities, and there is no reason why Mwafrika too cannot lift himself up.

Wherever I am and whatever I am doing, please don't make any assumptions about some "help" that you think I got.   And as to whether I would otherwise be "wasting away in cheap brew while battling Malaria or HIV", the simple fact is that I am not.  Of course, you are free to dwell on the thought if it gives you some comfort.

Quote
There is no doubt that Obama is more than US president. He is the leader of global superpower (let ignore the rise of counter-balancing China for now) with incredible power to help struggling and poor victims of poverty, poor governance and let just say Africans, Kenyans and his Siaya people.

Again, I will point you to all the eating scandals in Kenya, the wastage of money, the misplaced priorities, the bad governance, etc.   What exactly would you like Obama to do about that?  Please come up with some concrete idea, rather than simply saying that he can do more, more, more.   

A few years ago, the USAID rep while ( at budget time) testifying before the USA Congress stated that aid to Kenya (under Obama) was rising so fast they had not had the time to hire enough people quickly enough to manage the "Kenyan file".    Right now, Kenya is on the way to being one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Power-Africa thing.   Kenya has been admitted into Obama's Feed The Future Programme.    There is even a Parliamentary Strengthening Program    that is supposed to help the elected eaters learn about governance.   And so on.

What more would you like, and why?

Quote
Obama should have made this clear to Americans, Europeans and everyone in any summit that Africa poverty remain a huge blight in the conscience of humanity...that Africans are still dying in their millions from easily preventable disease..from starvation..

And the USA, even under Obama,  has been keeping many alive with yellow maize for years and years, but that is not a permanent solution.  Similarly, the USA, even under Obama, has been spending huge sums on African health.  But that too is not a permanent solution.  What is needed is for Africans to get serious about their food security, basic health, and so on.     That is what I have been urging.   

Let us, again, take Kenya, as an example.   We have heard about huge plans for irrigation, but nothing has come of them while money continues to be wasted elsewhere.    Where is the focus on clean water, toilets, and so forth?

What more is it exactly that you would like the USA and the rest of the world to do about starvation and easily preventable diseases in Africa anyway?   More importantly, it is good that the rest of the world cares to some extent, but, really, why should they when African "leaders" themselves don't see those as priorities.   

What's more, I will note that when (on the China thread) I noted how the USA has been helping in the areas of health, food, and so on, you cheerfully dismissed it because there was "nothing to see as a result" and that China's help with infrastructure counts for much more.   And now here you are!

Now that you appear to have finally seen some sense, I suggest that you go back and re-read what I wrote about real human development.

By the way, why should Africa be a "huge blight in the conscience of humanity"?  As far as I can tell it is mostly Africans who are finishing Africans.

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Obama ought to have done more.

Why is that?  And, again, what exactly would you have him do?  Please don't just say "more"!   

Quote
The great thing..Africa is turning the corner..Africa is rising...despite Obama snubs..and thanks to CHINA. All indicators are starting to look sustainably good...this may sound strange to ignorant people who shouts everytime we have news of starving or dying people..unaware that African now has less starvation, less diseases, more democratic gov, more peace and generally standards of living are improving..thanks in part of course to Bush Snr, Bush Jrn and Clinton...and China...

He, he, he ... I really like this one!   I never though the day would come!

Back on one of your "China-Will-Save-Africa", you maintained that US aid to Africa has had no effect, that it's been eaten by NGOS, and so on and so forth.   And here you are, thanking Bush Snr, Bush Jrn and Clinton for "less starvation, less diseases, more democratic gov, more peace and generally standards of living"!

As for the "good indicators" from Kung Fu, what exactly are they?   Can China help Africa if Africans will not help Africa?     For today's case study, let us take Angola, which:

(a) Has plenty of natural resources that the Chinese want and are getting.

(b) Is China's 2nd largest trading partner in Africa.  Something resembling real two-way trade.

