Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Kadudu on September 08, 2016, 11:13:21 AM
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Strange that this articles have not made headlines in the top newspapers. The Star does not even mention the Auditor General's report.
So this issue is refusing to go. We were told the cash came to Kenya but there is nothing to show of it. Even the Controller of Budget has actually made a damning revelation to Treasury officials.
BTW, Jaindi Kisero wrote on Tuesday the same thing after reading the AG's report on the Eurobond.
The Auditor General has declared that Sh215 billion from Kenya’s controversial Eurobond funds has not been accounted for, two years after the Government claimed the cash was allocated to ministries. The finding comes in Government audit report, which shows that, contrary to claims that the funds were allocated to some ministries, there is no proof of “receipt of expenditure” of this money anywhere in government.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000215138/audit-sh215b-eurobond-cash-unaccounted-for
The Auditor General was not satisfied that the Eurobond money was received and spent.
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/We-need-to-clear-the-questions-around-this-Eurobond-matter/440808-3371898-86atlxz/index.html
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They unveiled a Eurobond towers, the jap nervous centre. Plus numerous malls in nairobi and vicinity. Oppottunies and Jobs created are numerous.
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Eurobond = Jubilee kitty
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Strange that this articles have not made headlines in the top newspapers. The Star does not even mention the Auditor General's report.
So this issue is refusing to go. We were told the cash came to Kenya but there is nothing to show of it. Even the Controller of Budget has actually made a damning revelation to Treasury officials.
BTW, Jaindi Kisero wrote on Tuesday the same thing after reading the AG's report on the Eurobond.
The Auditor General has declared that Sh215 billion from Kenya’s controversial Eurobond funds has not been accounted for, two years after the Government claimed the cash was allocated to ministries. The finding comes in Government audit report, which shows that, contrary to claims that the funds were allocated to some ministries, there is no proof of “receipt of expenditure” of this money anywhere in government.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000215138/audit-sh215b-eurobond-cash-unaccounted-for (http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000215138/audit-sh215b-eurobond-cash-unaccounted-for)
The Auditor General was not satisfied that the Eurobond money was received and spent.
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/We-need-to-clear-the-questions-around-this-Eurobond-matter/440808-3371898-86atlxz/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/We-need-to-clear-the-questions-around-this-Eurobond-matter/440808-3371898-86atlxz/index.html)
You only need to look at the documents Treasury released alleging accountability to arrive at a similar conclusion. We had that discussion here. Partisan blinkers meant that even those documents did not receive even a glance by the jubilant wing.
I am sure you know enough not cross your fingers that any meaningful is going to come off this revelation.
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The auditor general is marked for removal by parliament. How dare he reveal this crap!!
Even the opposition has been quiet about it, so who is he?
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The Auditor General did not reveal anything. He only confirmed what was long suspected.
The auditor general is marked for removal by parliament. How dare he reveal this crap!!
Even the opposition has been quiet about it, so who is he?
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The Auditor General did not reveal anything. He only confirmed what was long suspected.
The auditor general is marked for removal by parliament. How dare he reveal this crap!!
Even the opposition has been quiet about it, so who is he?
An open secret really. If one cared enough to look at the facts in a detached manner.
The scary bit, for me, is not the lack of accountability. But rather the deafening silence from the officials(MPs) tasked with probing this thing. They have not even made token noises in the right places.
To be fair to EACC and DPP they have not been silent at all but rather given it a clean bill of health.
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Most MPIGS are money hungry. If they can get some of the loot, who cares?
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Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
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In his defence he has always taken treasury's position that the money was fully accounted for.
He is a die hard defender of the status quo...
Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
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Uhuru should explain to kenyans where the money went....incoming government should make it clear to the loan sharks especially the Chinese that loans made to Jubilee where money cannot be accounted they may not honor them.
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Uhuru should explain to kenyans where the money went....incoming government should make it clear to the loan sharks especially the Chinese that loans made to Jubilee where money cannot be accounted they may not honor them.
