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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Githunguri on March 15, 2023, 09:46:26 AM

Title: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Githunguri on March 15, 2023, 09:46:26 AM
I don't understand how people manage to live on foreign countries for years.Ive tried several and I don't like it.Life in kenya is simple and sweet.No matter how much you get paid in a foreign country,there is always an emptiness inside.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 15, 2023, 12:02:53 PM
That I agree 100 percent.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Kadudu on March 15, 2023, 01:46:37 PM
Through personal experience I can only second.

That I agree 100 percent.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Fairandbalanced on March 15, 2023, 03:35:52 PM
I can never imagine living anywhere else other than the USA. I am never lonely, I stay busy, make money, travel a lot and have tonnes of friends with different interests from all walks of life. I am completely assimilated into the American culture and I love it. I talk to Kenyans all the times, it’s pathetic that most of them want to be around their people who they share language and culture, it’s the inability to expand their horizons. If they make a little money, they want to be in Kenya to floss around hungry villagers, they want and crave the admiration and worship. If you live in the west, you are not going to be in the bar wasting your life away, you find other ways to entertain yourself, dinner parties, broadway shows etc most Kenyans cannot tell you what a broadway show is, it’s intellectual laziness. I go to Kenyan parties and this is the main complaint, man want to be in Kenya where some mpango wa kando will be worshiping them. There are lots of mpangos here in the USA, it just takes a little bit more work. I am about to travel to Kenya in June, I love being there and obviously being around my family and old friend, it’s the constant worry of thuggery, accidents, cops and most of all, do not fall sick in Kenya. I love listening to radio here in the USA, it’s pure entertainment especially when I am in the gym. I tried listening to radio in Kenya I almost there myself out of the window, the most boring shit I have ever heard in my life, zero entertainment. The entertainment industry in Kenya is dead or stupid. If you can get bored or lonely in a country like USA, it maybe you and not the country.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Nowayhaha on March 15, 2023, 03:56:41 PM

you have a point , lots of things and activities to do in comparison yo kenya where politics and drinking beer is the hobby and entertainment .
after work or during off one would attend Ice hockey,basketball, football , Opera , concerts , Ballet etc etc.
In Kenya the traffic kills the day before you move from one place to the other half day has already gone .


I can never imagine living anywhere else other than the USA. I am never lonely, I stay busy, make money, travel a lot and have tonnes of friends with different interests from all walks of life. I am completely assimilated into the American culture and I love it. I talk to Kenyans all the times, it’s pathetic that most of them want to be around their people who they share language and culture, it’s the inability to expand their horizons. If they make a little money, they want to be in Kenya to floss around hungry villagers, they want and crave the admiration and worship. If you live in the west, you are not going to be in the bar wasting your life away, you find other ways to entertain yourself, dinner parties, broadway shows etc most Kenyans cannot tell you what a broadway show is, it’s intellectual laziness. I go to Kenyan parties and this is the main complaint, man want to be in Kenya where some mpango wa kando will be worshiping them. There are lots of mpangos here in the USA, it just takes a little bit more work. I am about to travel to Kenya in June, I love being there and obviously being around my family and old friend, it’s the constant worry of thuggery, accidents, cops and most of all, do not fall sick in Kenya. I love listening to radio here in the USA, it’s pure entertainment especially when I am in the gym. I tried listening to radio in Kenya I almost there myself out of the window, the most boring shit I have ever heard in my life, zero entertainment. The entertainment industry in Kenya is dead or stupid. If you can get bored or lonely in a country like USA, it maybe you and not the country.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: sema on March 15, 2023, 04:41:45 PM
If I lived in Kenya, I'd become brain dead. They only thing they do is drink and gossip 24/7.  I've seen mzungu's in kenya doing other things (white water rafting, camping, going to the mara, etc) and I suppose if you had the money there, you could do that, but you'd either have to do it alone with your family or if you were single, with other kenyans that could afford it, but it would be the same places over and over again (watamu, diani, mara, naivasha rinse/repeat)

The country is just too small and too backward for me intellectually.

The longer you live in the west, the harder it is to move back to a poor third world country like Kenya and so many I know that moved back basically turned into alcoholics (after a few years of living in kenya e.g 5 or more years, they become unrecognizable - the drinking, the smoking, they become angry & snappy, rude (no please no thank you yelling at waitresses.. they become rough.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 15, 2023, 07:00:34 PM
Most kenyans like me spend almost half of our lives doing all those outdoor stuff as kids in rural areas.

Kenyans do not need see the need to do it anymore. In fact it childish to me.

Most of kenyans are rural folks - now diaspora guy born in Limuru - start climbing trees and forests is nut case.

I can understand the urban kenyans who missed all the funs we had growing back wanting to go

Kenya what I miss the most is SOCIAL CAPITAL - bars/friendly people/climate/ - and yet you generally get reliable water and electricity.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: lelewela on March 15, 2023, 07:19:42 PM
I agree on with you on the Politics  thing, I am not sure why even the poorest is discussing politics if not national it is local.
We should have some kind of a law that after election no more discussions about politics until 6 months to election .
I sometime get tired listening to too much politics in the pubs


you have a point , lots of things and activities to do in comparison yo kenya where politics and drinking beer is the hobby and entertainment .
after work or during off one would attend Ice hockey,basketball, football , Opera , concerts , Ballet etc etc.
In Kenya the traffic kills the day before you move from one place to the other half day has already gone .


