Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on January 08, 2015, 03:00:04 PM
-
By ANGIRA ZADOCK
Police rushed controversial businessman Paul Kobia to the hospital Thursday morning after he became violent in his house.
Kenya Police spokesperson Zipporah Mboroki said Mr Kobia, a licenced firearm holder and a resident of Runda estate, became violent and was taken to Gigiri police station by his family members.
(http://nairobinews.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Paul-Kobia-300x200.jpg)
Businessman Kobia shows off his vehicles. PHOTO | COURTESY
“He appeared disturbed and our officers escorted him to the hospital for mental examination,” said Ms Mboroki.
Police said that the family members, assisted by Nairobi Senator Mike Mbuvi Sonko, took the businessman to the station “for management” but they later took him to a city hospital.
Mr Kobia, according to the police, had also claimed that he was behind the mysterious death of former Prime Minister Raila Odinga’s son, Fidel Odinga.
At 10:16 Thursday, Ms Mboroki, the Kenya Police spokesperson, called this writer and informed him that she had confirmed from police criminal investigations chief Nicholas Kamwende that Mr Kobia started shooting in the air in his home saying he had killed Fidel.
She said his family was then assisted by Senator Sonko to take Mr Kobia to Gigiri police station, who took him to Aga Khan hospital.
Moments later, acting Inspector General of Police Samuel Arachi sent a statement to the newsroom saying Mr Kobia had not been arrested in relation to the death of Fidel.
“We want to clarify that Mr Kobia was taken to Gigiri police station by his family who wanted to be assisted in having him restrained and escorted to a psychiatrist after he started shouting incoherently and acting violently,” said Mr Arachi.
“The said Kobia has therefore not been arrested as such.”
CONGO GOLD SCAM
Mr Kobia alias Paul Ilunga Ngoei, is no stranger to the limelight. The man was mentioned in the 392 page UN report over Congo Gold Scam.
In July 15 last year, he shot dead a suspect while driving along Limuru Road at around 7.45 pm. Police reports at the time stated that he had been confronted by three men, one armed with a pistol. One of the suspects snatched his phone, a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 valued at Sh74,000.
He pursued them and shot one of them dead. However nothing was recovered.
Police immediately identified the deceased as John Wanjohi Mugwanja, 31. The two others are said to have escaped to the City Park Forest.
“Officers who responded pursued the suspects but did not trace them. We have launched investigations into the reported attack and the shooting,” police had said.
The investigation file was forwarded to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions for further direction but no action has ever been taken.
Ms Mboroki, at the time, said investigations had revealed that there were some inconsistencies in Mr Kobia’s statement, prompting further investigations.
(http://nairobinews.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Paul-Kobia-2-524x350.jpg)
MURDER CHARGE
“We are waiting for the advice of the DPP on whether to charge the suspect with murder or institute an inquest,” she said.
Mr Kobia is a licenced firearm holder, and was armed with a Browning Pistol.
The DPP is to decide whether Mr Kobia should be charged with murder or manslaughter, and also consider any defence Mr Kobia had and how it is likely to affect the prospect of prosecution.
Police have maintained that contrary to what has been claimed, the man was not known to Mr Kobia, neither had he worked with him.
Speaking to Nairobi News after the shooting incident last year, Mr Kobia had said that he had never met the deceased.
“I shot in the air twice before I shot him as he was escaping with my phone which he had snatched. He has never been my partner. All my partners stay in Karen,” he said.
The postmortem was conducted on July 24, and it established that Mr Mugwanja was shot two times at close range from the front. He was shot on the face and chest, probably when kneeling.
The investigations, which started at Parklands police station, were later taken over by Corporal John Njeru from the DCIO’s office in Gigiri.
http://nairobinews.co.ke/businessman-rushed-to-hospital-after-claiming-he-killed-fidel-odinga/
-
All Hell Has broken loose...
Alleged statehouse operative Paul Kobia has been arrested and is currently recording statements at Gigiri police station on suspicion that he may have been involved in the murder of Fidel Odinga son of Prime Minister Raila Odinga.