He would have done that a long time ago, if it was possible. Henry Rotich tried. Mostly he just obfuscated the issue. What are the chances of him releasing something contradicting the auditor general?
The AG is saying that the money was not received by the ministries. How can he even start to imagine how something that was not received could have been spent? He is talking about over 2 billion USD. Some of us were worried about 999 million USD. How does that kind of money go missing and nothing happens?
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Incoming government should make it clear to the loan sharks especially the Chinese that loans made to Jubilee where money cannot be accounted they may not honor them.
It's really upto wanjiku to go after her money. Get at least something for what she and grandchildren are going to be paying. Does she care enough? Remains to be seen.
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Robina's nailed it in the head.
Eurobond = Jubilee kitty
Eurobond = Jubilee kitty
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I like Pundit's arguement that Treasury disbursed the cash to ministries. I have three comments to make.
First of all, the Auditor Genral clearly states that there is no evidence of such transactions. Surely Treasury would have had no problem laying the evidence to the Auditor General.
Secondly the ministries have no projects to show spent on with the Eurobond. The Auditor General gives a good example of the Water Ministry which "received" over 11 billion Ksh from the Eurobond and cannot show any projects.
Thirdly, the Eurobond was specifically advertised as "infrastructure" bond. It would be prudent for the money lenders to come to Kenya and ask to be shown the said projects. The only problem is that these lenders are just interested in their interest. They do not care what is done with the cash as long as the borrowing state pays back. With the low interest rates in developed countries, it has become attractive to lend money to the develoing world despite of the economical and political risks involved.
In his defence he has always taken treasury's position that the money was fully accounted for.
He is a die hard defender of the status quo...
Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
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I like Pundit's arguement that Treasury disbursed the cash to ministries. I have three comments to make.
First of all, the Auditor Genral clearly states that there is no evidence of such transactions. Surely Treasury would have had no problem laying the evidence to the Auditor General.
Secondly the ministries have no projects to show spent on with the Eurobond. The Auditor General gives a good example of the Water Ministry which "received" over 11 billion Ksh from the Eurobond and cannot show any projects.
Thirdly, the Eurobond was specifically advertised as "infrastructure" bond. It would be prudent for the money lenders to come to Kenya and ask to be shown the said projects. The only problem is that these lenders are just interested in their interest. They do not care what is done with the cash as long as the borrowing state pays back. With the low interest rates in developed countries, it has become attractive to lend money to the develoing world despite of the economical and political risks involved.
In his defence he has always taken treasury's position that the money was fully accounted for.
He is a die hard defender of the status quo...
Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
He is partial to whatever Rotich and the jubilant says. The truth is not as important as the doubts, however unreasonable, that can be raised about the AG's claims. Right now, all Jubilee needs is to create an element of doubt. They can simply deny it and move on. Who has ever cared what the AG says anyway?
Agnes Odhiambo insists the money went into the consolidated fund. While this does not address what the AG is raising, it is more than enough for those predisposed to partisan politics in everything to dismiss the AG. As you can see, this story has barely made the news.
A significant portion of the Kenyan population, possibly as high as half, is fine living with serious unaddressed doubts about financial dealings as long as their "our man" does not suffer politically.
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Here we go again with baseless spin. Treasury received the monies in their account in Central Bank. The money was disbursed by the Controller of Budget/Treasury as per the budget line authorized by Mps. If the receiving ministry cannot account for the money - that is hardly suprising. Gov ministries remain dents of corruption as we saw in NYS. The Auditors office is not helping with generic report -- he need to go deeper --and nail the thieves.
Eurobond hulabaloo is driven by people who are hopeless misinformed on things gov finance. How do you dice whatever a ministry received - do you know whether it was from KRA or Eurobond or domestic borrowing ? Each ministry sent their proposal to Treasury/Parliament..and those approved become budget lines...and treasury finances them whenever there is money....so there is no way of knowing this is Eurobond money wired or whatever KRA collected. If the ministry didn't receive money - then probably there wasn't enough money and the projects XYZ was postphoned or altered by suplementary budget. If they received money - and the cannot account for this - then that calls for corruption investigation.