(c) Has had the Chinese busy building all sorts of infrastructure.  Serious infrastructure.

So are there plenty of "good indicators" there for most of Angola's population?   You can get a partial answer by reading this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32067602

Please read it carefully.  It will help you understand what I mean when I say that only Africans will save Africa.  So what I would like you to do: 

(a) Stop indulging in fantasies that the rest of the world should look after Africa, this or that person or country should do more for Africa, Africa should be on the conscience (over-milked already), etc.   Give up this stuff about "China will save us but Obama is a bad man for not doing more".

(b) Start to ask what Africans (especially their "leaders") can do and are doing for Africa and Africans. Let's hear what African "leaders" are doing about health, food security, etc.     In Kenya, for example, let's read good news about better health care for the children, more clean water, better food security ... instead of the endless corruption scandals.

Africa has the land to grow food.  Africa has whatever natural resources are required.   Africa has a youthful energetic population that can work.    What is lacking is the will and clear thinking in its "leadership".    What is there but needs to be discarded is this perpetual saidia, saidia, saidia mentality toward the rest of the world

(For the latter, let's start with you and your sort: believe me, it is not that mzungu or kung fu has better witchdoctors; even you can do whatever he has done or is capable of doing.)
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2015, 07:36:29 PM »
That is clever play of words that exactly mean Africa never needed help. Africa need help. What sort of help. Those helping Africa have to keep learning on what works and what doesn't work. We cannot condemn people just because of Moi or Mobutu. The quality of Africa leadership is poor and that is EXPECTED. It is not strange that we have really poor grade leadership right thro the systems. It is part of the problem that requires fixing.

The US and other donors have to keep learning what works and what doesn't. Evidence shows the AID industry has failed.But doesn't mean you give up. For example,has US tried something else...like paying an extra premium for any raw material from Africa...aware it's coming from a place where poverty levels are shockingly unacceptable in this rich planet? US for many years has been Africa biggest raw material importer..and yet the continue to EXPLOIT Africa through really cheap and doggy contracts. Has Obama made this an issue to US companies? How about corruption emanating from American companies operating in Africa?

How about building infrastructure using China model where it very hard for corrupt kenyan gov to siphon off all the funds..and at least deliver some key roads, water projects, sewage systems,railway lines??????????? Hasn't China managed to deliver despite and in spite of graft!

Obama is a brilliant guy with first experience some of world's worst form of poverty having spent time in Siaya. He should and can do more.

Obama instead has done nothing...except if we go by Moonki quietly improve on Kenya's funding of Bush Jnr Key initiative for Africa...such as global fund for Malaria, HIV and TB.

Compared to what previous great president have done..like ending colonialism, slavery, civil rights for blacks, ending dictatorship in Africa and creating institutions like WB, US peace corps, name them...Obama has done nothing.

Give me George Bush Jnr or Clinton any time any day...Obama Jnr the joker doesn't deserve any welcome when he brings his uninvited self to Nairobi.

Uhuru can make Africa really proud by snubbing him.

Pundit,

I don't think MOON Ki is questioning that people need help.  Africa definitely needs help in many areas.

But you have to remember that for the better part of 50 years, they had a blank check, no questions asked, courtesy of the cold war. 

What did they produce?  Mobutu, Moi, Mengistu etc.  Somalia had more missiles than grains of rice.  Why should Obama or any other outsider feel responsible for that?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2015, 07:43:26 PM »
In your typical attempt to nitpick you've missed my point. You admit Obama has done nothing new except perhaps favour kenya by increasing Bush Jnr  initiative fundings under USAID..that has gone into projects with doubtful impact..like the upcoming Youth in Leadership conference..like we needed more talk shops. Perhaps Obama with Africa roots would have created a brand new US AFRICA FUND or AID AGENCY? Chinese in the same period have rolled out several Africa funds.

How much would it have cost Obama to get US to fund piped water for everyone Nyanza? Spare change.