Kahawa Tungu a blog associated with blogger Robert Alai is reporting that Paul Kobia was early this week heard bragging to some patrons and the owner of Buffet Park, Mr Muya that he killed Hon Raila Odinga’s son, Fidel Odinga. In one of the most stupid showmanship Kobia explained that he killed Fidel because he had been assaulted by Raila security detail last year on orders from Fidel.
The confessions were heard by some of Fidel’s friends who reported to the police and upon further investigating have finally arrested Kobia for interrogation. Kobia is believed to enjoy state security owing to his strong links to Statehouse.
It is also now emerging that on December 20th, Paul Kobia promised his friends that he will make sure that Fidel Odinga is hurt. Kobia who was at the home of one Steve Mbogo spoke in the presence of UoN student leader Babu Owino.
Kobia moves around in a convoy of cars including police chase cars and is always armed with weapons including shotguns and pistols.
It is not clear why Paul Kobia enjoys such kind of state protection. He is known to be a friend of Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko who has constantly refuted the claim.
Paul Kobia was once caught on camera with his friends mike sonko,Bishop kiuna & musician Jaguar ‘plotting’ to kill Hon Raila Odinga this led to Kobia being roughed up by Raila’s bodyguards at a city hotel where he showed up while Raila was having lunch with Fidel.
Paul kobia is alleged to be involved in illicit Gold trade from DRC to Kenya
https://www.kenya-today.com/news/breaking-fidel-odinga-alleged-killer-paul-kobia-arrested-police
-
Comments....
Gordon Wuod Awino · Public Relation Officer at China wu yi company
May God give these group wisdom to know that we are all human and one day we'll join Fidel, Paul Kobia,pistol or any whatever you have for self defense will not help you when that final time comes...you have money yes but even Njenga Karume left what will take you years to have so please seek God's guidance.
Reply · Like · 4 · Follow Post · 3 hours ago
Joseph Evans Agolla Nyagonya · Works at Self-Employed
Surprisingly no comments from our brothers and sisters from Central. But killing a prominent Luo like those days of Mboya, JM and Ouko today is unfortunate and perhaps, if it is true then I ask our own fellow Kenyans to avenge his death too. This is how Israel has managed to survive with Arabs and Palentines. For how long shall we watch our people dying in the hands of various successive Kenyan leaderships without doing anything?
Reply · Like · 1 · Follow Post · 3 hours ago
Jeff Junior · Follow · Troy University
I once watched a nigeria movie where a witch started running naked and counting loudly all the villagers she had killed. Be careful before you touch some untouchable who only God can touch . postmortem may not reveal but be careful.
Reply · Like · 1 · Follow Post · 2 hours ago
Philip Mwenda Muthamia · Top Commenter · Nairobi, Kenya
How can someone brag to kill another person? If he is the one who did that, so Kobia won't die one day?
Reply · Like · 1 · Follow Post · 3 hours ago
Mary Mungai · Works at House maid
Damu ya mwandamu haiwezi potelea chini kama ya mnyama lazima angejisema
Reply · Like · 1 · Follow Post · 2 hours ago
Justus Okoth · Logistician at Worked for oxfam GB,in upper Nile state
We as human beings do not have power but incase senior pple who are mentioned in this strategic death of Fidel can do that,I asure you kenyans human being can never jurge one another but let them know the jurgement day is near.We now know where our beloved country kenya is heading and those who are driving it to that destination.Their intention is as well known but we leave all to our creator .
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 2 hours ago
Lilian Wendy · Kenya school of professional studies
I wish God comes today!!! and judge each one of us according to our dids without any discrimination no matter who you are and where you come from. May God help the helpless Kenyans....
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 2 hours ago
Blessed Daughter · Kisumu
This is unbelievable, why r pple so wicked? why kill an innocent son? may God avenge sooner than you thought. i hope he also have kids
Reply · Like · Follow Post · about an hour ago
Lilian Wright · Follow · Works at TSC
My God liveth n he will punish yu accordingly kobia yu wont die lyk fidel bt the kivuitu way after so much pain
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 2 hours ago
Sandra Indeche · Jkuat
Unbelievable!!!!this is deeep..but why??