Every week gov borrows billions of money. This year we certainly borrowed certainly more than 210B. There is nothing special about Eurobond.
The only difference here is that money was borrowed externally...otherwise as you speak about 2014 Eurobond..Rotich this week floated billions worth of bond..and received the money (from our banks, insurance companies and pension funds, individuals)...and wired it as per budget. That is Rotich job...to finance the nearly 800B deficit....as well as receiving whatever KRA collects.
Gov should float more eurobond...as opposed to borrowing locally..as local as FX is stable. Those claiming Eurobond disappeared into thin air at some point are best ignored.
Eti Eurobond should be noticeable :) :) Gov simply swapped the domestic debt market for foreign market...end of the day...this year we borrowed more than Eurobond..and it's not noticeable to naked eye. Rotich according to some report I read has been borrowing 40B every month. Why not make a meal about it? The projection is for GOk to borrow 350B this year - way more than Eurobond..and all will disappear into gov.
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The AG and COB are not contradicting each other because they are not talking about the same thing. This leaves the AG's claims uncontested.
In a functional state, what is supposed to follow such declarations by the AG? Do people just ignore it and take Henry Rotich's position? In whose court is the ball? Parliament? Police? DPP?
Is Edward Ouko really out of his depth? Does this accountant(of many decades) really not get it when Rotich says the money was given to the line ministries from one basket? Is that even believable? What does the AG know to come with such claims?
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In his defence he has always taken treasury's position that the money was fully accounted for.
He is a die hard defender of the status quo...
Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
And to think that that Konoin Kipsigis got run out of Nipate.com by the Itumbi paid bloggers
for going against status quo after being status quo defender No 1 for some years
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In his defence he has always taken treasury's position that the money was fully accounted for.
He is a die hard defender of the status quo...
Pundit is conspicuously silent 8) 8)
And to think that that Konoin Kipsigis got run out of Nipate.com by the Itumbi paid bloggers
for going against status quo after being status quo defender No 1 for some years
I'd be more curious to know what he thinks about what Edward Ouko appears to be saying or doing. I already know his political views and what he thinks about those of us who think Eurobond is a cloudy affair.
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Let us see the Auditor General report; not the baseless spin. There is no way you can distinguish Eurobond in a ministry allocation. The only ringfenced money was the one use to retire 600M USD expensive commercial loan borrowed by Kibadinga regime.
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Let us see the Auditor General report; not the baseless spin. There is no way you can distinguish Eurobond in a ministry allocation. The only ringfenced money was the one use to retire 600M USD expensive commercial loan borrowed by Kibadinga regime.
Red: If that is so, then the Auditor General doesn't know what he's doing and should get appropriate advice from Nipateans. He seems to think that it ought to be possible to make distinctions, even at the level of ministries---how much a ministry got from the Eurobond and what it was used for. For example, on page 225 of his report, he writes that:
During the year under review, the State Department of Water received Ksh 11, 170, 613, 958 funded through the Sovereign Bond. However, the management has not provided a list of projects that were funded by the Eurobond proceeds. In the circumstances, it has not been possible to confirm how the Eurobond funds were utilized.
The report can be found here: http://www.kenao.go.ke/index.php/reports/cat_view/2-reports/9-national-government-and-state-corporations/69-government-ministries
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Let us see the Auditor General report; not the baseless spin. There is no way you can distinguish Eurobond in a ministry allocation. The only ringfenced money was the one use to retire 600M USD expensive commercial loan borrowed by Kibadinga regime.
Red: If that is so, then the Auditor General doesn't know what he's doing and should get appropriate advice from Nipateans. He seems to think that it ought to be possible to make distinctions, even at the level of ministries---how much a ministry got from the Eurobond and what it was used for. For example, on page 225 of his report, he writes that:
During the year under review, the State Department of Water received Ksh 11, 170, 613, 958 funded through the Sovereign Bond account. However, the management has not provided a list of projects that were funded by the Eurobond proceeds. In the circumstances, it has not been possible to confirm how the Eurobond funds were utilized.