I can never imagine living anywhere else other than the USA. I am never lonely, I stay busy, make money, travel a lot and have tonnes of friends with different interests from all walks of life. I am completely assimilated into the American culture and I love it. I talk to Kenyans all the times, it’s pathetic that most of them want to be around their people who they share language and culture, it’s the inability to expand their horizons. If they make a little money, they want to be in Kenya to floss around hungry villagers, they want and crave the admiration and worship. If you live in the west, you are not going to be in the bar wasting your life away, you find other ways to entertain yourself, dinner parties, broadway shows etc most Kenyans cannot tell you what a broadway show is, it’s intellectual laziness. I go to Kenyan parties and this is the main complaint, man want to be in Kenya where some mpango wa kando will be worshiping them. There are lots of mpangos here in the USA, it just takes a little bit more work. I am about to travel to Kenya in June, I love being there and obviously being around my family and old friend, it’s the constant worry of thuggery, accidents, cops and most of all, do not fall sick in Kenya. I love listening to radio here in the USA, it’s pure entertainment especially when I am in the gym. I tried listening to radio in Kenya I almost there myself out of the window, the most boring shit I have ever heard in my life, zero entertainment. The entertainment industry in Kenya is dead or stupid. If you can get bored or lonely in a country like USA, it maybe you and not the country.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on March 16, 2023, 01:38:53 AM
Maybe foreign countries, except USA. Here there are gazillion things to do from morning to evening, especially if you have a nuclear family. Road trips from Anywhere to Mojave desert, grand Canyon and beyond, and engaging country folks in small town USA is my thing. I think for someone like me who don't drink, not hyper religious, and integrity-driven, Kenya seem a very lonely place. Kenya is extreme religion, alcohol and hard drugs abuse, fornication, loud music, conmanship, and immense incompetence. When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: lelewela on March 16, 2023, 10:04:59 AM
"When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya."

Amen, you said it all !!!

Maybe foreign countries, except USA. Here there are gazillion things to do from morning to evening, especially if you have a nuclear family. Road trips from Anywhere to Mojave desert, grand Canyon and beyond, and engaging country folks in small town USA is my thing. I think for someone like me who don't drink, not hyper religious, and integrity-driven, Kenya seem a very lonely place. Kenya is extreme religion, alcohol and hard drugs abuse, fornication, loud music, conmanship, and immense incompetence. When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 16, 2023, 10:11:59 AM
You can probably survive - most of it - save for traffic cops kind of situations.
Just need to avoid dealing with mwafrika or the gov.
You can work in non-profit/ngo sector/international organisation.
There are few mzungu circles you can nicely insert yourselves
"When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya."

Amen, you said it all !!!
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: sema on March 16, 2023, 04:18:02 PM
Quote
Kenya is extreme religion, alcohol and hard drugs abuse, fornication, loud music, conmanship, and immense incompetence. When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya.

The only time I agreed with that lunatic andrew kibe is when he said that kenya is a highly sexualized society because they produce nothing, manufacture nothing and make nothing so the only thing to talk about is sex (which is what Kibe and 99% of the so called youtube vloggers talk about -- sex for men & dating and relationships for women who are looking for these supreme husbands amongst a stream of drunkards and fornicators (the men are just looking for sex).

If you are a young person with a high IQ in kenya, especially if you have a knack for math or science, you have to leave, otherwise you will become brain dead (with the exception of a very few %, it remains a poor, backward, medieval society) and this is my problem with most kenyans (I cannot intellectually engage them outside of discussions on religion or sex)
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: lelewela on March 17, 2023, 11:32:41 AM
All the  E material and immoral "backbenchers"  in High school are the ones leading Kenya, their fort was not maths/sciences , it was sex ,sex,sex,drugs etc. So the whole nation has been programmed to see evil as path to success, basically you have to be immoral to achieve success sic. political office and the younger generation see that evil pays, the idiot who never bothered about decency are the ones "succeeding" in poverty riden , disorganized , highly sexualized Kenya. Your wife is not safe from the politician or the corrupt police boss , daughter from her teacher. Mungu help Kenya

Quote
Kenya is extreme religion, alcohol and hard drugs abuse, fornication, loud music, conmanship, and immense incompetence. When you are straight person driven by ethics and unbridled honesty, you cannot survive in Kenya.

The only time I agreed with that lunatic andrew kibe is when he said that kenya is a highly sexualized society because they produce nothing, manufacture nothing and make nothing so the only thing to talk about is sex (which is what Kibe and 99% of the so called youtube vloggers talk about -- sex for men & dating and relationships for women who are looking for these supreme husbands amongst a stream of drunkards and fornicators (the men are just looking for sex).

If you are a young person with a high IQ in kenya, especially if you have a knack for math or science, you have to leave, otherwise you will become brain dead (with the exception of a very few %, it remains a poor, backward, medieval society) and this is my problem with most kenyans (I cannot intellectually engage them outside of discussions on religion or sex)
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: sema on March 17, 2023, 03:20:53 PM
So, pundit is saying that the only way to survive in Kenya if you are honest is to work with or for mzungu’s? This means there’s very little hope for that place
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: gout on March 17, 2023, 09:38:39 PM
Ouch. This for a person who follows Kibe day and night??

The US Adderall usage just shows how life is pathetic. Kids to adults. Holy cow. These are the brain dead!

If I lived in Kenya, I'd become brain dead. They only thing they do is drink and gossip 24/7.  I've seen mzungu's in kenya doing other things (white water rafting, camping, going to the mara, etc) and I suppose if you had the money there, you could do that, but you'd either have to do it alone with your family or if you were single, with other kenyans that could afford it, but it would be the same places over and over again (watamu, diani, mara, naivasha rinse/repeat)

The country is just too small and too backward for me intellectually.