Obama despite his African heritage has done nothing new or inspiring for Africans..in fact he has done less or nothing.

Meanwhile China has been rolling out super highways, high speed rails,mega dams and paying  a premium for Africa raw materilas from Angola, to Nigeria, to Sudan, to Ethiopia, to Zambia, to Kenya and name them.

You make shockingly ignorant statements. First everyone need help at some point of time. Africa need help in many areas including in fighting corruption, in improving it's democratic systems, in building better institutions and name any problem you keep lamenting about

First, try to avoid the type unhelpful emotional language that adds nothing to the discussion; instead, try constructing solid, objective arguments.  Also note that merely stating that I am ignorant does not make it a fact.

Second, the main issue is not whether or not Africans need help; it is whether they are also prepared to help themselves.   Until they are, no amount of external help will work in the long term.   You mention corruption, for example.  In say, Kenya, what can the rest of the world do about corruption as long as the Kenyan leadership is so devoted to eating?  What, for example, would you like Obama to do about that?

Quote
Without help Vooke would a chokora somewhere..and MoonKi will not be abroad acting like he is now a white man....detached from his suffering folks...he would be like most typical kenyans layabouts wasting away in cheap brew while battling Malaria or HIV.

Again, unhelpful emotion.   Pointing out that places like Kenya (and the rest of Africa) could do much better is  just:

(a) simply noting the obvious fact that Kenya (and Africa) is mostly run down by Kenyans (and Africans); and

(b) not "behaving like a white man", whatever that means; on the contrary, it is based on the observation that white man, Asian man, etc.  is not endowed with superhuman qualities, and there is no reason why Mwafrika too cannot lift himself up.

Wherever I am and whatever I am doing, please don't make any assumptions about some "help" that you think I got.   And as to whether I would otherwise be "wasting away in cheap brew while battling Malaria or HIV", the simple fact is that I am not.  Of course, you are free to dwell on the thought if it gives you some comfort.

Quote
There is no doubt that Obama is more than US president. He is the leader of global superpower (let ignore the rise of counter-balancing China for now) with incredible power to help struggling and poor victims of poverty, poor governance and let just say Africans, Kenyans and his Siaya people.

Again, I will point you to all the eating scandals in Kenya, the wastage of money, the misplaced priorities, the bad governance, etc.   What exactly would you like Obama to do about that?  Please come up with some concrete idea, rather than simply saying that he can do more, more, more.   

A few years ago, the USAID rep while ( at budget time) testifying before the USA Congress stated that aid to Kenya (under Obama) was rising so fast they had not had the time to hire enough people quickly enough to manage the "Kenyan file".    Right now, Kenya is on the way to being one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Power-Africa thing.   Kenya has been admitted into Obama's Feed The Future Programme.    There is even a Parliamentary Strengthening Program    that is supposed to help the elected eaters learn about governance.   And so on.

What more would you like, and why?

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Obama should have made this clear to Americans, Europeans and everyone in any summit that Africa poverty remain a huge blight in the conscience of humanity...that Africans are still dying in their millions from easily preventable disease..from starvation..

And the USA, even under Obama,  has been keeping many alive with yellow maize for years and years, but that is not a permanent solution.  Similarly, the USA, even under Obama, has been spending huge sums on African health.  But that too is not a permanent solution.  What is needed is for Africans to get serious about their food security, basic health, and so on.     That is what I have been urging.   

Let us, again, take Kenya, as an example.   We have heard about huge plans for irrigation, but nothing has come of them while money continues to be wasted elsewhere.    Where is the focus on clean water, toilets, and so forth?

What more is it exactly that you would like the USA and the rest of the world to do about starvation and easily preventable diseases in Africa anyway?   More importantly, it is good that the rest of the world cares to some extent, but, really, why should they when African "leaders" themselves don't see those as priorities.   