The report can be found here: http://www.kenao.go.ke/index.php/reports/cat_view/2-reports/9-national-government-and-state-corporations/69-government-ministries (http://www.kenao.go.ke/index.php/reports/cat_view/2-reports/9-national-government-and-state-corporations/69-government-ministries)
I see how he is doing it. If you can recall some of that money, I think the 999 million USD was deposited in the Sovereign Bond account. And the tap sales as well. This is the basket he is looking at. It would appear that he has information from Treasury indicating that they funded the ministries directly from this account.
Previously there was a controversy about some letters purporting to move the monies from the Sovereign Bond account to the Consolidated Fund that the treasury posted on the Treasury's website. The implication here is that they put the money into the Consolidated Fund first. And then funded the ministries.
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I see how he is doing it. If you can recall some of that money, I think the 999 million USD was deposited in the Sovereign Bond account. And the tap sales as well. This is the basket he is looking at. It would appear that he has information from Treasury indicating that they funded the ministries directly from this account.
Previously there was a controversy about some letters purporting to move the monies from the Sovereign Bond account to the Consolidated Fund that the treasury posted on the Treasury's website. The implication here is that they put the money into the Consolidated Fund first. And then funded the ministries.
There is no way he can do the impossible. :D
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By the way, one implication of the "Water" statement is that the Eurobond money would not have gone to the ministries as just another part of a lump sum: it appears to be regarded as a particular type of funding, with the expectation that use can be readily determined.
Interestingly, one of Ndii's articles was to the effect that a "heist" was carried out by "cooking the books" in terms of "allocations"/"expenditures" to/by ministries. Be that as it may, it is (or ought to be) disturbing that 2 years after the bond issue, the Auditor General still says that
Investigations into the receipts, accounting, and use of the funds related to the Sovereign/Euro Bond are still on-going and the accuracy of the net proceeds ... is yet to be ascertained.
The other interesting aspect of the AG's report is that there seems to be quite a bit of other money just disappearing all over the place.
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I see how he is doing it. If you can recall some of that money, I think the 999 million USD was deposited in the Sovereign Bond account. And the tap sales as well. This is the basket he is looking at. It would appear that he has information from Treasury indicating that they funded the ministries directly from this account.
Previously there was a controversy about some letters purporting to move the monies from the Sovereign Bond account to the Consolidated Fund that the treasury posted on the Treasury's website. The implication here is that they put the money into the Consolidated Fund first. And then funded the ministries.
There is no way he can do the impossible. :D
If I am right, it looks like the Treasury fed the public this story. That the money went to the CF and then to the ministries. In which case, Henry Rotich's and Pundit's version would be correct. That you cannot tell Eurobond apart from everything else. You could make educated guesses and estimates, in terms of the whole lumpsum, but Eurobond tag as an element of information is effectively lost. And to support that claim, they released some (controversial) letters "showing movement of money from the Sovereign Bond account to the CF" on their website.
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By the way, one implication of the "Water" statement was that the Eurobond money would not have gone to the ministries as just another part of a lump sum: it appears to be regarded as a particular type of funding, with the expectation that use can be readily determined.
Interestingly, one of Ndii's articles was to the effect that a "heist" was carried out by "cooking the books" in terms of "allocations" to ministries. Be that as it may, it is (or ought to be) disturbing that 2 years after the bond issue, the Auditor General still says that
Investigations into the receipts, accounting, and use of the funds related to the Sovereign/Euro Bond are still on-going and the accuracy of the net proceeds ... is yet to be ascertained.
Now, the AG has obviously received a different account of transactions from what the public has been told, if I understand his report. There was a small part of Eurobond that went to the CF as expected - if that disappears, it will disappear as part of a blob. But the 999 million USD and the tap sales went into the SB. It is possible to know the Eurobond money if they move it directly from SB to the ministries. They appear to have informed or given the AG reason to believe this is what happened. This alone would contradict what Treasury has been spoon-feeding the public for months. Suspect? yes. But possibly forgivable in that environment if the transfers can be traced. The AG is saying this has not happened, at least in verifiable terms.