Reply · Like · Follow Post · 3 hours ago
-
This should be investigated but by who? Kobia and Sonko ran the statehouse and security agencies with other shady characters.
Raila should demand an international inquest.
-
Paul Kobia was early this week heard bragging to some patrons and the owner of Buffet Park, Mr Muya that he killed Hon Raila Odinga’s son, Fidel Odinga. In one of the most stupid showmanship, the thug and runaway killer who has connections right inside State House confessed to the patrons that he killed Fidel because he organised his assault.
The confessions were heard by friends of Fidel who have revealed this to security officers. Kobia made the confession on Monday night at Buffet park. The security officers have refused to act because Paul Kobia enjoys State House protection. He moves around in a convoy of cars including police chase cars. Paul Kobia is also always armed with weapons including shotguns and pistols.
It is not clear why Paul Kobia enjoys such kind of state protection. He is known to be a friend of Nairobi Senator Mike Sonko who has constantly refuted this saying that he is not a friend of Kobia.
Friends of Raila are now demanding that Kobia be arrested.
UPDATE:
On December 20th, Paul Kobia promised his friends that he will make sure that Fidel Odinga is hurt. Kobia who was at the home of one Steve Mbogo spoke in the presence of UoN student leader Babu Owino. Steve Mbogo said that Fidel deserved to die and he would ensure that it happens.
After the publication of this post, Paul Kobia was taken to Gigiri Police station by Sonko and his armed brigade. But the Gigiri Police boss refused to lock him up arguing that he is mad and so should be taken to hospital. It is not clear how the Gigiri Police boss determined that Kobia is mad.
Kobia was later taken to Agha Khan hospital.
http://www.kahawatungu.com/2015/01/08/paul-kobia-brags-friends-buffet-park-killed-fidel-odinga/
-
It is amazing that a policeman can decide who is mad and who is not.
This should be investigate but by who? Kobia and Sonko ran the statehouses with other shady characters.
-
You can bet he has so many cops in his pocket with his billions from gold stolen from Kabila...so everyone would want to shut him up now...he will most likely end up dead too.
Kobia has the capability and motive to take Fidel out. These are low level unschooled thugs like Sonko who do not mince words.
It is amazing that a policeman can decide who is mad and who is not.
-
Now that it is out, why not ensure he is handled properly? I would go the Moi way and invite Scotland Yard to take over the investigation and have the DPP recuse himself and hire a commonwealth advocate to serve a sa special counsel for that purpose. As it is Kobia is too closely associated with State House. If he dies, it is a cover-up and if he is let go, the suspicion rises higher.
Moi would have locked up all those vagabonds and closed State House to them.
You can bet he has so many cops in his pocket with his billions from gold stolen from Kabila...so everyone would want to shut him up now...he will most likely end up dead too.
Kobia has the capability and motive to take Fidel out. These are low level unschooled thugs like Sonko who do not mince words.
It is amazing that a policeman can decide who is mad and who is not.
-
They should move swiftly with the investigations before they hide or silence all those who may know something. How sad.... not even money or affluence can rehabilitate these low lives.
-
He will get away with it, that is if he did it
-
If I were Raila I would use my international links to ask for help to pay back Kobia. I would wipe out his family and leave him alive to enjoy it
He will get away with it, that is if he did it
-
Having confessed to the murder. Has Ann Kaguru sentenced him to life with haste yet? Can obienga update us?
-
He should have used them to get the old woman who imported poison. He has none but if it helps a negro sleep, he has some Langley/White House hotline.
I was debating with another guy who does not believe in hell. He tells me that hell is unnecessary because sinner get their reward right here. Sinners and wicked people get away with so much. THis guy was dead wrong. That was just a faulty premise for dismissing hell.
My ideal justice is to torture and then take him out and ensure his family never finds his body. They will be waiting 40 years later for him to come knocking. when the negro will be celebrating his fortieth anniversary in hell
If I were Raila I would use my international links to ask for help to pay back Kobia. I would wipe out his family and leave him alive to enjoy it
He will get away with it, that is if he did it
-
He will get away with it, that is if he did it
He'd be in trouble. He might be good buddies with kamwana but he is not his son. He can be dropped like hot coal when he becomes too much of a liability.
