Painful childbirth is the result of eating grains @bitmask

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

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Before agriculture, childbirth was much easier, quicker, and less painful. The diets of hunter-gatherers meant their women had greater pelvic depths.  Phytates from a diet too high in grains prevents minerals from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Pelvic inlet depth declined tremendously with adoption of agriculture. Pelvic inlet depth is a measure of the size of the pelvic canal through which a baby would pass during birth.

Birth is easy among Inuits, expecting mothers would deliver at night and not even bother to awaken their husbands they would just introduce the new baby in the morning.

The fall of humanity started once we settled down to plant grains and cereals.

The airways of modern human beings are narrow compared to our ancient ancestors. It contributes to snoring, sleep apnea, poor sleep, mouth breathing and so many other pathologies.

Modern humans are seriously deformed.

[KenyanPlato]

You are crazy with this grain theory of yours

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You are crazy with this grain theory of yours

[gout]

Interesting perspective. I would also say the domestication of man by the grains meant lazy sedentary lifestyle thus less physical activity. This must also have had an effect on the pelvic.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Before agriculture, childbirth was much easier, quicker, and less painful. The diets of hunter-gatherers meant their women had greater pelvic depths.  Phytates from a diet too high in grains prevents minerals from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Pelvic inlet depth declined tremendously with adoption of agriculture. Pelvic inlet depth is a measure of the size of the pelvic canal through which a baby would pass during birth.

Birth is easy among Inuits, expecting mothers would deliver at night and not even bother to awaken their husbands they would just introduce the new baby in the morning.

The fall of humanity started once we settled down to plant grains and cereals.

The airways of modern human beings are narrow compared to our ancient ancestors. It contributes to snoring, sleep apnea, poor sleep, mouth breathing and so many other pathologies.

Modern humans are seriously deformed.

I know a Gusii woman who gave birth in the morning and was back at work that afternoon .  This is hardly scientific evidence that Kisii have an easier delivering children.  Do you have any supporting citation?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Before agriculture, childbirth was much easier, quicker, and less painful. The diets of hunter-gatherers meant their women had greater pelvic depths.  Phytates from a diet too high in grains prevents minerals from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Pelvic inlet depth declined tremendously with adoption of agriculture. Pelvic inlet depth is a measure of the size of the pelvic canal through which a baby would pass during birth.

Birth is easy among Inuits, expecting mothers would deliver at night and not even bother to awaken their husbands they would just introduce the new baby in the morning.

The fall of humanity started once we settled down to plant grains and cereals.

The airways of modern human beings are narrow compared to our ancient ancestors. It contributes to snoring, sleep apnea, poor sleep, mouth breathing and so many other pathologies.

Modern humans are seriously deformed.

I don't see it that way.  Evolution is about trade-offs that work for the species, not perfection.  For homo-sapiens, natural selection favored those with bigger brains over those who have wider airways and what have you.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Before agriculture, childbirth was much easier, quicker, and less painful. The diets of hunter-gatherers meant their women had greater pelvic depths.  Phytates from a diet too high in grains prevents minerals from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Pelvic inlet depth declined tremendously with adoption of agriculture. Pelvic inlet depth is a measure of the size of the pelvic canal through which a baby would pass during birth.

Birth is easy among Inuits, expecting mothers would deliver at night and not even bother to awaken their husbands they would just introduce the new baby in the morning.

The fall of humanity started once we settled down to plant grains and cereals.

The airways of modern human beings are narrow compared to our ancient ancestors. It contributes to snoring, sleep apnea, poor sleep, mouth breathing and so many other pathologies.

Modern humans are seriously deformed.

I know a Gusii woman who gave birth in the morning and was back at work that afternoon .  This is hardly scientific evidence that Kisii have an easier delivering children.  Do you have any supporting citation?

Yes I do, plenty  I have data for pelvic inlet depths, for paleo people its 97%, for agriculturalists it was in the 70% range, a huge drop. Must have been awful for the poor women who lived in that age.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

I don't see it that way.  Evolution is about trade-offs that work for the species, not perfection.  For homo-sapiens, natural selection favored those with bigger brains over those who have wider airways and what have you.