The other interesting aspect of the AG's report is that there seems to be quite a bit of other money just disappearing all over the place.
Man cannot subsist on grass alone.
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The other interesting aspect of the AG's report is that there seems to be quite a bit of other money just disappearing all over the place.
Man cannot subsist on grass alone.
Quite true. None of us is a goat, and Kenyans are especially known for their fondness for nyama choma.
Still, it is somewhat surprisingly that the Opposition does not care to highlight such things. I did a few sums on this latest report, and the numbers are staggering.
The AG brings this up year after year, but nobody seems to care. Sample:
Last year, Sh338 billion of the total government expenditure for 2011/2012 was unaccounted-for. The total budget for the 2012/2013 financial year stood at Sh1.45 trillion, of which 30 per cent or Sh483 billion is likely to be misappropriated, he reckons.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000107710/sh500b-state-funds-cannot-be-accounted-for-says-auditor-general-edward-ouko
How much was borrowed in the Eurobond? How much was borrowed for the SGR?
In some cases the theft is so blatant that even a River Road manamba cannot miss it. An example in this report is what the AG calls an "excess and illegal payment" of Sh. 145 million by the Ministry of Defense: someone paying Sh. 185m for two excavators valued at Sh. 40m.
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How is the AG report helpful. He need to tell us more. How did the money get disbursed from IFMIS. The 10b given to Ministry was for which project? Which bank account was the money banked? Who were the fake contractors.Unless this is summary report - this sound political - not a technical report you expert from an auditor.
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How is the AG report helpful. He need to tell us more. How did the money get disbursed from IFMIS. The 10b given to Ministry was for which project? Which bank account was the money banked? Who were the fake contractors.Unless this is summary report - this sound political - not a technical report you expert from an auditor.
It is the Treasury that claims the Water Department got the Sh. 11 billion. So questions as to bank-acccount and for-what really ought to be directed at Treasury. All the AG has been trying to do---apparently unsuccessfully---is determine what the money was used for. (And he had earlier warned of the danger that the Eurobond money could be used in ways other than what iit was intended for.)
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The other interesting aspect of the AG's report is that there seems to be quite a bit of other money just disappearing all over the place.
Man cannot subsist on grass alone.
Quite true. None of us is a goat, and Kenyans are especially known for their fondness for nyama choma.
Still, it is somewhat surprisingly that the Opposition does not care to highlight such things. I did a few sums on this latest report, and the numbers are staggering.
The AG brings this up year after year, but nobody seems to care. Sample:
Last year, Sh338 billion of the total government expenditure for 2011/2012 was unaccounted-for. The total budget for the 2012/2013 financial year stood at Sh1.45 trillion, of which 30 per cent or Sh483 billion is likely to be misappropriated, he reckons.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000107710/sh500b-state-funds-cannot-be-accounted-for-says-auditor-general-edward-ouko (http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000107710/sh500b-state-funds-cannot-be-accounted-for-says-auditor-general-edward-ouko)
How much was borrowed in the Eurobond? How much was borrowed for the SGR?
In some cases the theft is so blatant that even a River Road manamba cannot miss it. An example in this report is what the AG calls an "excess and illegal payment" of Sh. 145 million by the Ministry of Defense: someone paying Sh. 185m for two excavators valued at Sh. 40m.
The same reason I am confused elsewhere on the thread what the whole point of the AG report is. Who is supposed to follow up? Is it EACC? Police? DPP? Raila? David Ndii? Parliament perhaps?
The 30% theft figure has been known for a few years now. Most of it garden variety daylight robbery. It seems to bother exactly nobody, including(perhaps especially) the opposition. The whole state apparatus seems to have some sort of symbiosis when it comes to the issue. None of these guys is interested in anything more than lip service.
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Assassin,
The Auditor General's report should be taken up by Parliament - it is an independent constitutional office. PAC, PIC, etc. These watchdog committees are chaired by the Opposition for this very reason. This is where our dysfunction and runaway corruption stinks to light years away.