The longer you live in the west, the harder it is to move back to a poor third world country like Kenya and so many I know that moved back basically turned into alcoholics (after a few years of living in kenya e.g 5 or more years, they become unrecognizable - the drinking, the smoking, they become angry & snappy, rude (no please no thank you yelling at waitresses.. they become rough.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: . on March 18, 2023, 08:25:56 AM
1. Lived in Tattered States of America for 20 years+. As a teen in Kwiinya, was attracted to TSA by useless things like money, Hollywood, images of young people partying (Freaknik, MTV Spring break, BET, music videos) & college (Uni) life that was glamourised in the media we used to watch back home.  Of course as a teenager who knows little to nothing about life, such things will impress you. I wanted to leave Kwiinya post-haste.

2. When I arrived at TSA the culture shock, loneliness - even when surrounded by hundreds of Americans -  and anomie of TSA culture was the worstest ever. In fact Americans have no culture at all.  I attended campo parties, house parties, clubbed at clubs I had seen in the movies, dated drop-dead-pretty American women, took long road trips across the country during Spring break yet was still very empty. Who was that who once said, "When you get there, there IS no there."

3. Ten years in after grad school, getting papers and seeing most of the country including its (beautiful) Islands . I was even emptier than when I had arrived.
America is a weird place. It has been historically rich yet extremely poor in terms of social capital as Pundito brilliantly puts it. And the longer you live there the more you start getting weird yourself, developing a sort of tunnel vision that makes you think non-entities like Andrew Kibe are worth discussing, Or that the vodka-sodden-whores in the clubs you visit on your annual two week vacation are the yardstick by which all things Kwiinya are measured . Add thinking that the politicians (and their theatrics) + news bytes you obsess about from reading nation.africa on your Dell laptop from your comfy bedroom in TSA is all there is to Kwiinya.

4. In TSA you can go 15 years without knowing your neighbor's name yet you see them from your driveway every morning. Very normal.

5. In TSA the mzungus and the bleks for the most part live apart from each other. Most Kwiinyans in Kwiinya will be surprised to hear this. Overt racism is common. Subtle racism is a pervasive fact of life for every minority. I will never forget this Nigerian PHD young professor teaching at a local uni in my city that I met at an African party I attended during my freshman (first) year there. At that time he was about 30 years old or so and we considered him a mentor of sorts. He was toting on a fat blunt in the dining room where some of us were all sitting, as the music blared ,and fellow Africans were dancing in the sitting room. I even remember the song that was playing. Between the thick smoke from his blunt he said, with a far-away look in his eye; "do not trust these white people, my brodas." I was surprised to hear this, given all his friends, students and neighbours were beberus whom he seemed to get along with very well. He was one of the very few bleks in that Uni. Why not trust them? I asked him. He continued;  "One day I was partying with my white professor colleagues I had worked with for many years,. We were all getting really hammered at a bar. When they were in good enough spirits to be honest, one of them took a long looks at me and blurted out that I look like a DONKEY. The rest of them burst into uncontrollable laughter for the next full minute." Very normal in TSA. Fake "friends" -msungus especially -who hate you with an unquenched passion chini ya maji as they smile in your face.

6. In TSA friendship is upepo. Ask those yapping ati TSA is heaven how many REAL American friends they have. That is, a friend you can trust with the keys to your house or who is guaranteed to come to hosi when you are sick. If they have more than 2 or 3 of those they are outliers.

7. Hamellicanos themselves do not like each other :roll:,  and Black Americans  are the worst. Not only do they hate each other passionately, but they also hate immigrant bleks times infinity. Again, ask those bragging that Hamellica is heaven how many real African American friends they have. Beyond zero would be a miracle.

Contrast with Kwiinya

8 In Kwiinya social ties run super deep. Real friends are a dime a dozen. Family ad nauseum until you want to run away from some of them who just want to spend time with you and talk and bond without ulterior motives. Many Hamellicano Kenyans will never understand this.

9. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, you are not rat-racing like a TSA'er who only gets one week off vacation per year. Did you know that for 50% of TSA'ers, even that holiday week they choose to work? And woe betide you if you are part of the Hamellicano immigrant underclass (no uni education or no papers.) Some of those singing paeans of praise about TSA are illegal immigrants who have not been home in 30 years. They are stuck in dead end fast food job shifts, driving battered cars, living in crummy neighbourhoods and soaking their woes with gallons upon gallons of Coors, Old English, Schiltz and allied liquids to drown their miseries. In Kwiinya by the way, it does not cost much to be middle class, by TSA standards. GDP PPP is incredible here compared to TSA.

10. In Kwiinya there is no stress nor rushing fweeeeeh from place to place 24/7 as happens in TSA. Ask the braggers if they have smelt the roses in that country for all the years they have been there. Most have not even visited more than 10 of the 50 states in the union despite being there for dog years.  Why? They are too busy to smell the roses. Too busy to even bond with their own families properly.  Also it costs money which many do not have because the cost of living there is crazy. Everybody is working all the time to the point that when they attend a Broadway Show in NYC  once in six months or visit the Grand Canyon or the MET, it becomes a big deal worth harping about, especially to the overwhelming majority of fellow Kwinyans in Hamellica who will never do any of those in their lifetime, rest assured.

11. In Kwiinya the environment is too beautiful to be compared to any place on earth. The beauty of the Rift Valley Lake system - a world wonder. Our pristine Coast line all the way down to Wasini and Funzi.  Central Island National Park in my home squared (Lokichokio :D). And of course the staples that the whole Western world comes to see; The Mara plains and so on. I visited Sokoke Arabuko National Park a few years ago and saw things I have never seen anywhere else in the world. If you love nature, Kwiinya is almost impossible to beat. Wakina Yosemite- which is also nice - do not even come close.

12. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, tis easy to get ahead if you even have half a brain when it comes to investments. Labour is dirt cheap. So are materials. So is land. If you sell a typical middle class mansion in TSA and buy land in Kwiinya, you are talking tens of acres mashinani upon which you can create your own kingdom with fawning servants attending to your every beck and call to boot. I love seeing young Kwiinyans sharing how their mjengos are going on social media. Tena BILA LOANS. Ask TSA kwiinyans how much debt they have. Most will not tell you the truth.; that the banks, mortgage and credit card companies own them to their chupi!

13. In Kwiinya you can basically live an upper class life with TSA middle class money. If you have REAL TSA money, you can basically live like a small god hapa.

14. And finally the best thing I like about Kwiinya is not only our deep cultural roots but our shared values (for the most part) compared to Hamellicanos. In Kwiinya a weddo is a vastly elaborate process involving very many people from both families. It involves ruracios/introduction ceremonies, bride price negotiations, sweet talking the bride's people and so on. On the actually day, hundreds attend. Some from very far away. After the weddo there are other ceremonies to be fulfilled. Any wonder why majority of Kwiinyans stay married for decades?  A strong family is critical to raising well adjusted kids. When you go through such a process divorce is more or less not an option. In TSA you both run to your local county office and within ten minutes you are married. Any wonder why TSA -- black TSA especially --- is majority divorced or single mamas with baby daddies? Relationships and marriages hardly last there.  Imagine how the kids of such an environment turn out. On shared values, no matter how much Kenyans make a hullabaloo about politricks, we share so much more in common that it is unbelievable. If I drove to Bubisa (north of Marsabit) today and lodged there, I am sure I would have no problems walking the streets hapo and talking to the locals as if they were old friends. A Kenyan anywhere will find it very easy to have a long conversation and make new friends with a Kenyan anywhere hapa. Ask Kenyan-Hamellicanos if they can go to the middle of Utah or to Redneck Texas (Yikes!) or even to Times Square NYC if they can do the same. They will probably be shot at or given weird stares. Especially if they have a non-American accent.

In the final analysis Kwiinya is HOME and there is no place like it. You can harp about corruption till the cows come home, but the truth is TSA is ground zero for global corruption.There the stealing is sophisticated and highly sanitized  (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2019/01/09/holding-u-s-treasuries-beware-uncle-sam-cant-account-for-21-trillion/).

When I think back to the 20 years+ I spent in TSA I just SMH in amusement. I should have come back after year ten.
Hamellica is nice when you are young and dumb and excited. After age 30 it becomes passé. Serious Kwiinyans hambroad, come back in your own timing.

Ni hayo tu.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Nowayhaha on March 18, 2023, 09:58:54 AM
People who become successful in U.S. always sing praises , people who become unsuccessful always blast U.S.
Having said that people in U.S. and the world have been brainwashed to think U.S. is paradise .
When you watch movies and clips then land in Hollywood and Miami Ocean you are always astonished , two different contrast .
Now some people have assimilated well and enjoy US lifestyle some have not and others have taken Ulevi Pundits lifestyle of drinking 4 beers everyday , alcohol is very cheap that within no time one gets hooked and become useless.
There are those who work and invest in Kenya once they retire they live like kings in Kenya and even become sponsors of political kingpins.
It all depends with your vision hardwork lack of it and big part of it Luck .
Kenyans in U.S have something they call Ukenya backbiting and wishing ill of others . This has led to Kenyans avoiding each others .
Furthermore the kenyan generation born in U.S. suffer from identity crisis , they want to fit it U.S. but they are not accommodated and some decipher their Kenyan roots . Where as their parents would help migrate relatives these ones hate that notion and to some aspect hate visiting Kenya.
Kenyan immigrant society has matured and we are starting to see the charectaristics of it form Domestic Violence , murder and many of them landing in jail or becoming homeless , something you would never hear off 30 years ago.
One thingbi have learnt in this world  , every where you go its the same thing . Happiness and satisfaction come from within and most importantly from your good relations with closest ones.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 18, 2023, 10:26:45 AM
Well written as always Odlun,
No 15 - Kenya weather is simply to die for. Most of these other countries - it either too cold (winters) or too hot (summers).
There is a reason no african lived in those countries anyway before forced slavery.

Our bodies are at home in Africa - at peace in Africa - and have adapted over thousands of years to live in Africa.

1. Lived in Tattered States of America for 20 years+. As a teen in Kwiinya, was attracted to TSA by useless things like money, Hollywood, images of young people partying (Freaknik, MTV Spring break, BET, music videos) & college (Uni) life that was glamourised in the media we used to watch back home.  Of course as a teenager who knows little to nothing about life, such things will impress you. I wanted to leave Kwiinya post-haste.

2. When I arrived at TSA the culture shock, loneliness - even when surrounded by hundreds of Americans -  and anomie of TSA culture was the worstest ever. In fact Americans have no culture at all.  I attended campo parties, house parties, clubbed at clubs I had seen in the movies, dated drop-dead-pretty American women, took long road trips across the country during Spring break yet was still very empty. Who was that who once said, "When you get there, there IS no there."

3. Ten years in after grad school, getting papers and seeing most of the country including its (beautiful) Islands . I was even emptier than when I had arrived.
America is a weird place. It has been historically rich yet extremely poor in terms of social capital as Pundito brilliantly puts it. And the longer you live there the more you start getting weird yourself, developing a sort of tunnel vision that makes you think non-entities like Andrew Kibe are worth discussing, Or that the vodka-sodden-whores in the clubs you visit on your annual two week vacation are the yardstick by which all things Kwiinya are measured . Add thinking that the politicians (and their theatrics) + news bytes you obsess about from reading nation.africa on your Dell laptop from your comfy bedroom in TSA is all there is to Kwiinya.