Haha Hapa umeingia offside boss, evolution works for perfection - survival of the fittest, eg animals have perfect occlusion - no crooked teeth, you will never see dogs needing braces or even primates. It is only humans who suffer from malocclusion. It is only human females that endure painful labor and maybe hyenas. What does that tell you? We have altered our environments and diets for the worse. eg...Indoor living leads to allergies causing blocked noses, mouth breathing follows, then you have malformed jaws, narrow mouths and constricted airways. If you look at the skeletal records, all skulls before 10,000 yrs ago had perfect dentition, no caries, wisdom teeth present, wide dental arches, just superb oral development. Guess what, they had bigger brains too. So we had big brains and wide airways, no tradeoffs required. In fact you could say having a good supply of oxygen is requisite for a large healthy brain. Feeding on soft mushy food doesn't stimulate the proper growth of the orofacial muscles and bones. It is a mess, snoring is only seen in humans, it was absent in early man, now we have sleep apnea which is even worse.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Interesting perspective. I would also say the domestication of man by the grains meant lazy sedentary lifestyle thus less physical activity. This must also have had an effect on the pelvic.

Not correct, farming was hard work and toil, it was hunter and gatherers who were lazing about after a few hours of foraging.

It has to do with DIET. Animal protein is superior to grains.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I don't see it that way.  Evolution is about trade-offs that work for the species, not perfection.  For homo-sapiens, natural selection favored those with bigger brains over those who have wider airways and what have you.

Haha Hapa umeingia offside boss, evolution works for perfection - survival of the fittest, eg animals have perfect occlusion - no crooked teeth, you will never see dogs needing braces or even primates. It is only humans who suffer from malocclusion. It is only human females that endure painful labor and maybe hyenas. What does that tell you? We have altered our environments and diets for the worse. eg...Indoor living leads to allergies causing blocked noses, mouth breathing follows, then you have malformed jaws, narrow mouths and constricted airways. If you look at the skeletal records, all skulls before 10,000 yrs ago had perfect dentition, no caries, wisdom teeth present, wide dental arches, just superb oral development. Guess what, they had bigger brains too. So we had big brains and wide airways, no tradeoffs required. In fact you could say having a good supply of oxygen is requisite for a large healthy brain. Feeding on soft mushy food doesn't stimulate the proper growth of the orofacial muscles and bones. It is a mess, snoring is only seen in humans, it was absent in early man, now we have sleep apnea which is even worse.

While my specific example may have been wrong, and human childbearing is indeed a pain in the ass, it came as trade-off for our increased ability for persistence hunting.  The point remains the same.

I think you are conflating fittest with perfect.  Fittest just means best adapted to take advantage of the given environment to promote the survival of the species.  It does not mean superiority(or even just convenience) in every biological aspect.  For homo-sapiens sapiens, their trump card has been their generalist(not necessarily perfect) nature. 

I am sure you know all this.  I don't understand why you jumping through hoops to suggest otherwise. 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Before agriculture, childbirth was much easier, quicker, and less painful. The diets of hunter-gatherers meant their women had greater pelvic depths.  Phytates from a diet too high in grains prevents minerals from being absorbed into the bloodstream. Pelvic inlet depth declined tremendously with adoption of agriculture. Pelvic inlet depth is a measure of the size of the pelvic canal through which a baby would pass during birth.

Birth is easy among Inuits, expecting mothers would deliver at night and not even bother to awaken their husbands they would just introduce the new baby in the morning.

The fall of humanity started once we settled down to plant grains and cereals.

The airways of modern human beings are narrow compared to our ancient ancestors. It contributes to snoring, sleep apnea, poor sleep, mouth breathing and so many other pathologies.

Modern humans are seriously deformed.

I know a Gusii woman who gave birth in the morning and was back at work that afternoon .  This is hardly scientific evidence that Kisii have an easier delivering children.  Do you have any supporting citation?

Yes I do, plenty  I have data for pelvic inlet depths, for paleo people its 97%, for agriculturalists it was in the 70% range, a huge drop. Must have been awful for the poor women who lived in that age.

Then you can share a link.

[Dear Mami]

I know a Gusii woman who gave birth in the morning and was back at work that afternoon .

Damn! They must've been paying her a LOT, so much she couldn't see herself "wasting" a month or two at home. Or she must've been super desperate for cash. You people (Americans) still don't offer your women paid maternity leave. A travesty. Even banana republics like our Kwinya offer it for formal employment at least.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I know a Gusii woman who gave birth in the morning and was back at work that afternoon .

Damn! They must've been paying her a LOT, so much she couldn't see herself "wasting" a month or two at home. Or she must've been super desperate for cash. You people (Americans) still don't offer your women paid maternity leave. A travesty. Even banana republics like our Kwinya offer it for formal employment at least.

This was in Kenya though; she is a workaholic, and no she didn't need the cash at all coming from a well to do family.  But yes, the US has major issues with "sharing the wealth" thanks to, believe it or not, racism.