What's more, I will note that when (on the China thread) I noted how the USA has been helping in the areas of health, food, and so on, you cheerfully dismissed it because there was "nothing to see as a result" and that China's help with infrastructure counts for much more.   And now here you are!

Now that you appear to have finally seen some sense, I suggest that you go back and re-read what I wrote about real human development.

By the way, why should Africa be a "huge blight in the conscience of humanity"?  As far as I can tell it is mostly Africans who are finishing Africans.

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Obama ought to have done more.

Why is that?  And, again, what exactly would you have him do?  Please don't just say "more"!   

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The great thing..Africa is turning the corner..Africa is rising...despite Obama snubs..and thanks to CHINA. All indicators are starting to look sustainably good...this may sound strange to ignorant people who shouts everytime we have news of starving or dying people..unaware that African now has less starvation, less diseases, more democratic gov, more peace and generally standards of living are improving..thanks in part of course to Bush Snr, Bush Jrn and Clinton...and China...

He, he, he ... I really like this one!   I never though the day would come!

Back on one of your "China-Will-Save-Africa", you maintained that US aid to Africa has had no effect, that it's been eaten by NGOS, and so on and so forth.   And here you are, thanking Bush Snr, Bush Jrn and Clinton for "less starvation, less diseases, more democratic gov, more peace and generally standards of living"!

As for the "good indicators" from Kung Fu, what exactly are they?   Can China help Africa if Africans will not help Africa?     For today's case study, let us take Angola, which:

(a) Has plenty of natural resources that the Chinese want and are getting.

(b) Is China's 2nd largest trading partner in Africa.  Something resembling real two-way trade.

(c) Has had the Chinese busy building all sorts of infrastructure.  Serious infrastructure.

So are there plenty of "good indicators" there for most of Angola's population?   You can get a partial answer by reading this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32067602

Please read it carefully.  It will help you understand what I mean when I say that only Africans will save Africa.  So what I would like you to do: 

(a) Stop indulging in fantasies that the rest of the world should look after Africa, this or that person or country should do more for Africa, Africa should be on the conscience (over-milked already), etc.   Give up this stuff about "China will save us but Obama is a bad man for not doing more".

(b) Start to ask what Africans (especially their "leaders") can do and are doing for Africa and Africans. Let's hear what African "leaders" are doing about health, food security, etc.     In Kenya, for example, let's read good news about better health care for the children, more clean water, better food security ... instead of the endless corruption scandals.

Africa has the land to grow food.  Africa has whatever natural resources are required.   Africa has a youthful energetic population that can work.    What is lacking is the will and clear thinking in its "leadership".    What is there but needs to be discarded is this perpetual saidia, saidia, saidia mentality toward the rest of the world

(For the latter, let's start with you and your sort: believe me, it is not that mzungu or kung fu has better witchdoctors; even you can do whatever he has done or is capable of doing.)


Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2015, 08:29:43 PM »
That is clever play of words that exactly mean Africa never needed help. Africa need help. What sort of help. Those helping Africa have to keep learning on what works and what doesn't work. We cannot condemn people just because of Moi or Mobutu. The quality of Africa leadership is poor and that is EXPECTED. It is not strange that we have really poor grade leadership right thro the systems. It is part of the problem that requires fixing.

(I am not answering for Terminator.)

The point I have been trying to get through to you is that no amount of "help" will really help in the long run, unless some things change, for the following reason:

You agree that Africa has poor leadership, and that it requires fixing.   Now, whose problem is it to do the fixing?   And if the fixing is not done, what future does Africa really have?

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The US and other donors have to keep learning what works and what doesn't.

And are the aid recipients supposed to also do any learning?  Are they? If so, what have they learned, and what are the results?

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US for many years has been Africa biggest raw material importer..and yet the continue to EXPLOIT Africa for really cheap and doggy contracts.

He, he, he .... And your beloved Kung Fu is doing what?  (By the way, what is a "doggy contract"?)  Africa is about to learn a new lesson in what exploitation really means.