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Assassin,
The Auditor General's report should be taken up by Parliament - it is an independent constitutional office. PAC, PIC, etc. These watchdog committees are chaired by the Opposition for this very reason. This is where our dysfunction and runaway corruption stinks to light years away.
No mystery why this is going exactly nowhere. Also no mystery why the opposition's campaigns are virtually mute on corruption.
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The same reason I am confused elsewhere on the thread what the whole point of the AG report is. Who is supposed to follow up? Is it EACC? Police? DPP? Raila? David Ndii? Parliament perhaps?
The 30% theft figure has been known for a few years now. Most of it garden variety daylight robbery. It seems to bother exactly nobody, including(perhaps especially) the opposition. The whole state apparatus seems to have some sort of symbiosis when it comes to the issue. None of these guys is interested in anything more than lip service.
Perhaps everyone is eating and therefore not keen that things should be put under the microscope. And, as you noted earlier, perhaps even Wanjiku herself doesn't care as along as the eating is done by the "right" people. The AG's report is yet another huge confirmation of a "bandit economy", but look at the trivia that is currently keeping the Kenya media busy and the wananchi excited. Does anyone really care?
Politicians are fond of telling the youth that they are "the future of our great country". The less that is actually so, the more often the line is repeated. But ironically or incredibly or whatever, that is actually so in the case of Kenya: at some point they will stop buying the stories of how they will leap from boda-boda to getting rich in the "Silicon Savannah"---just wait for 2030, etc.---and go grab it for themselves. To my mind, the signs are already there. For example, where Pundit sees something positive in more and more people being employed as watchmen, I see signs of dangerous inequities in society.
The current reality is that even an attempt at an honest discussion of anything is impossible---tribe, politics, etc. (Just take a look at the various insults flying about in the social media.)
Real change in Kenya will come "the hard way". Our history shows shows that to be the "preferred" way.
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The French are shaking up Lagarde - she gave the Eurobond a clean bill of health - and going after 445 million USD. What are these guys? Paupers?
The accusations stem from Lagarde's handling of a dispute with Tapie, a colourful businessman and former minister who claimed a state bank defrauded him in its sale of sportswear giant Adidas.
Tapie owned Adidas between 1990 and 1993 but lost control of it after he went bankrupt. He also owned the Marseille football team.
On becoming finance minister in 2007 under the newly elected president Nicolas Sarkozy, Lagarde ordered that Tapie's long-running battle with the state be resolved by arbitration.
The decision was hugely costly, with Tapie initially walking away with a staggering 404 million euros ($445 million) in compensation in 2008. After a lengthy court battle, he has since been ordered to repay it.
Investigators suspect the arbitration process was rigged in favour of Tapie, who had supported Sarkozy in his 2007 election campaign.
Lagarde, who served as finance minister from 2007 until 2011, has always insisted she acted in France's best interests.
Although she is not accused of personally profiting from the payment, she has been criticised for failing to challenge the award.
http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/IMF-boss-Lagarde-to-go-on-trial-in-France/2558-3379432-gcqmv0z/index.html (http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/news/IMF-boss-Lagarde-to-go-on-trial-in-France/2558-3379432-gcqmv0z/index.html)
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The French are shaking up Lagarde - she gave the Eurobond a clean bill of health - and going after 445 million USD.
Not quite. The IMF statement one was a carefully worded one that seemed to say something but actually said nothing. It stated that they could confirm that money had been received by the government and was therefore accessible for the government's use. I don't think anyone disputes that.
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The French are shaking up Lagarde - she gave the Eurobond a clean bill of health - and going after 445 million USD.
Not quite. The IMF statement one was a carefully worded one that seemed to say something but actually said nothing. It stated that they could confirm that money had been received by the government and was therefore accessible for the government's use. I don't think anyone disputes that.
Agreed. The auditor general himself thinks it was in the Sovereign Bond and now it's not. Even if he cannot tell you where it went. Henry Rotich and Agnes Odhiambo say it was transferred to CF in drips - a secret they have obviously kept from the auditor general.