-
vooke
You are dead wrong on Raila not having connections. Do you have friends? I guess you do. How do you use them? May be for company and talk. How about if you had a problem and asked for specific help? That is when you know what avenues you got.
It all depends on how one wishes to use his connections. But I will not delve deeper in to this line of thinking. I know you.
He should have used them to get the old woman who imported poison. He has none but if it helps a negro sleep, he has some Langley/White House hotline.
I was debating with another guy who does not believe in hell. He tells me that hell is unnecessary because sinner get their reward right here. Sinners and wicked people get away with so much. THis guy was dead wrong. That was just a faulty premise for dismissing hell.
My ideal justice is to torture and then take him out and ensure his family never finds his body. They will be waiting 40 years later for him to come knocking. when the negro will be celebrating his fortieth anniversary in hell
If I were Raila I would use my international links to ask for help to pay back Kobia. I would wipe out his family and leave him alive to enjoy it
He will get away with it, that is if he did it
-
A clip of the gentleman issuing warnings to jakom. In the presence of his non-acquaintance Sonko. What's the possibility that these gentlemen came together and plotted to get rid of Fidel? Kobia says he did it. Did he do it alone?
-
On second thought. The negro has bloody dirty hands and enough mullah to take out Fidel.
And Jubirlee can't tell an intelligent lie even if their presidency depended on it
-
The police chief says they did not arrest him. That they took him to mental hospital. I am made to believe that this is after he had fired a couple of shots in the air. They did NOT arrest him. They took him to hospital.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B60eiG8CMAIN9mb.jpg:large)
-
The gentleman has been named in a UN Report on Congo. It would appear that the gentleman has previously masqueraded as a Congolese national.
547. According to Kenyan authorities, all the main gold smugglers in Nairobi use the gold refinery run by Joe Karimi and Paul Kobia (see paras. 621 and 622 below). Kobia, a prominent gold dealer in Nairobi, is a Kenyan national but carries a false Congolese passport under the name Ilunga Ngoy (see annex 145). Kenyan authorities and gold dealers informed the Group that a Cameroonian national, known as Yusuf Omar (see paras. 618-623 below), ran a fake company in Nairobi called Butembo Mining. Omar cooperates with Eddy Michel Malonga (see paras. 609 and 618 below), also from Cameroon, and “Robert”, also known as “Dr. Roba”, a Kenyan national. Omar is included on the list of 15 suspected dealers and uses a false Congolese passport when he travels to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Several gold smugglers interviewed by the Group reported that Omar cooperated with General Bosco Ntaganda (see paras. 238-242, 279, 297-313, 443-445, 460-465, 485-487, 498-504, 530 and 542 above and paras. 569, 571 and 597-631 below), including in the deals involving CAMAC and Black Pearl, as documented by the Group (see paras. 608-627 below). Gold smugglers in Nairobi and staff officers for General Ntaganda in Goma reported that “Bruce”154 (see para. 619 below), a Congolese national established in Nairobi, also carries out business on behalf of Ntaganda in Nairobi and throughout the region.
CID would appear to think that he is some sort of crook.
621. According to the Criminal Investigation Department of the Kenya Police, the key individual behind most of the large gold scams in Nairobi is Paul Kobia (see para. 547 above), who was arrested in March 2011 on related charges. According to documents found by the Kenya Police through raids on Kobia’s properties, Kobia had a large number of commissioners working throughout the region selling counterfeit gold, including Omar.
622. Photographs and descriptions presented by the Kenya Police of a refinery operated by Kobia’s network match those provided by St. Mary (see annex 173). Furthermore, the description of the metal boxes in which the gold was held outside Goma matches the description of those that St. Mary viewed in Nairobi. The Kenya Police seized large numbers of this type of box in Kobia’s homes (see annex 174).