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Has Obama made this an issue to US companies?

Obama?   The USA is not like Africa, where the Big Man insists on doing everything.  So, I would suggest that you first do your homework on US anti-corruption laws and then ask questions in that regard.   If you need help, let me know, but I want to encourage you to be independent.

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How about corruption emanating from American companies operating in Africa?

See the above.   If you have in mind some specific examples of corruption by American companies in Africa, then let's discuss them; the vague statements don't help.

And I hope that, given that you live in Kenya, you do realize that most corruption in Kenya is "internally driven".  Kenya's "leadership" prefers to eat, and there's nothing to be done about that until they change.

Of course, the other interesting question is whether it would make any difference, given the deep eating cultures in Africa.  For example:

(a) The UK has indicated that they consider Okemo a thoroughly corrupt fellow and would like to see him over there to be dealt with.   In Kenya?   He just got offered a nice, cushy job!

(b) The UK has dealt with Chicken-Gate.   And Kenya?

In life, it is always easier (and less pain to try) to control oneself than to work on others, and In a "corrupt exchange", there are two parties.  Look at Kenya: As long as eating is a way of life, from the very top to the very bottom, nothing done by external parties will ever have a real impact.   And that's because the eating is largely local.   (That is another part of my "only Africans will save Africans".)

Countries like Singapore, South Korea, etc. have managed to largely tame corruption by tackling head-on, locally, and dealing harshly with their citizens who went astray.   What are similar examples in Africa?
 
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How about building infrastructure using China model where it very hard for corrupt kenyan gov to siphon off all the funds..

First, I will quickly note that there have been quite a few questions about the SGR tenders.  In fact, I believe they are included in the Uhuru's "step-aside" EACC report.

Second, I go back to taking responsibility for oneself.   Why should it be the Chinese who make sure that Africans aren't corrupt?   Why can't Africans work on that for themselves?

Kenya would be far better off it its leadership worked on dealing with corruption instead of relying on others to restrain what you so aptly describe as "corrupt kenyan gov" whose priority is to "siphon off all the funds".  Personal responsibility!   Otherwise, we should stop yelling about "sovereign and independent" and submit to voluntary re-colonization.   (We can always call it the more acceptable "outsourcing of national government".)

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Obama is a brilliant guy with first experience of worst form of poverty having spent time in Siaya. He should and can do more.

Again, you fail to explain why he should.   You need to get beyond the (damaging) way of African thinking: "the president is from our area, so we expect a lot of undeserved goodies".   That is part of what fuels the mindless "our people" culture in Africa.  For the nation, there is a national leader; at the local level, there are local leaders.
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Obama To Visit Kenya In July
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2015, 08:41:31 PM »
MoonKi,
Once you will be able to distinguish btw your bile against Africa political leadership and the poor victims of the same suffering in great poverty and misery..majority lacking the ability to make rational political decision..then we can have a debate.

All i can hear are your tirade against Africa leadership (anyone can fill up pages with that)...with very little in terms of solutions to help the poor in these countries..with real tangible sustainable development models.
 
This is not the first time we have heard an Africa like situation...nothing novel here.

Obama could have really helped if he really needed to...either thro or bypassing Africa countries. Will Siaya refuse 100M USD Obama grant to build a university that will educate 20,000 graduates annually (rather than spending the same money in some opaque youth leadership nonsense)...Will Siaya people refuse pipe water to every household from US goverment? Will Siaya people refuses tarmac road from Obama? Will Siaya people refuses Obama assistance to build small time factories in Siaya? Will Siaya people refuse Obama help to modernize their schools?

Well perhaps Obama can learn from Africa leaders who despite stealing get elected...they deliver some form of  Maendeleo that people want...some school there..an hospital here...a tarmac road there...

Those are the things that MATTER in SIAYA, in CHINA and in the US. Not some opaque AID given to some opaque NGOs delivering some Opaque services.