4. In TSA you can go 15 years without knowing your neighbor's name yet you see them from your driveway every morning. Very normal.

5. In TSA the mzungus and the bleks for the most part live apart from each other. Most Kwiinyans in Kwiinya will be surprised to hear this. Overt racism is common. Subtle racism is a pervasive fact of life for every minority. I will never forget this Nigerian PHD young professor teaching at a local uni in my city that I met at an African party I attended during my freshman (first) year there. At that time he was about 30 years old or so and we considered him a mentor of sorts. He was toting on a fat blunt in the dining room where some of us were all sitting, as the music blared ,and fellow Africans were dancing in the sitting room. I even remember the song that was playing. Between the thick smoke from his blunt he said, with a far-away look in his eye; "do not trust these white people, my brodas." I was surprised to hear this, given all his friends, students and neighbours were beberus whom he seemed to get along with very well. He was one of the very few bleks in that Uni. Why not trust them? I asked him. He continued;  "One day I was partying with my white professor colleagues I had worked with for many years,. We were all getting really hammered at a bar. When they were in good enough spirits to be honest, one of them took a long looks at me and blurted out that I look like a DONKEY. The rest of them burst into uncontrollable laughter for the next full minute." Very normal in TSA. Fake "friends" -msungus especially -who hate you with an unquenched passion chini ya maji as they smile in your face.

6. In TSA friendship is upepo. Ask those yapping ati TSA is heaven how many REAL American friends they have. That is, a friend you can trust with the keys to your house or who is guaranteed to come to hosi when you are sick. If they have more than 2 or 3 of those they are outliers.

7. Hamellicanos themselves do not like each other :roll:,  and Black Americans  are the worst. Not only do they hate each other passionately, but they also hate immigrant bleks times infinity. Again, ask those bragging that Hamellica is heaven how many real African American friends they have. Beyond zero would be a miracle.

Contrast with Kwiinya

8 In Kwiinya social ties run super deep. Real friends are a dime a dozen. Family ad nauseum until you want to run away from some of them who just want to spend time with you and talk and bond without ulterior motives. Many Hamellicano Kenyans will never understand this.

9. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, you are not rat-racing like a TSA'er who only gets one week off vacation per year. Did you know that for 50% of TSA'ers, even that holiday week they choose to work? And woe betide you if you are part of the Hamellicano immigrant underclass (no uni education or no papers.) Some of those singing paeans of praise about TSA are illegal immigrants who have not been home in 30 years. They are stuck in dead end fast food job shifts, driving battered cars, living in crummy neighbourhoods and soaking their woes with gallons upon gallons of Coors, Old English, Schiltz and allied liquids to drown their miseries. In Kwiinya by the way, it does not cost much to be middle class, by TSA standards. GDP PPP is incredible here compared to TSA.

10. In Kwiinya there is no stress nor rushing fweeeeeh from place to place 24/7 as happens in TSA. Ask the braggers if they have smelt the roses in that country for all the years they have been there. Most have not even visited more than 10 of the 50 states in the union despite being there for dog years.  Why? They are too busy to smell the roses. Too busy to even bond with their own families properly.  Also it costs money which many do not have because the cost of living there is crazy. Everybody is working all the time to the point that when they attend a Broadway Show in NYC  once in six months or visit the Grand Canyon or the MET, it becomes a big deal worth harping about, especially to the overwhelming majority of fellow Kwinyans in Hamellica who will never do any of those in their lifetime, rest assured.

11. In Kwiinya the environment is too beautiful to be compared to any place on earth. The beauty of the Rift Valley Lake system - a world wonder. Our pristine Coast line all the way down to Wasini and Funzi.  Central Island National Park in my home squared (Lokichokio :D). And of course the staples that the whole Western world comes to see; The Mara plains and so on. I visited Sokoke Arabuko National Park a few years ago and saw things I have never seen anywhere else in the world. If you love nature, Kwiinya is almost impossible to beat. Wakina Yosemite- which is also nice - do not even come close.

12. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, tis easy to get ahead if you even have half a brain when it comes to investments. Labour is dirt cheap. So are materials. So is land. If you sell a typical middle class mansion in TSA and buy land in Kwiinya, you are talking tens of acres mashinani upon which you can create your own kingdom with fawning servants attending to your every beck and call to boot. I love seeing young Kwiinyans sharing how their mjengos are going on social media. Tena BILA LOANS. Ask TSA kwiinyans how much debt they have. Most will not tell you the truth.; that the banks, mortgage and credit card companies own them to their chupi!

13. In Kwiinya you can basically live an upper class life with TSA middle class money. If you have REAL TSA money, you can basically live like a small god hapa.

14. And finally the best thing I like about Kwiinya is not only our deep cultural roots but our shared values (for the most part) compared to Hamellicanos. In Kwiinya a weddo is a vastly elaborate process involving very many people from both families. It involves ruracios/introduction ceremonies, bride price negotiations, sweet talking the bride's people and so on. On the actually day, hundreds attend. Some from very far away. After the weddo there are other ceremonies to be fulfilled. Any wonder why majority of Kwiinyans stay married for decades?  A strong family is critical to raising well adjusted kids. When you go through such a process divorce is more or less not an option. In TSA you both run to your local county office and within ten minutes you are married. Any wonder why TSA -- black TSA especially --- is majority divorced or single mamas with baby daddies? Relationships and marriages hardly last there.  Imagine how the kids of such an environment turn out. On shared values, no matter how much Kenyans make a hullabaloo about politricks, we share so much more in common that it is unbelievable. If I drove to Bubisa (north of Marsabit) today and lodged there, I am sure I would have no problems walking the streets hapo and talking to the locals as if they were old friends. A Kenyan anywhere will find it very easy to have a long conversation and make new friends with a Kenyan anywhere hapa. Ask Kenyan-Hamellicanos if they can go to the middle of Utah or to Redneck Texas (Yikes!) or even to Times Square NYC if they can do the same. They will probably be shot at or given weird stares. Especially if they have a non-American accent.