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N11/556/32/PDF/N1155632.pdf
-
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
-
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
For what it's worth, Kobia is a Kenyan. I could place him in a village just based on the speech patterns in the video clip. Without ever knowing his name. He must have needed the passport to carry out whatever shady deals he was doing.
-
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
Whether he is GEMA or not is irrelevant. The man has access to the presidency and other areas of the ruling class. He's just one of many unsavory and possibly criminal characters hanging around Statehouse.
Birds of a feather.....
-
What crime has been committed? How was it committed and by whom? Was an arrest made in connection with the 'murder'? Perhaps those rather intricate forensic investigations should immediately cease since there is a confessed suspect and credible witnesses such as yourself, there is no longer a need to determine the cause of death.
Having confessed to the murder. Has Ann Kaguru sentenced him to life with haste yet? Can obienga update us?
-
Omollo, there is no need to spew such vile lies simply because you believe I will not see them when you can simply state simple facts. Now can you state:
1) Why you constantly feel the need to denigrate and demean entire ethnic populations
2) Where did I state that he has a fake passport, other than he is of Congolese origin
Paul Ilunga Ngoei is a natural born Congolese. Kobia is a common Congolese name which he uses as an alias as are his other multiple aliases. UN investigators made those determinations. Your mission of spurring and spreading vile ethnic hate across the blogosphere will surely get you to reap what you keep sowing.
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
-
Being a blind follower and robotically uttering so called statements of fact that you could not hope to personally defend is commendable as it is entertaining.
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
Whether he is GEMA or not is irrelevant. The man has access to the presidency and other areas of the ruling class. He's just one of many unsavory and possibly criminal characters hanging around Statehouse.
Birds of a feather.....
-
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
Whether he is GEMA or not is irrelevant. The man has access to the presidency and other areas of the ruling class. He's just one of many unsavory and possibly criminal characters hanging around Statehouse.
Birds of a feather.....
bryan275,
Indeed it should not matter where he is from. Kobia is the kind of gentleman I am happy not to share a time zone with. That said, the UN Security Council report says he is a Kenyan national using a false Congolese passport.
After obienga's response, I can now sense where Omollo is coming from though. Prior to that I had no full context in which to place his post. Omollo might be concerned about her claim that Kobia is a Congolese national according to some unreferenced UN determinations.
She would appear to have read the information backward. Saying that Ilunga Ngoei[sic] is the real name, where the UN report says it's the alias. There would appear to be an issue of either deliberate distortion or plain ignorance of the facts of the UN determinations.
-
Some people! This guy can't read, can he? See for yourself. He labels Kobia a "Congolese" on the basis of a fake passport. When I call him out on it, he understands that I am saying he claimed Kobia has a fake passport.
Now wait for bombastic words applied with massive syntactic errors to display "scholarship"....
Omollo,
2) Where did I state that he has a fake passport, other than he is of Congolese origin
547. According to Kenyan authorities, all the main gold smugglers in Nairobi use the gold refinery run by Joe Karimi and Paul Kobia (see paras. 621 and 622 below). Kobia, a prominent gold dealer in Nairobi, is a Kenyan national but carries a false Congolese passport under the name Ilunga Ngoy (see annex 145). Kenyan authorities and gold dealers informed the Group that a Cameroonian national, known as Yusuf Omar (see paras. 618-623 below), ran a fake company in Nairobi called Butembo Mining. Omar cooperates with Eddy Michel Malonga (see paras. 609 and 618 below), also from Cameroon, and “Robert”, also known as “Dr. Roba”, a Kenyan national. Omar is included on the list of 15 suspected dealers and uses a false Congolese passport when he travels to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Several gold smugglers interviewed by the Group reported that Omar cooperated with General Bosco Ntaganda (see paras. 238-242, 279, 297-313, 443-445, 460-465, 485-487, 498-504, 530 and 542 above and paras. 569, 571 and 597-631 below), including in the deals involving CAMAC and Black Pearl, as documented by the Group (see paras. 608-627 below). Gold smugglers in Nairobi and staff officers for General Ntaganda in Goma reported that “Bruce”154 (see para. 619 below), a Congolese national established in Nairobi, also carries out business on behalf of Ntaganda in Nairobi and throughout the region.