In the final analysis Kwiinya is HOME and there is no place like it. You can harp about corruption till the cows come home, but the truth is TSA is ground zero for global corruption.There the stealing is sophisticated and highly sanitized  (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2019/01/09/holding-u-s-treasuries-beware-uncle-sam-cant-account-for-21-trillion/).

When I think back to the 20 years+ I spent in TSA I just SMH in amusement. I should have come back after year ten.
Hamellica is nice when you are young and dumb and excited. After age 30 it becomes passé. Serious Kwiinyans hambroad, come back in your own timing.

Ni hayo tu.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 18, 2023, 10:37:22 AM
Why do people go to US or Europe - they go to look for economic opportunities;
They leave their friends, families, culture, food, memories in Kenya - to seek for money.
I believe an economic immigrant - first business when he get to US - is to find ways of coming back richer.
To invest back home - until you've eliminated that income gap that made you run away.
Some people will wait until they nail their retirement.
Some people having earned enough dollars - will realize they can lead comfortable life in kenya without much money.
In companies I have worked with in Kenya - you need half the US/EU salary to lead similar or better lifestyle.
So you dont need wait until you're retired to retire - you can do it half the time.
You can retire at 45yrs - if you save and invest - and return back while you can.
The more you stay - the harder to come - as kids get into equation - and they cut links with mother africa.
Once you're ready comeback to africa - alive - or they will fundraise for your corpse.

My advice for diaspora folks - work for x years abroad - bring the investment to kenya and try reconnect earlier & lead a happy fulfilling life - if it doesn't work - you have citizenship - you can always run back and get a job.

The longer you stay abroad - the harder to reconnect - the longer the unhappiness and emptiness.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Fairandbalanced on March 18, 2023, 03:15:29 PM
I think it also depends on your personality, speaking for myself, I do not need to have a million friend or be socializing constantly to feel good about myself. I am kind of a “loner” who enjoys time to myself and solitude. This is my personality, when I was in Kenya or when I am there visiting, I hate people popping in and out all the times sometimes unannounced. I love spending time with my wife alone doing things we love. We get invited to dinners or parties and sometimes these are a pain. I find it very difficult to talk to some people especially those whose masomo ended at the end of schooling and this is what most Kenyans are, they will talk about Ruto all day but if you ask them who Neil deGrasse Tyson is, they give you a blank stare. I am very friendly to neighbors who are mostly white and Democrat but we do not have to hang out all the times. I attend events like graduations and they do mine but that’s the extent of our interaction. The people you guys are talking about who are here chasing life, living paycheck to paycheck and too busy to enjoy life are either newly arrived or not Kenyans. The Kenyans I know, at least those who live in my city, drive beautiful cars, have nice houses etc in fact African immigrants are on average more wealthier than other immigrant groups or even average Americans. The extremely wealthy class knows that with that kind of money, the only pace to be is either Europe or USA, some of the thieves in Kenya would probably like to live in Beverly Hills but they are afraid of the government here. This is actually a very subjective topic, enjoy yourself wherever you are, life is short.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on March 19, 2023, 12:16:05 AM
1. Lived in Tattered States of America for 20 years+. As a teen in Kwiinya, was attracted to TSA by useless things like money, Hollywood, images of young people partying (Freaknik, MTV Spring break, BET, music videos) & college (Uni) life that was glamourised in the media we used to watch back home.  Of course as a teenager who knows little to nothing about life, such things will impress you. I wanted to leave Kwiinya post-haste.

2. When I arrived at TSA the culture shock, loneliness - even when surrounded by hundreds of Americans -  and anomie of TSA culture was the worstest ever. In fact Americans have no culture at all.  I attended campo parties, house parties, clubbed at clubs I had seen in the movies, dated drop-dead-pretty American women, took long road trips across the country during Spring break yet was still very empty. Who was that who once said, "When you get there, there IS no there."

3. Ten years in after grad school, getting papers and seeing most of the country including its (beautiful) Islands . I was even emptier than when I had arrived.
America is a weird place. It has been historically rich yet extremely poor in terms of social capital as Pundito brilliantly puts it. And the longer you live there the more you start getting weird yourself, developing a sort of tunnel vision that makes you think non-entities like Andrew Kibe are worth discussing, Or that the vodka-sodden-whores in the clubs you visit on your annual two week vacation are the yardstick by which all things Kwiinya are measured . Add thinking that the politicians (and their theatrics) + news bytes you obsess about from reading nation.africa on your Dell laptop from your comfy bedroom in TSA is all there is to Kwiinya.

4. In TSA you can go 15 years without knowing your neighbor's name yet you see them from your driveway every morning. Very normal.