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N11/556/32/PDF/N1155632.pdf
-
obienga,
Here is a link to the UN report of the Group of Experts on the Democratic Republic of the Congo http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/2011/738 (http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/2011/738). Can you share any reference from that report(or any other UN document) that supports your claim?
Paul Ilunga Ngoei is a natural born Congolese. Kobia is a common Congolese name which he uses as an alias as are his other multiple aliases. UN investigators made those determinations.
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
-
Thirty hens will each lay five eggs a day before Obienga substantiates or even has the courage to withdraw and apologize. I too want to see that UN investigator's findings. The guy lies like there is no tomorrow.
obienga,
Here is a link to the UN report of the Group of Experts on the Democratic Republic of the Congo http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/2011/738 (http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/2011/738). Can you share any reference from that report(or any other UN document) that supports your claim?
Paul Ilunga Ngoei is a natural born Congolese. Kobia is a common Congolese name which he uses as an alias as are his other multiple aliases. UN investigators made those determinations.
Obienga cites the fake passport to keep GEMA clean by denying their own son.
-
Being a blind follower and robotically uttering so called statements of fact that you could not hope to personally defend is commendable as it is entertaining.
This is abit rich coming from a criminally partisan member of the secret service. I can express my opinion without having to prove anything to you. You really can't help the "askari kanga" tendencies, can you?
This is the last time I will waste my time on you matey... now hit the road jack.
-
It would appear that Paul Kobia Kaberia has been owning guns without the requisite license if this report is to be believed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqylOw4x3u0&t=0m32s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqylOw4x3u0&t=0m32s)
-
Am sure even Omorlo agrees with me, EJK has some merits. Kobia should have been long dispatched
-
Am sure even Omorlo agrees with me, EJK has some merits. Kobia should have been long dispatched
EJK is never the answer. This Kobia may have good value information on the workings of the ruling mafia. After all that a life sentence with hard labour building our roads is probably best.
-
Am sure even Omorlo agrees with me, EJK has some merits. Kobia should have been long dispatched
Because I said I would revenge on Kobia? What a private citizen wishes is very different from the State using its resources be sherrif, judge and executioner.
vooke, you come out as an intelligent man. So ignore the fact that Omollo is against EJK because he sure wants to let criminals overthrow GoK and get Raila in place. Because you know none of the victims of EJK could over throw a rat government.
Instead delve deep and read about EJK. See how it starts matures and ends. Does it remain a state monopoly for long? How does it eventually affect the state? How many states have survived a full blow "liberalized" EJK regime (when the state monopoly ends).
Note another factor incase you reach civil war: How long does the so called "National Army" last as a preponderant entity?
My opposition is based on a very simple logic: My life so far has been spent bandaging nations that chose that path and found it has just one final unsavoury destination.
I guarantee you if you do some research, you will see EJK in a completely different light.
Put differently, when street boys became a "problem" to traders in the 90s, did they not hire killer policemen to eliminate them?
Once the street boys realized they are in danger did they not kill some Indian traders who paid the police to kill them?
-
Omorlo, relax, am not the devil out to trap you. Am simply saying if this negro dispatched Rayirla's firstborn,he needs it served back at him with the bonus of denying his family the body.
I see EJK as a necessary evil. Cops have guns, we have corrupt judges,let them put the negroes out of their misery. This is not the ideal but for Kenia, I have no problem with it.
-
I think I dwelt on the conceptual differences.
EJK is a form of murder only it is executed by a state or organization systematically. If a private citizen carries out systematic killings for whatever reason, he becomes a Serial Killer. If Raila were to take out a contract on Kobia and Sonko, it becomes just pure murder.
EJK is another ball game bro. It is largely political.
Omorlo, relax, am not the devil out to trap you. Am simply saying if this negro dispatched Rayirla's firstborn,he needs it served back at him with the bonus of denying his family the body.
I see EJK as a necessary evil. Cops have guns, we have corrupt judges,let them put the negroes out of their misery. This is not the ideal but for Kenia, I have no problem with it.