5. In TSA the mzungus and the bleks for the most part live apart from each other. Most Kwiinyans in Kwiinya will be surprised to hear this. Overt racism is common. Subtle racism is a pervasive fact of life for every minority. I will never forget this Nigerian PHD young professor teaching at a local uni in my city that I met at an African party I attended during my freshman (first) year there. At that time he was about 30 years old or so and we considered him a mentor of sorts. He was toting on a fat blunt in the dining room where some of us were all sitting, as the music blared ,and fellow Africans were dancing in the sitting room. I even remember the song that was playing. Between the thick smoke from his blunt he said, with a far-away look in his eye; "do not trust these white people, my brodas." I was surprised to hear this, given all his friends, students and neighbours were beberus whom he seemed to get along with very well. He was one of the very few bleks in that Uni. Why not trust them? I asked him. He continued;  "One day I was partying with my white professor colleagues I had worked with for many years,. We were all getting really hammered at a bar. When they were in good enough spirits to be honest, one of them took a long looks at me and blurted out that I look like a DONKEY. The rest of them burst into uncontrollable laughter for the next full minute." Very normal in TSA. Fake "friends" -msungus especially -who hate you with an unquenched passion chini ya maji as they smile in your face.

6. In TSA friendship is upepo. Ask those yapping ati TSA is heaven how many REAL American friends they have. That is, a friend you can trust with the keys to your house or who is guaranteed to come to hosi when you are sick. If they have more than 2 or 3 of those they are outliers.

7. Hamellicanos themselves do not like each other :roll:,  and Black Americans  are the worst. Not only do they hate each other passionately, but they also hate immigrant bleks times infinity. Again, ask those bragging that Hamellica is heaven how many real African American friends they have. Beyond zero would be a miracle.

Contrast with Kwiinya

8 In Kwiinya social ties run super deep. Real friends are a dime a dozen. Family ad nauseum until you want to run away from some of them who just want to spend time with you and talk and bond without ulterior motives. Many Hamellicano Kenyans will never understand this.

9. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, you are not rat-racing like a TSA'er who only gets one week off vacation per year. Did you know that for 50% of TSA'ers, even that holiday week they choose to work? And woe betide you if you are part of the Hamellicano immigrant underclass (no uni education or no papers.) Some of those singing paeans of praise about TSA are illegal immigrants who have not been home in 30 years. They are stuck in dead end fast food job shifts, driving battered cars, living in crummy neighbourhoods and soaking their woes with gallons upon gallons of Coors, Old English, Schiltz and allied liquids to drown their miseries. In Kwiinya by the way, it does not cost much to be middle class, by TSA standards. GDP PPP is incredible here compared to TSA.

10. In Kwiinya there is no stress nor rushing fweeeeeh from place to place 24/7 as happens in TSA. Ask the braggers if they have smelt the roses in that country for all the years they have been there. Most have not even visited more than 10 of the 50 states in the union despite being there for dog years.  Why? They are too busy to smell the roses. Too busy to even bond with their own families properly.  Also it costs money which many do not have because the cost of living there is crazy. Everybody is working all the time to the point that when they attend a Broadway Show in NYC  once in six months or visit the Grand Canyon or the MET, it becomes a big deal worth harping about, especially to the overwhelming majority of fellow Kwinyans in Hamellica who will never do any of those in their lifetime, rest assured.

11. In Kwiinya the environment is too beautiful to be compared to any place on earth. The beauty of the Rift Valley Lake system - a world wonder. Our pristine Coast line all the way down to Wasini and Funzi.  Central Island National Park in my home squared (Lokichokio :D). And of course the staples that the whole Western world comes to see; The Mara plains and so on. I visited Sokoke Arabuko National Park a few years ago and saw things I have never seen anywhere else in the world. If you love nature, Kwiinya is almost impossible to beat. Wakina Yosemite- which is also nice - do not even come close.

12. In Kwiinya if you are middle class and above, tis easy to get ahead if you even have half a brain when it comes to investments. Labour is dirt cheap. So are materials. So is land. If you sell a typical middle class mansion in TSA and buy land in Kwiinya, you are talking tens of acres mashinani upon which you can create your own kingdom with fawning servants attending to your every beck and call to boot. I love seeing young Kwiinyans sharing how their mjengos are going on social media. Tena BILA LOANS. Ask TSA kwiinyans how much debt they have. Most will not tell you the truth.; that the banks, mortgage and credit card companies own them to their chupi!

13. In Kwiinya you can basically live an upper class life with TSA middle class money. If you have REAL TSA money, you can basically live like a small god hapa.

14. And finally the best thing I like about Kwiinya is not only our deep cultural roots but our shared values (for the most part) compared to Hamellicanos. In Kwiinya a weddo is a vastly elaborate process involving very many people from both families. It involves ruracios/introduction ceremonies, bride price negotiations, sweet talking the bride's people and so on. On the actually day, hundreds attend. Some from very far away. After the weddo there are other ceremonies to be fulfilled. Any wonder why majority of Kwiinyans stay married for decades?  A strong family is critical to raising well adjusted kids. When you go through such a process divorce is more or less not an option. In TSA you both run to your local county office and within ten minutes you are married. Any wonder why TSA -- black TSA especially --- is majority divorced or single mamas with baby daddies? Relationships and marriages hardly last there.  Imagine how the kids of such an environment turn out. On shared values, no matter how much Kenyans make a hullabaloo about politricks, we share so much more in common that it is unbelievable. If I drove to Bubisa (north of Marsabit) today and lodged there, I am sure I would have no problems walking the streets hapo and talking to the locals as if they were old friends. A Kenyan anywhere will find it very easy to have a long conversation and make new friends with a Kenyan anywhere hapa. Ask Kenyan-Hamellicanos if they can go to the middle of Utah or to Redneck Texas (Yikes!) or even to Times Square NYC if they can do the same. They will probably be shot at or given weird stares. Especially if they have a non-American accent.

In the final analysis Kwiinya is HOME and there is no place like it. You can harp about corruption till the cows come home, but the truth is TSA is ground zero for global corruption.There the stealing is sophisticated and highly sanitized  (https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2019/01/09/holding-u-s-treasuries-beware-uncle-sam-cant-account-for-21-trillion/).

When I think back to the 20 years+ I spent in TSA I just SMH in amusement. I should have come back after year ten.
Hamellica is nice when you are young and dumb and excited. After age 30 it becomes passé. Serious Kwiinyans hambroad, come back in your own timing.

Ni hayo tu.
That is someone who failed to hack it in USA, or was pushed out by the system to jail or deported. If you are into traditional family, wealth, security, and things that make someone happy, USA provides it all. Things you can do in Kenya can be done better in USA. The thing that make USA different and boring remains routine. No time for fun because most people are always busy working, doing business, or saving for retirement (securing the future).
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: . on March 19, 2023, 05:45:57 AM
I think it also depends on your personality, speaking for myself, I do not need to have a million friend or be socializing constantly to feel good about myself. I am kind of a “loner” who enjoys time to myself and solitude. This is my personality, when I was in Kenya or when I am there visiting, I hate people popping in and out all the times sometimes unannounced. I love spending time with my wife alone doing things we love. We get invited to dinners or parties and sometimes these are a pain. I find it very difficult to talk to some people especially those whose masomo ended at the end of schooling and this is what most Kenyans are, they will talk about Ruto all day but if you ask them who Neil deGrasse Tyson is, they give you a blank stare. I am very friendly to neighbors who are mostly white and Democrat but we do not have to hang out all the times. I attend events like graduations and they do mine but that’s the extent of our interaction. The people you guys are talking about who are here chasing life, living paycheck to paycheck and too busy to enjoy life are either newly arrived or not Kenyans. The Kenyans I know, at least those who live in my city, drive beautiful cars, have nice houses etc in fact African immigrants are on average more wealthier than other immigrant groups or even average Americans. The extremely wealthy class knows that with that kind of money, the only pace to be is either Europe or USA, some of the thieves in Kenya would probably like to live in Beverly Hills but they are afraid of the government here. This is actually a very subjective topic, enjoy yourself wherever you are, life is short.

TSA FORCES you to be a loner :D, which is not healthy and you know it.
Good social relationships are critical to happiness because God created us humans as an ultra-social species
http://ccare.stanford.edu/press_posts/good-social-relationships-are-the-most-consistent-predictor-of-a-happy-life/
To say "I don't need other people to be happy" is just to deceive oneself, my dear blathee. I did all those things you mention and more; house in the burbs surrounded by mlungu letaas(below) Invalid Tweet ID I drove those gleaming cars on those highways shwaaaaaaaaaaaa  (by the way I miss driving down I-10 down to Santa Monica nyweeee on weekends) but I was still empty after all that.

But I agree with you. Kila nyani na starehe zake. When I was you guys for 20+ years, I too was justifying why TSA is the best thing since sliced bread - at least for the first ten years :D

Ni hayo tyu

Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: . on March 19, 2023, 05:57:27 AM

That is someone who failed to hack it in USA, or was pushed out by the system to jail or deported. If you are into traditional family, wealth, security, and things that make someone happy, USA provides it all.

1. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha who told you wealth makes one happy? If it did, all the billionaires in the world would not have anti-depressants in their medicine cabinets (https://www.businessinsider.com/psychology-of-success-why-billionaires-get-depressed-2014-9?r=US&IR=T) and all those famous dollar-millionaire actors and actresses in Hellyweird would not be committing suicide and dying like flies daily (Think Don Cornelius (https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/02/don-cornelius-suicide-reveals-troubled-life-of-soul-train-founder) and hundreds more)
2. Your statement that if you are into traditional family and your other statement (below) that you have no time for fun because people are always busy, taken together, is a joint oxymoron of epic proportions. How can you spend true quality time with your family if you are always working (classic definition of the rat race  :D)? HAIWESEKANI KAPSAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Quote
Things you can do in Kenya can be done better in USA. The thing that make USA different and boring remains routine. No time for fun because most people are always busy working, doing business, or saving for retirement (securing the future).

1. WHICH things? :D
2. Some of us retired in 2003 :D If you are still saving and scraping, does that make you a roaring success?
3. I can come there even today if I wanted to and live another decade. In fact haguna ghitu you can tell me about TSA if you are sitll saving and scraping. Not bragging, just stating facts to counter your insinuation

Bottom line, USA is NOT HEALTHY for family, peace of mind and mental health. That's why - as Nowayhaha stated above -  Kwiinyans in TSA are now busy killing each other, going to jail, some homeless, always backbiting each other and soaking themselves in alcohol, not for enjoyment but to drown miseries hapo.

Isapite

The few who are honest with themselves know TSA life is a very unhappy life EVEN WITH PAPERS AND MOOLAH and are making plans to come home eventually.

Nimesema!


Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: RV Pundit on March 19, 2023, 11:43:15 AM
Maybe it can work if you're self-employed; and can sneak to kenya as much as you want; or at least not have to go through horrible winters; if you can do half the time in kenya; half the time abroad; that could work.
Title: Re: Life abroad is very lonely
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on March 19, 2023, 12:59:34 PM
Actually all of you are right no one is wrong its just a matter of perception and experience.
My own is indeed abroad can be lonely but not always it depends on what you make of it, Even Kenya can be lonely moving from one town to another example a waria moving from Garissa to baringo might find it very lonely and vice versa
Again Kenya indeed not too many activities people do after work is drinking beer on extreme end others wamenda kanisa, outdoor activities not much,
In short its a cultural thing, However Kenya has absolutely good weather I would rate it numero uno.